criticism for much of its behavior. >> it is an amazing thing to observe. israel has been invaded six or seven times over the years from the same. somehow they are to blame for all responding to the sixth terrorist invasion, living arabn the world. there are more than 2 million of them. and they are of.

are 16% of the workers. and israel high tech industries, they're among the most prosperous people in the world. the arabs of israel george gilder is the author of the israel test how israel's genius enriches and challenges the world. and he's spent a few minutes with us here on book tv. thank you he the few minutes with a serum booktv. >> thank you so much peter. carlie rose is a book author and news editor, 20 books, 29. the 29th book is this vietnam, poland and the origins of poverty and why did you choose vietnam and poland to ride about this? >> first of all its economic freedom. it's ranking how our country is.

we compared different countries and compare our times. there is no other country that has increased so much over the last decade. i'll give you an example. united states they have the worst ranking since 1995. we need to find out more about this country and what people don'tkn know. we are the first country in the world of all countries. not only the world. united states with france japan china and what wasn't destroyed by the war was destroyed by the economy so they came out the the world in in

1990 but they are smart people. this is amazing. the number of people living in poverty decreased from 80% and 99 to less thanan 5% today so yu can see what the free market can do. they call themselves socialist today. i lecture at the university and easy to find it at american or european university. >> as you write in your new book today the vietnamese economy is one of the most open and the world at the same time they aren't holding democratic elections. >> you had to distinguish between politics on the one hand

and it's a one-party system and newspapers are owned by the government so you had to distinguish it but not in politics this is true. poland was one of the first countries in europe in the 80s and even 80s people had to stand for hours and hours in long lines to get something to eat or to get products in the 80s, not in the 50s and then free-market resolve. the prime minister was in the economist and now three decades later they have a democracy so

goes hand-in-hand with poland andy. democracy. this is the difference from vietnam. >> and you write it's more economically free that in israel france or italy. is that due to the finance minister and poland or was there a sea change in their approach to economics? >> the started in the 90s with the free market in the last 15 years not much was done. the peace party rules there. what has happened in the last 10 years if they did so much they couldn't do more of it today poland are better compared to my

country. the expectation for germany forf this year is to .1%. poland. is 2.8%. >> why is that? or phase out nuclear power plants to phase out coal power plants for fracking and now even they ban the registration of cars of the combustion engine so all ideology driven in poland is not so they're all pragmatic also in the migration policy. i think they are better in poland. we, we welcome germany from all over the world. millions have millions in the we welcome people from all over the world, millions and millions. lot of them are on welfare and poland also theyey have people

coming from everywhere and people whohe come from other girl -- other countries work in poland. they are such a big welfare state. >> rainer zitelmann if you are going to build a factory would you rather go to poland where the wages would be lower and the restrictions less than in germany? is this part of their appeal? >> absolutely. this is a problem for germany for example companies are leaving germany. i'll give you one example. companies rely heavily on the chemical industry. they arey leaving. the biggest chemical company in the world is fair. there's less brockersth in china and it's cheaper. this is a problem.

>> direct investment is another topic of your book "how nations escape poverty." what the importance of that? >> this is a very good question. iou would compare it with other countries. i went to 30 countries and one of the countries was nepal. nepal is one of the -- in the world and they have a number of restrictions. the seaborne ambassadors as enemies and they have restrictions in the regulations. and how can we attract foreign investors from the united states, from europe? they hope somebody will help them and this is a very big difference because lot of countries they don't understand it. it's good that you have to

embrace them and another thing that is different in vietnam you know we talk about the war and in the 90s they could have blamed the united states for their problems because of the war. in the vietnam war 10 times more explosives than in the second world war so they could blame the united states but they didn't do it. they are like victims of colonialism and sometimes it was 50 or 100 years ago. they blame other countries. they never saw themselves as victims.

and if you want to change your life you will not change anything in your life but to take responsibility for your life then you can change it. >> would you say it's a fair comparison to say vietnam today or in recent history is comparable to germany in the 1950s post-world war ii as an economic miracle? >> some things are different. it was the national socialist time and of course the approach of economic freedom and private property made it a success and another thing maybe they have in common

they inspire rich people and inspire entrepreneurs. i commissioned a panel in vietnam and also other countries about the attitudes towards wealthy people. they are countries like france or germany which people are scapegoats.gs forho them they say how can i become rich? everyone wants to become rich. i was invited to the university which is one of the best universities in hanoi. they read my book and they said how can we improve the image of rich people? can you imagine a university night states, social science? i was invited to germany to a discussion and it was about how

can we explore the topic. by the way in poland they see the wealthy people is very positive and not a scapegoats. both of these countries have allowed a lot of things in common. this is the reason i put that in thed book. lot of people don't know where people were killed and poland than in any other country in terms of the population. they had socialism. it started with economic reform and a lot of other countries left and i hope a lot of young people night states and

universities -- it's not right. >> rainer zitelmann to trade deals make a difference? that the u.s. did not sign a trade deal with vietnam at the eu did. >> no, i think within the united states they are a free trade than any nul country. >> what does it mean to have a free trade agreement? >> if you feel that something is not okay you can go to an international cause and so this is in china you can't do it. they would never accept an

international cause. anotherth thing china has a gret relationship with xinjiang ping. now it's back in the wrong direction. they escape from china and they go there because it's more free. they have freedom of speech. if you gogo to vietnam you can e and in china it's not possible. it's not allowed. >> is it beneficial in your view to for poland to be a member of the eu? >> partly yes, partly no. yes because they have a lot

of -- it costs a lot of money and on the other hand now we have all this -- these decisions from the european commission that house every economy and said the eu. i will give you one example. there's a ban on the registratione. of -- by 2035 in and europe for all european countries. for poland it's notot as dangers as my cup country. but for us have you ever heard of country voluntarily doing that?

everything is electric in china prefer much cheaper cars, electric cars than we do. so i think it's not easy. it has caused a lot of problems. >> rainer zitelmann for the general reader what are they going to learn from your book about vietnam? >> first of all developmental aid does not help. i have a chapter about this because a lot of people left. it's absolutely money and are no countries as far developed his united states and germany. there so much development and i don't speak about it.

if it doesn't help the country that's the first lesson for the next lesson adam smith wrote his book the wealth of nations years ago and his key message was the only way to escape poverty is most importantly for economic growth is economic freedom and it's amazing. he is right. if you read the history and they think of the people don't like it. it's about history. people in vietnam tell their stories and how they live in this time of socialism and its

thinking about economic freedom or socialism. >> generally speaking how can i'll nations create negative or positive conditions for economic growth when you think of central government, what can you do in your view for negative connotations or for positive connotations? >> i look at history and it's like a test tube. there is no peer socialist or capitalist nowhere in the world. northh korea people in europe sy you are a capitalist. you have a lot of socialism. yet in every country of

socialism capitalism and marxism. look what happens if you add its?ol small states. i will give you another example. this venezuela venezuela was not in the seventies, one of the 20 richest countries in the world, one of the 20 richest countries that you started, regulation, regulations, market regulation, more government, less market. and of course, the situation became worse. and then they made a big mistake. they voted for hugo chavez. the end of nineties, and he started with even more government nationalization answer on what happened. you know, they a couple of years ago the inflation of 1,000,000% 1 million and now 8 million people escaped from venezuela million. this is 28% of the population escaped because. so you see what happens. you're you're in this test group

you had small market vietnam poland things become good small government as it did in venezuela it's bad it sounds maybe a little bit simple but it is that that simple sometimes how escape poverty is the name of the book vietnam, poland and the origins of prosperity rayner's. eidelman has been our guest thank you thanks a lot. i apprecia >> "how nations escape poverty" vietnam, poland and the origins of poverty is the name of the book and rainer zitelmann has been our guests. nick thank you. appreciate it. joining us is randy barnett his 12th book entitled "a life for liberty" the making of an americanan originalist. "the new york times" described you as a passionate libertarian. is that they are? >> absolutely. i am a libertarian and i'm i am very passionate. i'm passionate about liberty and i'm passionate about this country. i'm passionate about thete constitution and how it should be construed by its original meaning which is protecting the individual liberties of all of our people.

>> have you always been a libertarian? i was originally a conservative. at the age of 12 as i describe in the book i'd debated him to have a goldwater in frontig of y high school in grade school student body several hundred students at 12 years old. in my 12-year-old heart i knew he was right so i was very passionate conservative and william f. buckley i read the national review. during my junior year i read aboutt the describes it and i told her i did one here by the end i thought the word sounded so that was the da vinci brought a speaker who talked about libertarianism and i thought that seresto conservative i could vote for that and by my last year at northwestern i took a seminar on libertarianism so at that point byni my senior yer

in college i was a libertarian and as the book explains i had written a fan letter and when i went to harvard law school he gave it to a classmate of mine and they met the whole libertarian intellectual circle and eventually joined the board all while i was a law student. i've been a libertarian for a long time. >> what the difference between being ade conservative and beina libertarian? >> it depends on what kind of conservative youou are. it's very amorphous for a lot of different reasons. if you want to oversimplify things there's a liberty-based conservatism that are traditionalist religious-based c conservative. first they are religious and based on tradition and that's where they get their conservatism. other conservators get their conservatism from liberty and the concern for liberty. in that sense there's a libertarian core of a least some

conservatism that's the kind of conservative i was. it's a kind of conservative my dad was and i got my principals from my father as the book says so there's some overlap between some conservatism libertarians but not all conservative's. >> there's a line in your book where is northwestern? were you raised? >> i was raised in illinois in a suburb south of chicago 20 or 25 miles south of chicago. culturally it's part of northwestdi indiana. we are on stateline road. a when i was a boy he used to love to ride my bicycle over the state line in stateline road so we were part of northwest indiana. when i got my s.a.t. scores i'm also jewish and there were hardly any jewish people. in my graduating class there were 400 in their birth for jewish people. i met with my guidance counselor

and he said with your test scores you could get into northwestern and i went really, where is that? as far as i was concerned it was somewhere in seattle or washington. northwestern was illinois on the north side of chicago. my parents had friends there but i do know where it edinson was until my best friend and i drove up in our cars and it had two beaches and it was beautiful. atto that point i plan to go to illinois so i applied to two schools northern illinois which i got into northwestern which i got into. i was glad i went there. >> and law school? >> i went to law school and they had no particular desire to go to harvard or any other, schoo. it turned out i could get into harvard law school but the reason i went to harvard besides the fact that it's harvard as i did plan to spend my entire life

as a criminal lawyer in chicago. i really thought if it didn't go my way would feel like what ifii stayed so going away to the east coast meant if i went back to chicago it was intentional and it was a choice i made. that is what happened. i did go back to chicago to the cook county attorney's office. >> randy barnett you mentioned the saving you mention being jewish and have a chapter in your book about it. >> one of the benefits of there and is opposed to scarsdale or skokie illinois we are not under the misleading impression that we are some kind of a large number of people. if you are a third of the group or a half of the group american jewish people got an unrealistic and i felt this way at the time an unrealistic vision of our place in the country of ours.

growing up in a high school class of 400 is a different level. the lesson started for me in second grade on the playground in my grade school. one of my fellow classmates called me a name. i hauled off and hit him. we got into a fistfight and we were both punished for the fistfight. it wasn't until years later it dawned on me that it's quite possible he didn't know i was jewish. he was just me with something he heard at home but i thought at that time i would fight anybody. i'd physically fight anyone who called me that. as time went by the tough guys got a lot tougher and i wasn't that tough anyway so i revise my policy against anybody. but not stepping down. if anyone sought me out i wouldn't back down. so there was an undercurrent of

anti-semitism there which was normal. it was not an aberration. it wasas a catholic town at of e polls were never historically all that fond of jewish people in the there were many the families that raise the kids that went to school with nevertheless i liked being in the city and i go back to my high school reunion and i spoke at the reunion and i was moved by the response i got. those are my people and iou wouldn't be the man i was if i had grown up with a very special people who were there. >> who is the first case you are in front of the supreme court in how to do due? >> the first case i argued with the only case so i had three cases that i worked on as a litigator since i was a law professor and all three of them went to the supreme court. thefo gonzalez medical marijuana

case which i i did are going to find the one i didn't argue with the obamacare challenge. people think of a person is three cases to go to the supreme court they must be doing a lot of litigation. all three went to this supreme court and i consider myself first and foremost f an academic and a scholar someone who writes matt books in those theories, the fear of libertarianism and originalism. that's what i do. but in the medical marijuana case we lost the case 6-3. wee did get the votes of chief justice rehnquist and justice o'connor and justice thomas and in some sense to beat the spread because most people would have figured i was going to getno no votes so getting three votes we are in vegas now so if there werere betting odds i could gues with the spread would be and i would have beat the spread. an ex-esteemed litigator made

the case. one of the lessons of the book consideringon that was ostensiby allow some paper and the obamacare challenge challenge was a loss on paper one the messages of the book in some respects we won both cases in an important way. we won the medical marijuana case because medical marijuana when i first got involved was a fringe issue. that was the reaction i got from people when they heard i was doing it. the time we were done with their litigation 2005 it was a mainstream issue and we have gone from that point to where most dates have legal medical marijuana and it prevents the doj from enforcing marijuana laws in states that have medical marijuana. that's a pretty big victory in our case platform to issue my client a great deal of her platform advanced public policy.

we also beat back the theory of is way they had the policy to do what they did and if that had been accepted basically the federal government would have no limits. we also want to extend the court did not give them what they asked for. the same thing happened with the obamacare challenge which i talk about near the end of the book and all that went to that challenge. i was grateful in thatue case. the first case was so enormous that i was one of the lawyers for the nfip in that case we won on the law. we have five votes that i'm individual insurance mandate was unconstitutional. if you lost the case they rejected your version of the law but we won on the laundry had 50 -- votes that we lost the fifth vote because chief justice roberts said if there was a perfect mandate it would be unconstitutional but