he comes running around a big bush. the elephant comes a big bush, catches him with her trunk as he's 3 quarters of the way around, lifts him up, throws him through the air, i hear his voice in what seemed like a calm declarative tone say help, he slides ten feet, lands in the grass, she steps forward and with her tusks goes like that and jams at him. that's the scariest thing i have ever experienced because i'm standing 50 feet. i asked for this hike, i got ian douglas hamilton eviscerated. it's on me. she backs off, i come running up. i look at him, he's on the ground. .. ..written about ten years ag.

adam and eve after the pill and a microscopic book for the

revolution. a decade later published after the pill revisited which looks at the macroscopic effect of thf revolution on politics and society and christianity itself so the aperture has been widened in the biggest possible terrain. >> what are some of those that you've noticed? >> let's try to do the short version. i've been interested for a long time tracing the faultlines. i'm not a reporter. i don't look at the surface. i try to get underneath that the big trends that are transforming our world. one is the sexual revolution and the collapse of christianity which begins in the early

1960s. families are more broken than they used to be. this has been a transformative effect on our world. we can talk in more detail about that one. the collapse of theth family has meant we are sending more and more people into the world that don't havewo experience of the first community of the family, andam this i think is beneath wt we talk about on the surface when we talk about the divisiveness of our politics for example. when we talk about the fact people seem polarized at each other's throats. i believe that underneath of this are the accumulated factors of six decades now that have resulted in children that are less socialized that have

resulted in because they didn't get their practice in the family. >> we are going to show a headline from the boston herald in 1960. this is about the fda approving thent contraceptive pill. you can see it right there on the screen, u.s. drug agencies oks contraceptive pills. in your view, that event changed the world, is that fair to say? >> i think it was the most transformative thing to happen since you've took the apple in the garden of eden and the reason it transformed relations between men and women. we have to go back to the early 1960s to realize people thought this would be a positive thing. they thought that it would strengthen marriage, for example, by giving people more power over their fertility.

and they thought that it would strengthen society. they were no longer tied to large families but something strange happened during the next few years. it had a destructive effect. suddenly the forces skyrocketed and cohabitation also skyrocketed. abortion quickly became legal and there were millions of those so whathe happened here, where s this thing that was supposed to liberate humanity having such a negative affect? secular economists have looked at this and they concluded that what happened was the pill meant men were no longer responsible. there was no such thing as a shotgun wedding which was a phrase that probably some listeners won't have heard about it refers to the fact that if a

woman got pregnant the man was typically held responsible. birth control is a game changer in this way because it meant women were held accountable usually exclusively whether or not they became pregnant. this was a woman's problem, a woman's issue and simultaneously of course that makes the man less relevant in this situation. there is a wonderful sociologist named lionel tiger that wrote a book over 20 years ago and he argued that the pill had essentially sidelined men. they were not needed anymore. only men who were in control of their fertility. so these are seismic changes in the relationship and today when we talk about the problem of men or what to do about all of these aimless men, i think what we are seeing is just the latest in this trend but i am describing that begins in the early

1960s. >> host: you write in adam and eve after the pill revisited that since the pill was introduced, there has been a rise in abortion and unwanted pregnancies. >> and that is a paradoxical effect and my first book talks about the paradoxes because a lot of this fallout was unexpected and talking about the revolution, i want to make clear that i am not being mono causal for the deterioration we are seeing. that is the one cause that has not been addressed sufficiently in sociology or by church leaders or others in authority. it's become the thing hardest to talk about and i think we need

to talk about it because splitting the human out on the way we did in the 1960s and beyond is beneath a lot of the worst problems of our time. >> i'm going to read for quotes from adam and eve after the pill revisited just to give viewers an idea of the themes you're talking about in the book. you can expand on any of them you want, but the short quotes, the revolution and workers as a force second to none. six decades of social science have established the most efficient way to increase dysfunction is to increase fatherlessness. third quote, christian believers are open unchartered waters and finallyy post-1960s disorder was indeed generating casualties

of all kind. anything very you would like to expand on? >> i would like to start with the idea of casualties because everyone knows the subject's are difficult to discuss. everyone in some kind of family affected by the trend is under discussion. when i raised the question i am not trying to point fingers and make people p feel bad. i'm trying to connect the dots soto that the generations that come next might suffer a little less from what we are describing. after the first book came out over ten years ago, there was one thing that surprised me which was the emotional resentmentsth of the book. this was not a self-help book i thought of as a cynical kind of undertaking.

it resonated with me. let me tell you my story of how it destroyed my marriage. and there were even harder stories that i heard from all over. so the thesis that it was having negative consequencesce that wee not well understood seems to be vindicated by the personal stories, testimonials of people who wanted to talk about how they were worried about raising their child without a father, for example. so there was a lot of emotional resonance and intensity that i didn't expect and it's part of

why i continued to look at the subject resulting in the second book. >> one of the adam and eve books you talk about a high school girl in 1972 who was pregnant and it was quite a scandal and today that doesn't raise an eyeblink in a sense. >> that is a snapshot. the story goes like this. i grew up in upstate new york in a series of small towns and down the street at one point a young teenager got pregnant and it was the talk of the neighborhood because the father who was a young soldier newly returned from vietnam did not intend to marry her. that is to say the scandal was not about her. what was thought scandalous news he would leave her as a single

mother.y she went away and have the babyy and returned to school. there was no social program to my knowledge that was directed atec her. twenty years later i went back and was talking to a former teacher. she said the third of the girls graduating that year were pregnant. none of themem were married. so in this gap i think we see what was repeated in america this story by the millions where no longer was it thought that pregnancy was something that two people were responsible for. suddenly only one person usually frightening youngen woman was responsible for it and i think that is a civilizational step backwards. >> how did you get from new york to washington? >> i was very fortunate. i went to cornell university on a scholarship.

after that i thought i would like to be a philosophy professor. i double majored in philosophy and government but i decided to take a year off and to make a longto story short i started writing and got involved in the world of new york journalism of the smaller intellectual magazines that are not the thing today that they were back then. but in the 1980s, magazines like public interest and commentary were exciting places to write for and hang out in the end i ended up as an assistant editor at the magazine by irving kristol and ended up doing ghost writing for the reagan administration and from there ended up speaking with george

schultz for two years. >> what is your full-time job currently besides offer. >> we have four children and did little writing for about 15 years. the faith and reason institute and alsoa i hold a chair at the catholic information center in washington, d.c. >> and it's fair to say you are a practicing catholic? >> i try. >> the most recent book after the pill revisited was written by cardinal george. who was that? >> a great intellectual spiritual leader and i wouldn't pretend that i knew him well but he was kind enough to take an interest in some of my writing

and we had a correspondence about some of the themes in my book. for example, one thing that caught his eye was a meditation that i wrote about the theme of chaos. in 1930 when the novelist converted to catholicism he was asked by a newspaper why he did that and he just said because in our civilization now the choice is between christianity and chaos. the chaos of his time was very different in 1930 the interwar period there was political chaos and the carnage of the 20th century. in our time it's very different and yet we are seeing in more detail than was specified, chaos

within christianity itself and because of that essay kindly offered to write a foreword to the book. >> cardinal health went on to write that the church teachings over the years have been coherent and consistent. what did he mean by that? >> he meant that it stood as a sign of contradiction in the world that whatever was going on around it it would continue the same teachings. they go all the way back when jesus tells the disciples that unlike the jews his people are not allowed to divorce for example. these are hard teachings but there is a consistency.

they were put off limit the end and thisteaching has not change. we talk about mercy and redemption just as that idea has repelled many people it has also drawn others in christian believers are an open unchartered waters. you will go on to talk about in your book the church of night. under the pressure since the

revolution, christianity has buckled and what, i mean, by that is there is, a desire to accommodate so let's not be georgie, soft peddled teaching at christianity and let's talk just about the teachings that they do like. of the protestant churches have completely abandoned these kind of teachings that go all the way back. they lightened up on divorce, they lightened up on homosexuality and pretty much anything the revolution would claim as a prerogative. the interesting thing is the result of this has been institutional decline for the churches that ran in this experiment. at the anglican community for example comes to mind.

it's collapsing. i read a story recently with a headline that said while the last person please turn out the light. so it's every denomination that tries the church split over the question of the church and ended up going in the direction have not flourished as a result. here we have a paradoxical thing because you would think that being nice would make it more likely people would show up in your church. strong strict churches are strong as the saying goes. it seems to have been worse for

the churches who decided to jettison the most unwanted teachings of teachings that make our contemporaries most uncomfortable. it was widely embraced including by catholics yet what we saw including the catholic church shied away from traditional teachings because they didn't want to make people uncomfortable in the post revolutionary era so we have this dynamic where the decline of the family fuels the decline

of faith and of the practice of institutional religion and we can talk more about that one if you like. this came out in 2016 and in that book if you would expand on this for more than two centuries americans have prid themselves on their commitmt toreedom of religion. readers the lien in a more secular direction might be surprised to hear anything has happened to shake that bedrock pledge yet in recent years the commitmenthi to freedom has come under siege. this is because the revolution is on a collision course with traditional christianity and judaism. traditional christianity had a bed rock set of teachings that were unpopular in roman times

and have been unpopular ever since. along comes a sexual revolution and its devoted partisans which includes the great majority. the opinions i'm describing are minority opinions but the question is how destructive is that fight and i think it's very destructive of the united states. for example, let's talk about how the adoption agencies have been shut down in some states the pressure coming out them is from real people who want to replace the teachings of christianity with the anything goes revolution theology. i believe this has become a rival to christianity. we have to ask ourselves is this good for people and for those

adoptees to miss out on a loving home, is it good for the poor. who does that help? it doesn't help the sisters of the poor were there were among the poor. my point is when we see this collision andec the attempt to e cap good work done by christians, we are seeing something that is bad for the worst off among us and i don't think that this is well understood. but people who are audiological go after kristin good works routinely into this isn't called

out. >> i want to ask about the supreme court decision on roe v wade last year. that promise ended. should abortion in either case be legal in your view? >> i am a constitutionalist and turning the question back to the states was an overdue constitutionalist collection. it's a very important decision and represents these first time since the 1960s that there's been serious institutional rollback involving the sexual revolution. and as it says in affect we call this wrong and we turn it back to the states.

i think it may be a game changer not only in the u.s. but elsewhere in the world because what happened after roe v wade country after country watching the united states came to adopt similar walls to legalize abortion where it had always been criminalized for example. those countries, both leaders having second thoughts as well so this decision will reverberate and i would predict that it would have a good effect in the united states because if bathere are more babies among us that will be a humanizing thing, not a bad thing. this is another issue that we should talk about. taking care of people who are smaller and weaker than they are is one of the ways we get

humanized. this is done routinely. everybody knew what to do with abb et cetera. i'm not romanticizing it. i'm not saying we should go back to the 1950s which is a decade i didn't live in. what i am saying is they have a good effect, not a neutral just as having to take care of other people has a good effect. we see a coarseness that has increased as people are out of the practice of taking care of others and simultaneously as christianity is in decline they are not being told that one of their jobs on earth is to take care of others and these have

affected us. it favored of those who are pro-choice and favored abortion rights. so, realistically did this decision hurt your point of view ind a sense? >> i am not a politics first kind of person. i want to know what the right argument is and what's going on out there and i would rather be right fancy my party elected. >> the author of several books we will show you those in just a moment. here's how you can participate. the numbers are on your screen.

(202)748-8201 if you live in the mountain at pacific time zones. if you can't get through on the phone line and want to make a comment, this is the text number, 8903. if you do send a text please include your first name andt, cy if you would. a social media several ways to contact uswa as well. we will begin taking those calls in a e few minutes. home alone america the hidden toll of daycare behavioral drugs and other parent substitutes. the loser letters a comic tale of life, death and atheism came out in 2010. how the west really lost god,

2013. it's dangerous to believe the just freedom and its enemies came out in 2016. how the sexual revolution created identity politics in 2019 and adam and eve after the pill revisited came out in 2023. the first adam and eve came out in 2013. we will begin taking those. the subtitle, how the revolution createdid identity politics. the tie that together. >> they are in the midst of an identity crisis. identity is all around us and a question that is asked constantly. where is this coming from? getting back to the world before the 1960s there were two

fundamental answers to the question. if you were to say who are you, what common response would be i'm a mother, sister, cousin and we can define ourselves relationally that way. simultaneously most people throughout history have had some belief in the cosmos and the deity. so what happens when the churches go mute what happens is the conventional ways of answering o the question far off the table so we see this tribal into politics and specifically identity politics.

especially among conservatives they like to poke fun at the idea of coming to call them snowflakes and say that they are just impossible to understand and so sensitive. i see suffering, not having what most human beings before us have. for the community and good work and redemption and words like that that we don't use so much anymore. these seem to be things people need in perpetuity and the fact so many grasp for these things.

this is the generation that first comes of age after the sexual revolution and the first move is to declare men and women can't get along any longer. from there identity politics perceived to black lives matter. black lives matter manifesto that isin heteronormativity and the nuclearar family.

it also declares that there were apparently new problems and in relationships between men and women. identity politics doesn't arise out of nowhere. we should have a look of empathy for the people that are drawn into this way of doing politics even though this way of doing politics i think is very divisive for the united states. onists say to subsidize something is to ensure more of and this is what the sexual revolution has done. it is subsidized androgyny by raising the penalties from traditional masculinity and femininity. a lot of people are puzzled by how androgynous the society has

become. what has happened is since the splitting of the human adam they have risen the traditional housewife is widely mocked. it makes you retrograde and makes people laugh at you. simultaneously men who are tradition minded are also exiled for a different reason. in the means to see the hold it

has over the imagination. in a way that we are only n beginning to understand, it appears the naturalamily as a whole has been a human symphony which god has historically been heard by many people into the gradual but by now regnizable muffling of the symphony is surely an important overlooked part of the story o how certain western men and women came not to hear the sacred music anymore. when sociologists look at religion there is a tendency for peopleop to think sure such and such a family has such kids because they are religious and their religion tells them so.

how they really lost god is to turn the thesis on its head and maybe some of what we are seeing in thehe decline of christianity is the fact that people are no longer living in robust extended families. in other words there's something about birth, for example, that transports many people to a different frame of mind. standing at an open grave, which we also do less and less of that confirms the notion that there's cosmos here.ut the the less experience we have of

birth and death and taking care of the sick the less likely we are to get those glimpses into something more eternal than we are and that is what that book is about. >> before we go to kohl's i want to read a couple of your quotes. and i apologize if these are not original to you but they stood outt to me. you described the 20th century as men have forgotten god and of the 21st century as men are at war with god. >> in 1984, alexander gave a very important address in which he said that the problem of the 20thco century could be summarid in four words. men have forgotten god and what he meant was of course the carnage of the war would not have happened had christians really believed what they said.

how we would describe is a fair way of trying to summarize what we know so far as the 21st century. what i mean is that we are at war with creation itself and the very idea of the creative order from birth that we want to control in every which way possible to death where we see this increasing press for euthanasia because we want to be in control of the basic fact of male and female and we also seek to control. and if there is an anger about this war on the creative order that is another outcome of these

radical changes. >> let's hear from glenn calling in from michigan. you are on with author mary. >> i would like to ask about competitive religion like a free market of religion where there's an official religion and states. based on judaism and pope john paul ii actually viewed this as

not so much a competitor the secular atheism and the cultural stuff you've been talking about. i was wondering what's your opinion and do you view it as more positive or negative and specifically do you see it as more of a competitor? >> thank you for asking that question. and how the west really lost god i limit myself to talking about christianity and to some extent judaism because islam is not something i'veth studied intensely. that said i think we can generalize about all organized religions that they share this

in common. our nature doesn't start out good. we have to work on ourselves and get someplace. once more with the decline of christianity seeing another unintendeded consequence here which is the idea that we don't have to work on ourselves anymore. we are perfect the way we are. if we want to walk out the door in ournt pajamas that is just great. we can do anything we want in other words there's this radical autonomy that seems to rule in many places now that would not be a ruling if people took organized religion more seriously. >> edward, new jersey. good afternoon. e >> i find flaws on two points.

people brought their full family units to lynchings. to make all of the god-fearing bureaucracies in the world impoverished and if people pray five times a day and can't alone so i really believe it is the way of the future. technology and logic is the only path forward. >> do you consider yourself an atheist? >> if god was proven as a real concept i would be against it because i'm and freethinking individual just because he created it doesn't mean he controls us more observant in

some way so i don't think there's much evidence between the organized religion and capitalism but at another point, whether it's good or bad, christianity ebbs out. i'm not saying this to romanticize but it is a sociological stat. people who go to church or synagogues or are religious are far more likely to give to charities for example and so now as we seamless christianity we will see less of those kind of good works. they are more likely to

volunteer. they are more likely even to donate blood. the constant message that you needo work and you needed to do good things does seem to seep down at the grassroots level and affects personal behavior in a way that is good for society. >> edward talked about science versus religion. are they compatible or in competition in your view? >> i think that is a misunderstanding because of the success of the new atheism over ten years ago when the bestseller lists were dominated by several braces like christopher hitchens, richard dawkins and what we saw about religious people where the idea

was not only are they bad for society and religious people committed to the atrocities of 9/11 and therefore all religious people are potential terrorists. i think even without elementary logic people could see why it doesn't hold out. >> you also write about the fact thatr the atheists do have a strong argument against organized religion because of the child sex scandals et cetera and the mistakes that have been made. >> i think there's a lot of room to criticize the churches and the fact of the scandals was something that helped to propel the new atheism. we are talking about two different things though. behavioral andon the one hand ad whether something is true on the other unit you will get no

argument from this quarter about the scandals i wrote about in lengthth. if anything what the scandals eproved us with the church teaches that people are born with original sin and they have to retain themselves. >> with four kids and writing, how did you manage to do both? >> i didn't write for a good while. >> do you miss it? >> no because it wasn't the most important thing i was doing. >> when you write your books where do you write them? >> often in my head and then i

puten it on paper. >> were things better when you were young or now and it depends on who you are and where you are in society. frankly privileged, whatever that means but i accept it, it was a totally different world than african-americans, then hispanic sandals roots of groups. i don't know how you qualify and make the judgments.

that there's an awful lot of things that the dispute. there were some things that were much better and some things that were much worse. that is a nuanced view. i'm using a variety of the forms of evidence to support that statement. let's talk about animal science which is something i discussed at some length because we've learned new things from animal science and for example there is no such thing as the lone wolf. they don't run around by themselves any more than people do. this is true for most other

mammals that have been studied. now why is this? because its gives them protectin of the kind because they are safer in numbers and because of evolutionary perspective, this is where social learning takes place is in animal families. monkeys are not born knowing how to be. they watch others and connect with them and we see these in the experiments on the animal's animalsoperation done under har. it's usually so t dysfunctional they can no longer be returned to the animal society. what does this tell us? what does that tell us when they are separated from f their own? we can see this very clearly in

the species. this is something i'm applying to homo sapiens saying we also suffer when we have these radical disconnections from people around us. it's one of the most unexpected evidences that supports. is there a difference when it comes to the topics that you are discussing? >> in general it seems as if the denomination has sufferedd the

biggest collapse that is the denominations that decided to dispense with traditional teachings of things like marriage and family. some of them c have also split. a tradition minded and less tradition minded but there's no doubt the trend is affecting all the christian churches. >> have you looked at the growth of mega- churches and the prosperity gospel of the joel alstyne's of the world? >> not particularly. what sociology seems to prove is that the stricter the church, the stronger the church is likely to be.

but to say come and see us on sunday. >> text message i reside in richmond kentucky. my question is my background is retired usmc and retired instructor at kentucky law enforcementha academy i have societal problems affecting law enforcement, consequentially society. i believe a major contributor is secularism. referencing the 60s i pinpointed to november 1963. of the leadership issues with the department at virginia tech university about the lack of humanities in society i believe the writings are on point. would you address secularism and the revolution? >> first let me say thank you for your service.

it became like a great big party that got out of control. now it's two in the morning and nobody wantsan to call the polie on the party but everybody realizes that something bad has happened and somethingen has toe done. people want to embrace it and what made itit possible was to stop taking christianity so seriously and that is part. it stood like a brick wall against the party that was going on.

i think if you look at the historical dots what is making people walk away very often is that they don't want to be told towa do hard things that became much more difficult after the invention of the birth control pill. >> and with your text message, chris from texas how does climate change fit into the mosaic of your thinking? >> i'm not a scientist, but it makes me hopeful and that we see people that are passionate. they will become more disciplined because of it because they believe that is the right thing to do. it seems it is a leap between the concern for non-animate

creation, climate change and concern for animate creation, human beings. family, other people so i think there's a lot of potential synergy. >> manwell is in california. you are on booktv. >> clinton invited me to the white house as well as the top back then they used to call them hispanics.

i grew up as a rich kid, born in havana and i just had my 70th birthday party in my country club. obama behind-the-scenes we now know obama had to go behind-the-scenes and raul because i was born under fidel. between my two countries because of how emotional i was about that. i want to ask you some people

say do you agree with that sentiment? >> my question to you is my theory that catholics are dangerous because of the cuban missile crisis. it's the closest the world ever came. john f. kennedy as we all know was the first catholic president. what people don't know is he was

raised by catholic nuns and priests so we have two very rich essentially white guy is, catholics almost bringing the world -- >> i apologize. we are going to leave it there. we are going to move on to long island new york. good afternoon. please go ahead with your question or comment. >> i happened to enjoy some of your work very much. your books were very t enlightening and i want to ask how you feel about the current with the recent events and how you feel about david berkowitz

latest works. >> i am not sure who he's referring to. is that something you will write about it? >> that's a political question that i haven't particularly written about. i took an oath to protect the united states of america and i believe in putting the national interest first and we can have discussions about what exactly that means but in other words this is a question about american national interest and security and that is as far as i've gotten. >> and the talked about the fact that open borders as far as cuba is concerned.

anything there? >> not really. >> thank you. i appreciate you, c-span, and appreciate and command the work you're doing. i just wanted to speak about there's people calling in and they point to members and groups. they are not the whole group and certainly not the philosophy behind it were the beliefs. that said, i look at its absolutely true and for the atheist i will step back and say the principles were chaos to make it palatable to them. they do create a structure for society that is not chaos. it talks about the family

structure and if you hit it with psychology and sociology, you find out it really does work. it makes children that respect authority you children that respect law and that is the next generation we need. i think from a functional psychologist or from a pragmatist, it works and we should use what works, so i want to state that and thank you for the work that you are doing. ..

it actually has an effect on people that makes them better members of society. i agree with you that the answer to that one is yes. 202 the area code when our left in our cumbre station with mary eberstadt 748-8200 and the eastern central timezone and elect to participate (202)748-8201 for those of you in the mountain pacific zones and if you want to make a comment you can do it by text for social media 748-8903. please include your first name and your city if you what and when it comes to social media just remember at macbook tvr e-mailil address booktv @c-span.org. march 26, 2023, "the wall street

journal." you can cancel me. i quit. what was this op-ed? >> i was invited to give a speech at the university and that i was excited about never having been there. i looked at the local museum which apparently has a great collectionec of andrew wyatt's paintings and generally up for this and then they forgot their a typical thing happened in an exaggerated fashion which is that some students decided that i was a -- i have a photo advertising my talks across which someone wrote fascist and misspelled it to advertisements of my speech were taken down on campus and in the local student newspaper and was being called names that i really can't think

there was any truth to like. i was called dangerous etc.. so it turned out the speaker before me had a really bad experience with this kind of cancellation. he went to get this talk on dostoyevsky and people lined up with posters saying he was a bad person and all of this. he had three armed guards. they guarded him during his talk on dostoyevsky and the student left the talks and couldn't commit come in and sit in the seat etc.. in other words this is cancel culture. i thought about it and i thought maybe it was time to make a statement in a different direction. and not to have students play this game since the of going in giving my talk with armed guards

and being subject to people calling me names that i don't deserve, i wrote an op-ed in "the wall street journal" saying it was canceling myself because i think speakers in this toxic, newly toxic environment have the power not to play the game. instead i sent 25 of my books to the president's office at the university so they could get them for free and wrote a piece in "the wall street journal" and gave the class by zoom. my point to the speakers out there orpe to anybody is worried about cancel culture is you can reframe that situation. >> mary eberstadt the cancel culture situation that you face, is that different than it was even 20 years ago as far as allowing a controversial speaker and i don't mean to call you controversial but you knowt

someone with a point of view? >> it's much different now. it's much more -- because there's an irrationalism about it. some people show up with their. taped shut for example and some speakers have been subjected to pounding on the wall and threats of violence. social media course in flames all of this because whatla happs is that instead of reading one of my books and taking exception to it with the people involved in this cancellation are doing is cherry-picking anything so they will find a quote from a radio interview given 20 years ago and taken out of context to make you lookak bad. this kind ofd cherry-picking distracts from what an author is trying to do. it distracts from an argument. again this is not something that we asked to do and maybe if more

people cancel themselves we will see less of it. that's the whole. >> in your book you mention the allison's bangor charles murray incident in middle berry college >> yes, so we need to talk about the irrationalism out there that we see among the inflamed young and particularly among the followers of identity politics. this has nothing do with an intellectual agreement with the speaker because everything to do withth an unbound kind of arrangement the state of some of the students get themselves into. in case of charles murray and allison stanger if we reduce what happened at middle berry in plain english what happened was a bunch of able-bodied college

students attacked a 70 plus-year-old man and sent his hostess on campus, middle-aged professor,dd a woman to the hospital with an injury. how can these things be happening? i think the answer again goes back to some of what i ride about. peopleme are very disconnected from one another. they are not being socialized many of them and their families or by other institutions like religion and so they are arriving on campuses with replicating into identity politics and really unraveling as a result. this is something we need to understand. this is not business as usual. this is about being attacked ad hominem. this is about being called a, a trans-phobic, and lgbtq phobe are racist etc., etc..

these were not the labels that were strewn around by the vietnam war protesters back in the day for by the civil rights movement. these are new adew hominem labes that bear no relation, no observable relation to reality so it's this reality we should be concerned about. >> with the charles murray and allison stanger into the there is a case where her presser stanger didn't necessarily agree with charles murray intellectually. wanted to have this dialogue and conversation from the speaker. >> it that was especially frightening but she was just a facilitator in the room. from primal scream's quote what's happening on campuses and elsewhere today is not nearly as pseudo-politics of sf-gard. it's all pat: , allal the time served up with more than a smidgen of violence.

>> it's no secret that mental illness has been rising among the young. he kindly referred to the first book i accomplished home alone america which is about young people about children and adolescents and there's a whole chapter in the about what we could see already 20 years ago whichy was that the rise in anxiety and stress and pat: and depression especially was real, that therapists didn't think this was an artifact. they thought the young people that they were seeing were increasingly exhibiting these kinds of traits. that trend describes 20 years ago has intensified so much that it's often a front-page news story whenever the latest study comes out. so why are we seeing all of this mentalal illness and psychiatric troubles?

is no doubt the social media place apart on this and social media storing gasoline on the fire especiallye. with imagery putting gasoline on the fire and trying to get what the fire is about. i think it's about this free-floating lack of connection having destructive effects on young people. a cragun fayetteville, north carolina please go ahead with your question or comment for mary eberstadt. >> yes, i'm enjoying this conversation very much. i have two quick questions. first of all the secularization at one point in american history at what point did you think it started to happen? i think it started to happen in the late 1800's. and the second question is where is this all going? we are are already seen the breakdown of our institutions and the breakdown of the families in the breakdown of law

and order. if we don't turn around and recognize that we need jobs in our country, we are just going to end up resulting with a total collapse of our society. i'd just like to get your perspective on that. >> thank you greg. >> thank you. to take that last part which is very important i do want to say their reasons for being hopeful here because it is easy to despair about some of these issues. but i take hope just from the fact that in between the publication of that the first adam and eve book 10 years ago and now with the new one, it has become possible to talk about these things more broadly than it used to be. back when the first book came out to question the revolution in any way was just forbidden.

it wasn't talked about in the mainstream -- mainstream press. people would ride me off as a religious fanatic even though there's no theology in the book. the book is -- all of my books are. 10 years later he seen a number of books and in different countries interestingly all of them written by women and all of them questioning what i was questioning 10 years ago which is in this new world we live in is this new world good forn children and now we see secular riders start to take on this question. i'm really encouraged by this because if you look at bad episodes of human history and if you look at poor example the tribalist jim lott of english people were having in london,

right before the victorian era they were at terrible things afoot. children were drinking gin and mothers are drinking gin and pregnant women were drinking gin and reformers went after this. they said this is an good for you and this is an, good for the baby and the result was a religious awakening and the social awakening and it became one of the reforms of thee victorian era to stop people from hurting themselves as badly. that seems to me is the most likely outcome to where we are now which is why it's important to draw attention to it. c mary eberstadt i saw an article recently that was a survey of english anglican bishops. the overwhelming majority said yes it is true england is no longer a christian nation. what does that say to you?

>> says it's correct that what happened is the collapse of the family in england and in other places became the collapse of the church even though the anglican community was trying to make nice and try to play bond thing we need to push the things that people find objectionable. despite that england is no longer a country in which the majority of people identified as that. >> the 1980s moral majority ronald reagan. was that a religious reawakening? not from the point of view of sociology. but it brings up an interesting point. there is a tendency to be ati kd of hegelian about this stuff and i think that religion is an

inevitable decline. certainly the atheist talk about itli that way and even religious people often think about it that way which is why they despair. because they think that this is some historical process that's going to end with everybody being the village atheist. history itself refutes that point of view because what we see as we look at examples of history is that religion doesn't go like this. religion waxes and wanes in thei world. it looks like a wave so for example in victoria in london there was market more religiosity than there had been in the preceding years. and the idea that, the idea that materialism drives out, that the richer we got the less we need religion is also falsified by the example of victorian london

because the religious rival was led by the top of the economic ladder who are more likely to be going to church in assessing belief. they see that pattern in the united states even today. similarly after world war ii there was a religious boom and all the countries of the west including places that are very secular today like new zealand for example and across europe. people came back from the war and they told the churches did you can see this reflected in what hollywood s was offering ao in the movies about christian stories, the 10 commandments, the singing nun, whatever. the point is people are going back to church and those revival which is this religious wound is not known as the baby boom that

accompanied it continued up until 1963. in other words it's this hegelianism that tells us whatever is going on will go on inevitably including now is refuted by historical example. >> text message from the fort lauderdale. ms. mary eberstadt you are overgeneralizing but i have two friends who were stay-at-home mothers and housewives and no one mocks them. i also have other friends who are working mom's. working mom's woulde love to be stay at home to their families need two incomes to make ends meet. the cost of living is too high. >> yes, point y taken and it's impossible to have a conversation about such large subjects without overgeneralizing and i'm sure everybody can see those counter effect to any given point being made but in saying that the

stay-at-home mom has become the socially less acceptable option in the dominic conversation i think is eminently defensible because the social pressures on the side of the workplace and the economic pressure. >> from a city may be feeling with david in utica, new york. hi david. see a good morning. i think we need to understand that this woman is a science denier. and science deniers if they were to get their way which have christianity which would start by exposing jewish people and or the other way around. and then they'd start working on

christianity by catholics are always at the top of the l list. before you know it while they are encouraging you to reach -- there will be men and women and capes riding up and down in the middle of the night. we have seen that before. this breeds it and in church in bunches running up and down streets, breaking glass. that is what happens, she is going to deny it off course that is what happens when science deniers and she wants the big bang and she wants ethan adam, my. >> david thank you for calling. >> the big bangas was a tiny pie of the quantum. >> david thank you for calling in. mary eberstadt science might --

science denier man ann richards in many capes. >> that's a good example of the kind of pushback i get an bringing up these issues and the fact that is largely ad hominem to the point that i was making earlier. but i do want to make one comment about the brownshirts and the suggestion seems to be thatat religious people end up . to make a factual historical correction that was not the case. that was the point of alexander solzhenitsyn's life to downgrade that ideology is as possible for ideologies devoid of religiousus faith. the anti-and the communists were anti-and science connects the dots to end up as is not

historicallyly plausible. >> are you a science denier and when somebody has said that maybe they to you what you do you think that means? >> i think it's a label. i think it's an epithet. an epitaph is not an argument. i feel the same way about trans phobe for example. that's an app without. what in the world is that supposed to mean? nobody explains. they just hurled these things around to discredit people and you can't respect that. >> tacoma washington, good afternoon. >> hey good morning. how are you guys doing today? >> wee w are good. go ahead and make your comment. >> my comment as my ears perked up when the guests talked about labels and i've come to the conclusion it's being used by

the right and from the left without knowing what they are really talkingey about. and as a 60-year-old man it sounds like code for the most form. they are using it as a weapon and nobody seems to do anything about it. when a man from florida calls everybody woke, where wouk goes to die what they are really saying is it just seems to -- nobody is calling it. if we are going to leave it there and i will ask mary eberstadt about your thoughts on the word woke and wokeism. >> the word is dispensable because it gets at a kind of truth which is the united states was t largely founded as a natin they were all kinds of her files including in upstate new york.

it was a hotbed of these things and there was not one but two quote great awakenings as they were known. the word woke does seem to capture something about dave's identity politics that has a religious impulse, that has a religious flavor that is somehow connected to the kind of revival protestantism that was dominant in the country. i think it's defensible to use that word for that reason. >> mary eberstadt is the author of several books and you can see them behind her but will show them on the screen first book home alone america came out in 2004. the hidden toll of daycare, behavioral drugs and other substitutes. the letters which we haven't talked about yet, the iconic tale of life, death and atheism came out in 2010. how the west really lost in 2013.

"adam and eve after the pill" that same year but it's dangerous to believe, religious freedom and its enemi in 2016. primal screams have a revolution created identity politics came out in 2019 and "adam and ever after the pill, revisited" just came out this year. one of the things we like to do is ask our guests what they are reading and what some of their favorite books are. we got the favorite books from mary eberstadt instead we got a thesis on currently reading which i'm going to read part of this to you. it's a little more interesting when you add instead of just the title. the ster and margarita mckale bol cookoff. did i say that correctly?rg >> i don't spesian >> anything shakespeare.

for lighter reading i'm a big of detective thrillers phillip kerr and pd james r. masters of the genre. what is the master and margarita? the mouse to and margarita -- the master and margarita was written by a stalinist from russia by playwright and author who somehow managed to revive. it is impossible to describe briefly but it's fantastic novel about the intersection of truth and riding and falsehood and oppression. it is so vividly told that the author could not publish it in his lifetime because it would have meant his death. it was a critique of communism but there is a famous line in the book and my favorite line from all of literature of this consulate author is sitting

there and his manuscript has been thrown into the fire. all his life's work is in vain and thens another character who is a supernatural character declares manuscripts don't earn and it magically comes back to him. in otherer words, all of labor isn't for nothing because once something is written, it's very hard to get rid of it. that doesn't mean you see its effect in your lifetime. the author of that novel never live to see the effects that it would have but one of the effects it had when it was published was that it caught fire around the world figuratively speaking and to say that manuscripts don't burn the came as logan for freedom seeking people. i thought that was a beautiful story and that's why it's one of my favorite books. >> what's the best way in your view to understand? >> to see it live and

uncorrupted. to see it on stage is my favorite way of reading shakespeare. >> currently reading here we go overnt the summer mary eberstadt wrote to us. i read an outstanding book by a publico intellectual called the apocalypse of the sovereign self , recovering the christian mystery personhood. to gripping in depth analysis of the collapse of anthropology is leading to social and psychologicalle dissolution. i'm working through a big stack of historical and other books aboutnd upstate new york and one of the most fascinating and largely unknown pietri dishes of the american experiment from the iroquois better see through the use years of the so-called burned over district within a president of the religious ferment to be game-changing eric canal and subsequent blood spilled to the opioid and heroin

crisis that has devastated parts of the state. although taking place against the background of natural beauty. this is a place you have understand to understand our country and its pioneer history. i grew up in hamlets and villages scattered across the states. in next few years i'm hoping to great -- break new ground in telling these amazing stories from different genres. that's the story want to tell by your home territory? >> i want to credit a great late friend of mine p.j. o'rourke who had dinner with me 10 years ago almost exactly asked me what was on my mind. i started talking like that and said what's on my mind is upstate new york and telling somebody stories and the historical intersection and trying to get the hang of it. most americans are aware of its

viciousness and we talked more and more and p.j. was on fire with the idea that i could ride not in one genre not ride a history or memoir. he said in a german you can manage if you want to do fiction it -- fiction tell us fiction. if you want to tell it as a memoir tell it as a s memoir. no one has her story and that's another great line. no one has any individual story except the individual so i'm hoping to do exactly what p.j. wanted me to do which is to ride about history and characters and perhaps return to fiction. it was one of the best adventures of my literary life. p.j. o'rourke has sat in that chair for this program a well back and i guess i wouldn't necessarily put you two together

as friends. >> p.j. and his wife tina and my husband nick eberstadt and i and a couple ofd other friends grew upth together over the last 35 years or tried to. >> you talk about the letters and the fact that it's fiction and i don't what to say sarcasm, that's the wrong word as satires the word i'm thinking of. the letters here's a quote from mary eberstadt. cheering for and omnivorous broken homes and abuse and up kids and allsc the rest of the revolution's fallout may not bel everyone's thing but most of you new atheist guys have definitely made it yours. >> a total hard to explain but w

atheism. i'm sure you remember the years that were dominated by is their and isn't there a and there was push back. most people who were not in the atheist camp who are trying to respond to this for taking it at face value and riding serious books. many other people wrote serious books they know here's why the claim that science -- are compatible is false or here's why the new atheism is wrong. i have wanted to take a different tack because i suspect when it comes to these questions of are you religious and are you not religious there is more going on under the surface than just the loss of the 101 arguments about whether god exists. these often had to do with deep personal issues for our reasons

for not wanting to believe. i tried to get it despite inventing a female character and she is a fan girl of the new atheism. she's riding letters to the new atheist trying to help them up their game and saying it had to do this niechta to this and make it better so we can all be atheist in the end. in the course of these letters her own personal story comes out. you can see the connection between her rejection of god and what's happened in her life in her broken life that's made her project it. it was in 2017 this novel was adapted for the stage and in a premiered at catholic university in america for two weeks in the fall and that was very exciting and i'd love to do more work like that.

>> the next call for mary eberstadt comes from jack in san diego. jack you were on booktv. >> it's good to speak to you this morning. i've been in the advertising business for many years and i'm 79 so that gives you a idea. one of the issues that has come to my mind between -- teaching people in jail how do graphic work and how tok make communications coming up with any to explain a communiqué. and it goes back a ways on just the advertising in the power of being connected and how it can help someone connect. at any rate in my studies the amygdala interprets the sensory

of our eyes and ears and other sensesut measure our -- what's going on in our environment. what happens is we -- this goes back and this is once we feel like we are losing her territory we will have anxiety and that's because the amygdala tells us the pituitary we need adrenaline here. >> jack i apologize. can you bring this to your point? >> this sets up a conflict in what you are talking about. if communications disturb someone's territory makes them think it's shrinking and we have more and more and more people in

the world are we heading toward a huge breaking apart m of territory on a massive scale? >> i think we got the point. jack, mary eberstadt anything you want to respond to there? >> in the book primal screams there's a chapter in which i intend to fictional characters, one is a man who came of age in the 1950s and another whose grandson brandon was the name i made up coming-of-age now. so it's about the difference in social life between the boomers and the millenials and boomers and what we see is what i call acts of human subtraction that brandon's life is not like his grandfathers because so many people have beenau subtracted ot of his life by fatherlessness,

abortion, the shrinkage of his family and other things that i talk about there. that's an example of trying to capture that feeling of losing. the word used was territory but i would say losing human connections. >> greg from sacramento, are you familiar with jordan peterson and what do you think of his ideas about instructional truth? >> i can't say i'm well in the red to recognize those words but i have a feeling the kinds of crowds that he brings him of young men, i saw him bring a major american city to a standstill wednesday because he had filled a stadium and from what i have read of him and seen of him he is giving young men what they need which is practical talk about how to be a

man. and where his work i think connects with mine is that i'm trying to describe why he has this audience. he's a wonderful speaker and so this is not about him. to describe the supply-side of this. where are all these young men coming from? >> a text message from jim in in and university pl., washington, subject god. what g definitive proof do you have or know that god exists, proof and not police? >> well if i had that we wouldn't be having this conversation. but i would director towards how the west really lost god because that's where i try to get the idea that there is a deep connection between lived experience and religiosity and the more because apart from

other people less wer understand why everybody before it's practically has been the atrophic or leading towards god. this is true across cultures. people want a connection with the cosmos. they want a connection beyond themselves. generally speaking other atheists aside that this is the human story for the most part. mary eberstadt in your view has christianity from time to time been co-opted by politicians? in a negative way? >> well, yes. one of the things that might make people believe in original is how corrupt the relationship between the church and the state can be. and how confounding it can be one for example we have kings

with defined rights. again no argument about how the church has often up itself for head corrupt leaders or leaders with social motivations rather than supernatural ones. >> going back to the kings and queens with the divine right to rule. it was always said by elizabeth ii truly believe that she was chosen. and that whole viewpoint has faded out, hasn't it, that these families have the divine right to rule? >> well if you're talking about the royal family they are subject to the same sector rising trends that we are talking about so be surprising to hear any of them having an

right atat this time. >> mike good afternoon to you. >> when i look at this democratic party and its constituencies marxist socialist globalist progressives, you have gestapo tactics. you look at stone and mussolini they target the same types of people people with a religious and family values and parents didn't want to see their children -- labeled by the state and it seems like this is a party that worships the state above all else. i wonder if you see the parallels there? thank t you. >> what i see and what i ride about is the relationship between the date -- breakup of

the family and the welfare state to the welfare state as we know it has arisen largely in response to the trends that i'm describing because it comes in two bank roll broken homes. it comes in to be a political superad daddy in homes without a daddy. inso this way the decline of the family and the rise of the welfare state perpetuating each other and that again it's not the way we are used to thinking about the welfare state but it is the bedrock underneath when we talk about why we need these social programs. i'm not a libertarian here but there's a level in which those two things connect to. >> has the state become a new religion? >> certainly, it's not the state

that things that people use to get to power has religious overtones. a >> mary eberstadt back to the pill in 1960 and economics in your view the pill and the sexual revolution. how have they changed economically? >> i admire the work of the sociologist named w. bradford wilcox at the university of virginia who has done great work of establishing that if we had the same rate of marriage as we had say in 1984, most households would be significantly better off. b this is the reason we need to talk about family policy in america because it's directly related to the economic troubles that many people experience.

divorce is expensive and a single mother households is very difficult and began not pointing fingers here. my own mother was a- single mother and i am not very sturdy grounds about that. part of the economic problem today is a people problem, the problem of contraction and problem of not having as many hands to run the household. >> mary is calling it from palm bay, florida. mary, please go ahead. >> hi. thank you for taking my call. i want to start by saying i read a u.s. legal scholar the foundation of western law and he was primarily speaking of christian so my question to mary is about the destruction of the rule of law and the public good

and the steckler is a shin -- secularization and what are the main groups and organizations that take illegal action to destroy the rule of law and how do we restore it in her opinion to the public good into a loss to return to christian and stop the lot of these bills that she's been speaking out and i thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you. the attack on christian charities or will usually launch by organizations like the american for civil liberties union and other groups lined with identity politicsvi particularly object the tq and versions thereof. how do we get back to a better place? this is why i think we have two shed light on these things.

it's like in a situation where there's a patient who is ill. the first thing that doctor us to figure out what the problem is because nothing will be -- without the problem being understood so what i'm trying to describe is the problem and one of the things that points to is theoi need for crying out pro-family policies at the state level in the federal level anywhere we can devise incentives that would keep say a couple in the same home doing the hard work of raising children, making their financial lives easier. i know they arekn politicians to talk about these kinds of options. i'm not a politician myself so i'm not going to go there. clearly there is a role for government to overdo experimentation. >> mary eberstadt i found in your riding this trilogy.

father with a small f, father with a capitol f and pager -- patriarch -- patriarch. what is that reference? >> one thing we haven't talked about is another kind of decline which is the decline of patriotism. as we see clearly among the young. to me it's one of the most surprising findings because i always regarded myself as a patriot and anyone who works in government gets an enhanced sense of patriotism so what does this mean? in one of the chapters in the new book an enemy than the pill revisited that perhaps there's a relationship between the three declines. the decline of religion, decline

of family often meaning the absence of the most natural father and the decline of attachmentta to country because what is ailing many people today is not just that they can't find the church and they don't want the church and they live in small families. there's also that connection to community. robert putnam road so beautifully in bowling alone. this has increased over time. so not being connected to a community is another way of -- and that's why speculate maybe this kind of attachment or nurture or everyone to call it is likeur a muscle and alissa's exercise in one sphere the less it's exercised in others.

weee see these simultaneous this attachments. >> cornelius is calling in from alexandria louisiana. good afternoon. >> good afternoon peter and mary but i want to wish everyone a happy labor day tomorrow in this is constitutional month-end patriot day on, september the 11th. we need to celebrate all of that. i patriot two. peter want to talk to person and we will go to miss mary. i found out what year the book was, it was 2008 abraham senior eco of dealey plaza. he got a pardon from president biden so he would be a great gift. he tried to prevent president kennedy's assassination. >> he's referencing an older program when he called in.

go ahead cornelius. >> my question for a you mary i happen to be an african-american and 62 years old. i remember we were in segregated schools and we had to -- we had the parent they anthem and national anthem at the schools that the of the pledge and the national anthem. once we integrated we just had the the pledge in the national anthem. i believeat that you, the democrats have pretty much taken all thisen stuff out. if you look at "the communist manifesto" they completed everything. i have an idea for you. with ai technology coming up and the military refueling that these aliens which i believe are fallen angels and stuff, that would be a good book for you to look into because they want to ai and ai god and rewrite the, artificial intelligence. that's myy comment.

god bless you peter, god bless you mary. >> you have a blessed day. >> i want to go back to technology because we have had cars and phones overe the years and everybody lamented oh no this will end badly. these things seem to bee exponential in what we do with them. and how we isolate ourselves. setse a fair statement? absolutely and science is proving it. how do we control the? to me it's a little like the example of tobacco which was ubiquitous when i grew up. every adolescent i knew practically smoked even in the hospital back then as long as you weren't near an oxygen tent which is m unbelievable. what makes it unbelievable now? there was a reform movement that arose that people didn't want to listen to put over time the

600th study showing that tobacco can cause harm people started changing their minds. this is why we can no longer smoke in restaurants today and this is why fewer and fewer people smoke. there was a change in public incentive and i'm notco saying that two pets pets smokers pretentious using it as an example that that day is coming with af smartphone. i think the harms that can do are going to be increasingly well understood and particularly strategies for keeping kids off of that will proliferate. >> cornelius brought up intelligence. have you thought at all along those lines? >> i'm still looking for the regular intelligence.

>> dan from bridgewater, new jersey. dan come please go ahead. >> in your discussion you left out the easternn orthodox churc. the eastern church believes in the mystical relationship between the individual calling to god and the church to fulfill that relationship and i think in that sense it distinguishes it from the catholic system which insists on her relationship with the church as a means to get close to god. so when you have priests are these other problems in the orthodox church whatever the church does its only function is to serve the relationship between the individual and god. i think you deemphasized that

relationship and to the detriment of christianity which was really originally set out as individualistic but a relationship between the individual and god that can never escape no matter how fallen or whatever he may be, he still -- at all times in his life. >> thank you, sir. and i don't have a comment, thank you. my comment was i wasn't trying to sideline orthodoxy. thank you for that thought. >> mary eberstadt meacher people say i'm spiritual but not religious, what does that mean to you? what do you hear? >> i hear the idea of diy religion, doing my own religion and it's understandable that people would think this. but people who believe that don't understand our capacity

for self-delusion of what i mean is this. i'm devising my own religion and i like to play texas hold them, which i do. i'm not going to devise a religion that says gambling is a. i'm just going to put that on the table because it's not in my interest to come up with a religion that stops me from doing something that i like. you can continue the metaphor. if i'm designing a dinner party and i'm a vegan i'm not going to put steak on the table, it's justab to say we have a very strong tendency to do things that are in our immediate interest. so i don't think anybody who is designing his own religion is going to make demands on himself. therapy questions about whether the demands made by judaism and christianity of all kinds are reasonable demands. what are they therefore?

we spend their lifetime examining those kinds of questions and about the question ofthe whether spiritual but not religious is the same thing as organizedd religion? absolutely not. >> billings montana looks like he may have last word, go ahead. >> hi mary. i am sharing my search for regular intelligence with you. i don't think it's going to be found on thisis program. but i do have a question. the religious right, the evangelicals believe that trump is the chosen one. mary, is really the chosen one? >> bill before we get her to answer that question or to talk about that what is your experience with religion?

>> i was born and raised a catholic and to that and i'm recovering. >> thank you, sir. evangelicals, christian right,, recovering catholic. anything very want to address? >> the specific question was his theon chosen one and this is not something that's been given to me to know. >> what about the evangelical life and their support of former president trump? i don't understand why the right is singled out in this way. they are obviously about people and it who like what he stands for who like his policies during the four years of this administration and those people have as much right to vote for who they want as president as

anybody else and yet for some reason they are ours the ones that are put into the petri dish andd people ask why are they supporting fears scrutiny against other groups. >> do you consider yourself an evangelical right? >> no. >> what does that mean actually? >> if a product of a thing and it has been very wedded to politics and desiring certain political outcomesol like he end of roe v. wade for example but it's not where i'm coming from. >> mary eberstadt if someone wants to read one of your books which is the one you would recommend? >> you said it wouldn't be hardball. thank you. for people interested in the relationship between the sexual revolution and the decline of religion in the family, how the

west really lost god but please note that all of those are addressing the general reader. some of them have lots of footnotes that they are footnotes because i didn't want to distract the i'm riding for regular people and have no theological or other position in the arguments of the book. so i hope to change the minds and i'm representative by the college today who take exception and i thank them for their relative stability. >> mary eberstadt thank you for being on "in depth" in the 25th year on air. >> it's been a great pleasure, thank you.