outside, people are allowed to benefit and make money. he came up in the federal reserve have youyo back the fed would prop up the stock market and we saw it repeatedly where they became very conscious of the stock market. the stock market was confirmed on the outside but will do what they wanted. on the downside was that they would protect that capital so i think that's what is not 20 is what it on the downside the fed would be there. ... feel that their losses are going to be

socialized. but the profits are all for them to capitalize. so you are a fund manager, you work in finance. that's been that's been career. you've seen this play out from the inside is and you sort of have embraced this sort of austrian business cycle theory of like booms and busts caused by monetary policy dislocations in the long term caused by this. what in your career? when did you have this aha moment. where you realized what was going on. because i just assume that giving you a front row seat to all of this, you had some moment or some time when this when you became convinced this thesis. yes, exactly i think that, you know, like it's happened over time. i mean, it started out in my childhood. i trace it back to the 1980s. i grew up in india, which was then a very socialist country. and i saw that for me, capital in america was all about giving people more economic freedom,

right? so it started off with a love for capitalism, but it came from a sense of economic freedom. but the government playing a role. so i'm not a true austrian in a way that i think there is a role for the government to be played. the government needs to provide a basic welfare. the government needs to intervene in crises. but then i saw in america over time that how the government's kept on increasing and the government now started to do things with socialist india once used to do. that's really what sort of got to me that that is what the american brand of capitalism was all about. now you speak about the aha moment. see that a couple of things which really disturb me. one was that in the 2000 and tens, even once economic recovery got going, the federal reserve then was still seemed determined to engage in policies such as quantitative easing because it felt that as long as inflation was dead, it could put as much money in the system was

required to try and prop up the economy. so that was a very new policy. why should the fed be doing that, which is to throw all sorts of money at the economy, all because it feels that consumer price inflation defined in a very narrow way is contained. but what about asset price inflation? what about the fact that property prices are surging, which puts homes outside the reach of the average american? so that was the first moment in the 20 tens when i felt something was wrong. and then the idea of this book really took hold in the pandemic that at the time of the pandemic the american government decided to shut businesses >> the american. >> skyeded so shut businesses downwn and monetary and huge, ad

ig would say who's benefiting from the stimulus and a lot of checks ended up in people's pockets who were earning more than $100,000 a year. the third crippling credited companies like berkshire hathaway and well to do corporations and then this incredible explosion in wealth all the billionaires are making tons of wealth sitting at home and the amount of money injected into the system is

un-pressokented and then really i gotth thinking that what's happened to capitalism and this is an economy and this is a country and, america that i was soat optimistic on and came to this country and i wrote such optimistic things about this country. min many the bottom are stressed out and their incomes are getting squeezed and squeezed by high inflation we've had and squeezed bier the ceiling that the rich are benefiting and they don't have the equality of opportunity and squeezed by the fact that all of the liquidity led to incredible increase in property p prices but it's put a new home for the average american out of reach.

>> secondly the same big companies are able to lobby in washington given their power and the money to write regulations is in such a wayi try to show

the regulate state is hurting the average person and

benefiting the big entrenched businesses with their money part and influence part in washington. >> yeah, it's certainly about 16% but it's certainly feeling like a lot more because if someone was born to work all you're ever going to do on your job.

>> at the most charitable thing to say about the government is it's playing whac-a-mole and putting something down in here and something pops up somewhere else.

the ports of entry customer of government spending and this constant fed that says we need to increase the government's increasing debt and deficit will lead to a crisis some day. that's not happened and so unfortunately that argument is state and discredited and fear monomerring about the rising debt and deficits and some

people are worried about it. declining economic mobility in america and the average person feels they cannot go up the ladder and only 35% of americans

feel that they're going to be bankrupting their parents when a number generation or two ago is close to 70, 80% of average american that's a dis-pressing feeling and to make the feeling that why are people feeling depressed but at the super official level, things appear fine. and that's the connection i'm trying to make in the book. again, put it >> you went from license to now a more open free market and not as much as either of us would like but certainly

in the right direction and we've seen like tremendous benefits and the problem of course and the rest of the world is we have this sort of myth that mow they're embracing a lot of big government policies including some aspects of planning and industrial policy and people on the left like bernie sanders, aoc and other who is were saying we've tried this radical la saya saint marie fair policies and hasn't led to the outcomes and you're writing convincingly that we didn't have this and used the

term neoliberal resolution was more of a revolution in sort of terminology or an idea rather than actual policy. >> yeah, it's important to look at the evidence and i come from a space where i'm very looking at them and going to conquer people's lives and the reason that happened was because, yes, there were a few there was a

decline when reman dame to power and government spending and neverr really on a net basis and not decreased and we've got this depression e we're in a new because of what was happening outside of the western countries and a lot of former socialists or embrace of free trade for sure and also imuation and that led to the impression that we'resi in some deliverable era and took off and became big ande partly becausef

ai some m financials market deregulationon and i show in the book the main reason the markets have done so well is parking lotly because of major reasons that the fact there's this upsides and if i weres and companies are benefiting from the fed's policies and they have the government's back and lookk at all the data objectivity and what's happened to government spending because ofer gkp and oy bone up since the 1980s. what happened to the debt and deficit and gone up significantly since the 1980s and now we're in a situation where thehe government is runnig a deficit, the u.s. government of 6% of gdp and doubled down from the 3% of gdp kind of deficit that wee use to run in

first 00 years of the economic history and government really ever ran a deficit and when there was a major crises on a war. for the last 50 years, american government has run a budget deficit of 40 to 50 years with a surplus of five off the years mostly during the clintons

for me the immediate focus so point out in the book is what's the history of capitalism and what happened and let's feel that definition of insanity is to keep sort of co-ing the same thing and expecting different

outcomes. vascularized someone like trump came, in 2016 and talking and deregulation and talking the language of cog something for

the average american but looking at track record many terms of things that deregulation and he didn't meaux the needle much and moving the regulation picture and didn't change that much. helicopter he ab the largest by cutting taxes during a peacetime effort and in terms of the fact that biden in the last three years taken to a totally different level and magnitude and it's doubled down and a procompression where even the icons of so-called fremantle market capitalism and didn't do

much and here under trump and then now under biden many particular, hey taken this to a level raised. american carnage and how bad americans are and that's the same t h