[applause] live sunday third on in-depth author uc barkley law professor joins a book tv to talk and take calls about the u.s. supreme court of presidential power the bush and trump administration and more. includes crisis and command, defender and chief, donald trump's fighter presidential power the recently published politically incorrect guide to the supreme court. join in the conversation with the phone call, facebook comments and taxa. in depth live sunday december 3 at noon eastern on book tv, on cspan2. weekends on cspan2 are an intellectual feast. every saturday american history tv documents america's story and on sunday book tv brings you the

latest in nonfiction books and authors. funding for cspan2 comes on these television companies and more including cox. it's extremely rare. but friends don't have to be. when you are connected you are not alone. along with these television companies support cspan2 as a public service. >> good evening everyone and welcome. i am co-owner politics and prose along with my wife. [applause] it is very exciting for all of us to be hosting cassidy hutchinson who is here to talk of course about her new book enough. but let me first notes this evening's event is a joint

effort at george washington university in politics and prose. the university and bookstore have been working together for some time now and putting on events. i would like to think -- mixed thank the staff for help in making this event possible. i would be surprised if there's anyone here not familiar with cassidy's captivating and pivotal appearance before the house select committee investigated generally six assault on the capitol. her stunning testimony early last year as a formal special assistant in the white house who personally witness the goings on at the highest levels around donald trump provided vivid and damning details about just how far the president and senior aides are willing to go to deny the results of the 2020 election and maintain power.

watching kassidy testify, the rest of us could only imagine at thatdi time what incredible pressure she had been under not to tell all she knew about what had gone on to what incredible courage and patriotism it had taken to go public with her story. while, her book now reveals just what she wentt through. and later remarkably swift rise in washington to the upper reaches of trumps white house. only toly become duplicity and wrongful behavior that she saw.

once been deeply under trumps weight cassidy faced a choice between loyalty to the president and loyalty to the country. wrenching as that crisis of conscience was for her, her book makes clear that going through it ultimately got a stronger sense of herself. what's a lead efforts to hold trump to account jamie raskin. [applause] a constitutional law expert constitutional raskin has represented. [applause] [cheering]

i just wanted to say a couple more lines but obviously you all know who he is teresa constitutional law expert has represented rounds eighth marylh district since 2017 served on the generate six select committee he has authored several books on his most recent if you have not read it you should come as most recent was unthinkable early 21 who agreed the suicide of his sondi will ld the second impeachment proceedings against strawberry glaze andd gentlemen please welcome but you already have it. on with the show. [applause] >> sorry about thatt we did not mean to crush the introduction. we were a motion to go in.

well hello gw. thank you policies and prose for doing this. thank you kassidy for suggesting me i sure interrogator today. [laughter] >> it would not be the first time. [laughter] [applause] >> thank you for agreeing to be here. and also all of you coming out tonight your means a tremendous amount to me. i appreciate you all. [applause] >> alright you have written an extraordinary and riveting captivatinge book about 1000 questions for you. as a number one "new york times" bestseller.

[applause] already they've run out of books. one thing that's very cool about the book is there no index in it. >> i avoided that intentionally. >> my dad used to say the people in washington reading books and backwards where they start at the index, they look for their name and see if they are there. that actually have to read it. because if you want to know if you are in cassidy's book you have to read the book to figure itlo out. look i want to salute you on the achievement of doing it. i know how hard it is to write a book this is been a tough and grueling time for you in a lot of ways. this is a book when you finish you wish a lot more had been said not a lot less which is true of most political books. so i got a whole lot of questions for you.

the personal stuff in this book is as fascinating or even more fastening than the political stuff. and so i want to start some of the personal stuff. you write that your family did nott talk about politics growing up get you grew fascinated by politics and in 2012 it was the romney/obama race. that's when he checked up the debate you investigated a little bit and thought you would be come a republican at that point. give us a glimpse into what your thinking was? lex i can read the smirk on your face. [laughter] >> over the ideas and images that motivated you at that point? people are influenced by their own family in terms of how they end up registering to vote or

thinking about politics but what grabs you about romney and the gop at that time? >> i wishso there was a straightforward answer to it. going back to the way when i was growing up, my uncle joe was one of most formative people in my life. he was in the army when he was really the only person i knew my family was very skeptical about the government and did not have strong feelings about the government. that sentiment in my mind but i had this man, my uncle joe he could go into the military so i had an idea public service and i was fascinated by it some sort of wanted to go into public service from a young age my self but not knowing what that might look like. so during the 2012 election we were assigned to watch one of the debates that i remember watching the first debate and listening to a former president barack obama and mitt romney go

back and forth. it was not one particular issue and ' wish it was but it wasn't one particular issue that stood out to me as much as i liked what mitt romney was saying with the party agenda as a whole and it made sense to me at the time i think i was 15 years old. [laughter] but it's hard to keep reminding myself how young you are you are exactly the age of our youngest daughter you're 26 now. and what is remarkable when a lot of these events were taking place when your 2425 you were by far the youngest person in the white house and you are also the adult in the room most often. [laughter] i got another question by your childhood. you described in a very delicate way a childhood that had some chaos and instability in it. i think it was when your mom

decided to move to indiana. you will with your brother jack and your mom i think your dad had not come out to join you yet for a while. but you described how at recess syndicates and go out and i play only stayed in and talked with the teacher. it seems like your entire life you've had an extraordinary identification with older people who have taken such an interest in you. from market meadows to president trump. your professors to listen cheney, matt gaetz although i think that's kind of different. [laughter] [inaudible] [laughter] so now you can get as psychoanalytical as you want to or not at all.

have youou noticed that qualityn yourself? have you always felt more comfortable with older people than your peers? and you've also been intellectually precocious part of what you describe is being bored what's going on with thest standard to learn for teachers is much as you could and always looking for opportunities toic study it more deeply specifically government and public policy and politics. expose two prongs with them. one i was raised in an environment where privacy was power. i think that also carried through my adult life. there's still a great element to privacy and people always have the right to remain private. it was different than the way i was raised we very much kept to ourselves.d >> and that came for your dad mostly? >> predominantly but even when my parents got divorced it was

ingrained in us. i had to really close friends during that but when they moved i did have other friends my age probably late middle school i fit really for the first time i could identify and communicate better with adults. which i resented i was also very tall i've not grown since sixth grade. it was on the other side of it to i felt more intrigued by adult conversations not just in what they were discussing but i was more challenging i could have more thought-provoking conversations with adults more so than people my own age. that's not completely universal to have been incredible people in my age group. >> that leads us immediately to a question several people asked

one person wrote how did some with your incredible intelligent, soul, heart end up with the trump crew? [laughter] that referred to gets they don't to jump the gun on that. you had a fight with your dad that struck me in the book where he is watching the apprentice which was his favorite show and you said i wish you spend as much time on your family are as you spend with donald trump and the apprentice that was a remarkable moment. what we should take away from the conversation you had about that? what made you think about donald trump? >> i was in fourth grade is 10 years old. quick short 10 years old and the apprentice was on. i should probably fact check that. [laughter] that was towards the era were my parents were on the verge of getting divorced or at least

progressing towards them. how to process this too. my father, we have a very strained relationship now and even growing up. it was very informative in my life for better or worse i would not be here today without a lot of the lessons for better or worse that i learned from him for. >> he tell you to be a warrior. >> yes and again up to the readers whatever you want to make of that. he's a very complicated man but i love him and he loves me the way he knew how to love me. with the apprentice had this very faint idea of who donald trump was a group in new jersey a lot ofld people have sort of d an idea for donald trump was my father owned his own business he owned a landscaping company. critics not four seasons. [laughter]

my father was always looking for the next best business venture. and he put donald trump on a pedestal as a man who built an empire and now it looked back more recently in the last year. [laughter] but i did not grow personally idolizing trunk but a group around people who idolize trump as a business mentor idolized the mentality behind that and behind what he hadad said. so what he was running for president i didn't take it seriously at first but to it was not this, i did not have a four dimensional view of what a trump presidency would look like based off of my fourth grade apprentice. >> owes her first encounter with donald trump when your dad was watching him? >> it was a member also when i was in middle school or high school we go down to atlantic city sometimes what was the

trump hotel for the trump casinos my stepfather is my chosen father i call him paul would talk about donald trump he was sort of a household name but not where i was pushed to adore him myself. it was almost a sense of premonition this is man i sort of know who he is being taught is incredible businessman and american giant. >> when they make the movie of your book he will appear as a cameo in the first scenes. >> obese aerobic works why would that be essential person in your family should put it? >> after my parents got divorced a lot of times i felt like it was my mom and i against the world they had a complicated divorce i did choose, writing

this book was difficult. i'm not goodyc in psychoanalysis for meat my life was my life and it was sort of like survival mode which i didn't appreciate or realize at the time. but we got by day by day they had as strained relationship but i took the role as the intermediary. she works at a very low paying job she depended on him financially. we were trying to keep that relationshiper there so her andi meant for straight men 11 but the years after through high school graduation we relied on each other as emotional support but also support for families to get by. >> you made a trip to washington, d.c. and felt an immediate intense affinity with the city in an ethical sense in

a spiritual sense you knewpa wod be an important partti of your destiny. what was that you saw in washington when you came here? how old were during the trip? >> second grade. [laughter] was second grade going into third grade. >> she has an amazing memory she does not forget anything which makes her witness on capitol hill. [laughter] christ you're welcome. so my uncle joe and my aunt had just moved from indiana to washington d.c. come back fromis afghanistan and moved to work at the pentagon they arrive late in the night and had an apartment crystal city in the balcony overlooks the skylight them over the next morning waking up and lookingnd out and just feeling mesmerized with the city's byline we had not got into the city at later

that day we did a walk on the washington mall starting at the lincoln memorial ending at the capitol. the first time what i call it na gravitational pull was when i saw the washington monument. i don't know why i refer ever been this imprint in my minds. >> psychoanalysis. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] [inaudible] brexit passed the washington monument i have a picture because it's quite embarrassing i startedan crying i looked at y mom until they wouldn't do state we moved around a lot when i was a child i said q. week moved to washington d.c.? i really want to move to washington d.c. i remember it where at the capitol it was that moment that clicked for me we

had this idea of public service i been to a city again i was very young but no idea what it look like but i felt like i belong to every time i would visit d.c. and leave it be a very emotional experience for me it's like how can i get back? >> for the first person in your family to go to college. >> i was. >> you and to christopher newport in virginia not far from d.c. tell us about how you actually got involved in republican politics and government service customer for the remarkable things about the book is how many of the people who are key actors in the drama of generally six and the insurrection in the attempted coup for people you had actually met before or you knew before. >> my formative years and make very young career in d.c. yes. jim jordan was somebody coming

kevin mccarthy admit nancy pelosi you had a story about her and so on so how did you get involved? how did you make that rapid ascent into politics that you actually knew these players? >> after my software during my sophomore year in college i worked my freshman summer going into software your work through sophomore year i worked the summer after freshman year end year havethe goal i need to spee next few summers interning so i could get a job in washington frequents the college kids are taking notes by the way. by foot. >> for better or for worse take it with a grain of salt. but i remember us right after winter break sophomore year went to library it locked myself in a study room and i filled out an applicationn for every single house republican office and sent them out. no idea what i was doing i got

several interviews including one in leadership with the then majority whip steve scalise and was offered a stake in the internship with majority whip steve scalise for the summer of 2017. and when i started working there i started work with the member services team they are in charge of managing the relationships with all house republicans. i was the intern. i got to know the majority of the republican conference that summer. i think that sort of set me up for the future opportunities include the next summer when i interned in the office of legislative affairs in the white house. >> who hired you that first time in which the white house? >> mark short was the director of legislative affairs at the

time. >> he also comes to play a role on january 6. >> mark short was the director of legislative affairs when i interned in legislative affairs then when i was hired full-time in the summerma of 2019 mark sht became the vice president and chief of staff. >> so let's come back to that question my friend asked which is how did someone like you who comes through both in person and in the book you have written as honest, and decent and loyal and very oldld law-abiding come to anything that's asked of you by a president who is, i'm speaking it editorial here on my part totally

disloyal, totally dishonest totally deceptive, duplicitous, and trustworthy and so on. how does that happen that's a remarkable story and it is an important story for us toin understand and democracy. >> read the bookod everybody. i will preface it with. >> i read the book. [laughter] and i love the book. >> are to briefly talk about one moment i did vote for donald trump in 2016. i didn't put all that much thought into it. i did not think he had a chance of winning i was dating somebody at the time he was a republican and did not like donald trump. [laughter] i was not fully what i called team trump or a believer in the agenda. but i i went to the trump's 100th day rally in harrisburg, pennsylvania the end of april

and it wasn't so much the policy and again i try to be very candid and vulnerable in the book there's my fault so i have a lot of them. it was not so much about the policy at the time. i was at this rally i had heard about this effect it has a new u go to a rally you feel close to him him standing there and i'm lolooking around and i'm looking at all of these people who are mesmerized by him and one had tears in their eyes. looking at thispe man but they'e all people it felt like i grew up around my parents voted for the first time in 2006 for trump maybe he is the politician that can change things. maybe he is that person everyone is saying he is. but at that time my goal was not

to work for donald trump. i didn't want to work in legislative affairs i interned in legislative affairs. at the end of the interned ship out my goals go back to capitol hill. i was offered a a job but regardless of our politics here and i told the story in a way right try to tilt in real time were i felt how might mind us working at the time versus how i came to be where i'm at now. but when i took the full-time job in legislativeve affairs, it was an honor to serve in the executive branch. i realize it may not be the most flattering answer i was honored and i think anyone who has the opportunity to serve in governmentch whether it's the legislative branch or wherever it is you should take it it's an invaluable experience. i was not a partisan it was a slow progression to the point i was the public servant than i was the loyal foot soldier. >> got to that was a true

directory you are on there so much patriotism in this book like when you see the flag, you see washington, you see the monuments are carried with being in government and being able to serve in the executive branch, right? did you have misgivings or second thoughts about anything going on at the white house before january 6? like for example there is a moment when amy koning bear was being nominated to the supreme court was there ever any discussion about the fact mcconnell and the gop had blocked my constituent american garland from even getting a hearing 11 months before the end of the term and then in two months before the end of trumps term they railroaded through mrs. waterford or whatever her name is. they got her through but did that give you pause did anything

like that give you pause? >> that's a broad question. there were a lot of moments that did give me pause i want to be delicate the way you answer this. i work in legislative affairs i was promoted to work in the chief of staff office. because i had developedth a relationship with then congressman mark meadows. but when i took the job with marco was very clear with him i was working for the office of the chief of staff not chief of staff mark meadows saw myself working for the institution of the individual there is a clear and distinct difference to me. at the time i was not fully aware. there's a very strong sense of loyalty in the trump administration. i found myself loyal to the esgovernment, the job and the

office i had. at some point those lines became blurred and at some point very, very blurred. so that being said there were things that give me pause especially during the coronavirus pandemic we'd go to the hill to me with leadership in speaker pelosi and chuck schumer. but the way i saw my job inside a job to do whatever i had to do to get that job done i was not there negotiatingro policy i was there trying to provide counsel to the principles in the way i so myd job was the better job i do the morris sound counsel i can provide them with the better this will go as a whole if that answers the question. >> you talk about covid a lot about mixed messages being sent the strangest signals too. >> disinfectant getting injected, yes. [laughter] >> you all ended up getting it of course you got it after trump

got it? >> there's no good time to get coronavirus let me be clear. but at the moment i caught coronavirus right after novembed the campaign p for. >> loyal to a fault. >> cited ten-day little recess while all of the election stuff is going underway so i come back and iin am in the middle of what dhec is going on. let's talk about that. what were the warning signs for you pre-generally six about what's going on? you record this a number of closed door meetings were close out of. but did you have an inkling there were various streams of coo it insurrection leading up to an explosion on january 6? >> at the time and at first so now i'm talking mid november

2020 throughro mid december 202. at that time, no. because at that point in my mind we were filing lawsuits and for the record to i think any candidate that thanks the election results are close enough has a right to file lawsuits. it is accepting what the lawsuits say and you start to defy the rule of law's and he gets a little fickle. so at first and also mr. trump before the election had talked to me sarcastically on air force one one day sick the democrats still the election from us we fly to florida with me i had no idea how far is going to go. >> are lots of indications and you help the tip us off to some of these were trump was saying

things walkingng around and sayg i can't believe i lost to this guy. there is recognition. quick to get to a point he would concede and be defiant about it but no idea who gets to the point it would be i was a december 18, 2020 was the first real turning i look back now and i see how things lined up and went over it in my mind. december 18 was the night there there's an oval office meeting was innocent mike flynn. mike flynn patrick byrne, sidney powell there discussing invoking martial law or the insurrection act as a first moment for me in the days after words it kept getting worse sounding. but again, we are still dealing

with a lot of issues that were not just january 6.wo some people were trying to work on the peaceful transfer it wasn't like my days were only consumed with generally six things. but december 18 was the turning points were things are kind of getting a little. >> your mom who is a hero of mine in this book anyway called you and said don't go to work on generally six. >> was december 19 the tweet was sent out there will be on generally six i have some family members who would associate themselves with some of the more extreme what i call the more extreme right wing groups such as qanon.

it was early january but from speaking with mya family with never had a very in depth conversation she knew a lot of people coming to d.c. for this rally. it's relevant we also have one in georgia on generally fourth. but she was really nervous about the rally beforehand up until the night before and morning of she tried to convince me not to go to work but for me i had a job to do i had to go. >> yes. >> won these german dramatic moments in your testimony for the selectmen and generally six is when you described trumps reaction to the secret service insistence that people coming to his rally which was part of the warm up rally for the march and

the big scene at the capitol, their determination people have to go through the mags tell us that story if you would from your perspective about what exactly happened. that was the moment that was electrifying practice electrifying for me that morning too. this of the first moments where i was thinking holy crab. >> explained that. you talk about the mags a lot inthe election. leading up to l it. >> is always an issue during the campaign and o now they are the baseline. >> that's short for h magnetometers because she will have to note magnetometers thank you all. i know you're all here for us i appreciate the fact you're willing to listen for.dn >> sake event itself to be starting late because people are going to the magnetometers i heard kathy say tell the takedown. [laughter]

[laughter] is a private moment. [laughter] on that the debt i testify or in the cargo into the capitol and awthey said to my lawyers i am e witness take me back now. [laughter] [laughter] dark humor. very serious topic. especially today is the approaching next election cycle which came like that. so i got to the white house that morning were driving through all these crowds of trump supporters this is sort of weird i go into the deputy chief of staff's office who receive security updates he starts reading the e-mail he had been receiving about what this secret surf deemed some of which are clearly weapons things like flagpoles which may be not weapons but a

problem. secret service had seen guns on people. so we get down that day i mentioned the magnetometers were as an campaign because mr. trump always went the rally space to be full for pictures it was not that day because all the people who were trying to get through the mags had quote unquote weapons they could not get to the magnetometers. the former president had said take them down there not here to hurt me take them away they can march the capitol from here. thankfully the men and women are secret service new regardless if they were there for him or not they had to stay out. >> yes. >> take is just a little bit into your mind about what was taking place over the course of

the day. you are presumably watching on tv was taken place of the capitol. you saw the vice president fleet use of the house and the senate evacuate. >> a lot of the hearings to i had trouble deciphering what was televised at the time and somethings were televised later. it will never be makes me emotional to thinknk about. because i felt so helpless that day because i have such a connection with the institution of congress and i knew so many of you so many staffers and seeing i describe it i can sort of like watching a bad car accident being in a bad car accident it starts to happen there's nothing you can do to stop it.

corky saw the officers being beaten and bloodied. >> some or on twitter. and it being back at the white house we were at the ... we did the security and the capitol capitolpolice were overrun withe rioters. the president still wanted to go to theol capitol. to get back to the white house despite his resistance. simply sitting at my desk and i'm back and forth but every minute of that date felt like a lifetime we were waiting for the next bad thing to happen. once they actually got through, that is a win i think how real it was hitou me even though i st of salt going in that direction for a while but my mind immediately went to i do not want to fare longer but it

reminded me that writers don't know who most of these members of congress they don't of the journalists are sitting through tojournalists are the enemy of e people. to me at the time they would have had no balance i was fearful members of congress and anybody for. >> they were chanting hank mike pence they know exactly who he was. >> and who speaker pelosi was. i think jim jordan would have been theyn. wouldn't have recors jim jordan. it was frightening being on the inside knowing bits and pieces of what was happening at the capitol and also knowing there was not much i could do to stop it was a helpless feeling something that will always live with me. she have a follow-up.

>> lawyers play a prominent role in your story here. you were in desperate search of a lawyer. you have little or no money. you do not come from a family with a lot of wealth your savings were meager you could have given everything you had for a day's worth of legal services in washington and you're looking around for a lawyer who would do it for pro bono or love her boxer put me on a payment plan. >> you did not want to end up being a bought and paid for witness under the trump employee. and yet you ended up with a trump lawyer. that'sle a chapter i recommend highly to people in lawol schoos to read about what it's really like to meet a lawyer. so you ended up with some great lawyers. >> one is b here mr. bill jorda. >> bill jordan is here.

[applause] but that is the favorable of the story start out bad because you didn't end upo going with a lawyer who is clearly from trump world i may be even went to school with this lawyer. and you were told to limit your testimony to his few words as possible. if you could not remember every single detail of an episode to say you couldn't recall anything about the episode, right? no you got some instructions howdid you experience that is someone being called to testify? >> this accurate gender is six i was very outspoken in the final

days of the administration that the administration was completely at fault for what happened that day. >> outspoken aware? yes in the white house. it was not a secret my contempt for the fact we were complicit we were the only reason that day happens. >> i think we should clap for that. [applause] thank you. it is a sad. >> washington you get a standing ovation for telling the truth. >> is a big part of the reason i decided to write this book because we are in this crisis of accountability we need to elect leaders to office and hire rvpeople on public service who should not need to be clap for

for telling the truth that comes with the job it c comes with taking the oath. all that being said i want to point this out i do not want district i was still planning to move down to my log with the former president at the time i felt he needed good people surrounding him. i felt i could be a sound voice. that. fell through cap me on payroll mysteriously generosity is not his strong suit so that's a? he kept me on payroll for several months i took that. to decompress and saw how things were unraveling on capitol hill. knowing full well if i were called to testify under subpoena or voluntarily i wanted to be forthcoming to the committee whatever committee had been formed. but when i actually was subpoenaed to testify and start a mad search for an attorney

because in my mind i had been in the trump world which was an advantage and a disadvantage. but i knew accepting something like an attorney from trump world at that juncture might work for 10 months to separate myself very slow sluice on the chart of my back. i would not appear disloyal. it's a form of currency you owe more than just what they expect you to say. all that being said i was served i did have a trump appointed counsel and i didn't receive counsel from that attorney but i also accepted it. i accept responsibility for that. but it also think when we look at the cases as they are unraveling now i think of several of my former college if they weren't my former colleagues several people who are reported too and i know i've trump appointed counsel.

there is a bigger issue here is very fortunate to find my incredible legal counsel who i really credit i don't say this lightly but saving my life. saving my life in steering meet back to the right side of history. >> unmute one or% pro bono. >> one 100% pro bono. [applause] [cheering] and besides that to they offered me and gave me a sense of community and belonging and acceptance i had not known for so long. i'm still so this day i don't feel like i deserve. again i have been very fortunate to be able to tell my story from the other side now but it's not without people like you and alyssa cheney and the committee and my attorneys you gave me that second chance. >> a couple more questions for

you than it going to ask a few more from the audience. because believe it or not we might be running out of time. what was your experience like as a witness on that day? sometimes people describe to me being a witness like watching from the outside they feel a little bit dissociated by it. they feel like it's really happening to someone else. what was your experience of the day for you acquitted yourself remarkably well everybody across the board was totally convinced of your candor and honesty. i think you changed millions of people's minds. [applause] >> thank you. well for starters when i switch

legal counsel i was very clear that i did not want to testify not at all. i want to be completely forthcoming the committee was very generously gave me my transcripts of it line by line ofwe corrected, we added we addd a lot of filler the i knew more than what i let on to be their spelling corrections very, very thorough going back to my old hitranscripts like this is going to be useful to them though use the information to get other witnesses. when ili learned i will be a lie witness i went it was a fear of god. but i did comee around to it slowly and even up until the last minute he had to physically push me out there. i had made peace with that i had

recognized several elements there was someone who had been there who is willing to speak truth to what occurred that day. but not just on generally six but after words too it's two its important for women and little girls to see we are living in a society where and fortunately u, many years my senior pleading the fifth in avoiding all forms of accountability. not to get on the feminist angle but we need more women in government for that reason too. [applause] [cheering] but sitting up at the witness table i was very afraid. very cognizant every move i made could it would beiz scrutinized. but it also had an overwhelming sense of peace because i knew i

was doing the right day i was sitting in front of a dais of people who are in my opinion some of the most moral and ethical politicians and human beings that are in washington in this era. [applause] and on the top of that is mr. raskin. [laughter] [applause] g >> you are great witnesses i said. i was thinking when you testified about mark twain who said if you always tell the truth you never have anything to thremember. some of the people he talked to had to remember what they said last time and so on. you came in with the conviction of truth and that communicated really well. little bittalk a about the future in your future. everybody wants to know what you are going to dupree.

>> me too. [laughter] could you see yourself going into politics? is there a political party that fits you anymore? >> are tricky. to answer your first question, i write now do not see you say go politics. i still believe what i'm doing now cracks it's integral to politics. >> okay just making a separation. probably not the time for me. grix people are asking would you ever run for office yourself? >> i would not say no because i said no to a lot of things in my past including testifying live and look where i am.

i honestly do not have the ability to have that hindsight right now. i think what i am focused on right now is sharing the message in this book which to me is much greater than donald trump. donald trump is an element to the book but if donald trump felt the face off the earth tomorrow there still would be a problem that exists and is still poisoning our political system. i'm a firm believer we need a healthy republican party and a healthy democratic party and i hope that today we could sit here very well thought out debates. [laughter] so i guess i sort of wish sometimes to say i'm jaded if i'm going to go up move

somewhere and what we are facing is dangerous and in my opinion it's may be faced and perhaps in recent american history that does not just require us and congress to pay attention to them. i hope with this book on the platform that i have now i can help open peoples eyes and i hope people will listen. it is important for more ways than just determining the outcome of the next presidential election we are quite literally fighting for the future of our country and the republic too. >> for. >> and democracy onre earth. [applause] we are in experiment nothing here is guaranteed. >> why is your book called enough? >> is a very subtle question. [laughter] cracks very nuanced answer.

short answer was that it touched on briefly earlier. i tried to write the book as i experienced my life and how i got to this point. i tried not to assign adjective to polices, places things or events i try to tell things how i experience them and how his ismentally processing things at the time. straightforward answer with enough is i reached a point where enough is enough it was not enough was enough with my former trump that i reach a point was enough was enough after not being who i was. not fulfilling the public servant and myself who i saw myself coming to d.c. becoming and i had enough of this era of living this lie and i couldn't do it anymore.

there is more nuanced meetings and i leave it up to the reader to interpret some of those. i also think there's one other thing on that to interject another question i also want people to know that their voice alone is enough and it does not require a mass to come out and say enough or say whatever you may say to stick up for yourself. and i'd love to give a shout out to liz cheney i have my incredible team of attorneys but liz cheney was the first person. [applause] extremely courageous individual who has the heart of the founding father and her love for our country is something we should all as well as congressman raskin but it wasas liz who really reminded me i am enough i am enough to not only

seek truth and power but to hopefully create change. we cannot keep surviving as a nation as we are. [applause] some people want to know about that watergate figure to identify with you made a very special friend. >> mr. butterfield. [laughter] yes. the committee had very generouslyi published pages ofy transcript i had a little bit of a mental breakdown when evening. i was able to really read in real time about how far gone i was and i had wanted to get back to the right side of history. i was thinking about watergate there had to be somebody there had to be somebody else out similar role it did not have this consequential role in the hearings that was not a lawyer.

i startedg. googling those who d testified and came across alex butterfield we had nearly identical titles he hadn't written a book is like perfectly testified, he left he did not try to make a name for himself now my face is on the cover. [laughter] did work on this book i ordered several copies of it you can see wish we could pass it around it's a little embarrassing he really was should have seem so obvious but i did not have anybody in my life as in a very dark period of my life almost complete isolation people who was not isolated from or might former friends and trump world who was not being my authentic self with hips. so when i read this book that alex said it works out with bob woodward alex became my friend

in d.c. i feltel like i could relate to him and his journey but also cool he was and he inspired me to start to try to correct portions and find a second chance. there are many people on this journey that i pay tribute to but alex is one he's just another incredible american. it is unfortunate that 50 years after watergate we are in a position weird to you with the results of another crop presidency. >> es. so one person asked a question which was how you have the poison maturity to handle your job and your testimony? because you had not left at that point. trump world. >> during the testimony i was pretty much cut off.

[laughter] cracks weren't they still entertaining the delusion you might watch your words? >> i don't know. i'll leave that question to them. but from my perspective think the moment i retained counsel they had a good exit not that i would testify at life but is willing to be more forthcoming i'd also back channel four a thirdth interview without my former attorney's knowledge of the time. with one of my good friends who hadbeen outspoken about january6 were generally seven forward. so is not probably a big secret although until he switched attorneys they probably expected me too remain loyal too. >> a story about washington how much government really does depend on bright young people who come in and really do the

work. >> not to be little and i'm sure you have incredible staff maybe not as young as i was. >> their younger even. >> everybody rely on staffers. it's important to provide an environment to the staffers really want to aspire to be politicians to lead by example. >> it is an incredible objectow lesson into how it was you in that case it was a young staffers were the ones insisting upon a loyalty to the truth an ethical principle. we might never have known the truth were not for you and other people in a similar situation because the jaded nest as youou put it in the conspiracy of lice was so fierce at the top levels and continues to this day where there still people who believe the big lie although it has been completelyju debunked. >> i think there are people who still believe the big lie those

minds will never change. i think with me coming forward i had to accept there are immovable people but there are people who might believe what he's saying they might believe donald trump is better than joe biden. all i ask is for people to listen to me and listen to people like me. the people who are on the inside slowly worsening people to start to break away and speak the truth. but to listen to people like us who donald trump would not have considered what he calls rhinos. but also see the grave dangers of what we endured at the end and what continues to endure

today. looking at present "truth social" the latest cases are playing out the department of justice is brought the largest case and american history against a former president of the united states and that's a really sad place for us to be in. yet i hope the people listen because in this and next year as all of our responsibilities to speak the truth and speak to people in a way they feel welcome to have those conversations because i know in my position for a while i did want to split away from trump world i saw how terrible it was things we had done were. but is also scared to leave because i felt if i do leave i'm going to be questioned and ridiculed in the people always going to question my intentions which i think to a degree is fine and i welcome that. but we cannot shaming people out of coming forward. >> that is right, that his

rights. that's a beautiful way for us than this. i want to thank you for your moral courage in speaking so candidly and openly about your entire life in your experience and your family and your work and your education want to thank you for your love of our beautiful country and thank you for yoursm patriotism and i want to thank you for your willingness to keep growing and keep learning and remember there's always a home free of the democratic party. [laughter] thank you politics andnd prose. check out her bucket. mr. raskin has another phenomenal book two. [laughter] cracks if you are enjoying american history tv sign up for our newsletter using the qr code on the screen to receive the weekly schedule of upcoming programs like lectures in history, the presidency and more senate for the american history tv newsletter today be sure to

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