it doesn't help me. so it doesn't matter. i wouldn't be there. it did help me, but i liked. blue sky, my wife loves blue sky. she went to brown university, so she would. but one of the things that she said, i like threads. i think it's a good product. i actually do think it's a good but i know all these fancy people so wife's like threads is like the cheesecake factory and blue sky is like the cool bar, right? and i'm like, i like the cheesecake factory. it's really good cheesecake. it's delicious. and they have chicken poppers. yeah. you know, so it's whatever you want. i think you should try it. like linkedin can be very good for a lot of people. i think you should try all. i love blue sky. i love the the and the ceo blue sky. they're fantastic people. i think there's i think there has to be a fractionalization of all these social networks. so go where you like make the social network you like if you like white supremacy i've i got a social network for you right

so go there if you like that if you want to be lgbt can i do use it all the time. i like it. i think it's interesting. the last thing i'd say is, you know, one of the things they talk about is these echo chambers, right? and we are an echo chambers. we are. what's interesting is they love to talk about the left being in an echo chamber. what do you think? right. is in their in their own chamber? and then they complain about our give me a friggin break. i think what would be interesting is to probably get off of social media because it isn't life and get out and get and have more community things like this. let me tell you, this is. this is astonishing to me to see all these young people, you know, listen to podcasts, listen to all of podcasts, different thing, start to participate in community and events and things like and have a mixed hybrid thing and that's where i think and i think the real problem is, the problem with all these devices, they're addictive. you cannot live without them from a work point of view and a

social point of view and, and, and and they're necessary. they're necessary to to, to working through the world and so the addictive part makes it a real problem and i often think that people 30 to 55 are really the actual not kids right my kids aren't on social media they use they reddit to discover and find things my older kids. but it's you have to, like i always say, at the end of this burn book, i say, you know, you kind of use that line from that good that great movie. i go, you know, look up, look the -- up and use it for what is which is a tool versus what it's become, which is a weapon. every technology ever from the beginning of time. and i would tell one more quick story. i advise you to read yuval harare's book. i did a great interview with him it's called nexus and i yuval like all the tech people love that book remember they were carrot. did you know all this about sapiens? i'm like, i did because i went college like, but i'm glad

you're now learning it, boys. but but one of the this book is really enticing because it's kind it's an indictment of tech really in many ways. but one of the things he says and you should and read it because many every technology has its deleterious and positive effects. when the gutenberg press was invented, the best selling. this is the first time books were widely distributed. it was not the bible. it not copernicus that came 200 some years later. you know what it was a book by a crazy bipolar or misogynist name. heinrich cramer. it was called the hammer of witches and it was a manual of how to find and kill witches and guess they were women, right? hundreds of thousands of women died in the ensuing 200 years. the deleterious effects of this today, if read the hammer which is which i did, it's all through. q and on same stuff, same ideas

around women. and some of it's funny like that there is a women men's --, which seems to be a theme throughout time. and let me tell you boys, mostly men, are interested in --. not women, not me in particular, but in general. why? why would we collect? so this idea was witches collect men's -- and put them in a -- tree in a nest and keep them like it's in book. and it's like. and i was kind of like, oh, that's interesting. like, but why? and then this one man comes and gets his and he wants to take another person's -- because bigger this is all in this book is fantastic and. then he's like, no, that's the vicar's --. you can't take that -- anyway, read this book. so good selling this book now. so good. but we don't read henrik. but here's the thing. it's the thing. it's the same. and eventually the for copernicus and the renaissance, and eventually we use for great things. but right now are in the friggin

hammer of witches right now. and we need to emerge that period. but it's constant with every technology comes, with every ship, there's a shipwreck, which is what i use in the book. so fantastic. what are we oh, i think we still have time, do we as someone that's speaks against powerful people. yeah i work for for nonprofits and right now which comes up ministration there are at risk i'm talking to the microsoft that someone that speaks to powerful people i work for for non and right now trump is saying that he might take some nonprofits which are terrorists it's arts and poetry. what up for what what is do you follow gut again speaking powerful people do you analyze how would process and are you

ever like i am you know i'm scared of scary things that's it. powerful people are just mostly flawed people, many of whom hadn't been hugged enough as a child. and one of the things i think about is everyone's the same so i treat them exactly the same and. if they find to be good people focus in on that. and i'll say it if, they're not well, what are they going to do? like, i'm like, bring it on. like, what are you going to do? i mean, they could sue me into oblivion, but okay, the seventies already cut 32 million. what doesn't is already cut 32. who does? the seventies. 32 million in grants for the arts. so i feel i agree it's a huge we have to do organize don't fall prey this idea that you cannot win back in 2004, the democratic party was guess what happened the many years bill clinton that to 2004. what year was it? bill clinton came in anyway. this is an up and down thing. and i think these people are

terrifying in many. they're also incompetent in many ways. right. and so and that's not to say that that's still not scary because there's some competence among some of these people already, they -- it up. it seems like. i'm like, what are you doing, you idiots? you the other thing i focus in on is, literally look at the numbers is half and half, almost we that the i'm a democrat lost lost in the wrong places but they didn't lose by that much and so what do you do with those numbers is it's like if you i what i did because scott was going on about landslide trump's landslide is number 46 or 45 in presidential landslides. biden won by 4.3%, trump up by 1.2. that's not a landslide. just won in the right places. that said, we should pay attention to what the people over on the other side are saying and what bothered and what got wrong and figure out how to serve people. and i think any politician that

serves people and figures what their problems are listening to all sides, not just not just like the maga people. we can listen to some of them. not really, but they should be listening to us like that's the thing. i went to kentucky to they always do silicon holler. silicon. they did it here. silicon sand, whatever. it's ridiculous. i went there and i said, listen, nobody from silicon valley is coming here to open up a company. i'm sorry, they're not you're not trained enough. it's easier to do it offshore, blah, blah, blah. they appreciate it that i came there to talk to them and they were some people were like, i'm so glad someone came here to. talk to us and listen to our our issues. and i did. i was like what's your issues about? and they were like, well, is coal mining coming back? i'm like, no, they're going to have robotics do it. you're that owner over the minute he can replace you with a robot he's going to do it. he's going to lie to you about but he's going to do it because he wants to make money and you better pay attention to that. and so had this great dialog and they're like thank you for coming to talk to us.

i said you've never been to san francisco to talk to me come to san francisco and hear my life like it was a really interesting. and then we found a lot of commonality. like they had all these issues around gay. and i started talking about my kids and my family. it goes long way once you start to realize the common america has divisiveness, works on the internet so does hope. it really does and that's where we you know let's get back to cat videos spicy thing i love that that's i think have some time by the way everybody go see everybody goes is so good i did a great interview with jon chu who's such a great director so it's great it's really good even the men, it's really good. sure, go ahead. it's not barbie, calm down. all right on the theme of leaders ai. so there's a couple of new players in the in the space, right? you have them is at deepmind and zero i'm having hard time

hearing you solve the problem. so there are some some new leaders in the space of ai are there? what you have them is that deepmind at anthropic it's been around a while but yeah but but they are you know are at the forefront of leading of the biggest changes in technology right and not many people knew about them you know five or ten years ago. so what's of them? are we in good hands. would one of the biggest changes that we're facing in the future? you know, my worry right now, i i broke that story of deep google buying deepmind. i was super interested in that company because i really was focused on about ten years ago. i was sort of interested in because my idea was i kept google was so neanderthal that we things in and then it came back us, right? like, why doesn't it come? why doesn't the information come at us? right? why do we have to compile it ourselves? it's artisanal like, i'll go get this go good here. it's sort of like shopping used to be, right? and so i was very interested. the idea that information reveals itself to you, all of it together, that there was going to be that. and a.i. has been around forever. why? i mean, just have called it different things.

but but what's happened is there's been a mix of computing, of computing power data is critical all and and energy use like the ability to really step it up now is where we. are so we've gone from sort of you know not so smart to dolphins to where it's going right so i think some of them are interesting. many of them are flawed think i like them a little better than the group. but my issue is every one of these companies like openai is $157 billion value asian and it's a star up stop me like that is like that is not small so and by the way it has a microsoft anthropic has an amazon. matt is spending billions of dollars nobody can keep up without spending billions of dollars and therefore the four major players are the same players who brought us partially the insurrection right like who brought us part polarization and everything else and no responsibility and stealing of

privacy and no antitrust. so this is the this is my worry is it's controlled by very big companies because. it's so costly at this point. it's not like early internet was not costly. it wasn't cheap. and so my worries that it'll it'll be dominated by the same giant without any government involvement to worry about safety and things we can agree on like killer drones maybe not like you know what i mean, like we do with nuclear energy. and so as much as i like them individually, think big corporations are really leading this and i worry about the of innovation for the google was it was really in a garage amazon was a tiny company can they ever compete this environment you know microsoft is reviving three mile island yeah it's a they are not nuclear energy is is a much more right do research anyway it's it's fossil fuels are bad

that's that's just let's be clear that's what the really is right now for us but we have to find innovative energy the big companies control this. that worries the internet was not controlled by big companies fact it upended them. i'm i, i prefer. the young eating it's old i do i think that's better for this country. it's the reason we've been ahead on it's the reason democracies are better than any other system and it's you know china's top down and it's surveillance economy where we should be bought bottom up and that's my worry in that. so anyway just i would the only thing i would say is all of you use it start using it. you cannot do anything unless understand and use it and it's it'll you'll figure out what's good for you and what's not good for you. but it will replace certain jobs. it will create new ones, but it will most i was talking to a pretty big mogul the other day

and he said he had 6000 coders. he goes by next year i'll have 2000. hey, i will. all of that. yeah. that's the future. the future. this i think we have. well, i want to thank everyone. thank you. that was. that was excellent. that was great. thank you all so much. you guys. i know.

we'll be back at the miami book fair, too. you're an author roundtable featuring. dave barry, mitch albom, stephen king and other author, members of the band the rock bottom remainders. while we wait, here are some recent events. the libertarian freedom fest. helen raleigh discusses immigration in america. and on your screen now is helen. she is the author of this book the broken welcome mat america's un-american immigration policy. helen raleigh, you have a chapter at the beginning of the book called foundation of our national identity. why do you go back to? martin luther and the founding of the country when you talk about immigration? well, i think it's very important because we always talk about country as a country where you marry. and i think many people misunderstand that as. what does that mean? and some people argue, oh we're not. so i think it's very important to talk about some things

because america, to a immigrant like me, means so much more. it's not a just a country, become make a living, raise our family it's a country we represent the ideal i know that's kind of politics now. we're popular nowadays, but it's actually it means something to especially who like me, live in a solitary. i grew up in the tourism, so that's the regime. that's why i think it's important to go back to see america's founding is not just a group of people, right, that ruled on a mayflower here. they brought the west. and so some of the best of western civilization, you know the religious freedom. you know, the liberty, property rights, the brother, all these ideas to lands and establish with giving us hope. and then generations of people came to, pursue that same dream and with our collective effort as true, and also a combination of collective effort as well as individual, you know, rugged

individualism that we make. this is one of the great the greatest i should say, the greatest country in the world. so that's why i think it's important that we go to very early on to set record straight why america. you know it's an ideal such a beacon of hope for people with so many different skin colors beautiful language you know peace, very different food. but we all identify as america's long before even kids. you know, you mentioned that you're an immigrant. what's your story? i'm an immigrant from a communist china. i was born and raised in china. i came to this country in 1996 as a student, and i became a u.s. citizen in 2013. so between 1996 to 2013, this is 70 year period. i went through almost all the major legal jungles, our legal immigration system. i was so fed up with, i almost gave it up. but again, i started, you know,

the american way is not just to sit back, complain about the houses, do not go right. the american way is is something is not right. i should it you know, i'm a citizen not i shouldn't fix it. so that's a problem for me to write this book too to talk about not only history of immigrate should but also how can we make this system that benefited our country as well as creating one way for immigrants now after 1996 did you return to china? i returned to visit, but never returned to live. now that you're a citizen. can you go back? oh, yes. but are they probably not going to like me much? let's go back to the beginning of your book, the broken welcome. what do you think the role of religion in america's immigration system has been or the importance? very much so. i think the role of religion, because the the in my book, i spent a lot of time to describe this early. they were really driven by because they were persecuted for what they believed in back in

europe. so they really tried to seek this diplomacy, a new age of promise that they can practice what they believe freely without suffering persecution. and they want to do that for other people as well. and so religion has a fundamental importance in our of our countries. first, i would see that's almost like a first mark was our country is it has this religious religion especially christian attitude flavor but at the same because our founding father had a good had a you know insight that the question as it is not a they never said is the christian ideas of national religion but as you all were they were all believers or at least they believe there's higher being that overseas people. and i think that's important. that's that's what's the moral gives them the moral clarity. oh, so, you know we see how they designed to the declaration there how the declaration of

independence was written, how the constitution was written. there's such a personal the moral clarity in it. and every time when they make those major decisions, they, you know, they're driven by that moral clarity that's came from the influence of the providence. i do believe that. well, obviously, immigration is a contemporary issue, but in your book, you talk about some immigration legislation from 1790, 1795, 1798. what kind of immigration legislation are we talking about? that's a historic calling. so historically, we our country's immigration had. so there are two aspects of it, because i think the people who do not like to study history tend to misrepresent it. there's there's definitely one aspect that is very libertarian on our country's very first immigration law was very simple. people wrote back that they not write as thousands of pages of legislations. it was a very simple the

basically our founding father just want a any immigrants is welcome as long as they demonstrate good moral and also white person that unfortunately part that was in there but also really emphasize good moral character and just from time to time there was a residency requirements sometimes so two years, sometimes five years or five years. the reason they have this residency requirement. our founding fathers will be expelled. although roman history it would be kind of roman history and they learned this on the roman history that. you want the citizens who have a stake in the state. so that's why they want to give new immigrants time to build up familiarity with our country's philosophy laws. and before can swear in to become naturalized citizens. that's what that residency is for. so other than that, the immigration law has been very simple for decades 100 years.

then gradually it became more and more complicated. and that's the one that's that's this byzantine system we're living today was the legacy of every successive succession of a government type of building. are more and more bureaucracy around immigration. so the more and this is the funny part. it's not sunny for immigrants, but the funny part is every time add another layer to the bureaucracy, they always is doing it for the benefit of the immigrants. they want to take care. this is special. who this needs? that special group, that special needs. but what they end up doing is making it so complex. it was such a bureaucracy. it's actually hurt immigrants just. let me just give you a quick example. two years ago, there were a group of indian american software engineers protesting in silicon valley. what's their reason for protest? because of some of them, based on the estimate from the uscis, the government agency in charge

of citizenship, a green card based on the uscis estimate some was a will never see a green card until they had to wait for like over 100 years to see a green. these are people who are very educated, have good work experience. they're working for like microsoft, google, amazon, and they have their families very well educated. their law abiding citizens. they love america. but we're making them to wait for over a hundred years to give them a green. that's just incredible. aung slight unfair. and it is the years bureaucracy supposedly helping immigrants supposed to help america and end up helping neither hell in raleigh the next big change in immigration law came in the 1880s. why was it? well, it was because it has lot to do with with me. so this book that they've

special that chapter does subchapter about that it's to give you a very emotional about chinese immigrants history in this country. it means a lot to me as a chinese immigrant because because of today we're facing a different kind of discrimination that often said oh, not part of america. we're all you know, we didn't give much to this country. we're just come here to take advantage of things. that's why i think it's very important to set the record straight that the early chinese immigrants helped build america. you know, we'd be the real world, you know, just real growth in the agriculture kind of food. yes, agriculture industry. it will not cut california. it would never become the become the breadbasket of united states. even now, the for chinese immigrants, japanese immigrants, korean immigrants who will build the levees. you know standing water.

deep waters. you know, climbing dirt with barrels hints so so i think it's it's very important unfortunately what do we see happen in 1888 1880 was the discrimination against the chinese because they were blamed by labor unions blaming chinese immigrants for stealing jobs, for. so they're waiting this to do at any wage order to survive. and then so they persuaded a democrat party representatives in 1882. they passed the chinese exclusion act. it's the only immigration laws specifically targeted one ethnic group, especially after that group. how instrumental, they helped build the cross, you know, transcontinental that was basically like a house. the united states, you know, into the modern era connect the

east to west coast of their thousands of chinese immigrants died for doing that. and the meat, the meat of those finish that work. they were pushed out. they were told you can never become of this country. you give your sweat a life to how was that exclu? was an act in place. the exclusion act lasted until or second world war a towards the end of the second world war, when united became ally with china and united went to against the japan, that's when the united states decided to move the, you know, basically cancel the exclusion act. now, you report that from. 90 to 1870, about 9 million immigrants came into the country after that. did it slow down or speed up? it's definitely slowed down again, zero. you and this is a wave this this

is this is why i think it's important to look at the wave so immigrant immigration because there's always this push and pull factor the push of all the factors some immigrants home country because it was economic you know devastation you know or persecution for various reasons like religious persecution. they'll push people want you to leave their country and believe me, it takes a special kind of person with with a lot of courage to want to leave every single single family the language, the culture of the middle to go somewhere so. so it has to be devastation to push people out who want to make that journey. and then there was poll that just poll and push out factor. and then there's a present every generation after they came here, they became established. then they consider themselves as native in the sense that you know they have this is captured

here. then they joined the natives. the fear is, oh, this new nuclear commerce, you know, they are willing to work for anything for dirt, cheap wage. they consider them as economic a threat, they think and they seem to oh, there's a very limited economic pie. so they're willing to do anything that we have a smaller slice, even though that's not all america is about. so. so see this every time we you see big right after a big immigration wave, then you see this very natives approach to try to push people out, to say we need a set of various we can't just admit any but you know, too many people, you know, we need to keep jobs in america. we see this argument again and again the history helen in your book the broken welcome you spend a bit of time about the 1924 immigration act signed by calvin. what did that do? well, it's basically a drastically lower the quota for

immigrants from a united states. and basically, this is right after the big wave. so it's basically, you can see from the statistics that the immigrant endured, the number of immigrant the united states does is greatly reduced, you know, basically plunging to a deep, deep poverty. and that also, as a society, show of that of that act, there's also very strong. so the chinese exclusion act that we talk about earlier, it was initially targeted only to chinese immigrants and it only targeted to chinese immigrant to prevent chinese immigrants to become a u.s. citizen. but in the 1920s, during this wave of really isolationist, not only three, the numbers, european immigrants dropped. they also expanded the exclusion. two to this they became the asian exclusion act. like any engagement with some any asian countries are not allowed to become u.s. citizens.

so it's this whole isolationist and southern europeans were restricted to. they did, yes. period. yes. yes. what did the great depression do to immigration? to the united states? i think in the great depression. so every time when you come disasters such as the great depression happened because before there were other economic crises, too, every when something like that happened, people became very fearful, which is understandable. you see massive layoffs. you know people here, you were citizens. this struggle to support their families, struggle to find a jobs. so whenever we experience crises, cycles like that, the isolationist will win the day year. you will see more isolationist talk, more populism talk about we don't need the immigrants because. we have enough jobs for america. like i said it's understandable, but it's not.

as we can see the dynamism of america's economic system is about. we have the ability as a free people. we the ability to grow the pie is limited to the size of pie. so you think it's a limit, the size of pie you? think human capital is a barrier that you never going to grow the pie you're. still going to shrink the pie. everybody going to have small earth and less so. so i think again, again, immigrants have proven to rest of america that we are here to help grow the pie. 1940 was the alien registry act, and in 1952, the word white was removed from immigration law. yes, that was a tremendous accomplishment. even though i do not particularly like the law, it still has a very limited quota for asian immigrants. but i think a giant step in the right direction that asian sort

of first time for over a long period of time. other asian immigrants like who were not born here can finally apply and have opportunity to become a naturalized citizen. so it means a lot. and you can see you read your chart because that you move immigration especially to asian and south asia area. you can see number just gradually going up from that period in 1965. now we're getting into more contemporary times. there was a major overhaul or add on to the immigration law. how would you describe that? well, a profoundly impact for law. again, i still do not like it, but it's profoundly impactful because we haven't changed much since then. so is it basically laid out to us framework and we are working right now. so you did a couple of one is it's really family reunification as the primary goal of us immigration system. this is very important because

before that that was not in the main goal but after that it has become a major goal and it has a major ramification of a lot of problems we're facing today. so that's the one. number two is it's also have this given this a priorities, it basically divided the people based on different priorities within family category and like, you know, if you a parents, your spouse or children or are you're older, younger than 21, then you wait time is different. you know, this is what decided this system this. this is the one i like of this act is for the first time. they also allow for employment, immigration. but i like to see more of it. but this one because it's so emphasized family reunification, it's limited this to about a 20 to 25%. so it's a small it's a small portion of bigger pie and. the third part is this is the first time well, it's not a first time introduce a quota, but this the first time

introduce a bigger quota. so nowadays automate about a 1 million legal immigrants each year and now quota has barely changed since 1965. so really we're now living entered umbrella of 1965 law which also told you it's really about time we update it because it's a long time and that was signed by lyndon johnson, 1986, ronald reagan signed immigration legislation which did what? and he basically gave what's so called amnesty. he basically to either trade off, he was working with the democrats majority congress. so basically the trade off was the democrat was supported the border security act, you know, measures that he had that the republicans advocate an exchange that he gave amnesties to, illegal immigrants at time was at a country i think he and his party underestimated because he was a key and the republicans

were confident that, you know, you wait, just give amnesty to everybody inside border then will will not have much illegal immigration problem i think he made them mistake that he didn't understand immigration law is also about incentives right giving incentives good behaviors people will follow the law if you incentive bad behaviors, you will see more of it and. that's it. unfortunately that's exactly what it did. and so since then the illegal immigrants number of illegal in most united states keep going up. helen rally given the short history that we've gone through here, where does that leave us today with regard to immigration? we're in the mess and i think there is there needs to be a national of urgency to solve it. and especially the last a couple of years, we have witnessed that

the open border policies obviously are a total failure, not only is a total failure, but it has also poisoned the political to reach a you immigration reform compromise from both side, especially from the right. because as illegal immigrant immigrants, it's very frustrating to me that we don't have a voice in this debate that we don't have a voice in this debate because every time you turn on the news channel, everything you read, you know, you're writing every discussion with somebody else because every is not a border town. all people can think of a talk about are illegal immigration. nobody wants to talk about legal immigration, but i fundamentally believe unless we solve we have this efficient, workable legal immigration system. also good light incentive to have people come on the front door and then we know who's coming here, bring what skill sets and experience we need to

create a win situation unless we created a path like that where continually incentivized illegal behaviors. so i really, really want us to come come back to focus on discussing how can we set up our legal immigration to offer the right incentives to come some doors and not so much to come to the back doors. i mean, what we how this it's a mess well the first two items in the republican platform for the 2024 election number one seal the border, stop my ground invasion number carry out largest deportation in american history. what do you think of those? so i think for the very first bullet point, the first part, sort of the first bullet point has a like a two part. why seal border and what's going to seal the border and stop migrants invasion and the word invasion invasion.

i do not like the word invasion because we know this we know majority of them are economic migrants. i mean, yes, there definitely bad actors with malicious intent. you know, america, we know we we that too. and we don't know how many of them, but can guarantee you it's a small number that does not mean they're going to cause harm is. still have the capability to cause a big but a majority of the immigrants know we talk to the other ones who come here for economic reasons. so they are not like an army of, you know, of invading army i think is a condescending to call them invasion. but i do agree. but i do agree that we need to strengthen our because right now, you know, public policy is always about a trade off. right. so when we have lawlessness border, then you have a border agent that you are supposed to protect our border screening guys out. now they're all in process center to help the people to you know process immigrants for economic migrants and not

protecting our border. so some must be done. so i totally agree with the first half that i first would appoint, but i i really wish the republic come find a different term to describe it because. on the immigration issues, you probably have a hard time chewing over those immigrant and america. you know, part of because of that reason we need to learn to talk about immigration this issue better. and then the second one, i definitely disagree on deportation deportation. i think i wish it would make sure that people who commit a crime or people who we find out people have a criminal history or they commit a crime in america, we should deport them immediately. that's not true. but i'm sort unfortunately in the last three and a half years, joe biden, him close to 10 million people and we don't know minimums are where they are. and then it's already already started down. i think a mass deportation it's it's a fantasy.

i don't know how these are other like logistically workable right so and i see that you again we talk about poison the well for political compromise the immigration issue is a left and right issue. it's a national security issue. it's an economic it's a issue that touches so many americans, so many towns. you know, we need to come from foremost, from both sides. we cannot continue do or say things that to poison the political will to come to the middle to do this, because even nobody's doing anything seems only going to get it worse everywhere it is. seen that in the last three and a half years, we as a country cannot afford to keep going like this. this is the second edition of the broken welcome mat. what did you update? i learned a lot about the illegal immigration portion. just forgive me. happened the last three and a half years and also updated some

of policy recommendations, especially on the asylum, a part in my first edition. i do not think. it was as a big deal. so i a very simple solution to say, oh, we should review it. but in this a new edition i actually want agree to let us go back to the history, see how especially if i can you a quick example on the company. the miners write. it was towards the end of the george w bush towards the end of his second the presidency that the u.s. congress passed the anti human trafficking laws. basically there's a a clause there to say, oh, wait, you know, if there's a miner across the border illegally, we must protect them, not to send them back again. we're talking about incentives. so once that law came into effect, even though it was all the good intention to protect miners, that it an incentive for those traffickers as well. as families who desperately to escape their home countries

economic conditions, to send miners across the border. so now we have this huge problem of hundreds of thousands of children came across the border illegally and ended up a ministration. you know, you heard there's not it's it's not as accurate description. the pictures overhyped kids in page know discussion and recently like last week at the congressional hearing whistle blowers of the hhs at hhs homeland security came forward and talk about how the vitamins and they were so desperate to have the bad optics of kids in the cage so they released kids prematurely without without a lot of a vetting security value on who they released the kids to. so there's this whistleblower came forward. it turns out that we are our

government are releasing kids, minors to become members, drug dealers, human traffickers or release them to became child or released into prostitution. so instead of protecting the kids and we're choosing the laws intention to actually, in fact instead apply tax on the kids work here, we're creating humanitarian crisis on minors. so this this you know, again, we have go back to how we write each law and what's its intended unintended consequences. so that that's the section really update quite a bit here's the book it's called the broken welcome mat america's un-american immigration policy and how should fix it. the author, ellen rowley, thanks for being with us. thank you for having us. and we're back for more live

coverage of the miami book fair. next, you'll hear from members of the author band the rock bottom remainders, including dave barry, mitch albom and king. hello. hey, afternoon and welcome to the first edition of the miami book fair. all right. i am patrick phillips.

i work here at the college and event is possible due to the miami dade college and our family and volunteers. and let's give a round of applause to all volunteers that are helping us today. so the room is full. we an exciting session coming up. i have a few words to offer about sponsors and then i will introduce introducer so let me just say thank you to the family foundation, the nicholas child children's hospital to amazon and to the j.w. marriott and brickell and markey and the of the fair. do we have any friends at the fair right. give yourselves a round of applause and. we always need friends. everyone. more friends. so talk to our friends about what the benefits are. and we love for you to become a friend of the fair.

and in departure from our normal procedure we're not going to have a q&a after this one. and there is no book signing. so we're going to spend all of our time enjoying the rock bottom remainders. and right now, i'm going to introduce our introducer mark cass. mark grew up in connecticut, the son of a librarian mother, and he's been a resident of miami and a practicing for 40 years. he and his wife, donna, who's an avid reader, are the proud parents of three children, jordan brianna, alicia, whose who have been book fair volunteers for many years. his in-laws myrna and sheldon paoli were lifelong supporters of the arts in miami and in particular, supporters of the book fair. and he is proud to be the presenter of tonight's program on behalf of the palace family, including his wife, donna katz, and lisa here. let me introduce mark.

afternoon, everyone. as i expected, a very poorly attended event. it's my pleasure and honor to. introduce our guests this afternoon. i may be dating, but i feel like a little bit of a taller and modern day version of ed sullivan, who 60 years ago introduced to america another historic rock and roll band. so. so without any further delay and with the caveat that parts of this introduction supplied to me by dave barry. please welcome on bass ridley pearson. and on guitar stephen king on harmonica sam barry on keyboards. mitch albom on guitar. dave barry on wig. scott stroh the emcee of the band, roy blount.

on awkwardly standing around alan zweibel. on backup vocals and attitude dancing. mary karr and on whip amy tan and joining them joining them in conversation is moderator lisa napoli. ladies and gentlemen, the world's smartest and most literate rock and roll band, the rock remainders. hi, everyone hi. hi. oh, my goodness. dave barry me into this because i'm a long standing groupie of this, which means i know all their secrets. i even have a copy of the only they've ever written that's been remainders which is this. but 1992, i think it's from.

yeah. so you can mug me for this later on and get everybody to sign it for. you tonight. i wanted to start by asking even though i've been hanging around for about 15 years, because i live with the group's manager, ted, who i still haven't married, much to dave's chagrin and promise that the band would play if i did get married. amy. dave's stephen ridley. roy blunt. roy blunt. okay you got a fax and then of a sudden this came about. so how did that happen? stephen, you can you tell the story so well. that dave dave. so wonderful woman named cathy goldmark who was a literary escort. san francisco. which means when you are caught, literary escort when you're a book, she would take you around

to the interviews and get you back to the airport. whatever was also a rock musician in san francisco had this idea that she would get a bunch of authors to play one time. one time a fundraiser for literacy or some cause. and amy once said we would do this to kill the whales just when we but but the idea was we're going to do one time. but she sent faxes out to whole lot of people and all the people who they would be in this band became the rock bottom remainders. and and we we did our one show. we were not good. we had a musical director, al, who we're still not good, i should stress that. well, our music director was guy named al, who is a very well respected rock and roll producer and musician and after our first rehearsal, he you got us all together at the end of the day and said in the morning, just when we started today, we stunk and now we stink a little bit less. maybe eventually we'll just be a

faint odor and that so we played a show and at the end of that show, stephen king. i, i sat in the lobby of this this place where we played i guess there was a lobby there. it was cowboy boogie or maybe went back to the hotel. it's a long ago. it's hard to remember, you know, the fog sets in. this was 1992, believe it or and we were all we had black hair and our hair. we had hair, too. and i said to dave, you know, this is really too good to just do it. one time i mean we could do it again or we could do it a bunch of times and write a book and that would be, you know, like my wife says that lobster's excuse to eat butter.

okay. and the way that i feel like it is that the book was an excuse to play -- rock and roll, you know. the other thing that al said that first time was we something i guess it was read song six, four, three, two seven, eight, nine or whatever it is. and al said, let's do it again. try to make that quantum leap to palatability. so that's, that's how it happened. and so we did a rock and roll, right? and it was really one of rory's old busses. yeah, it was his old bus man. ahead, the most amazing kitchen. and that's that's what happened. and roy, you were part something called are still the critics. what's that? yeah you know how you can tell a writer who can diagram if he doesn't know how to turn the

mind. i'm. oh, i don't know. yes. the critics chorus they want joel selvin and matt groening and me and i don't know. and then local de dave. ah, he's actually right. right, right. real greil marcus. joel selvin. joel, i think, huh? matt groening we've now said joel and matt twice, which i think is their right cause this were our job was to make clear that we were not pretending to be a good band because anybody who had us as a critic of course would was, you know, well, reasonable, bold in its ambitions, tell them the that you named us our it was, you know some kind of. yeah why wasn't it hard listen hard listening yeah have a little i have that in to these

days hard of listening you know as long as i've been hanging around you i've never really understood how amy came to become dominatrix in the band well, that's. that's a through line and there's so many stories. but amy how did that happen? you're such a well i know, but when can they ask me to join, i thought it was just about cost points. i didn't know i had to sing and. i was freaked out. and so in the beginning the first show, i sang this really sweet bye-bye love song. and then when it came to the second show, al kooper. said, i picture, ah, he said this. in fact, i picture sweet young amy wearing thigh high boots, leather a and a cap, and she's the and i said, that is the most thing i've heard. and then kathy wisely said well, we could always sing something sweet like bye bye.

and i realized that you know this is about being really and that you'll see if you come to the show it's they're really they are really bad and need a lot of discipline then and it turns out that's become my signature song. oh that's supposed to be a surprise so you don't know that you come to the show you say singing in public is akin to public execution is what you said in this book. yes, i did. yes, you did. it's been a long time. yeah, we had we had a really good compliment. i remember bruce springsteen. do you remember that? and we were at the rock roll hall of fame and and somebody said to me to freak me, nancy sinatra is in the audience, and i really did. she wasn't. but bruce springsteen said that that later he was in the back and he said, you guys are not

that bad. but then he said, but if you get any better, you'll really be bad. and that is the difference. bad and really bad. i want to ask ridley and mitch there too, and are real musicians, but let's talk about the rock and roll hall of fame a little bit more first, because it's my understanding that you got is before my time, you got busted at the rock and roll hall of fame. i think that was because of mitch impersonating elvis against, the rules or something like that, you know, yeah, what happened? we were, we, we have played twice at the rock and roll hall of fame, which is sad, right? yeah. how did that hootie the party that opens the rock and roll hall of fame and the thinking there every major rock musician in the world was going to be there that night. and if they picked one of them to play it sort of be a death on all the others. but if they picked us, nobody

would even have to listen. so they picked us and i'll know. we watched. stephen walked in, stephen sing by me and walks in and who's right in the front? betty king. i'm the guitar i'm carrying a guitar case. boom. hit this guy really hard and apologize. and he's like, and it's steve cropper who's a really good guitar player, professional. but anyway, that was one time we played. another time we played. we're in cleveland and us that night were frank mccourt great. frank mccourt, the great late frank mccourt and roger mcguinn of the byrds who used to play regularly with us. why me and we were in somebodys room after the show and were drinking wine and beer and frank and roger both irish start to sing irish folk songs, and they were singing and singing and, pounding on the door. and this comes up and tells

roger mcguinn and frank mccourt to shut up, man, did you get arrested? i hope no, they but they threatened that if we didn't, you know, which would have been it would've been good but the the at, the rock and roll hall of fame at that fundraiser the manager of the building came to me and said, you're contract specifically, says noel impersonators. i know that. and i said, i we're not coming back. you should probably context that for everyone who wasn't there. okay so and i was very young man i, i was a musician and i lived over in greece or ended up over in greece, in ireland of crete, in a little fishing village village goose nickels. and i ended up getting a job singing there. and it was so remote that i did elvis songs and i think they thought they were original. and so i kind of got used to

doing these elvis songs and i were going to dance around the tables and everything like that. then when we got to the band, dave asked me to be in the band and somehow they asked me, you know, do an elvis or i do an. and then came a jacket and a wig and i didn't know it was illegal, though. i didn't know that i had actually broken any any laws. bob i do it so badly that i really don't think it qualifies as an actual elvis impersonation. if you come tonight, i would encourage you to leave before that song. it's like three songs from the end so you can, you know, scoot out. but that's how i, i still end up doing the elvis. you got to look up mitch and burt bacharach google, mitch albom and burt bacharach and you can see him interviewing him. it was an amazing night at live talks l.a., which ted runs a little plug for ted ridley. you are a real musician, too. so what was your thinking about? musician well, i same way. got a fax from cathy and said, i

have no idea who's going to be in the band at that point. i think i'd sold about 12 books, but i was out on author tours and i it was three or four weeks later i received a fax back and she said, so you're going to be bass player and here's your band amy tan, barbara kingsolver, stephen king, dave barry and i about fell out of my office chair and i said, hey, what? you know? so. so i struggle on bass behind everybody, but it's been a ton of fun. we have one. you mentioned a legal and we did have actually an against the band, and that's because there's a certain creative writer in the band and he likes to improvise lyrics. so we would repeat sing this one song that it's illegal me to mention and as he got into the as got into the lyrics, he would begin to make much more horrific. there were mentions of spleens on the ground and other things.

well, this got around somehow to the people who licensed this song and they you may not mess with our lyrics. and we said is stephen king, we can mess with anything. and they filed injunction against us. but we had a secret weapon. we had dave barry well okay, i used to do this. it was the, the, the was, was the name of the company. i don't want to name. okay. acuff-rose i used to get the whole audience to say instead of acuff-rose a bodily part that's very bad. say that was our revenge to them. but stephen the lyric the one not this is not the one we got sued about. but stephen, i don't know if you ever remember this. we're doing a song called last kiss or, you know, one of those teen death anthems. do you remember what you sang? teenage when i awoke, you know that line? when i awoke, she lying there,

i. i don't remember. this is what he sang one night. and we're like, when i woke, she was lying there. i brushed her liver from my. he just just declared. i think it was vile of crack and teen angel. i'm allowed to say that you're going to get now. i'm going to get sued sam. i want to talk with sam a second about cathy. the foundries of this group, because sam actually married cathy everybody loved cathy, but sam married her the late cathy. yeah. i love, too. so i married her. yeah, i would. well, what i have to say about that is, i mean, i love this band is so much fun. i just got to tell you, this is family. and and he actually family. but this band is like family and i love playing with this band. i've always told people that

know i married cathy. my brother's and i got into the band via double nepotism, you know, so but cathy was just a wonderful person and she i don't think i've ever met anybody wanted like if she would get of you up here to do something, she could. she just loved getting people up, singing and playing, whether they were good or not. and thus we have the right bottom remainders. okay, scott, let's talk about your antics because they're kind of fun and, sort of surprising if you've never seen the how did you develop your character since you have no musical talent whatsoever, right. it's all right. it's from the emphatic need to make it clear to everyone that these people not take themselves seriously. if they let me on stage them and so i originally was recruited

and i was so desperate to be member of the rock bottom remainders when. they said, well, you know, the only opening we have is for another chick singer. and i said, okay, i'll be the chick singer. so i started appearing in wigs and feather boas, and you, the rest is history. i like that. yeah. you know, but alan came along and he sort of outed with a lack of rhythm and lack of musical talent. i wroteve and the course of writing the book, he said, hey, would you like to become a remainder? and i said, well, i can't sing or play an instrument. he said, already, you're over. and to this day i would be shocked if. my mic was actually turned on. okay yeah, i don't think ever has been. it's actually not turned on and literally shocked mary somewhere in the middle of all this or

edge of all of this but she's better looking than alan so i was the reason we were here? no i mean, amy and i were friends. let's face it, everybody there's too much testosterone alone in this band, and i'd be a lot more, actually, i have some. i have some dominatrix tendencies and i think, amy, i don't know why you ask me to do it. i mean, i you know, it's too much to too much testosterone, but i also am gravely untalented, musically speaking, and probably every other way that i say that. but. you know, i had such a crush everybody. and just on the expense allowance, it is a hairbrush band. it's not it's not a it's humiliating, you know, but i've

been humiliated before. look at my. but i know mean when people say it's family, i've got to say we don't see each other. that often. we when we cross paths, we, we see each other in pairs and, in triples. and, you know quartets troubles triples. i'm trying to be, you know, just great. but yeah, i, i always had go go dancer tendency i think if you have any dirty dancing experience then this is the place for you let's talk about the real mavens played with you like bruce springsteen i'll tell the story okay because i've told this a lot of times so we were in l.a. it wasn't a rock and

roll hall of fame. it was l.a. and we're in a little club and we were playing. there were maybe a thousand people there, right? dave okay, that's big for us. and we finish and we run offstage and they're still clapping remarkably. and someone we should do an encore because they often don't clap after we or have left the stage. and so we start back on the stage and i see guy in like a reddish pink shirt and i thought he was the janitor he was skinny and he was kind of rag d looking and we go running back out and he takes a guitar. i thought, well, that's weird. the janitor's the guitar, but you know, that's probably better than us. so and he comes running out and we all run on the stage. and i was standing on the riser because that's where the keyboard is. and dave's in front of me and he comes out now this guy's got this guitar. my guitar? yeah.

okay. took dave's guitar and he's got it on and like, fiddling with it. and so lean over today and i go, dave you know, who's this guy? and dave turns around, he goes, bruce springsteen. you know, you could have fooled me. i mean, they had cap and all that. well, i had to ask him. we only had one song left. we don't that many songs. and our encore always gloria, which is very simple song. if you take a guitar and throw it on the ground, it will play. gloria right, right. but i asked bruce, bruce springsteen, bruce, do you know gloria. you know, i had to sing backup with with bruce and. oh you're so who are you singing? backup tuesday. i'm the lead on that song. steve just want to confirm who bruce and stephen king sang backup to. well, it was dave barry. thank you. yes, bruce was great. and yes it was dave barry and

that a very simple song. it's only three chords and i'm looking at bruce springsteen's uvula in his throat as he's singing yellow riaa and i -- up the chords i did. there's still this. there's three chords, but i got them all out of it was crazy i was totally starstruck. well, he you i don't know if you remember this. you introduced him and we have been playing for a thousand people and they had been nice us. we thought we were doing really well. and steve goes, we don't usually people come on stage with us. we're going to make an exception because this guy says he's pretty good. ladies and gentlemen bruce springsteen and he only got to the t of stick and those thousand people b can 10,000 people that. it was right. it was it was the loudest. we've ever heard anything. they all mobbed the stage and we

do. gloria which dave says this is i didn't know there were three course i have to learn the other two. i do it only one chord in that song. and so and bruce would just know dave would sing the lead and then bruce would rise up and go, gloria like that. and he brought back gloria and we finished each and we're so elated with our finishing that we run off stage never remembering the bruce springsteen's famous for doing like three and a half hour long concerts. he had no place to go. we would have out there. we could have done anything. yeah, we ran offtage and missed our opportunity to do another song with him. and then word had gotten out that he was there. and so we got locked in the basement of the place with him while the cops to clear the club. so we were stuck for he was stuck with us and that's when all gathered. i have a picture. we're all gathered around him and we all look like we're five years older. like.

and that's when he said, amy said it should. go. well, you guys aren't that bad. but i wouldn't get any better because if you get any better, you'll just be another lousy band and we took that as gospel and have lived by that. but the other that the other really besides roger bruce springsteen one time were it's zevon for whatever reason loved us and for like ten years he played every every time he could he would play gigs with us and but it was different because like his he had like, you know, a small fanatic fan base. but we could go anywhere with warren. and most of the time it was like, there's a bar in coconut grove called the taurus. i don't know. yeah, some of me with it anyway. one night we used to play at the book fair and we sometimes we would to play a gig the night before to try to learn the

songs. and so i called tom, the owner of taurus, his friend, and said, can, you know, do think we can complain? he said, well, there's a band that's going to be here that night. i'll ask him if they don't mind. and he said no, they'll let you use their stuff. so we go there and it's and i go, i'll never forget the place is jammed, but not for us. know. there's just the usual drunks at the taurus and the bar. and we come in, pick up our stuff, and i go, ladies, gentlemen, hi, i'm dave barry. this is amy tan. warren zevon, stephen king, and the that got bars. no, it's not. ted, why don't? you tell us about the time robin williams for you in san francisco. right. so 2003 i had written robin williams people and invited him to for the remainders and never heard anything until the afternoon of the gig. we're writing a bus from the airport and i get this call and

i'm quiet and ridley is the official worrier in the band and he looks at me like there's something wrong and he goes, ted is everything okay? and i said yeah, everything's fine. would it be okay? robin williams open for the band tonight tonight? take off. and then we ran over. we nearly ran over. could we run over dave in the van, the governor of california. i remember know we played at the fillmore. i remember. which i remember standing next to you when we were soundcheck, and we looked down on the floor and said, do you realize his played here? you know, like jimi hendrix had played there. and that's another part of this. it's amazing. well, should we play with did we go john when we with yeah, we played played with santana. lesley gore we played with gore and gloria gaynor. we sang the world's longest version of i will survive right

here in miami. that's right. yeah. she would not stop singing it. we like she sang it in english. she sang it all the way through in spanish without work. it closed it up, sang it through in english again, save on it in spanish again. it was her hit. it was her big hit. and she was not going to let go of it. then i. has there been anybody who's wanted to play with you who you didn't allow? amy says yes, yeah, no i can't. i can't say, because it's the people who said no. and kathy asked, you know, we all. yes. and there were people who were pretty big authors. now, i would never do. and then later they were asking to be in the band. or the other thing is they'll say, i'm a really good guitarist. and like, you think that's going to get you in this band. but we do miss greg. i'll side the i'll greg i was greg i was just watching who is a drummer guitarist.

he played with lot of different bands and you know he was just a fantastic guy. and he said to me one time, he said, you will sing don't fear the reaper. and said, why me? and he says, don't be -- stupid, because you're you. and i said, now wait a minute, greg, you wanted the long version. don't because you want to play that guitar in the middle, don't and he said, yes, i do. and i said, okay, but i will not play guitar in this in this song. what i'm to do is cowbell. i got to i got to have more cowboy. i got to have more cowbell. and so that's that's what i did,

man was great. it was i was fantastic with that cowbell every. we talked about the audience reaction. steve's project, the stage, the great, huh? yeah, that at one point. oh, you know what city were in chicago? it was very chicago. yeah. and we looked out and there were women out there holding their hands up with fire coming out of their fingernail? their fingernails were fired? no, the rest of us never got that thing. i thought so. but it really sees women standing in front of steven with their on fire and really comes over to me and goes i don't ever want to be that famous. i, i, i do. i, i believe that early on, before i was in the band that your brought large panties and threw them up on the steven wife put large panties and tossed them large size. i mean i was going to ask about

the panties we can we go back to that now? we're talking about panties. can we go back to dominatrix again? because amy got a letter about inaccuracies in mixing signals with bondage in your costume and bdsm. and i don't know anything about all that stuff, but you got some sort of letter. yeah, well, you know how would i know? a lot of people think i'm a professional dominatrix, and this is important, and i was wearing a collar and i got this letter that we had to read out loud that said, you know, dominatrix, not wear a collar. it's the submissive one that wears it. and it was it was it was a sincere letter. we would appreciate your letting know that was an accurate so yes, that was i'm schooled and i will be i'm woke now. so accuracy and just i think amy

school the dominatrix the the the asylum community. right i'm a good girl to you know i write mother stories so and you've been happily for a very, very, very long time. 54 years. yes, that's a pretty long time time. and and he's been part of the band and has nearly been killed by these guys. yeah. killed. that's true. yeah. well, first of all, i want to before i forget, greg iles is watching c-span and will say, hey, greg. hey, greg, we love you greg. need we sound bad without you, greg? we sound bad with you, but we sound worse without you. yeah but okay. amy's amy's husband, lou. is lou here? where's lou garvey? here? somewhere. anyway. lou. demetri is here. okay, lou's here. here he is. come here, lou. you. so i'm not going to give too

much away of the plot here, but we do a song, and where amy does very dramatic thing and lou has to play the part of a motorcycle person who is involved in a crash and so he used to do the crash. we would dive down onto the stage and and every time we would do it, it we would get a little more elaborate with it. hey, there we are. so finally, we're in new york city and lou does the best crash. i mean, he really goes down hard. it's very dramatic, exciting. he's writing well, this is wrinkle. he's writhing in pain now. that's we didn't do that in the act before. well, so steve and i are standing next and we to make it even funnier, we kick them. we're them. and he's writhing in pain. it's just really funny. laughs we get off stage at the end of the night. wish lou lou's at the hospital. lou. lou, your collarbone, correct? brack broke his arm and, managed

to complete the tour. still doing the act, but not falling quite as hard, right? yeah, that's a perfect segue. way to the spleen story. very famous spleen story of the day. barry, our hero. i was like someone. scott okay, tell us about. tell the story very quickly and then i'll shut up for the rest of the afternoon. okay? one night there are bands we've been told that practice the songs ahead of time. that's secret. that's not so much what we do. we play the gig and then we go. we sit a those songs ahead of time, but it's too late then. so we just go the bar. so we where we do a gig in new york city? go to the bar? and i i'll be honest, i had a little too many vodka gimlet and so i am trying to follow two conversations. roy blunt is on one side of me telling very funny stories, and scott's on the other side of me telling us long, long, complicated thing about his spleen. and i keep getting confused because i'm to listen to two conversations about whether he

has a spleen or not. and twice i interrupt to say, you wait. i thought you don't have a it's got no, i don't have a silly next point. third time i interrupt him. scott a gentleman he takes a sharpie and on my right forearm in big letters, no spleen. which solve the problem for the evening. then we all go to bed. not we're not that kind of band, but we all go to bed. have to get we have to get up really early next morning to catch a train to boston. we're going to do another show in boston. so i get up early in the morning. very little memory of the night before staggering to the bathroom. and i catch sight of myself in. the mirror. i see that there's words on my arm and it says no spleen. and i have no idea. that's and you know that urban legend about this salesman who's in a hotel and this woman slips him a mickey and he wakes up the next morning in the bathtub, covered in ice with a note saying, we have harvested your

kidney. so for just a few horrible seconds in new york, i thought, oh my god, they harvested my spleen, but i don't know where. look, you know, i know where it is. does anybody and gradually my brain reboots and think, oh my god, nobody. who would harvest you spleen. you don't need a spleen as whole. this god. sorry. there's probably an expression organ harvesting circles. he's so dumb he'd harvest the spleen. so anyway that. that was the worst thing ever happened to me on the tour. and it was scott toro's fault. yeah. i. because i've heard that story 100 times, and i always laugh. there's this. there's an incident. i think it was at the rock and roll hall of fame where someone came up to you, steve and i thought were steven spielberg. i saw the story tell the story. well, i've.

mistaken for steven spielberg a lot. and it's very and i'm you know, six foot three and he's five foot nothing. and and he's film director and i'm a writer but it's the similarity of the names i guess stephen and steven spielberg but actually that's an interesting to me what is an interesting story to me is we the critics cornered to start with you know we had all these these critics and none of them could and none of them could play. that was really kind of like their purpose they just kind of screamed think we were pretty good on short shorts. well, yeah, short shorts went to church. yeah we were short shorts or short shorts.

yeah so anyway, we decided that we were going do that song by the troggs and wild. okay. and we decided to. joel selvin, who is the critic for the san francisco and occurring a solo. okay he had a little thing that was like a sweet potato and it would go doo doo doo doo doo doo doo. that was middle. that was the solo for wild thing, you know, bahama mama wild thing. i think i love you. and then he played little ocarina and in rehearsal it went terrific and he gets on stage and he blew so -- hard no sound came out at and little by little i mean you had to see because he was bald and little by little

this redwood rise, it was like a thermometer until his entire face was puce. and he's bowing, he's bowing his -- off and no is coming out at all. and afterwards says, how do i do do that? i said, joel, you get. that's, that's my one remainder story. thank you okay writing. i think everybody can agree is a really isolating lonely sucky kind of profession. i do it myself. yeah it's pitiful so let's if we can just go down the road, what is it about? this band. it's fun, obviously. what's different about what you're doing with each other than when you're sitting at home working? typically? i'll have you for one thing, we

never each other. what are you and where do you get your ideas ideas? the worst, of course. but steve had a answer too. where do you get your ideas? i didn't know this. if i had known, i would have written many more books. i don't remember. it was bob's used. i was in utica, new from a little. oh, i used to say an enormous bookstore in utica, new york. and then i got into trouble from by that. but you just get you can't please everybody i could have said paramus, but you know yeah you know but the thing is about what we do is so low job i mean, every now and then some of us will collaborate on a book. it never really goes extremely

well. it's always tough. you have to somebody your ego in a way. but with the band, you know, we can talk with our peers and we get to fulfill our childhood fantasies. and so we still play like where in childhood. so, you know, it's a great a great gig to have. it's a great to have the band blow off a little steam and man, i just i love seeing you guys. i love it man. boy, were you going to say something? was i going to say to you, you look like you might say something? well, well, i mean, steve is just brought tears to my eyes. i forgot i was going to say that writing is more like playing the rock arena alone. ocarina solo.

alan, mary new. but what do you get on new? but you know but and yet we old don't we, darling i'm incredibly oh yeah no i mean writing is like butchering eels and and they say musicians do is playing and you said childhood dreams and it really is more like we just laugh all the time. mostly night with each other. i've got to say but plus everybody is i mean you guys know this you're probably this room for this reason is people who read and write are often really articulate it you know, because they spend a lot of time thinking about words and everybody on the stage is in is an inspiration as a writer both in their practice and i've got to say it no, i've got to say it. and there hilarious they're just

two of one. there's not one who doesn't crack me up. they are because they're lonely, sad because no one sat at their cafeteria table. this the cafeteria table. we. you know, samuel samuel johnson once said he was talking about women preachers, dancing dogs. this is in a time everybody got woke. and what he said was, you you don't expect to see it done. well, you're surprised to see it done at all. and we feel that way a little bit what we do. but, you know, whether you're writing books or whether you're playing music or whether you're just, you know, kind of goofing off and doing this stuff that

that we do sometimes the band you'll see tonight, you know, we're entertainers, okay? this is what we we're supposed to take you away for little while from whatever it was that you were worried about. and just kick some -- and have a good time. that's it? yeah. yeah. what i appreciate the most is that none of the members of the band has ever come up to me and said. i have a nephew who wants to be a comedy writer. can you read his 1500 page screenplay? right. that's never. oh, too bad. i was getting ready to, but i don't know. i think that you have a song prepared to play today might be a little early, but. and are we equipped to take audience questions?

but do you want to do the song first to get everybody primed to or are you ready? we were thinking about doing a song for you, but we're a little nervous about it. is it okay? if we do a song. yeah. i just want to stress ahead of that. we haven't really practiced this a lot. this particular song i have to be able to see ridley that one. and we need erasmo to come up on our sax player and his josh around. what can you do in a context that musicians coming? erasmo our saxophone player, he's a highly trained professional, not in josh kelly's is our drummer, so there are a few real musicians who join the remainders, their secret. so anyway, and they're here now, so we're a literary band, so we

want to do a literary song. this is a song about, a book we all know and love very much, and it's just a famous book we all love a lot. or at least we had to read it. in a movie yeah, moby --, --. i want to tell you all the story about a great big whale with the he got a great big it got a great big tail, big --. the big. but that ain't the thing that him such a sight. big -- is great big body is entirely. white and the moby --. moby. well, he's the baddest you've

ever seen. he's got a nancy and is kind of mean he strange plankton with baleen look at that he goes you're movie. day hey sorry. okay. well, one day moby he swimming round about it day the day a cat named ahab tried to take him down. yeah. okay. ahab messed it, fell off the ship took and moby his leg like a pringle cheer all day.

well. well, he is a bad thing you ever seen. oh, it is kind of nasty. and is kind of mean. yeah. he beat that boat like a tail. marine. look at that. oh, moby --. --. take it. but you could take it. yeah well, ahab came back for another try and. yeah, he took harpoon and he let it fly. always take that take the things got rowdy and things got. yeah. they get it. and now old ahab with the fishes more than they get. oh well he's the baddest you've ever seen. okay it kind and nasty and is

kind mean. oh he made love to submarine. look at that. oh he blew. oh moby --, fade out now we're fading out. oh, moby --. yeah, yeah. take that from moby --. --. that you saw. that? yeah, that was the highlight. my life. just to know. just see, you know, we don't practice the songs as much of that one as you will find out tonight. all right, amy, just say. there was too much testosterone in this band, and i think that it proved you were trying to say something. i'm sorry. you were going to say something? no, not me. i'm a girl. i, i, we wrap it here. shall we take a couple of questions? yes, take a couple of questions. any questions? okay. before we have mike at somebody

with a question, you're all you all complained in this book getting older, but now it's 30 years later. so you're really old and he wisdom about aging? no, no, don't do it. okay. okay i'm. i'm just killing time trying to get to the question. is there a microphone where people are like, okay, we have so many microphones up here. all right. so no wisdom. okay. let's our question. i can't believe you sang that song on c-span either. that was pretty. and stephen king said the f-word twice. that was pretty good. only he could get away with that. okay. yes, please. thank you. hi. i'm so nervous. but my question is for mr. king. i was wondering if when you start writing some of your novels, which i've been reading

since i was 14 years old, and i'm a lot older than that now. so thank you. thank you. thank you. do you know if it's going to end just kind of badly or medium badly or like really, really, really badly? where do you get your idea? that was for me, right? yeah, i usually it's like plotting the course of an intercontinental ballistic missile. in other words, you you think know where it's going to land but if you get in the neighborhood and there's a big enough, it's going to be okay. so i don't necessarily really know where the book is going to come out. i sometimes have a an idea, but i don't. i'm the book tell itself mostly. yeah. yeah. thank.

thank you. next, please. so first, i just want to point out that taylor swift is a lot of money at her concerts. i don't. you're a lot of smart people, but i think you should take a cue from her and go out on tour. but last night we had the pleasure of listening to amy tan talk about her new book and she told the most wonderful story about her role tonight as a dominatrix in baraka. and i just thought, people need hear that story, amy and amy go for it. you know, i have this automatic answer when, say, what do you play? what instrument do you play? i say, i play instrument of pain, which i'll understand later. and the other thing i say is i play the dominatrix. so one night talk about namedrop i was having dinner with barack obama, president obama at the white house, seated across from him. and he said, i heard about this ban. and i was kind of nervous.

and when you're nervous, you kind of don't have a filter on. and he said, so what do you play? i said, hey, play the dominatrix. and i just said, oops. and then i said, i play the leader of the pack and i think you should join our band, because you are the leader. i got to i got to tell you a story. the first time that we got together in los angeles to, do this this first gig, which we thought was to be our only gig. we waiting for amy and amy didn't come. and at that time, you know, she was just i don't know dressed in black or something. and derek guy turned out away. she thought she was a hooker. well, that's another

qualification. i think there's one story we haven't told about the reach of stephen king, which is that our bus broke down. we were traveling in one of aretha's old busses and our bus broke. we pulled in a pull off thing and the door opened and there was a guy standing there with a copy of the stand and one of the autograph and how did he know he somehow just don't know. yeah. is it one of you said something if you died in a bus bus crash. what would the headline be dave. i think stephen was killed in. it's not his fault. another question. excuse me, mr. king. so i had. question you once wrote this you said this quote about robert e howard, the creator of columbarium, and he had positive things. say about it. the first thing he said was sparks fly off the page to thomas. a but then the very next sense

you said about him, you said everything else here, it was terrible. but i don't know if you're aware of this. the del rey edition of all of his books always contain books and all this other stuff from simon can be called villainous. they only the positive part of the quote. they just cut the rest off. how do you feel about that? yeah. yeah. in all years, when you think about that, i, i i don't. i'm not sure know. so i think we're going to go to the next question, sir. thank you so much. say hello, staff. if you ever need another dominatrix, let me know. but no, this is for stephen. so if you could play with any of your fictional characters from any book, who would you like to play with and what instrument, what they if i could pick, a fictional character to do what any of your from any of your books with an and what would play maybe a larry underwood from the stand he would be a good one. oh i can't think of anyone else

right that's good. but i've got a new book coming where they say a soul singer and i would love to sing with her. she is based on mavis staples. i love mavis. she spent tastic. very. so thank you sometimes. hello. i really like of you. but i'm actually here to ask stephen king a question question. stephen, you said that tabitha took the draft of carrie and pulled it out of the trash. i was wondering, did she get like a cruise or a nice dress out of that or like, what was the reward for pulling carrie out of the trash? she she pulled out of the trash. i didn't get the rest of it. like, what was her reward for pulling it out of the trash? like, did you buy a dress or get her a cruise for that? oh, she pulled carrie out of there. yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. what the. what's your point? what was her reward like, why were you, like, she it out of the trash? and how did you reward her for

that? that was what i said. oh how would i reward for that? i bought her a hairdryer and it's got no, i mean, the thing was like we were living pretty much hand-to-mouth and and and i got to this call on sunday. my wife tabby was up seeing her mother and father in another another town in maine and he said, carrie, just. to paperback. so i said can we get a little money? he said, $400,000. and i went out to buy tabby a present and. there was it was sunday, man. it was bangor, maine. nothing was except for you guys. maybe remember this. it was an old chain was called rexall. yeah. and i went in and i bought her a hairdryer.

man. she thought it was really great, but thought the money was better. is anybody in the line lined up to ask roy blunt jr a question? anybody would back away. oh, i've got one. a couple back. come on up. come on. a oh, not that we don't love hearing from one person. and i thought i'm actually supposed to man it's the line and cut it off but since you ask so so roy your essay i may have sung with jerry jeff yeah something i always think when i see you here and he he passed away recently and you're still here. yeah. because i only sang once with jerry jeff yeah. jerry jeff walker was a. i used to make a living staying up all night with people and then remembering some of. and that was jerry jeff, who is kind of a saint of staying up all night. and i got up stage, i may have

gotten up on stage and, sang dropkick jesus through the gold pole. most of life, but hence the title. but that was i can't do that in case you going to be tempted to take me out and get me drunk and roll me and i think we have a couple more questions before two more questions before we have to go get ready for tonight's show. so my blood pressure is currently god over? --, this is for mr. steve and jane. i'm so sorry. so life has been. it's been a good one. kind like one of your horror stories. you know, we just won't really get into that. but i did have we. yeah we just. and just if you can do your question sir, because we've got to just wrap it up. okay. i have a in my pocket. can you sign my body and go get

a tattoo. much better direct. okay that's fine. what what. sorry, i have a sharpie in my pocket. what? wondering if you did sign a piece of my body and i to get a tattoo at the tattoo parlor. okay. just the reminder questions typically begin with w or an h r no. no, i won't. a piece of your body. but i appreciate the offer. okay. this is our last. good afternoon. it's been a pleasure. question is for mr. king. aside from visiting unica, is there any particular you get in terms of how you conjure dread, you know, within your, within your manuscripts, within your books. so aside from visiting unica, are there any specific inspirations you have for dread

the way you kind of, you know, really bring it on most of your manuscripts and how do you conjure dread besides visiting utica books? how do you. well, you know, i think of dave berry. it it works. it works time. i when it doesn't work with dave i try really. pearson you know know i mean listen, if the characters are real, you're to feel for them. it's as simple as that man. it's really it's really i don't know why everybody doesn't do it, but i'm glad that they don't. because, you know, i can put my kids through college and buy your wife. thanks. thank you. thank you. all. thank you all. see you tonight. i want to i want to thank you all for coming. but you know, the band is playing at 7 p.m. on the main stage, off the shelf stage. take right downstairs and keep

on going through the stage at 7 p.m..

we'll have more live coverage of the 2024 miami book fair after a short. walk us through how executive agencies of the federal government grew so big and became involved, such seemingly trivial things such as magic acts and orchid growth. yeah, well, you know, maybe when this started coming to my mind. i'm sitting on the 10th circuit in a federal court of case comes before from new mexico and my. seventh grader is training burps for laughs. now, you might have been guilty of that too. i probably was. and instead of to the principal's office, his parents being called. he was arrested and handcuffed. that's how we're dealing with these things today. and