>> c-span "washington journal" a live forum for politics, public policy. washington, d.c. and across the country. coming up thursday morning, bobby cogan for the center for american progress will discuss the trump administration rescinding a federal aid freeze. a paragon health institute will review the top healthcare priorities for the trump administration. c-span's "washington journal," joined in the conversation live at 7:00 p.m. eastern -- 7:00 a.m. thursday morning on c-span, c-span now or online at c-span.org. on thursday, president trump stick to lead the fbi cash patel will be on capitol hill to speak with senators about his nomination. hes a former justice department prosecutorho previously worked as senior counsel to house intelligence committee and as an advisor in

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>> kelly leffler president trump 's nominee to serve a small business administration administrator testified at the confirmation hearing before the senate small business and entrepreneurship committee. she took questions as well as keeping small business competitive. a u.s. senator for georgia for 2020 until 2021. loeffler. i would like to welcome you all here today, and thank you for your willingness to serve. thank you very much, senator. i am also delighted to welcome the committee's new ranking member, senator markey, he has been an esteemed member of the committee for nearly 12 years. we both recognize the importance of our nation's small businesses deadly innovation, and i am excited to continue the bipartisan working relationship of our committee. i would also like to welcome back our returning members, and provide warm welcome to our new

members to the committee. senators kurtis, justice, custard and shift. i am looking forward to working with everyone, and i expect a very productive term where we focus on the most pressing issues facing small businesses, including tax and regulatory relief, to ensure our presidentiv trump's nominee to lead the small business administration, former senator, kelly leffler. i would like to welcome you here today and thank you for your willingness to serve to do the s. following that, we have senator scott and senator britt who will introduce our nominee. then we will administer the oath which is required. after the oath, senator leffler will be recognized for an opening statement followed by questions from our members alternating between each side. i now recognize myself for five minutes for purposes of an opening statement. senator leffler.

as i already said, welcome to the committee and thank you for your willingness to serve. i greatly appreciate the time you spent meeting with me and my colleagues prior to this hearing. i want to take a minute to recognize some of your family here supporting you today. first, your husband, jeff. thank you, jeff, for being here. next, your brother brian, and his family who i understand traveled from washington, d.c. from their farm in illinois. also your parents, don and linda who are watching from florida today. we appreciate you all making the trip here and tuning into this hearing. as a former member of this buddy, you understand the importance of the advise and consent process. i appreciate you have fully embraced of the committee's standard. the extensive vetting of your background in advance of today's hearing. as a successful businesswoman

it's a abundantly clear that you truly know what it takes to be an entrepreneur. throughout your career you have risen through the ranks of multiple companies due to your determination and grit and a house divided many successful businesses yourself. you understand what it means to be overrun by washington's bureaucratic overreach, and government must instead get out of business's away so it can thrive. a is excited for your leadership. the committee has assumed several letters of support for senator leffler's nomination. the mission of the spa is to aid small businesses to ensure economic prosperity and competition. traditionally, sba programs fall into three main brackets, counseling, contracting, and access to capital. while s.b.a. at once may have been characterized as a small

agency, covid's small business programs made sba a household name as the agency received a whopping 1.1 trillion dollars in taxpayer funding to assist small businesses during the pandemic. with that funding came big responsibilities, and i remain concerned the sba under the prior administration failed to live up to its mission. i believe substantial reforms must be made to get the sba back in shape and that it will require strong leadership. the biden administration decided to turn a blind eye to covid fraud and delinquencies, refusing to properly collect outstanding debt, and fraudulent funds, which has huge implications for the taxpayer. reports have indicated sba charged-off about $18.6 million worth of idle loans in fiscal year 2024. not once during the biden

administration was the sba able to provide an accounting of their loans receivable and loan guarantees, which meant that the government accountability's hasn't been able to even issue a financial audit of the agency since fy 2020. sba also completely mismanaged and misinformed congress last year regarding its disaster loan account, resulting in a shortfall lasting 66 days, an acceptable failure for the disaster victims in north carolina, south carolina, georgia, virginia, and florida. i do appreciate that once the account was funded, staff walked around the clock, including over the holidays to get the money out to disaster victims, but i never went to see that the tuition unfold again while. sba is failing, it also appears that it's workforce continues to stay at home. while it's more than 40 2000

square-foot washington, d.c. headquarters sits empty. the gao found that even if everyone did show up to work in person, the sba's building space would still only be 67 percent utilized, which is a complete width of taxpayer money -- waste of taxpayer money. which is what it introduced a bill to relocate the workforce to the sba district offices across the country and cut 30% of office space. the sba has been completely out of touch with the real world challenges of entrepreneurs and while the biden administration to simultaneously let sba employees stay home, they also added positions in washington, d.c. while stripping offices in iowa, new hampshire, utah, and other states. i would like to work with you, senator lefler, on ways to ensure sba is effectively utilizing its personnel and ensuring that small businesses

and all parts of america are able to access sba programs if they need them. i have detailed these concerns and others regarding the mess you have to clean up from the biden administration, and potential landmines you may encounter in a letter to president trump on day one of his administration. i ask unanimous consent to enter this letter into the record. without objection, so i ordered. in iowa, main street is in trouble, and i hear from colleagues that this is true in states across america. small businesses are the lifeblood of our rural communities, and for too long under the biden administration they have been cursed with red tape and woke program requirements with no one caring about how that affects the day-to-day operations. i see a great opportunity for the trump administration and you, kelly, to revitalize a small businesses. thank you again for being here, and i look forward to your

testimony. i now recognize ranking member markey for his opening statement. sen. markey: thank you, madam chair and congratulations to you, and welcome to everyone here. i'd like to take a moment to welcome the newest members of the committee on the majority, senator curtis and justice and senator houston. congratulations. on the minority, senator schiff from california. i look forward to working with all of you. senator schiff, i extend my sympathies to you and the people of california. it is devastating to see the horrific damage caused by recent fires in your state. we stand with you in these challenging times. unfortunately, climate disasters like those in california and that damage that was caused by just hurricane milton and hurricane helene in a three-week period in october of last year,

those three storms caused $500 billion worth of damage, much of it to small businesses. a i mean, that's more than half the defense budget of the united states, damage caused by three storms in a very small periods of time. not counting all the other damage it caused. it will only get worse and more expensive unless we invest in long-term solutions to keep communities safe. we need to provide resources for small businesses in places such as california, and the southeastern states to recover, to adopt, and to innovate. i was looking forward to this hearing to discuss on behalf of america's 2000 small businesses in massachusetts. we have 7 million people in massachusetts and 722 thousand small businesses. that is our state as identity. a small businesses. however, we find ourselves in a

new reality where programs across government can be cut at a moments notice with a cryptic 2 --page memo leaving lawmakers and american families alike scrambling to figure out whether the government is open for business. and gain new business owner looking to open her beauty salon expect to close on an sba loan and get our money on schedule -- yesterday we heard conflicting answers out of the red house. i can only imagine what that uncertainty does to a first time small business trying to meet expenses. unacceptable. we can't allow a plumber or child care provider in every town in america, someone who may have spent their entire life working for someone else and is ready to invest in themselves, a question whether their government will keep its word and stand behind them. apparently we also live in a new

reality where more than a dozen inspector general can be fired without notice or cause in clear violation of the law that required a 30 days notice. the inspector general at s.b.a. was illegally fired by president trump on friday night while he was a dinner with his wife. inspector general ware has earned bipartisan respect for his candor, meticulousness and tireless work ethic over 34 years of service, and because of his work, he was elected to actually chair the government-wide council of inspector general. having independent oversight at s.b.a. is more important than never give the breadth of its work, and i might add that under mike ware's leadership as inspector general, he collected

money in covid-related fraud. he did a great job. just for the record. he got fired on friday night illegally, without notice. i would jump on this committee is to support small businesses and create a ruthless marketplace that would bring a smile to adam smith. with is one of the wealthiest states in america per person so, we believe in capitalism. but we also believe in fairness. we want to make sure that every enterprising kid with a million-dollar idea has a chance to fairly compete in the marketplace. we can promote innovation and competition by strengthening progress like sbir, the small business innovation research program, and the small business technology transfer program, which help bring many innovative ideas to life. in massachusetts, small businesses have won more than 8

billion dollars in sbir awards and grants. and as ranking member, i went to work together with chair ernst to strengthen the programs, keep businesses in massachusetts and iowa and across our country competitive and build on the small business boom created under the biden-harris administration. under former president biden's leadership without a record 20 one million new small business applications. more than $1.220 in loans and grants to more than 13 million small businesses. 13 million. and the record amount of federal contracting dollars for small businesses. we need to keep that momentum up. i am looking forward to this next couple of years senator loeffler thank you for joining us today. i know that we share our belief

in access to capital in underserved areas is vital. i look forward to hearing your vision for america's small businesses, in particular i am eager to hear how you plan to promote competition, innovation, and job creation. it is an absolutely critical part of our economy, and as we know, elise and without funding is a hallucination. we just have to make sure that we keep these programs intact, protected, and flowing for everyone. thank you, madam chair. i look forward to this hearing. chair ernst: thank you, ranking member markey. next i would like to recognize senator britt from alabama to introduce our nominees. sen. britt: thank you, chair ernst and ranking member markey, and members of the committee. it's an honor to be here with you today to introduce my friend. she is president trump's nominee to be administrator of the small

business administration. former u.s. senator kelly loeffler. and a prolific job creator and entrepreneur, and in quintessential american success story. kelly grew up in the family farm, became the first in her family to earn a college degree, and worked her way up to the highest levels of business. she joined intercontinental exchange when it had under 100 employees, then spent nearly 20 years building it into a global powerhouse and a fortune 500 company. she went on to found that, and as its ceo and first employee, she laid the foundation to take the company public in just three years. since leaving the senate in 2001, she has been devoted her time to running a voter registration nonprofit. to me, the most striking and impressive part of her story of this -- she gave up a successful career in the private sector to serve in the senate, and donated

every single paycheck while she was here to charity. now that she has made the decision to serve the american people, once again, when confirmed, is confirmed, which i believe you will be, and strongly hopefully in a bipartisan fashion, with her signature selflessness, she will once again, donate her salary to charity. kelly is a perfect choice to lead the s.b.a., and i want you to understand why this matters. first of all, 99 .4% of businesses in the great state of alabama are small. so what you do matters. i am also the daughter of two small-business owners. so i have seen the struggles of my parents first hand. seeing that when people getting these rooms in d.c. and create big, burdensome regulation, the truth is that they hit the little guy the hardest. you get it. you have limited, and you are ready to fight for these

individuals, to fight for the american dream. you have a proven track record in delivering efficiency, accountability, and results of-driven leadership. she wants to empower every entrepreneur with the resources and support they need to pursue what they believe they can. in closing, i would like to say i have absolute confidence in her ability to strengthen our main streets, to figure out how to get capital to underserved communities, to figure out how we roll back red tape and let people do what they do best, job creators sort and achieve their american dream. helping our small businesses thrive like never before is what i am confident you will do. so thank you so much for the opportunity to speak to each and everyone of you, and thank you for giving her the utmost credence, because she is who we need in this role as the next sba administrator. thank you. chair ernst: thank you.

next we will have senator tim scott to introduce the honorable kelly loeffler. senator scott, you are recognized. sen. scott: thank you. it is my honor to be here today to introduce president trump's nominee to serve as the administrator of the small business administration, my friend, kelly loeffler from the great state of georgia. i agreed to introduce kelly today because her path, like mine, to success, and to the u.s. senate, defied all odds. she is standing before you because she loves the lord, she has an amazing work ethic, and, frankly, she loves our country as much as anyone i have ever met. small business business in rural america ran through the thread of the lefler family.

i love the story of her family. she is a fourth-generation farmer. her grandfather had an eighth-grade education. her father, a high school education. she worked so hard that literally her hard work and her strong value system made her the first college graduate, then later she learned her mba. her story is, frankly, a story of remarkable success generally one that we should all be thankful that america continues to create all across the country. one of the things that we often times think of when we think about success and the american dream is homeownership. for me, the dream was achieved through small business and having someone to be the administrator of the administrator of the sba who understands and appreciates small business, i have a good person for people like that. someone -- i have a great passion for people like that. someone who is not only at the top of the food chain in business, but i prefer the part of the story that starts with a woman working her way at minimum wage jobs, working her way up that ladder. we spend so much time talking about the top of the ladder,

that we forget that most of us have to climb that ladder rung by rung by rung, and you have done a marvelous job of doing that. one of the things i like to celebrate about her time in the senate is that during the pandemic, we work closely on relief for families and businesses across the south. we fought to improve access to the c.a.r.e.s. funds to keep macy to live. you and i fought together to stop bad actors from taking advantage through fraudulent loans. we bought from ka's efforts to move supply chains from overseas, cut regulations, lowered taxes, and empowered american entrepreneurs to succeed. by the end of your time, he had passed half a dozen bills into law, and delivered $47 billion of relief funds to georgia, to their employees and to the small businesses.

kelly's currier has been nothing short of amazing, proving the american dream can be achieved through hard work and faith with the right leaders in place. kelly loeffler is the right leader to put in place as the administrator at the sba. her proven track record is why we can have great confidence that the sba will return to the gold standard and for your leadership. i will just stop there with my prepared remarks and simply say that, as a small business owner for 15 years, i have great confidence in your ability to do the job. to my fellow members of this committee, i hope that you will hear her out. i will also ask for you to vote for her, because it is time for us to right the ship, to focus on the underserved communities in this country and to make sure that every single zip code in

this nation has strong, powerful small businesses, because without small businesses, we will have higher unemployment and low enthusiasm. thank you for your time. chair ernst: thank you, for that kind introduction. i will note that the vote has started so, if we have members that would like to go and vote now, please do so. ms. loeffler, if you will please rise, we will swear u.n.. ms. loeffler, raise your right hand. this is the tradition of the committee to swear in our nominees. we are suffering in today kelly loeffler to be administrator of the sba. please answer the following questions -- do you celebrate swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god? should you be confirmed as administrator, are you willing to appear and testify before any duly cosseted a committee of

congress when requested to do so? are you willing to provide such information as requested by any such committee? thank you. you may go ahead and take your seat, ms. loeffler, and you are now recognized for five minutes to provide your opening statement to the committee. sen. loeffler: thank you, chair ernst. let me just say, it is a distinct honor to be here today. chair ernst, ranking member markey and members of the committee, it's truly an honor to be before you today as trumka's nominee for the administrator of the small business administration. i'm as humbled to be here today as i was serving alongside many of you in the u.s. senate. and i have appreciated the opportunity to meet with nearly every member of this distinguished committee in recent weeks. i am especially grateful to president trump for entrusting me with the privilege and

responsibility of serving america's 33 million small -- 34 million small businesses. there is no stronger advocate for these job creators than our president. i share his commitment, and if confirmed, will work tirelessly with him to make small business great again. finally, i want to thank my incredible husband, jeff, and my wonderful family and friends who have joined us here today in-person and via broadcast. most importantly, i give all thanks and glory to god. as someone who has spent my life either working in small businesses, starting them, growing them, or helping them succeed -- i know that small business is big business for america. they comprise 99% of all businesses. they create two out of every three new jobs, and employ nearly half of the private sector workforce. they are the opportunity and innovation engines that drive prosperity and growth, and they power the american economy as

much as the american dream. in his first term, president trump made historic strives to empower job creators and job seekers alike, driving small business formation and a blue-collar boom. and through historic tax cuts, trade deals, and deregulation, his agenda created seven million new jobs, delivered historically low poverty, and record employment for minority communities. his first-term accomplishments were so great that following the 2024 election, small business optimism recorded its largest jump since 1980, more than two months before he even took office. small business is in my dna. i grew up the fourth generation in my family's farm in illinois. my wonderful parents, don and lynda, didn't have degrees, but they had faith and grit. they worked relentlessly to sustain our farm and small

trucking company, risking everything to provide for us while navigating a volatile commodity markets and complex regulations, and facing countless day-to-day challenges. it is where my midwestern work ethic was ingrained, working in our soybean fields and waiting tables at local restaurants, preparing me for a lifetime of starting and growing businesses. i became the first and my family to graduate college. he later earned my mba. and became the only cfa ever to serve in congress. since then, i helped grow a startup into a fortune 500 company. for ten years, i co-owned a wnba team. i later launch a financial tech company as the founding ceo and first employee. i recall managing budgets and xl spreadsheets, hiring my first team member, and working with regulators as much as i recall ringing the bell when two of

those companies went public. i strongly support president trump's historic agenda and pandemic response. having spent years as a small business owner, i made it my mission to serve as their voice. i spent much of 2020 delivering relief, traveling to -- traveling the state of georgia, and meeting with small business owners struggling to navigate the ppp program. the loan we help them get did not just save a restaurant but saved the jobs of 3000 georgians, and i'm proud to say they are still in business today. no matter the business, the challenges are consistent, from managing inflation and capital to hiring a skilled workforce and weathering uncertainty. job creators in the last four years have faced rising demands to comply with new rules often compounded with unknown conflict

and consequence. this economy picks winners and losers and denies opportunity to those who dare to dream of a better future. if i have the honor of being confirmed, i will leverage my business experience to champion america's entrepreneurs. we will cut red tape while restoring the accountability and transparency that taxpayers deserve. i will crackdown on fraud with a zero tolerance policy while shifting sba's focus from washington, d.c., back to main street across america, and it confirmed, i will collaborate across government and private sector to deliver efficiency and results. importantly, we will responsibly and urgently meet the challenge of disaster relief. i am committed to serving all who are impacted from north carolina to hawaii. each taxpayer dollar entrusted to the sba should have an

economic multiplier effect, delivering capital to grow manufacturing, strengthen rural communities, create jobs, and develop critical technologies like ai and chips. i believe we must continue to empower entrepreneurs from all walks of life including women and veterans. above all, the sba's founding mission needs urgent restoration . empowering small businesses and growing our economy. that's exactly what the america first agenda does by ending inflation, cutting taxes, slashing regulation, and training in waste, fraud, and abuse in government. in the last four years, small businesses have lost ground, affected by inflation and uncertainty that threatens the very existence of main street. president trump's agenda will restore small business economy, marking a return to made in

america with a golden era of prosperity and growth. at sba, that means meeting today's dynamic challenges alongside america's entrepreneurs, not by sitting in washington or working from home. we will honor their tribes by doing ours. small businesses are the risktakers. job creators, taxpayers, innovators, and the providers of first jobs to former waitresses like me, they represent the best of american free enterprise. like president trump, i have signed the front of a paycheck. we both understand there is nothing small about small business. thank you for your dedication to small business. i welcome your questions, and i would be honored to earn your support to serve as the next administrator of the small business administration. >> thank you for your testimony.

before we move the questions, the committee has received several letters of support for senator ms. loeffler's nomination. america's small business development centers, independent community bankers of america, independent women's forum, job creators network, national association of development companies, national retail federation, small business investor alliance, small business and entrepreneurship counsel, national association of government guaranteed funders, international franchise association, national restaurant association, georgia public policy foundation, governor of georgia brian kemp, association of women's business centers, economic and community development institute, u.s. black chambers incorporated in the national small business administration. without objection, so ordered. at this time, we will go ahead

and move on the questions. i now recognize myself for five minutes of questions. senator loeffler, in our conversation, you made it clear that given your time in the senate, you understand the role of congress. you denoted given your business experiences give u.s. as your board and the taxpayers as your shareholders with the responsibility to ensure the sba moves forward in the right direction. unfortunately, the biden administration did not share this view. i repeatedly requested information, and those requests work ignored. can you commit to provide this committee with the documents and information it requests in a timely manner? ms. loeffler: absolutely. i look forward to a partnership. sen. ernst: i think that is

essential to a good partnership between congress, the small business administration, and our constituencies. that is who we serve. last year, sba failed to alert or provide the committee with information before the agency ran out of funding for its disaster assistance program. can you commit to more transparent, timely, and forthright dialogue between the sba and this committee should you become administrator? ms. loeffler: absolutely. chair ernst: thank you. we know it is extremely important to me that we right size the sba and get it on a clear course to deliver its mission. within your first 100 days as administrator, what would be your primary goals and objectives to get the sba back

on track? ms. loeffler: thank you for the question. i, too, enjoyed the time we were able to spend together with you and your staff. i think your leadership of this committee is critical and i appreciate the work you have done today. i look forward to working with this entire committee toward the aims of restoring the small business committee and small business administration to serving small businesses and supporting economic growth in this country. that is our northstar. in order to do that, we must have accountability at this agency. it is in dire need of restoration, and that starts with shoring up the financial situation. the fact that this agency has not been able to pass an audit for 4 years is a disgrace. we must make sure we are accountable to taxpayers, that our programs are solvent, and working toward the aims of serving small businesses, so obviously, we are going to get

our financial house in order and do it quickly, and we will do that in addition to making sure the programs are working for small businesses and taxpayers. we know that the core loan program is in need of oversight in terms of understanding the rising delinquencies and defaults. we will take a hard look at that. we will make sure that disaster funds are resourced and accounted for and that there are no more situations where americans in a crisis are faced with months of not having disaster relief. finally, we are certainly going to get this agency back to work. i am grateful for president trump's rapid action through his executive order to return to work. we will make sure we have people committed to the success of small businesses, that have the heart for small business, also have that sense of accountability to taxpayers. chair ernst: thank you so much

for that. as you talk about the audit, we know that we need transparency within the small business administration, and hearing that is music to my ears. i began my elected career representing the taxpayers of montgomery county as their county auditor, and i am just excited to know that you will follow through on that commitment. as you know, i also serve as the chair of the senate does caucus -- the senate doge caucus and we have a mandate an opportunity to expose multimillion dollar boondoggles. sta is not -- sba is not immune to this which provides an extraordinary opportunity to straight line and disrupt the bureaucracies and their status quo. will you commit to examining programs to root out fraudulent actors?

ms. loeffler: this is critical because we are over 4 years passed covid. the last administration took a pass on rooting out fraud in these programs. i appreciate your work and legislation, continuing covid collections to make sure we go after those that want to defraud the government. as i said, we will have a zero tolerance policy toward fraud but also toward waste and abuse, and we will do that out within the agency and those who seek to exploit the programs. chair ernst: very good. thank you. at this time, i will turn the gavel over to senator curtis while i go vote, and i will recognize ranking member markey for your questions. senator markey: monday night, president trump's budget office issued a memo that directed agencies to cut off all federal spending outside of payments to

individuals. the trump administration issued this order even though the spending was authorized and appropriate by congress and intended to benefit the american people. my first question is very simple . do you believe that this action by the president to cut off federal funding authorized and appropriated by congress was lawful? ms. loeffler: i disagree with the premise of your question because the money was certainly with regard to the agency's discretionary in many cases, but i fully agree with president trump's decision to stop wasteful spending. it resulted in a landslide victory that many americans were waiting for relief against excessive government spending -- sen. markey: he did not freeze programs that had waste, fraud, and abuse. he froze all programs. do you think that is lawful?

ms. loeffler: with all due respect, i completely disagree. not all program -- not all programs work -- not all programs were frozen at all. he specifically called out illegal d.e.i. programs, programs that effectively linked to the green new deal that picks winners and losers. i think americans breathed a sigh of relief when they saw the waste, fraud, and abuse is going to get out of this government -- sen. markey: wait a minute, no, no, no, the next day, omb did put out a statement saying funds for small businesses are not subject to the order. he did not single them out from the program initially. they had to be clarified, and that is good for small businesses, but only for now. this uncertainty placed over small businesses across the country could return at any moment. this is a dangerous precedent

that the president set -- ms. loeffler: if i could add, there was no pause in assistance. sen. markey: i hope that you would hold president trump to upholding the law. if president trump asked you to do anything illegal or unconstitutional in your role as sba administrator, would you say no? ms. loeffler: the president is not going to ask me to do that. i'm not going to create a hypothetical situation here. i will faithfully uphold the law, and president trump is fighting for americans -- sen. markey: the president has already acted illegally twice in the last five days. he fired the inspectors general. that was illegal. he froze all funding on monday night. that was also against the law. it is not as though he will not ask you to do something illegal and unconstitutional. he has been doing it all week and this is the first week.

since its creation in -- ms. loeffler: if i could say on the record that these were not illegal actions. it was in his right to select members of the executive branch, and he certainly is in the right to stop wasteful spending -- sen. markey: the president violated the statute by firing the inspector general. it requires 30 days' notice. he does not have the ability to be the king. ms. loeffler: senator, i believe there is precedent. sen. markey: let me move on to sbir, which has had staggering results across the country. massachusetts has seen 26,000 sbir and sti are, $9 billion in funding, and i strongly believe in these programs and their potential for supercharging our

economy, as those programs have in massachusetts and states across the country. when i met with you, you mentioned that sbir should be avoided, and i agree wholeheartedly that merit drives innovation. will you commit to working with me and the committee to ensuring that any sbir, sbtr authorization effort maintains a merit-based process and does not limit? ms. loeffler: absolutely. i look forward to working with you and i know we have a lot of common ground and support small businesses, particularly the sbir. for those watching, it is the small business research innovation program that you do -- that allows the united states to be at the forefront of technological, biomedical, and other types of national security

technology, research, and innovation. it is so important for this country. thank you. senator curtis: thank you. i know yield five minutes to myself. when you came into my office, i appreciated the connection we made about small businesses. we can identify with statistics in our state. over half of all employees from the state are small businesses, and it is such an important part of our economy. yet, they often lack the resources and do not have some of the advantages of larger businesses. one thing we discussed when you were in my office was how to best recover the resources of your administration with small businesses in our state.

i think as part of that, not just you coming out, but helping educate small businesses about what is available to them and how they can access them. ms. loeffler: i'm excited about visiting with you and excited to have you in the senate and i appreciated meeting with you and your staff in the basement of the office. i think it is a great way to start. senator: like a small business. my father is a small business owner. my grandfather is a small business owner. my daughters and children have small businesses. one of the things i don't think america realizes is that most of these small businesses struggle just to get the lights on. they don't have a lot of money to do a lot of things other people do. part of that is they don't have the money for lawyers and attorneys to deal with excessive

regulations. as a result, i believe regulations are disproportionately hard on small businesses. share with me for a minute what you can do to lighten this burden and how do we make sure in washington we are not the biggest problem to small businesses. ms. loeffler: thank you for recognizing that vital issue to america's 34 million small businesses. many of them have fewer than nine employees. in answering your question, i would like to speak to small businesses in saying you have someone that if confirmed will understand what it is like to have a small business, to worry about meeting payroll, let alone paying the bills for the small business, particularly with setbacks that small businesses have had in the last four years, losing about 10% of top line revenue while the entire cost increase by 20% due to inflation. the sba can be a way of helping

small businesses come back what has been a tough four years. if we deploy resources appropriately and prudently so that small businesses who need it most have access to that, be it through capital, be it through technical assistance, or other ways of supporting entrepreneurship in this country, which is so vital to our advancement on a global stage but also within our local communities. these are the businesses that sponsor the softball teams. these are the businesses that provide that first job, and they are the ones that never work from home. they show up. they trot out their commitments to their customers, and that is exactly what we will do with the sba. senator curtis: i appreciate that. we know we will be talking about tariffs in the upcoming days. once again, these are disproportionately hard on small businesses. my office would love to invite you to work with the

administration, the senate as we move into a world where tariffs are reality, to figure out how to help small businesses accommodate better to those tariffs. things like a different runway timeframe when those hit the small businesses. please comment on how we can deal with our small businesses and what might be one of the most difficult challenges. ms. loeffler: thank you. if i have the honor of being confirmed, i will be a voice for small businesses, but let me assure you, there is no bigger small business champion that president trump. he will make sure small business has a voice at the table, but i also think it is important we pay attention to the data and not a hyperbole that happens in the media. president trump was successful in implementing tariffs in his first term but also successful at keeping inflation right around that 2% mark, which is really -- some facts that the

media always overlooks. you have my commitment that small businesses will be considered in all the decisions we make and that is something i know firsthand president trump is their biggest advocate. chair ernst: thank you, senator curtis, for managing the chair. i now recognize senator hirono. senator hirono: as part of my responsibility as a member of this committee as well as other companies on which i serve, i asked questions of all nominees, so i will ask you, have you ever made unwanted requests for sexual favors or committed any physical harassment? ms. loeffler: no, senator. senator hirono: have you ever entered a settlement regarding this conduct? ms. loeffler: no, senator.

senator hirono: you opposed planned parenthood receiving funds for ideological reasons even though other nonprofits work eligible, as later determined by sba's own inspector general. last week, the president fired the ig without proper notice as required by law. it is clear that president trump believes he can do whatever he wants. as administrator, should you be confirmed, would you commit to implementing sba programs in a fair and impartial manner? ms. loeffler: let me first say i hope that we could be able to meet. i have requested several meetings. i keep the people of maui in my prayers. i know they are still struggling through the disaster that occurred about 18 months ago and i hope we can work together. let me correct about the

premises of your question. i objected to the planned parenthood receipt of covid relief loans because they did not fit the parameters of the program -- senator hirono: you do know the ig said to the contrary position, so all i'm asking is if you can be impartial as sba administrator, a very important position, as you said. just an affirmation that you could do so is what i'm asking. ms. loeffler: i will faithfully uphold all of the laws and ethics rules. senator hirono: as i say, with president trump, the laws that he likes on the laws that he likes, and the laws that he does not like, he deems illegal but i will move on. you cosponsored legislation

recognizing the u.s. capitol police officer who was brutally attacked during the january 6 insurrection and who later died. last week, the president issued like it pardons for the january 6 insurrection us, including those responsible for attacking officer sicknick. do you agree with the president's decision to pardon these violent offenders? ms. loeffler: i strongly support the president's pardon. these individuals were denied due process, and it is to let -- it is time to get past political persecution in this country. that is what americans were voting for. senator hirono: they were not denied due process. they were tried and found guilty and some admitted their guilt. let me get to the lahaina wildfire. in 2023, hawaii experienced wildfires that demonstrate --

that devastated the entire community. key to that recovery has been what i described as the federal family of agencies, which includes fema and sba. last week, the president proposed eliminating fema and said, "let the states take care of the tornadoes and hurricanes and all the other things that happen." i have seen the devastation in lahaina and the role the u.s. government has played in recovery. the sba itself provided hundreds of millions of dollars in loans to help lahaina recover. it would be a huge mistake to eliminate sba's role in relief and have states fend for themselves. do you agree with the president's comments that states should be left to fend for themselves during and after natural disasters?

ms. loeffler: i disagree with the premise. the president strongly supports disaster relief. he was on the ground this last week -- senator hirono: -- ms. loeffler: i also mention hawaii in my opening remarks. the president has been clear -- senator hirono: thank you. i'm glad you support the continuing and important role. when you were running for u.s. senator, -- time flies. chair ernst: yes, the senator's time is expired. we can do a second round. thank you, senator hirono. next, i will recognize senator

budd. senator budd: thank you, chair. thank you for leaving your role in private work twice to serve our country. thank you for what you are willing to do. your estate and my state and several others have gone through quite a lot since late september with hurricane helene. in the moments where i was not in western north carolina myself, i was able to look up and see a television and it was you standing there with president trump committee that if he were reelected, he would support. he has lived up to that. he has been back to western north carolina. i believe he is our rebuilder in chief. one of the things we saw was at the sba under president biden. he failed to notify congress in a timely manner about the

completion of the disaster relief fund and did not build -- did not fulfill the reporting requirements along the way. if confirmed, how would you ensure timely and accurate coding to congress regarding account balances and funding needs, and how would you address the transparency failures during the biden administration? ms. loeffler: let me assure you, my prayers are with the people of west and north carolina. the president was there recently and is truly the rebuilder in chief, as are many private enterprises in of own state. my prayers are with the people of georgia and all impacted, but let me say what happened on october 15 when congress was shocked by the news that despite assurances two days earlier, the disaster relief funding had run

out. in business, this would never be tolerated, and we see examples of this everywhere within this agency that i know we are all trying to get our arms around and make a quick correction on. you have my commitment that we will ensure that disaster relief funding is there for hard-working americans when they need it, and i look forward to your feedback on how the response has been so we can strengthen the program, and having transparency said that this committee is routinely apprised of the status of the agency across all vectors that we are serving the american people on. senator budd: thank you for that. the sba disaster loan program was critical in supporting small businesses, as you mentioned in your earlier remarks, and also being there to help communities during crises, but we have recent disasters like hawaii or for us, helene, that revealed a

lot of shortcomings in sba management and oversight. these have led to funding shortfalls like transparency, administrative and efficiency, that hinder the timely disaster response and recovery. people of western north carolina and i know in no georgia as well, felt these failures firsthand when they need to be assistance most. instead, they were left waiting during a time of dire need. will you commit to working with my office and this committee to address these shortcomings to ensure the sba is fully prepared to respond effectively to the needs of businesses in north georgia, western north carolina, and any other states? ms. loeffler: absolutely, you have my commitment. senator budd: thank you. the numbers paint a troubling picture for small businesses. there was a survey from 2023-20 24, the intuit quickbooks small

business index. it says small business employment declined, and it also said that revenue fell on average for those businesses about 12,000 dollars. that is a lot for a small business. that is also the steepest year over year decline since the obama administration in 2015. that same time, the 2020 for goldman sachs 10,000 small business voices survey revealed that 77% of small businesses are deeply concerned about their ability to access the capital that they need to operate reliably. as you know, small businesses make up the bulk of our economy. i think president trump has said small business is big business. i would imagine you think as well this level of decline is unacceptable. how can we expect to see a new golden age for our small businesses? ms. loeffler: absolutely, thank

you for the question. president trump is storing the golden era for all americans by strengthening our economy, leaving our country more safe and secure and ensuring wasteful taxpayer spending is not driving up inflation. inflation is the number one problem not only facing families but small businesses. they are looking at 20% higher costs on at least 10% lower revenues. that is an unsustainable situation for our employers who are putting it all on the line, and small businesses have my commitment that i will have her back. chair ernst: thank you. i now recognize senator schiff for five minutes of questions. senator schiff: thank you. it is an honor to serve on this committee and represent california's 4.2 million small businesses including tech startups, nonprofits, childcare centers, rural businesses, the arts and entertainment industry and women and minority-owned businesses.

the number is growing daily and i'm proud to represent these incredible business owners, innovators, and hard-working employees. i appreciate the conversation we had last week. if it was last week. the weeks have seemed endless these days. as you know very well, horrific wildfires and hide wind that ravaged california over the last month displacing thousands of families -- horrific wildfires and high wind that ravaged california over the last month have displaced thousands of families. we have california will have the full support of the government to rebuild and we must rebuild resiliently. the sba provides disaster assistance for homeowners, renters, nonprofits, and businesses of all sizes affected by natural disasters. i got to see this in operation

visiting the discovery resource centers in los angeles in westwood and in pasadena. sba was on hand in large numbers to help small business owners and homeowners find what resources were available to them to help them recover and rebuild . i do want to echo the concern raised by my colleague, senator markey, about the freeze on federal funding. i know there has been a subsequent statement saying that the freeze order has been lifted, but not the freeze. none of us know how to make heads or tails of that, but what concerns me is that even if we administration says that help to individuals will not be affected by this, if federal funding to sba is curtailed, that means sba cannot make loans to individuals and to small businesses, and at a time when californians

desperately need that help, any delay, any uncertainty will just add additional injury. i have also been distressed by some of the calls to condition the funding to california. california has contributed more to recovery over the other states then any other state of the union -- than any other state. i want to ask you to become commit to something we discussed privately, and that is to ensuring if confirmed in all states, not just california, receive speedy relief for disaster victims and survivors without regard for if their state is red or blue or green or yellow or anything else. are you committed to being -- two in a colorblind political affiliation way making sure sba assistance is speedily provided to small business in every

state? ms. loeffler: i appreciated our time in your office discussing this important matter. obviously, my prayers are with california, but our efforts will be that as well as president trump demonstrated by his first official trip. typically, presidents might fly outside the country. he went to california and immediately appointed a task force. i think the president's demonstrations emphasize his support for relief. i support his leadership to ensure the people of california have the resources they need under president trump's leadership. >> i was grateful the president came to los angeles. i knew if he saw the damage he could not help but be moved, and i'm grateful he was.

i'm concerned about paying assistance to unrelated voter id laws and completely unrelated policy matters. let me also raised the need to not just with respect to disaster in california but elsewhere make sure the sba is proceeding apace with a sense of urgency and efficiently and effectively processing loan applications. i realize the balance is difficult because you have to avoid fraud, and there was massive fraud among some who were applying for covid relief. we do not want to see that repeated. nevertheless, we do not want to see excessive delays either. frankly, i think firing the inspector general harms the ability to ferret out waste and fraud and abuse, but are you committed to doing everything you can to provide speedy attention to sba applications while providing at the same time

safeguards to avoid fraud? ms. loeffler: yes, i am. thank you. senator schiff: thank you, madam chair. mr. chairman. >> thank you. thank you for being willing to do this job. i love serving with you. you were a terrific senator, and i'm so glad you are willing to do this job. it is going to be a great service to our country. let me ask you a question or two to start with about the priorities at sba. i noticed that on day one of his administration, the last president issued an executive order directing federal agencies to adopt a broad racial equity agenda, and that was particularly a focus of sba over the last four years. according to one report, by far the largest program that uses racial preferences in the federal government is the 8a program run by sba.

to be eligible, companies had to show various racial and other characteristics to access funding. a federal court in tennessee ruled unconstitutional. another federal court struck down a similar requirement also administered by sba, the restaurant revitalization fund. president trump has now thankfully on his executive orders that we are going to put a stop to these dei programs. how do you see and lamenting that at sba and will you get sba focused on actually helping small businesses, no matter who the owner is, no matter where they are back in there will be no taping of the scales in order to fit some bureaucrat's agenda? we are going to help those in need, get them stood up -- tell us what you will do about that? ms. loeffler: thank you, and i appreciate the time we spent in your office discussing these matters. president trump's io -- e.o. overturns a divisive program

within the sba. this will allow us to reduce the burden on small businesses, but moreover, i think the best way we can serve small businesses is making sba lending available to all who qualify as opposed to picking winners and losers and pitting americans against one another, so you have my full commitment that we will put that out and make sure it is broadly available to all who qualify. senator hawley: that is a fantastic answer. i'm glad to hear it. while the last administration's small business administration was focused on this dei agenda, but it was not doing was helping people in rural areas of the country like most of my state. in fiscal year 2020 four, sba made 103,000 loans. only 12,000 of those went to rural businesses. that is just over 12%. of sba's $56 billion in capital, only $6 billion went to rural businesses. you want to talk about in equity, there is an imbalance between urban and rural, and if

we have urban centers in my state as well, i'm all for small businesses and urban centers getting what they qualify for, but would you agree with me that our small businesses in rural america are extremely important and often the lifeblood of our communities, like a small town where i grew up. 4000 people rely on small businesses. what would you do to make sure small business in rural america is a priority, that they are getting access to the funds they qualify for and we are doing everything we can to help these businesses revitalize small communities. ms. loeffler: not only do i agree with you, i was raised in a family of somewhat -- of small businesses. my high school had eight small towns. many of my fellow students' parents were small business owners. i saw the hard work that they did, the complexity of dealing with increased federal regulation even back then, and we have to assure that -- ensure that small businesses and rural

communities are getting the support they need. i understand firsthand, and i know that we can do better and we will because this is an area that we can grow in terms of bringing manufacturing, made in america again can come back driven by rural america and paying attention to people that have been forgotten about. that is what president trump does. he remembers the forgotten men and women working so hard in this country to make it work. senator hawley: fantastic. i look forward to working with you. let me ask you about fraud and waste and abuse. i think your answers have been very heartening. you remember -- in fact, you recognized at the height of the pandemic congress enacted the so-called cares act to provide very necessary relief to millions of americans. we also at the same time created a special inspector general to monitor any fraud and abuse in the program. for reasons that continue to elude me, the last administration, the last president when he came to office almost immediately limited the

remit of this special inspector general and then try to effectively defund it, and i we find out hundreds of billions of dollars were wasted or fraudulently dispersed or not properly paid back under these programs. would you agree with me that we need the special inspector general to be properly funded, we need it to be given the jurisdictional authority that it deserves? senator ernst has a bill to make sure it gets that authority. could you talk to us about the need to root out fraud and abuse and corruption? ms. loeffler: absolutely. if i'm confirmed, i look forward to working with this committee to have a higher standard of accountability, to work with more agents -- urgency, to have a zero-tolerance policy with regard to fraud and to making taxpayers whole. we have to get back to that accountability and getting those funds back into taxpayer hands as soon as possible. senator hawley thank you.

now i recognize senator shaheen. senator shaheen: thank you. congratulations and thank you for your willingness to serve. welcome to our family and friends this afternoon. new hampshire, like many other states represented on this committee, has over 99% of its businesses who are small businesses. i certainly agree with the fact that small businesses are the lifeblood of this country. 2/3 of jobs created i would small businesses. my favorite statistic about our small businesses is that they create 16 times more patents than large businesses, so it is critical that we provide assistance to ensure that they thrive. i heard from one of our businesses in new hampshire yesterday that sells agricultural equipment to universities, and they help research feed efficiency to help farmers. he was worried that they halt to

funding this week, the order that freezes spending, caused him to worry about his businesses, so what would you say to that business owner so that they are reassured that their orders will continue? ms. loeffler: i appreciate the chance to meet with you in your office and with your staff and your leadership in this committee as well. certainly the facts are that no individual assistance was or is part of that pause. what the president was rightfully doing is fulfilling his commitment that overwhelmingly americans agree with, which is to root out waste, fraud, and abuse in spending programs, and it is not uncommon for presidents to come in and put a pause on agency discretionary funds that could be contributing to the problems we have with debt, with inflation, and there is no

bigger champion of small businesses that president trump. he has told me personally that small business is big business, and he gets it, so small businesses can be assured that they will have a champion in me as well. having been raised in a small family business, i know the risks that small business operators bear every day, and we will ensure that they have a voice in this administration, and they do. senator she had: i agree it is important to review how businesses are working and we all need to get rid of waste, fraud, and abuse. that does not help anybody. what is unprecedented about the current situation is the uncertainty that it creates for so many of the people who benefit from those programs, and the fact that it is so broad and

far-reaching. i enjoyed the opportunity to meet with you, and thank you for coming in and talking. one of the things we discussed was the importance of our field offices within the sba, and i was pleased that chair ernst mentioned the importance of ensuring that we keep people in the field offices and not reduce those staff members because that's where so much of the help for our small businesses comes from. can you reassure us that you will focus to make sure that the district offices have the support they need and are able to staff up in a way that helps our small businesses? ms. loeffler: absolutely. if confirmed, i can assure you we will put emphasis on the field. we have in the sba 10 regional offices and 68 district offices.

the great aspect is we can be out with our entrepreneurs and with our small businesses not only delivering capital but the technical support and counseling they need to succeed because we know when small businesses have the counseling and mentorship that they need to fill in any gaps, they are more successful. i have heard so many great stories from small businesses. i know you hear them every day, who rely on that extra little help to become successful. i have seen them in our own community. i look forward to visiting your state as well. senator shaheen: good, thank you. we look forward to having you come to new hampshire. one of the most important roles you will have is as a spokesperson for small businesses. i was pleased that president trump continues to maintain the sba administrator as a member of his cabinet. that is very important. one of the issues that i have been proud to work on that i think we need to continue to focus on for our small businesses is helping them

access foreign markets because 99% of markets are outside of the united states, but only about 3% of small and medium-sized businesses do business outside the united states. i was proud to help create the state trade expansion program, the step program. i would hope that again, you would commit to continuing to support that program and helping our small businesses get into those international markets. ms. loeffler: certainly the step program is a very appealing program to understand how we can broaden our work with experts and small businesses can play a tremendous role. i look forward to working with you in the entire committee to see where we can broaden the export program and make this more efficient and to deliver more wins for small businesses. senator shaheen: thank you.

thank you, madam chair. chair ernst: thank you. i recognized senator young for five minutes. senator young: thank you. welcome and congrats once again on this nomination. it is great to see your husband, jeff, and fellow midwesterner behind u.s. well. when my father heard not only that i was elected to the united states senate but that i was going to sit on the small business committee in the u.s., i cannot tell you how excited he was. he perhaps perceived this to be known as the most powerful committee in the u.s. senate. it is not always known for that, but it was the most important committee to my dad because when my dad was getting started in the business, he relied on sba support, loans in particular to help him grow his business, and for him, this was the most important committee.

as we travel around our various states, we see that most jobs these days are actually created not by large enterprises because those come and those go. they are great for ribbon-cutting sometimes, but it is usually the smaller enterprises, and to the extent we can optimize our policies so that more people start these small businesses and grow into larger businesses, that is kind of the key to the economic development, so it is an important post you will be occupying. if confirmed, how are you going to work to keep our small businesses competitive today and resilient tomorrow? kind of an open-ended question. ms. loeffler: thank you. i agree with your dad. i could not be more humbled by this awesome responsibility for small businesses that empower our local communities, that do create two out of every three new jobs in america. that is incredibly powerful. i think there's a number of

things we can do to make small business more competitive. first of all, respecting that small business is about free enterprise and not about the government. we have to look at ourselves and say, what are we doing within this agency to make it harder for small businesses to access capital, to access perhaps government contracting or counseling? are we there for them? a big part of that is getting everyone back into the office, off the golf course, into the office, being aligned with small businesses where they are on main street, so my focus will certainly be on the field activity, making sure every agency is accountable and make sure programs actually work for small business. senator young: i think directionally, you're absolutely on the right course, and that is the most important thing at this point. do you have specific ideas on how sba might be modernized and improved under your leadership? ms. loeffler: certainly i do not

want to get ahead of myself. if i have the honor of being confirmed, i would look at a broad range of efficiency, both cost and technological efficiencies that can be gained. i will be looking at organizational design. i will be looking at skill sets to training that might be needed to deliver our services to increase our response times to small businesses, and we will be metrics-driven. we will have goals and we will report that to this committee. senator young: i think there are members of this committee -- count me in -- that want to help you and the administration be successful. one of the things you might consider doing is prioritizing an incentive for new businesses and small businesses to adopt the latest technologies. i just had a great exchange with a secretary of commerce nominee, and we emphasized the importance

of digital trade, which he strongly supports, unlike unfortunately the previous administration, but i think that is encouraging. related to the small business administration, i found that many hoosier small businesses rely on digital tools, but the law does not clearly state if these costs qualify within these 7a loan programs, so if someone wants to buy an ai technology, for example, it is unclear if the law will include that, so i have introduced legislation, the small business technological advancement act that would clarify and promote the purpose of digital tools for small businesses. if confirmed, would you be willing to work with me on this topic? ms. loeffler: absolutely if confirmed i would be. ai is at the forefront, both as president trump said a wake-up call to american innovation but

potentially as tools for automating small businesses, making them more efficient, and if it is things like copilots or agents, i would support looking at that as a solution. senator young: thank you. i will be summoning a question for the record on another important topic. about how you intend to address bolstering sba's cyber infrastructure. thank you so much. chair ernst: thank you. senator coons. senator coons: thank you. thank you to your family and those here to support you. as i hope you know, your predecessor in this position in the previous two administrations i have had a particularly strong working relationship with. sb administrator mcmahon came to visit delaware several times. i would agree, my dad said the same thing, this is to senator young's comment. he thought this was the most exciting committee i could possibly be on, and it has been in the past a very productive

committee. my hope is that we will get back to turning out legislation that works with the people, that we will appropriately authorize and review funds and programs. when we had a chance to meet two weeks ago, one of the programs are broader was founded in wilmington, delaware, but i think one of the highest federally appropriated dollar for actual impact programs in history -- there is more than 10,000 volunteers who deliver roughly 4 million hours a year of free business plan consulting. clients return $59 in tax revenue for every dollar appropriated. it needs to be reauthorized. we need to look at it to make sure it is operating well and there is accountability. would you support its reauthorization and work with me to achieve a bipartisan reauthorization if confirmed? ms. loeffler: i thank you for

the time you shared in your office. i was also delighted to hear about your dad's sentiments. i agree. i look forward to working with you to review score, see how it can be made more robust and to evaluating the program and sharing that data with this committee so we have a collaborative approach to ensuring our efforts are making a difference for small businesses. as you know, it has definitely had an impact, and we want to make sure that programs that work are made available to more entrepreneurs. senator coons: i'm hopeful we can work together. a piece of legislation now secretary rubio and i worked on for several congresses was to help make sure that sbir grantees produce commercialized

technology. this would specifically authorize some of the premarket scale of cost through sbir. the sba plays a critical role in coordinating sbir across the whole government. i would be interested in what your priorities would be and if you would help work with us on reauthorization, ensuring that it is not just fund endless research but actually funds alien to the marketplace. ms. loeffler: i think small business innovation research grants are critical to solving some of the challenges america has. the program gives more dry powder and runway to these important technological breakthroughs in the area of bio science technology, ai, drones, critical things for our national defense that would not be possible without the support of research institutions.

i look forward to collaborating with this entire committee on the reauthorization and reviewing the program where it can be strengthened to produce more efficient results and to highlighting some of the winds -- the devon and ashley wi -- the wins to make sure these are powerful returns on investment. senator coons: another thing up and concerned about is the amount of federal contracting money that goes to small businesses. small businesses continue to get a robust piece of the federal pie which exceeds the target, sen. coons: another concern i've expressed is the amount of federal contracting money going to small businesses. small businesses continue to get a robust piece of the total federal pie, 28%, which exceeds the target, but for a smaller and smaller number. i would also be interested in

working with you to make sure we are contracting federally as broadly as possible. i think as literally every colic has referenced, 90% of businesses even in the state of delaware. ms. loeffler: i wanted to acknowledge administrator mcmahon and her great work and i hope we can have the same constructive, collaborative, great relationship working for small businesses. sen. coons: thank you. sen. hawley: did -- >> thank you

for letting me join you. i know you are entering this job at a difficult time in the sense that there's been a lot of questions about fraud that occurred and lost money that occurred during the pandemic and there will be an expectation of accountability as there should be for every tax dollar we spend but at the same time, we know speed -- time is money in business and small businesses particularly during a time of natural disaster or when they are just trying to make ins meet to keep the business open and they need help from the sba, time is also so important. give me some insights into the committee, how you expect to balance that, accountability and speed. ms. loeffler: thank you for

making time to meet your first week in the senate, i enjoyed our conversation and i know that small businesses are championed in ohio based on your work. you asked an important question about accountability of these programs. americans are expecting them to be there and when they are not it creates another layer of uncertainty at a time of devastation or at least uncertainty. if you are forming a small business. certainly what we need to do is have a review of these programs, what is working and not, make sure it is data-driven. that we work holistically across the programs and understand what went wrong, what are the parameters, where have we gone outside the parameters and why, and what work we might do with congress to strengthen these programs so they are accessible. chair ernst has pointed out

rising delinquencies in the seven a loan program, and delayed payments early defaults, these are the types of things that red flags should be up sooner, we need greater accountability in this agency and we can't find out two days later when we had assurances that there was a disaster fund ready for hurricane victims that it is dry. that is an abuse of taxpayer dollars and the program and we need to get to the bottom of it. you have my assurance that if confirmed we will work closely to be a steward of taxpayer dollars, accountable to this committee and i know president trump strongly supports the small business community having the resources they need in an efficient manner that respects taxpayer dollars. the seven a loan program, the bread loans small businesses use to start is meant to operate at

zero subsidy, meaning taxpayers do not fund these programs, they should pay for themselves and operate appropriately and they generally do that but we are in a position right now as this year starts it might not happen so we need to investigate that. sen. husted: one more thought, one of the things i always talk to my team about is customer service, how do we serve people well. are we listening to our customer and what are they telling us and how are we turning the information back into change, enhancements, things like that that we can do. i'm interested in your thoughts on how you intend to do that encourage you to let us know what you learned so we can be better in how we save -- serve those same customers. ms. loeffler: this is an area i look forward to getting into. the field program that sba has

can be incredibly powerful to increasing responsiveness, tailoring programs that are more efficient to deliver resources to small businesses in a way the original formation of the agencies was meant to do. first of all, getting people back to work and in the field, tracking the data and using the feedback loop, looking at how long case times are open, how long is a case open when someone comes with a question? how long did they have to wait on the phone for someone to answer it? when you are a small business person you don't have extra time. i think they want to know there are people at this agency that understand the challenges and complexities they already deal with into the agency doesn't need to be one of them. we want to be part of the solution, not the problem. chair ernst: thank you and welcome to the committee. senator rosen. sen. rosen: thank you.

when you came to the senate, your office was across from mine and i appreciate your service to the nation, you know how this place works and your willingness to serve again. i have also had a great relationship with past administrators under both administrations because small business matters and i look forward to having the same ones with you. we talked about the challenges and resources and being able to get to the people who need it and help them do their dream or idea, really important. chair ernst and i, we talked a little bit about childcare because it's so important in the rising cost of childcare, severe shortage of affordable options. they are really financially squeezing not just nevada families but all over the

country, urban and rural, and lack of access to childcare. it's a problem for small business and parents alike and it creates barriers for people who want to start and grow their business and it makes difficult for small businesses sometimes to retain employees because they struggle to find childcare. yesterday we reintroduced our bill again, the small business childcare investment act, it will increase the availability of affordable, high-quality childcare for working families by allowing nonprofits -- boys and girls club, ymca, your church, mosque, synagogue, whatever it is -- i've even taught -- i have even talked to senior centers that said we could put up health care. this program doesn't cost anything, it just lets down the guardrails so that nonprofits

have the opportunity to apply for the same resources. we look forward to getting it over the finish line as quickly as possible. can you discuss a little bit how you feel about a childcare crisis and how it impacts small business and argue open to spa expanding loans to nonprofits? ms. loeffler: thank you for the question and i appreciated the time in your office to hear about nevada's needs and how we can be part of it. childcare is a relevant issue across every state in the country. small businesses particularly need to provide childcare -- owner or employee, it cuts across every person that touches a small business.

i would like to work with you in the chair to review this potential solution and look at other ways the sba might support parents and children as they work in small businesses. i look forward to those conversations and any input of the rest of the committee as well. sen. rosen: thank you. something we had a great talk about is our veterans and how entrepreneurial they are and how they can take the things they learned and translate the movie come home. nevada is home to over 200,000 veterans and over 23,000 veteran owned small businesses. for the longest time we were without a dedicated veterans outreach center until 2023 win at my urging we pushed the administration to have nevada have its first. our veterans are transitioning service members.

we talked about it with your own dad and how he started his business, a great story. i appreciate you shared that with me. the fy 25 budget, sba requested more for veterans outreach, easing the transition from active duty to civilian life. under your leadership, what do you see is a future for the veterans business outreach center and how it helps? ms. loeffler: i couldn't agree more, our veterans need the support of the sba and if confirmed i would love to work with all of you on how do we better support our veterans. my father learned truck driving skills in the air national guard that resulted in her small trucking business. veterans have untapped potential we can help unleash and i will commit to working with this committee and across the administration with secretary collins to ensure our veterans

have the resources they so deserve. ms. loeffler: i will submit the rest of my questions for the record, they are mostly on workforce development and we had a good chance to talk about how we train people where they are to give them the skills they need to stay in their communities and build back neighborhoods and diners and all of that wherever they are and how important it is. i look forward to hearing back from you and working with you. ms. loeffler: thank you, senator rosen. chair ernst: thank you. we will start a second round of questions, i think the ranking member has another question. sen. markey: one of the benefits of being ranking member is all the others leave and we get escort questions. [laughter] earlier one of the republican senators asked about dei

executive orders and mentioned section 8a for disadvantaged small businesses and it was deemed unconstitutional. it was not deemed unconstitutional. the application process had to change but the program continues. with that clarification, earlier you said president trump's executive order overturned dei sba programs. again, 8a for socially and economically disadvantaged small businesses, it is codified. in your opinion, does an executive order overturn a law put on the books by this committee on a bipartisan basis? ms. loeffler: ranking member

markey, thank you for the question. i think the important thing to note here is i support president trump's executive order, overturning dei programs -- i have committed to following the law. we will work with the administration to ensure all americans have access to the programs that exist in the small business administration under the law and will continue to keep this committee updated as to modifications as we go. sen. markey: do you believe the law does an fact, an executive order doesn't fact overturn a law passed by the house and senate and signed by a president? is that your conclusion that president trump is right and all dei programs are now removed? ms. loeffler: i've committed to

you i will uphold the law in all the programs and we will communicate any changes to the programs to this committee. sen. markey: you believe you are authorized to change the dei programs because of executive order even though it is statutorily mandated those programs are on the books? ms. loeffler: a support president trump's executive orders and we will ensure we follow the law and administration of the sba. sen. markey: the small business administration administers a number of programs that aim to level the playing field for entrepreneurs from underserved communities that have faced historical barriers. the programs this committee has put on the books include the service disabled veterans own, women's centers and 8a business development programs for the disadvantaged. these programs and many like them are codified into statute.

recent actions by president trump seek to resend these so-called dei initiatives. as administrator, president trump's order would also review to terminate diversity, equity, inclusion and accessibility positions at sba. in light of that, we have to remember executive orders cannot change or resend congressional mandates. we are the article one branch of government. when the redcoats were going down massachusetts avenue, the men and women came up from lexington and concord and saying no taxation without representation.

they could pick a president or prime minister but they were going to have a house and senate, that's what they were fighting for. trump may think he can overturn what we do here but that's what the revelers -- revolution was about. you may say you are going to support him and he's the law but he is not. i just want to continue this conversation with you because i think there has to be an understanding that supporting women-owned businesses -- i believe supporting -- do you believe supporting women-owned businesses is dei? ms. loeffler: i never said that. i was a woman owned business, majority minority on an own business for a decade, i understand the importance of it. having a well-functioning agency is the best way to ensure we have more access to these programs by i diverse range of

communities without picking winners and losers. that's what the american people want and why president trump in a landslide, the american people want fairness and merit brought back. we discussed this in your office, that's what this country is about. sen. markey: you understand it's congress that has to charges the loss? ms. loeffler: yes, senator, i will uphold the law. chair ernst: thank you. i will make some comments to this discussion as well. we know there are many programs that are codified, they are in law and you will uphold the law and i appreciate that answer. unfortunately what we saw during the biden administration was through a lot of supplemental movement from the administration, they did put into place different dei programs within the sba, so the executive order is likely to

immediately rollback the biden era dei mandates that were supplemental, those that are not legally binding. yes, i anticipate you will follow the law, should you be confirmed and you are well on your way. again, there are many things president biden took within his own prerogative within the sba that was not codified nor approved by this committee. we will ensure you follow the law. certainly we can rollback the things that were unilaterally done by president biden in the sba. i will recognize senator cantwell for five minutes. sen. cantwell: thank you.

congratulations for taking over the chairmanship. i look forward really, such big integration between small businesses in the state of washington and our military. really great lessons i think could be applied broader other areas of the government and great to see our new ranking member, senator markey. it's not that long ago when senator kerry was the chairman of the committee and he brought a lot of energy to the sbir and technology startup issues that were a big part of the discussion at that time. i look forward to working with both of you on the committee. it's good to see my former colleague again, congratulations on your nomination. we had a chance to talk briefly in the office. i want to bring up a couple of things. we had a question at the

commerce hearing, do you support the minority business development authority? ms. loeffler: thank you for your time in your office, and enjoyed our conversation. certainly i appreciate that program the congress department -- commerce department runs an icy potential for collaboration with sba. i support working across the administration to ensure resources are utilized and we don't have overlap in our programs and they are serving americans who need those services the most. sen. cantwell: thank you. will you work with me to ensure the department of agriculture needs the same small business set-aside challenge that dod has so successfully done but in this case the department of agriculture giving small mills the access they need. will you work with me to make sure those important sba issues are addressed at the department of agriculture? ms. loeffler: i appreciate our

conversation about your timber business. i think if confirmed, i would look forward to working with secretary rawlins to ensure we have a collaborative relationship. i understand there was previously an mou with the department of agriculture and i hope we can collaborate to help small businesses as well. sen. cantwell: thank you. let's just carry that on. one of the reasons we want this infrastructure is if you think about reducing the fuel we need, and some of the ideas like cost laminated timber, you need to have mills in those regions. to get the mills you have to have the agreement you will get them some supply. now look at the disaster we just saw in california and we realized the situation is we already knew this in the northwest. we've had our share of dramatic fires.

there was a border crossing issue, a town was flooded, and another town, fire wiped through the town. over 300,000 acres burned in wildfires in my state just in 2024. how do we make sure we keep politics, i feel like some much politics happened on federal funding in the last few years. how do we keep politics out of it and disagreements and make sure there was a case on the malden fire, it was delayed for months, about a disagreement between the president then and our governor and it took a new administration -- cathy mcmorris rodgers and i were working together for these funds. how will you help us deliver disaster systems without the noise we are hearing? ms. loeffler: i appreciate the

question. certainly your state has had your share of disaster, you have the bomb cyclone in november and ongoing recovery. i think americans were stunned by the politicization of the hurricane response under fema where they refused to go to homes with trump signs in the front yards. americans want to see an end to that. we should not be politicizing our disaster response. i think that's something we have to restore confidence in and the sba will be working to restore integrity to relief efforts. sen. cantwell: i don't know if the chair has had this issue but probably, there are disasters everywhere, and that is the debate about how the funding model works and taking care of communities who have experienced disasters. urban communities because they

have density are taken better care of, and rural communities, i'm not sure we can sustain the border and it gets close down and then all the traffic has to go down i-5. we had an economy that was devastated and people were like we are not going to help you because you don't have the same ratio. i'm like it is a juggernaut of an economy, just because it doesn't have density doesn't mean it's not a problem. the gao concluded sba needs to recognize rural communities extents disasters differently -- not really differently, just not in the same density. as we consider how to make loans for rural communities more viable, do you think businesses and homeowners, we want them to return to these areas, we don't want them to see community, in

our case these are communities that sit on close proximity to the cascades but are a huge tourism economy for the state so they have a big footprint. what are your thoughts on how we implement the change working with colleagues to get a better recognition of the economic impact that disadvantages rural communities? ms. loeffler: i would love to work with you on that, visit your state and understand the dynamics. i grew up in a rural community and i understand you need characteristics of delivering relief. we lived through tornadoes and hail storms and other devastating efforts of recovery together as a community and often the tv cameras were not there, you were recovering on your own. how can we better ensure disaster relief isn't based on any politics or media profile but where relief is sorely

needed to prop up and strengthen economic stability of the tax base of the community, the culture, the people, the generations that live there and the industry and supports and i'd love to work with you. sen. cantwell: sorry to go on, those are important issues and i appreciate the opportunity to ask them and look forward to working on these with you. chair ernst: thank you senator cantwell and i would enjoy working with you on that as well. the state of iowa, we've had challenges with disaster recovery and the cost to benefit ratio. we have struggled with this for a very long time. because of rural areas and just for the audience if i can take the chairs prerogative and share with you, we have many disasters, flooding in particular in iowa, where many restaurants in downtown rural communities are destroyed, but

the cost to benefit ratio is never high enough for the federal government to provide that level of assistance. however, if a restaurant on an eastern or western coast, along the ocean, is destroyed, of course the cost to benefit ratio will be higher, the cost of the restaurant is higher. they are the ones likely to receive disaster assistance but not those of us in the midwest. a home of one size in iowa is much cheaper than a home on the coast but it is still someone's home. it is still someone's business. i think we have a lot of work to do and i would be happy to partner with you. sen. cantwell: i think what a lot of people don't realize is it is an economy that generates a lot of revenue for your state. it could be an agriculture or tourism economy, it could be a

community that offer something different but if you take that out of the middle of your state or where ever it is because the ratio hasn't been addressed correctly, we are losing out on the big picture economics. we have to get people to realize that relationship to the state overall should somehow be considered in the ratio. chair ernst: absolutely and thank you for that input. a number of issues were addressed today during this really productive hearing and thank you for being here and i want to thank president trump for your nomination to the small business administration. i look forward to working with you upon your confirmation into this position and because there are no other questions, i again want to thank you for your willingness to serve and to be here today and for your family's support of you in this position.

we are going to leave the record open until close of business tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. thursday, january 30, from members to submit questions for the record. we will keep the record open for two weeks to edit statements and submit letters and any without objection, so ordered. senator loffler, we would appreciate your prompt response to any additional questions that are submitted. with that the committee on small business and entrepreneurship stands adjourn. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations]

>> acting as unregistered foreign agent. federal judge sidney addressed the former senator telling him somewhere along the way you became, i'm sorry to say corrupt politician. she continued noting that after mr. menendez now 71 year's old cheerfully pleaded for leniency, the judge told him i don't know what led you to this, greed was part of it. i don't know. you'll have to the try to figure that out yourself. mr. menendez was first elected to the u.s. house in 1992 before becoming a u.s. senator in 2006. >> c-span's washington journal a live forum involving you to discuss latest issues in government, politics and public policy from washington, d.c. and

across the country and coming up thursday morning, bobby will discuss administration rescinding of federal aid freeze and brian, will review top healthcare priorities for the trump administration. c-span's washington journal, join in the conversation live at 7:00 eastern thursday morning on c-span, c-span now free mobile app. coming up live on thursday on c-span at 10:00 a.m. eastern president trump's nominee for director of national intelligence tulsi gabbard will be on capitol hill to take questions for nomination. on c-span2 at 10:00 a.m. eastern, robert f. kennedy jr. will be back on capitol hill testifying at second confirmation hearing. mr. kennedy who is president trump's pick to head human and health department. u.s. senate returns to session and will continue work on more

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