way as they're done many times before and get it done. a really. as it relates to secret service, that is something that secret service can speak to. that is something that we don't talk about the from here. it comes from secret service. the president has been very clear after july 13th when we saw the attempted assassination in butler, pennsylvania, the president said we needed to the increase -- he wanted to to see an increase in the protection, and we saw that. and so the president has always been very clear about this. he's always been spoken to that in particular piece here. he wanted to see the highest lev of protection -- level of protection. and secret service, the acting director said it's a happened, and so that's important too. that's something that the secret service speaks to. all right. okay, everybody. thank you. >> does the president believe the farm bill -- [inaudible] ranchers really want to know.

[inaudible conversations] >> on friday, the the candidates for governor in missouri face off in a debate to replace current governor mike parson. hosted by the missouri press association. our live coverage begins at 3 p.m. eastern on c-span2, on our free mobile app, c-span now, and online at c-span.org. >> host: joining us this morning is bill goldston, or senior fellow for government studies at brookings institution, here to the talk about campaign 2024 and the national debt. mr. gold son, you wrote this piece in the "wall street journal," u.s. national debt crisis coming. trump and harris are determined to ignore the problem at the country'sor peril. what is the crisis that is coming? >> guest: well, for your younger viewers, greta, a little bit of history may help. by the end of the previous century, we had four straight years of budget surpluses.

we were actually paying down the national debt. which stood at about a third of our gross domestic product. since then we've been piling up deficits and debt annually. we have added $25 trillion to the national debt over the past two decades, and in the next decadede alone we're on track to add another $2 2 22 -- 22 trillion for a grand total of $50 trillion dollars. and that's not free money because we have to pay interest on it. .. will be ineffective borrowing money to pay interest on the debt. that is not a sustainable

situation. it is not a crisis that overwhelms the system all at once. it sort of like slow-motion bleeding that weakens the patient andly ultimately as a death it's very difficult to make this a front burner issue. but, at some point after talking about it. >> host: speaking about history what led us to this point? what major policies over the years you are talking about has led to the situation? >> guest: starting early in the early century we had tax cuts that we did not pay for bad spending increases we did not pay for. we've had two major economic crises where we had to throw money at the problems. and in addition we have an aging

society. an aging society is an expensive society because it costs were programs such as social security andd medicare tend to rise more rapidly than the gross domestic product on the financial emergencies side in the problems created by an aging society. at some point we'll have to reckon with them. looks wise? what could happen? what's the number one risk, as far as i'm concerned, is that eventually the debt will get so large that lenders both domestic and foreign will giving will begin to wonder and orient to repay it.

and as a result they will require significantly higher interest rates in order to compensate them for what they see as the risk of default. and at that point will have a financial crisis. we had a big problem when interest rates rose as high as 7%. what will happen if they rise to twice that which they have been in my lifetime? we have a serious problem for the future it all depends on the domestic lenders and foreign lenders to keep on lending of money at affordable interest rates at the deficit piles ever higher. >> you said the two candidates are ignoring the issue. they are not talking about it they are putting forth policies

that would impact deficit. what a difference in deficit twt debt and their policies? >> eight deficit is what happens every fiscal year you spent $6 trillion in our tagging forte trillion dollars the deficit of $2 trillion, what's the difference between those two? it is financed by borrowing and borrowing as the debt. i deficit occurs every year that is permanent unless you pay it. in both the candidates it's fair to say have ignored the problem. donald trump has a proposals that would make the problem even worse. kamala harris has proposed policies that would reduce the

long-term debt and add a little bit tod it. it's not a perfect symmetry. various analyses including one performed by the wall street journal just yesterday, and by the "washington post" today confirm the truck proposals will be even more expensive than the harris proposal. but what i can say safely is neither candidate would do anything to stop the t bleeding. the issue of the deficit was barely touched upon in the presidential debate last week. that's a real sign that neither the candidates or the journalistic community is particular interested in talking about this. quoth natasha agrees with the issue is a professor at yale university law school and an economist writing bigot deficit cannot buyt the number the firt presidential debate in the 1992

election were deficit came up 13 times she writes today. each candidate was pressed on their substantive plants u.s. fiscal house in order. the victor in that race enjoyedt president you achieved a surplus in the past half century. this week's debate the deficit was reference just twice to purge why is that? >> well, candidates have a hard time getting concerns about issues the american people are focused on. i2 remember the 1992 presidentl debates very clearly. among other things are the third party candidate,ho ross perot, s barnstorming around the country on that issue. as one of only two issues he ever talked about in his presidential campaign that forced both of the other candidates to respond. by the way when bill clinton took office he was very aware of

the fact 19% of the voters had voted for ross perot reflecting public concern about the budget deficit and accumulating debt. we have not seen a dynamic for some time. it's an easy issue to avoid because, as i said it's a problem that accumulates in slow motion over a great deal of time. it's not something that hits you all at once like a pandemic or financial crisis. mattt makes it a particularly dangerous problem because it is easy to ignore until you have a real crisis on your hand up her. >> he remembers the 1992 debate because he served as a former policy advisor to president clinton from 1993 to 1995 dentist in denver, colorado democratic collier up first in

this conversation go ahead. >> good morning guys, thank you for taking my call but i tend to agree with collars on the sentiment that's been pervasive this morning. i do not feel big government no matter who was in there whether democrat or republican cursor represent the people of the country care about the issue we are facing everyday projects the cost of living is impossible nowadays. i think the american people deserve so much better.so we are right now pretty much like being stuck. >> bill, what is the solution do you think here? what needs to happen to address the nation's debt? quick source of all the caller i think brought our attention their urgent everyday problems.

they are top of mind for most americans. high pricesce being first and foremost. i think it is appropriate and inevitable political leaders and candidates for office will respond to those urgent concerns him. they must. at the same time political leadership means telling people what they need to know. not just what theyt want to he. it is going to take bipartisan leadership on the deficit and debt issue to bring it to the attentionha of the american peoe that makes it impossible to ignore. this won't happen by itself. the american people are unlikely to rise up spontaneously in sight we must do something about this. they need to be persuaded that

we must do something about this. another political leadership is crucial. >> here's a viewer in florida. with the baby boomer generation passes away, while the social security and debt self correct? >> the answer is no, it will not. i do not take my word for it. every year the actuaries of the social security system responsible for running it and reporting to the americanon peoe on how it is doing quite made it very clear based on our current path we are going to need significant revenue increases or cuts in benefits to stabilize the system over time but the gap between the two is about 20%. which means if we don't do anything in the next decade,

that social security payments will abruptly decline by about 20% which should comee as a big shock to a lot of people who are relying on the system. at some point in the next 10 years, whatever we do about the broader deficit and debt situation, we are going to have to address a much more immediate and urgent crisis on the social security system and by the way of medicare as well. social security will run out of money and aboutso 2033. the whole budget. >> republican. >> caller: yes, good morning. thank you for taking my call. you probably heard that the

government should be able to eliminate a lot of the problems of paying out for social benefits. just what you are talking about. as the baby boomers decline the numbers, the number of payouts goes away down the numbers floated around to something like $70 trillion over the next 20, 25, 30 years. i just wonder how much validity is in thatt statement and how yu feel about it? >> like i suspect, just about everybody else listening to this program, i am not a world-class

expert on the social security system. i would be rude very carefully what world-class expertss have o say about it. the people who are responsible for managing the system do not agree with the idea that as the baby boomers die off, with the program will stabilize itself. it's perfectly true the baby boomers are dying off. but, as the week, i am a boomer, die off, other people will join. the number of people and social security will not go down. we'll continue to rise for the next 10 years, stabilize and rise much martial libido not go down. our population is increasing. we are still in aging society. people who are now 50 are going to start retiring in large numbers within the next decade.

would be nice to believe that people like me are dead the system will take care of itself. but nothing i have read suggest that is true. >> your reaction to the news out of the fed yesterday goes big with half-point rate cut is the headline on the wall street journal front page this morning. what impact does that happen at all on the conversation were having? interest rate decline billed the client not just for private borrowers trying to get a mortgagege but also for the federal government. that is good news in the short term. but i should also say the 50 basis point cut the half of 1% of the federal reserve board is quite worried about the signs of

weakening in the labor market. what we know about a recession is that sharply reduces revenues flowing into the government intends to produce higher deficits which will translate into higher debt. until the fed by moving as strongly as it did is trying to ward off excessive weakness in the labor market prevent that weakness from triggering ant recession. everybody hopes that they got it right. >> william in miami ohio democratic hot you are next. yes, thank you very much for taking the call. this is the old gum 89-year-old true hill. i have been a firm believer the national debt. >> william you're listening to

your tv and getting confused can you commute the television? >> i can turn it off. >> there you go. ask your question. i'm an old dumb 89-year-old hillbilly. i am notte educated like these corrupt politicians. but the national debt i've said for years and years that cannot sustain this price started paying into socialin security wn i was 14. i paid into it and flow 77. i think i'm entitled to it. but these corrupt politicians said that as an entitlement. the corrupt politicians have kept their hands out of it be social security would never have went broke. then they just keep talking about more taxes. we cannot withstand another eight join dollar deficit.

see what let's take the last point on taxes as i was that's our time at candidates plan? were you referring to their tax agenda? >> in part i was. i let me just explain the situation as i see it. we had a big tactical in 2017 the first year donald trump was president. in order to make it possible to cut taxes that significantly while complying with the budget rules that govern the united states and government, most of the tax cuts were scheduled to expire in 2025.

which is next year. until you are going have a very big debate about whether this tax cuts should be allowed toth expire, which are bring more revenue into the federal government. or whether they should be continued or even expanded. both have made proposals that would expand the tax cut. donald trump has been a much more aggressive in that way. host tax proposals would expand the deficit and debt by an additional trillion dollars over the next decade. kamala harris proposals are much more modest. in public spending deficit and debt by half a trillion dollars

over the next 10 years. but the tax debate will be the most important opportunity that the american people and the u.s. government will have two change of the fiscal course the most important opportunity that we are going to have for many, many years. we have not had enough conversations which will dominate 2025. from a lot of the tax abatement and opportunity to surface the issues i talk about in my op-ed in the editorial boards or begin to talk about was who happens. >> carolyn and minnesota republican. sweet or good morning. i have a question.

if thes social security is goig bankrupt eventually, why do we keep getting increases that's just taking more of it away. i would be happy to say don't need that raise. i wish they would ask and i know they don't do it because they don't have the people to do it. but when i worked of my company did not make enough money, we would not get a raise that year. i was fine with that why can't they do that with social security? >> thank you, bill? >> is a very interesting question. and here's the answer as i see it. there are a lot of people who worked all their lives for the didn't make much money, perhaps at low-wage jobs.

they were tired they became totally dependent on social security. it was and is their only source ofou income. now, suppose that as prices have risen over the last three and half years social security payments had remained where they were. many of these lower income people would not be able to afford their rents, their heating bills, or their grocery bills. fory them it's not something tt could have afforded to do without. as ann absolute necessity. that raises the question whether everybody should the same cost-of-living increase wherever they are the income scale. i think the idea of the people who do not need the increase

might be asked to do without it is one that is really worth considering. but as an across-the-board proposal i think it would lead to a great deal of hardship and a fierce political reaction. yes it's terrel. go ahead. are you doing? i've a little trivia for before get to my question do you know which administration had the largest cost-of-living increase? >> i can telll you that inflatin reached its peak early in ronald reagan's administration. if you force me today us as a as a percentage basis as part back in the early 1980s by them but m probably all wrong about that. what is the answer?

>> are you still there question correct yes i am here. it was richard nixon's administration for they got 13% i got this would a couple years ago under joe biden at 8.9. what do you think it would probably be this year? who. >> every year is the same. >> i'm sorry, i'm sort, an extra 25 per. >> what is your point? text michael do. actually i called to -- called about is he agree with david stockman's book don donald trump's on capitalism? because inflation there's a lot of inflation over donald trump's tenure. read $8 trillion according to david stockman donald trump was only responsible for a lot of

that inflation. they try to blame joe biden for all of this. i just wanted to know his point on that. stuart we will take that. kamala. i have not read his book. but i would distinguish between the rate of inflation which was pretty low during the trump administration. the rate of adept which was very high under donald trump. trump was not interested in a balanced budget i love debt is not quite as appropriate for the government of the united states as it may be for t someone who s buildingof massive buildings on the middle of manhattan.

that's all i can say about that. >> will hear from mark next. independent. good morning. is it true japan has more debt than china leo it to ourselves isn't social security like number one that whatever? spill it will take those questions. kamala.. this is where it gets technical. the debt figures i was citing our what's known as the debt held by the public. the social security system is part of a different category debt held by the government.

regard to the public debt last time i checked 30% was owned by foreign creditors. i honestly do not know whether japan outranks china or vice a versa. i strongly suspect their number one or number two. >> host: ed and jackson, tennessee and independent. >> good morning. i know were talking earlier that cbo responded recorded they will add $7 trillion to the economy in the next 10 years. trump's own irs i guy, ready i think is his name, $1 trillion is going uncollected in taxes.

and we spent 4.3 trillion a year in healthcare is warren buffett and charlie munger said. his healthcare swallowing the prophets because in the united states are t healthcare is tiedo employment. we have a lot of money that never talked about in 25% of the money in healthcare is wasted. can you verify them back me up on any of this? >> i've been asked to be an expert in many areas. i'm an expert in very few of them. what i can say the colors right we have by far the most expensive healthcare system in the world. i was swallowing up an increasing share of our economy with every year.

let's also healthcare that generates miracle cures, great advances in medicine, drugs, et cetera. unfortunately americans pay the full price of that because of price regulations in other countries around the world the fruits of our research are available at a much lower cost than it is to us. we do have a very broad system with our healthcare. various things haven't tried over the past few decades to rein in the rate of increase in healthcare. those efforts have had some success but it is still continuing to grow everycc years a share of our economy. and yes, the fraud that is

broadly correct or swallowing up share of the increase production the gross domestic product for the country every year. and unless and until there is a fundamental change in the way healthcare iss delivered and pad for in this country we are not going to build resolve the problem. clarksville at the brookings institution for it thank you sir as always for the conversation. >> my pleasure. ♪ sees fans at washington during our live form involving you to discuss the latest issues in government, politics, and public policy from washington across the country coming up friday morning will come at the federal spending deadline is was a congressional news of the day, first texas democratic congressman al green a member of the financial services committee and later washington republican congressman dan newhouse a member of the appropriations committee. c-span "washington journal" during the conversation