>> thank you so much. >> >> as part of our new series, we're asking you, what books do you think shaped america? >> my pick for the book that shaped america is "to kill a mockingbird." >> and one by betty freedman. >> and you can join in the conversation by submitting your pick for the book you think helped shape this country. just go to our website, c-span.org/books that shaped america. click the viewer input tab and record the video. in 3 seconds or less tell us urick and why. be se to watch books that shaped america live every monday at 9 p.m.astern on c-span. >> weekends on c-span2 are an intellectual feast. every saturday american history tv documents america's story and on sundays, book tv brings you the latest i nonfiction

books and authors. funding for c-span2 comes from these television companies and more, including charter communications. >> charter is proud to be recognized as one of the best internet providers and we're just getting started. moving 100,000 miles of new infrastructure to reach those who need it most. >> charter communications, alg with these television companies, support c-span2 as a public service. >> and now on book tv we want to introduce you to jennifer sey. her book is called levi's unbuttoned, the woke mob took my job, but gave me by voice. jennifer sey, what was your career path at levi's? >> slow and steady almost all the way to the top. i started in 1999 as marketing assistant entry level, lowest of the low and worked may way

up to chief marketing officer 2018. held that pose a long time, most people average 10 years, 18, 20 months, they get fired, but i did a good job. helped the company go public. became the brand president and outspoken about the need to open public schools during covid and after a two-year conflict internally i was told there was no place for me at the company. a cmo. what's the job of a chief marketing officer? >> let's see, how can i put it into words. you're responsible for the brand's image. responsible for generating demand revenue, profitable revenue ideally. but really, you know, all of the communication that goes into establishing what the brand stand for, what the products are from the brand, all of that. all of the advertising, the pr, and the very search marketing, what the website looks like,

what the stores look like, a lot of stuff. >> is and was levi's a good corporate citizen? did it live up to its profits through principles motto? >> no, i would argue, absolutely not. >> were you part of pushing that though? >> pushing the profits through principles? i was. i was really proud of that. i believed in that, that's a mantra for people don't know the company often cites, we believe in profits through principles. i say we like i still work there, but we have products that make their lives better and treat employees fairly and workers fairly, i believe that in that. for a very long time levi's further employee principles that i was proud of integrated factories in the south before the law required it. the first fortune # 500 company that offered same sex partners

benefits and, but in the last five to eight years, that's not really how it is and it's really about a conformance culture that demands obedience point of view and everyone else is pushed out the door. >> what's the conformance point of view. >> it's left wing orthodoxy, simply put. >> what would you have considered your politics to be? >> left wings, i would have considered myself left of left of center my whole life and i voted democrat, sometimes voted green party my whole life, but i asked a lot of questions during covid about the policies that were primarily furthered by left wing governors and mayors, policies around lockdowns and school closures. and you know, i found the policies to be not only

completely ill-liberal and harming-- that's what we've learned the policies harmed children and poorest and most disadvantaged children the most which to my mind was obvious what was going to happen. so, it felt antithetical to what it meant to be a democrat to me. we were supposed to be the champion of the underdog and yet, we were punishing them while keeping the spoils for ourselves, sending our own kids, not mine, but you know, to private schools. i really found that hypocrisy intolerable and harmful and it just made me feel like the entire dogma platform was a lie. >> as levi's brand president, you can explain exactly what that is. >> sure. >> were you reporting directly to the president of levi's. >> i was. >> were you tracked to potentially be ceo? >> i was. as the cmo i was reporting

directly to the ceo. which is unusual. i went from brand president not just the marketing and communication, but the product, the design, the shirts, they reported to you me, and that's the difference between cmo. anything you would interact with as a levi's consumer, that came from me and my team. if you saw an ad, put on a pair of pants, we did that. >> so, who was chip-- who is chip berg. >> chip berg is the ceo of levi's. >> remaining today? >> he's still the ceo although he's stated he will probably retire soon. i think he's about 65. military guy in his youth, worked at procter & gamble for over 20 years and then moved over to become the ceo of levi's in 2011. he was a brand guy. i think his politics were probably fairly conservative when he joined levi's, he said that to me directly, but moving

to san francisco opened his eyes and you know, he took more and more very left wing stances which i'm fine, anybody wants to do that personally, i've done so personally as well. forcing that on all of your employees, disallowing them to express any sort of dissenting view from that, that's not profits through principles. >> do you consider chip berg a friend? >> no. >> and a mentor? did you at one time? >> not a friend, but a mentor. >> did you trust him at one time? >> not entirely, no. i am ooh-- i mean, i sort of had a love-hate-- no one has asked me that. >> you write a lot about him in levi's unbuttoned that's why i'm asking. >> i was grateful to chip when he joined i had been at the company 11, 12 years at that point and started as a very

young person and your managers have a tendency to see you as you were then. so i had a hard time breaking through whereas chip saw me with fresh eyes. i was, i don't know what i was at the time. vp of something and whoa, she's good and he gave me a lot of opportunities. he also overlooked me for a lot of opportunities that i deserved, some of which i didn't actually include in the book and boring and too inside baseball, but i was passed over for several jobs he promised me. so, no, i didn't totally trust him, but i do believe he thought i was really good at what i did. i do. >> why did you not get the ceo job in a nutshell? >> because i was outspoken about covid restrictions. >> and when you say outspoken, you mean on social media? >> not just social media. i-- yes, social media, but i also wrote op-eds, attended rallies to get schools and playgrounds

open. i wasn't a sort of keyboard warrior, i was active in the community and i take my civic responsibility seriously and i was active in that process. >> did you enjoy your time at levi's? >> i did, until the last two years. the last two years were very difficult. you have to understand i spent over two decades, i had a lot of friends. i, you know, when you spend that long at a place you go to baby showers, weddings, funerals, these are people who you believe are your friends and not a single person stood by me. >> in your book you talk about the woke mob and i want to quote, woke capitalism seeks to build consumer loyalty through social justice stances rather than what the company makes and sells. woke capitalism seeks that the company is to do the world

good, and woke capitalism with the messages that companies care about employees even as they lay them off at the same time they're delivering unimaginable wealth to shareholders and executives through dividends and stock price increases. >> sounds about right, yeah. i mean, that's my issue with it, it's a lie. it's reputation laundering. you know, what is stated inside the board rooms and executive confidence rooms is something akin to, if we take the stance and align with their values, their values being the consumer or perceived consumer, they will like us more and they will buy more stuff. that's what they say. i was in that room for ten years, that's what they say. the younger employees believe in it. they're true believers. most of the-- and some of the executives believe in it. most of them, it's a very cynical way to wrap themselves

in virtue, appeal to consumers, they think, although we see that's back firing to some extent, but keep the money for themselves. and there's so much-- i'll give you an example which i cite in the book. under the cover of covid levi's laid off 15% of the work force, we did it with empathy, what the headlines read. at the same time they cashed out 40 million in stock. that's empathy for the common worker. empathy would have been fighting to keep the job, fighting to open the stores so they could keep working. that would have been the empathetic response. >> this is a bit of an autobiography because you talk about your early life and what you were doing before levi's. what -- where did you spring from, so to speak? >> i was an elite gymnast as a child and wrote my first book chalked up about that experience sort of a little bit of a whistleblower account as

well. i trained from the time i was six until i was 19. loved it until i didn't. kind of like levi's, it's a pretty cruel and abusive culture, physically, emotional and sexual abuse rampant and that was exposed by the case of larry nassar, the case of the team doctor. >> and you were the national champion in 1986. >> that's correct. >> how much pain were you in? >> a lot of pain. i won that on broken ankle. my ankle was broken. >> was that typical for gymnasts to perform in that shape? >> yeah. >> and what did that do to you as an adult? >> it's soul crushing, to be in that pain, and to be told you're a wimp and a piece of garbage and doctors telling you there's nothing wrong because

they're told by the coaches. i started to unravel emotionally and physically and i lost the ability to do it because i was mentally kind of unravelling. we were also starving ourselves to death. you know, anorexia is very common in the sport. it was enforced forcefully by our coaches meaning you need to lose three pounds by tomorrow, i don't care how you do it. these things were literally said to us. so, you know, i was starving, my ankle was broken, i was deteriorating by the day and i ended up walking away from the sport a few months before the olympic trials in 1988. >> ala simone biles in tokyo. >> well, she did it during the competition. i did it before, which is what i advise before know the during. >> what when you talked away as the national champion. >> i wasn't in 1987.

two years prior. you know, i was not a national champion that was really embraced by the community even the night i was won, it was difficult, everyone said she didn't deserve it, and she's the worst national champion we've had. i was a 17-year-old kid never expected it to happen. i was the best on that day, whether i was the best that year doesn't matter. it's a competition, who is best that day and they sort of tore me down. i should mention though, no one expected me to even be at that competition because i'd broken by femur only nine months earlier and everyone thought i was out for the count, down for the count and 1985 championships and i was the comeback kid. >> how much of your identity, four to 19 wrapped up in gymnasts. >> a hundred percent of it, i didn't have an identity outside

of your sport. and like any athlete, you don't have an identity outside of your sport, it's very hard. >> and interacting regularly with people was a new thing for you at that point? >> i was just-- in some ways i was secure and sophisticated, i'd traveled around the world and lived on my own with a coach and in other ways i'd been completely immature. i hadn't been on a date. didn't have normal social interactions, but i went to college. >> you went to stanford. >> i went to stanford, yeah, and i was on a mission to be a normal kid and i got a little rebellious with you i think was healthy for me. >> were you on a gymnastics scholarship. no, i didn't go that route. i wanted to get in on my own merit. >> after stanford where did you go? >> i moved to san francisco in 1992 upon graduation, the best place i lived in my whole life. i loved it so much, it was the

home for anyone who ever felt like a weirdo. it was just embracing and everyone was welcome and you could be as weird as you wanted to be. and i wanted to be beard weird. i had been so obedient and conforms as a child and i pushed the boundaries. i loved it. at that time was if illed-- filled by young people and artists and it's not that way anymore, they can't afford it. and it's tech. >> and i loved it and so my children could attend school and i miss what it was, because it's not what it was. >> we'll get to '21 in a second. you took a series of jobs and roommates, no money. >> yeah, i did. everybody did, that's what you do when you're young. i lived with four or five other girls. i worked odd jobs. it was fun. you know, and i eventually landed in advertising agency in 1994. and found myself eventually on

the levi's account which is how that all ended up happening. >> at what point in your career, jennifer sey, were you making the kind of money that a cmo or a group vice-president, a group president would be making, could live comfortably in san francisco? >> probably by the time i was cmo which was 2013. i was very bad at advocating for myself in terms of compensation and all of that. i was terrible at it. i remember when i became the cmo, somebody accidentally sent me, i don't think this is in the book, like a spread sheet with everyone's salary at my level, they didn't mean to send that to me and i was the lowest paid person and i was like, what? what am i doing, i'm the highest performer. i had never been so good at that. >> you tell the story in the book meeting with hr and telling you no increase in pay,

take the good job. >> right, and i agreed to that. that was stupid. >> so at what point did you start to become known as the troublemaker at levi's? >> you know, i don't think-- >> and i hate to use that word if it's not-- >> that's a nice way to put it. i think the real way would have been like not a troublemaker, but a q-anon conspiracy theorist is kind of what i was known as. i was pretty outspoken in covid, march of 2020, i questioned school closures. i didn't get a call from anyone internally until sent of 2020. you know, i knew it was controversial, i knew my friends were like what are you doing? no one called and so i said, maybe they're not on twitter, maybe they didn't notice. boy, was i wrong. i got the first call in september of 2020. >> from? >> my peer who was the head of

corporate communications. saying people are noticing, they don't like it. and i said, so? your kids are in school, right? said yeah. >> why were her kids in school and yours not. >> the private schools opened. >> the private schools were open, her kids were going to private. public schools, your kids, still closed. >> more importantly, 60% of them were without wi-fi and no parent to monitor them. >> my kids were lucky in public schools, i was concerned about all children. >> at that level were you at jennifer sey, is it tempting to go the private route? >> i was never interested in it. i feel like we're part of the city and the community we live in and i don't want to be cordoned off from it and i think it's like raising veal in a pen, when you cordoned your

children off from like real life and real-- their neighbors. i want to be part of the city we live in. we're not better than the people we live around. >> back to levi's unbuttoned, quote, and this is your inner voice talking to yourself, this is the way you wrote this, you can put a we care about profits through principles face and you can post about blm and lgbtq and the other letters, but when the rubber hits the road it's all about the benjamins, as they say. and desperate to maintain this harder right over easier wrong, we really care ethos, you strike down any view that veers from the orthodoxy, the san francisco bubble, democratic party orthodoxy because, yes, you're about party, not principle. you're about appealing to the woke to sell jeans because they seem cool to you, like they might buy more and spend more than some midwestern,

unstylish, self-avowed patriots. that's the loud part, that's the quiet part being said outloud, correct? >> i get to do that now. >> is it refreshing? is it scary to be able to say things, write things like this? >> you know, it's refreshing. i mean, obviously, i said what i thought. ... of covid before, but i was restrained and i look back and i am proud of how i comported myself. and you include a lot of the tweets that you sent in the book? well, i think it's important because any reasonable person reads them now, thinks they're perfectly reasonable. i wanted to make that clear there is i would challenge anyone to challenge anything. i said. i would challenge anyone to challenge anything i said. i'm nice, undiplomatic. i'm restraint. i'm never rude. i cite data. most people now who are rational look at the things i was posting, i don't get what was wrong with that.

yeah, e exactly. but a more free now to let the inside voice out, which is freeing. it's liberating. i don't have to think what is somebody going to think? i've also been called every name you could be called. i'm not afraid of what they will call me. i laugh at it now. >> who are members of the wall mount that you refer to? >> well, there's various sort of cohorts. there are young employees which is a small but punitive minority is like sending emails to my boss and h.r. there's a cohort of employees who called me all manner, races, biggie, qanon conspirators and get y these ideas out of me. >> struggle session? >> struggles, you delight apology for and and i was bd before the apology tour -- >> this as brand president pgh yes i was already brand president. i was told i need to do an

apology tour. there's an email to prepare before the apology tour that if on after book the book that basically says you need to prove you're one of us, not one of them, you're one of the good guys not one of the bad guys. people think you are racist. you are qanon. they think your conspiracy theories and in anti-vaxxers and you need to prove you're not. >> okay. where did the racist part come in with your tweets about covid? >> i'll explain that. it's very convoluted but i can do it quickly. the idea was if you wanted the schools to open which were disproportionately populated by black and brown children that you do not care if black and brown children died, that was the convoluted rationale. >> where did qanon fall? >> i do understand that one. >> and speedy i'm not sure qanon israel to this day. i don't know. i can't explain that. >> the anti-vax part, are you

vaccinated, which you talk but in the book? >> i am. >> i did want to be. i did it because it was mandate mandated. >> for your job? >> yeah. >> why did you not want to? >> i look at my risk profile. it was very, very low. it seemed unnecessary to me. >> another quote from the book, don't get me wrong, i'm not against capitalism, far from it. i'm against the charade that is social justice capitalism. i want to buy stuff because it's the best of on the market. win me over with your excellent. i'll even pay more for it. i have expressed my political affiliation with my vote, not my sneakers or soft drink of choice. >> yeah. >> can you walk through a crowd and identify people's political

affiliations by what they are wearing or carrying? >> certainly if they are wearing, you know, like cam rainbow swoosh. swoosh is a nike symbol, rainbow would be there pride month, you know, t-shirt. yeah, i guess. there's very few brands that express, that are aligned with the more conservative, thinking aal pair of right now. i can rethink of apparel brands that are line. they are all left. that's why have no job. >> are you financially secure because of your past employment? which is in my business but it asked anyway. >> yes, but i can't not work for the rest of my life. i'm not that kind financially secure your time in no danger of my children going hungry, and i get a job. >> and you left the city of san francisco after all this happen, correct? >> i did. ii left in the midst of it because in the spring of 21 schools still showed no signs of

open. i had a kindergartner would never set foot in the classroom. i have four children but my kindergartner had never been in classroom and i, his first year of school i didn't want to be such a disaster. i wanted him to have a good experience and have a good feeling about school. so we moved to denver. our offices were closed. we were working virtually, so that my son could attend school in person. >> why denver? >> a few reasons. i wanted the city still part of was prepared to kind m of move o the suburbs. i just wasn't ready. it was close and it's a severus external. i can get there in a day or back, one day there and back. i still had some in person meetings with my team. and i like, and colorado there's a bit of a libertarian streak. it's very blue right now but they're very welcoming to all viewpoints. i have never felt afraid to raise anything i think, and have an open on his conversation with

my neighbors. and even the government, jared polis, keys, i mean he calls himself a democratic libertarian sign like that. >> jennifer sey, , to talk to anyone from levi's anymore? where you as they say shunned? >> i was shunned. i talked to a few people who have left sincein who have reacd out to me that's leaving. >> has anyone said sorry? >> no. >> do you think you deserve a sorry? >> i do but i'm not waiting for one. >> how is it that you're able to write what you write in here? did you not take i buy it ndaa? >> i took no nda. i was offered, so when i was told in january 22 that he needed to leave, you need to go now is basically what they said. you've lost the trust of the team and the employees. there is no room for you as a leader at this company. if you scientist on disclosure agreement will give you

$1 million. that was the offer. i did that not to do that because iig didn't want to signa nondisclosure agreement so i could write this book. not for the money. it's notth that much money but because i thought it was so important to tell the story of censorship. the fact is if i relate it to my story in particular, if we have been able to collectively to have an open and honest conversation about kids in schools and lockdowns, we would've reached very different decisions, rather than having an open conversation people like me were demonized and deplatformed at that is very dangerous. >> and is that -- the fact that you were demonized and deplatformed rather than having an open honest discussion, regardless of what the outcome of that discussion might've been, that's the thing that drives you innocent? >> now, , yes. in this particular instance i think if there then a societywide conversation with

doctors and epidemiologists and not just sort of government led talking points, because there were people, renowned doctors, pushing back. they were censored. but if we were permit her to have a conversation i think we would've reached a different answer a right answer children in california would not of been out of school for close to making month. that cause a lot of harm. but even if we didn't reach that answer we still need of those discussions on matters of public concern. >> you were demonized as well for which her husband daniel had to say, is that correct? >> yeah. >> is that a little misogynistic? >> that's a good question. i think so. that's all conjecture but it don't think anybody was asking that ceo what his wife thought about -- but prevented his e probably wasn't tweeting a lot like my husband but nobody's all that concerned about -- >> but he was not in favor of

the lockdowns, your husband? >> he was not. >> he was making that note on social media? >> yes. he was very vocal. he was going to at the lockdown rallies.s. i kept mike two is because i thought that was a bridge, you know, people anybody could get behind we don't harm children. my husband was outspoken more broadly about a range of issues pertaining to go with and he had a more aggressive and challenging tone than i do but so what? he doesn't work there. who cares? but apparently if you have resulted that has a viewpoint that the company doesn't lie, then you don't get to work there anymore and i just hope everybody thinks how dangerous this is what my dad is republican and he's a trump voter? he's not but what if he was? doesn't mean i can't have a job at levi's? is at the world who want to live in wax. >> did you know any conservative republicans who votedtr for dond trump at levi's? >> no. >> not part of the company culture? >> no. i, i will tell you, i mean, the

headquarters are in san francisco. so definitely not it wasou a matter of luck did you vote for the mainstream candidate with a further -- like were you a burning or a biden? that wasll all inbounds and acceptable. there were no republicans but we had an office in texas. we had distribution centers in red states in the middle of the country. i'm very certain that there were lots of folks in those locales that did vote republican or vote trump. am also very certain they did not feel comfortable saying that are making that known to the friends and colleagues. >> back to "levi's unbuttoned," yet as i write this it still puzzling over what i think the line should be drawn. when is it appropriateat for corporations to move beyond protecting employees to taking overtly with just about every large corporation in america, crossed

it. woke capitalism. >> summer of 2020. >> what are we talking about? >> you're talking about the blm rallies and they accelerated sort of denunciation of privilege and avowing to fight racism. the rush to hire heads of deep divisions -- dei division, hundreds of people elevate h.r., power and influence in these companies. i have. no issue with inclusion. this is not conclusion. if it were inclusive, why does it matter what i say an advocate for out of work? which by the way help people they say they care about. the student population in san francisco public schools is disproportionately black and brown. so it all just, you know, there's so many stories of people being canceled and fired in the sum of 2020 for some errant comment from ten years prior to some out into the context perceived as not

antiracist enough. there was a witchhunt goingin o. >> well, speaking of that, you think you could've withstood this if you have not been in gymnastics and inth that fire, n that cauldron for 12, 15 years and that the pressure on you? >> it's a good i question. i mean, i don't think having competed in gymnastics withstood a sufficient because low, my peers, you know, i will say this. so when about my first book about gymnastics there was a ton of low back there, albeit an american beauty in the sports community, the olympici moveme. i was really vilified and dragged across the unit and ultimately i was redeemed. it took ten years but i was. anybody can read and said you were right. that held close to me. you know, i felt clear eyed about what i was saying. ital was the data. i was logical and rational and i thought people are going togo

catch up. their emotional right now butit there were catch up. i believe that's true still. i just did not beat the clock i lost my job before that happened. >> surround "levi's unbuttoned" you bring up what you see as hypocritical behavior by elite executives and the rest. >> yeah. >> especially when it comes to schools. >> yet. i mean the crazy part is i don't know how schools and covid and lot -- they shouldn't have been political. we should of been concerned about the children. it became a sort of woke pillar of the democratic party platform i think in our zeal to their zeal to get trump out of office. i think that is what started it. and then it just became part of the ether, and even though biden won it kept going and going and going. and in the harms became so great that it just became fallacy.

we could and that it was so bad. were going to stand by these atrocious policies, i think. but yeah, so the was hypocrisy on the part of the senior executives of all, you know, a going to their vacation homes and in whatever they wanted and claiming we areal all in togeth, which was not true. their kids were in private school or pods and you're flying to europe and hawaii. but you had the, the workers comp that wasn't the case for them what it was like a frenzy in -- do so uniform when people believed and i think by doing nothing people believed they were fighting the good fight. that's what this is all about, right? you could stay home and do nothing and feel like the most virtuous person in the world. who doesn't want tono feel virtuous for doing nothing? >> and you talk about keyboard warriors. >> which i get accused of but i would push back on that. >> what is a keyboard warrior and was the danger of a person

like that? >> the keyboard warrior moniker is, for the very online, people who just like try to cancel people online and think of you are doing good activist oriented work because they are tweeting a lot and try to take good people down. i get accused of it because i guess ultimately my stack of twitter presence as at least part of my demise. but as a set i was doing all these other things. i was attending every school oboard meeting. i worked on the school board recall in san francisco to a successful. i led rallies. so i was a real-life warrior,, too. >> do you still tweet from at jennifer sey? >> i do. >> what do you tweet about? life? covid? >> i treat, i tweet, while i don't have any rules myself anymore so i i did to tweet at

whatever i want. i definitely talk a lot about the impact of children. i do want anyone forget about this.ki it cannot happen again. our kids are suffering. this is impacted a generation of children. i tweet about issues of, you know, censorship and otherw various illiberalism is that happening right now in this country. i don't know,te anything that interests me in the news. >> with the benefit of little bit of hindsight and time, would you change anything that you did during this time? >> no. i think i did the right thing and i was true to myself. and so i, you know, i try to be grateful that have the freedom to say anything i want now. there's nothing anyone can do. i'm not hurt by the names that they call me now. so i don't regret any of it. >> who is chris and what happen?

>> christmas my brother. we used to be close, so i thought. we did not agree on covid policy. he was a fervent lockdown are. i was a pretty passionate anti-lockdown are. in the beginning like the first year we talked about our disagreements.s. but it became too fraught and we haven't spoken in several years, two or three years at this point. his wife is a doctor a and defis my views to be dangerously critical of doctors. i find the position that not a doctor took individually but the doctors in public health took collectively to be dangerous and a violation of our civil liberties. >> "levi's unbuttoned" jennifer sey writes i unlike some have no real issue with rich people. that's capitalism.

some people, very few, or make a lot of money. what i do have an issue with is rich people masquerading as social justice warriors and fierce employee advocates while they are laying off 15% of the workforce at the same time as they're adding tens of millions of dollars to thehe bank accoun. they can't have it both ways. >> yeah. i don't like hypocrites. people call me a grifter. i don't know how they get that, but i'm not a hypocrite. i stand by my word. there's no grist and what i'm doing. >> what's the grid part? >> i don't know. it's a stupid thing people say on by. the sum of think i'm getting money for taking the stances and that it could not authentically believe in the things i'm saying. of course i believe in them. why would i give up everything? i gave up a lucrative career. it gave it not just a job i had but his future job of ceo which is would've been an incredible honor to be the ceo of the

company i work in 23, 24 years, a brand i love anywhere, and brand i had one since as a child. i mean the money is insane. i told you earlier, cash 43 went on a stalker i give that up so could use my voice. i mean, if that isn't -- i think it's in cover hittable to some people that you would give up money to speak the truth. it's an cover hittable so they think you must be getting paid by someone to do it. there's no one paying me. >> jennifer sey, "levi's unbuttoned" is a name of the book. the book job took my job but gave me my voice. >> if you are enjoying booktv then sign up for our newsletter using the qr code on the screen to see the schedule of upcoming programs, author discussions, book festivals and more. booktv every sunday on c-span2 or anytime online at booktv.org.

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