[applause]

[inaudible] chair crapo: good morning. this hearing will come to order. i thank my colleagues and mr. kennedy for being here today. mr. kennedy, congratulations on your nomination. throughout this process, mr. kennedy, you have been accessible to members and staff on both sides of the aisle and have demonstrated strong commitment to fulfilling the responsibilities of this role. the department of health and human services overseas and nation's largest health care programs, providing coverage for nearly two in every five americans, the medicare,

medicaid and chip among other initiatives presents challenges, especially in the face of a rapidly aging population, stubbornly high cost and persistent barriers to access. however, this also provides us the opportunity to deliver bold, transformative solutions. as a committee, we share a commitment to advancing common sense, bipartisan policies that improve the delivery of health care in this country. this committee has worked to realign incentives and the prescription drugs by chain, to enhance access in rural communities, to expand the availability of telehealth and improve the broken clinician payment structure. across these and other issues i look forward to working with the administration to continue pursuing meaningful reforms that serve the american people more effectively and more efficiently. too often, patients encounter a

health-care system that is disjointed and is a dysfunctional maze. complex and bureaucratic sheets and ladders have become the norm. meanwhile, even as health-care spending climbs, out comes across a range of conditions continue to decline. mr. kennedy, if confirmed, you will have the opportunity to chart a new and better course for the federal approach to tackling both drivers and the consequences of our ailing health care system. your commitment to combating chronic conditions that drive health care costs will be critical to our success. prioritizing disease prevention and addressing the factors that fuel conditions such as diabetes, cardiovascular disease, metabolic disease, alzheimer's disease, copd and cancer will save lives, reduce costs and build a healthier, stronger country.

private-sector breakthroughs from groundbreaking cancer medications to gene therapies also offer hope of misguided government initiatives and market volatility risk eroding american leadership in lifesaving r&d. your advocacy for health care transparency has the potential to empower consumers across the country, promoting competition to enhance quality while cutting excessive spending from patients and for taxpayers. today's hearing will provide a forum to hear more about your vision, particularly for the federal programs you represent a voice for an inspiring coalition of americans who are deeply committed to improving the health and well-being of our nation. regardless of political party, everyone in this room shares a common recognition that our current system has fallen short.

as well as a common desire to make our country healthier. i look forward to today's conversation as well as your testimony, mr. kennedy, and now i recognized senator wyden for his opening remarks. senator wyden: the question before the finance committee this morning of whether robert f kennedy should be trusted with the health and well-being of the american people. committee staff have examined thousands of pages of statements, books and podcast transcripts in a review of his record. the receipts show that mr. kennedy has embraced conspiracy theories, quacks, charlatans, especially when it comes to the safety and efficacy of vaccines. he has made it his life's work to sow doubt and discourage

parents from getting their kids lifesaving vaccines. it has been lucrative for him and put him on the verge of immense power. this is the profile of someone who chases money and influence wherever they lead, even if that may mean the tragic deaths of children and other vulnerable people. mr. kennedy is fond of saying he is not making recommendations about whether parents should vaccinate their children. he just asking questions and giving people choices. it is a slippery tactic to dive any real responsibility for his words and actions, and it is in my view absurd come in from somebody who is trying to win confirmation for a job that is entirely about making

recommendations. these recommendations are going to have life or death consequences for the american people. mr. kennedy, if you are confirmed, the recommendations determine which vaccines senior citizens get for free through medicare. your recommendation will determine which vaccines are given to millions of kids. peddling these anti-vaccine conspiracy theories which are cheap health officer isn't going to endanger the lives of kids and seniors across the nation. just look at what happened when mr. kennedy inserted himself into an anti-vaccination crisis in the island nation of samoa. he traveled there himself to push his views and poor fuel on the fire of a measles outbreak that began due to low vaccination rates.

in the end, 83 samoans died. mostly kids, from a disease that is easily preventable. americans cannot afford to import this experiment to our great nation. on other health care matters from abortion to universal health care mr. kennedy has changed views so often it is nearly impossible to know where he stands on so many of the basic issues. in a gob smacking statement of irresponsibility, in november of 2023, mr. kennedy said that he wanted to pause infectious disease research for eight years. mr. kennedy has indicated he is open to restricting access to the abortion medication meta

prestone which remains a primary target of the republican crusade against reproductive freedom. i took this on back in 1990. science was clear then and is even clearer today. it is safe. the only reason it was under question in 2025 is because people with a political agenda have been out lying about it. women deserve to know if mr. kennedy will abuse his power as our country's cheap health officer to essentially implement a national abortion ban by restricting access to the safe and legal medication. meanwhile as the trump budget office threw the medicaid program into chaos yesterday, republicans in congress are proposing deep cuts to the program that will rip away health care care for millions of americans who count on this vital lifeline. cuts to medicaid of this magnitude are going to jack up

the cost of health insurance and will shutter nursing homes and rural hospitals, deprive seniors and americans with disabilities of home-based care. that approach amounts to handing over our nations health assistance to for-profit insurance companies who has made a fortune delaying and denying care. mr. kennedy has virtually no knowledge or experience in handling these issues. it leaves them unprepared to take on a crisis like the nation witnessed yesterday when the trump budget office shut down the federal medicaid payment portal. after a careful review of robert f. kennedy, jr.'s statements, actions and views, materials that i have reviewed personally and closely, i've reached the conclusion that he should not be entrusted with the health and well-being of the american people. when he has taken every side of every issue, how can this

committee and the american people believe he has anything to say? let me close by saying i believe more strongly than ever and i have specialized in health care my time in public service that we are at a turning point with regard to health care in america. there is one word to describe american's feelings toward the health care system it is disillusioned. at every single turn, people feel like they are rolling loaded dice when they try to get health care. americans are justifiably angry and fed up and tired of a system that puts profits of a patients. instead of debating meaningful ways to improve american health care, now the committee is being forced to relitigate and settle science about vaccines and whether or not the federal government should help americans get affordable health care. i know where democrats on this finance committee stand when it comes to an agenda to lower

costs and improve care. and i must say i cannot say the same about the nominee sitting in front of me, and let me acknowledge, finally mr. chairman, terry mills from portland, oregon who is here to represent nurses for america and i would like to enter a statement from her organization into the record at this time. chair crapo: without objection. >> thank you, ranking member widen. mr. kennedy khamenei fume emmons -- moment -- in a few moments you will be given the opportunity to respond to other attacks and questioned the members of this committee have. i would say that with regard to the attack on medicaid that we just heard, that was a false attack, it has been proven false overnight. the medicaid portal is operating efficiently today and was never intended to be shut down. sen. wyden: with a gentleman yield since he is mentioned by name? there was asa mcniff --

significant out of time yesterday where there was bedlam across the country over the status of the medicaid portals. i hope it is being corrected but there were problems all through the day. >> there certainly were attacks yesterday, but the problem has been clarified in the medicaid portal is fully operational as we speak. mr. kennedy, before i turn the time over to you to share your opening statement, i would like to give you a brief introduction. the son of senator robert f kennedy and nephew of president john f. kennedy, robert kennedy jr. has been an advocate for consumers since 1985. after graduating from harvard university, mr. kennedy study at the london school of economics and received his law degree from the university of virginia law school and a masters degree in environmental law from pace university. he has founded two advocacy groups and has spent the last 40 years working to restore and protect children's health.

he was a former independent candidate in the 2024 presidential election and president trump nominated him this year to be in november of 2024 to be the hhs secretary. in announcing his nomination, president trump stated mr. kennedy will restore these agencies to the traditions of gold standard scientific research and beacons of transparency and end the chronic disease epidemic and make america great and healthy again. before you give your opening statement mr. kennedy, i have four obligatory question that we ask all nominees before this committee. first, is there anything that you are aware of in your background that might present a conflict of interest with the duties of the office to which you have been nominated?

mr. kennedy: no, mr. chairman. chair crapo: do you know of any reason personal or otherwise that would in any way prevent you from fully and honorably discharging the responsibilities of the office to which you have been nominated? mr. kennedy: no i do not. chair crapo: do you agree without reservation to respond to any reasonable summons to appear and testify before any duly constituted committee of congress if you are confirmed? mr. kennedy: chair crapo: yes i do. chair crapo:and finally do you commit to providing a prompt response in writing to any questions addressed to you by any senator of this committee? mr. kennedy: yes i do. chair crapo: thank you mr. kennedy and before you begin if you would like to you may introduce your wife and children. mr. kennedy: yes. my wife is here. my daughter kitt kennedy, my son, his wife, amaryllis box kennedy and my nephew jackson heinz is here, too.

chair crapo: we welcome you all. mr. kennedy: thank you mr. chairman. chairman crapo, ranking member wyden and members of this distinguished committee, i am humbled to be sitting here today as president trump's nominee to oversee the u.s. department of health and human services. i want to thank president trump for entrusting me to deliver on his promise to make america healthy again. i also want to thank cheryl and get and bobby and all of my other children who are here today and all of the many members of my large extended family for the love that they have so generously shared. ours has always been a family that has been involved in public service, and i look forward to continuing that tradition. my journey into the issue of health began with my career as an environmental attorney,

working with hunters and fishermen and mothers in a small town in the hudson valley. i learned very early on that human health and environmental injuries are intertwined. the same chemicals that kill fish make people sick also. today, americans overall health is in grievous condition. over 70% of adults and one third of children are overweight or obese. diabetes is 10 times more prevalent than it was in the 1960's cancer among young people is rising by 1% or 2% a year. autoimmune diseases, neurodevelopmental disorders, alzheimer's, asthma, adhd, depression, addiction, and a host of other physical and mental health conditions are all on the rise, some of them exponentially. the united states has worse

health than any other developed nation, yet we spend more on health care, at least double and in some cases triple as other countries. last year we spent $4.8 trillion, not counting the indirect cost of missed work. that is almost 1/5 of gdp. it is tantamount to a 20% tax on income on the entire economy. no wonder america has trouble competing with countries that pay one third of what we do for health and have better outcomes and healthier workforce. and i don't want to make this too much about money. it is the human tragedy that loops us to care. president trump has promised to restore america's global strength and to restore the american dream, but he understands that we can't be a strong nation when our people are so sick. a healthy person has a thousand dreams. a sick person has only one.

today over our -- half of their countrymen and women are chronically ill. when i met with president trump last summer i discovered that he has more than just concerns for this tragic situation, but genuine care. president trump is committed to restoring the american dream and 77 million americans delivered a mandate to him to do just that. due in part to the embrace and innovation of the make america healthy again movement. this movement led largely by moms from every state, and you can see many of them behind us today, and in the hallways and the lobbies, is one of the most transcendent and powerful movements i've ever seen. i promise president trump that if confirmed i will do everything in my power to put the health of americans back on track. -greatly heartened to discover

the deep level of care among members of this committee to both democrats and republicans. i came away from our conversations confident that we could put aside our divisions for the sake of a healthier america. for a long time, the nation has been locked in a divisive health care debate about who pays. on health care costs reach 20%, there are no good options, only bad ones. shifting the burden around between government, corporations , insurers and providers and families is like rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. our country will sink beneath a seed of desperation, and debt if we don't change the course and ask why our health care costs are so high in the first place. the obvious answer is chronic disease. the cdc says 90% of health care spending goes toward managing chronic disease.

which hits lower income americans the hardest. the objective is to make all of our people healthy again. there is no single culprit in chronic disease, much as i have criticized certain industries and agencies. president trump and i understand that most of their scientists and experts genuinely care about american health. therefore, we will bring together all stakeholders in pursuit of this unifying goal. before i conclude i want to make sure the committee is clear about a few things. news reports have claimed that i am anti-vaccine or anti-industry. i am neither. [shouting] [applause] chair crapo: we will have order.

please proceed, mr. kennedy. mr. kennedy: i am pro safety, i worked for years to raise awareness about the mercury and toxic chemicals in fish and nobody called me anti-fish. and i believe that vaccines played a critical role in health care. all of my kids are vaccinated, i've written many books on vaccines, my first in 2014. the first line of it is i am not anti-vaccine and last line is i am not anti-vaccine. nor am i the enemy of food producers. american farms are the bedrock of our culture, our politics, our national security. i was a 4h kid and i spent my summer working on ranches. i want to work with our farmers and food producers to remove burdensome regulations and unleash american ingenuity.

i simply cannot succeed without a full partnership of american farmers. in my advocacy, i've often disturb the status quo. by asking uncomfortable questions. well, i'm not going to apologize for that. we have massive problems in this country that we must face honestly. and the first thing i've done every morning for the past 20 years is to get on my knees and pray to god that he would put me in a position to end the chronic disease epidemic and to help america's children. that's why i'm so grateful to president trump for the opportunity to sit before him today and seek your support and partnership in this endeavor. i will conclude with a promise to members of this committee, to the president, and to all the

tens of millions of parents across america, especially the moms who pulled this issue to center stage. should i be so privileged as to be confirmed, we will make sure our tax dollars for healthy food. we will scrutinize the chemical additives in our food supply. we will remove financial conflicts of interest from our agencies. we will create an honest, unbiased gold standard science at hhs accountable to the president, to congress and to the american people. we will reverse the chronic disease epidemic and put the nation back on the road to good health. thank you. chair crapo: thank you, mr. kennedy. mr. kennedy, i will begin, each of us have five minutes to ask you questions and then at the conclusion of the hearing if there are further questions, there will be an opportunity for those questions to be submitted to you and i ask that you respond to them promptly.

mr. kennedy, you have emphasized the importance of nutrition in preventing and managing chronic disease, improving health outcomes and reducing health costs. i share your interest in the relationship between our diet and our well-being. and if confirmed i look forward to partnering with you on those efforts. would you share with the committee why you are passionate about the nutrition-oriented disease prevention and what you have learned? mr. kennedy: yes, mr. chairman. i have 11 brothers and sisters. i have dozens of first cousins. i was raised in a timer we did not have a chronic disease epidemic. 2% of american kids had president -- chronic disease. today, 66% have chronic disease. we spend zero on chronic disease during the kennedy administration. today, we spent $4.3 trillion a year.

with 77% of our kids not qualifying for military service. when i was a kid, the typical pediatrician would see one case of diabetes in his or her lifetime. 40 or 50 year career. one out of every three kids today who walks through his or her office door is diabetic or prediabetic and the most recent data from nih is 38% of teenagers are diabetic or prediabetic. autism rates have gone from one in 10,000 to one in 1500 depending on what studies you look at. in my generation today, 70-year-old men, one in 34 in our kids generation. we've seen this explosion of autoimmune disease, of allergic diseases. this is not just an economic issue, it is not just a national security issue, it is a spiritual issue and a moral issue.

we cannot do our role as an exemplary nation, as a moral authority around the world when we are writing off an entire generation of kids. chair crapo: if confirmed, how could we work together to integrate nutrition-based interventions into our health care like medicaid and medicare? mr. kennedy: there are many ways that we could do that. a federal funding of the snap program, for example, and a school lunch programs would be a driver for helping kids. we shouldn't be getting 60% of the kids in school processed food that is making them sick. we shouldn't be giving, we shouldn't be spending 10% of the snap program on sugar drinks. so we have a direct ability to change things there. in medicaid and medicare we need to focus more on outcome based medicine, on putting people in charge of their own health care.

making them accountable for their own health. so they understand the relationship between eating and getting sick. most importantly, we need to use deploy nih and an fda to doing the research to understand the relationship between these different food additives and chronic disease, so that americans understand it and make sure that america is aware. i don't want to take food away from anybody. if you like a mcdonald's cheeseburger and a diet coke, which my boss loves, you should be able to get them if you want to eat hostess twinkies, you should be able to do that. but you should know what the impacts are on your family and on your health. chair crapo: thank you, senator wyden. sen. wyden: before i begin my questions i'd like to start by entering into the record a letter the committee received from ambassador caroline kennedy outlining what she believes is

mr. kennedy's lack of personal fitness for the office. chair crapo: that objection. sen. wyden: mr. kennedy, you have spent years pushing conflicting stories about vaccines. you say one thing, and then you say another. your testimony today underwrote you denied that you were anti-vaccine. but during a podcast interview in july of 2023 you said "no vaccine is safe and effective." in your testimony today in order to prove you are not anti-you note that all your kids are vaccinated. but in a podcast in 2020 you said and i quote "you would do anything, pay anything to go back in time and not vaccinate your kids." mr. kennedy, all of these things cannot be true. so are you to congress today when you say you are

pro-vaccine, or did you on all those podcasts? we have all of this on tape, by the way. mr. kennedy: senator, as you know, because it has been repeatedly debunked, that statement that i made on the broadcast -- podcast was a fragment of the statement. he asked me, and anybody who actually goes and looks at that podcast will see this, he asked me are there vaccines that are safe and effective? and i said to him some of the live virus vaccines are. i said there are no vaccines that are safe and effective and i was going to continue for every person. every medicine has people who are sensitive to it. including vaccines. he interrupted me at that point. i've corrected it many times including on national tv, you know about this, senator wyden, so bringing this up right now is dishonest. sen. wyden: let's be clear about what you've actually done then since you want to deny your

statements. for example, you have a history of trying to take vaccines away from people. in may of 2021 you petitioned the fda to not only block americans from having access to the covid vaccine, but to prevent any future access to the lifesaving vaccine. are you denying that? your name is on the petition. mr. kennedy: we brought that petition after cdc recommended the covid vaccine without any scientific data, scientific basis for six-year-old children. most experts agree today, even the people who did it back then, that covid vaccines are inappropriate for six-year-old children who basically have zero risk of covid. that is why i brought that lawsuit. i want to emphasize -- [shouting from the back]

[gavel banging] chair crapo: the court will be in order, including the audience. let's hold up for a second mr. kennedy. comments from the audience are inappropriate and out of order, and if there are any further disruptions, the committee will recess until the police can restore order. please follow the rules of the committee. mr. kennedy, you may proceed. mr. kennedy: i also want to point out that your recitation of what happened in samoa is absolutely wrong. sen. wyden: we will get to that in a moment. right now we are talking about the petition that you filed to block americans from having access to the vaccine and to prevent any future access to the vaccine, those facts are on the record. my third question to you is you

made almost $5 million from book deals, mostly promoting junk science. 2021 in a book called the measles book you wrote that parents had been "misled into believing that measles is a deadly disease, that measles vaccines are necessarily safe and effective. the reality is measles are in fact deadly and highly contagious, something that you should have learned after your lies contributed to the deaths of 83 people, most of them children in a measles outbreak in samoa. so my question here is, mr. kennedy, is measles deadly, yes or no? mr. kennedy: the death rate from measles historically in this country in 1963, the year before the vaccine was one in 10,000. let me explain what happened in samoa. in samoa in 2015 there were two kids who died following mmr

vaccines. and the vaccination rates in samoa dropped precipitously from about 63% to the mid-30's, they've never been very high. in 2018, 2 more kids died following the mmr vaccine and the government of samoa banned the vaccine. i arrived a year later when vaccination rates were already below any previous level. i went there nothing to do with vaccines. i went there to introduce a medical system that would digitalize records in samoa and make health delivery much more efficient. i never gave any public safety about vaccines. you cannot find a single samoan who will say i didn't get a vaccine because of bobby kennedy. i went in june of 2019, the measles outbreak started in august. so clearly i had nothing to do with the measles.

sen. wyden: mr. kennedy -- mr. kennedy: if you will let me finish -- sen. wyden: you have had some time. mr. kennedy: if you've let me finish, 83 people died when the tissue samples were sent to new zealand. most of those people did not have measles. we don't know what was killing them. sen. wyden: the same outbreak occurredsen. wyden: in tonga and no extra people died. there were seven measles outbreaks in the 13 years. the nominee wrote a book saying that people have been misled into believing that measles is a deadly disease. he's trying now to play down his role in samoa. that is not with the parents say, that is not what governor green says. it's time to make sure that we blow the whistle on what your views are. chair crapo: we need to move on. mr. kennedy: i support the measles vaccine, i support the polio vaccine. i will do nothing to change that.

sen. wyden: anybody who believes that ought to look at the measles book you wrote saying parents have been misled into believing that measles was a deadly disease. that is not true. chair crapo: we need to move on. senator grassley. senator grassley: welcome. i'm going to do like i did in my office, i'm just going to make some points to you. i've got about seven i want to quickly get done, and then at the end, i'm going to ask if you disagree with anything i say and then address those things you disagree with. i will make sure to save time for you to do that. a key responsibility of each member of congress's oversight. oversight allows us to hold bureaucrats accountable to the rule of law and it helps keep faith with taxpayers. i expect hhs to provide timely and complete responses to congressional oversight.

number two, pbms, something you and i discussed in our office. i've been working to hold pharmacy managers accountable in order to lower prescription drug prices. i expect you to work with us to hold them accountable, and i may even ask in your support for legislation to speak for the congress. drug pricing. senator durbin and i have for a while been trying to get a bill passed that requires price disclosures on tv and for prescription drugs. knowing when something costs before buying it is just common sense. president trump tried to do this by regulation in his first term. vice president pence cosponsored our bill last congress. i ask you to support this bill or if you can do it by regulation, with my regulation.

on neural health care. ration opening up slots for rural community hospital demonstration programs that also ignored concern from borough pharmacies when into and changes to medicare part d and ignored rural needs when it comes to distributing residency slots. i expect you to prioritize burrell americans health care needs. on agriculture. in our meeting earlier this month we talked at length about agriculture. he prefaced the conversation by saying you will not have jurisdiction over these issues. i expect you to leave agricultural practice regulations to the proper agencies and for the most part, that is usta and epa. on dietary guidelines i've sent letters to the secretaries of agriculture, hhs, requesting

that they provide information regarding conflicts of interest on the dietary guidelines visor committee. i expect you the provider to make confidential financial disclosures from the advisory committee before finalizing dietary guidelines so we know that nobody has a vested interest and is having new influence. lastly, hhs office of refugee settlement oversight. last year i expanded my investigation into hhs' office of refugee resettlement. i wrote two dozen contractors and grantees whose job it is to place unaccompanied children with sponsors. in many cases, children had been placed with improper sponsors,

placing them at risk of trafficking. biden administration's hhs corrected these taxpayer-funded contractors and grantees cannot respond to my inquiry. this is obstruction by the executive branch. i expect you to produce to me the records and data i've requested and instruct hhs contractors to fully cooperate with my investigation. i also expect hhs to not retaliate against any whistleblowers including those identified orr's failures in vettimg sponsors. you've got 45 seconds of responding. mr. kennedy: i agree with all of those provisions, senator. my approach to administration hhs will be radical transparency.

if members of this committee or other members of congress want information, the doors are open. i've spent many years litigating against nih and its sub agencies. i mean, hhs and its sub agencies. nih, cdc, fda on issues trying to get information that we the taxpayers pay for and often times getting back redacted copies after a year or two years of litigation. that should not be the case ended congress asked me for information, you will get it immediately. chair crapo: thank you. senator cantwell is next but until she returns i will move on down the list and that would be senator cornyn. senator cornyn: welcome to you and your family and congratulations. i appreciate senator grassley raising the issue of the office of refugee resettlement within the offices of health and human services. i think this may surprise people, but that is actually the responsibility of hhs, the

office of resettlement relocation. under the previous administration as senator grassley alluded, there were roughly 500,000 children, unaccompanied minors place with sponsors in the interior of the united states. the previous administration took the position that it was not the federal government's responsibility once these children were placed with these sponsors, but the new york times and a series of investigative stories pointed out that tens of thousands of these children when they tried to follow-up and find out how they were doing, whether they were going to school, whether they were being trafficked, there was no answer, and they took the position it was not their responsibility. so i look forward to working with you to find those children and to make sure that they are not being abused. millions of americans are experiencing mild-to-moderate

mental health and substance abuse issues that many struggle with timely and effective access. primary care physicians are most likely to be seeing these individuals as opposed to a specialist, and it makes it important that these individuals, primary care physicians be trained in patient centered care which would strengthen the integration of behavioral health care with primary care services. is this something that you are concerned about, something you would be willing to work with us on in order to limit? mr. kennedy: yes, senator. let me just reassure you that president trump has personally spoken to me about locating those 300,000 children disappeared over the last four years. chair crapo: i don't think anybody has a fully accurate number but it is hundreds of thousands, i agree. mr. kennedy: and many of them we know have been sex trafficked, childhood slavery, and it is a blight on america's moral

authority and we need to find those kids. in terms of addiction services, substance abuse services, it is a priority for me. it was a priority for me when i was running for president during my campaign. i was a heroin addict for 14 years. i am 42 years in recovery. i go to 12-step meetings every day so i hear the stories everyday. and i hear the many stories about the barriers to access to care. we need to improve that and to answer specifically your question, i think we can do that through gme, which is a program that is funded by hhs that is the largest funder for medical schools, and that is one of the things for primary care physicians to understand

addiction care. addicts almost always go through a cycle where there is a moment where they had periodic bottoms where they are ready to go into treatment. it is fleeting and it is momentary. we have the opportunity to save their lives. and if we miss that short little window, they are off to the races again. sen. cornyn: i appreciate your answer, our time is short. let me get to one more question that i think is very important. under the first trump administration the number of people receiving hiv treatment in africa through the present emergency plan for aids relief, this is during the first trump administration from 13 million people to 18 million people across 50 countries. primarily in africa. africa has about 1.3 billion people today or in 2021, it is

projected to have 2.5 billion people by 2050, or 25% of the global population. in 2020, it was reported that 2.8 million babies were born without hiv. that was something that would not have happened, but for that program. so it has simply been one of the most successful public health programs in the world and saved approximately 26 million lives. failure to continue this program in my view would be ceding that leadership to adversaries like china and i would like to know whether you support the objectives and goals and when you work with me and my colleagues to make sure that this program continues to provide life-saving antiviral drugs people who most are in need? mr. kennedy: i absolutely support pet far and i would happily work with you to

strengthen the program. chair crapo: thank you. senator bennet. senator bennet: thank you for being here this morning. i think that, mr. chairman, we are truly through the looking glass this morning here in the u.s. senate, and this committee is being asked to fulfill a really important responsibility, which is to decide whether to confirm mr. kennedy to one of the most important health care jobs in america. and the reason i think it is so important is for many of the reasons you said in your opening statement, which is that we live in the richest country in the world, and we have some of the worst health outcomes of any industrialized country. we live in the richest country in the world, and we have some of the lowest life expectancy rates of anybody in the industrialized world. i was a school superintendent before i was in this job, mr.

chairman, and i can tell you that mr. kennedy is right that when i look at the kids in the denver public schools, if we don't change the way we eat in this country, 40% of them are going to suffer adult diabetes as a result of their diet. and as i said, spending more than any other country in the world and families, every single person's constituents in the senate are facing chronic shortages when it comes to health care. my friends from texas. we have an epidemic, as he knows, across this country in mental health care, partly because of the massive social media platforms that are sitting behind the president of the united states had inflicted on her children for their profit in the last decade or so.

so we have no shortage of challenges to confront and i even agree with some of the diagnoses of mr. kennedy. what is so disturbing to me is that out of 330 million americans, we are being asked to put somebody in this job was then 50 years of his life not honoring the tradition that he talked about at the beginning of this conversation, but peddling and half-truths. peddling in false statements, peddling in theories that create doubt about things that we know are safe are unsafe. not that every vaccine in america is unsafe, not that you can't possibly have been adverse reaction, but in parents and children in my school district, they would be better off not getting vaccinated and getting vaccinated.

unlike his own children who are vaccinated, unlike the people he invited to his house in los angeles for their party who were vaccinated. for everybody else, it is about peddling these half-truths and he says it with such conviction that you want to believe him. and mr. kennedy, there are many, many things in the record, but i hope that you can answer these questions yes or no. i've tried to ask these in a manner that is stay for the you actually said because i didn't want to have a debate about whether or not you actually said them. so i'm asking you yes or no, did you say that covid-19 was a genetically engineered bioweapon targeted to black-and-white people but stared -- spared jews and chinese people? mr. kennedy: i didn't say it was deliberately targeted, i just

quoted a study -- sen. bennet: did you say that it targets black-and-white people but targets jewish people? mr. kennedy: i quoted a study that said that. sen. bennet: i'll take that as a yes. did you say that lyme disease is highly likely a materially engineered bioweapon? i made sure i put in the highly likely. did you say lyme disease is a highly likely militarily engineered bioweapon? mr. kennedy: i probably did say that. that is -- sen. bennet: i want all of our colleagues to hear it, mr. kennedy. you said yes. did you say that exposure to pesticides causes children to become transgender? mr. kennedy: i never said that. sen. bennet: i have the record that i will give to the chairman and he can make his judgment about what you said. did you write in your book and it is undeniable that african aids is an entirely different

disease from western aids? yes or no? mr. kennedy: i'm not sure. sen. bennet: i will give it to the chairman. and my final question, did you say on a podcast, and i quote, " i wouldn't leave abortion to the states. my belief is we should leave it to the woman. we shouldn't have the government involved, even if it is full-term." did you say that? mr. kennedy: senator i believe every abortion is a tragedy -- sen. bennet: did you say it, mr. kennedy? it doesn't matter what you come here and say that isn't true, that is not reflective of what you really believe. that you haven't said over decade after decade after decade because unlike other jobs we are confirming around this place, this is a job where it is life-and-death for the kids that i used to work for in the denver public schools and for families all over this country that are suffering from living in the richest country in the world that can't deliver basic health

care and basic mental health care to them. it is too important for the games that you are playing, mr. kennedy. and i hope my colleagues will say to the president, i have no influence over him, i hope my colleagues will say to the president out of 330 million americans, we can do better than this. chair crapo: senator cassidy. [like applause] >> mr. kennedy, president trump is sworn to protect medicare. republicans are exploring reforms to medicaid that could help pay for trumpet ministration priorities. with this context, what will you do about the legible's -- dual eligibles? mr. kennedy: dual eligibles are not right now sir very well under the system. those are people who are eligible for both medicaid and

medicare. i suppose my answer to that is to make sure that the programs are consolidated, but they are integrated. i look forward to working with you, dr. cassidy, on making sure that we take care of people. sen. cassidy: and how do you propose that we integrate those programs, does medicare pay more, less, how do we do that? mr. kennedy: i'm not exactly sure because i'm not in there. it is difficult to integrate them because medicare is paid for by employer taxes. medicaid is fully paid for by the federal government, and it is not the for service.

i do not know the answer to that, i look forward to exploring options with you. sen. cassidy: republicans again are looking at ways to potentially reform medicaid to help pay for president trump's priorities, and to improve outcomes. what thoughts do you have regarding medicaid reform? mr. kennedy: medicaid is not working for americans. it is specifically not working for the target population. most americans like myself, i'm on medicare advantage, i'm very happy with it. most people on medicaid are not happy. the premiums are too high, the deductibles are too high, the networks are narrow. the best doctors will not accept the best hospitals. and particularly medicaid was originally designed for a target population of americans. it has now been dramatically

expanded. and the irony of the expansion is that the poorest americans are now being robbed. there is a dramatic decrease, even though we've increased the price of medicare by 60% over the last four years, the target population is being robbed. sen. cassidy: obviously you thought about that and i appreciate that. what reforms do you recommend again that would improve services, i suppose, but also make it more cost-efficient? mr. kennedy: president trump has given me the charge of improving quality of care and price of care for all americans. there on anything that we can do. the ultimate outcome i think is to increase transparency, to increase accountability, and to transition to a value-based

system rather than a fee-based system. sen. cassidy: on medicaid in particular can you take those general principles and apply it to the medicaid program? mr. kennedy: listen, i think that there are many, many options with telemedicine, with ai right now, and including direct primary care systems, we are seeing those moves across the country, that is one of the largest -- sen. cassidy: so going back to medicaid though, and speaking of these specific advances, what reforms are you proposing with these ideas vis-a-vis medicaid? mr. kennedy: i don't have a broad proposal for dismantling the program. sen. cassidy: of course i'm not saying that. mr. kennedy: i think what we need to do is we need to experiment with pilot programs, we need to keep our eye on the

ultimate goal which is value-based care, which is transparency, cabability, access. sen. cassidy: and one more thing, you mentioned you are an ma, you mentioned the medicare fee-for-service. do you have any kind of thoughts as to whether or not patients should move into nh, or how should we handle that? mr. kennedy: whether patients...? sen. cassidy: who are on medicare. mr. kennedy: that is their choice right now. i think 32 million americans or 30 million americans on medicare, untraditional medicare and then another 34 or 34 on medicare advantage, roughly half-and-half, i think more people would rather be on medicare advantage because it offers very good services. but people can't afford it.

it is much more expensive. and to answer your first question, there are all kinds of exciting things that we can be doing including cooperatives which president trump has supported, including savings accounts which president trump has supported. all of these things to make people more accountable for their own health. sen. cassidy: so bring the cooperatives in a health savings account into medicare and medicaid? mr. kennedy: exactly. we try to increase those, the use of those and to direct primary care to continue to transition into a value-based program that is private.

most americans that they could afford to be

americans from cyber criminals. something we need to do a lot more on. will you commit not to fire anyone in health arena who currently works on protecting americans from cyber attacks in their healthcare files. >> i will commit. not firing anybody who's doing their job. >> based on your opinion, based on your opinion or political agenda or mr. trump's. >> based on my opinion. >> i guess that means a lot of folks who had any type of views on vaccines will be out of work. will you freeze grant fund

forgot community health centers? will you freeze federal funds for community health centers. >> the white house has made clear no funds will be denied to any american for benefits. any program. >> do you know what happens at community health centers? >> are you talking about the indian health centers >> no, community health centers across the country. >> i understand that. >> you'll excuse indian health which is good but others will get funds frozen. >> i strongly support community health centers as does the president. >> does that mean you're not going to freeze the funding. >> make clear that none of that funding is supposed to be frozen. >> sir, the direct payments are different than how the government operates. we fund the federal government down to community health centers as a former governor. there's lots and lots of state programs that are related to healthcare that come from the federal government. they come down to the state.

then goes to local programs. all of those don't directly pay out a dollar at a time. but come from federal funding. they're all, you know, even though they keep changing on a minute-by-minute basis, based on 945 or 10:30 or 10:45 whatever time those funds are still frozen. sir, i just honestly i want to give you a fair shot. but i don't feel like -- i don't feel like you approached this job way the knowledge and candidly your willingness not to commit to try to recommend to the president to make sure these funds are unfrozen and people's lives are at stake is a very is disappointing answer. thank you, mr. chairman. >> chairman, thank you. mr. kennedy good to see you. we had great visits in my office. you and i talked about 100 different issues and backgrounds and things. you've been able to address a

lot today and different questions to be able to clear up social media rumors and things out there. i do appreciate that. we talked about pharmacy benefit managers. the nursing home, biden administration, views on agricultural and commercial and row crop, agricultural, food issues and you made it very, very clear you're not going to tell americans what to eat but you want americans to know what they're eating. that's a fair perspective on that. i do want to talk to you about areas you and i talked about as well. we have disagreements on the issue of life. when life begins on that you've been out spoken on that. . this has been an area interpreted a long time and president trump in the first administration interpretered that to say that his administration will prohibit performance, referral for promotion of abortion as a part of the title ten program. obviously that's his decision to

make again on that how he wants to handle that and made a lot of public statements. the biden administration not only reversed that. not only rescinded. but they went one step the other direction. in my state in oklahoma as you and i talked about the biden administration cut off funding to the state of oklahoma for aids testing, for breast cancer screening and for other areas of poverty, healthcare because my state didn't promote abortion. it wasn't provide. if my state wouldn't promote abortion in the state. we got cut off for federal funds for aids testing and other things. my simple question is how are you going to handle title ten on that? i saw how president biden handled that that came in my state. how will you >> i support president trump policies on title ten. i agree with president trump every abortion is a tragedy. i agree with him that we cannot be a moral nation if we have 1.2

million abortions a year. i agree that states should control abortion president trump told me that he wants to end late term abortions. he wants to protect conscious exemptions and end federal funding for abortions here or broad that's title ten. i serve the pleasure of the president i'm going to implement his policies. >> president biden when he came in immediately closed down the office of civil rights and conscience withins. there's a statement he will reopen to be able to protect the civil rights of americans. one of the things that javier did when he came in was conscious projections for medical against their -- javier

stepped up and renew. he said you don't have protections anymore and refused to protect those folks. will you step in and say that healthcare individual have the right of conscience again as the federal law allows >> the first thing that occurs to me when you ask that question is what patient would want somebody doing a surgery on, to perform that. i don't know anybody who would want to have that. have a doctor perform a surgery that the doctor is morally opposed to. i came from a family that was split on laugh and choice. i have cousins today who believe that abortion at any stage is equivalent to homicide. now, there are other people who believe the opposite.

good thing i loved is that we were able to have the conversations and speak each other and i wish we could do that nationally. if forcing somebody to participate in a medical procedure that they'll be is murder does not make sense to me. we need to welcome diversity in this country. respect diversity and respect each other when we have different opinions and not you know, not force our opinions on other people. >> thank you for that. fda under the biden administration changed the rules for the chemical abortion drug and said you no longer need to see a physician. if you have an ectopic pregnancy don't even go anymore. to see a physician. but they changed an area that has been something particular you talked about a lot and

that's transparency. don't tell us if there's a side effect on this drug unless she dies. other than that don't tell us anymore. don't give transparent information to the american people or women who take this drug anymore. we don't want that reported. my question to you is, will fda move to be able to actually give transparency to the american people and to say, this drug is no different than any other drug. we don't protect it just because it's political for some folks. people should know side effects on this drug and there should be reporting. >> i mean, it's against everything we believe in of this country that had patients or doctors should not be reporting adverse events. we need to know what adverse events are. we need to understand the safety of every drug and every other

drug: mr. president if mifepristone he's made it clear to me he wants me to look at the safety issues. i'll ask nih and fda to do that. >> senator whitehouse. >> thank you, chairman. mr. kennedy i only have five minutes with you. so i've got a lot of experience with cm s. so you're going to have to listen. two things, one, if you want to move from advocacy to public responsibility, americans are going to need to hear a clear and trustworthy recantation of what you have said on vaccinations, including a promise from you never to say vaccines aren't medically safe. when they, in fact, are.

and making in disputably clear that you support mandatory vaccinations against diseases where that will keep people safe. you're in that hole pretty deep. we've just had a measles case in rhode island, first since 2013. and frankly, you frighten people. two. i want to air harms that rhode island has experienced from a remorseless senseless cms bureaucracy. cms has for years maintained a reimbursement system that the bureaucracy could never explain be never justify that persistly pays rhode island providers less than neighboring massachusetts and connecticut providers.

a different shall of 23 and 26% in our regional healthcare market. the pending ahead program can begin to remedy this. at least for value based care. and it must. there has to be payment pardee in the region. the healthcare system is bleeding out because we aren't paid what neighboring hospitals and doctors are paid and the one act cms took on this years ago was to make it worse. the cms bureaucracy also attacked one of the best accountable care organizations in the country. rhode island's integra family doctors tried to throw them off the shared savings program because they said integra, years ago, briefly, failed 137 patients short of the 5,000 patients that ac o's need.

cms wouldn't listen until a court found that to be unjustified, likely illegal, irreparable, harm to this high performing aco and its patients. and contrary to public interest. that must stop. cms recovered to approve waivers granted elsewhere from rhode island from rules that are stupid for medicare patients nearing the end of their days. here's what families see. granny is home dying. she needs to transfer to a nursing home. and medicare insists on putting her three days and two nights in a hospital. expensive frightening to granny and the family and stupid. granny is home dying and can't get palliative and curative care

together. inhumane and stupid. granny is home dying and can't get home care if she can still get out into the yard or be driven to see the shore. to see nara gan set beach to recall childhood memorys before she dies in humane and stupid. granny is dying and the family is exhausted and the respite care benefit is not just send a nurse or caregiver. but to stuff granny in an ambulance and haul her off to a hospital. some respite. it's all expensive, frightening in humane and stupid. but the cms bureaucracy takes a court order to be awakened to the harm they cause. i have had enough.

cms should let rhode island try humane end of life care through cmmi. let's see if it works in the state. i'll bet it will save money. serve families better at a very, very delicate time. and perhaps even make a model for better healthcare everywhere. i've said a lot. my time is out. you're welcome to respond in writing. ask for unanimous consent that the order declaring cms actions to constitute irreparable and illegal harm be put into the record. >> without objection >> let me respond briefly. i'm an enemy of tyrann cal in sense aid bureaucracies and stupid roles. and i will work with you make c ms responsive to the needs of rhode island and to remedy those disparities that you talk about.

i am familiar with the integra health plan. and it is a template for what we ought to be doing. and i look forward to you to making sure that we -- we create pilot programs like this. around country. >> unfortunately, mr. chairman one of the things i've learned in my tenure in the senate is that a nominee saying they're willing to work with me amounts to exactly 0. we need to get this fixed. thank you. chairman: i guess we'll move on to senator danes. >> mr. kennedy glad to see you here this morning. i listened to your opening remarks. and you mentioned that you want to make hhs the gold standard of science. i have found my engagements with you both behind closed doors in my office as well as listening

to you publically to be very thoughtful and as soon as science based, i realize there will be a partisan vote. but let the record reflect. i'm a chemical engineer. we believe in science and thankful that you do too and you made that comment in your opening remarks. i want to talk about agricultural for a moment. you've been to montana many times. a wonderful state. a lot of folks discovered it and they watched yellowstone and people are coming moving to our state it's a an amazing state. agricultural is our top economic driver in montana, produce some of the highest quality crops, best live stock in the country and the world. our farmers and our ranchers are truly some of the most effective

environmental stewards in insuring we have a safe food supply chain in the world. i share your view that protecting the integrity and safety of our food supply is utmost importance. i appreciate the research happening in places like montana state university to help farmers produce residual, healthy and safe crops as well as their agricultural practices. you mentioned you were a 4 h kid growing up. i think our 4 h kids are some of the best in america. my question for you, mr. kennedy is if confirmed, as i'm listening to my farmers and ranchers talk about the future. will you commit to working collaboratively with partners at usda at the relevant federal agencies as well as our montana farmers and ranchers before implementing any policy that might affect or impact food supply?

>> absolutely will make that commitment. i shared with you a personal commitment and a long career working with farmers. i want to make sure i understand the very, very narrow margins slim margins american farmers and ranchers are dealing with. and i don't want under my watch as a single farmer to have to leave his farm for economic reasons or for regulatory or bureaucratic reasons while i serve if privileged to serve to be confirmed as hs secretary. president trump has a strong commitment to farmers. president trump is probably historically in modern history the best farm president in our history. our income spiked for the first time in decades under his last

administration. he got solid support from farmers across the country, farm country is trump country. farmers across the country supported him during this election. he is specifically instructed me that he wants farmers involved in every policy and that he wants me to work with brook rollins as usda to make sure that we preserve american farmers that all policies support them. >> mr. kennedy thank you, if confirmed i look forward to having you and brook rollins to montana. >> you have my income any time particularly ski season or hunting season. >> deal. i want to shift gears for a moment. as we discussed in the meeting we had in my office, mifepristone was approved in 2000, the fda is under scrutiny and brought to court for failure to properly assess this drug as

well as subsequent deregulation to senator lange ford described past 25 years, some deregulations included ending the requirement that these drugs be prescribed by a doctor. ending reporting requirements for adverse events and allowing these pills to be obtained through the mail. in fact, the fda's own prescribing label mentioned that three to five percent of women taking this drug end up in the emergency room. my question is, if confirmed as secretary of hss will you commit to working with the fda commission review, do regulatory actions that are threatening the safety of women? >> senator, as i said to senator langford. it's immoral to have a policy

where patients are not allowed to report adverse events where doctors are discouraged from doing that. president trump has asked me to study the safety of mifepristone. he has not yet taken a stand on how to regulate it. whatever he does, i will implement those policies. i will work with this committee. make those policies make sense. >> thank you, mr. kennedy. chairman: senator has send. >> thank you. i want to start with a couple of concerns. briefly. on medicaid. states share in the funding of medicaid. millions of disabled children in this country are alive because of medicaid. millions of people with addiction in this country are in recovery because of the services provided to them by medicaid. and millions of chronically ill people who until medicaid expansion was enacted who

couldn't get healthcare and therefore couldn't work because they were too sick got healthcare through medicaid expansion then went back to work and now they're on private insurance. so those are some facts about medicaid that you might want to brush up on. i'm also extremely concerned about your endorsement of radical fringe conspiracies that if implemented at hss would put american families lives at risk. vaccines are one of our greatest public health triumphs. i'm not talking about abstract medical science. one of the people who helped raise me was my grandfather, a pediatrician, practiced medicine in this country from 1921 until the mid 1980s. i heard details about the difference those vaccines made in saving lives in the children under his care. vaccination helped to eradicate many deadly diseases in the united states, including polio and small pox. something we should be proud of as americans.

i am extremely concerned that as secretary you would be able to halt critical vaccine research and to exploit parents natural worries by advising them not to vaccinate their children, will lead to more children getting sick and some will die. before the measles vaccine, about 500 american children died a year from measles. this is too much of a risk for our country and there is no reason that any of us should believe that you have reversed the anti-vaccine views that you promoted for 25 years. for example, you have previously falsely suggested that the polio vaccine killed many, many, many, many more people than polio ever did. by causing fatal cancers, while rigorous safety studies show that to be completely false. now, let's go to something we agree upon. i am really heart ended to see that one area we agree on is on women's reproductive freedom.

in your own words, it's not the government's place to tell people what to do with their bodies. you said that. correct? mr. kennedy in 2023, you came to new hampshire and said, quote, i'm pro choice. i don't think the government has any business telling people what they can or cannot do with their body. you said that. right? >> yes. >> you also said we need to trust the women to make that choice because i don't trust government to make any choices. you said that too. right? . >> yes. >> it is remarkable that you have such a a long record of fig for women's reproductive freedom and really great that my republican colleagues are so open to voting for a pro-choice hhs secretary. mr. kennedy, i'm confused. you clearly stated in the past that bodily economy is one of your core values. the question is, do you stand for that value are not? when did you decide to sell out the values you've had your whole

life in order to be given power by president trump? mr. kennedy: senator, i agree with president trump that every abortion is a tragedy. we can't be a moral authority of this country. sen. hassan: that is not what you said in new hampshire in 2023. my question is, when did you decide to sell out your life's work and values to get this position? mr. kennedy: i agree with president trump that every abortion is a tragedy. sen. hassan: my time is limited. regardless of what values you have, if president trump tells you to do something, you are going to do it? you said now that the discussion about mifepristone come he asked me to study the safety of it. here are the safety studies that tell us mifepristone is safe and effective. i asked, mr. chair, that these about 40 studies be admitted to the record by unanimous consent. chair crapo: without objection.

sen. hassan: the studies are there, the safety is proved, the science is there. you are telling us that if president trump orders you to take action to make it harder for women to get direly needed health care, you will follow his order? if mr. trump, as he did yesterday, orders a halt on medicaid payments that are essential for taking care of people with disabilities all around the country you will follow that order? because you are willing to sacrifice your values, your knowledge if president trump tells you to do that. that to me is unacceptable of a secretary of health and human services. mr. kennedy: as i explained before, the white house has issued a statement saying that that policy will not deprive any american -- sen. hassan: the problem is, the white house issued that statement only after we pointed

out the damage it would do and it became politically uncomfortable for them. do you know what else that freeze on federal funding did? it halted funds for critical research that could cure pediatric cancer. if the president tells you to do that, you will stop that too? that's enough. chair crapo: senator cortez masto is next. sen. cortez masto: thank you for coming into my office and having the conversation we did. i appreciate your passion and your belief. you have spent years really talking about the issues that matter to you, and i appreciate that. let me ask you a couple questions, though. i just need some clarification. now there is the 40-year-old law that requires hospital ers accepting payment from medicare to actually provide emergency care to patients.

a woman experiencing a life-threatening condition like a heart attack goes to the er. as a lawyer, you would agree federal law protects her right to emergency care. correct? mr. kennedy: yes. sen. cortez masto: a pregnant woman with life-threatening bleeding from an incomplete miscarriage goes to the er. let me rephrase so you can hear. a pregnant woman with a life-threatening bleeding from an incomplete miscarriage goes to the er, and her doctor also determines she needs an emergency abortion, but she is in a state where abortion is banned. you would agree also as an attorney that federal law protects her right to that emergency care, correct? mr. kennedy: i don't know. the answer to that is i don't know. sen. cortez masto: as an attorney, doesn't federal law preempts state law? mr. kennedy: the federal

constitution does. not every federal law preempts state laws. it could be unconstitutional. senator, i'm telling you i don't -- sen. cortez masto: i appreciate that, but what authority do you have over this as the director of hhs? mr. kennedy: what authority do i have? sen. cortez masto: to enforce the law. mr. kennedy: in what regards? sen. cortez masto: to make sure that a hospital that receives payment from medicare is ensuring that they are providing the necessary emergency care to patients. what authority do you have as hhs at their desk hhs secretary do you have? mr. kennedy: budgetary power is pretty much limited to that. if you tell me that i have another authority, i don't think that we have a law enforcement branch at hhs. sen. cortez masto: it is cms.

cms investigates complaints of violations as well as the health and human services inspector general who, by the way, was recently fired by donald trump. you will be enforcing emtala laws and it is important you understand their impacts and don't play politics with the patient presenting at the er based on a position that this administration has taken. let me ask you another question. when we met in my office, you said about lowering drug prices that when big pharma price gouges the american people suffer. i think we both agree on that. i think you are insincere and your belief you want to reduce prices for americans -- you are sincere in your belief that you want to reduce prices for americans? medicare penalizes drug companies for price hikes above inflation and it caps seniors' out-of-pocket drug costs as long

as reducing insulin prices to $35 a month. your future boss, donald trump, on his first day in office revoked president biden's executive order that actually directed the health secretary to examine ways to reduce drug prices and improve access to innovative therapies for the american people. and, unfortunately, republicans in congress want to repeal the inflation reduction act, which remains reversing all of those things that we worked on to lower prices for americans. so, my question to you is, what do you do? why are you there? are you there to be a rubberstamp to this administration and cave in to all of these positions that they are taking? even though you know they are in disagreement with your position on lowering drug prices and they can harm americans?

how do you handle that as hhs director? mr. kennedy: senator, my understanding is the white house issued an executive order, i believe today, supporting drug negotiations under the ira. president trump was very aggressive during his first term about negotiating drug prices. he has instructed me -- i met with him repeatedly -- we need lower prices for seniors in this country. sen. cortez masto: let me ask you this. i only have so much time. we have already negotiated lowering prices for 10 drugs with big pharma. big pharma opposes this. they are not only asking for a pause and have filed lawsuits, but we have negotiated the first 10 drugs and we want to expand it to the next 10 to 15 that the biden administration put

forward. would you agree and continue that path of mandating that big pharma come to the table and negotiate drug prices for medicare so that we can lower those prices for americans? mr. kennedy: my understanding is the executive order issued today, which i have read a summary of -- sen. cortez masto: you keep citing the trump administration and you will just follow what they will say. is that what you're doing? you are just a rubberstamp in this position? it could be anyone coming before us as long as they are a rubberstamp for this administration and disregarding core beliefs and what you think? if it really is fundamental to what you believe, how do you live with that? how do you address those issues as you are moving forward? mr. kennedy: do you want me to answer the question, senator? sen. cortez masto: yeah. mr. kennedy: i am asking you. -- i am asking you. mr. kennedy: president trump has asked me to in the chronic disease epidemic and make america healthy again. sen. cortez masto: are you only at the hhs to address that one

issue? mr. kennedy: president trump asked me because i am in a unique position to end that. that is what i'm doing. if we don't solve that problem, senator, all of the other disputes we have about who is paying, or there is insurance companies, whether it is providers, whether it is hmos, whether it is patients or families, all of those are moving deck chairs on the titanic. our ship is sinking. 60% increase in medicaid over the past four years is the biggest budget line now. it is growing faster than any other. no other nation in the world has what we have here. no other nation has chronic disease -- we have the highest chronic disease burden of any country in the world. during covid we had 60% of covid deaths in a country. we have 4.2% of the population. we had the higher death count

than anyone in the world. when cdc asked why, they said because americans are the sickest people on earth. the average person died from covid, american, had 3.8 chronic diseases. this is an existential threat economically, to our military, to our health, to our sense of well-being, and it's a priority for president trump. that is why he asked me to run the agency. if i'm privileged to be confirmed, that is exactly what i will do. [applause] chair crapo: senator barrasso. sen. barrasso: thank you for taking time to visit with me in my office prior to today's hearing to talk about issues affecting health care in my home state of wyoming as well as the nation. i appreciate your willingness to serve our country. in the meeting we discussed challenges that health care providers and patients are facing in rural america.

workforce shortages, issues of owed bd -- of ob/gyn, and painful regulations out of the biden administration hurting our ability to provide nursing home staffing. starting with the rural hospitals and the closure of hospitals like that, there are a lot of challenges facing hospitals in rural communities in frontier areas. we have 33 hospitals in wyoming. 26 are located in areas hard to get to. six of the hospitals are at risk of closing. two are at immediate risk of closing and the next two years. 10 have had to cut available services. this is a concern of rural hospitals, republican and democrat states, bipartisan. it's critical that the workforce challenges, financial challenges that we are facing are addressed. can you commit to working with us on a plan to address the critical nationwide issue of rural health care? mr. kennedy: yes, senator.

i would say that during my visit -- i visited almost 60 senators. the most common i would say unifying issue of democrats and republicans, there were two. one was pbm reform and the other is rural hospitals. our nation made a commitment over 100 years ago to put a hospital within 30 miles of every american. we generally succeeded in doing that. it is absolutely critical. it is lifesaving. rural hospitals are closing at an extraordinary rate right now. they not only provide important health care for the localities, but also they are economic drivers for localities all over this country. president trump is determined to end the hemorrhage of rural hospitals and he has asked me to do that through the use of ai,

through telemedicine -- innovations that i saw the other day at cleveland clinic. they have developed an ai nurse. you cannot distinguish them from a human being. it has diagnostics as good as any doctor. we can develop, we can provide concierge care to every american in the country, even those in the remote parts of montana, wyoming, alaska, etc. we also have opportunities at the gme to finally live up to gme's mission of providing personnel to rural hospitals. i intend to use all of my power. i have seen the priority that has been given by democrats and republicans on this committee to make that a priority if i am

privileged to be confirmed. sen. barrasso: with the financial strains on local hospital, one of the common services to be cut in rural hospitals are maternity services. we have women in wyoming having to drive over 100 miles to access care. 13 counties in wyoming don't have access to ob/gyn. counties larger than new hampshire, vermont, delaware. counties larger than those whole states. will you commit to working with my offices to address these problems in rural america? mr. kennedy: i look forward to it. sen. barrasso: another issue we talked about was the harmful biden administration rule that is bad for rural nursing homes. it is a rule that would triple the registered nurse requirements in nursing homes. there are not enough registered nurses in our state to comply with this. this would lead to nursing home closures. will you commit to work with me

to fix this serious problem that was the result of a rule that came out by the biden administration who clearly doesn't understand rural america? mr. kennedy: i think that the rule was well-intentioned. as you've said. i have heard from many rural senators that it will be a disaster for their states. these are staffing rules that require 24 hour staffing by medical professionals. some of the nursing homes in rural areas simply don't have the available personnel or the economics to be able to do that. it will mean the closure of nursing homes in rural areas across our country, which means that the parents, elderly parents will be moved a great distance from the local community and their family. we know that the single greatest driver of high quality nursing home care is the involvement, the proximity of family members. when you move that nursing

facility away from the community where the kids live you will get much worse care. although the intention was noble, it was, in reality, for rural areas at least, going to be a disaster. chair crapo: senator johnson. sen. johnson: mr. kennedy, welcome. thank you for being here. thank you for your decades long advocacy for a clean environment , for children's health. i can't say i am surprised by the hostility on the others. i am highly disappointed in it. i don't know if you remember. when you called me up and you were contemplating setting political differences aside and joining forces with president trump, i am in an area of agreement -- in an area of

agreement, addressing chronic illnesses. my first response was, bobby, this is the answer to my prayers. we need to get to the answers of this. even more, we need to heal and unify this divided nation. i am not necessarily the most optimistic guy, because we have enormous challenges facing this nation. i thought, wow, this is someone from the left, someone whom i don't agree with on many issues politically, coming together with president trump, and focusing on an area of agreement. something the american people desperately want. finding healthy answers. what has caused autism. what is causing chronic illness. mr. kennedy, i know, i think i've come to know what is in your heart. i think i know the personal and political price you paid for this decision.

i want to say publicly, i thank you for that. i truly appreciate what you are doing here. [applause] can't we come together as a nation and do this? can we? aren't you getting tired of this? i'm getting tired of this. mr. kennedy, i need to enter into the record, these are 11 letters of support signed by 63,000 people, thousands of doctors, from the american -- the association of american physicians and surgeons, the north carolina physicians and freedom group. these are americans, nonpartisan. a lot of these people, i know because i advocated with you, a lot of them are democrats.

they put their political differences aside. mr. chairman, i would like to enter this into the record. chair crapo: without objection. sen. johnson: mr. kennedy, as i have you here, i have written over 70 oversight letters to the federal health agencies under the biden administration and have basically gotten squat out of them. what we get is, for example, 50 pages of anthony fauci's emails redacted. by the way, the latest one was 17 pages. instead of issuing a health alert on the myocarditis that they knew was impacting young men early in 2021, instead of issuing an alert on the health alert network, they developed 17 pages of talking points. this was given to the public. they had to go to court. they got a new way of redacting.

they don't black things out, they just give the white pages so you don't even know what they've redacted. i have issued a subpoena to cover the information that i've requested in 70 oversight letters. my question to you as the secretary of hhs is, will you honor these requests from congress? will you make hhs transparent? mr. kennedy: my approach to hhs, as i said before, senator, is radical transparency. democrats and republicans ought to be able to come in and get information that was generated at taxpayer expense that is owned by the american taxpayer. they shouldn't get redacted documents. public health agencies should be transparent. if we want americans to restore trust in the public health agencies, we need transparency. i want to say something about what you first said.

when i launched my campaign it was about uniting americans, democrats and republicans. there is no issue that should unite us more than this chronic health epidemic. there is no such thing as republican children or democratic children. these are our kids. 66% of them are damaged.i know what a healthy kid looks like because i had so many of them in my family. i didn't know anyone with a food allergy growing up, peanut allergy. why do five of my kids have allergies? why are we seeing explosions in diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, neurological diseases, depression? all of these things related to toxicity in the environment? why can't we just agree with each other to put differences about so many issues, intractable issues, aside and say we will end this? i don't think anybody is going

to be able to do this like i am because of my peculiar experience, because i've litigated against these agencies. when you litigate against them you get a phd in corporate capture and how to unravel it. i have written six books about these agencies. i know a lot about them and i know how to fix it. there is nobody who will fix it the way that i do, because i'm not scared of vested interests. i don't care. i'm not here because i want a position or a job. i have a good life and happy family. this is something i don't need. i want to do this because we are going to fix it. the other thing is, we are attracting a caliber of people to hhs like never before in history. they are entrepreneurs. they are disrupters. they are innovators of immense talent. many are walking away for growing concerns. they are not coming there for a

position. they are coming there because they want to save our country. they are from across the political spectrum. these people approaching me for partisan issues used to be my friends. they agreed with me on environmental issues i've been working on my whole career. now they are against me because anything president trump does, any decision he makes, has to be lampooned, derided, discredited, marginalized, vilified. chair crapo: we need to move on. senator warren. sen. warren: mr. kennedy, i want to start with something i think that you and i agree on. big pharma has too much power in washington. you said that president trump asked you to "clean up corruption and conflicts." sounds great. you said you will "slam shut the revolving door between government agencies and the companies they regulate."

that also sounds great. here is an easy question. will you commit that when you leave this job you will not accept compensation from a drug company, medical device company, hospital system, or health insurer for at least four years, including as a lobbyist or board member? mr. kennedy: can you repeat the last part of the question? sen. warren: you're not going to take money from drug companies in any way, shape, or form? mr. kennedy: who, me? sen. warren: you. mr. kennedy: i am happy to commit to that. sen. warren: i figured. like i said, it is an easy question to start with. mr. kennedy: i don't think they want to give me money, by the way. [laughter] sen. warren: let's keep going. you are right to say yes because every american has the right to know that every decision you make as our number one health officer is to help them and not to make money for yourself in the future. i want to talk more about money.

i am looking at your paperwork right now. in the past two years you have raked in $2.5 million from a law firm called wisner bomb. you go online and you do commercials encouraging people to sign up for lawsuits against vaccine makers. for everyone who signs up you get paid. if they win the case you get 10% of what they win. if you bring in someone who gets 10 million dollars, you walk away with $1 million. you said that you want the american people to know that you cannot be bought. your decisions will not depend on how much money you can make in the future. he won't go to work for a drug company after you believe hhs. we both know there is another way to make money. mr. kennedy, will you also agree that you will not take any compensation from any lawsuits against drug companies while you

are secretary and for four years afterwards? mr. kennedy: i will certainly commit to that while i am secretary. i do want to clarify something because you are making me sound like a shill. sen. warren: you are the one who -- mr. kennedy: i did the science today presentation with the judge on that case to get it into court -- sen. warren: mr. kennedy, it is a simple question. you have taken in $2.5 million. i want to know if you will commit that not only will you work for drug companies, you won't go to work suing the drug companies and taking your rate out of that while you are secretary and for four years after? mr. kennedy: i will commit to not taking any fees from drug companies while i am secretary. sen. warren: i am asking about fees from suing drug companies. will you agree not to do that? mr. kennedy: you are asking me

to not sue drug companies and i'm not going to agree to that, senator. i am not going to agree to not sue drug companies or anybody. sen. warren: let's do a quick count of how as secretary of hhs, if you get confirmed, you can influence every one of those lawsuits. let me start the list. you can publish your anti-vaccine conspiracies, but this time on u.s. government letterhead. something that a jury may be impressed by. mr. kennedy: i don't understand that. sen. warren: vaccine panel who share your anti-vax views and let them do your dirty work. you can tell them to remove a particular vaccine from the vaccine schedule. you can remove vaccines from special compensation programs, which would open manufacturers to mass torts. you can make injuries eligible for compensation in venice there

is no causal evidence. you can change vaccine court processes to make it easier to bring junk lawsuits. you can turn over fda data to your friends at the law firm and they can use it however it benefited them. you can change vaccine labeling. you can change vaccine information rules. you can change which claims are compensated in the vaccine -injury compensation program. there are a lot of ways that you can influence those future lawsuits and pending lawsuits while you are secretary of hhs, and i am asking you to commit right now that you will not take a financial stake in every one of those lawsuits so that what you do as secretary will also benefit you financially down the line. mr. kennedy: i will comply with all of the ethical guidelines. sen. warren: that is not the question. mr. kennedy: senator, you are asking me not to sue vaccine -- pharmaceutical companies. sen. warren: no i am not.

mr. kennedy: that is exactly what you are doing. sen. warren: no one should be fooled here. as secretary of hhs, robert kennedy will have the power to -- and for all of his talk about follow the science and his promise that he will not interfere with those of us want to vaccinate his kids, the bottom line is the same -- kennedy can kill off access to vaccines and make millions of dollars while he does it. kids might die but robert kennedy can keep cashing in. mr. kennedy: senator, i support vaccines. i support the childhood schedule. the only thing i want is good science and that is it. sen. warren: how about saying you will not make money off what you do as secretary of hhs? chair crapo: before we go to

senator tillis i should make it clear that mr. kennedy has gone through the same office of government ethics process as every other nominee in the finance committee, this year and in previous administrations, in addition to listing his assets and items you have identified he has signed an ethics letter that has been reviewed concerning any possible conflict in light of its functions and the nominee's proposed duties and we have a letter from the office of government ethics that he has complied completely with all laws and regulations governing conflicts of interest. sen. warren: mr. chairman, point of information -- have we had a single nominee come through that has made $2.5 million off suing one of the entities it would be regulating and plans to keep

getting a take of every lawsuit in the future? have we had that before? chair crapo: i have not reviewed past documentation of every other nominee's' financial interest. i know the financial interests are attacked. that is why we have the office of government ethics and they have reviewed everything in his record and that is why -- i think and i do not know if i want to ask him to get into it -- he has listed his assets and gone through a discussion of the responsibilities under our ethics laws and has complied with all of those requirements. senator tillis? sen. tillis: how is your morning going? mr. kennedy: [laughter] so far, so good. sen. tillis: you came prepared and i'm glad you did. you addressed to my satisfaction a question about title x and the

president's -- planned parenthood. can you confirm you are 100% behind the president's approach to title x? mr. kennedy: i am 100% behind it. sen. tillis: first off, you need to understand -- i was in a judiciary hearing this morning and it is clear to me some of these nominations will be shirts and skins. no matter what you answer, they will ask you one more question so you cannot answer in the affirmative. it is the way the game is played when we have nominees like yourself. you are handling yourself well. are you a conspiracy theorist? mr. kennedy: that is a pejorative that is applied to me mainly to keep me from asking difficult questions about interests. i was told i was a conspiracy

theorist and that label applied to me because i said the covid vaccine did not prevent transmission and would not prevent infection when the government was telling americans that it would. i was saying that because i was looking at the monkey studies in the may of 2020. now everyone admits it. i was called a conspiracy because i said red dye causes cancer and now it is banned. last week, there was review published of 87 studies saying there is a direct correlation between iq loss -- i could go on for a week. sen. tillis: is there anyone you can say that "you got me," i am a conspiracy theorists. it might help for you to submit

that for the record. i was in the statehouse in north carolina before i came here and anytime i would visit elementary school, the first thing i would do was go to the trash cans in the cafeteria. what we have now is kids not eating the food because the federal government has made it something they don't want. they say it is a healthy alternative. it has processed materials and it is not attractive to them so they throw it away. the trash can is full of food they did not eat. then they go eat snacks or drink a sugar drink. the snap program -- everything you have said about the snap program i agree with. i believe we should be strict and it will make people uncomfortable and make the food manufacturers produce healthy food. we also need to look at the school health program. i was pta president 22 years ago

and my daughter's high school and i feel like we have these kids that need help. we have to guide them through a process. many of them are probably on medicaid. everyone here -- no one has admitted medicaid is not producing positive health outcomes. is that your problem with medicaid -- the program or the outcomes? mr. kennedy: the outcomes. we are spending $900 billion and our people are getting sicker every year. sen. tillis: everyone building a case for the status quo of medicaid is by extension saying they're happy with the outcomes. i think it. is unacceptable i have a question on project warp speed. there is only one member of congress who voted against it. project warp speed had cdc, fda

very much in the mix. some people think you will come in here and insert yourself into those agencies in a way that has never been done before. let's say they are a part of the future project warp speed. is it your intent to go in and do something that has never been done before based on my staff's research and insert yourself into a discussion with different agencies? mr. kennedy: no. i am not a scientist. i want to empower scientists. i want to make sure that science is unobstructed by vested or economic interests. about operation warp speed, it was an extraordinary accomplishment and demonstration of leadership by president trump. when he promoted operation warp speed he was looking at all of the different remedies, including vaccines.

and he was not looking at shutting down our country for the year, forcing people to wear masks for a year and forcing social distances that did not have any scientific basis. dr. fauci acknowledged they took it out of thin air. but all of those changed during the biden administration. it became very narrowly focused and we ended up with the highest death out of any country in the world. sen. tillis: if i can ask one more question and i think it is a one-word answer. i have heard a lot of people complaining but health care delivery, medicaid on the others of the dais. who has been responsible for health care policies over the last four years? i would like to have heard more of those at oversight hearings

over the last four years. i have not but i am glad there is an acknowledgment you are inheriting a problem that needs to be fixed. thank you. chair crapo: senator sanders? sen. sanders: thank you, chairman. mr. kennedy, thank you for being with us. i like the slogan you coined, "make america healthy again," and i strongly agree with that. despite spending two or three times per capita on health care as other nations, we have 85 million people who are uninsured or underinsured. we have chronic illnesses. our life expectancy is lower than other countries and working-class people are living six or seven years shorter lives than the top 1%. we have a problem. i will suggest some ideas i think can remedy that. last year the insurance industry

in this country made over $70 billion while at the same time 85 million americans are uninsured or underinsured. do you agree with me that the united states should join every other major country on earth and guarantee health care to all people as a human right, yes or no? mr. kennedy: senator, i cannot give you a yes or no answer to the question. sen. sanders: is health care a human right? mr. kennedy: in the way that free speech is a human right, i would say it is different. free speech does not cost anybody anything. in health care, if you smoke cigarettes for 20 years and you get cancer, you are now taking from the pool. are you guaranteed the same --

sen. sanders: i would love to talk for an hour with you. we have a few minutes left. every other country says health care whether you are poor or rich, young or old is a human right. i am not hearing you. say that you have talked about the drug companies and maybe we agree on this one. despite drug companies making over $100 billion in profits, will you support legislation that i will introduce which says that in america we should not be paying a nickel more for prescription drugs and people around the rest of the world? mr. kennedy: to equalize -- sen. sanders: not to equalize, we should not be paying more than other countries for the same drug. mr. kennedy: president trump has asked me -- i had a meeting with president trump a week ago where we showed him the charts.

sen. sanders: he knows the charts. we are paying 10 times more than europe. will you and that absurdity? mr. kennedy: in principle we should end that disparity. sen. sanders: ok, that is great. i happen to believe that climate change is real, it is an existential threat and a health care issue. donald trump thinks it is a hoax , originating in china. the question is, in your judgment, is climate change a hoax or is it real, causing devastating problems? mr. kennedy: president trump and i agreed to disagree on that issue. i believe climate change is existential. my job is to make americans healthy again. sen. sanders: you disagree with from, you do not think climate change is a hoax. is that what i'm hearing?

is that not a trick question? mr. kennedy: i answered your question. sen. sanders: ok. i will pick up on a point that was made. there is no question abortion is a divisive issue in this country. i would say a majority of the people are pro-choice. there is a minority that is pro-life. a year and a half ago you went to new hampshire, running for president and give a speech and you talked about government should not tell a woman what she can do with her own body. that is her choice. i think everyone on that side is pro-life. i think everyone here is pro-choice. i have never seen any major politician slipped on that issue quite as quickly as you did when trump asked you to become hhs secretary. tell me why you think people should have confidence in your

consistency and in your word when you really made a major u-turn on an issue in such a short time. mr. kennedy: senator, i believe -- and i have always believed -- every abortion is a tragedy. sen. sanders: you told the people of new hampshire it is their right. let me do a last question because i am running out of time. the gist of what you are trying to say today is you are pro-vaccine, you want to ask questions. you have started a group called the "children's health offense." on their website they are selling onesies, clothing for babies. one is "unvaxxed, unafraid." they sell for $26 a piece. the other one is "no vax, no

problem." you say you are pro-vaccine but your organization is making money selling a child's product to parents for $26 that casts a fundamental doubt on the usefulness of vaccines. can you tell us now -- now that you are pro-vaccine -- that you will have your organization take these products off the market. mr. kennedy: i have no power over that organization. i resigned from the board. sen. sanders: that was a few months ago. you founded that and you have power. are you supportive of this? mr. kennedy: i have nothing to do with that. sen. sanders: are you supportive of this clothing that is anti-vaccine? mr. kennedy: i am supportive of vaccines. i want good science. sen. sanders: you will not tell the organization you founded not

to continue selling that product. thank you. chair crapo: senator blackburn. sen. blackburn: thank, mr. chairman and thank you for being with us. i have no doubt you will be confirmed and you are going to do such a solid job for the people of this country. [applause] i do have several issues i wanted to talk with you about and did not have time to cover them all when we met prior to the meeting but rural health care is very important to me and the people of tennessee. 78 of our 95 counties are rural counties. we have seen hospital closures so we have focused on access in rural areas. my rural health agenda, which is bipartisan, focuses on innovation, telehealth, access points, work shortages and also

senator warner and i have together focused on making certain that we address the area wage index and do that fairly for our citizens that are in rural communities. i would like a commitment from you that when confirmed, you and your cms administrator will work with us to make certain the area wage index is balanced and it is fair to rural areas. mr. kennedy: senator, both dr. oz and myself recognize that rural health care is a crisis in this country and is catastrophic for our entire country. i talked about my commitment to rural health earlier in this hearing. the regional price points, as you know, are set by congress and not by hhs.

i will certainly -- but i know dr. oz will certainly work with you -- to make them sensible. sen. blackburn: before you came forward as the secretary -- the nominee, we had talked in years' past about over medicating youth and concerns about that and i was looking at a report from our medicaid program in tennessee and i was concerned that i saw a number that they had spent $90 million in 2024 alone on adhd. 417,000 of our children and $90 million. to me, that is heartbreaking, what is happening there. how will you prioritize oversight of prescribing practices while promoting alternative solutions such as

counseling, behavioral therapies, community-based interventions for our youth? mr. kennedy: exactly and that is the solution. 15% of american youth are on adderall or other adhd medication. we are over medicating our entire population. half the pharmaceutical drugs on earth are now sold here. 70% of the profits are from the united states even though we only have 4.2% of the world's population. a recent study found that pharmaceutical drugs are the third-largest cause of death in our country after heart attacks and cancers. they are not making us healthier. we need community health

initiatives, access to treatment, exercise,. better food. . sen. blackburn: let me talk to you about one of those access points in treatment. it highlights a problem we have in the federal medicaid law. states have been prohibited from using medicaid funds for care provided by institutions for mental disease. we refer to them as imds. psychiatric hospitals and residential treatment facilities with more than 16 beds. this is a discriminatory exclusion and a nice payment for medically necessary care based on the -- denies payment for medically necessary care. if you are confirmed, when you are confirmed, will you commit to working with me on repealing this discriminatory exclusion

and ensuring equal access to mental health care for medicaid beneficiaries? mr. kennedy: yes, senator. sen. blackburn: thank you. i have some questions. in the interest of time, i will yield back. i look forward to seeing you help make us healthy again. [applause] mr. kennedy: thank you, senator. chair crapo: senator lujan. excuse me. i made a mistake. it is senator cantwell. sen. cantwell: thank you, mr. chairman and congratulations on your nomination, mr. kennedy. i have been absent because i was in a hearing with the nominee to be commerce secretary. i will review everything you

said today and look at that diligently. one of the things i wanted to discuss with you is i represent a very big innovation state, innovation and health care specifically, like nih funding to a cancer center that help develop the hpv vaccine that has the potential to eliminate over 95% of cervical cancer. nih grants people in the state of washington $1.2 billion worth of grants. i agree with you about healthy foods but i am troubled about the medical research side of innovation and some things you have said. this issue about laying off 600 employees at nih or to "give infectious disease a break for eight years."

we have had a chance to talk about this a little bit but the most striking example is when covid hit. we had the first case in the nation. it was the fast response by the university of washington that really helped save lives. i just want to know, are you aware of how harmful these issues could be for public health? that public health in and of itself could be affected by these kind of anti-science views? mr. kennedy: senator, i have always been a science person, a pro-science person. i believe in evidence-based medicine, gold standard science. i have explained this before you came in. 600 people out of a workforce of 91,000 is pretty typical. last year alone, president biden

replaced 3000 people at hhs and 700 at nih. i said give infectious disease a break because that has been the principal preoccupation. infectious disease -- chronic disease is -- it accounts for 92% of deaths in this country and almost nothing is studied at nih about the epidemic. money is going to infectious disease. sen. cantwell: i get your point. it is an interesting point. we had to respond. the gates foundation and a cohort figured out what was wrong and we headed out break of covid that was going beyond the very first case. we had to build a fast response. i take this too, the university of washington has conducted groundbreaking study on fetal cell research.

people might not agree with this but we are making regenerative heart tissue. mr. kennedy: i will protect stem cell research. stem cell research can be done on umbilical cords and you do not need fetal tissue. sen. cantwell: you protect the laws on the books today? mr. kennedy: my job is to enforce the laws. sen. cantwell: i want to move to pbms, which are driving up drug prices. we need to get a handle on everything driving up prices and lower them. the report found pbms generate $1.4 billion from spread pricing where they can set the price, not reimburse pharmacies and and pocket the rest.

we have had bipartisan legislation to get at this. what do you think the solution is? mr. kennedy: one of the really notable achievements of this panel was the pbm legislation that put together in a bipartisan way. of the 60-odd senators i have talked to everyone of them talked about pbms and how important they were. president trump his first administration pushed a to give transparency to pbms. it got overruled during the biden administration. luckily this panel is resuscitating that. president trump is committed to fixing pbms. sen. cantwell: you believe we should pass these laws that have been proposed? mr. kennedy: i have not read the entire law so i do not know but i think we need to perform the

pbms. all of these vested interests that are draining money. from the system. sen. cantwell: someone suggested you should convene the pbms and talk to them about self-regulation. i am trying to distinguish between these people who basically are doing illegal activities -- they are creating pharmacy deserts in my state. i'm asking you whether you believe we have to legislate in this area? mr. kennedy: again, i am not being evasive, i do not know exactly what the law says. i met with the pbms, i met with pharma, my job is to meet with stakeholders. i have been meeting with stakeholders for 40 years. people i was doing. you want to hear from the other side. i support the efforts of this committee to come up with bipartisan legislation president

trump wants to get the excess profits away from the pbms and send it back to primary care, to patients in this country. sen. cantwell: i will ask you for the record to look at the legislation that came out of the commerce committee that defines the legal activities they are doing to drive up prices. mr. kennedy: in principle i support the legislation. chair crapo: thank you. let me just tell you the list as we have to move forward to the end. senator lujan will be next, followed by senator marshall, senator warnock, senator smith, senator young and senator welch. >> this is a matter of such importance. a number of my colleagues would like a second round and it would be important to offer, say, a modest amount of additional time to get into this on both sides.

i know i have some questions and i want my colleagues to have the opportunity to raise their concerns, as well. chair crapo: as i have indicated i will not do a second round. i have been very generous. i think almost every single senator has had seven minutes at least and i will give you a second. sen. wyden: i will divide my time up with my colleagues. chair crapo: you are welcome to do that. senator lujan. sen. lujan: mr. kennedy, when we met you stated to me it is not your goal to take away programs that work for americans. do you stand by the statement? mr. kennedy: yes, senator. sen. lujan: do you know how many americans rely on medicaid? mr. kennedy: about 72 million plus 7 million kids. sen. lujan: yes or no, is it

important that expecting mothers and newborns have access to health coverage? mr. kennedy: -- absolutely. sen. lujan: do you know how many babies born in this country are covered by medicaid? mr. kennedy: i would guess -- i do not know the answer. i would guess 30 million. sen. lujan: about 41%, 1.4 million babies are financed by medicaid according to statistics. yes or no, do you believe medicaid is a critical program? mr. kennedy: i believe that medicaid is a critical program but it is not working as well as it should and president trump

has asked me to make it work better. most americans are not happy with it. the premiums are too high, the deductibles are too high. everyone is getting sicker. too much money is going to the insurance industry. sen. lujan: i have a series of yes or no questions that are pretty simple. i asked for your indulgence to be able to get through them, yes or no. in new mexico -- medicaid is often measured state-by-state. it might surprise you that 90% of new mexicans on medicaid report satisfaction. 80% getting specialist care. 95% -- not to pick on any of my colleagues, louisiana, 86% of people are satisfied. 85% are satisfied with getting specialized care. i can go on state-by-state but we do not have the time.

yes or no, do you support cutting medicaid or reducing -- especially in an area you and i spoke about the federal investment in medicaid? mr. kennedy: president trump has not told me he wants to cut medicaid. he has told me to make it better. sen. lujan: do you support cutting, yes or no? let me ask you this -- mr. kennedy: i support making it better, senator. sen. lujan: if president trump asks me to cut medicaid, would you do it? mr. kennedy: that would be up to congress. sen. lujan: i will move on. do you know how many states -- mr. chairman, will you pause my time? i understand people are getting asked to leave if they stand up with science. it is to be extent -- if they

stand up with signs. mr. kennedy said we should respect everyone of the difference of opinion. we are doing our jobs. chair crapo: senator lujan, i ask the audience to be respectful. sen. lujan: i appreciate that. you know how many states will end the medicaid expansion if the federal share drops? mr. kennedy: there is 40 states that have signed on to the expansion, -- sen. lujan: it is a smaller number. nine states would have to end their expansion because of the laws they have. that is about 4 million folks across the country. new mexico, iowa and idaho, they have triggers where it would immediately have to go into effect. the reason i ask those questions is there has been a lot of conversation around medicaid. i agree we can do better and we

must do better in america but medicaid has been shown to improve health outcomes including quality of life and access to preventative care. there are areas we touched on specific to native american communities. one of the concerns i have, these programs matter to folks. you shared your passion about caring for folks. i believed that passion. my question in this area is, as you know and folks are doing research, they will check to see if medicine works on someone. if they are not included in the trial, it often does not help them. that is what the evidence shows. what are you going to do when programs are eliminated to require the inclusion of native americans in clinical trials when it comes to life-saving

medicine? mr. kennedy: i will do everything i can to make sure there are native americans in clinical trials. as i said to you when i visited your office, i spent 20% of my career working on date of issues. my family has been deeply involved with them. my family and uncle were big critics of the indian health service, failure to deliver good health results for health care on the reservations. i will bring a native in for the first time in history to my central office. all the major decisions in my office -- before he interviewed a very good candidate will have a direct impact on all the major offices. one of my priorities -- sen. lujan: i will follow up. will you commit to finalizing the congressionally mandated

guidance to increase clinical trial diversity? mr. kennedy: just repeat that again, i am sorry. sen. lujan: will you commit to mandating guidance to increasing clinical trial diversity? mr. kennedy: yes. sen. lujan: i appreciate that. will you commit to reinstating the people who were fired from this administration that have this responsibility? mr. kennedy: i cannot commit to that because i do not know who they are. i will work with you to make sure the positions are adequately staffed. sen. lujan: i will follow-up in writing because i think there is some commonality and answers matter so i would like to get those as timely as possible. the last thing i will say is one of the conversations i had before this hearing was with a family i have been working with to work with my republican colleagues when it comes to

autism and federal programs and making a difference in lives. what i am asking now, mr. chairman, is unanimous consent to enter into the record an article from autism speaks. i will note that the first sentence states, vaccines do not cause autism. thank you, i yield back. chair crapo: without objection. before we move on, we have had a request for a quick restroom break. we will take a five-minute recess. i am sorry to the remaining five or six senators who must wait but we will have a quick break and we will be back as soon as we can. [applause] >> we love

chair crapo: would everyone please take your seats. this committee will continue and come out of recess and go back into session. i would like to tell everyone the remaining list. senator marshall, senator warnock, senator smith, senator young and senator welch.

i indicated i would give another five minutes to senator wyden. i understand he has distributed that five minutes to a few other senators so we will have a few quick questions and then we will proceed. i would like to thank the audience. we had some outbursts earlier but i would like to thank the audience for being respectful and encourage the audience to continue being respectful as we conclude the hearing. sen. marshall: thank you, chairman. obesity, diabetes, heart disease. obesity, diabetes, heart disease account for probably 80% of health challenges in america. you know how many times i heard my friends across the aisle mentioned those? i do not know if we have lost the forest for the trees. vaccines are a critical issue. i do not know how mr. kennedy's position to be any more clear

that he will support the vaccines, the science, empowerment to parents and their doctors to make these choices. 60% of americans have a chronic disease. there is an epidemic of chronic diseases across the country. this make america healthy again movement is palpable to me. it started on the campaign trail in 2020 when moms i had never met and were not involved in the political process came up to me and said i want to make these choices about my children with my doctor, not the federal government. moms, dads, grandparents across the country grab me and say, why do 20% of our children, why are they on a prescription drug? mr. kennedy, what is your prescription to make america healthy again? what does that look like to you? mr. kennedy: thank you, senator marshall.

we are having epidemics of all these chronic illnesses. autoimmune diseases, neurological diseases, allergic diseases, obesity. when my uncle was president, 3% of americans were obese. today, 74% of americans are obese or overweight. no other country has anything like this. in japan, the obesity rate is still 3%. epidemics are not caused by genes. genes may provide a vulnerability but you need an environmental toxin. something is poisoning the american people. the primary culprits is a changing food supply switching to chemically processed foods.

we have 10,000 ingredients in our foods and the europeans have only 400. if you buy mcdonald's french fries in our country, there are 11 ingredients. in europe, there are only three. if you buy froot loops in our country, they are loaded with food dyes. same company makes the same product with different ingredients for canada and europe. we do not have good science on all of these things. that is deliberate. that is a deliberate choice, not to study the things that are truly making us sick. they are not only contributing to chronic disease but mortality from infectious disease. we need to get a handle on this because if we don't, it is an existential threat. because we get one of these culture war issues we have been

talking about today wrong. it will be destroyed if we continue down this trajectory of chronic disease. we need to fix our food supply and that is number 1. sen. marshall: thank you, mr. kennedy. i share your concerns with processed foods. on the other end of this is farmers and ranchers back home. would you share your compassion about farmers and ranchers? they do not dictate the market. they grow with the market is wanting them to grow. mr. kennedy: senator hawley told me the other day, his brother-in-laws are all farmers. he said four out of five have parkinson's disease. that kind of cluster we are seeing across farm country. cancers, autoimmune diseases, obesity, etc.

we cannot export american food to europe because the europeans will not take our food. that is not good for farmers. we are also destroying our soil because some chemicals farmers use destroyed it and that causes erosion. you cannot get water infiltration. water pools up. it is estimated if we continue doing these processes, only 60 harvests are left before the soil is gone. farmers are using seeds and chemicals that over the long-term are costing them and us. what we need to do is support the farmers -- we need the farmers as partners if we are going to make this work. i do not want a single farmer to

go out of business under our watch. if i am privileged to be confirmed, i do not regulate farms. that is under usda. but i want to partner with all of my decisions with the usda and the farming community to make sure we do not lose more farmers in this country. that we also transition -- we offer and incentivize transitions to regenerative agriculture and to bless chemically intensive. by the way, i have also met with the chemical industry and the fertilizer companies and they want to do the same thing. i think we are on the trajectory to do that and we need to incentivize initiatives to accelerate that trajectory. sen. marshall: the great news is farmers in kansas are selling

products to europe. today's region interim practices, soil health, although things -- all of those things are priorities. we need to be more widespread. if i can wrap up my remarks. going back to the big picture -- 60% of americans have a chronic disease. i believe you are not just one of 300 million people, i believe you are the person to lead hhs to make america healthy again. god has a divine purpose for you and i look forward to working with you to make america healthy again. mr. kennedy: thank. [applause] sen. warnock: thank you so much, chairman and ranking member, it is great to be here. mr. kennedy, welcome to you and your family. thank you for meeting with me a few days ago. i would like to follow up if i

might with some of the issues we discussed in my office. i want to talk to you first about the cdc, or the centers for disease control and prevention. i am proud of the work this edc does. i am proud it is located in georgia, with more than 10,000 employees in my state. if confirmed, you would be the cabinet secretary over this edc, representing -- over the cdc. do you agree that the cdc's work is critical to georgia, critical for our country and the health of the entire world? mr. kennedy: yes, senator. sen. warnock: my predecessor would have agreed with that. he was a fierce advocate for the

cdc. this edc is an agency filled with hard-working, dedicated public health servants. they wake up every single day, working to keep us safe. we do not think enough about their work because it is easy not to celebrate the folks protecting you from that which does not appear because of the work they are doing. grateful of the work that the cdc employees do, some are members of my church. i saw the commitment when i visited the cdc just last summer. mr. kennedy, you have compared the cdc's work to nazi death camps, sexual abusers in the catholic church. you have said many of them belong -- this is a direct quote -- many of them belong in jail. to me those are disturbing

characterizations of the cdc workers trying to keep the public safe every single day. as you are presented as the nominee for this position, do you stand by the statements you made in the past or do you retract those previous statements? mr. kennedy: senator, i do not believe i ever compared the cdc to nazi death camps. i support the cdc. it is not my job to harm or dismantle the cdc. sen. warnock: you retract those statements? mr. kennedy: i'm not retracting that, i never said it. sen. warnock: i have a transcript. it says at the institution cdc and the vaccine program, it is more important than the children it is supposed to protect. it is the same reason we had a

pedophile scandal in the catholic church. people were able to convince themselves the institution of the church was more important than these little boys and girls who were being raped. that is pretty provocative language. you said in another statement, to me, this is like a nazi death camp. let me finish, i am reading your words. what happened to these kids? 1 in 31 boys in this country, their minds are being robbed from them. mr. kennedy: i was not comparing the cdc to nazi death camps, i was comparing the injury rate to other atrocities. of course i would not compare the cdc to nazi death camps, the extent that any statement i made has been interpreted that way, i do not agree with that.

in 2003, the united states congress government oversight committee ended an over a year investigation of the cdc and used almost the same language. they said just one branch of the cdc had put institutional self interest and pharmaceutical profits ahead of the welfare and health of american children. that was a conclusion by congress. sen. warnock: i am asking you because you are the nomination for hhs. it sounds like you stand by the statements. mr. kennedy: my objective is to support the cdc. there is nothing i will do that will harm cdc. i want to make sure our science is gold standard science. it is free from the same -- the

same committee, the panel within the cdc, i think 97% of the people on it had conflicts. i think we need to end those conflicts and make sure scientists are doing unobstructed science. sen. warnock: i want to enter this statement into the record without objection. chair crapo: without objection. sen. warnock: hhs and the cdc were gagged and kept from communicating information. can you answer yes or no, do you agree with that action? mr. kennedy: i was not consulted on it but that is pretty much standard operating procedure for incoming administrations. sen. warnock: so you agree with the action that gagged hhs and cdc from communicating important

health information? mr. kennedy: no public health and only non-essential travel and mass communications were temporarily suspended pending the confirmation of a new hhs secretary. this is standard operating procedure. sen. warnock: i do not think what we have seen over the last several days is standard operation for a new administration. we are seeing unprecedented actions. you agree with it. last night, members of the cdc and other federal employees were actually invited to resign -- these buyouts -- i got text messages from people who work for the cdc who got that note. it is really important. my experience is when you send out the kind of note, folks to resign are the ones you least

likely want to see resign. they have other options, they are gifted, they have a lot of expertise and they have options. a lot of them are doing this work because of their patriotism and their commitment. do you agree with the buyouts that were presented to cdc employees? mr. kennedy: i agree that the vast majority of the scientists and experts at the cdc are patriots of government service. i do not think anyone will resign -- sen. warnock: ok, you agree with the buyouts. in our meeting i asked you to confirm your support for the affordable care act. you also mentioned you and president trump want to fix the aca by making premiums more affordable. can you answer me yes or no, as i do not have a lot of time, did you know that tax credits that help families afford health insurance and save georgians an

average of $531 per month are set to expire at the end of the year? mr. kennedy: i do. chair crapo: we need to move on. sen. warnock: do you support extending these credits so americans can afford health care? mr. kennedy: congress needs to make its own decisions. sen. warnock: you say i am running out of time but i am having trouble getting the witness to answer yes or no to eight yes or no question. chair crapo: you are almost at nine minutes. sen. warnock: i need him to answer yes or no. mr. kennedy: i will not answer yes or no to a question that does not involve a yes or no answer. chair crapo: we need to move on. sen. warnock: the fact you find it difficult to answer basic questions is deeply troubling to me,deeply troubling to me.

thank you very much. mr. kennedy: i've been in court all over the country. sen. warnock: mr. chairman, you told me i'm out of time. he continues to filibuster, even though i'm out of time. chair crapo: thank you. senator smith. sen. smith: thank you. i don't have a question for you on abortion. i think my colleagues on both sides of the aisle have covered this. i can respect people with different views, but it is hard for me to respect people who won't give a straight answer come on this issue in particular. mr. chair, i want to note that i understand antichoice advocates have set in these hearing, they are looking for him to provide reassurance that he's on their side, and i'm not hearing that. i think most americans are looking for some hint that the decisions people make about

abortions should be personal and private, and i'm not hearing that, either. to make it worse, the answers that you have given tell me that the trump administration is more than willing to restrict or even ban medication abortion, without a single act of congress, and even in states where abortion is legal. what is clear to me is that you and president trump are dangerous to women's access to mifepristone. having said that, i want to move to a different topic. mr. kennedy, i appreciate senator cornyn's questions about mental and behavioral health, something i care a lot about. i know and understand your mental health challenges, as i've i. and i agree that the mental health crisis in this country is a crisis. let me ask you, in 2023 and again in 2024, you blame school shootings on antidepressants. you said, "there is no time in

american history or human history that kids were going to shoot schools and shooting their classmates. it really started happening coterminous with the introduction of these drugs, with prozac and with other drugs." do you believe them as you said, that antidepressants because school shootings. mr. kennedy: i don't think anybody can answer that question. sen. smith: so your answer is? mr. kennedy: i said it should be studied along with other culprits, social media. but i would never make, because there is no science on that subject. sen. smith: well, there is, senator -- excuse me, mr. kennedy. the science shows there's no link between school shootings and antidepressants, and in fact, most school shooters will not even treated with antidepressants, and of those that were, there's no evidence of association. mr. kennedy: with hip of, nobody knows. -- hippa rules, nobody knows.

sen. smith: mr. kennedy, you think that antidepressants are dangerous? mr. kennedy: listen, i'm not going to hhs, if i'm privileged to be confirmed, to oppose any preconceived ideas i may have. i just want to act with science. sen. smith: so you are not saying that they aren't dangerous, which means they could be dangerous. you described americans to take mental health medication as "addicts" and they should be sent to wellness farms. you said they should be sent. mr. kennedy: i said it should be available to them. i did not say they should be sent. sen. smith: you said those on antidepressants are like addicts. i can provide that to the chair. mr. kennedy: i know people, including members of my family, who had much worse times than they did, this whole period --

and it is really on the label. sen. smith: i have some experience with this myself, mr. kennedy, when i was a young woman, and i was struggling with depression, i'm, thankfully, i had the resources to help me get through it, including a new generation of ssri uptake re-inhibitors, which helped me to clear my mind, give me back on track to be a mom, a wife, and a happy person. i'm grateful for that therapy. i think everyone should have access to that care. your job as secretary is to expand access to care, not spread lies and misinformation. the things that you say, mr. kennedy, they live on. they have impacts, and, you know, we are having this conversation at the same moment that my republican colleagues are looking at how to save money

anyway they can, so they want to cut medicaid. let's think about this, because, should you be confirmed, you would be responsible for cms that provides mental and behavioral health care to millions of americans. close to 40% of folks on medicaid have a behavioral health condition. you would be part of this administration that would be looking to cut medicaid. so, mr. kennedy, these statements you have made linking antidepressants to school shootings, they reinforce the stigma that people who experience mental health every day face every single day, and i'm very concerned that this is another example, as you are a record of sharing false and misleading information that actually really hurts people. mr. kennedy: you are mischaracterizing my statement. sen. smith: i'm only putting into the record what you said. mr. kennedy: i'm happy you had a good experience on ssri's.

many americans have. others have not. sen. smith: that would be between then and their physicians come and offer hhs to put out misinformation about the dangers of ssri's and other antidepressant medication, spreading the stigma and the fear that we are actually trying to overcome. mr. kennedy: you think physicians when they make that decision ought to access good science? sen. smith: of course they do. and to your point, that you made when you made these statements, it was not based on good science. i don't know what it was based on. mr. kennedy: i was saying these are potential culprits, coterminous. i named other things like video games, social media, i sent ssri's, they have a black box warning, warning of suicide. sen. smith: mr. chair, i will submit to the chair of the information i have about what mr. kennedy has said linking antidepressants to school shootings. thank you. chair crapo: senator young.

sen. young: thank you, mr. chairman. good to see you, mr. kennedy. two follow up on that spirited exchange, in talking with you and reading about your vision for the department, you said one of your goals is to return public health agencies to the gold standard of scientific review. you've alluded to the gold standard and number of times today. i'm going to give you an opportunity, uninterrupted, but hopefully not too expensive, to tell me and others what you mean by this gold standard. mr. kennedy: the gold standard means real scientific research, with replication of studies, which very rarely happens now at nih. we ought to give at least 20% at nih to replication. we should make sure that all the science is published with raw data. we should make sure the peer

reviews are also published. and i will give you a quick example, 20 years ago, scientists did a study on alzheimer's, which they said was caused by amyloid plaque. after that, nih shut down studies of any other hypothesis. 20 years later, we know that those studies were fraudulent. nih has funded 800 studies on a fraudulent hypothesis, and we've lost 20 years figuring out a cure for alzheimer's. that is just one example i can give you. we need to end that. we need to end the old boy system. if you need to have replicated both science and be completely transparent. sen. young: all right. thank you, sir. in recent years, particularly during the covid pandemic, there's been a lot of skepticism about our public health institutions. some of this, i would say, is

warranted, but it has now created a precise if -- a pervasive lack of trust from the public, that these institutions are acting in bad faith or failing to act with objective criteria. failing, in short, to act in the best interest of the public. if confirmed, mr. kennedy, how will you work to regain the public's trust? i suspect it will take some time come in these important public health institutions. mr. kennedy: i'm for radical transparency. the reason people don't trust public health agencies is because they have not been trustworthy. an example of covid. at the beginning of covid, everybody was rushing to get the vaccine. we had over 90% vaccination uptake. cdc' mosts recent recommendation is that americans take the ace booster.

only 20% of americans are complying. that means 77% of americans no longer trust cdc come and that is the problem. sen. young: yes, sir. in the absence of full information, i think i agree with you, but i want your response. might it make sense to share that absence of full information with the american people, that uncertainty? i think one of those things, by observation and experience that i saw during the pandemic, we had certain prominent doctors appear on television and indicate, no, you absolutely must not wear a mask. two weeks later, yes, you must wear a mask. but they were certain, and they even demonize people for not following the latest science, knowing there's a high level of uncertainty in the science. what a measure of humility, and as you say, radical transparency, demonstrates humility, help rebuild trust over a period of years? mr. kennedy: absolutely.

we need to tell americans what we don't know. we need to make sure the studies with a null hypothesis are also published, and that is not happen. sen. young: sir, i think you are right why health care costs are so expensive in the first place. chronic disease, 90% goes toward managing it, as you say in your opening statement. it is not in the main because of waste, fraud, and abuse. it's not in the name because we have greedy executives, innovative world-class companies. it's not in the name because we have not yet adopted an unsustainable medicaid for all scheme. it's because of this. so i'm encouraged that you intend to make that a point of emphasis as it pertains to your future leadership. i will say, with respect to

covid, it's not over for a lot of americans. it's not over. i know the "mission accomplished" banner was convenient for the last administration, but as we continue to navigate the ongoing impacts of the covid pandemic, we have many individuals here in the united states and around the world who are suffering from long-term health effects that significantly impact their quality of life, work, and daily activities, and they been largely ignored. funding for long covid research was appropriated by congress in december of 2020, followed by additional funding directed by the biden administration in february 2024. patient groups and industry publications have criticized the slow pace of clinical trial design and enrollment. if confirmed, will you collaborate with health care providers, researchers, and affected communities to better understand and mitigate long covid's impact? yes or no, please. mr. kennedy: absolutely, senator. 60 million americans. sen. young: will you commit to

prioritizing long covid research and integrate this work in broader health care policies, yes or no? mr. kennedy: mr. kennedy: yes. sen. young: patient experts and publications have raised concerns about existing long covid funding being spent on observational research in particular, criticism was directed toward recover funding being used to duplicate existing findings, instead of finding trials for potential treatment or diagnostic. if confirmed, mr. kennedy, will you work with congress so that going forward, long covid funding will be directed primarily toward trial or novel research directions and not replicating existing observational research? yes or no? mr. kennedy: absolutely, senator, with enthusiasm. sen. young: thank you so much. if confirmed, how will you create a balance between your personal priorities of chronic disease and healthy lifestyle and the ongoing critical work of the department in areas that are

focused on incentivizing and advancing innovation in modern medicine and pharmaceutical discovery? mr. kennedy: i think innovation is going to be the key to public health, and we have a unique opportunity, because of ai, because of telemedicine, and because of the quality of people that are now coming to hhs, to actually save public health. it is all going to rely on innovation, and i don't want to do anything that inhibits or impairs the pace of innovation. sen. young: that is encouraging. from approving ai algorithms to determining medicare coverage, we certainly need more innovation, and we need good people in the department to assist with that effort. i will follow-up with a question about how you're going to attract and retain good people. thank you, chairman. chair crapo: sorry to shut you down earlier than the others, senator young.

we are against a vote deadline feud we have one more senator who gets his full time. we hope you will keep it as close to time as you can, senator welch. and if we can do that, we can get over to vote before they call the vote on the floor. sen. welch: thank you very much. thank you, mr. kennedy. as you know, i'm a big -- great reference to your family, from massachusetts. when i got out of college, i was in the first class of robert commit of the fellows, the memorial -- robert kennedy fellows, the memorial created by your family to honor your father come at the west side of chicago. and i certainly admire your energy and your effort here and desire to serve. you know, there are a couple of things that are really important here. this is not just about a debate on vaccines.

it is a debate about qualifications, experience, and priorities as to the person that will head health and human services. and it is not just about what your answers are today or what the questions are. it obviously has a lot to do with your whole record and your whole history. your sister, in her letter -- pardon me, your cousin in her letter said you've always been charismatic, able to attract others who strengthen your personality, willingness to take risks and break rules. the question i fundamentally have is whether there is this willingness to disrupt and maybe break rules is going to be dangerous and disruptive. the character questions we did not go into here, but there's some sketchy things you've acknowledged. your history with caroline. you've gotten over that.

but the incidents, i think concerned, the question whether the stability is there to be in charge of this major organization. that is compounded by my concern that you don't have any experience managing a large organization. you don't have any experience in government. so those are things that have to be taken into account. but the issue for me is also a priority. a lot of engagement on health, you actually disagree come as i understand, president trump, bout operation warp speed. i think president trump deserves a lot of credit for operation warp speed. he knew we had to get a vaccine. other issues about a mask and whether you should wear it, whether when you got your groceries, the bag had to be left outside. remember that in the very beginning? those are incidental to the core question that the president believed, we had to have a vaccine. you contested that.

that worries me. that really deeply worries me. senator cassidy ask you questions about our health care system. i happen to believe that our health care system is profoundly broken, and it is not just about the chronic illnesses. that is about our diet. that is about our exercise. but we are getting premium increases and vermont, 20% a year, 25% a year, and it is busting the bank for taxpayers, it is busting the bank for our employers who care about having health insurance they can provide to their employees. senator cassidy ask you a couple of questions about how you would reform medicaid, and i did not hear an answer. you mentioned that you thought medicare advantage was good. you have a good plan. no focus on what an incredible rip off was reported in the "wall street journal" by united

health care, which was marketing medicare advantage and then paying doctors and nurses where they had assignments essentially to over diagnose illnesses that did not exist, so they made billions and billions of dollars. and i see nothing coming out of the trump administration, and i see nothing coming out of your advocacy that is going after what is a rampant abuse by the insurance companies and overcharging people and not doing their job. by the way, the united health care people, when they did that, they overdiagnosed, and when the person really got sick, they dumped them. that is a broken health care system. you spend the most and get the least. and i think there should be collected anger about this on both sides, because all of our people are dependent on the health care system. and you're going to be working for a president who is on a lawless rampage right now, ok?

he has done something reckless with the pardons to these cop beaters. i'm appalled by that. but that is just reckless. that is not illegal. right now, the medicaid website went down. he's impounded money, so the community health centers that senator warner was talking about are up in the air as to what they can do. do you believe that a president can impounded money that has been appropriated by congress? mr. kennedy: senator, let me answer my question about medicare first. i have defended that program, the insurance companies, or the pdm's. i understand that is a huge problem. sen. welch: and i don't have time. i've got to get over to vote. mr. kennedy: you've asked me

five questions. you got to give me a chance to answer one of them. chair crapo: please be brief. mr. kennedy: if i get confirmed, general counsel, the first time in history, a former prosecutor prosecuted the biggest medicare fraud in the state of west virginia. i brought in a prosecutor for the job instead of a bureaucrat precisely to address the important issues you raise here. the only reason i did not talk about them before is because i was not asked about them. i agree with you 100%. sen. welch: what about the president impounding money? mr. kennedy: you are saying that is illegal? sen. welch: that is correct. mr. kennedy: my job is to uphold the constitution. i'm going to take an oath to uphold the constitution, and i won't administer the law and uphold the constitution -- and i will administer the law and uphold the constitution.

sen. wyden: mr. chairman, i believe we have five minutes, i will take one and give one to each of my four colleagues that remains. chair crapo: alright kid we are going to vote. they are going to call it in eight minutes. we have very little time. sen. wyden: ok. two hours ago, colleagues, i asked mr. kennedy to reconcile his many and i vaccine statements with his handful of pro-vaccine statements. instead, he gave us a word salad and duct the issue. the same was true come mr. kennedy come up with respect to measles, where you wrote a book playing down the threat of measles, even though american families are very concerned about it, and families are still morning in samoa. my last question would be that mr. kennedy said today was not really about him, and i just want to tell him, it is all about you, because i find your

presentation to be both untrustworthy and unprepared, because my colleagues have been seeing back and forth between medicare and medicaid, and it is not clear which program. you are using when so i want colleagues to know there's a lot more information to learn about mr. kennedy before we go. i'm going to urge that for my colleagues on both sides of the aisle, to not make decisions on the basis of this session, and i thank you for the additional time. my next minute to senator whitehouse, senator warren. sen. whitehouse: there's been a lot of conversations about late-term abortions here, and i just want to make clear what rhode island ob/gyn doctors describe as what is almost always happening when a late-term abortion is needed. it is a child birth gone wrong. the family has painted the room, they have bought the crib, maybe

even decided on the baby's name, and had gone to the hospital to welcome the new baby into their family in what is supposed to be a happy event. and then things went wrong. then the alarms started p inging, the lights started flashing, the medical professionals started rushing in, and the question became, who lives and who dies? the mom's life is often at risk, and she may have other children she needs to care for. the baby's life may be at risk, and one or both may die. in that environment, the doctors and the family own that decision. government has no place in that

room at that point, and i think we need to understand, when this late-term abortion gets bandied about, what you are dealing with is a tragedy that is happening to a family who wanted that child and has suddenly been confronted with a moment in which they have to make what is probably going to be the worst decision of their lives. and to try to shove the state legislature into that room is really offensive, really morally wrong, and i just want to make very clear what rhode island ob/gyn's tell me is the situation when these procedures have to be deployed. chair crapo: senator warren. sen. warren: thank you, mr. chairman, mr. kennedy, i went to ask about your role in the 2019 a measles outbreak of samoa. in july 20 18, 2 children died immediately after receiving a measles vaccine that nurses had

mistakenly mixed with a muscle relaxant. the nurses get charged with manslaughter, but vaccination rates go down. i asked about this, in my office, and you told me flatly that you are to samoa had nothing to do with vaccinations. we now know that is not true could i have the documentation. you met with the prime minister. you talked about vaccinations. you met with an anti-vaccine influencer, who described the meeting is "profoundly monumental for this movement." so what happened? vaccinations go down, there is a measles outbreak, and children start dying. but you double down. you didn't give up. just four days after the prime minister declared a state of emergency, 16 people already dead, you sent a letter to him promoting the idea that the children had died not from measles but from, quote,

"defective vaccines," launched the idea that a measles vaccine caused these tests. you are a very influential man. in fact, you are called the leader of the "disinformation dozen." unicef and w.h.o., the world health organization, investigated this. they said the claims are false. it is not biologically possible way you claim, and yet ultimately more than 70 people died because they did not get vaccines. so my question is, do you accept even a scintilla, even a sliver of responsibility for the drop in vaccinations and the subsequent deaths of more than 70 people? anything you would do different? mr. kennedy: no, absolutely not. after the two incidents in which children died in 2015 and 2018,

20 15 was from the measles vaccine at the general hospital. the government of samoa banned the measles vaccine after 2018. i arrived in july of the next year. sen. warren: mr. chairman, understanding that you wanted to hold us to a minute, i don't get to present all the facts of documentation i've got. how about if we just decide to make entries for the record on exactly what the record shows about mr. kennedy's participation? and i think he's answered the yes or no question. chair crapo: senator warren, we will do that. mr. kennedy come into all the senators, every senator knows that following this hearing, they will be able to ask you questions off the record, and he will be able to put answers back on the record. so please give that answer. i apologize that we are shutting you off from giving a full response right now.

senator smith. and we are way over time. sen. smith: thank you, mr. chair. mr. kennedy, you said you want to give infectious disease a break for a a few years for my question for you, the avian flu, it has spread to dairy cows, and there are now 67 confirmed human cases and one death. mr. kennedy, do you intend to give research on bird flu a break? mr. kennedy: i intend to develop appropriate resources for the pandemic. that is part of my job. sen. smith: what you think is causing avian influenza? mr. kennedy: the h1n1 virus. sen. smith: that's good to hear. i will submit this was a record because we don't have time, mr. kennedy has questioned the causes of germs causing -- the basis of germs causing diseases. i will submit that for the record. chair crapo: senator warnock, one minute.

sen. warnock: i like the way you said that to a baptist preacher. it's my understanding you support work requirements and medicaid. in 2020, president trump approved a proposal from georgia state leaders to jump through a number of owners, bureaucratic hoops and fill out even more paperwork to verify work and get assets. as someone who represents a state that is not expanded medicaid, because of this waiver, the federal government spent $70 billion on george's medicaid waiver. 82% of that went to administrative costs. the point that making is the folks are there insisting they need to work. 90% of those folks are working. they are caregivers, or they have a disability. let me give you one example. a woman i think of all the time, her name is heather, she's a traveling nurse from dalton, georgia who falls into the medicaid coverage gap. heather experience a series of small strokes, leaving her unable to work full-time.

she has dedicated her life to caring for patients, but now she can't afford her own medical care, out-of-pocket costs, because she does not make enough to qualify for tax credits to buy private insurance. what does heather need? does she need work requirements? or does she need access to health care so she can finally get healthy and get back to work? mr. kennedy: the individual that you described would need health care and not a work requirement. sen. warnock: thank you. chair crapo: thank you. and we are done with the questioning. now, mr. kennedy, i apologize to you coming to the audience, and to all of my colleagues, t floor that they're going to close in about 3 minutes. i want to thank you for appearing before this committee. you have been accessible to the members and staff on both sides of the aisle of the finance committee throughout a rigorous process. and i want the whole world to know that you spent hours on in meetings answering questions

outside of this hearing and providing documents and responses on issue after issue after issue. you've gone through the most thorough vetting process that any committee in this congress puts anybody through. and i think that you have come through. well and deserve to be confirmed. i would like to remind my colleague, colleagues that the deadline for submitting any questions for the record is 5 p.m. today, 5 p.m. today. and mr. kennedy, we ask that you respond to those questions as quickly as you possibly can. with that, i'm going to leave you in this room and run over to vote. this hearing will be adjourned. i still encourage the audience to be polite and respectful, no matter what side of the issues you may be on. and mr. kennedy, i look forward to working with you. thank you, mr. chairman. adjourn.

robert f kennedy jr. continues to talk to senators, has his nomination to be the next hhs secretary is considered. earlier he testified before the seteinance committee while later today he'll appear before the senate health committee. watch live cere of that starting at 10 a.m. eastern online at c-span doors or with c-an. now, our fe deo app. at c-span's washington journal,

our live forum involving you to discuss the latest issues and government, politics and public policy from washington, d.c. and across the country. coming up, this morning, bobby cogan of the center for american progress will discuss the trump administration and rescinding a federal aid freeze. and then brian blaise of paragon health institute will review the top health care priorities for the trump administration. c-span's washington journal. join the conversation live at seven eastern this morning on c-span, c-span now or online at c-span dot org. this morning, president trump's nominee for director of national intelligence, tulsi gabbard, will be on capitol hill taking questions about her nomination. ms. gaard has served in the ay national guard and army reserves since 2003. sh also represented hawaii in congress as a democrat and competedor the 2020 democratic presidential nomination, but then switched to the republican party in 2024, becoming an outspoken supporter of the trump

campaign. watch the senate select committee on ielligence hearing live at 10 a.m. eastern on c-span. c-span now our free mobile app or online at c-span dot org. american history tv saturdays on c-span two exploring the people and events that tell the american story. this weekend, at 3 p.m. eastern, we'll bring you the military commissioning ceremony for harriet tubman, given posthumously by the maryland national guard. maryland governor west more also spoke at the event at 5:30 p.m. eastern. michael tackett looks back on the career and legacy of kentucky senator mitch mcconnell, who stepped down as senate republican leader at the end of the 118 congress. mr. tackett is the deputy washington, d.c. bureau chief for the associated press and author of a new biography on senator mcconnell titled the price of power. and at 7 p.m. eastern, american history tv begins a new series looking at the first 100 days of past presidential terms.

this week, we focus on the early months of president george washington's first term in 1789, including the establish moment of the office of the president, the formation of a cabinet and the first judicial appointments. then at 8 p.m. eastern, on lectures in history, the college of william and mary lecturer amy stallings discusses the history of the 1607 jamestown settlement in virginia and efforts over the four centuries to preserve and remember the first permanent english settlement in the americas. exploring the american story. watch american history tv saturday on c-span two and find a full schedule on your program, guide or watch online any time at c-span mortgage history. in remarks following the trump administration's decision to rescind the federal aid freeze previously issued by the office of management and budget, senate democratic leader chuck schumer told reporters that president trump should resci