john fox is the fbi. his story. he and mr. fox were here at the fbi experience, which is what the fbi experience is our way of telling the public who we are and what we do. and introducing people to the idea that they could be a part

of us. whether you join us as an agent or a professional staff or simply somebody who knows what we do and are willing to trust us in that. the fbi experience helps you to to learn more about that. it's grew out of the fbi tour, which started in the 1930s as a bunch of exhibit cabinets outside of jager. hoover's office. and it became so popular that within years. it was the second most popular tour in dc. the president still beat us, but you know, that's okay. and over the years it has been an incredibly important way for people to learn about the fbi and to see how we work and what we do and learn a little bit about some of our bigger cases. and ultimately to learn why we do things and what we do so that they can understand it. well, we're in the hoover building in downtown d.c. on pennsylvania avenue, pretty locked down building. who's allowed in here to see this fbi experience in museum?

well, obviously, access to fbi headquarters, given the sensitivity of a lot of the information and matters that we deal with is very strong. the tour was originally made so that the public could actually come in and the sections of the building were physically, in many ways separated from the rest of fbi headquarters, post-9-11, when we had to shut it down, that changed. then when we rebuilt it as the experience, we decided to go on the model that the white house does and people are able to make reservations through their congressional representatives office to come and visit us. takes a little more pre thought and you can't just walk off the street anymore, but it does allow people to come in and get to know us and for us to show off a little bit. well, the fbi, of course, has been interest started in leveraging the latest scientific and technological changes for the investigations. we do. and since our lab was created in 1932, we have been at the

forefront of trying to bring the latest developments into the forensics world. and this exhibit shows a number of those techniques that we use in this case, simply trying to track the trajectory of bullets that were fired so that you can figure out where were they fired from, perhaps. how tall was the person shooting? you know what other things might have been involved in this? and that allows us then to actually recreate the crime scene. and that in turn allows us to to figure out exactly what happened, to describe it in court, to presented in court and eventually show how the the accused is connected to that crime. so there's a real science to that. absolutely. there is a lot of science. it and this went from, you know, back in the early 1930s, we were looking at whether you could tell if it was human or animal blood and very quickly to typing blood, you know, what is the blood type of the human blood that you found?

so you can it to victims or potential suspects to dna and the applications of dna technology revolutionize, forensic work, the trajectory of bullet trajectory is rather old in that sense. ballistics and that study have been around since the 1920s, 19 tens. but the idea of using laser pointers to help you determine the direction and the path of the bullet is something new. and in fact, you've got a display here that we can touch. bob, i'm going to go ahead and fire off the laser level's here. so you see the the the dowels up here, of course, go into the bullet holes and because they're stiff, they maintain the angle, the pointers at the end of it. and it shows where the bullet originated from and from where that is. you can tell things about how the person was holding the gun, how tall they were, how far away

they were. and that in turn gives you more clues to follow up. so the green that we're seeing, the laser green on the on the wall there is the laser beam from the pointers originating exactly. and they come in here at the top of the bookcase. you talked about dna evidence. i guess i use the generic word forensic. is that a is that a fair word to use? i think it's a fair word. it's certainly a common one in use. it entails all variety of investing options, though in the early days it was a lot of physical comparisons, you know, looking at layers of paint, you know, on a car is, you know, if you think this car was stolen, did it you know, the thieves tried to disguise it, you know, or marks and gosh, you know, how is the blood spatter and things like that? and, you know, some of those eventually get challenged.

you know, you have to basically figure out how do we make this? so that is considered valid evidence in court. what does the court want us to do, those are all things that we take into consideration. dna, of course, has been around for a long time. you know, the the early investigations for that beginning. i believe, the 1950s. but it's actual application to police work really comes of age in the late 1980s. and the fbi was at the front and center of that working with law enforcement and scientist and eventually the courts to try and figure out how best to make this that we can meet our burden of presenting constitutionally valid evidence while also making use of the latest forensic techniques, the latest scientific techniques out there, and the dna sequences are vital to all of that. well, it's become incredibly important as way of identification, as a way of showing that somebody left evidence at the scene.

fingerprints. how long have they been around here? oh, gosh. you know, the early used fingerprints in certain aspects, but it started as a law enforcement tool, started to become talked about in 1800s. mark twain wrote a book called put putting a head wilson that centers around the use of a fingerprint as an identification means for the bureau. it's in the teens and early twenties of the 20th century that it starts to really become useful through much of the 19th century there was a different system that relied on measurements of the human body and various parts of it, and the distance between eyes and things like that. but people's physiognomy changes over time too. people might look very similar, but are very different. people might have no connection whatsoever, whereas fingerprints proved to be much more identifiable with one single person and the fbi, as took over the national collection of

fingerprints in 1924, when hoover took over and became the center of the management of that that information system for the u.s. so fbi historian john fox. we look a little grainy what's going on this room is built to look like one of our surveillance setups for for many years we have used situations where we've had to record people doing bad things. back in the 1940s, for instance, we were investigating a german spy ring and we had set up the office of our informant. so that he was recording all of the interviews with the spies that he was meeting with. this one looks a bit more like a more modern hotel room and, you know, it might be the setup that we used in abscam, the effort that led to the arrest of several congressmen for taking bribes, or it could be a more recent espionage case.

and we have often had a situation where really the best evidence you can get is someone actually talking about their own crimes. and so you have to put them at their ease. you have to get them in a situation where they're willing to to share that information and expound on it for you. but, of course, they don't know that you're being filmed. so this room actually is a favorite with with folks visiting because we have our screens, obviously, where you can see what's going on in the room and then of course in the room itself people want to find out where are the cameras and they're not easy to find. they're there pinhole cameras. and so you have to really search for and one of them is in this picture that is on the wall here. and you had to pointed out to me, i not see it if you look long enough, people do tend to find them eventually. sometimes they need a hint or two. but yes this one is actually in the bottom corner of the picture. i'm not going to tell you where

it is. you have to come find it yourself. john fox walk us through the timeline that you have here in the fbi experience in the milestone notes. well, the fbi has been around for 115 years or so. we were created 1908 and so that's around where we start out with the copy of the original order by attorney general bonapa on july6 at basically announces the creation of a small force of special agents to the us attorneys and says if you need a detective, call washington. talk to stanley finch, our first chief. and from there we take that as our birthday. although really we were kind of up and running in the first days of july, which was the start of fiscal year. it takes us through a number of our cases whether, you know, it's the investigations in the 1920s and into the 1930s and the kidnaping of the lindbergh baby to our work in world war two, including our operations in

south and central america, where we were sending undercover agents to gather intelligence about nazi plots through the civil rights era and the. many issues that that arose there. we we have been involved in every major incident in our nation's history since we were created. i'm intrigued by the shrinking world 1978 to 1988. what where did you come up with that moniker? well, the idea is that in the seventies and eighties, the world seemed to be coming closer together. we're on the verge of the computer revolution. the networked computers will be off, of course, in the 1980s, in the internet, for instance, even closer together. but the seventies were showing that we were often interacting with things going on in the world, whether it was terrorist actions or the beginnings of financial crimes, or simply the

number of people trying hijack u.s. airplanes and flying to cuba in the early 1970s, which really sets off a trend for a time. and obviously that carries us through the cold war and the end of the cold war, and then things really take off. we realized that we needed to have a lot more international representation because of just how closely things were, whether it was organized criminal operations, ins, major drug groups, counter espionage, counterterrorism and obviously cybercrime and cyber espionage start becoming major issues for us as well, especially post-9-11. 911 gets its own section. it does, you know, given some of the the sensitivities there there we don't show it, but we do have artifacts from at the moment, the world trade center and, of course, the shanksville bombing. when we do a redesign, will also

have something from the pentagon as well to represent just how important. that case was for us, for america, probably half of us who are working that one investigation in the days afterward. and of course, it led to increases in our authorities. it led to increases in our budget, led to changes in our personnel. as we brought on more analysts and tried to integrate across our bureau and working ourselves in as really full partners of the intelligence community rather than sitting on the outside as we did. what mystery is there behind that triumph of law? let's see. let's ask who, as a young attorney became in 1924, director of the g-man. there is nothing mysterious about the manner in which the federal of investigation works. its formula is a simple one intensive training, carefully investigated and highly efficient personnel plus rigid requirement in regard to conduct intelligence and integrity.

so as we looking at the fbi experience john fox here is an exhibit about jack hoover and you write he was and remains controversial figure in american history. very much so. on the one hand, hoover is reasonably credited with building an incredibly important organization in so many ways, he made the fbi what it was. on the other hand, he also showed us where we can really mess up, where we can really abuse the trust, the authority that given by the american people to them and uphold the constitution. i'm thinking specifically here, of course, on the matters concerning, dr. king, especially and the abuses of his role and his access to try and damage dr. reputation as something that put a black mark on this for all time. that's why he has become so

controversial. 1924, he took over the. didn't it? it's been 100 years and when he took it over, the agency was very small, largely unknown to law enforcement in the twenties at the federal level, people thought of the bureau of prohibition that in the treasury department and hoover came in at a time when the attorney general had just been dismissed. the director of the bureau just been dismissed and immediately began to work on a series of reforms under attorney general stone. and by 1935, we had become the pinnacle law enforcement in the country. we were top agency, and that reputation was maintained through hoover's career, especially agent, must be a good marksman and have the courage to shoot it out with the most venomous of public enemies, you must know how to take fingerprints and what to do with them afterwards. you must know that no clue, no matter how seemingly

unimportant, can be overlooked. he must have constantly before him the fact that science is a bulwark of criminal investigation. and you must realize that no case ever ends for the federal of investigation until it is solved and closed with the conviction of the guilty or the acquittal of the innocent. john fox how do you address here at the fbi experience when the fbi gets it wrong, it's not always easy, but frankly, it comes down to, first of all, just admitting it. and i think we do try to do that. i this is a story about how we work and i think our is largely one of success and dedication to the mission. but we do those matters that sometimes show us not at our best. i think that the the exhibit hoover gives us a chance to talk about that. i think some of our espionage exhibits, because we can talk about betrayals of robert hanssen, you know, a highly fbi counterintelligence agent.

these are things that have to recognize. so we are an agency of humans and we've made some big mistakes at times. our story overall, though, has been one where we are protecting our fellow americans and upholding our constitution and its privilege for me to be able to tell that story, but again, to make that part of it makes sense, i have to admit the other part to some i spend more talking about some of those things than i may like. some days, but it's an important thing to do. so mr. fox here at the fbi experience y is here in new york police department vehicle. well, every single case we work ends up bringing us into contact with law enforcement across the areas that we're in. federal, state local, tribal. we have to work with them every day. we have overlapping jurisdictions. we have common interests and concerns and all timidly.

it's the best way of of tackling problems. so this whole gallery is meant to show those partnerships from, patches on the walls of the thousands of different police stations. we work, too, of course. a police cruiser from an nypd work with them every day. this one actually has license plate reader. that, of course, ties into some of our databases as well as as, you know, over the years, because of our role in basically the nation's criminal identification and criminal history records, we have been sharing that information across the board with law enforcement and everybody has to tap into it. it really becomes a thing that brings together in trying to protect nation. and that's the nci, the national crime information center that all of the various databases that we have at our criminal justice information service. is 2024. it's our hundredth anniversary year for our identification

division, which eventually became our criminal justice information services division and back in 1924, the bureau took over taking care of the nation's criminal history records, basically criminalized information records, fingerprints, birthday on cards and so forth. and we have been managing them ever since and then bringing in those records, those identification records from law enforcement across the country and even the world, sharing information about fugitives and who looking for because they committed crimes against, us taking information from other saying we're looking for these criminals because they committed crimes against us and sharing that information and see if we can reach a common agreement on finding that person. now, do state and local officials attend the fbi academy or can they attend the fbi academy? the fbi academies opened for law enforcement across the united. there's obviously an application and selection process, but it's been in effect since 1935 when we opened up our first national

academy classes. i like the way louis freeh, our director in the 1990s, used to put he we need to develop cop to cop bridges and it's these interim nation ships that allow us to know what they do what their authorities what tools they have at their command. it allows them to know what ours are. and then we can work together to common issues. the number of task forces, for instance that we are involved in has since the early ones of the 1980s, the you know, and those started out in new york, the joint terrorism task force, first bank robbery task force, and they became the model for law enforcement cooperation across the nation. the first ten most wanted list came in 1949. there was a reporter who had approached us and said, i would like to do a story on some of the people that hunting for could you. give me a list of the fugitives that you're looking for. and so we gave them a list ten

and it became so popular the next year, we decided to make it a regular feature and we used it as a combination of both investigative tool and public city campaign to basically let the american people know what these criminals out in your midst and we're trying to find them and to we'd really like it if you had some information that you could share with us over the years, we've put more than 400 some people on the list. we've caught the vast majority them and a good third of those captures have been because of tips from the public, including two people who were taking the fbi tour. is the list that see behind you? is that a current list we this is our most current list. keep this up to date. and so we capture someone you will see a little sign that says captured and when that person's off the list and we are debating we will actually keep that slot open until the new person has been identified. we put in 50 years ago, 1974,

patty hearst. what happened? well, patty hearst was the daughter, william randolph hearst, a wealthy, very well-known californian. she was kidnaped by a terrorist group known as the symbionese liberation army that had grown up in california out of some of the remnants of the more radical elements of the late sixties. and so they had engaged in bank robberies. they were associated with killing a public official in california. and they had decided that they would make demands of hearst, that he provide money for the poor and, other things in basically for the release of his daughter. but you know, as time went on and she was not found, she ended up saying that she was joining the group and was caught in video and witness sightings, of

course, engaging in some of their activities, robbing banks and things like that. and eventually was found. and so then put on trial for some of those activities. and the fbi in that case? well, the fbi was the lead agency because it was a kidnaping and because it was such a prominent affair and because the sla was a domestic terrorist group, we were trying to track them across country. but given their small compartmentalize nature and, basically their their lack in some ways of public exposure took us a long time to finally track them down. did bonnie and clyde john dillinger did, they put the fbi into the minds of the american people in many ways, the early thirties. the fbi certainly came into the public's. culture basically because of the gangster era. bonnie and clyde wasn't our biggest case per se, but we certainly were involved. and our agents, especially down

in louisiana, were helping to try and track them down. at the time, dillinger jr, though, was in some ways a national phenomenon. you know, when he broke out of jail in early 1934, his, his style, his escape catapult them into to newsworthiness and it was a time when because of the gangster crime going on the attorney general said there's this war and crime going on and we're losing and he put the bureau after them and in confronting dillinger jr finally in chicago he tried to escape and as he's turning and pulling his gun out he was shot by fbi agents of a sudden the fame dillinger had seemed to accrue in the transferred to the and it was light of that that we brought down number of other gangsters that hollywood started to take an interest in us the congress allowed us to actually use the name the federal bureau

of investigation for the first time before that we had gone by a couple of different names and all of a sudden it's the the bureau that is the number one law enforcement organization in the land, and it's led by the number one law enforcement leader, j edgar hoover that tommy gun, that iconic tommy gun that you have on display, is that a gun or is that an fbi weapon? well, that one specifically, i'm not sure. we had some that we purchased because we were trying to keep up with the bad guys and of course, the bad also had some they usually didn't purchase them. they tended to steal them from others. and so i would suspect that that's actually one of ours. i know the last one we had that was identified, fired as actually having been owned by a police station, was returned to that station when we realized. so, you know, it becomes a matter of whose property actually is it. but we talked a little bit about 1974. and patty, but 1972 to 1974, the

watergate era. what was the fbi's role? you could do a whole museum on that. i'm but you have a small display here at the fbi experience. the fbi was the principal investigative in the watergate matter when the burglary happened in june of 1972 was only a couple of weeks after j. hoover died immediately, the washington field office was on the case because there were some odd things about it. one, it was targeted. the democratic national committee headquarters, which, you know, is unusual. two, of course, they were caught with electronic surveillance equipment and other things. and three, their the origins of the five people arrested were kind of odd and seemed to suggest perhaps shady government ties to some extent. and the bureau became actually did some very good investigative work. but of course some of our

management in those days also got pulled into the politics of the day. and acting director l. patrick gray ran of things because of some things he did. and, of course, mark felt, who was a senior administrator under hoover, and then under gray, was one of the people. and in dc leaking to the press about the matter and potentially compromising the case. so although people remember the impeachment hearings of nixon in many ways it was the buildup of the evidentiary base from our own investigation that really showed what going on. so john fox here at the fbi experience, it looks like we've entered the 21st century. well this exhibit is to our cyber crime, cyber espionage jurisdictions. and of course, those have been around for a while. our first cyber espionage case back in the 1980s. and, of >> and, of course, issues with

computers as a mode or tool for crime has been around as long, certainly if not longer, but really as the internet exploded, as the world became connected with so many electronic signals and asback robbers and terrorists and spies and so many others took to them, to basically use for their -- their activities, we had to get involved and certainly since september 11th, since the 2001 investigations, our role in this field has exploded. >> the e-crime and e-warfare,es has it changed the mission? >> doesn't change the mission. protecting and upholding is still vital to what we. do it does sometimes create new issues because simply the bulk

and the ease of which signals electrony, evidence for court and, of course, all of the constitutional protections that we need to integrate to cost what we do. on the other hand, we aree looking at crimes that have been committed by other means. human trafficking, espionage, even terrorist activities, fraud have all been conducted in a noncomputer world. but the computer adds a new mention. is it a difference in kind and different in quantity, it's probably some of both. >> what's the case studies that you have onju the walls? >> it's just walking through basic investigation showing how the hacking of healthcare facility basically we get investigated out and how many

different permeations flow from that. incredibly field because of all that's involved. at the end of the experience- >> when he was fleeing from the boston marathonon where he and s brother had set off two homemade explosive devices that killed three at the finish line and then they got into fights with law enforcement as they tried to escape, had been injured and was hiding out in this boat in massachusetts. >> which was parked in a recess dense. refer in a house basically the people in the area were told stay indoors, law enforcement federal and state were local were looking for him and the

owner of the boat noticed that the cover was out of place and there was some other signs suggesting maybe some boat he was in there and he informed the police who came and then something happened. they thought he had fired at them, they fired back and was actually hidden behind the engine black in the back of the boat and despite all the gun holes in the back here, he was at least not seriously wounded at that point and the fbi was called in, negotiators worked to basically get them to surrender and come back out so that he could be arrested and receive medical help. >> now, this is in the display about multiagency work. first of all, what it was fbi's role when it came to the boston marathon? >> in the bossan marathon, of course, it's a major national event and so we provide basically federal security help, now, the organization of that is

a task force and their different levels and so forth, we play a role in that and once it was determined it was a terrorist action we become the lead agency and so we would oversee the investigation, but the actual manned hunt was, of course, an ongoing thing and the local police were very much interested in helping out, so everybody was looking for the bombers. >> what was the process of getting this boat from the owners, people who lived in watertown, massachusetts? >> as you can see given all the damage the insurance companies basically declared it this is trash and so they paid off the policy to the owner, took possession to the boat and offered it to us and since we were looking to highlight some of our big investigations in the last couple of years, this certainly qualified and also enabled, of course, to talk about those cooperative efforts because we've got a motorcycle from the boston pd, we have in

another part, of course, a cruiser from nypd and it allows us to show that we work with federal -- local and state tribal law enforcement really across the country. >> what i noticed in reading the -- the information about this investigation is that the two bombers, their names were never mentioned. >> we triedcu to focus on how we work with law enforcement, of course, you know, you look at the bombers names, we certainly -- they roll off, you know, tragically, the tips of our tongues because we spend so long developing the evidence against hem, presenting to it the courtu and brig it forward but in this case we really wanted to focus on how law enforcement security in this country can't be done without all levels interacting together and working together. >> we've been recognizing people who have tied in the line of duty for generations in the fbi,

started out with people who lost their lives in -- adversarialha combat and had been investigating and tracking him down to a parking garage where he was picking up a car and a day when shanahan was not careering personal revolver.we we eventually were able to tractor win down and he got sentence today death for the murder. >> how many do you know offhand how many fbi agents have lost their lives in the line of duty? >> well, well over a hundred. i know we are about due to add another 8, tragically we have been losing a lot of agents and professional staff recently due to 911 related investigative illnesses from the particular matter and other conditions of the very scenes at the pentagon

and the trade centers and they've developed cancers -- wouldn't have developed otherwise and they've been proving very lethal. >> september 11th, 2001, how many agents did you lose, do you know offhand? >> we have added close to 20 at this point and i expect we will be adding more in the years to come. >> i wanted to ask you about an earlier agent, her name was seila regan. >> sheila was the first male to tie in the line of duty, were traveling back to dc to conduct their truth, regan was actually the body guard for the wife of the attorney general at the time and so she was on duty and plane went town and killed everybody on board. >> first male agent lost.

>> first female agent lost ini the line of duty, yes. >> you honor k9 partners. >> we use k t partners from bomb sniffers to drug sniffers to electronic sniffers. we also, of course, use them for various, more physical issues and -- and the case here, of course, the one dog was killed in the line of truth and so we do recognize that as well. >> john fox, fbi historian, thank you for walking us through the fbi experience and sharing it with our c-span viewers. >> thank you, we look forward to sharing with as many people we can over the coming years. >> c-span, where history unfolds daily. in 1979 c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies and today we continue to take you to congress and other public policy

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