exploring the american story, watch american history tv saturdays on c-span2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime i c-span.org/history. >> listening to programs on c-span2 c-span radio just got easier. tell your smart speaker, play c-span radio, and listen to "washington journal" daily at 70 eastern, important congressional hearings and other public affairs events throughout the day and weekdays at 5 p.m. and n today for a fast pace report on the stories of the day. listen the c-span anytime. just tell your smart speaker play c-span radio. c-span, powered by cable. >> weekends on c-span2 are an intellectual feast. every saturday

american history tv documents america's stories and on sundays botv brings you the latest nonfiction books and authors. funding for c-span2 come from these television companies and more including sparklight. >> the greatest town on earth is the place you call home. at sparklight it's our home, too, and right now we are all facing a greatest challenge. that's why sparklight is working around the clock to keep you connected. we are doing ourart so it's easier to do yours. >> sparklight along with these television companies supports c-span2 as a public service. >> so today we're going to be moving from the colonial era which we been talking about into talking about the prelude anyway to the revolution, the tensions that come out of the colonial wars and more than the colonial wars. and so this is a sort of transition class period. were going to be spending the next several weeks talking about the revolution, the ideological

justifications for it, the actual fighting in thehe wake of it, what do we do having all this freedom and not knowing how to set up a democracy. so we will be going in that direction. we just covered the founding of jamestown in massachusetts in the middle colonies, and last time we were talking about how diverse the colonies were getting, not just british, but different people, how much more population, how much they were going, how the economy was booming, and other great awakening with both dividing colonies oneg. from another, or rather people within ther, colonies one from another, but also providing a common experience, right? this iss where we have come fro, where we are going is a revolution. today we are talking wars and talking about tensions. the theme of today is the colonists were whining freeloaders.

getting all the benefits of british citizenship without putting any of the cost. the motherland fought to protect them. they then objected to carry any of the burden for paying their share of the costs of protecting them. siwe are going to talk about wa, the situation at the end of the last war, what the solutions are, including curb the freeloading colonists. just stay with me on this, okay? r over and over and over. by the time you get to george washington, he's telling america to don't get involved in europe. there's always going war to war with each other and so forth and history coming up to the revolution is experienced enough of that. king william's queen ends working. george is war over and over again. different reasons having to do with succession and having to do

with colonial empires. some colonies are really thriving and the nations that own them are enriching themselves. others are jealous of of that. and this is providing extra fuel to the already burning fires of the tensions between the different european nations. so there's a sort of extra of reasons these are happening. they affect the colonies some small degree or another. this is the one that affects the colonies a lot. and in some ways sets the stage for the divisions that going to be talking about. we it the french and indian war. the fighting started, the ohio river valley. in the 70 and 1754, but it officially started and that's why it's called the seven years war. the british and the french are at each other, not just in north

america, but all over the place. this is a very big war, a very costly war in terms of the seven years war and and north america. there's and newfoundland, there's fighting quebec city, montreal, fort niagara in western pennsylvania. the french are winning the british are winning. it's a real contest. one of the key turning points in this war is, the iroquois confederation taking the side the british and in that way turning the tables on the french and allowing the british to succeed and the french back off. and the winnings in this war are tremendous for britain. are the colonists who are mostly settled much in maine maine is a part of massachusetts and it's very sparsely.

but from here on down, what role are they playing? 40% of the people fighting in north america are in fact troops. did the british send an army over? yes. so you've got redcoats who are fighting the sort of trained british army that are fighting, but 40% of those fighting are troops at this time the colonies colonies were contributing. however, the colonial was very informal. let's say. and so our professional troops. that's what's that what won us the war along with the native american allies. what did the colonial troops do? they fought when it was close to their home. they didn't pay when it was further away. when harvest time came, they left the battlefield and went home. harvest and.

so one of the lessons coming out of the seven years war is that going to win a future confer picked. it's going to be the redcoats is going to be our standing our regular army and what's really important is those native american connections that we've got. what were the effects of the seven years war territory? the french controlled all of this territory and claim armed an awful lot of territory all the way down to louisiana. in 1763, in the peace that the seven years war britain gets all of the territory east of the mississippi. this is a huge part of north america. much larger the 13 colonies that we had to with that is to say it's not doubling the size its more than doubling the size of british holdings. so what did we win out of the

seven years war? a massive amount of land, a huge victory. what else are effects of this war? losses, debt. this was a big fought in the caribbean, fought in north america, fought in other on sea and on land. this was a very big war france is in debt. britain is in debt. the losses are, real colonial losses we it's not like we didn't lose people over here. british losses diverging views of what happened. if you're somebody who lives in massachusetts sits and you were fighting up the lake champlain and going to it you have a sense of the way in which you were contribute you were fighting for the british. that's really different from the view in london where they're

saying the key parts of this are the iroquois and army. what this person did fighting over here not really in the field vision so competing of even the experiences that we just went through. so the seven years war is something that like the great awakening affected the entire set of colonies. it's a common experi. all of the colonies fighting against the french were fearing what was going happen on the frontier with native american. so it's bringing us together, but also setting up a little bit of a divide between our perceptions of even how the war was being fought and who was contributing. the british and the colonies. things make sense. so far. do ask questions if if something is unclear, i can unclear.

so what do we do? in 1763, the french settled by ceding all of these territories by the british have all of these territories now and one thing is clear the british to us to british is that things have to change. look what just happened with this war and the lessons from it we can't keep going on the way that we've gone in particular, there are three things that we need to make sure don't happen right now or do three things that have to happen. one is that we cannot have any more fighting. we are in debt. we have had this huge victory. we need to consolidate our gains. we have an empire that is worldwide. now so much territory. we need to make sure that we do not go to war again with the native american tribes in the wye valley. that we're the key part of this fight against the french.

so they set up a proclamation line. your book has a your textbook has a nice map of it i should have brought in a map for how long? the appalachian mountains saying we can up to that line but we are not going to go past that because we cannot have another war right now. so peace with, native americans, absolutely essential now for the whole empire and for the british north american colonies. that's one of the things. the second thing is it's so clear that the colonies can't take care of themselves. look at how they were fighting so casual. when the fighting got rough, they run away. it's the british regulate. we have to have a standing army in north america. if we're going to hold on to these gains. we have to have a standing in north america. don't fight native americans.

that's one standing army, the third one is we are deeply in debt and the entire empire needs to pay for the gains that we've got. that doesn't just mean taxing people in north america. that doesn't mean just taxing people in britain or in bermuda. it means everybody. but we can't single anyone out for special treatment. this we must not do. we're all british. and so we have be equitable in how we're fashioning taxes and how we're getting people to help pay their share of what was for the entire empire share the british north american colonies got a whole lot of the gain from this they had enemies on all and now they don't what an amazing thing for the first time in the

history of, british colonialism in north america. they have peace on their borders. that's a huge thing that. the british empire did for british north american colony. but we shouldn't make them pay more than their share, but they should pay their share. so starting in 1764, there's series of acts. the is just over right? the proclamation line of 1763, that's at the end of the war. there was fighting for seven years before that. so right this theugar we had navigation acts we talked about those the other day those are the ways the british connected the those of the ways the british connected the empire, and in essence they made money if you are violating them, he would be paying fees and so forth. but mostly it was to guide trade to britain you have to transit

ship things through british ports to get to the colonies and that within made money.y. and trans ship things to export out of the college to the rest of europe and that within made money. they were about orienting the trade. now they're about making money off of the colonists. defraying the expenses of defending, protecting and security the colonies. the colonies had hardly been taxed at all before this. were we taxing people in britain? of course we were, all kinds of taxes. taxes and legal documents, taxes on goods, certainly real estate, on all kinds of things. was parliament taxing the british north american colony? hard at all. mostly the navigation act stuff. parliament understanding that they hadhe the right to tax just asbr they tax cut in butter is british. we are just taxing different

parts of the empire. in 1865 next year he didn't have enough money coming in. the sugar act didn't do it. they needed more and so this is a legal documents and so the stamp might make us think about postage stamps. no, it's watermarks on paper. if youou had a legal document if you're sunk it will come if you signed the deed, all kinds of things, playing cards, all kinds of things, it has to be on watermarked paper and that's how they kept track of it, and she paid a tax on the watermarked paper. another attempt to get the colonies to pull their weight, you know, i do after this paying more than a british are paying in taxes? they still are not paying as much as the british in britain are paying in taxes.. middle east there paying a little bit more. they are contributing to all that security that we gave them a when our army came in with the iroquois were able to push away the french and everything.

another attempt, and we buckled. what a mistake. parliament backed down when unreasoning colonial opposition flared up, and as a british person, i just have to say, what a dramatic mistake. because what this does it teaches them that there something special, that the british like the rest of us. we are paying our taxes. we are not rebelling. they can get a little upset and we back down? what good is that going to do? you need to teach them a lesson. along with thise tried to teach them a lesson. the declaratory act. it doesn't raise any more money, and that's a problem.

because without the stamp act we are still not getting enough money into the coffers to pay our debt from the last war. parliament repeal the stamp act with this act which simply clarified, let's make it clear to those guys in the colonies that parliament has sovereignty over the colonies, in all cases whatsoever. the right to make laws, thegh right to tax. if you are, in fact, violating those laws, you are a criminal.. this is the law we are talking about. this is how society is going to work. in this way they are making clear the colonies at least after this, we were dumb enough to get rid of the stamp act and so we still have a debt problem, but at least they are clear that you need to abide by the taxes that we are setting up for them. and the next year we of course have to pass more taxes. we still have the debt problem. the entire empire needs this

help. other people are paying it. we need you to pay it, too. e new taxes upon class, led, paper, paint, , key. also tightened enforcement of what we've got there. parliament, clear, in its right to tax. of course it's got a right to tax all of the british people everywhere they are in the world, push forward. legislatures, this is not, i mean, if you have laws on the books, parliament is passing them and your people who are objecting to them and saying let's not go a long with the laws of britain, treasonous is not a bad word to use for that. the rule of law itself requires you to abide by the law, and they are not. so the governors, i mean,

obviously if these upstart assemblies, colonial assemblies, or acting in treasonous way, you are going to disband them. you can't abide treason. these are in place for several years, and after a terrible disorder and ae terrible tragey they, , too, stupidly i would sy were repealed. they were repealed because of the boston massacre. what a tragedy. nobody wanted this to happen. what hoodlums these young people with stones, throwing stonest british soldiers. nethey cornered them in a square and were throwing stones and snowballs. the mob was growing and growing. they were cornered. they couldn't get away. and yes, ,hi somebody started, y

fired, it's terrible that they hired a volley into this crowd, five died. what a tragedy. but why were they there? why were they being cornered? why were people pelting them with rocks? ii mean, what started this wasnt the troops. what started this was the colonists throwing stones and acting like thugs. weou did the same things that ay government would do when there is tragedy and disorder. we tried to make sure this didn't happen again. we should be able to have our army were ever oure. army needso be, but we booted out of boston to make sure there were no further problems. we repealed most of the towns

and duties, except the one against -- giving into colonial pressures. again, i would argue this is a mistake. that what this does is teaches the colonists that they are, you know, unbelievably disordered way of living is going to be rewarded, by them not having to be like the rest of the british in the empire, treated equitably. they wanted to be treated as something special. the east india tea company, we have to pass laws that are of benefit to everybody. and there was a particularar of the bar, it's an importa part of thempe, the east india tea company, a very profitable company prepa's accomplice had a hard tim. it was near bankruptcy. and you say that, the cwn gave

a monopoly tohis company, and it set up more firm, nobody else is going to be trading for key in the colonies, and we're going to lower the duties that we had on key. remember the duties in 17707067e had a duty on tea, the lord. but even theyy lowered the dutis and were doing this all empire, instead of celebrating it, they interpreted cheaper legal tea as oppression. what the hell is going on? they whipped themselves into a frenzy and they dumped tea, and were not talkingre about a cup f tea. we're talking about barrels and barrels, 45 tons, this is hundreds of thousands of pounds of tea.

private property that is destroyed going into saltwater. what do you do in the face of mobs who are destroying private property and thinking that's okay? what do you do in the face of colonies who think that there's something special, who think that they can be freeloaders, letting the rest of the empire pay for the benefits that they are getting and being unwilling to pay? what you do is you cracked down. what else can you do? we tried everything else. we tried to be nice, which we even backed off on some of the taxes. we were c the declaratory act. but in the wake of this,

parliament passed a number of acts, not plural. to bring this colony, we were not having such a problem with south carolina, with the tidewater. it was massachusetts that was being such a problem right now. and so we'reo going to be measured. we're not going to make everybody pay. we're going to make them pay. these acts closed boston's port, restricted the representative governing body that we could not trust any longer. look at how they were acting. we were going to try british officials in england? are you thinking we're going to try british officials, which could include british soldiers by the way, in massachusetts? there's no way we could get a free trial there however authorize, the army has to be what it has to be the quartering of troops wherever they were needed. .. freeloading cannot be condone.

next 30 seconds think abo >> it's 30 seconds. >> all right. you colonists, you americans, can you poke holes in any of my arguments there? you free-loading people, you. am i wrong with any of this? how would you, how would you praise phrase it? yeah. -- phrase it in. >> [inaudible] generally i'd say, oh -- [inaudible] it was really, like -- [inaudible] >> -- a whole bunch to talk about. okay, good. that's nice. other things that come c to min? yeah. >> kind of from the british point of view. >> oh, just a little bit. yeah. but was thatt point of view the right point of view?

and maybe our elementary schools and middle schools and high schools where you've learned a rather different story about that are wrong. what's wrong here in -- here? yeah. >> [inaudible] explains the colonial motivatio- [inaudible] >> just slipped into my british persona. but, yeah. so it's not giving the stjustification -- did you have something?g? no. no. n yes. >> [inaudible] to say that in high school -- [inaudible]

like, i actually don't think the i knew why -- [inaudible] >> it's a party, you know? if it was lovely. no, that's not the way that it was taught, i'm sure. but nevertheless, this is a per speckive that we don't tend to get until you get to college, until you start like on that first day flipping the map from one side to another. what doesoe it look like from another perspective. this is a different perspective. but the piece that i want to, i want to press just a little bit harder on is any of this wrong? yes. >> [inaudible] i don't think any of it's necessarily wrong -- [inaudible] bias towards the british. i feel like the main point -- [inaudible] each person's coming from -- [inaudible] >> not necessarily wrong with. i'm glad that i was able to present it to you and you're not

rejecting it. was there anything that was particularly convincing? was there a piece of evidence or a slide or something that you felt like, wow, that's important to think about? was there something that was less convincing? i think i'm going to leave that. but i want you to keep mulling that over.r. and we've got another bit that i'm going to do, and then i'm going to be asking some similar questions toward the end. andll pull that in. what was most convincing from this side, from that side. this is what i put up right at the beginning. and then this awful a, stupid british professor went on a tirade wre he was saying unbelievably mean things about our colonies. free loading? that is mean. >> is this -- [inaudible]

>> we're in the middle of a class. we'll talk later. >> okay. >> yeah. that was very interesting. free loading colonists, that's just insulting. whining? goodat lord. what is the matter with this guy? getting all the benefits? of course thenar have their benefits. paying their -- what? not only do we pay something in the navigation action, but we pay taxes ourselves to the colonial assembly, to the colonies. our assemblies have tax power, and we've been paying taxes ourselves to ourselves. we haveav been running things within our own colony. if we're not paying as much as other people to the empire, maybe that's something to talk about, but don't talk about us not paying taxes. so this is just -- you want to know what we should really be talking about? we need to temper the tyranny of the brush. the british turned away from

their very faith and liberty, is what's going on ooh here. in the wake of the seven years' war, over and over again parliament demonstrated that it had abandoned its sense of democracy,y, abandoned its defee of us. and,he obviously, by the time yu get to the coercive acts, i would say obviously its goal of -- this is a word that you need to keep in mind for the next 20 years of american history -- usurping, taking away the power and authority of the colonys, especially these colonial assemblies. the colonial assemblies are more democratic than parliament. not everybody in the colonies votes for the cope y'all assemblies, been colonial assemblies. but a greater percentage of the men, white men -- i'm just, you know, being realistic here -- are voting for their elected officials in the assemblies than

voted in up britain for the parliament. it's more democratic. and upside cutting that, it's undercutting us. and for generations we've had a way that we dealt can with the motherland, with britain, and they are violating the way in which we have done business all the way through this period. we did the not start with violent protests, we did not start this process after the seven years' war thinking these wild thoughts that this british professor was talking about. we were measured. offended? yes, we were offended. we were offended by the line drawn through the appalachian mountains, the proclamation if line. we win territory like european powers win in any war that they fight. that's what you do, you settle up at the end of a war by tradinger the the stories.

you can see that throughout the history off europe. that's what happened here x. if britain gained all these territories and they're saying don't go there? what the hell isl that? that, to start with, is insulting. that we now have all of this land. we haved tripled the size of british north america, and you're saying, oh, but stay right here on the east coast. that's insulting. this is insulting. so what a do we do? -- what did we do? we were measured. we were calm. we had our legislators who protested to parliament truck thely -- directly that, you know, we are taxing the colonists and this is an encroachmentnt upon the colonial assembly's -- assemblies to tax. this iss where we started to get a little up in arms and for good

reasons. legal documents throughout the colonies, nobody can avoid this tax. this is a way of pulling everybody into a money making venture that we've never had before. for us, no, not for us. for things that are going on in the rest of the empire. a storm of protests, of course it did. this is affecting everybody. legislatures reof to oppose if the stamp act. we're getting our act together. we just started out petitioning, we're going to continue to petition but a lot more strongly. so there's some people who are going to be in mass protest. some had some violence. i'' not condoning the violence, but there was some violence where stamp act officials were oror tarred and featheredded or theired houses broken into and stuff like that. if a movement to boycott british goods was underway. that putsu pressure on british

merchants who put pressure if on parliament, and they repealed the act. why would they repeal the act? because it was wrong. we knew it was wrong. it was clear that it was wrong. this is not the way that that we've done business with with britain and with the empire. and there are the imposing upon us and our clone call -- colonial assemblies' ability to tax, and this shows how we're right. who cares about this. blah, blah, blah. you had to say a few things to cover your back when you backacked from having the wrong foil ifment -- t wrong policy. we didn't pay much attention to this, and why wou we? say what you need to say in order to get to the place where you're doing the right thing. you're taxing us again the next year. well versed now how -- we had practice by this point.

colonists are boycotting brush goods. there's a circular that's sent around to other colonies about how to defy the duties. it's not -- it's three more years before they actually come down, but they come down. why do they come down? was of the horrific violence -- because of the horrific violence against i'm going to call them martyrs to liberty. these people who were standing up to having a -- so, okay, you need a standing army in north america in okay. put ' on the frontier. finish you're going to put 'em in boston? whyos the hell do you need the d army -- i mean, red e army, i'm sorry, the red coats -- wow, thatdi would be quite a differet story, wouldn't it? the red army in this moment. no, the red coats in boston and a house on boston common. thisis is not the british army protecting the colonies, this is the british army intimidating

thing colonies. you don't put them in an urban area full of british people if it's not to manage the british people. so is it a terrible thing that'. who's to blame? the people who have brought this army to boston are to blame. heartless. the soldiers weren't there to protect us, they were there to intimidate us. it was inevitable. there was gonna be a conflict. and instead of -- the kohl just somehow, whatheell is that? we got tea from the dutch can. as well d as the english. andowe can't. cheaper tea from the dutch. you brought down the prices. what you did is trying to cage us into a monopoly.

and under the guise of lowering the duties, tighten up the enforcement that keeps us rigidly tied into with, you know, it's not like tea was just teaas like it is now. tea was the most popular drink of the time. it was a central part of british life in britain and the british colonies'st life. for the last decade parliament overstepping its bounds year after year after year. it's not like we weren't telling 'em how they're being problematic. we told them, we petition thed them, we got out on the streets and petitioned them. this is just another example sneaking the issue of taxation by the people. these are patriots who decided you've gotn to, in fact, hit tm in the pocketbook. they're not listening to us.

let's throw the damn tea boot sea. can into the sea. and then see what they think of that. the spirit of liberty's alive in the colonies, where the hell has it gone in britain? are they trying to enslave the british sons and daughters? that's what it seems like. from this moment. and ten, you know, you push -- and then this, you know, you push minute far enough and they show their true colors. and we pushed 'em. and look at what the showed. all of the colonies, not just montana. massachusetts is freaking -- massachusetts. massachusetts is freak outbo this, of course, it's aut to destroy the colony. but all o the colonies. i mn, cutting off the port cutting off the life blood of massachusetts. that's trying to kill the colony.

all of the colonies are responding to this. ending, you know, limiting and ending democracy in massachusetts in what a giveaway. what is it you care about? making money off of us. what is it you're willing to sacrifice? apparently,f the lives of colonists, democracy itself and the life blood of this colony. you're revealing your true nature.ur does parliament. are the right to make such laws? usurping the rights of kohl justs, forcing -- colonists, forcing its way. this is the moment that we have a continental congress that meets in 774 for the -- 1774 for the first time. in which representatives from all of the colonies come to try

to figure out how do you respond to this kind of intolerable series of acts against us. 30 seconds. was anything here wrong? no? not really? that's not what the issue is? was anything here biased? or was i just telling the truth? yes. >> i think both sides saw each other as a threat, and i think that, like, anytime one side did something, the other side just took it very aggressively. i think the tea act -- [inaudible] oh, i'm lowering your taxes on the tea so that you buy more tea, but for the colonies, it was like you're trying to tick us -- [inaudible]

>> and do whatever. well said. yes. excellent. other responses? what's going on here in is anything wrong? was this a particular part that was convince ising -- convincing or nowing having heard the other side, less convincing than it was when you heard some of these arguments in middle school, in high school? yeah. >> [inaudible] colonies -- [inaudible] yeah -- [inaudible] >> well, i don't -- they never framed it like -- i framed it like thata as a historian. they weren't with framing it in comparative terms to what other people were talking about. but very good point, that that the issue is one that that seems from historians to be pretty darn important. and at a time i don't know that everybody knew what other people were paying, you know?

sometimes -- i like this class period. so i've been teaching this since before you were born. finish this class and this class period. and i like this one a lot. and that's why i chose it to be one that might be filmed. because every time i do it, i convince myself the revolution was stupid. and then i convince myself that it was t a good thing. and you convince yourself of both of those things with the facts that are at hand. and it's not that there is one part of the evidence that's right and the other part is wrong, it is that it depends on how you look at it which is the way life is. i mean, life is complicated like that. so, yeah, the piece e that gets me the most is the one that you're poke at there, ready.

reid. which is if the colonists really understood how much in taxes people were paying in britain, would they have felt differently about the taxes that they were asked to pay? they didn't understand that, and people weren't setting it up in that way. and it just makes me wonder, is communication -- [laughter] just if they had talked to each other a little better, would we not have had a revolution. other things that from looking at this orr side, this american doctor who's talking about this, they come to the fore for you, that stand out as being either more convincing or less convincing in this side of the argument.

okay. how do we reconcile directly competing perspectives,sing directly competing use of some ofme the same evidence just looking at it from different lines or valuing it differently? how do we find meaning in this moment in what an incredibly important moment in the development of the united states, right? if perched on the edge of deciding i'm going to pick up a gun and start shooting at people in red coats who i was fighting next to 12 years before? i mean, imagine what it would take for somebody who thought of themselves in 1763 and '4 and '55 as british first and then what am i next? i'm a virginian. what am i way later down the

list? ap american? what the hell is that? it isn't even a classification yet to think of yourself as somehow united with the with the other 13 colonies. so how do you get from this place of i'm british so let me pick up a gun and shoot the british? that's a lot in 12 years. and so this is a really important moment. and figuring out what's meaningful in this moment is a lot of what we're going to be doing in the next couple of weeks. we're starting itwe now. we're going to be doing it in the next couple of weeks. what does this add up to? that's the sort of, you know, where does this leave you in thinking about this conflict? and i want you to talk to the people next to you about anything in terms of this for another one minute or maybe two

just to get your wheels going on this. and we're going. to talk about this together. all right. i like a lot of the conversations, i'm hearing little bits and pieces of, but i get tired of not being a part of the conversation because i'm extremely self-centered. andan so i want us to talk as a group about anything that you guys were just talking about, the sort of leaping up to the fore for you. yeah, james. >> i was saying that i don't think that even during the seven years' war that the colonists really identified as a british. because like you said, they didn't really -- [inaudible] went back to their farms during harvest time.d so they really cared about a defending their own -- [inaudible] more than the british. i think -- [inaudible] >> maybe the era of benign neglect that we talked about last time, the ways in which the

british were hand off in governing the the colonies and letting them do more of their own thing. will led to the a sort of underground separation that becomes revealed when you have all of this conflict. but maybe there was more separation that was already there. is thatt fair to say? think that's a really interesting thing to think about. that's really rich. other thicks that you guys have -- things that you guys have, that came out of your conversations that you were jutte having -- just having. what does this add up to? >> [inaudible] adding up to all the 13 colonie- [inaudible] >>ll okay. that's definitely the direction we go in where the accept is ration -- the separation just, in fact, gets more and more separate. we're going to be looking at concord, massachusetts, in a book that we're looking at --

we're going to be seeing the process plague out with individual ises, with individual communities. but one of the key moments that we're going to be talking about in a future class period is once you startt fight, it's really hard to go back. if there's blood that's been spilled now, and so once concord and lexington happened in 1775, that's the sort of increasingly separating kind of thing. can we hold more than one perspective in our minds at the same time and say both are legitimate, or do we need to pick? are you? picking one? are you deciding one is right and one is wrong? is that where you're going to land with this? if why not? >> [inaudible]

>> yeah, i hope so. processing it and finding what is most compelling on one i'd ot by a show of nods or manager like thatra or raise hands or something, are young guys thinkg some of the arguments the british were making made more sense than the americans and some that the americans made made more sense than the british? or are you leaning really in one direction or the other? if that was -- you can't nod when i say two to different possibilityies. just the first one, where you take some from both. i'm definitely seeing some nods there. yes. >> [inaudible] i would say that if i'm looking at the whole picture, i'd probably be, like -- [inaudible] >> [inaudible] >>' yeah. i would be, like, yeah, i

understand -- [inaudible] but also the americans -- [inaudible] it's gonna happen. >> there is a way in which you can step further back from the way i was going blow by blow and say, isn't it kind of inevitable if you're separated by an ocean and you getting more and more complex if civilization in british north america that you're going to be growing apart from what's going on in britain and you're going to be a little more alienated from the needs that they have? so there's a way in which this is the moment it happens, but there's a sort of natural development here. and thomas paine has some really interesting things that we're going to read about his sort of justification for why would, for instance, why would an island rule a continent? they shouldn't. it's common sense that we should

rebel and and so forth. so we're going to be getting into that. other things. from what was convincing on one side or the other or how we can balance perspectives. is there a way that we can formulate in that takes both into view? is there -- can you think of a line or a couple of sentences that would allow us to give a nod to both the british and the american doctors? yes. take a stab. >> i think finish. [inaudible] definitely looking at those, if you really back down -- [inaudible]

>> [inaudible] documenting -- [inaudible] >> we're difficult people -- [inaudible] different people. >> -- british side more than the american side. so i think -- [inaudible] >> and, in fact, you can sort of apply that to the moment and say doesn't it always happen in history that one action means that everyone adjust to that one action and there's going to be a counteraction in you know, that both sides f are, in fact, movig

along together. it's the opposition to the stamp act that might have led to more parliamentary members, parliament members being more firm about how to crack down on the colonies later that we were teaching them a lesson, and and they were teaching us a lesson. and those lessons, you know with, stamp act, townsense duty -- townsend duties, boston massacre. it's a dance. history is not just one person moving around a, it's everybody moving around the dance floor. and in this case, you've got the british per spentive and the american perspective bouncing off of each other. do you think we would have been as angry if they weren't so angry that they were doing things that otherwise they wouldn't have wanted to do five years before, but because of all the things they saw us doing,

now they wereu doing -- you kn, it's a bouncing back and forth. soso were they usurping the pows of the colonial aa assembly? they were. to some extent. but those were never really written down anyway, you know? those were informal kinds of relationships that we had in the era of benign neglect as it's called. and parliament absolutely had the right to tax. but we absolutely felt like they are utterly trying to change the relationship between colonies and mother country in a way that we cannot if endure. and once you get to the coercive facts, the 1774 closing of the harbor and all of that, that just seems brutal. there it really does seem like

to colonists you can't interpret this as a anything other than trying to destroy this colony, massachusetts. you can't condone that. when did the american revolution start? that is exactly the right answer looking at me with sort of big answers and saying, uh, what is the date that automatically comes to r mind in terms of revolution for everybody as of elementary school or maybe before elementary school? what's the date? >> july 4th -- [inaudible] >> declaration of -- there are good reasons for that. when did the fighting actually start? >> [inaudible] >> lexington and concord which was 171755.

1775. when did it become inevitable that there would be fighting? you could call that the gunning ofbe the revolution. and -- the beginning of the revolution. and i'm not sure that you could say it was a coercive act that made it -- [inaudible] and if you say the coercive acts, then maybe what you're with really saying is it's the tea act or the boston tea party forking you know with, whatever. which thing, what was the spark? some historians call these proximate if reasons for something to happen, the ones or that are close at hand, the spark that lights the fire. what's the spark? is it going to be lexington and concord? is it going to be the coerce i have acts? -- coerce coercive acts? you can make an argument a for any of these things. but it's a whole series is of them that are happening in the early 1770s.

finish that means '73, 4 and 5 that are leading us in the direction. so, okay, not approximate if mate, not the spark, but what's the tinder? what is it that's fundamentally putting uss in a place where we're doing this, you know, seemingly amazingly huge thing of o turning from in 12 years im british to i'm going to shoot the british in what's the tinder? what's, what does the spark set fire to? i think there you gotta go to bigger themes, bigger arguments. and we're going to be building some of those in the coming several class periods talking about how colonists were thinking about themselves, the empire, the revolution that was underway. but b these bigger themes is tht

england's changed. so 7 -- i'm going to say the biggest change is 1777 -- 1774 -- i'm sorry e, 1764 with the sugar act and the stamp act in 1765. i can't say my dates. because that's when, boom, britain changes the nature of our relationship by turning the switch and trying to profit off of us in a different way. nothing -- that's gonna cause problems. or is it america gradually over several generations becoming something different than british? diversifying thehe population, becoming competitors with britain in terms of sea faring new england states? seeing ourselves as being more and more distinct? we've got generations who are born and grew up here.

is itar something like that? there are different answers to all of this. and one more minute, i want you to write down what you would say this class period adds to the bigger question of when did the revolution start. >> we're here at a special place that commemorates the importance of zora neale hurston and the role that she has played and continues to play as a destination. now, this street, east kennedy boulevard, originally was a part of the road system called the old apopka highway. so during the time of zora neale hurston, she was born in 1891, died in 960, her participants brought her to eatonville when she was a toddler -- parents -- so in the 1900s this roadway

now called east kennedy boulevard was actually the old apopka highway. it was the link between northeast orange county, maitland, and northwest orange county, apopka. and so the road itself is a historic roadway. now, we're in a a space that looks a lot different are if modern eaton theville or eatonville of the day. in fact, this is a space that really hearkens back to what we call old florida. and we are standing in a place where zora neale hurston is known to have done some of her writing. you know, at a certain point she came back and forth to eatonville, and at times when he did stay here -- she did stay here, we call this tuxedo junction. it's actually located right on the shore, so to speaks of

lake -- [inaudible] it is a place, as i say, that she is known to have done some of her writing. now we're at the matilda mow city house -- mosley house museum, and we're here because matilda, known as millie, was a direct descendant of the founder of the town of eatonville, joe clark, especially a place like florida and the south, the porch is, it's a social gathering place for family and friends. and here we actually are stationed or positioned in the porch. what you see here is, it really represents the essence of zora neale hurston as a folklorist. she was, of course, the writer

of this literary -- classicker -- classic, their eyes were watching god. she's actually collecting folklore materials, and this home, i think, represents a kind of tying of the bow because you have a family, a founding family. you have the connection between the childhood friendships that zora neale hurston and tilly had and maintained throughout adulthood. so you had that social interaction combined with the establishment of the town as an incorporated municipality, the first incorporated -- municipality in the united states, and you have the writer, the screen yous in zora neale hurston that makes and establishes eatonville as a

destination for readers or around the globe. ♪ ♪ >> weeknights at nine eastern, c-span's encore presentation of our 10-part series "books that a shaped america," c-span partnered with the library of which explored key pieces of literature that have had a profound impact in our country. tonight, the novel "their eyes were watching 2k3w0.. -- god." the story was set in florida during the jim crow area. our guest the hour of "sore a rah neil hurston and the history of southern life." watch c-span's end core presentation of books that shaped america weeknights at nine eastern on c-span or go to c-span.org/books that shaped america to view the series or and learn more about each book featured. >> all this month watch the best of c-span's "q&a.

on sunday, journalist and historian craig fairman anizes american presidents through the lens of the books they've written through his book, "author in chief," sunday night at 8 p.m. eastern on c pan's "q&a." you can read listen to all of them op our c-span now, our free app dwhroo. weekends on c-span2 2 are an intellectual feast. every saturday american history tv documents american's stories. and on sundays booktv brings you the latest i nonfiction boxes and authors -- books and authors. funding from c-span2 the comes from these television companies and more including media come. >> add meet ya j d -- at mediaing com, we believe whether we live here or right here, or way out in the middle of anywhere, you should have access to fast, reliable internet. that's why we're leading the way. >> mediacom, along with these