of many people you interview. the verdict? >> guest: a few said yes. the cohost of leave you said happish. she was very proud of what she did. she was proud of the money she made in the achievements she had. but almost everyone else i talked to said no, never content, she is not happy. >> host: susan page, thank you. .. know, authors like keep research good morning, everybody. welcome to this session. i'm jeff urban. i'm the education here at the roosevelt presidential library and museum. and on behalf of the fdr presidential library museum. i'd like to welcome you all to 20th anniversary i would like to welcome you all to the 20thg anniversary of the rows of reading festival.

fdr planned from liber to become the premier research institution for the study of the entire roosevelt era, at the library research room is consistently one of the busiest of all presidential libraries. this year's group of authors reflect a wide variety of research done here, and in this similar institutions throughout the country. so let me quicklyly go through e lay of the land here. we are going to talk for about 30-40 minutes or so and then the would be some timee to do questions and answers. we are in the c-span room so if you're going to ask a the quen we need you to come up to the microphone you don't ask a question until you getet to the microphone, asked the question and then the author will respond. we want to make sure we get the question on audio. and it is my pleasure to introduce our next author, david pietrusza, the author of many books including 1932 the rise of

hitler, and fdr two tales of politics, the trail and unlikely destiny. roosevelt sweeps nation, making 36 landslide and the triumph of the liberal idea, idea. and "gangsterland: a tour through the dark heart of jazz-age new yorkk city." hehe has appeared on "morning joe", the voice of america, the history channel, american heroes channel, espn, npr and c-span. he has spoken at the fdr presidential library in the past, at the john f. kennedy library, and also at the truman presidential libraries. as well as grant cottage state historic sites, the national baseball hall of fame and museum, and various institutions, universities and libraries, festivals across the country. he lives in new york state and here to talkis to us about his recent book is david pietrusza.

[applause] >> thank you. i think the first question i often get about a book is why, first off, thanks to all the great people here for having me. this is an honor to be here. everyone is so nice, and it's an event i look forward to even when i'm not speaking. i show up as a spectator. that's how much i like it. but anyway, so why write a book like this if you're like a presidential historian and such? while, before that i was doing baseball history. i did a book on the gangster and all-around underworld figure arnold rothstein. and a few years ago, a couple years ago i got a call from somebody i've been doing one of these things on cable tv where you argue about the events of the day, and he says, hey, i do a radio show now about broadway and could you come on and talk

about arnold rothstein on broadway in time square? and i said, yes, i can. because right after writing the book about arnold rothstein, which is now about 20 years ago, i have conducted, i was hired to do a walking tour of times square, arnold rothstein said time square, okay? and because it's time square where you keep your hand on your wallet, i was stiffed on payment for that to her. [laughing] but i kept all my notes and more remarkably i could find them in the hovelas that passes from my office. and so i thought, well, why don't i just, i will do the interview and maybe i could publish a little pamphlet. i tend to get carried away. one of the reasons i could get carried away is because unlike

today's newspapers which prevent all sorts of details, particularly about crimes and criminals and vocations, , the newspapers and then were just all of details and plenty of details to be full of and the prohibition era in time square. and then i took the thing forward and did like a part two in the book about the upper west side, which i was quite surprised to learn w was really bobbed up back then. because it's a direct shot from time square, or from the upper west side to where the action was in times square. so the newspapers would tell you all the details and he would tell you not only the street that something occurred on, they would tell you the street number and they would tell you the apartment number. i found a guidebook which, , for 1920, which listed the addresses of famous people in the city.

so it would tell you where under secretary of the navy franklin roosevelt lived, okay? imagine that in today's world. and, and so one of the things i said, i said please let me speak about this book at the roosevelt reading festival. i promise i will bring in politics front and center to that. because, we talk about intersectionality now in politics. and there's an intersectionality, all overlap, about this story and about how gangsterism worked in the 20s in times square. so you've got the usual murderers and shakedown artists and speakeasies and bootlegging, but you also have, oh, you have politics. this is ar big factor which plas

into it. they need protection, and he goes into sports where they are fixing certain sporting events. and it goes into the theater where every gangster a seems to have a showgirl girlfriend. and not all gangsters. not just gangsters. maybe franklin roosevelt does, but william randolph hearst certainly does. his first wife and that his second wife marion davies. so youal see this over and over again. you also see that often a thet lines of early 1930s movie which seem sort of fanciful and hackneyed really are based on today's headlines or yesterdays headlines in that case. so with politics the cornerstone of the story is tammany hall. the democratic organization which runs everything really in new york city at the time and for very long time in which

franklin roosevelt's makes his early reputation in the new york state senate as being a forceful opponent of. and with the most prominent tie-in to the violence in this era, area and in this era is the tammany boss of the lower east side, a guy named big ten sullivan. sullivan, again intersectionality overlap, sullivan aside from wanting lower east side and being a state senator and the congressman was also a partner in the west coast vaudeville chain come of all things. so we had an office for his gene at 1440 broadway. and so sullivan also protects up and coming young gamblers of whom is arnold rothstein and another is gaining rosenthal. roosevelt has again we house at

104 west 45th street. and he gets tired of being shakenpr down by a police lieutenant also protected by sullivan called lieutenant charles becker. becker is one mean, crooked cop. and rosenthal says, do you know who i am? i am a friend, i'm a protégé of baked him and you're picking on me and i'm not going to take it. whereupon his gambling house is wrecked by the police. this happens one more time. andnd rosenthal, this is a bad timing for tammany because, because manhattan is one of those rare intervals when manhattan has a republican da. so it's going to go to the da is going to go to the press. trouble in river city. becker and big tim sullivan, big tim sullivan by the way of article is a father of first gun control law in the united states, sullivan act.

okay? and also involved in the murder of rosenthal which is the first drive-by shooting in the united states history. they just sort of go by him after, after hiring some killers to another gambler named weber who had a feral house at 10202 west 42nd street which is now a whole foods. [laughing] okay? the one by brian park. so rosenthal is no more. becker goes to the chair picky is the first come so many firsts in this case, the first and he thinks only cop to go to the church and the united states of america. so we have that, but surviving this mess is arnold rothstein.

and rothstein, there are many, many sites that one can visit which were associated with him in new york city, most notably the park central hotel very near to carnegie hall. big hotel still in business telecom 200 west 56th street. and he is killed and upper room there. by another gambler named george mcmanus. well, that's my theory anyway. and it was dea's theory as well but not the juries. the pretty much i think the fix was in there, so they let him go. rothstein was involved in like i sayay rum running, loansharking, bootlegging, speakeasies, fixing things. he's a great middleman of

things. and one of the middlemen, well, there is an adjunct or detour from the rothstein story, and he has a relative, a relative of his is a cousin that is married to a guy named george ringler. and george ringler was a sort of, he would get around in political circles, again, politics. he also worked for the "new york daily news" as sort of a photographer and the go to guy, i guy who would feed stories to the reporters and stuff like this. he showed up in the story as a fellow who served summons because it was an entertainer at this time by the name of frank kenney, a blackface entertainer. you could listen to recordings

of this act. not in blackface, on youtube. one is called frank kenney first recording and the secondan is called frank kenney second recording. it's remarkably funny. but as a person not so funny. and so he after beating of his beautiful girlfriend imogene wilson, is accosted by "new york daily news" photographer in times square. and beats him up, too. whereupon george ringler will serve him with a summons on behalf of the beat up photographer. ringler is also connected to mayor james j walker, the corrupt mayor of new york city who was removed from office eventually by governor franklin delano roosevelt. wrangler is so close to walker he accompanies walker up to

albany to argue his case and try to save his office. but if you think wrangler going up to albany is impressive, i will tell you what is impressive. we happen to have george ringler granddaughter sitting in the front row, randy ringler. so you weren't expecting that, were you? [inaudible] >> she's got, she's got information which were not going to discuss further. even though this meeting is hosted by the fed's. okay. another politician who was involved was a guy named maurice. he had an office at 152 west 42nd street. he is the sum of and on the upper upper upper west side, summer passed i think columbia university. okay. he's in there for a couple terms. he'se' rothstein said attorney t

the impurities fixing everything for him. when arnold rothstein is shot at the park central hotel and is dying at the polyclinic hotel which by the way valentino died at an marilyn monroe was treated at, and when rothstein is dying, can't or produces, shows up the deathbed and says arnold, remember that will last me to prepare a few weeks ago? and you never got around to signing? i happen to have it right here. sign here. this was contested by arnold's relatives but that's a sort of fellow that maurice cantor was in the sort of people that were often invested in politics at the time which is why tammany was about to collapse. theyo also had to bet arnold

rothstein's papers which randi may have with her, i don't know. no, she says no. was 17th district leader of tammany in manhattan, gyn nathan burke and. the tammany guys were not dumb. bergen was the best entertainment lawyer in the country.ta he represented, you name all the stars of the silent era. you name all the studios. he represented them all. he was hot stuff. he was good. oddly enough his grandson jonathan is now the congressional cochairman for the new york state republican party. so the story never seems to end. bill fallon, another while rothstein lawyer, had been an assistant da in westchester county. he was born right near the

church of st. mary the virgin in times, square, which if you are ever in times square go see because it's the hidden gem of times square. it's beautiful. but he was, he became rather -- quite flamboyant, great jury fixer, et cetera, et cetera. at the hotel del claire in aprin bursts into the room where he is and throws some form of acid into his face. remarkably, they get in to -- they get into a hospital and not only is he not lighted, he's not even scarred. but he is sort of the type of lawyer that is portrayed like in the musical chicago. he is, , when arnold, when willm randolph hearst is bringing

charges or when theyha are bringing jury charges against fallon at one time he puts hearst on trial. he sets are picking on me. the hearst papers are picking on me. and you know why? because i have a secret birth certificates of the twins that was fathered by william randolph hearst and marion davies. there was no birth certificate. there were no twins. there were no children. he was acquainted. so those are the sort of people we're dealing with. last but not least in the early 1930s there's a judge, judge joseph crater that goes to dinner at the chophouse on times square and then steps into a taxicab afterwards, and disappears and is never seen again. he is one of the many, many,

many corrupted judges in new york city at that time but a product of tammany hall. but connected to some pretty respectable names. he had been b the secretary to senator robert wagner, the fatherci of social security and the wagner labor relations act. then he moved on from that to be a supreme court judge, appointed to the position by governor franklin delano roosevelt. now, there's some the recess to what happened to him, none of them stand up to absolute proof. he may have been proposition by -- who had a grudge with him and taken tosl coney island cats and since beaten into him. they beat a a bit too much see into him and he was buried under the boardwalk. that's a theory.

or that one of the things which i talked about intersectionality or didn't talk about prostitution, that he may have gone to one of poly antlers and for this, or famous, brothels in the city and that not survived the evening in a different form and was dumped in the hudson river. but you payho your money and you take your choice on what happened to him. speakeasies, speakeasies are just as you were, particularly in the west 50s. texas gaiman is most famous speakeasy operator, houses, movies made about her while she's doing this. helen morgan who was a big musical comedy star, she stars in the original showboat. and like in the after showboat opens, her speakeasy is rated. okay? fso, place this was.

another big speakeasy operator is a guy named larry bay, cooperate a bunch of taxicabs and he would send taxicabs up to montréal and they would come back with booze andnd such and such like this. so we owned a club on west 45th street and then later on when he usck were down on his lk he's operating the casablanca -- casa casablanca on west 56th street. and when hee has to cut the employees wages, the doorman shoots him dead. shoots and dead. he attend since and his pocket when he died. crime does not necessarily pay. he's also noted for something else. before it was unpopular, or before it was really popular in some places and then really unpopular everywheree else, he would festoon his speakeasies and taxicabs with giant

swastikas. okay? so anyway, goodbye to larry say. other speakeasy operators you may have heard of our jimmy duranty, arnold rothstein has aa crap game operating in the basement of his club durrant, and billy rose, billy rose was a great showman. he did that movie in the '50s with jimmy grady called jumbo. and he was at one point married to fannie brice. humana's speakeasy called the backstageta club, which he was propositioned by one of these, these, them and those guys. i'd like, i'd like to buy a share of your establishment, mr. rose. i'm not interested. so it'sd rated by the cops. everything is smashed up. same thing happens again. finally he gets the message. but it's really not at these

them and those guys who's doing it. he's doing it at the behest of arnold rothstein. the rothstein gets a cut, thea police get back cut, anything like that. being married to fannie brice, okay, fannie brice had been married earlier to ar guy named nikki arnstein, if you remember the movie. but the left out of the movie largely was nikki was a confederate and a great admirer of arnold rothstein. he was a con man in his own right. as a talked about jewelry robberies, there were also a lot of government bond robberies back then. the bonds were not come were bearer bonds so youou could just cash them in. so ifhi you got a shipment of oz wall street to the bank or something, they would be hit and then robbed. arnstein was involved in this. when on the lamp at one point and then got sick of being on

the lamp, turned himself in and arnold rothstein gate in some advice. why don't you instead of just turning herself in in some boring way they would have a police parade down fifth avenue every year. why don't you get in a car and ride down in the police parade past the commissioner of police? he did. the police were not amused. he did go to leavenworth but for bail money arnold rothstein provided that bail money to fannie brice. but he also said, because he wasn't just auschwitz. he said while we're here, i have an importing business and you have a new apartment. why did you buy all your furniture from me? and he did any seriously, seriously overpriced. she was not amused. nor was a woman named and

nichols. and nichols produced, wrote a show in the t 1920s called irish rose. you know the old plot, jewish guy marries irish girl. god knows where the first of anything starts but she had the first t big hit with that. it was the longest running show in broadway history for a long time. it was a big hit but it wasn't at first. and like all those broadway show musicals, movies and the -- if we only can stay on, the show is going to havebe legs, it's going to be hit, i believe in it. and she goes to arnold rothstein for money to keep it going. because rothstein actually financed the building of the theater on 42nd street. he would put the money up for dessert anything if he could make money back.

and he says, , sure, i can lend you the money. and she says do you want a piece the show? no, i don't want, i just want the money back with interest, soon, on time. and while you're here, you know i'm in the insurance business. i'd like you to take up some insurance policies on your life with me as the beneficiary. this is common practice by him. she was not in use. if he had taken the original deal he could've made a a reay big fortune on it as the only cleared about $3000 but that's the sort of weaving in dealing which was going on there. as i said, a lot of showgirls involved in these things -- wheeling and dealing -- anybody had a showgirl, course girl, girlfriend, lake steinman did. when the marx brothers are on

broadway in your second show called coconuts, lyric theater, harpoo decides i got a new gag i'm going to try to catch groucho unaware and see if i can get him flat-footed and not know what to do on the stage some just going to have a blonde run across a stage and it going to chaser honking my horn. and well, actually crouch and knows what to say that's not the point of the story. the point of the story is afterwards so much as harpo, do you know who that course girl is associated with? no. that's legs diamonds current girlfriend. why don't you get another blonde? so we did. all those things would be going on -- also make, they also make a show called room 349. that's the room number where rothstein was killed at what is

now the neither land these are just below 42nd street. it's not a very good show. at last for a handful of performances. it's done very soon after his death. the names are change the course to protect the guilty, but is remarkable is that his mistress is inn the show, a woman named ynez norton. so these are indeed wild, wild times. sports, there's a guy named, a gangster who moste people have forgotten but wasbi bigger then pick his name was owing the killer madden. when you got a nickname in the circles like the killer, yes, he did anyway to sing sing for about eight years or so. he comes up and becomes the big bootlegging guy of the westside. and also involved in sports with a couple of associate big bill duffy and frenchy.

so they promote a guy from italy called primo. big, giant of a guy who really can't box a way out of a paper bag, but if your friends like big bill duffy and frenchy, you would become heavyweight champion of the world. because fights are fixed. how are the fixed? well, in one case a friend of owing is a guy named george raft, the actor. the actor, , before he became an actor was an associate of guys like all in, but also worked in texas diamond speakeasy as wraps the foremost charleston dancer in america to see if you can find on youtube where he does a brief charleston. he's a good. at one point he is proposition or asked by madden to go to guy

boy peterson, a fighter, to throw a fight. and toem threaten it. he does want to threaten so just slipped him a mickey and makes them a little shaky before the fight. this happens at the hotel clarridge on w. 44th fourth street which is the headquarters of lucky luciani. so all these things connect and go around in circles and keep happening and happening. the jewel robberies, amazing, amazing numbers involved in,, $305,000 in jewel robberies. 265 murders of showgirls, again, having -- oh, one of the showgirls is insured,s the jewes are insured by arnold rothstein. but just before she's robbed and murdered, the policy lapses.

okay? these are tough times. the tough times. at one of the jewel robberies, $305,000 robbery, is a woman named godman. they brought something from a guy named harry of the glenn be hairnet manufacturing fortune. big money in hairnets. so she's involved in that. she gets caught and one of her associates commits suicide. she shows up in our story a couple decades before that when she comes in from chicago with a rich businessman. they checked into the hotel and the place is rated by detectives except they're not detectives. not detectives. is this a badger team, a blackmail operation. they want to shake this guy down

for money. he says i don't care, i'm not paying. she has to take it on the lam. she comes back into the city where she becomes the mistress of one charles a stoner who was the owner after 1917 of the nuke baseball giants. remember horse who moved to china to san francisco. horace was a stockbroker who was involved in operation, type of operation called a pocket shop. what's a bucketho shop? a bucket shop is when you go in and they say you should buy anaconda copper and they know it's a stinker. they know it's overvalued. you give them the money and they don't buy the stock. because they know it's a stinker, it's been deflated byy rumors and is going to go down. in fact, and then they made through additional rumors and press reports in as to how bad the company is.

and then they say oh, i think you should get out before goes lower. and they return and little sliver of the money that you paid in for it and keep the rest of it. horace was involved in that. these sort of operations were protected by tammany hall and are protected by arnold rothstein. you all of those things going on as well. i think i'm about ready to be yanked off in terms of this. so there's much more. it's in the book, and i'll be around later on to discuss you want and to discuss discussing the you want to talk about now. to the microphone. okay, if there are any questions come on over and have at it. here's one. >> my main question, i'm guilty

of it myself, is why are we so fascinated by such bad people? >> when you are baptized, the priests asks the infant do you reject satan? do you reject the clamor of people? evil has a certain glamour. that's why it succeeds. that's why satan is so successful. because, because, no, he doesn't come to you with something that is repulsive to tempt you. he comes to you with all those showgirls, you know? he comes with the bubbly, the champagne, the good times. the '20s. why the '20s? about the '20s so much worse because they are sort of a fun era. it's fun but in a bad way. and i like to say about sin, sin

is like eating at mcdonald's. it seems like like a good e time but you always regret it. next question. >> thanks very much. can you talktl about just a lite bit about fdr's involvement with tammany hall, how he maneuvered within, around then, against them in the state legislature time and even his time as governor? >> may have, back when they had united states senators elected by legislators, it was a deadlock, fdr is, a big part of the deadlock, the democrats had majority in the legislature, which was unusual at the time, and ais deal is made eventually putting another democrat in here in the meantime he, you know, gets a lot of enmity from

tammany hall. but then i think, well, he's a a damn good politician and he realizes it are going to not move to wyoming are somewhere, you better make your peace with tammany hall. answer by the time like the 1920s convention, he's already been a member of the wilson administration and is learning the ropes more and more. and he's also picked up a guy named louis howe who's going to say cool it, franklin. youkn know? you know, , don't shoot all your ammunition here. you've got to live to fight another day. he's palling around with how smith at the 1920 convention. at some point he gives them a vote or two, and smith becomes, he was at that point becomes a protégé of smith. smith builds them up at the 1924 convention, at the 1928 convention, makes him the governor. really? and when tammany dedicates a new

wigwam or headquarters on union square, franklin roosevelt is it there. he's not hands-off anymore and he's appointed guys like judge crater to the bench. he doesn't have to but, you know, politics is the art of the politics and you do what you do. i think he also appoints a particularly nefarious friend of mayor walker to judgeship around that time and probably many, many more. you know, even when walker is going down, he's kind of careful as to not go too far and not, you know, get to inflammatory against him. it's a balancing act but one season white house and all the patronage goes to the people like laguardia or flynn in the bronx thank you.

yes. >> just a fun thing, that if you can comment on his damon runyon was sitting with with rothstein all the time taking notes. so his stories that people have a lot of fun reading are actually a sonli all of these real-life characters and in guys and dolls navin was based on arnold rothstein. betting on the cheesecake on the strudel. i think you follow all the damon story because he loved that and sports, that you will -- >> at some point not too far into the lindke story, and there's a ladies at times square now which is not related but there was sort of two link these on opposite sides of broadway after a while. the first one where arnold rothstein was and he got the phone call to go to the park central hotel, come on up, we

got something discussed by the way i like to kill you. look i don't think he wanted to kill him. i think some sort of accident. it was whatever. that's an interesting thing. a study mob hit? that was a mob hit, right? no. a mob hit closure damn head off. it doesn't shoot you once in the stomach so you can wander down the stairs, he picked up by the police and goo to the hospital. that's not professional. that's an amateur who does that. that's, you know, whatever. but at the other lindliess across in carnegie hall, these things go on in times square. at park central anastasia 1956 of murder incorporated is killed in the barber chair there. and also think in 1956 or around that time there's a crusading newspaperman who i met later on, i guy named victor roselle. if you remember him. he went after the union's

corruption hammer and tongs. and one day he came out of a radio broadcast nearby, is standing in front of lindliess in the '50s, this isn't the roaring '20s. and a goon throws acid in his face, and he is not as lucky as bill fallon. but he goes on. the goon is killed by the mob. good. they silence him. roselle goes on to continue writing a column for decades afterwards and becomes head of an international newspaper reporting association. as i say i met him, and i look into his face and saw those sunglasses which are covering the scars. and i do not admire those guys. thank you.

[applause] >> i guess we adjourn to the lobby. you can have your book signed out there in the lobby. >> if you're enjoying booktv can sign-up for our newsletter using the qr code on the screen to receive a scheduled upcoming programs, author discussions, book festivals and more. booktv every sunday on c-span2 anytime online at booktv.org. television for serious readers. >> weekend on c-span2 on intellectual feast. every saturday american history tv documents america stories, and on sundays booktv brings you the latest in nonfiction books and authors. funding for c-span2 come from these telio