at the beginning of the book called foundation of our national identity. why do you go back to luther and the founding of the country? when you talk about immigration? well, i think very important because we always talk about as a country of immigrants. and i think many people misunderstand that as what does that mean? and some argue, oh, we're not so i think it's very important to talk about something because america, to a immigrant like me, means so much more. it's not a just a country. we come, make a living, raise our family. it's a country we represent the ideal. i know that's kind of is now very popular nowadays, but it's actually it's mean something to especially people like me live in a i grew up in this very tourism so that's the regime that's why i think it's important to go back to see america's founding. it's not just a group of people. right. that ruled on the mayflower here. they brought the west.

and so some of the best ideas, western civilization, you know, the religious freedom, you know, the libertine property rights, the brother, all these ideas to these lands and establish something with giving us hope and then generate action. so people, immigrants came to pursue that same dream. and with our collective effort as true and also a combination, a collective effort as well as individual, you know, rugged individualism that we make. this is one of the great, the greatest i should the greatest country in the world. so that's i think it's important that we go back to very early to set the record straight. why america? you know, it's such ideal, such a beacon of hope for people with so many different skin, beautiful language, you know, very different food. but we identify as america's long before even, you know, you that you're an immigrant. what's your story. i'm an immigrant from a china. i was born and raised in china.

i came to this country in 1996 as a student and i became a u.s. citizen in 2013. so. between 1996 to 2013, this is a 70 year period i went through almost all the major legal jungles, our legal immigration system. i was so fed up with it, i almost gave it up. but again, i started, you know, the american way is, not just to sit back about state houses, do not go right the american ways. is there something not right. i should fix it. you know, i'm a citizen, not i shouldn't fix. so that's a problem for me to write this to, to talk about not only the history of immigration, but also how can we make this system better that benefited our country as well as creating win win for immigrants. now after 1996, did you return to china? i returned to visit, but i never returned to this. now that you're citizen, can you

go back? oh, yes, but they probably not going to like me very much. let's go back to the beginning of your book the broken welcome mat. what do you think the role of religion in america's immigration system has been or the importance very? much so, i think the role of religion because the it's the in my book i spent a lot of time to describe early immigrants that were really driven by it because they were persecuted for what they back in europe. so they really tried to seek this promise a new age promise that they can practice what they believe freely without suffering persecution. and they want to do that for other people as well. and so religion has its fundamental importance in our country. our countries first, i would say that's almost a birth mark was our country is it has this religions religion essentially christian attitude slavery. but at the same because our founding fathers had good had

the you know insight that does christianity is not a they never that the christian ideas of national religion but as you all were they were all believers or at least they believe a higher super being oversees people. and i think that's important that's that's what's driving the moral gives them the moral clarity. so, you know, we how they designed the declaration there how the declaration of dependance was written how the constitution was written. there's such apostle of the moral clarity in it. and every time when they make those major decisions, they, you know, they're driven that moral clarity that's came from the influence or the providence. i do believe that. well, obviously immigration is a contemporary issue. but in your book, you talk about some immigration legislation from 1790, 1795. 1798. what kind of immigration

legislation are we talking about back then? historically, so historic. we our country's immigration had. so there are two aspects that make it because i think the people who do like to study history tend to misrepresent it. there's there's definitely one aspect that is very libertarian our country's very first immigration law was very simple people that back then did not write thousands of pages of legislation. it was a very simple the basically our founding father just wanted a any immigrants is welcome long as they demonstrate good moral and also a white person. unfortunately part was in there but it also really emphasized good moral character and just from time to time there was a residency requirements. some time or two years, or sometimes five years or five years. the reason they have this residency requirement, our founding fathers will be expanded. although roman history, it would be kind of roman history and

they learned this on the roman history that you want the citizens have a stake in the state. so that's why they want to give new immigrants time to build up familiarity with our country's philosophy and this law they can swear in to become naturalized us citizens. that's what the residency for. so other than that, the immigration law has been very simple for decades, a hundred years. then gradually became more and more complicated. and that's one that does this byzantine system we're live in today was the of every six succession of a of governments have building out more and more bureaucracy immigration. so the more and this is the funny part it's not funny for immigrants but the funny part is every time add another layer to the bureaucracy, they always is doing it for the benefit of the immigrant. they want to take care. this is special. who this special needs that

special needs that special. but what they end up doing is making it so count, placated with such a bureaucracy that it's actually hurt immigrants just let me just give you a quick example. two years ago, there were a group of indian american software engineers protesting in silicon. what's your reason for protest? because some of them, based on the estimates from, the uscis, the government agency in charge of citizenship, a green card based on the u.s.a., is estimate some will never see a green card until. have happy win for like over 100 years to see a green card. these are people who are very educated, have good experience. they're working for like microsoft, google, amazon, and they have the families very well educated. their law abiding citizens. they love america. but we're making them to wait for over 100 years to give them a green card. that's just incredible and

unfair. and it is the of bureaucracy supposedly helping immigrants supposed to help america and end up helping neither helen raleigh the next big change in immigration law came in the 1880s. why was that? well it was because. it has a lot to do with with me. so this book that that special chapter sub chapter about the citizens, it's going to give you a very emotional of about chinese immigrants history in this country. it means a lot to me as a chinese immigrants because because of today we're facing a different kind of discrimination that often said, oh, we're part of america. we're all you know, we didn't give much to this country. we're just come here to take advantage of things.

that's why i think it's very important to set record straight that the early chinese immigrants helped build america. you know, we built the real world. and, you still just railroad the agriculture kind of food. yes, agriculture, industry. it will not cut california. it would never become to become the breadbasket of united states. even now, the chinese immigrants, japanese immigrants korean immigrants who build the levees, you know, standing water, deep waters, you know, collecting dirt with barrels with hints. so so i think it's it's very important. what do we see happening? eight, eight, eight. 1880 was the discrimination against the chinese because they were blamed labor union. canadian. chinese immigrants for stealing jobs for so their willingness to do anything at any wage in order to survive and then so they persuade the democrat party

representatives in 1882 they passed the chinese exclusion act. it's the only immigrant asian law specifically targeted one ethnic group, especially after group. how instrumental they helped build cross, you know, transcontinental railroad that was basically a speed of the united states into modern era connect the east coast to west coast of their thousands of chinese immigrants died for doing that. and the communities finish that work they were pushed out. they were told you can never become citizen of this country. you give your blood, sweat, a life to how long was that exclusion in place? the exclusion act lasted until the second world war. a towards the end of the second world war, when states became ally with china and went into war against the japan.

that's when the united states decided to move to the, you know, basically cancel the exclusion act. now you report that. from 1790 to 1870, about 9 million immigrants came into the country. after that. did it slow down or speed up? it's definitely slowed down again. zero. you and this is a wave. this is this is why i think it's important you look at the waves of immigrants immigration because there's always this a push and pull the push of all the factors immigrants home country. normally because it was economic you know devastation you know or persecution for various reasons like religious persecution they'll push people won't to leave their country. and believe me, it takes a special kind of person with with a lot of courage to want to leave single, single family the

language, the culture of the middle, to go somewhere. so so it has to be devastation to push people out, to want to make that journey. and then there was a poll that just a poll and push out factory and then there's a present generation after they came here, they became established. then they consider themselves as native in the sense that you know they have to live here. then they joined the natives. the fear to say oh this new camp newcomers, you know, they are willing to work for anything for dirt cheap wage. they consider them as economic a threat. and they they seem to oh, there's a very limited economic pie. so if they're willing to, you know, do anything, then we can have a smaller even though that's not what america is about. so so you see this every time we you see a big right after a big immigration wave, then you see this very nativist approach to try to push people out to say we

need a set of various we can't just admit any, but, you know, too many people, you know, we need to jobs in america. we see this argument again and again throughout the history helen raleigh in your book, the broken welcome mat. you spend a bit of time talking about the 1924 immigration act signed by calvin. what did that do? well, it's basically a drastically the quota for immigrants from a united states and. basically, this is right after the big wave. so it's basically you can see from the statistics that the immigrant endured the number of immigrant united states does is greatly reduced, you know, basically plunging to a deep, deep poverty. and that we also, as a society show of that of that act. there's also very strong. so the chinese exclusion act that we talk about it was initially targeted to chinese

immigrants and it only targeted to chinese immigrants to prevent chinese immigrants to become u.s. citizen. but in the 1920s, during wave of really isolationist movement, not only the numbers of european immigrants dropped, they also the exclusion act to basically became the asian exclusion act. like any engagement with some, any asian countries are not allowed to become u.s. citizens. so it's this whole isolationist and southern were restricted to, weren't they? yes, yes, yes. what did the great depression do to immigration, to the united states? i think in the great depression? what so time when the economic disaster was such as the great depression happened, because before that there were other economic crises to every thought when something like that, people became very fearful, which understandable because you see

massive layoffs. you know, people here, u.s. citizens, they struggle to support families. they struggle to find a jobs. so whenever we experience economic crises, cycles like that the isolationist will win the day this you will see more isolationist talk, more populist talk about we don't need the immigrants because. william have enough jobs for america. like i said it's understandable but it's definitely not as we can see the time use them america's economic system is about we have ability as a free people we the ability to grow the pie is not limited to the size of pie. so. you use things to limit the size of pie. you in the human capital is a barrier that you never going to go to pie. you're still going to shrink everybody, going to have smaller and less. so so i think again to give immigrants have proven to the rest of america that we are here to help grow the pie.

1940 was the alien registry asian act and in 1952, the word white was removed from immigration law. yes, that was a tremendous accomplishment. even though i do not particularly like the law, it still has a very limited quota for asian immigrants. but i think it's a giant a step in the right direction. that asian sort of first time for over a long period time other asian immigrants like who were not born here can finally apply and have opportunity to become a naturalized citizen. so it means a lot. and you can see you get your chart because that you move immigration from especially to asian and south asia area you can see that number just gradually going up from that period, 1965. now we're getting into more contemporary times. there was a major overhaul or

add on to the immigration law. how would you describe that? well, a profoundly impact for law. again, i still do not like it, but it's a profoundly impactful because we haven't changed much since then. so is it basically laid out it does framework where working with right now so you did a couple things. one is it's really emphasize family reunification as the primary of u.s. immigration system. this is very important because before that was not in the main goal, but after that it has become a major goal and it has major ramifications of a lot of problems we're facing today. so that's the one. number two is it's also have this giving this a priority to basically divide the people based on different priorities within family category and like, you know, if you're a parents, your spouse or children or are you're older, younger than 21, then you wait. time is different. you know, this is what decided this system, this this is the

one i like of this act is for the first time also allow for employment immigration but. i like to see more of it but this one because it's so emphasized reunification, it's limited to about a 2020 5%. and so it's a small it's a small portion of this bigger pie and the third part is this is the first time? well it's not a first time introduce a quota, but is the first time introduce a big quota. so nowadays we to about a 1 million legal immigrants each year and now quota has barely changed since 1965. so really we're now living under the umbrella of 1965 law, which also told you it's really about time we updated because it's been a long time and that was signed by lyndon johnson, 1986, ronald reagan signed immigration legislation which did what he basically gave a what's so called an amnesty.

he basically did their trade off. so he was working with the democrats majority congress. so basically the trade off was the democrat was supported. the border security, you know, measures that that he had that the republicans advocate and each change that he gave amnesties to illegal immigrants at a time was at a country i think he and his party underestimated because he was a key and the republicans were confident that you know you wait just give amnesty to everybody inside the border then will will not have much illegal immigration problem. i think he made them mistake that he didn't understand immigration law is also about incentives. right. giving incentives, incentive, good behaviors. people will follow the law if. you incentive, bad behaviors. you will see more of it. and that's it. unfortunately, that's exactly what did. and so since then, the illegal

immigrants number of illegal you move to united states keep going up helen raleigh given the short history that we've gone through here, where does that leave us today with regard to immigration? we're in the mess. and i think there is there needs to be a national of urgency to solve it and especially in the last a couple of years, we have regions stuck to the open border policy. obviously a total failure not only is a total failure, but has also poisoned the political will to reach a immigration reform. compromise from sides, especially from the right, because as illegal immigrant immigrants, it's very frustrating to me that we don't have a voice in this debate because every time you turn on the news channel, everything you read, you know, you're writing every discussion with somebody else because every county is not a border town, all people can

think up a talk about are illegal immigration. nobody wants to talk about illegal immigration, but i fundamentally believe unless we solve have this efficient, workable legal immigration system also good writing center to have people come on the front door and then we know who's coming here bring what skill sets and the experience we need to create a win win situation unless we create a path like that where continually incentivized illegal behaviors. so i really, really want us to come come back to focus on discussing how can we set up our legal immigration to also the right incentives to come some doors and not so much to come to the back doors. i mean, what we know how this it's a mess well the first two items in the republican platform of for the 2024 election number seal the border stop invasion number two carry out largest

deport tation in american history. what do you think of those? so i think those are the very first bullet point. the part sort of the first bullet point has a like a two parts. why seal the border? and what's the second one? to seal the border and stop migrants invasion and the word invasion invasion. i do not like the word invasion because we know we know majority of them are economic migrants. i mean, yes, there are definite bad actors with malicious to america know we we know that too. and we don't know how many of them. but i can guarantee you it's a small number that does not mean they're going to cause harm they still have the capability to cause a big harm. but a majority of the immigrants we know, we talk, they are the ones who come here for economic reasons. so they are not they go army of you know, of evading army, i think is a condescending to call them invasion. but i do agree. but i do agree that we need to strengthen our border because right now, you know, public

policy is always about a trade off. right. so when we have lawlessness border, then you have a border agent that you are supposed protect our border screening bad guys out. now they're all in process center to how will people to you know process immigrants for economic migrants and not protecting our border so. something must be done. so i can totally agree with the first half, the first one point. but i, i really wish the republic could come find a different term to describe it because on the immigration issues. you probably have a hard time to win over those immigrants and america. you know, part of america because of that reason we need to learn to talk about immigration. this better. and then the second one, i definitely disagree on deportation. deportation. i think we should we definitely should deport people who commit a crime or people who always find that people have a criminal

history or they commit a crime in america. we should deport them immediately. that's not true. but i would unfortunately, in the last three and a half years, joe biden. culture, 10 million people. and we don't know many of are where they are and then it's already already started down i think a mass deportation it's it's a fantasy i don't know how these are that like logistically workable right so and i think you again we talk poison the well for political compromise the immigration issue is not a left and right issue it's a national security issue it's an economic issue it's a issue that touches on so many americans, so many towns, you know, we need to compromise from both sides. we cannot continue do or say things that are poison. the political to come to the middle to do this because even nobody's doing anything seems only going to get it worse everywhere is seen that in the last year three and a half years

we as a country cannot afford to keep going on like this. this is the second edition of the broken welcome mat. what did you update? i learned a lot about the illegal immigration. just forgive me what's happened. the last issue, three and a half years. and i also updated some a policy especially on the asylum a part in my first edition. i do not think was as a big deal. so i a very simple solution to say, oh, we should review it. but in new edition i actually you agree to let us go back to the history, see how especially if i can you a quick example on the company the miners rights. it was towards the end of the george w bush towards the end of his second presidency that the u.s. congress passed the anti human trafficking laws. basically, there's a a clause there to say, oh you weak users

on company minor across the border illegally we must protect them not to send them back again we're talking about incentives so once that law came into effect, even though it was all the good intention to protect minors, that it became an incentive for those traffickers as well as these families who desperately escape their home countries economic conditions to minors across the border. so now we have this huge problem of hundreds of thousands of children came, you know, across the border illegally and the trump administration, you know, you heard there's you not it's it's not a necessary accurate description. the pictures overhyped of kids in page you know discussion and the recently last week at the congressional hearing and whistleblowers of access at hhs homeland security came forward and talk about how the biden

administration they were so desperate to avoid of the op ed optics kids in the cage so they released kids prematurely without without a lot of a vetting security value on who they released the kids to. so now there's this whistleblower came forward. it turns out that we are our government are releasing kids, minors to, emissary, gang members, drug dealers, human traffickers or release them to became child or released into prostitution. so instead of protecting the kids and we're choosing the laws intention to actually fact you set up contact matches work here created a humanitarian crisis on minors. so this this is you know again we have to go back to how we write each law and what's it's intended consequences so that that's a section i really update

quite a bit here's book it's called the broken welcome >> here's the book, told "the broken welcome mat", america's un-american immigration policy, and how we should fix it. the author, helen raleigh. thanks of being with us. >> thank you, peter. >> if you're in join booktv then sign-up for our newsletter using the qr code on the screen to see the schedule of upcoming programs, author discussions, book festival and more. booktv every sunday on c-span2 or anytime online at booktv.org television for serious readers here . >> begins on c-span2 on intellectual feast. every saturday american history tv document america's stories, and on sundays booktv brings you the latest nonfiction books and authors. funding for c-span2 come from these television companies and

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about technology, the mixture of technology in money and cryptocurrencies and life after google. i think you interviewed me about life after google. >> several times. your most recent book, how would you describe "the israel test: how israel's genius enriches and challenges the world"? >> well, it's history. it's philosophy. it's the nature of capitalism. it's the sources of our superabundance. it's -- "the israel test," the new addition is introduced by dennis prager, and dennis has prager university and they have an