minimum prevent economic deterrence. europe consists of 27 member states, you have some like the czech republic where the former chinese president is distancing, leading a sort of value battle for democratic taiwan and willing to take economic coercion from china on that. and other countries, germany, the largest economy pivoting on all this. it is a german auto industry which is has a huge overreliance on the chinese market, externally worried what this could mean for their business. .. to sort of subject the german economy to higher levels of make coercion. so it's still a big-moving picture inside europe. you did have president macron of

france as well when he was in china that talked about europe as a kind of when he was in china that talked about europe as a kind of very cold and neutral, modified that but still cannot set it. for me i think another way i try to sort of rows europeans as to the ukraine conflict is also the parallels and the fact with the chinese now and other things basically supplying the russians with the means to continue this war which also means for us we actually see china in our own area which is often been the line, saying they're still far awayay from us but we actually e in our area right now helping an aggressor fuel their war. so that for your paint is coming home that china is a a global threat would also a kind of regional and local threat for us in europe. >> would you add a sentence or two about history here. because in the chinese narrative the europeans are still back in

colonialism. they are going back several hundred years and thinking about a history that is checkered rather than the europe we see now trying to contribute to the growth and freedom and the survival of the planet and international relations. do you want to address that narrative that the chinese love to say, europeans have no place here, you know, you don't belong in asia. >> if youf look at the modern history of the prc engagement with europe, we have taken massive debt on china would become a much nicer country that it is. i think it's been a real awakening for a l lot of europes in general may be how the turned out post 1990s where we expected trade to make us all independent andra happy. in that senses i would say it's europeans that have taken a very long time actually were listening to the signal from beijing that this is a different kind of world that they want.

so i don't see, apart from us, the rhetoric, the sort of -- playing any role in modern relation. >> listen, serious question on the use election, okay? we have a pivotal choice in america, whateverta happens thoh the next president is going to be challenged for the next four years with this taiwan issue and deal with china and fascist. from your use an expert, diplomat come someone who is traveling the world as a european as well, how do you view america's reliability going forward? are you worried about it or are you confident this is something the united states can work through? you know our country so well. >> all, thanks, patrick. as we talked about before it's really hard to sort makes all the predictions on this election but, of course, i've been here as well meeting with people in

the campaigns and trying to gauge primarily on ukraine as well which really forced europeans of course primarily because the war is a hot war going on right now where we're trying to avoid here with taiwan is of course another war erupting. so u.s. reliability, iwa think t is a good question for us on ukraine, first and foremost but overall how much does u.s. want to engage in the world sort of going forward. we have discussionn of so-called forever wars and i was also part of the withdrawal of afghanistan. but i don't see anybody else i mean i would like to be on the world stage and trying to give a helping hand so i really personally of course invested to deceive, i don't have, even though, i don't have a vote in your o relations -- elections. i just hopeot on a personal note that you have good and peaceful

elections. i was an election server back in 2016 myself in virginia, so i've seen it happen and i do hope that would be the case this time around, and new leadership, and will also look to gauge with the world and allies, europe and taiwan as well. >> from your lips to god ears as they say. thank you so much, jonas parello-plesner the battle for taiwan, why taiwan matters and everything about u.s., europe and china in this discussion. congratulations on another great publication. great to see you back here at hudson, and godspeed. thank you. >> thank you, patrick. [applause]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] >> today on c-span2, international , international military officials discussed combining industrial efforts among u.s. allies to keep pace with rising conflicts. that's live from the hudson institute at 9 a.m. eastern. also attending an iernational monetary fund managing director talks about the global economic outlook and the i policy priorities live on c-span, c-span that were free mobile video app, and online at c-span.org. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by these television companies and more including comcast. >> are you thinking this is just the community center? it's way more than that. >> comcast is partnering with

community centers to create wi-fi enabled lift zones so students can get the tools they need to be ready for anythin >> comcast supports c-span as a public service along with these other television providers giving you a front-row seat to democracy. >> former u.s. house lawmakers discuss the state of bipartisanship in the current congress. analyst included martha roby of alabama and ryan costello pennsylvania as well as loretta sanchez of california and joe crowley. the event was hosted by new york university and the association of former members of congress. >> are right. hello, everybody. i'm patrick egan, professor politics and public policy at nyu. i see a couple stints in the audience. nice to see you here. i'm half of the john bradley

center for the study of course i like to welcome you to today's event called congress in conversation, meeting in the middle. heart of the nyu dialogue series. we extend a warm welcome to all joining us here at nyu kimmel center as well as joining us on the c-span which is broadcasting this event life. today, we're joined by four distinguished former members of congress, to make republicans and two democrats. together we will explore questions about partisanship in congress and the recent extreme partisanship estimate the ability of members to serve their constituents. our conversation is very much aligned with the core mission, a core mission of the john bradley center you can what you which was inspired by four congressman and in what you present john bradley. this goes to provideou a forum r informed and civil conversation politics and other court defense internation. identity is and coordination

with, i just learned about this, call the former members of congress association, which is a congressionally chartered ceo of that engages former senators and representatives on a completely bipartisan basis in democracy straight to the programs across the globe. very, very cool. the goal of today's panel is not to debate democratic and republican policy. there's only a vetco gone after an universe. we aim instead to have a friendly discussion without the political landscape has changed since your time in office. of course we will also get your take on issues that driving the upcoming presidential and congressional elections. each of our panelists had a long indistinguishable. and in interest of time i would be very brief and introducing you and i hope you'll forgive me in advance. directly to my left is congresswoman martha roby who served as republican representative in congress representing alabama second congressional district from

2011-2021. we are taking excited to have congress will get today because she received her bachelors degree in music at no other than nyu in 1998. she went on to receive a j. d. from her desperate school of law and stanford university in birmingham. welcome back. to her left is congressman joe crowley who represented new york's 14th congressional district include his hometown in the u.s. congress for nearly 20 years. he served in the house democratic leadership for six years first as vice chair that as chairman of the caucus. he's a a graduate of queens college and serve in the new york state assembly from 1987-1998. welcome. to his left is congresswoman loretta sanchez who represents parts of california central orange county from 1997-9017. a self-described moderate democrat she received her undergraduate degree in

economics from chapman college and mba from american university. she has described herself as going up asas a quote shy, quiet girl, which is a little surprising, even with the visit i had with you but that's okay. you did not speak english and quite sick of it with much of her success in public life. and last but not least with congressman ryan costello who served as republican in congress when representing pennsylvania's sixth congressional district from 2015-2019. prior to his time in congress he served on the chester county board of commissioners from 2011-2015 and graduated from villanova university college of law and represent really a classic pennsylvania swing district we heard a lot about those these days, and gary that is a central background for both the harrison trump campaign to welcome everybody and looking forward to our conversation. what i wanted -- forgive me. a couple questions just about congress generally. have an unul

and valuable perspective. i would say we live in an era of the executive branch is in congress. is this a good or bad thing? >> people you see right here and suffer as members. we spent about? honestly it is house of

representatives and we see our part in the administration state and power for the administration which i saw on both sides when they held everything. >> in the presidency?

>> to make a determination. >> the courts have discovered this. and playing a much bigger role.

going back and forth in the presidency. in this power at this time. >> most of the time you're there about the minority to get mundane things done in los

angeles with this congress, it was also john weiner as speaker and we could probably talk about that more later. >> i think what everyone said adequately represents why we are where we are congress wanted to reduce the presidency and their powers and function better, it would pass legislation and believe congress had so much, even the legislation we passed, you figure this out. for a unique perspective members of congress a just passed a huge big bill, was that leadership figure out. a lot of times ranking member looks to leadership to pass legislation the spending bill

and put it in the biggest they don't want to. it's congress choosing to operate. >> secretary to do this, what color shoelaces will be. we got way down. twenty years i was in congress, the money congress has the ability to move, 53 and 83% for

intelligence and homeland security. it was for all intents purpose, the committee and this is a little unknown fact armed service committee will putting in the authorization act for 60 plus years. >> we only keep one bill a year end pay the bills and therefore we are the committee will replace everything from the military and that, everything. okay medicine and how much we fortify them so we are going to promote.

everything you can imagine would have everything in it is passed in that one bill and for 65 years, is the only belt every year has been passed. >> little different the bills from passing and they are probably lastly as you probably heard of the we know the republican leadership wealth present time is dealing with that, they will figure that out. they are going to say there are the ones and cable-television like that but it is terribly

challenging. >> that is a bill passed annually to scientists measures defense activities in the bill that this year has close to the middle and the extremes of both parties. what is going on there? i think of allport being more or less in a little. what you have that dynamical the you have a three republicans as distinct democrats. agreed to physically. >> it is the idea that you know

you will hit everything you want but you will be on behalf of these people. and represent them. and people who have never put their name on the ballot and probably never step foot in your district and don't know where you're coming from.

the voting records the in my experience i remember watching everyday primarily given obamacare and negotiations, both for incredibly angry. in that development, eventually

people got elected to congress and then it turned into freedom caucus as much as there is a reaction on the democrat side, the state that trump was elected, i knew it would be reaction to that. the only change made primary. it is the response to the freedom caucus it was a response to trump. in the house the freedom caucus has credible power.

they have undermined speakers and there now in a very powerful position, let us not the case from the democratic side. he was saying about and therefore people in the extremes they were legislating. and that's how you legislate.

>> to your initial question, whether it is the freedom caucus usually in the majority in the freedom caucus is strategically effective. she held out and i don't believe speaker pelosi was quite some time. you can be really effective if you can present yourself as ideologically pure. for the present what i'm not pleased with forward.

>> i came in earlier than they did so the house of representatives more than they did. i came in after newt gingrich was already for two years. democrats have been in control for three years. and they went over the top and they have a revolution on. and a personal destruction that's when you don't go back to your district, that's when a lot of us so started to happen. then when i came in in the

middle. in the house to have humanity will. 50% plus one and if you have ever seen the house of representatives in the state of the union they were like this link. his only other side of the aisle. the north liberal you are quick like you all college. everybody has there's dave chosen but in the middle more conservative on the democratic side and liberal publicans

facetious i'll. we would generally start a bill this way and then pick up the votes needed to get to 218 and that is usually the way we pass the bill. now on the extreme here for the on their own. and the real. >> that's where i hung out.

turn to elections and we are obviously in the middle of a presidential election. i wanted to ask you all, what is it like to run for election and you get attention, how do you get the fuses will candidates? >> i think similarly to you, they were always determined, it doesn't exist anymore but like an 18th district. so can't really say during the midterms so exactly democrat to

get to congress but it wasn't here. most of that will i was a surrogate for the mitt romney campaign and getting away from congress is romney ryan campaign. that was in my district. >> i come from orange county, california, for the great republicans lived so it is a very republican area. members of the house of representatives and the population and for me it was

republican white males. and the list goes on. when i one, i one by 984 votes. i was a latina, i was young, one of the youngest woman to ever go to congress. there is a democrat and a woman, all the things you wouldn't imagine so when i got to the house, they refused to accept my election and they investigated me for 15 months in congress. many said of my election, it is the worst in the house of representatives.

>> so you all think you win -- it's a club. he come over, knock on the door, they opened the and you show your paperwork. on the day -- okay. >> if you win, you get is. >> january 3 was the day i remember, it's my birthday. he will stand up. 435 of us stand up and we are all sorting together except the last day, republican close to the microphone the second boat was whether i get to stay in

congress are not so you ask, how does of presidential election affect you? and that way it affected me well because i was able to convince hillary's brother, i wasn't on the radar screen and i told you the reasons why already, a typical month before as i can when and he promised to fight this and the campaign for me. in the can make a big difference somebody like me but can also be the kiss of death. in the president's doing things felt like especially on and off your election.

for a person in a competitive district, it's a big deal for the money is going and how things are going. >> on you brand yourself? the talk was gubernatorial race democrat and they want by a lot so how getting a voter posing for democratic government whether independent, republican, how i get them to vote for me? , different brand they are not associating with? fast-forward to 2025 running for reelection win but republicans and some in the art getting any democrats in getting a personal relationship with them. what do i do to differentiate myself with you differentiate

yourself from the democratic voter to vote for you based on where you are on these environmental issues or some local issues, i voted for that whatever the case may be, a democrat members of congress, the guy. she doesn't always focus on politics, the last category in these swings distant the question is very good, it is way different framing in a presidential cycle is a swing district, for markedly different especially with the polarized environment.

>> they had a more competitive race november. the last time a publican want was ronald reagan so it's been since 84, a longtime. we kind of worry about that when i was getting was the freedom to go out and help fellow democrats. he gave me the opportunity to help raising money for them and get elected and as much as they have all been called they wanted

to be on our radar. the real problem is fewer and fewer like them. there are not many competitive races. there are a handful here or there in the house if you ask the functionality, they are rewarded in primaries. >> so much so they donald trump

was unfit to be president in the primary and the billboard and obama election it's mostly my old districts and we headed of electric. >> you are joe crowley and you are in one of the 20 districts. it is a bipartisan infrastructure bill, a democrat bill comes up in 15 republicans, and going to vote for that and going home and telling everybody

to. you go back to district, i voted for the biden bill and you will have a primary problem so the challenge in a heavily partisan district, it's difficult if you're in a heavily partisan district for leadership to vote against your part you for leadership down in the more highly partisan exit. >> when he gets worn into the house, you get two tickets.

i need to support my family. i have to pick them off of the people. it really turned out and you may have my ticket. he said as long as it is going, we are going to work together.

i will use a letter. >> thank you all for coming raising money in the election and the chairman or chairwoman, you have to raise a lot of money. >> i spoke a lot about this. you prices to have that status

to be able to raise the money. most of us starting out and it was raising money. since the television and the primaries. i was not used to that so it is on the bill.

there is the sense of robbery that you have to do your part to help with the majority. what you have is taken for loss very quickly. sounds majority for four years. when i helped get into the promised land with the 18, i did my part and contributed $6,150,000. there's no question money is this issue not only for myself but they will rewarded and in

california for the early evening. it's like i had to do it. my neighbor gave me 150 bucks. i knew that person. it's like you got to get as much as you can from.

the first person when they go to leadership saying i want to be any appropriations producing whatever the allocation is for the congressional committee and the amount required is by seniority and it went through the roof. >> i'm one of the members of a soundtrack. money, money, money playing in the background. i knew everybody, the name of their kids, i knew everybody.

i was at one time the number two razor of the democrat party. the reason was, when republicans 2011 in the house. i became a big money raiser. you are an appropriate are and money for candidates. will it was just like whoever came will. you for -- >> loretta. yes, ma'am. i need $100,000 today. let's nancy, i'm not good.

because you haven't and you and raise it. still nancy w but still make you would call and say loretta, i would go yes, nancy. i need to wonder $50,000 thousand dollars by tonight. you've got to run some cable and so-and-so against right and we need it now. and you know when your leader calls you and you got it, she knows you got it, you got to give it. so that's just the name of the game. by the wayoo i was very good committee assignment, armed services it was like gold. >> i think there's probably come would probably do for book two, on the different types of donors out there. there's the pac dollars if there's the internet donation dollars.

i go on hannity and i say some crazy stuff, i raise five dollars from 5000 people and then five minutes that i see something as basic and they get the same five dollars from the same 5000 people. this is the big one, there's like probably ten to 20 people on each side of the aisle, the hedge fund guys and gals that are worth billions that will write you, not me, but right you have to billion, when moving, ,o mentor checks into super pac funds and you spread it out. they are the most lucrative donors. very difficult to get hold of. you have to do something in order to get their attention or be in leadership. there's an entire ecosystem of donors to get to them requires different strategies come what motivates them are oftentimes different what use the money for, your own we elect leadership. that's different, too, but that's -- that book is yet to be written because the entire book

of fundraising has been rewritten over the last three or four years. interesting question, what you use your dollars for come some people raise money to get reelected. some people raise money to get otherge people reelected. you have to raise money to get on the committee of choice so there's a lot, a lot more to it than meets the initial i. >> some people raise money for other people instead of themselves. >> yes, i have. >> the emphasis in terms of individuals and what we had to do really changed. the campaign in our country is broken. the campaign finance system is broken, especially the 501(c)(4)s and that's what right is talking to them elon musk is spending hundreds of millions of dollars right now i would don't even know where he can get. >> and citizens united citizens united, too. of giving corporations

more rights than individuals. if i give one dollar to martha roby and her campaign, that's public. 501(c)(4)s are not. millions and millions, corporate arms going to and no one knows where is pink spin. that's really broken with our system. it just didn't happen back in the day. >> do we have another question from the audience? >> first of all thank you so much for joining us y here at nu campus. there is certainly a lot of polarization currently in our political environment, and i wanted to ask our two republicans on the stage. so we see in this very polarized era certain courageous republicans like adam kissinger and liz cheney define and even

condemning the mag extremist like leaving the january 6th investigations. we saw liz cheney at a rally for kamala harris two days ago. i wanted to ask you two, like what you make of this, a certain republican, trying to alleviate the polarization and going so far as to like risk their own seat and leaving their seats in congress? and would you, did you see yourselves rallying for kamala harris, for example? what to make of liz cheney and adam kissinger and saw? >> as an original nevero trumpe, i have a unique view of this. i told you i was in my district, when i came out against trump in 2016, my primary opponent got actually i think about 33,000

riding votes which caused me to dip below 50%. and in 18 i had the most difficult race that i've had over the course of ten years because of my position on trump because i double down on it being 18. if you google me you will see he endorsed me. i wasn't because i ask him okay? somebody else did that. anyway, so it comes at great, can, great personal cost both for the career path you are on. i can't speak for adam and liz. they are two of my friends. add up and i both got elected at the same time and we keep in touch regularly. it takes a lot of courage to stand up to your own party.

again, people, awful things, name-calling and things like that. i have mad respect for anybody from either party who is willing to stand up against their party because it's about our country before it's about our party. >> so i would just say this. no matter what your personal opinion is of trump, half of this country is going to vote for him. and i think, whether it's 49% or, it's very close, it probably does mean the popular vote. i think there are a lot of republicans who separate things he has said and done from either things he stands for or the fact that he is not kamala harris.

because there are a lot of republicans who may say i don't like this, i don't like that, but it really don't subscribe to her brand of progressive politics. and you o cannot support kamala harris without looking at donald trump as theoo world savior. in terms of adam and liz, i know them both, i like them both. the main thing to be quite perfectly blunt with you is, is there safety. because there are political violence is not just if you speak out against trump. it could be whenn you speak out in favor of trumpet trump almost got assassinated. that's the real problem with our country i think, with our politics, that country, is the translation from opposing the candidate, or supporting a candidate, to being an enemy of the state or worthy of someone's

private acts against you. that's a discussion for another date day but i've got to be honest with you. there are members of congress who worry day in and day out about their safety and whether they will be illegal if either kids if they vote a certain way. that does not put his republic was founded upon. in fact, this republic wasay founded upon goingnd to washington, voting on behalf of the interest of your citizens and then one day returning back home and living your life free of harassment. that's the real challenge of our time. >> i would like to think if i was in those positions i would do the same thing. i would like to think that. i don't know. i wasn't in deposition or i would have to say i think they both have been incredible in terms of, have been focused. although different. adam did not run for reelection. he saw the writing on the wall.

ms. did and she lost. maybe give her more up on that because she pushed the envelope. acus back to what i said before, it's the pulse of our system. an republican party, not every district, depends on the individuals of their, if you go against the president tond choi, if you go against trump you're going to have a primary and you'll probably going to lose. someone is going to take the seat. it's just not going to be you. you may think you are the better person -- >> i made it. i made. >> you've made it, so they decided you had enough. >> until i didn't. >> that's true. i don't know if i ever actually met in. ino know him for like 50 years r i never liked him. we were making, dialing for dollars and i was on one phone and my guy was come donald trump, please. hold on a second.

pick up the phone. pick up the phone. he does and why? i don't know, i just never liked that guy. i don't want anything to do with him. so i was right by him. if there was donald trump-esque type person i don't see it ever happening. what if there was a tiger, so would i do respect for the constitution, no respect for the laws, what i stand up against him? i think given my background, character i think i would. but i do get a lot of respect to people that are doing that now. it's not easy. as ryan said, people under threat, physically. i never had, you probably have this. i only had one threat against the in my 20 years in congress. mueller called become the director, around christmas time, a nice time. my thumb is all of my house. that was the only time. today, i think it's hard.

>> maybe one more question from the audience. let's see, here, please.e. >> thank you for coming today. it's the opinion of many of progressive their issues generally popular among the american people whether they are democratic or republican. one of the species the comes to mind its expansive public health care. but the progressives say that well, the reason why these issues are not being engaged with, even though their general popular because money politics, what would you all say to that? >> i'm not sure i would agree, i would have to look at the polling but expanding public healthcare, expanding public health care. i mean there so many people who do not d like the aca. we had such a hard time passing that.. i mean, there's a lot of people who want universal health care. there's a lot of people who have

universal healthcare. it'se. called medicare and he would always be in receipt of the trinity people and they would say don't forfeit aca, alreadyeo come don't vote for te to keepe because i want my medicare. i look at them and say medicare is like obamacare, right? it's done by there government. i don't think that there s big appetite, i think that's a very divisive issue. i think people want healthcare, but i think there's a group,, there's a good group of people, a good group of people meeting amounts of people, who don't want the government involved in healthcare. then there's a group of peopled who think government probably is the only way we're going to get the healthcare that all americans want. >> i would say okay, you've got medicaid or jump the exchanges if you don't have employer-sponsored healthcare. .. healthcare and more about the benefits that you would be

entitled to under healthcare. i think the more emerging issue and the democrats kind of illness, republicans have rejected it, should they negotiate with pharmaceutical companies on drug pricing. that, to me, is a >> you said i think what you said framed differently as what types of health care and what services provided within the health care system should be guaranteed. >> and also, ask that they be right on top of that, should the government be an agent of change within insurance itself. should it be an option that the government that is there. that's maybe-- in terms of that versus a single payer health care system, which i think for a lot of reasons, not just because of the republican opposition to it, some democratic opposition to it, i think really in terms of moving this incrementally further forward, those are the issues. where i think you'll see some of that balance. >> it's interesting, too, i would say,