book written shortly after developing television series by the same name and strongly argues for a free trade lower taxes, limited government regulations, and school choice a best seller free to chose sparks debate today in 1976 milton friedman won for economics and was an advisor to british prime minister margaret thatcher and presented him with a presidential medal of freedom in 1988 and at the university of california santa barbara author of milton friedman a biography will join us on the program to discuss the book. watch books that shaped america featuring free to chose, tonight live at 9 p.m. eastern on c-span c-span now free mobile video app or online at c-span.org and scan qr code to listen to companion podcast to learn more about authors of the book featured. >> joined now by budget and

appropriation reporter for politico katelyn emma welcome to the program. >> thank you for having me. >> so you wrote this article on saturday for politico, here's the headline johnson announce a pitch to avoid a shutdown it is already hitting a wall where are we on the government funding? >> what speaker johnson introduced is really interesting for a number of reasons. so couple of weeks ago he kind of confused everybody when we flirted this idea of a laddered continue resolution everybody was like what is that basically? but what he ended up introducing over the weekend is something that it's kind of almost the best case scenario for democrats in a lot of ways essentially proposing funding a part of the government through january 19th and then the rest of the governmentua including pentagon biggest domestic programs, into early feck. so he's setting up two tiered stop funding is to avoid a

shutdown in, yousy know, at the end of the week baskly november 17th at midnight federal funding expired but this is a clean you know so-called clean cr. it doesn't include any spending cuts that the freedom caucus wanted that includes extension of the farm bill through 2024 in a lot of ways, it's kind of a good outcome for democrats who are sort of coming out against this idea of the two step thing. but some of them are holding their fire and sort of saying they're reviewing it and it will be interesting to see where democrats shake out on this particular idea. >> what are a conservative republicans how do they feel about it? >> well we've already seen pushback early pushback from guconservatives congressman chip roy, marg rei taylor green, warren davidson you know several folks who -- are known as being particular highgh liners are saying this is

unacceptable there are no spending cuts included this doesn't do what the freedom quay cuss caucus hoped. essentially it is similar to what kevin mccarthy, you know, paired up with democrats to pass and then you know lost his speakers gavel, it's sort of the same situation. you know, that saying that i'm not saying that speaker johnson is in trouble he has more trust within the republican caucus right now but a similar scenario so i do expect more pushback from conservatives. >> what's timeline what does it hit the floor and see votes on it? >> rule committee meets this afternoon to essentially prep it for floorrn debate that will be interesting to watch because you have -- you know, a couple of conservatives on that panel who will have to, you know, either vote for or against putting us on the floor so for example mr. roy is on the rule of panel. the house is gearing up for a

vote tomorrow, tuesday. so it will be really, really interesting to see reports of this. again, we saw over the weekend house appropriations ranking member rosa come out as, you know, saying this is a bad idea she doesn't -- approve of this sort of two step process. she's upset about the fact that it doesn't include any emergency funding or ukraine. youce know, but i think maybe speaker johnson is definitely going to need democratic help to pass this and it is possible that he could get that. but it sort of will be interesting to watch in the republican conference and democrats will support this. and -- >> do you have a sense to whether or not this will pass. >> not yet it is like i said sort of the best case scenario for in in democrats you know otr week he introduced an israel aid bill that --de made that funding conditional on

cuts to the irs. you know, democrats saw that as sort of picking a fight. you know, why would you condition something as important as israel aid on cutting funding for, you know, the irs? irs is enforcement. this is not that. this is not picking a fight with democrats. the two step idea sure is not particularly popular. but you know, the funding deadlines he's setting up here january 19th, february 2nd are only a couple of weeks apart so it's quite possible that a lot of democrats support this. >> and if you would like to ask a question or make a comment about government funding, you can give us a call. our lines are by party so democrats 202-749-8,000 and one independent 202-749-8002. texting is different. and you can reach us also on facebook and on x.

there were problems with two gop funding bills this last week. what happened, explain what -- why those were polled? >> once speaker took over for mccarthy he made a promise to plow forward in passing a dozen republican appropriation bills. he had some initial success there on some of the easier bills. but as we've gotten, you know, through the weeks a lot of problems that were plaguing mr. mccarthy are plaguing mr. johnson and it is that you j have this -- you know really unruly republican conference that just can't coalesce around these bills. you know, for example, the transportation housing bill supposed to come up for a vote and they have to pull it because you have members who sit in and around northeast corridor saying that they couldn't stomach a billion dollarsas in if you funs

for amtrak on the other hand you have conservatives saying that they want to get rid of amtrak altogether. so you had some of the congressman tom cole oversees that bill saying like i've got eight or ten members on both sides telling me they don't want to support this. i have to get two of them to vote for this bill. so those problems are still, you know, in existence -- financial services bill, last week which is typically not a very controversial bill, ended up falling apart because you have democrats saying you have conservatives says we -- this includes gsa in this bill and gsa will fund new fbi headquartersey or a d.c. related abortion issue that moderates have a hard time with so it speaks to mr. speaker's challenge where you have so many members in different fractions of the conference that can't support some of these bills and

it is really not going to get easier withh this idea of passig these 122 bills which will never become law by the way -- it's not going to get any easy your for him. >> what's happening on the senate side? they gaflt back in later today. they've -- what are they plans regarding a continuing resolution? >> right senate will be interesting to watch today. the senate is expected to take its first procedural vote later thisis afternoon around 5:30 on basically a vehicle for a continuing resolution so they don't have a continuing resolution yet it. is just sort of getting procedural gears in motion to pass one before the november 17th deadline. i think what's interesting is like we were just talking about -- the cr that speak or johnson introduced is kind of

pallettable and senate democratic aid left the door open for senate democrats to support this. they said -- you know, this is a -- not a necessarily a bad thing. he's not looking for any cuts. he's comfortable with handling, you know, funding for the pentagon in that second so january is the deadline and democrats are woke that and what is interesting today is -- does this vehicle i guess the vote to sort of, you know, proceed to the cr vehicle in the senate. does it succeed? because it's possible that it won'te and senate, senators wil just sort of be watching to see what speaker johnson can do tomorrow as it is clear that he can pass something to the senate they might not wait their time in advantaging the vehicle if m >> are two sides talking? are senator schumer and speaker johnson collaborating at this point or working independently?

>> for the most part i -- am not believed to any negotiations. i think as we've seen a serious negotiations -- i think as we saw with mr. mccarthy a lot hinges on whether they are able to get throughar the house so in a lotf ways senator leaders are waiting to see what speak or johnson can do and if it looks like something that's accept to believe the senate, then that's great. they canac move forward with th. but you know senator majority leader chuck schumer wanted to be prepared with a stock up funding program whys theyen play to that i take that procedural e this afternoon. >> i'll put up on the screen again the house republican stop gap spending measure. and just kind of get your anything surprising there we've got yunding for agencies covered by military construction, v.

v.a. ag energy bill that's to januaryy 19th. there's funding for agencies covered by the other eight bills go a little longer february 2nd you mention pentagon is part of that and extending current spending levels. were you surprised at especially that piece about extending current spending levels without cuts? >> yes. i was surprised by that. i think speaker johnson had even floated the idea of pursuing some cr cuts that is something that has -- right flank really wanted. so to extend current funding levels this is pretty much a aside from the fact that he wants to do this in two -- buckets, this is a pretty straightforward continuing resolution this is something that, you know, democrats would probably introduce on their own. that being said, huge caveat there's no aid for israel. there's no aid for ukraine. there's no emergency funding whatsoever. that's a big problem for democrats and it is a big problem for probably a lot of

republicans as well. who think -- you know funding every day that goes by i guess that we're not doing something for israel or ukraine makes it less likely that congress can really get it together. but -- you know, as we've said the first four bills that have a january 19th deadline, setting outside house republican issues with funding some of those four bills s would hypothetically be some of the easier ones to negotiate with the senate. you know whether that bares out to be true, obviously, there aren't a lot of spending issues right now. in congress -- yout know, remains to be seen. but heastieing up first four and then giving two extra weeks to do some of the hardest work so it is an interesting structure and it will be interesting to see how itti plays out. >> all right let's tiewk callers patrick is in florida on the independent line. hi patrick. >> well -- hi thanks for taking my call. there's not a republican state

in this country that doesn't -- florida budget for federal money and comes from west virginia and state budget is 45 billion, 9 billion of that is federal money. that should -- [inaudible conversations] 150 to 250 billion a year and israel funding -- [inaudible conversations] any picture of israeli flag day that's where israelis were marching through the street yelling death to all arabs. they elected the butcher of beirut -- [inaudible conversations] >> patrick you are cutting in and out i'm afraid your line is not that good. were you able to get negative from that katelyn otherwise federal funding for states and i guess the issues around that? >> right well it is sort of

worth noting that we have shutdown sites several times year over whether it is considered a pretty small part of the federal overall budget. so the funding that we're talking about with this particular, you know, a shutdown deadline is just discretionary funding so it is really like funding for all of the federal agencies across, you know, the government. but things it doesn't touch on include like social security spending, medicare, some of the biggest drivers of the debt and the deficit aren't impacted by this. so when we're having these fights, you know we're talking about a very small party of the federal budget but you know certainly i think you're right that a lot of this money ends up flowing to states for a number of different reasons. and for programs things like but again -- we keep having these -- crazy spending fights over very small part of the federal budget. sm what's the mood within the

gop conference within the house? people have been talking aboutis there's a honeymoon period for mike johnson is it over or is he still in that period? >> this will be a huge week for him, and his ability to pass on the floors. will say a lot, sort of about his -- the first real big early test of his speakership. again, mccarthy was kicked out of the speakers office because he teamed up with democrats the path of a continuing resolution and staved off a shut down and doesn't regret that. he would do it again shutting down government is not an effective way to get what you want. speaker johnson is kind of prpsessing proposing same thing here breaking it up into two buckets avoids what republicans -- loathe this is omnibus and bills and roll them into one giant package and for years lawmakers

have been complaining about getting one sided with the huge piece of legislation that they have to pass at the last minute and there's no time to read it and it's, you know, loaded up like a christmas tree and all of that r stuff. so my breaking it up into two trying to say like we're not doing things as normal like i listen to you this is my idea for addressing those concerns. but nota including any spending cuts you know that is going to be a problem for conservatives so it will be really interesting to see among republicans who can support this and who simply can't. andbl what they're going to cut speak oret johnson some slack ty said they're going to -- it is starting to see some of these republican spending bills in a separate sale on the floor so in that respect they're not cutting him some slack but comes to keeping government open it will be really interesting to see does he end up having same outcome as speaker mccarthy and able to move on?

i think he'll probably be able toll move on i think everybody is tired -- as they don't want to keep doing this over and over again. but you know famous last words i guess we'll see. >> let's take a look at what connecticut democratic senator chris murphy said yesterday on "meet the press" about johnson laddered approach. let's start right there with this bill, this is a two-tiered bill put forward by the newly installed house speaker mike johnson will you support it? >> so first of all this is no way to run a railroad we shouldn't be in the position of having to pass multiple continue resolutions and in the senate we've been able to find bipartisan agreement on a budget. that not only funds what the country needs -- but gets money to partners around the world who are in desperate need of american support. listen, we cannot have a government shutdown this weekend certainly not whiles we're facg these exsen scial crises for our friends in vennel ukraine.

i don't like this laddered cr approach. it looks gimmicky to me but i'm open and the priority has to be keeping government open, and i think this is a moment where reasonable people in the senate that's why most of the reasonable people are these days. have to make sure that we are not -- making the perfect the enemy of the good i don't like what house is talking about. but i'm willing to listen. >> i hear you saying you're not a yes yet but you're not a no. what do you need to get to yes on this piece of legislation? >> well we're going proceed in the senate on a clean cr we have gimmicks without ladders, it doeses worry me that the house process requires you to come back and deal with half the budgets on one day and half the budgets on another date that sound to me like a recipe for failure but willing to listen to the case that they're making i would much rather do what senate is doing pass a cr that keeps government open to the same date. >> quickly before we move on

does this bill make it more or less likely that there will be a shutdown? >> listen i don't think anybody can predict what happens in the house of representatives today that place is a dumpster fire right. now and until we get reasonable thoughtful leadership that prioritizes bipartisan cooperation in the house, every single day is going to be a bit of a nightmare for the american people. >>wi katelyn any comments on th? ..... , he is not a yes or a no. he is an appropriate a nose spending and he knows cr's. he is very steeped in the notion of coming up with supplemental funding for israel and ukraine. he is a key lawmaker to pull on something like this. the fact that he is not dismissing it out of hand says a lot. i think it says a lot. the senate is going to move

forward with its own thing. it will be interesting to see if that goesoe anywhere. i do democrats like senator murphy are very open to supporting this idea projects are right cutler and new hampshire democrat good morning. >> good morning. my comment is, we should never be in the situation again. it seems like congress just can't get their act together. it is so very partisan. history tells us, the republican party has driven up this national debt that we have and that's often not mentioned and now they're concerned with funding so it's a very interesting scenario i am kind of disappointed in the whole thing. we should be report supporting ukraine in israel.

but basically our country is broke. and we have to realize that. >> caitlyn? >> guest: you you echo the concerns a lot of americans have and c frankly a lot of people in washington to. it is insane to have this fight multiple times a year the federal budget process is essentially broken. congress does not followt it. we blow to the end of the fiscal year routinely end up with these year end holiday insane government funding fights where everyone thanks the governments way to shut down for a couple of weeks and the knock on what it doesn't. spoke to a lott of people feelg this is no way to do business a lot of lawmakers feel this is no way to do business. l there's been a legislation to the effect to make sure a shutdown can never even happen.

that legislation has amendment votes but has not gone anywhere. i think folks are sick and tired of having this fight over and again. as you said were not doing anything for israel or ukraine this is a major priority for members of congress. this is a major international crisis in both respects. this fight is going to continue feven if this keeps pass this week that's really not going away.el folks are deathly sick as politics as usual. >> the crs have become the rule rather than the exception for the budget was only passed on time maybe once in recent memory. as anything is operated as normal i think the last time i'll funding do not quote me on this and think the lesson all funding bills passeds on time with something the 1990s they

do excellent work on keeping track of these things. it's been a really long time since the pearl process was normal. as you said crs are part of the rule. for the last few years have been reporting on this subject we end up with a giant government funding package at christmas that might not bear itself out this year. that will be interesting to watch. folks are tired. . emma when will overspending be addressed? what endgame is going to be used to pay it down? quickset is a great question. the debt is $33 trillion at this point it's grown tremendously over the last decade nothing serious has been done to reign it in.

democrats and republicans have an ideological difference on what is the breaking point. how much debt is too much debt locally nobody knows when this is there has not been any thing in a substantial way. republicans talking about the need for some bipartisan fiscal commission plexus is the debt commission were talking about question of what's happening with that? quickset sounds like there's interest in forming one. right now you have some republicans on the house budget committee that havedg sort of fm their own little working group to talk about that. whether or not one is it's not a new idea this is something that has been done before progress has not worked before? >> no. [laughter]

you can send a short term yes i was in a couple of years. we are looking at decades out. something aggressive needs to be done and the long-term a lot of folks would argue. everybody in washington likes to say it's an easy solution in a bipartisan panel, committee, working group to tackle without doing anything substantial. it could absently happen. whether or not that source or rate and long-term. iwe have long-term issues beyod discretionary spending social security, medicare. those are things that have to be taken care of in the very near term like in the next 10 years. but this notal really on the tae for discussion now. >> host: nelson is a republican in pembroke pines florida good morning too.

>> good morning i hope you can hear me okay. >> yes we can go ahead. >> caller: have been watching what's going on the current speaker in the last speaker and it seems to me that both of them were acting in a responsible and auteur manner trying to take into consideration the various opposing factions and congress and particularly the house of representatives. i think that mr. johnson is doing the best that he can. hey is it taking into consideration numerous aspectsn of what is going on. trying to find israel. at the same time being rejected by president biden which to me it makes no sense. i think mr. johnson is up to now

anyway, a pretty good speaker. as responsible and should be given a break perhaps the members of the house of representatives could themselves to be a little bit more responsible and take into consideration congress is not a monologue entity where everyone thanks the same. your thoughts and thank you. >> it is a good point. you noted speaker johnson and speaker mccarthy are kind of doing what they are supposed to do. a lot of folks don't think it should be criminalized for republicans after work with democrats to keep the government open. what he is proposing to keep the government open right now will almost certainly need help from democrats. it's a pretty measured idea all things considered democrats are

not a fan of putting the government. it is reasonable for him to want to reach across the aisle and work with democrats to keep the e government open. that being said at such a hyper politicized moment that kind of thing is frowned upon within the republican conference. you should never have to lean on the other side to do things like that. but that being said in a lot of ways speaker mccarthy lost his gavel for personal reasons as much as apolitical. this is not just about government funding. this isng also about congressman matt gaetz and there's been a lot in writing to the fact he has sort of a personal grudge

against mccarthy that boiled over in frustration and led to his ouster from the speaker's office. i just had speaker johnson's been given a little more grace to see how plays out that he will compete to keep the government open will to be wille repercussions for that question ever is in maryland hi deborah. >> good morning i just want to point out for all of the people out there that want to make america great again respect to the budget back what america was great to were in place when the taxes were much much higher you're probably too young tobl remember whose over a 90% tax rate in the 50s when canada came in they reduced it 70% i oi know the guys that no one paid with taxes because the loopholes the rates are just much lower. the other thing i wanted to say

that was in place during that period was democrats controlled both the house and thes senate. virtually 90% of the time. again you're probably too young for him over that there were no shutdown crises there is no annual stretch to default on tho debt. there were no in case of the tax thing there is no discussion of the debt that i remember what are the child is born 1949. and until reagan started coming and it started slight slashing taxes debt became a big issue. i want to point those things out and think about that. you had none of these problems there were other problems, the vietnam war, civil rights, et cetera he did not have this over budget and debt. there were discussions certainly but not like this. okay thank you.

>> definitely raises an interesting point for a lot of fiscal issues like finding the government or the debt limit over the last few decades have been increasinglysi weaponize it has become something that's basically routine. as we said a few decades ago this was not the norm and now it is the status quo and help folks operate. and not to tee up another scenario for things to go haywire but if you are looking forward obviously a lot is going to hinge on the 2024 election. who controls the white house and the house and the senate. 2025 is going to be a huge year for some of these issues we have another debt limit deadline coming up. we had thet. expiration of a lot of the trump tax cuts enacted in

2017. republicans depending upon what the control and government are going to seek to be really aggressive about how they handle those two issues. the be a new war of the federal government and debt and deficit. 2025 is definitely something to pay attention topa in unfortunately lb another generation of continual weaponization for both sides to get what they want and often the republican party more than parto democrats for. >> are budget and appropriations for politico you can find her work at politico.com. thanks so much. quick sense for having me. it ♪ ♪ >> tonight marks he spent series partnership with the library of congress books that shaped america. free to choose the book was written in 1980 shortly after developing that television

series by the same name strongly argus or free-trade, lower taxes limited government regulation and school choice. a bestseller free to choose continues to spark debate today in 1976 milton freedman won the nobel prize for economics was an advisor to british prime minister margaret thatcher and president ronald reagan who presented him with the presidential medal of freedom in 1988. california author milton freedman a biography will join us to discuss the book watch books that shaped america we retreat free to choose. on c-span, see stand out or are the latest. also scan the qr code built into our companion podcast you can learn more about the authors of the book feature.

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