today. >> c-span is youent. we are funded by these television companies and more including charter communications. >> charter is proud to be recognized as one providers ande just getting started giving one hundred thousand miles of new infrastructure to reao need it . >> charter communication supports c-span as a public service along with these other television providers giving you a front-row seat to■y■í democra. >> director of councillaries and taking a look at the last severaln college campuses, mr. jacoby, thank you for joining us>> thank you for . >> what brought this on, whao l? s

organization after october 7. ■rwe really started shooting ths in the wake of the october 7 hamas attack and then as this war is developed, and prostcampt would culminate as it has with d crashes with police and schools, presidents having to testify in front of congress. it's been quite a wild story. host: if you hadin retrospect, u think the increase is coming from? what do you think of the main driver? guest's a number of factors here.

one is generational. i think the sixth -- this generation of students is activated about this war for lots of different reasons. i think social media plays a big role in that. of the main factors we focus on in the film is the convergence of outside forces project a narrative here.of whether it be pro-israel oolitil forces or political activists with various different agendas, we've found that in our reporting, with everyone looking to set the narrative here, that has created this kind of tempest that we've seen in the past 7, 8 months. : specifically, who would people outside of the students themselves? guest: we start the film right

on the evening of october 7 and weinitially at harvard university where you have student groups of roughly 30 or so students sign a statement that essentially in line of the statement held the israeli regime entirely for all unfolding violence and the statement did not mention hamas, and we talked to the students that wrote it in the documentary. immediately see a reaction to that. jewish students and professors and other notable people on aaus, and then immediately from the outside whether it was donor pressure and donors who are incensed about this and wanted to see this react. also saw politicians, of course on both sides of the i'll come out and makatthese are acte chriopher russo come out and say that this type of statement that these students made was indicative of a larger problem onzv with diversity,

equity and inclusion programs and what he sees to be the sort of mors happened on campuses. almost within the first 24 hours and host: a supporter of those protests that took place and you want to ask him about what he saw, (202) 7if you oppo) 748-8001. and you're a college student or a college administrator or give your perspective, (202) 748-8002. mr.■ jacoby, he started the documentary ki i want to show the folks at home ae bit of that and then talk to you about it. >> boiling point after days of any chemical. >> april 30, 2024.

protesters condemning the war in gaza have barricaded themselves in a building at columbia . ded the school severed ties with israel. >> pro remove them by force the school will have blood on its hands. >> than 24 hours later, columbia university called in the po. it looks like a military or them right now with protesters on both sides. >> we see an officer approaching a window right now. e fit entered the window, people are screaming on the street in ?h ovcb"w■z>> the clashes awithf

months of chaos sweeping across american college campuses. that isgx the high point, why start there? guest: as you can see,t cam footage from the nypd, whenj we watched this unfold, and point?s univcountry, how did it that is really the question that we are trying obviously startine point of the most visual

that we've seen in years, trying to understand in a very calm and sober way how did we get to this point where we are having clashes between the police and protesters, especially at our most elite universities? host: talk about the clash, the different points. a

or gray area. of course it's not juextremistse media environment that wepeciall media, the extremes are always centuated. so of course there are pro-palestinians that have nuanced views of the conflict in certainly jewish students and others that are more moderate. but i think that what happens is that the extremists7" kind of td to take hold and get the most attention. host:students or the people that you interviewed, to what sense do youance of the history that was going on in theto what sense di? it's mixed, of course. there's plty students that are studying this conflict on campuses and seeking out professors and literature to

teach them. but then surprisingly, what i found surprising was that you talk tond ask them where they are getting their information andow conflict, some of these universities schod this7 history and the history of this conflict answers of well, we don't trust the media and we don't trust our professors, so we do our own research. that was surprising in a bit concerning. if you want host: to ask questions about the documentary, (202) 748-8000. if you support the protests, (202) 748001. for college students and administrators, (202) 748-8002. as always, you can send us a ■gtell us a little b more guests

. did the bulk of finding emblematic people to -- both from the pro-palestinian movements. the chancellor uc in some ways anchoring the film. as somebody who is a female president of a major university storyline about her having been educator and administrator foro lg and she makes the point in this film

that you have asked which her tg to rir having run other schools in the is concerned about the level of division and echo chambers that exist on campuses where universities were meant to be places where people with divergent viewpoints could hash it out and learn from one another. host: let's hear from james who is supportive. caller: they are historical scholars. the u.n. condemned us for being colonialists and they have seen the movie red dawn and can imagine what it ul like.

we need to change the xtbooks so that not everyone knows the truth, not just the kids. especially where the root causes come from and the each -- misteach. our entire economic and educatnalapitalist systems are based on a falsehood. host: what would like to get caller: if he understands the textbos both in biology. host: i will leave it there. is there a sense that the textbooks of the building box has■ç ledo the events of what you are seeing? guest: i think t an important factor, which is i think thatostcolonial studies

and the of intersectionality, which is something e it in terms of what is being taught on campuses, how big a deal it is is difficult to assess in reality, but it does exist where there are the ameworks and binaries to some extent of people looking at the world and having a worldview of and oppressed. if you apply that to israel-palestine or race relations in the united states or any sort of and applying that world view is a part of what is happening here in that seeing -- it can sometimes flatten how you

view conflicts. i again would caution about generalizing that is a pervasive worldview on campusesut be looked at critically to think about if we can apply this idea to complex conflicts. host: is scott in seattle on our proposed line. caller: we have some bad protestsrprised at how many people got the idea they should besuppy were. i am old eugh to remember how yasser had a hard time controlling them and their are don't want them in egypt and causing problems in neighboring arabic

countries. i would think that whatever happens, they can't really be trusted. i wouldn't trust them with a tablespoon of cement. the business of going out and dressing in women'sing and fading into the crowd■5 and they can't put a uniform on and fight . if they would just do something like that or in good faith, i think things would be better. guest:■n■ i think what scott jut said there is obviously a controversial statement about portraying these protesters as pro-hamas portrayal that may bet not necessarily a generalization i would make about the protest movement. there is t whether

the students are condemning, and whethe that thomas is a legitimate resistance -- that hamas is a legitimate to the israelis. this is a big question we grapple with in the film that again i think whate lenged making a film like that is that on all sides there is a lot of broad brushing and paintingf of different groups with broad brushes and that is whatd not t. host: one of the players, so to speak, in the last few weeks are members of congress themselves. talk about their role. guest: weress immediately weighing in on this and this is across the political

spectrum. hearings and comments have taken place, the first hearing being december 5 education committee, run by vi/j■!inia■6 fox, called beforee committee the presidents of harvard university, pennsylvania and m.i.t. ttify. at that hearing there was the exchange what can be called a famousxc between a harvard g in which she posed a hypothetical question to each of these of ■-- answers of which went viral because of their inability to answer in a clear fashion and they were trying to navigate to key legal aspects and didn't really answer it very clearly. host: one of the follow-up we saw because of that right after

it was cudin harvard. guest: that within weeks of that hearing■o, the president of the university ofnia resigned and then we saw christopher rufo, who is an activist who this camt diversity, equity and inclusion on colsis and elsewhere and he published a series of articles about allegations pthat claudine gay of her dissertation and other instances surfaced and under thisf controversy, she resigned. host: is necks from miami, opposed. just a reminder to everybody

that october 7, the murders wer$ -- the israelis were murdered■jy terrorists. and after that harvard and others support the msacr jews. this wasor the university presidents could not condemn the speed -- students screaming "death to jews," and using violence to prevent jewish students from going to classes. i think that this is about students,y$■ the justice for palestine and american muslims for palestine organizations supporteby soros and many other anti-israel forces that nize this with money and expanded the protests. these college campaigns were

successful. within months, bidainst israel y you can see in this an effort to stop israel from defeating or damaging hamas. mr. sense of the funding of the groups that she mentioned? guest: a lot of reporting is yet to be done on the fundgces for s on both sides. that is not really what we get into very deeply ithreporting. we were touch upon what was brought up about the student statements and what they actually said and what their motivations were, again using the pro-hamas label can be problematic in some ins but we delve into that in this

we just say that i think in terms of biden's foreignwhethers reallyec way is difficult moment in the leadp to the israel rafah invasion and not holding back certain types of u.s. missiles or bombs and related in some way, i think people have been i am not sure there is evidence to support that but i do think that pamela raises an interesting point about the politics. we are in an electionea and a lot of people are drawing parallels between now and 1968 in terms of what this might mean for domestic politics that there

is this constituency of young people the pro-palestinian movement that will be a factor, rt james of the documentary "crisis on mpus," which unveils today. where can we find it? guest:■0 it will air tonight on cbs so check local listing on ts andpps. and youtube. host: john in illinois, supporter of the protests. caller: i just wanted to say■, e should understand why the otrs are protesting and apartheid. so in favor of genocide and

ppression of palestinian people a they would be against the protesters. there are two sides to a genocide. this is the easiest question if you are for genocide israele against genocide in need to support the protesters. you of the acceleration says how president and administrative people reacted initially and how that keptelerating the process. can you elaborate on that as well? that■he presidents were in an almost impossible position but answering to so many different constituencies. here comes this very complex and

intractable problem, -- probably the most complicated in history in some ys, th conflict in the middle east coming onto their campuses■ with all this passion and trauma attached to it and theyaving to navigate that on top of constituencies onas it put, thie quicksan administrator it make e move and then move it further and it is very difficult to navigate for them. question, a lot, if not most question about the war in gaza and what we are seeing every day in terms of the t there and that is

moti the protest movement and i think what struck me about this and you also asked what are the demands of this movement. a lot ofhe protests are demanding the■[ end of funding e university campuses and the divestment from israel and cutting ties with israel. ■estioning u.s. support for israel. i think trickier in terms of what are the pragmatic solutions to the anyone is sitting back and happy to see what is happening in gaza right now but estion as to what are the demands and h r host: let's hear from nickí÷yz

florida on our opposed line. ■d< good morning. i am opposed to israel occupying palestine the way it is. ■every chance they have to basically they get shot down. people in r country have family overparts of the world ae calling you and crying and complaining about family members dying. you go to your legislators and ■lyoplead and you do something on the issue but the issue i, israel bought our country. every member in congress has an

israeli handle. they have to answer to israel. this is america. st: if i understand it correctly, you started this project on the tail end of a ec looking at benjamin netanyahu and one oe last interviews you did help to prepare for this. can you relate that? guest: it informs my response to the previous. frontline has reporting on benjamin netanyahu for many years. i picked colleagues and we reled a film last year about netaahu, america and the road to war in gaza. it was a look back goingbt back all the way to the oslo and howu rose to power and where his views were comin from, in some

ways coming to its own as an opponent of the peace process in the 1990's and bill clinton's efforts to bring people to the e. on the other side you had hamas coming into the floor at that point with suicide bombings and te. in the course of reporting that, spoke to the chief envoy and lead negotiators and was there at the oslo accords at trying to get these two sides together. he said something to me that stuck with me and i have been thinking about as we have been making thi that the advance of s in that moment, what happened was they turned what had been an

existential■% crisis into a political problem. the point was, an existential crisis has no solutionhease solutions. when i waso him and number of months ago and before we -- i became involved in reporting on the campus crisis, he said at the protests andha was going on and looked at israel and the response to it and that has happened since october 7 and he worries we have gone back to a pre-oslo world, where we are all the sudden hearing protesters and talking about, we want 48, meaning let's go back to it that regent looked like before israel was created in 1948. -- region looked like before israel was cren 1948. that takes us back to an

extent crisis where going to the original creation of the state of israel. really, i don't want to speak for him, but what he was essentially saying as it;ó is a dangerous place to be in an existential crisis because if you make this a political problem you can't solve it, whether it is state solution or whatever it will be and i think he was worriedon ths protesting on both sides and you can talk about netanyahu's government and the par greater israel. and then you have pro-palestinian people saying palestine will be free. we are back to an existential crisis and that is unfortunate, because that sort of wipes out

problem and therefx could eventually be some sort of solution like a two state solution. host: david in arizona on our opposed line. caller: good morning. i have sympathy for the innocent combatants in gaza that are experiencing all of this trouble in the war. as far as the protests are concerned in the united states, i think right after october 7, the people in celebrating in the streets what had happened, not unlike what happened when the twin towers came down and that is plain wrong. i understand free speech and straight so i opposed the protes against what israel has

been trying to do toh, and rescuedhe hostages. there will be casualties. celebrating a massacre it really bothered me. that is just wrong and the protests in israel against the because the government is not listening to the people of israel and they -- the ruling party needs to listen to need to stop celebrating death and destruction by the hands of terroris. that is all i have to say. guest: i thi that again, we should caution against painting everything with a broad brush. some celebrated in the october t unconscionable. i think a lot of the protests that the previous caller are

saying is people feel the attack on gaza has been unconscionable. you have this so complicated and loaded on all sides s, i would caution against -- is ignorance on all sides and extremism on allbut i think we n these protests in some ways as righteous and in some ways as problematic. i think that is just the reality of things. i don't think you can label it all as pro-hamas,ta students st. the realitis complicated. host: you talked about college presidents and we talked about claudine gay. also appearing before congress was columbia university

president. e toh criticism and questioning, what did she do differently than others didn't? guest: she obviously had seen the previous testimony with the president of harvard and m.i.t. and did not want to repeat that. she was invited to the first hearing but shee country at the time. so they called her in was very . she was asked that same question by elise stefanik about whether con for the genocide of the jews was a violation of the school's code of conduct. she was very quick to say absolutely as opposed to a more nuanced answer to the question. so she clearly learned from the first hearing. i think it was controversial though. () to be under pressure

from both dors campus to crack dow■ ways some faculty members to list in the e school under theeak, and did noo and question whether there is truly an antisemitism rises campus and question the symptoms -- committee members and was quick to capitulate that these are n wore spoke to at colombia university who thought that she was quick to capitulate to political pressures as opposed to really standing up to them, for instance not standing up and that testimony that they are coming down hard on protesters and not tolerating certain types of speech and

looking into the professors and potentially taking the post if they say something controversial. professors and students at columbia felt somewhat betrayed by her in that hearing. the interesting thing about hearing was that a number of people on that committee still called even though she gave answers that were rather different from othed given in december. host: next in virginia, support line. caller: they want to stop the gede and they are notas. let's not forget netanyahu wo hamas to divide and conquer and■;ce■ñ he allowed fug of money to,.

cebut stopping bombings and suicide bombings inside israel, they were safe for a long time. the palestinians are frustrated that the to takee solutions. before octoberj; 7, this has ben going on for 80 years. and they want to remove all palestinians from palestine. this is what is happening over there. the media here, i rember one -- 100 reporters killed in gaza msnbc 24/7.ad any on human life in democracy and

against violence. all of the sudden they hardly cover host: we got your point. thank you. guest: to the point of kind■í■df professional promotion here, i would s line. the film that we made on netanyahu includes some of what he is discussing about ahu's approach toward hamas over the years and gives context and information about that. i would also reported on what has been happening in the west bank since october i think we are a very reliable source of information aboutflict. i would say yeah, of course i think a lot of the protest movement is about calling for cease-fire. there is obviously to parties here in terms ofamas still has

is really hostages. been marriott efforts to try to come to an agreement -- myriad efforts to try to come to an agreement. the latter looking saying a ceao happen and that is a fair characterization of a lot of the protesters. host: college students are now large part. what is your sense of think we e intensity increase? guest: i think it depends on what happens in the region. ■ñif there is a cease fire in se sort of resolution, not that it solvesong-term or short-term problems in many ways in terms humanitarian crisis in gaza but

i think that will dictate events and i think the students are extremely motivated and the movement beyond these campuses to get this on the radar think o become aection issue, at least certainly on the left and ild imagine that some groups are going to push forward with the pte to in some way sway the election. host: james jacoby which is the. >> on thursday presidential pree

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