no one wanted that to happen. no one wanted a veteran attracted, married 35 euros good world cup woman to be shot and killed on camera. john earl sullivan, his blacklight black lives matter freelance, celso for $35,000. it's on the air that night. now the people who hope that this would materialize into a riot are a little panicky because now the martyr is one of the protesters, , not one of thr own people. >> you can watch the rest of this program and all of our book programs anytime online at booktv.org. >> you've been watching booktv, television for serious readers. every sunday on c-span2 hear from nonfiction authors discussing their books and watch your favorite authors online anytime at booktv.org.

you can also find us on facebook, youtube and x at booktv. >> this week on the c-span networks, house is out as house republicans hold their annual retreat. the senate will be in session as they continue to hold hearings for several president trump's cabinet nominees including robert f. kennedy, jr., president trump's nominee for health and human services secretary. he will appear before the senate finance committee wednesday and the center for health, education, labor and pensions committee on thursday. al on thursday kash patel will testify before the senate judiciy committee as he seeks to become fbi director. tulsi gabbard, will appear before the senate intelligence committee. watch this week live on the c-span networks or on c-span now our free mobile video app. also head over to c-span.org for scheduling information or to watch live or on-demand anytime.

c-span, democracy unfiltered. >> the c-span bookshelves podcast feed makes it easy for you to listen to all of c-span's podcast that feature nonfiction books in one place so you can discover new authors and ideas. each week we are making it convenient for you to listen to multiple episodes with critically acclaimed authors discussing history, biography, current events and culture. from our signature programs about books, after words, booknotes+, and q&a. listen to c-span's bookshelf podcast feed today. you can find the feed and all of our podcasts on the free c-span now noble video app or wherever you get your podcasts, and on >> president trump's nominee to. be u.s.reasury secretary scott bessent was approved by the

senate finan committee on ona vote of 60-11 to make democrats mark warner and maggie hassan joined republicans voting in favor of the nominatio advanced it for full senate confirmation next, his confirmation hearing before the committee, the nominee talked with importance of m president trump's 2017 tax cuts permanent among other issues. this is just over three hours and 20 minutes. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

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[inaudible conversations] >> this hearing will come to order. and before we begin our formal business, let me first extend welcome to our new finance committee members, we have senator marshall on the republican side. welcome, center. and on the democrat side we have senator lujan, sanders, smith, warnock and welch.

we welcome you all to the committee as well. you all bring great expertise to the committee and we look forward to working with you. i've also honor to lead this committee alongside ranking member wyden. senator wyden and i have a proven track record of working together to improve the lives of our constituents in the pacific northwest and on this committee. and we can't and will do so again in this congress. i look for to working with you, senator wyden. >> this committees jurisdiction, tax, trade, and healthcare policy, reflects some of the most challenging matters that congress could press. the finance committee will tradition oflong addressing these matters in the manner that invites bipartisanship and delivers results to create opportunities for americans. turning today'san d hearing, lee extend a warm welcome to mr. scott bessent, president trump's nominee for the secretary of the

treasury, as well as his family. congratulations, mr. bessent, on your well-deserved nomination and thank you for w your willingness to serve and for your extensive cooperation with this committee. it is only been a great pleasure to work with you if you been transparent, candid, and insightful with me and my colleagues., you spent countless hours come meaningfully answer our questions and according yourself with great courtesy, dignity and professionalism. throughout the committee's rigorous vetting process, , ando think our finance committee has the most rigorous process of any committee in the congress, you have worked tirelessly to meet our long-standing diligent standard. it is clear you followed applicable law and provided thousands of pages of documentation that substantiate your positions, positions supported by major law and accounting firms. accounting fir. thank you for your transparency

and responsiveness throughout the finance committee's exacting process. i look forward to continuing to work together with you. scott bessent has worked for the last three decades as one of the sharpest minds in the global finance industry including as an entrepreneur that started his own asset management firm. he taught economic history at yale university. he is a member of the council on foreign relations. he has served on the board of universities and nonprofits. he engages in a variety of philanthropic endeavors. mr. bessent based upon your background, experience, and character president trump made an excellent choice in nominating you to be secretary of treasury. as you have described it, the position for which you are nominated, is at the heart of the american economy. which is, in turn, at the heart of global economic growth.

a treasury secretary heads the agency charged with supporting economic growth, representing u.s. interest before foreign nations, and global financial markets and organizations. managing the federal treasury and overseeing financial institutions, to name just a few responsibilities. past successful treasury secretary's have understood business and financial markets as well as a policy and national security, budgets, and regulation. they have worked collaboratively with congress to enact the president's priorities. additionally, they have been forthright and communicative. the next treasury secretary will have to work with congress to preserve and build on the progrowth republican tax policies which have greatly benefited all americans. as well as improve our global competitiveness through trade deals that create market access

and combat china's unfair practices. as seen in the results of our most recent election, the american voters resoundingly red-p -- support returning to the robust economy we enjoyed during president trump first term. if you are confirmed, i look forward to working closely with you to achieve these and other essential aims. mr. bessent on behalf of my colleagues i thank you for your willingness to serve and again, congratulate you on your support. and on your nomination that i intend to support. with that i recognize ranking member wyden for his opening remarks. sen. wyden: i appreciate you introducing all the new members on both sides. as always, very kind comments about me, very appreciated. in a trump economy, the winner'' circle is small and dominated by the ultra-wealthy. working people and in the middle class are on the outside looking

in. trump and his advisers are in different to the problem -- in different to the problems they face each day. i have had more than 1100 open to all town hall meetings in my state. i will have several more this weekend. the second word i hear from oregonians in those meetings is almost always bill. medical bill. electricity bill. americans feel held down by the cost of living. they look at the growing fortunes at the top and they weigh that against their sense that america's middle class just does not have the opportunities to really get ahead. the american people voted for change, and more than anywhere else, they want change in the economy.

i do not believe they will get it from mr. bessent or donald trump. the centerpiece of the drug economic agenda is extending his 2017 tax law at a cost of more than $4 trillion. ultra-wealthy individuals that rake in millions each year would get tax breaks of hundreds of thousands of dollars. families who live paycheck-to-paycheck would be lucky if they can adjust get enough to cover the grocery bill for a week. how do donald trump and republicans plan to pay for their multitrillion dollar giveaways to the ultra-wealthy. for starters, they will be offering, across-the-board tariffs. let's be clear about what that is all about. trillions of dollars in new taxes paid for by working americans and small businesses.

to me, the ultimate distillation of the trump agenda is paying for tax breaks for the top by increasing child hunger, putting tens of millions off their health insurance, and laying off hundreds of thousands of manufacturing workers. it feels, to me, like a class war on typical american families. and the nominee, if confirmed, will be right in the middle of it. donald trump will be waging class war instead of fixing what is broken about the tax code. which is, there is a special set of rules which apply only to the ultra-wealthy. make no mistake about it. the ultra-wealthy people get to pay what they want when they want to. and often little or nothing for years on end. mr. bessent's case in point.

the taxes that fund medicare or automatic for the vast majority of americans. they come straight out of every paycheck. it is a civic duty that pays off as earned benefits down the road. but, like a number of wall street fund managers, mr. bessent makes use of a tricky legal maneuver topped out -- maneuver to opt out of paying into medicare, a tax loophole that hurts medicare, but benefits him to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars each year. now, the treasury department has gone to court to argue that taxpayers taking this position are violating tax law. make no mistake about that. that's not me making the judgment. that is the treasury department. they went to court to argue your that taxpayers who take this position are violating the law. i believe it is a big conflict

of interest if the nominee is confirmed. either he and his lawyers take the position that treasury policy does not apply to the treasury secretary, or he blesses a loophole that lets wall street titans blow off their fair share of medicare taxes. this is exactly the kind of abusive scheme which leaves americans feeling disgusted with the tax code. they feel it every spring when they file their taxes through big software companies as well. it is absurd that americans get charged huge amounts of money to file their taxes every year. that is why a number of us in this room were hard to create the new direct file program with resources from the inflation reduction act and the biden administration. it is a free option that allows taxpayers to file returns directly with the irs. no software middlemen picking the pockets or harvesting the data.

it launched last year to rave reviews and virtually nowhere in the western industrialized world do we have the kind of bureaucratic costly system we have today. we are trying to change it. 35 million americans across 20 five states -- excuse me, 30 million americans across 25 states will be eligible to use direct file this year. that is if it continues to survive. software giants want direct file killed. republicans are their side. maybe they will get their way. if they do, it will cost american taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars this year alone. trump and republicans are not stopping there when it comes to siding with special interest over the typical consumer. the inflation reduction act was the largest investment in clean energy in our history.

it was largely developed in this room. it took years to -- to try to find common ground around neutrality. the more you reduce carbon, the bigger your tax savings creating hundreds of thousands of jobs, saving consumers money on energy bills and along with record fossil fuel production it has brought energy security to a level not seen in generations. our country is in a clean energy arms race with china and other powers. but unfortunately, these policies from donald trump and republicans might prevent us from winning the arms race with china. that is because the trump administration is talking about selling out to special interest and far right ideologues that want to new the privet --

eliminate incentives that put us in the lead on clean energy. from what i have read, that is how the nominee sees it as well. it would be a recipe for higher energy costs, weaker energy security, and surrender to china when it comes to clean energy jobs and investment. in my view, that advice -- that defies common sense. many people, myself included, hoped the president elect would pick a steady hand for treasury of secretary -- secretary of the treasury, a moderating force that would work with all sides for the interest of all americans, for a tax code gives everybody in america the chance to get ahead, not just the people at the top. this is an important discussion today and i wish i had read something that would indicate this nominee would be the kind of treasury secretary are described. that is why we had the hearing to get his views. thank you, senator. chair crapo: thank you senator

wyden. today we are honored to have our good friend and colleague and budget committee chairman senator lindsey graham to introduce the nominee. welcome, senator graham. from the great state of south carolina. i want to thank you for joining us today and i will turn it over to you to introduce mr. bessent. sen. graham: thank you mr. chairman and ranking member at all my colleagues. there are only 100 of us and we know each other pretty well. this is my first appearance in the finance committee and probably last. y'all work on complicated stuff. i'm glad you like this stuff. it seems kind of boring to me, but it is important what you do. i respect the intellect of the people on the committee because our economy needs the best minds we can find on the finance committee. and we need a secretary of the treasury that knows what he is doing, has the trust of the

president, and has the trust of the president. your ship came in with this guy. he is academically gifted and real tested. he went to yale, so nobody is perfect. when he told me that i said i don't know about that. but anyway, he is really really smart and this is a compensated area. why am i here? because trump won. i would not be here if trump had not won. trump won because more people voted for him. and he had to take people to form his cabinet. when he talked about the secretary of the treasury, i am not the normal person you would go to ask about. because, this is not so much my portfolio. but, when he mentions god, i said o my god, home run, from my point of view. you are talking about somebody

that is academically gifted and understands the world. scott, like any republican president, he would pick scott. he understands the president and what the president wants to do. the reason i vote for almost everybody, for every president, is i believe -- my colleague said every president deserves a cabinet they know, trust, and can rely upon. if i had to vote for people based on a green with them, -- based on agreeing with them i would not vote for anybody you pick. i vote for people i disagree with because i think they are qualified. i asked the committee to think, is this man qualified? does he have the background, the intelligence, and the character to serve president trump and our nation's secretary of the treasury?

i think any reasonable qualifications beyond the -- he excels, beyond the bare minimum to the highest level of excellence but that is just my opinion. my goal today is to tell you about him. you have heard from the chairman about his success in the financial world. about his academic qualifications. he was born in little river, south carolina. why do they call it little river? because it's little. and it's a river. it is in ouray county -- horry county. it is between conway and myrtle beach. at nine years old his first job was to set up beach chairs and umbrellas in north myrtle beach. apparently, he did well there. because, north myrtle beach is thriving. he went to north myrtle beach

high school and was voted most likely to succeed in 1980. we have a high school classmate of his. what did they see in him? the same thing i see. someone who is really talented and works hard and is a good person. the kind of people you think will succeed, but you hope succeed. so, he lives in charlston. in a really nice place. going from little river to charleston is about a two and a half hour drive. it's a real change. since i represent south carolina i like them very much. he is married and they have two kids, caroline and cole and they are adorable. from a south carolina point of view we are very proud of scott. i was over-the-top happy when

president trump picked him. because i know him. i know where he came from. the rich and powerful do not live in little river. this is truly the american dream. this man has been successful with everything he has ever tried to do. he has worked really hard. why did president pick him? because he believes president trump's economic agenda is good for the country and he wants to help president trump be successful. here is what scott said. i think it is the building of economic policy with national security, economic policy and national security are now indispensable and a donald trump understands that. i agree. if we go -- do not have energy independence we are less safe. if we do not get our debt in

order we are less safe. i am known as a national security guy but i understand that economic policy matters. if you want to clean up the environment, a carbon fee seems to be a good way to do it to punish china and into their bad carbon practices. call it a tariff or whatever you want. president trump won. i am here today because he won. i am here today because scott lives in south carolina. i am here today to tell you if you use qualifications as your test, this isn't the easiest vote you will ever take. if your goal is to play like the election did not happen, then i guess you will vote no. that is just where we are heading in the senate. when you lose an election, do you get all dashed up and dust yourself off and ready for the elect -- when you lose an election do you get up and dust yourself off and get ready for the next one? i was honored when he asked me to introduce him because i know

this man and a miracle will be in good hands if he is our secretary of the treasury. he deserves this job. he is qualified for the job. president trump, thank you for picking him. on behalf of all of us in south carolina, we are extremely proud of you and we wish you well. thank you. chair crapo: thank you, senator graham. we appreciate you giving the introduction and now you are excused, as is our practice. mr. bessent, before we turn it over to you for your opening statement i have four questions we ask all nominees that come before the committee. the first is, is there anything you are aware of in your background that might present a conflict of interest with the duties of the office to which you have been nominated? mr. bessent: no, sir. chair crapo: second, do you know of any reason, personal or otherwise, that would prevent you from fully and honorably discharging the responsibilities of the office which you have

been nominated? mr. bessent: no, sir. chair crapo: third, do you agree without reservation to respond to any reasonable summons to appear and testify before any duly constituted committee of congress if you are confirmed? mr. bessent: yes, sir. chair crapo: finally, do you commit to provide a prompt response in writing to any question addressed to you by any senator on the committee? mr. bessent: yes, sir. chair crapo: welcome to the committee mr. bessent for you to make your opening statement. mr. bessent: chairman crapo, ranking member wyden, members of the finance committee it is an honor and privilege to be considered as the president's nominee for the secretary of the treasury. i want to thank all of you that took the time to meet with me over the past few weeks. i want to thank my spouse, john freeman, who is here today, and my wonderful children, cole and

caroline who are sitting behind me. chair crapo: can you pull the microphone a little closer to you? mr. bessent: who are sitting behind me for the ultimate civics lesson. i want to acknowledge three people that could not be here today. my 98-year-old mother-in-law celine freeman, a world war ii french war bride of an american soldier who lives with us in charleston south carolina making for a three generation household. my sister, page macleod beth sent -- bessent that does not like crowds, and my recently deceased sister who worked tirelessly as a public defender in one of south carolina's poorest counties. and i want to thank donald trump for having placed his trust and confidence in me for such an important role in his administration. while i have met with many of you, most americans watching at at home may be unfamiliar with my background. i have been blessed with fulfilling and successful career

but my presence here today was so far from predetermined. i was born and raised in the south carolina low country. my father fell into extreme financial difficulty and i was young. when i was nine years old i started working to summer jobs and i haven't stopped working since. i eventually made my way to yale , i accepted my first internship and finance because the job came with a pullout sofa and the office to sleep on which allowed me to live in new york city rent free. i have been involved in the financial markets ever since. i've been fortunate enough to work with some of the world's greatest investors in a career that has taken me to almost 60 countries over 40 years. my life has been the only america story that i am determined to preserve for future generations. i believe president trump has a

generational opportunity to unleash the new economic golden age that would create more jobs and -- wealth and prosperity for all americans. my life's work in the private sector has given me a deep understanding of the economy and markets and while this experience will be invaluable in crafting economic policy, i've longed here to the principal you should know what you don't know and lean on those who do. having never served in government, i intend if confirmed to be in close contact with each of you and your offices and seek your counsel. the treasury department plays a critical role in protecting american national security. we must secure supply chains that are vulnerable to strategic competitors and we must carefully employ sanctions as part of a whole of government approach to address our national security requirements and

critically we must ensure that the u.s. dollar remains the world's reserve currency. today, americans face significant challenges in an economy that has not created enough opportunities for working men and women. we have an affordability crisis, a housing shortage and for the first time in my lifetime parents feel as though the american dream is slipping away from their children. the federal government has a significant spending problem, driving deficits that have been at historically high 7% of gdp during the past four years. we must work to get our fiscal house in order and adjust federal domestic discretionary spending that has grown by astonishing 40% over the past four years. productive investment grows the economy must be prioritized over wasteful spending that drives inflation. as we begin 2025, americans are

barreling towards an economic crisis at year end. if congress fails to act, americans will face the largest tax increase in history, a crushing $4 trillion tax hike. we must make permanent the 2017 tax cuts and jobs act and implement new progrowth policies to reduce the tax burden on american manufacturers, service workers and seniors. i have already spoken with several members of the committee as well as leaders in the house about the best approach to achieving these important goals together. as president trump has said, we will unleash the american economy by implementing progrowth regulatory policies, reducing taxes and unleashing american energy production. the breadth and depth of our capital markets are the predictable progrowth tax policy and smart updated regulation will continue to make america

most popular destination in the world for starting growing and taking part in a business. and as we rebuild our economy and lay the foundation for the next generation of american competitiveness, we must use all the tools available to realign the economic system to better serve the interests of working americans. for too long, our nation has allowed unfair distortions in the international trading system. president trump was the first president in modern times to recognize the need to change our trade policy and stand up for american workers. if confirmed, i would look forward to working with president trump and members of this committee to do just that. members of the committee, these are just some of many important goals president trump has laid out for me and others on his economic team. i firmly believe that if confirmed and with your counsel and support we can usher in a

new or balanced era that will lift up all americans and rebuild communities across the country. i humbly thank you for your consideration and in eager to take your questions. chair crapo: thank you mr. bessent. before i begin my questions i want to reemphasize how appreciative i am of your diligence in the process that we are going through vetting here in the senate. i appreciate the more than 3000 pages of supporting material you provided as well as the countless hours you and your staff of offered to respond to questions from members of this committee. let me be clear, you followed all the applicable law and that the committee's long-standing diligence standards but your process match that which is applied to nominees in every previous administration. in my first question to you i want to go to the tax cuts and

jobs act which senator wyden and i have both mentioned already and you mentioned in your remarks. the attack on this statute, of this law, which is law. i will remind everyone it was passed in 2017. is that it was a tax cut for the wealthy. i appreciate you mr. bessent noting that it will be a four plus trillion dollar tax increase if we do not extend this law. and a point that i would remind all of my colleagues. the tax increase happens it's not just going to be something that impacts the wealthy. it is 2.6 trillion of it. the majority of it falls on people who make less than $400,000 for a family with two taxpayers. under $400,000. that's the number president biden shows to say he wanted to

protect 2.6 trillion of this tax cut is those making less than $400,000. moreover, massive amounts of it pass-through entities. small businesses across this country. this is not a tax cut for the wealthy that we are talking about. it is a tax increase on all americans. the majority of whom are in the lower and middle income categories. my question to you is one of our pivotal tax is to make sure this tax increase does not happen. can you give us your perspective on the impact that would occur in this country if we allowed this for trillion dollar tax increase to happen. mr. bessent: senator, thank you for this and thank you for the meetings over the past few weeks. i've enjoyed working with your staff and this is the single

most important economic issue of the day. this is pass fail. if we do not fix these tax cuts, if we do not renew and extend, then we will be facing an economic calamity and as always with financial instability, that falls on the middle and working-class people. we will see a gigantic middle-class tax increase, we will see a child tax credit cap. we will see the deductions have. so it will be what we call in economics it has the potential for a sudden stop. and as i said, traditionally with these sudden stops, it falls on working americans. chair crapo: you may be aware of this but the tax foundation is

indicated that if we do sustain these tax cuts and protect them from expiring and stop this tax increase, the extension of this policy would increase the growth of the gdp in the united states by 1.1% over time. similarly, at a don't know how they came up with the same number of the national association of manufacturers indicates if we do not extend this tax relief, that there will be a 1.1% reduction in growth of -- of jobs and development in our economy. it seems to me, that as we are talking about what to do for american, that protecting america from a 1% reduction versus a 1% growth in gdp is a critical objective.

could you just give a little bit of perspective. i know you just answer this question in another context but could you give a little more -- perspective on those kinds of dynamics. i will try to keep to five minutes and we've only got about 15 seconds left. i want to make sure everybody else stays on time so i will too. mr. bessent: i would just say the power these tax cuts in 18, 19 and going into january of 20 before they were interrupted by covid and the great success we had. mr. bessent: thank -- chair crapo: thank you. senator wyden: i've got four questions that i will ask and if we both can keep it brief i think we can get to all of them and you can really frame for us what this debate is all about. i will start by talking about the future of direct file. this is the program that helps people who choose it to save

hundreds of dollars when they file their tax return. last year, the irs launched it, it was enormously popular among taxpayers, but of course the tax software giants in their big lobby hated it. they want to shut it down. now the filing season starts january 27. so it opens in 10 days and millions of taxpayers around the country have already been notified that they will be eligible to use direct file this year. so i won't do this for every question, but i would really like a yes or no on this one. will you commit to keeping direct file up and running if you are confirmed? mr. bessent: i will commit that for this tax season, that direct file will be operative and the american taxpayers who choose to use it will and if confirmed i

will consult and study the program and understand it better and make sure that it works to serve the irs's three goals of collections, customer service and privacy. sen. wyden: i appreciate the answer. it means that taxpayers will save who choose to use it because it is voluntary, hundreds of dollars and will of a chance to see once again how popular it is with practically everyone except the taxpayer -- tax prep software crowd. donald trump, with no plan and no strategy says he is going to put across-the-board tariffs, blanket tariffs on all imported goods, which means that our workers and small businesses are going to get clobbered with additional taxes on probably everything they buy from other countries. my question here is who would

pay these tariffs, americans or foreign countries? mr. bessent: senator wyden, just to understand, so i can frame the answer correctly. do you believe that these tariffs are a consumption tax increase? sen. wyden: i believe these tariffs, you can call it whatever you want in terms of trying to gussy it up, they will be paid for by our workers and small businesses. all through the campaign we heard foreign countries would pay it. it is going to be paid for by workers and small businesses. mr. bessent: senator, i would respectfully disagree and the history of tariffs and tariff theory does not support what you are saying. traditionally, we see -- if we were to use a number that has

been thrown around in the press of 10%. then traditionally the currency appreciates by 4%. so the 10% is not passed through. then we have various elasticities, consumer preferences may change. and finally, foreign manufacturers, especially china, which is trying to export their way out of their current economic malaise. will continue cutting prices to maintain market share. sen. wyden: that is an academic view of it but what i know is the history of this is it clubbers people of modest means. they are the people who will get hit. all through the campaign there was a big show it would be paid for by foreigners. two other questions i want to get in. and i already made it clear when i talked about this. i am for a tax that gives

everybody the opportunity to get ahead. when i talk about my friend bill bradley. and i've been working for this for years. do you believe the tax code should treat wages differently then it treats wealth? mr. bessent: the -- in any tax system they advantages and creates distortions. it is a change -- senator, it is a decision that was made when the tax code were written and -- so every tax code's -- and, involves the trade-offs and distortions and in favor of other --, gains. sen. wyden: it sounds to me like you do believe that is fine to treat wealth more favorably. i couldn't disagree more. the idea that a dollar earned by hedge fund manager is more

valuable than a dollar earned by a teacher or factory worker. i just think it is a disconnect with the american people. one last question and that is about the legislation that was written in this room that was the biggest transformation on clean energy in american history. that is our package that basically said the tax code as it relates to energy is a broken down mass. we basically said we will have a technology neutral system, the more you reduce carbon, the bigger tax savings. now there is big effort in the trump administration to reverse it. i think that will be bad for the economy but it will be good for china because we are in an arms race on clean energy. will you be on the side of people who are looking to unravel this? mr. bessent: senator, senator wyden. just so we can frame this for everyone in the room. china will build 100 new coal plants this year. there is not a clean energy race.

there is an energy race. china will build 10 more coal plants this year. that is not solar. i am in favor of more nuclear plants. and i would note that the ira as scored by the cbo, is wildly out of control in terms of spending on the upside. sen. wyden: first of all, the clean energy package does prevent because members on both sides of the aisle wanted to be that way. what if you're going to talk about fossils, the united states has achieved a greater level of energy security and we have had in generations. oil and gas production is at record highs and it's not just that, it's about clean energy and i'm very troubled by your position denying that we are in an arms race with china on clean energy because we definitely are. chair crapo: i told senator wyden he could have those four questions but i want to remind everybody a five minute time limit.

senator grassley. senator grassley: congratulations. i want to start out where you and i talked about something in my office and you remember that tongue-in-cheek comment i made to you that you were going to be asked by the chairman will you answer all of our letters and everybody that comes to the hill says yes they are going to and i said maybe you better say maybe. because most people don't keep that promise. so i just want to remind you if so i just want to remind you if i write you letter, on oversight responsibilities i would appreciate it if you would answer. now to my first question. my democratic colleagues -- you will put that up. my democratic colleagues believe the only solution to our unsustainable debt and deficit is higher taxes rates, and that ends up being on job creators and families alike. however, history proves that

high tax rates fail to raise significant revenues. taxpayers, workers and investors are smarter than that. in other words, there are smarter than we in congress that thinks at one time a 93% marginal tax rate would bring in more revenue than a 70% tax rate or a 50% tax rate or a 30% tax rate, or a or a 40% tax rate. and so on. but as you can see from this chart, congress isn't too smart because the taxpayers decide how much money they're going to bring into the federal treasury. now on the other side of the ledger, federal spending is at levels we'vein never seen outsie of war and recession, and still growing. so i'm making a statement to you but if you'd like to comment on whether or not we have a fiscal imbalance primarily, or a

spending problem rather than a revenue problem. >> senator, senator grassley, i enjoyed visiting you in your office and willwi remind you tht when we're talking about the american agriculture that i may be the first treasury secretary nominee in a long time to knows what a section is, 642-acre, and involved in the farming business. and yes, we do not have a revenue problem in the united states of america. we have a spending problem, that historically for the past 40 or 50 years revenues, federal government revenues, have averaged about 17-17.5% of gdp. and spending has been slightly overer that, leading us to a 3.% budget deficit. which is manageable because we have roughly 3.8% nominal

growth. growth. 1.8% real growth, 2% inflation. today as you stated, and to be clear, this is one of the things that come out from behind my desk and my quiet life in this campaign was the thought that this spending is out of control. we are spending about 24, 25% of gdp. so. so as you said 6.8-7% of the set. we have never seen this before when it is not a recession or not a war. and i am concerned because several times the treasury of the united states has been called upon to save the nation. whether it was the civil war, the great depression, world war ii, or the recent covid epidemic,, treasury along with full government and congress has used its borrowing capacity to save the union, to save the

world, and to save the american people. and what we currently have now we would be hard-pressed to do the same. >> my g last question is one i k a lot of people to come from treasury. while i oppose tax hikes on individuals, families and small businesses, i have long champion sensible policies geared towards shutting down tax loopholes and providing tools to irs that detect tax cheats. prime example is my legislation that authored in 2006, the irs whistleblower law has brought $6 billion back into the federal treasury. this program could raise billionsog more if irs would use it to its full potential. so i hope i could count on you if you are confirmed, and think you'll be confirmed, to be

supportive of this whistleblower program and work to ensure its full use, to its full potential. >> senator grassley, we are in complete alignment on this program. >> thank you. next would be senator cornyn. >> well, thank you, mr. chairman. mr. chairman. mr. bessent, welcome to washington, d.c. you're getting a taste of what it's like year,r, which is an ot of body experience for most people who are not acquainted with it. i happen to represent a state that has the eighth largest economy in the world. we think we understand the formula for economic growth, prosperity and opportunity. we can lower taxes, reasonable and modest rental footprint and opportunities for people to prosper. and by ross bring, invest and create opportunities for other

people to pursue their dreams. we think there's a lot washington can learn from that formula. that sounds to me like you agree. one of the strange experiences ipad i've had here is that so many of our colleagues pensively on the other side think that the money that youou earn is not actually yours. it's the federal governments and you just get to keep a little bit of it. conversely, i believe the money people believe is theirs and they have a responsibility to pay taxes. but as you pointy out, and over tax burden or large tax burden has a way of depressing the economy and reducing standard of living. i'm grateful for your nomination and i think you are exactly the type of individual that needs to serve in this important position. let me ask you in the short time ith have a couple come one sortf

obscure question and another one that we discussed in our office. as you know y the market for u.. treasuries is a largest market in the world at $28 trillion and is critical to the financial stability of the united states. there's a proposal for an entity to declare u.s. treasury futures at the london clearinghouse which is overseen by the bank of england. some argue the bank of england would have control over a, have forbid, a default scenario in this critical market instead of the u.s. is this a concern to you? >> senator cornyn, i've enjoyed visiting in your office and i would note that while texas has more m arrivals to do good economic policies, south carolina has more arrivals as a percent of the population, also driven by our wonderful governor

henry mcmaster. >> i'm still going to vote for your nomination. [laughing] i think at 1600 people a day in texas, but go ahead. >> everything is bigger in texas, sir. you raise a very important question and one that i will investigate further. i was unaware until the past few days of this with a new exchange. what i can tell you as a student, professor of economic history, , that it is important for the u.s., for u.s. treasuries, for us to be able to resolve any stress issues in the market in the u.s. we saw during the lehman brothers bankruptcy that much,, many of the problems emanated through, from thesu uk subsidia. so this is something that, thank

you for bringing this to my attention, and i am, my inclination is that the resolution authority must live here in the u.s. but i will get back to you in writing with an answer on this, if confirmed. >> thank you. you mentioned china's one of our biggest challenges. and while i believe in free and fair trade, we know that some countries, pensively the prc, chinese communist party, , don't play by the rules. over the years by some estimates, u.s. investment in chinese companies totaled $2.3 trillion in market value. i was at the end of 2020. that included $21 billion. these are american companies that invested in china. .1 billion in semiconductors. .1 billion in semiconductors, 54 billion in military companies, and 221 billion in artificial intelligence. so it's pretty clear to me that u.s. investments