who are our brothers and sisters? who is our family? whom have we become course we have become those who once despised and killed. we have become the enemy. our mother is the mother grieving over murdered child, and we murdered this child in a mud walled village of afghanistan, a sand filled cemetery in fallujah or maria poll. our father is a father lying on a pallet in a hat, paralyzed by the blast from an iron fragmentation bomb. our sister lives in poverty in a refugee camp outside kabul, widowed, desperately poor, raising her children alone. our brother, yes our brother is the taliban, and the iraqi

insurgent, and al-qaeda, and the russian soldiers. and he has an automatic rifle, and he kills and he is becoming us. war is always the same plague. it imparts the same deadly virus. it teaches us to deny and others humanity, worth, being and to kill them because. >> watch the fullrogram anytime at booktv.org. just search chris hedges or the title of this his book, "tt evil is war." >> now about our featured attraction, walter isaacson. i would be surprised if you haven't already seen him on tv in the past few days, or read a bit about his new book, because, well, he's been everywhere. and for good reason. the release of another biography by walter isaacson has become an event in itself.

he staked out a well-earned reputation as the preeminent biographer of geniuses, and what he's writing about brilliant people from long ago like leonardo da vinci, benjamin franklin and albert einstein, a more contemporary innovativey, figures of our age, like steve jobs, or henry kissinger, you can bet the result will be a fascinating, revealing comprehensive and vividly told book. walters take on elon musk is certainly all that. and the story turned out to be even more than walter oregon for when he set out a couple of years ago to do the biography. back then walter thought he would be writing mainly about mosque as a technological trailblazer, a leader in the

fields of electric vehicles and private space exploration. then came his impulsive purchase of twitter and his central role in providing ukraine weremm satellitee communication links during the war with russia. and the questions and controversies about mosque only grew. all of whichnh is enhanced the timeliness and importance of walter's in-depth portrait of musk and of the demons that drive him. now, predictably, walter himself has come in for some criticism about what he decided to put in the book or leave out or the extent to which he refrains from judging musk. legitimate questions have been raised about both the risks and advantages of access journalism and about how far a biographer should go in offering personal opinions about the person that he's writing about.

.. shied away from addressing such matters. and i'm sure he he won't this evening. but i also know that if you read musk biography, which i if you read the biography which i encourage all of you to do if you haven't, you'll find a full account not only influential and consequential achievements but dark offensive side you can make your own judgment which is what walter intended. in conversation will be michael, senior editor at large washington post for nearly five years and before that he spent several like it took times magazine so please join me in welcoming walter isaacson and mike duffey.

[applause] >> michael came all the way from missoula. >> you welcome and thank you for coming. the new elon musk book. >> i'll get used to it. i read this book and i love it. i didn't know very much about elon musk when i started reading it and now i feel i know a great deal. it's hard to imagine going forward without reading it so talk to us about the arrangement with musk and how it happened and how you found out and

whether your relationship about writing to changed over the course. >> i always liked the edge of innovation. elon musk bring us in to electric vehicless bringing spae travel, i thought that is cool and we had a girlfriend and put us together on the phone and we talked about an hour and a half and they said i'd love to do this, based on interviews, i want to be biased and spend weeks on and down in texas near the launchpad offering aligns with the deadline, he can be with me all the time, nothing is off limits really and the other thing is no control over the book, other even know if he's read and he said fine.

i said okay, that's amazing. [laughter]r] i went back cassie visiting the main house and i said you're doing it just tweeted out it was like the middle of the conversation and said i guess i'm in for the ride. [laughter] >> that relationship stay the same -- >> he's never asked to see the book and never was, pressured anything and i thought i would be subject, the heisenberg by observing him it would change him but his material moods, inspirational things, they were all in full and never seemed to notice, just always by his side

and never have to spend or do anything and sometimes sit inre the room after meetings never be a break, 15, 20 minutes, half in silence and then talk in monotone telling me aboutch his childhood and other things. >> bibliographies written before, einstein, kinzinger, did any of them prepare you for this subject? >> somebody strong-willed, a reality distortion -- meaning he drove people to do things they were sure were impossible and he drove them crazy and they were eventually able toon do it and steve jobs taught by his group in india to stand without blinking to say don't be afraid,

you can do it so early on they werere trying to do the original apple and says i can't get it by the weekend got to get back to apple farm and theey company thy had. finally he just stared withoutdo blinking and said don't be afraid the got so freaked out for did it. over and over again even to the end a guy who runs last, jobs went into ati beautiful these of class and described it and said maybe you should do a formula and he said want this much by october and said there's no way, we've not started it and he just stared at me without blinking and said don't be afraid, you can do it. the reality, take elon musk went

up. just always pushing people and driving them crazy but i didn't think they could do.o. definitely has the stairir but material much more than steve jobs was and could be really cold and nasty and also giddy and money and inspiring but he would shootmo moods on a dime ad you could see it. i remember watching the launchpad when they were doing immovable object which was starship and a late friday night and a couple people were working on the pad and i see his face and you could see it come across his face and suddenly she calls

it demon mode and started to parade and saying where is everybody? we need dozens of people working 24 hours an day and he said its a friday night and he got so mad he said i want a third and the next day there was 200 people flying in from cape canaveral and los angeles and for a week they worked around the clock to stop the rocket even though they didn't need to but he wants insurgency. >> my next question is the statement. his father, yikes. >> when elon was young, he was funny, socially awkward and they got beat up all the time especially send them off to the wilderness camps and even though

'me up and punch them in the noe this is not like skid row. this is in south africa and pushing down and, his face and in the hospital for five days and his brother s says it didn't recognize him. when he gets home to stand in front of his father for an hour and a half and his father believed him and tells him he's stupid and we will amount to anything and takes the side of the kid who beat him up to those scars from childhood are dancing in his head so and goes silent on the subject of his father comes out and eventually says talking in monotone about the pain f.

>> has close relationship with who you mentioned. >> it's true and this is complex to talk about but one of the things that surprised me is because musk doesn't have the what you call incoming receptors for human emotions are not going, he calls himself as burgersch which is a dog name bt it makes him so he doesn't have a good one, very intense but the lack of receptors. although they fight for the bad

and talks to people about whether he is bipolar or all of this and he gives up his business and takes his money out of the bank to keep tesla afloat. then "afterwards" okay, i need money for my restaurant business andy started speaking again eventually helo helped. >> he only gave five of the 10 million, is that

right? >> i'm glad you read the book, i haven't read it yet. [laughter] >> so much easier interviewing someone. >> the first several hundred. >> he said i don't like to try to enjoy, i put my chips back on the table, the long island expressed and he says we went to the moon 50 years ago and now where are we going to go next? he looks on thehe website of na, there's no plan to go back to the moon and he's appalled. here said we are a nation of people who took risk h to get he whether they came on the

mayflower or across the rio grande river, these are people who are risk takers and we've lost the ability to take risks so decides he's going to do a mission to mars. for many reasons, one is this elevated reason for somebody and the bookstore which is if we are not a multi- planetary species eventually something will happen and the life of human consciousness will be lost we don't know if there's any other consciousness in thehe universe and i used too think that was e type of peptalk on the podcast or something and adventure, we have to have adventure left and there's nothing grander was able

to build, first he was going to try to buy in market from a funny couple of scenes how much is the material? we can get it 90% cheaper if we can do it this way and decides to build hiswn own rocket and ty startth eventually, three of thm but into orbit and every other country and every other company combined. >> so saving consciousness with the rationale behind spacex. the reason for tesla? >> he had three goals out of the corner of the bookstore which is not as well that as politics and prose and he would read the

section especially in college. one is making space civilization. to his sustainable energy, basically batteries, solar groups, power and electric vehicles. at this time in the early 20004 generalot motors, they want to t rid of it and he says no we got to do it and the third one we can get to he reads the series ande says we have to save artificial intelligence of the wastes it will turn up in these are not thehe things we worry about college and growing up in new orleans causing my palms despite. >> something of industrial engineering and it sounds dull.

usually engineers the rocket more significantly perhaps. >> we outsource it all over and can see what is done to our politics. the original was in japan the panels from france and anyways he said and 70% of the

intellectual property of car companies were outsourced and he's got it so it's a car must made in america. >> the emotional high of this engineering handbook is one of my favorite parts of the book comes when musk is up against it and he makes a promise wittingly or unwittingly to produce 5000 cars a week. how did he do it? enormous number of short-sellers in 2018 people against tesla stock and short-sellers had drones flying over the fauci telling what the simply wants to do and they had inside information.

figure out those two assembly lines could not do 5000 we can retake your and he's a military history and remembers in world war ii used to build letter jets the parking lot in southern californiaia so he looks at the parking lot and says within a week i want the ten, three tenths the side of this room and we are going to build a third assemblye. line. and put up a temporary tent to do auto repair. it's like a muscle shop. he said they can find us later.

put on also and they are able to hit 5000 cars a week and that's the most valuable are complete in the world. >> it wouldn't otherwise work. >> they move the cars down and it was when he lived on the fauci floor and it's called open loop warning which means you are getting feedback. you're like an unguided missile. they do open the morning will think is best nowiv but this is what tweets i'm looking in the 70s and give money all of

these things ongoing and it was his help your for him. >> i have to say had like 25. her details of recklessness go into the dark mode and remember when it came back and doctor jekyll, musk goes to personal changes and he talks about

notable personalities. you can call it disorder there will be times he's laughing like ntcrazy and getting silly walks and figuring out the robot so it's engineered the right way and then you will be inspirational for don't work all night they want to get to mars and he goes to mr. hyde and the darkness comes in. >> will never be a multi- planetary species if you don't, work all night. the guy he leaned out on the launchpad in south texas, lucas couldn't fight no cost of every component and from of them in a

one-of-a-kind, leaving goes to a gentler place and comes back and had a choice between being brownian order and was burned down the long. >> you can't read the book without concluding it wasno shad by science fiction novels also shaming. >> video gaming, is a total of things like that. he stated only -- does anybody know what else and bring his? quote. all the ring comes out and then he needs crimes and cougar and the middle of emotional turmoil

and stays up all night laying until 530. then right after that he sent out a message, i made an offer and that was when he announced would go hostile on twitter. the video games learned a lot including as kimball said empathy is not your friend. you and i don't believe that but it'smp like these can hurt you. >> some weird apology in the. >> one of the key lessons which i call front in my station which is you don't have to fight everybody at once. >> of course there's an end to that. even more, he said he was a fool for love, what do you mean? >> he associates love, his brother says and so does amber

heard, you remember the johnny depp trial, they went out for about a year end broke up in 2018 when his father was having a child the person he raised as a stepdaughter so it's emotional turmoil to break up with amber, his father following a child with somebody he thought was his stepsister and the production house but almost everybody he's married or gone out with is therefore the drama. his first wife, justine, they would fight go to bookstores, this was kepler and they got into a huge fight and i think amber said to me, he associates drama with love.

if things are calm -- the only home relationship he had was a wonderful person with riley whom he married twice but she was a calming influence and would say it would have been great becauss including grimes as a fun person, she can be dramatic. >> he sent a good job of populating this planet. [laughter] >> but everything is mission driven and that's wacky and then you think it's wacky and it's ernest. does he believe declining birthrate movie comes to human consciousness? how many of us wake up in the morning -- he truly -- this is why he feels he's always telling

his friends you got to have more children. he pays too much but friends and relatives and wants everybody to have children. >> talk to us about belongs shift -- obama supporter to a trump backer. is that mere convenience? >> the political shift in the past two years is obviously pretty shot. as i say, there will be times when he's talking in the afternoon say we need a party of the center,te more moderates. we should support independence in this country. he's pushing those buttons not too conservative but what you callpo the populace right viewpoint we see in europe and here. it starts about three years ago

first of all with covid and covid lockdowns and restrictions and he believes the lockdowns were too much so he pushed back him up. second, he got attacked by democrats from california, assemblywoman to elizabeth warren and at one time because of stock options elizabeth warren said he's a billionaire avoiding taxes and has paid more taxes than anybody in history has ever paid to any government probably because he exercised stock and he rustled the playground and wants to punch people in the nose. third the end the most delicate part is is eldest surviving child, a child that died in infancy named after his favorith character and age 16 she

transitions to being jenna and starts texting people in the family hey, i am transitioning, i am not a girl, i'm named jenna but don't tell my dad. yeah, okay. he gets his head around that, everybody in the family says okay, ... children but she becomes very left-wing economically hates all rich people, billionaires goes to court to change her name and make sure sure wants nothing to do with him ever again. this causes them such pain and asked to lash out a bit and he believes that a crossroads where she went to school some of you may know invi los angeles, the

woke mind virus and progressiveness made her hate capitalism, hate her father so all of these things are jingling togetherer and the fact that he loves twitter, he's addicted to twitter inc. doing dumb week late at night about pedophiles, came divers and money in his pocket because he exercised like twitter so he does. kathy in a couple of people, whatever you want dark, it by him back to the playground where heat was beaten up and he has a chance to own the world playground.gr >> is going to say -- and that brings us to twitter. things are going well for him at this time, both the companies on all cylinders --

>> no cylinders, these are electric. [laughter] >> and to the end, he makes this junk, what is the temptation for him? why is twitter -- >> one of the things t about tht moment you talked about and it was when i was around with him he just become the richest process on the planet. a million cars that year. the most valuable our company he launched 33 rockets into orbit and landed them upright to use the rocket, something still no company, not nasa or boeing or anybody or country or russia or china can do. i'm thinking this is great and he says i was not made for the

car. i sailed into the storm, about to put my chips back on the table and every single person close to him says times he's most uncomfortable, unnerved is when everything is going well. the times he's most energized is when all hell is breaking loose. to lose would s say things are going really bad andd stressed and i would have to hold his hand as he vomited, he would channel raises his father once said to him but during the day is back in the fight so in that. say early 2022 when things are going well, you can't leave him alone. >> it was yet that period,fi ths is a difficult portion of the book to read in part because you realize he cannot engineer a

platform in his human emotion and dependence. >> he's such a good material science engineer. he can look at the raptor engine and say it should be in canal, we should do it in this or stainless steel for the truck. he does not have a fingertip for human emotions, he doesn't have the antenna or receptors until i'm asking, what are you thinking? he said well, twitter, they havt no' improved the product, you can't do video or payments and into the engineering problem. as i write in the book, it's not engineering product, it's an advertising media gathers people with human emotions and the other reason he wanted to like twitter is when he had done his second company x.com, a huge success, a company that allows you to dod payments to other people and form a social network to do its and morphed into paypl

know he is one of the owners of the company and they change the name to paypal and they make it a payment system which will use but it's not the everything at great he told me about why are you doing twitter? it's my chance to show and use twitter as the booster rocket to do what we should have 20 years ago. >> pickup tom in 2022. >> he's peaked in a lot of ways inthat now covering. >> april is when the fauci opens, the big fauci in texas. the largest fauci in the world making tesla and that april is

when he's lying twitter stock and they want him on the board andne open they are saying antonio, my are you doing twitter? he is deciding he needs control of twitter austin is the third a delightful fact, he's autistic very wide. his motherhe is and they are all saying don't like twitter. why would you want this? he's even asking his kids.

oh dad, we don't use twitter he things it's stupid and whyng doesn't the future look like the future? thing the other parts about twitter, may his mother should havede been a demographic signa. [laughter] but that's when fly to hawaii and vancouver and i suddenly is on this brush and i try to write the book from their own and you say really short in verse likely or forge change chapters because how i talk april through the present thinking twitter, everything five or 61 the twitter board accepts his offer, he goes down to the tiny town in this and decides night he's

going to figure out why there is a methane leak. two hours, everybody in the room is like he just bought twitter, it's like the biggest deal, everybody in the world talking about it doesn't focus on the nothing great. i was there for the trip downdo the. i was not there in vancouver. >> talk to us about the starling, what is the lesson of latin and what is the left the united states? >> the lesson is when russia invaded ukraine, ukraine commanding a tool, they have to communicate with theirro troops the russians are able to commercial satellite and able to have all satellites go down exceptso starling, elon musk tht night providing internet but also communications between the

troops so sending text, we need starling and his comic book superhero kitchen and only for four nights, he's sending hundreds and thousands of free starling services will basically saving ukraine. then what happens a few months later i've been with them for a week and my old high school football game in thehe bleacher, mannings game and he's about to go jonathan martin and elon and he says they're using starling to laundry guitar, russian fleet crimea. >> the first question is -- he

says is going to cause world war iii. he says i know russia, they will retaliate with nuclear weapons. he says will never allow it, we are not going to allow it. i wrote butla he turned it off cthat night. it was geocentric and they were asking him to turn it on and they didn't know, they were using it to launch this attack so secretly it was zero and you see all the messages not only in crimea but in donbas. he's deciding -- they provided but turn it off it's not offensive, my family lives there. is this high-pitched night in which he ends up not allowing starling to be used on this sneak attack and they wash ashore. this causes his how could he not

enable it? why did he let them do it? i do sayle at one time, have you talked to mark milley? i'm saying is currently a question but as we sometimes show, socratic like shouldn't you -- he says yes, he has been on that. he owns the deciding to give up and tell control for certain number of services and make a military version of it and he is now coming out right to the u.s. government and intelligence agencies so u.s. officials get to decide how the starling

enabled to be used by the ukrainians. >> the question, is it good for this much power to be in his hands? >> it's not and that's why it's good he finally says we are going to give up this power. let'say say -- i don't know the exact sequence of when mark milley knew, it was unable because the only time he would kick me out of the room and the only question he wouldn't answer is what classified information, i classifiedul information about have to go so that is still to be determined. >> there's a larger question, should he have so? much power? of the not should be somebody else can get medications satellites in orbit. our main u.s. intelligence solids, boeing, boeing can't get

up high, only super heavy falcon rockets them.ke the only person making starling and when the tried coast to coast ev chargingdi networks, it didn't really work and general motorsrs and ford opened up his own charging instead of public funds. >> as the book went on, i got the sense were growing more impatient with him for at least lack of self-control, did i imagine that? >> i found it difficult and trying to convey it in the book inyo the terms, i don't preach,i don't say is what you think, i will leave it to you but by the end, he's doing amazing things, he's getting starship loss, studied artificial intelligence

company self driving machine learning but also somewhat unhinged and uncontrolled and same things especially posting things on twitter and it's so impulsive and antonio vazquez said we are traveling and i just have to stop him to and then 3:00 a.m. musk called hotel security so i try not to be too judgmental but you can read the book and you can see boom, boom, boom all of these things that happened and make the judgment but clearly the unhinged postings and when i ask, he says

if i have one regret, i keep shooting myself and stabbing myself and he's like why do you keep doing it? he says this i is who i am largt theme of the book which is controlled, impulse control, you could say temper this. what a temperate mostly as successful as this? could call it the rigid phenomenon or whatever it may be, people were strong and driven and drive people not, can you pull up the start orbit will

every light and woman fabric and understandingat, it doesn't mean you you helpful to understand. >> do you think he is a force leading market because. he's a force for good and we have to remember the entire animal movement nobody was going more than any other person on this planet for about, make batteries and is has made doing

puzzles in the last six months, he's done. this is more than all companies you will. think of more more we speak.

there are couple questions for how to describe her next. >> i think a biography because it isme time but from the computers and everything, her team and all the our genes which music and design of the that's a bigsk deal. currently, mostly somebody out there changing the way we live jobs and must both have absolute passion, i think jobs have more spiritual feel for beauty and

the design and spiritual connecting with human emotions and says we know how to make people's heart sing. i don't think the long has that feel for human use. would you like to write next. >> what female? >> i would say offff the restaurant -- it's kind of a for instance russian. i'm telling you something i'm chewing on but don't tell priscilla or simon & schuster. you see the big? there's one person with the real transformation of the beginning of the 20th century but has not do and she's a person who figured out that basically chemistry and physics are the same, it's about electrons going around in an album and about radiation and what is a

radiation? it's about appear out of chart and nobody has written the scientific biography and she has awesome personal life. her husband how to allow but make sure she was, one in chemistry and one in physics. he gets by radiation and killed by a sweetheart and she says in a fair one of the students so when she wins the second prize is a huge scandal and tell him not to come to accept but she accepts andt says that she doesn't say this, if i were a man, he would say that. i may write about somebody else. >> what has is taught you as a

historian? >> it's given me greater appreciationha for experienced line, the best out of folks. in our day and age, everybody is a hero or a villain shakespeare teaches us we are a tapestry and we are back in this day and age and elon musk is a litmus test which is somebody people who can't stand that. i love my tesla but i am in balance because it's elon musk so we have to be able to

understand not only nuances but sometimes darkness can somebody is something that you have to understand and maybe not admire but understand people are more complex it's not cartoon heroes and villains. [applause] ♪♪