ok >. [gavel bangs] echo the committee to order. i want to welcome everyone to the first hearing of the committee this congress. i am excited to assume the role of chair and serve as a voice for our small businesses. the purpose of today's hearing is to consider president trump's nominee to lead the small business administration, former senator kelly loeffler. i would like to welcome you all here today, and thank you for your willingness to serve. thank you very much, senator. i am also delighted to welcome the committee's new ranking member, senator markey, he has been an esteemed member of the committee for nearly 12 years. we both recognize the importance of our nation's small businesses deadly innovation, and i am

excited to continue the bipartisan working relationship of our committee. i would also like to welcome back our returning members, and provide warm welcome to our new members to the committee. senators kurtis, justice, custard and shift. i am looking forward to working with everyone, and i expect a very productive term where we focus on the most pressing issues facing small businesses, including tax and regulatory relief, to ensure our entrepreneurs thrive. just to give a quick run off show, i'm going to make a brief opening statement and i will turn to ranking member ed markey to do the same. following that, we have senator scott and senator britt who will introduce our nominee. then we will administer the oath which is required. after the oath, senator leffler

will be recognized for an opening statement followed by questions from our members alternating between each side. i now recognize myself for five minutes for purposes of an opening statement. senator leffler. as i already said, welcome to the committee and thank you for your willingness to serve. i greatly appreciate the time you spent meeting with me and my colleagues prior to this hearing. i want to take a minute to recognize some of your family here supporting you today. first, your husband, jeff. thank you, jeff, for being here. next, your brother brian, and his family who i understand traveled from washington, d.c. from their farm in illinois. also your parents, don and linda who are watching from florida today. we appreciate you all making the trip here and tuning into this hearing. as a former member of this buddy, you understand the importance of the advise and consent process. i appreciate you have fully

embraced of the committee's standard. the extensive vetting of your background in advance of today's hearing. as a successful businesswoman it's a abundantly clear that you truly know what it takes to be an entrepreneur. throughout your career you have risen through the ranks of multiple companies due to your determination and grit and a house divided many successful businesses yourself. you understand what it means to be overrun by washington's bureaucratic overreach, and government must instead get out of business's away so it can thrive. a is excited for your leadership. the committee has assumed several letters of support for senator leffler's nomination. the mission of the spa is to aid small businesses to ensure economic prosperity and competition.

traditionally, sba programs fall into three main brackets, counseling, contracting, and access to capital. while s.b.a. at once may have been characterized as a small agency, covid's small business programs made sba a household name as the agency received a whopping 1.1 trillion dollars in taxpayer funding to assist small businesses during the pandemic. with that funding came big responsibilities, and i remain concerned the sba under the prior administration failed to live up to its mission. i believe substantial reforms must be made to get the sba back in shape and that it will require strong leadership. the biden administration decided to turn a blind eye to covid fraud and delinquencies, refusing to properly collect outstanding debt, and fraudulent funds, which has huge implications for the taxpayer. reports have indicated sba

charged-off about $18.6 million worth of idle loans in fiscal year 2024. not once during the biden administration was the sba able to provide an accounting of their loans receivable and loan guarantees, which meant that the government accountability's hasn't been able to even issue a financial audit of the agency since fy 2020. sba also completely mismanaged and misinformed congress last year regarding its disaster loan account, resulting in a shortfall lasting 66 days, an acceptable failure for the disaster victims in north carolina, south carolina, georgia, virginia, and florida. i do appreciate that once the account was funded, staff walked around the clock, including over the holidays to get the money out to disaster victims, but i never went to see that the

tuition unfold again while. sba is failing, it also appears that it's workforce continues to stay at home. while it's more than 40 2000 square-foot washington, d.c. headquarters sits empty. the gao found that even if everyone did show up to work in person, the sba's building space would still only be 67 percent utilized, which is a complete width of taxpayer money -- waste of taxpayer money. which is what it introduced a bill to relocate the workforce to the sba district offices across the country and cut 30% of office space. the sba has been completely out of touch with the real world challenges of entrepreneurs and while the biden administration to simultaneously let sba employees stay home, they also added positions in washington, d.c. while stripping offices in iowa, new hampshire, utah, and other

states. i would like to work with you, senator lefler, on ways to ensure sba is effectively utilizing its personnel and ensuring that small businesses and all parts of america are able to access sba programs if they need them. i have detailed these concerns and others regarding the mess you have to clean up from the biden administration, and potential landmines you may encounter in a letter to president trump on day one of his administration. i ask unanimous consent to enter this letter into the record. without objection, so i ordered. in iowa, main street is in trouble, and i hear from colleagues that this is true in states across america. small businesses are the lifeblood of our rural communities, and for too long under the biden administration they have been cursed with red tape and woke program requirements with no one caring about how that affects the

day-to-day operations. i see a great opportunity for the trump administration and you, kelly, to revitalize a small businesses. thank you again for being here, and i look forward to your testimony. i now recognize ranking member markey for his opening statement. sen. markey: thank you, madam chair and congratulations to you, and welcome to everyone here. i'd like to take a moment to welcome the newest members of the committee on the majority, senator curtis and justice and senator houston. congratulations. on the minority, senator schiff from california. i look forward to working with all of you. senator schiff, i extend my sympathies to you and the people of california. it is devastating to see the horrific damage caused by recent fires in your state. we stand with you in these challenging times.

unfortunately, climate disasters like those in california and that damage that was caused by just hurricane milton and hurricane helene in a three-week period in october of last year, those three storms caused $500 billion worth of damage, much of it to small businesses. a i mean, that's more than half the defense budget of the united states, damage caused by three storms in a very small periods of time. not counting all the other damage it caused. it will only get worse and more expensive unless we invest in long-term solutions to keep communities safe. we need to provide resources for small businesses in places such as california, and the southeastern states to recover, to adopt, and to innovate. i was looking forward to this hearing to discuss on behalf of america's 2000 small businesses in massachusetts.

we have 7 million people in massachusetts and 722 thousand small businesses. that is our state as identity. a small businesses. however, we find ourselves in a new reality where programs across government can be cut at a moments notice with a cryptic 2 --page memo leaving lawmakers and american families alike scrambling to figure out whether the government is open for business. and gain new business owner looking to open her beauty salon expect to close on an sba loan and get our money on schedule -- yesterday we heard conflicting answers out of the red house. i can only imagine what that uncertainty does to a first time small business trying to meet expenses. unacceptable. we can't allow a plumber or child care provider in every town in america, someone who may

have spent their entire life working for someone else and is ready to invest in themselves, a question whether their government will keep its word and stand behind them. apparently we also live in a new reality where more than a dozen inspector general can be fired without notice or cause in clear violation of the law that required a 30 days notice. the inspector general at s.b.a. was illegally fired by president trump on friday night while he was a dinner with his wife. inspector general ware has earned bipartisan respect for his candor, meticulousness and tireless work ethic over 34 years of service, and because of his work, he was elected to actually chair the government-wide council of inspector general.

having independent oversight at s.b.a. is more important than never give the breadth of its work, and i might add that under mike ware's leadership as inspector general, he collected money in covid-related fraud. he did a great job. just for the record. he got fired on friday night illegally, without notice. i would jump on this committee is to support small businesses and create a ruthless marketplace that would bring a smile to adam smith. with is one of the wealthiest states in america per person so, we believe in capitalism. but we also believe in fairness. we want to make sure that every enterprising kid with a million-dollar idea has a chance to fairly compete in the marketplace. we can promote innovation and competition by strengthening progress like sbir, the small

business innovation research program, and the small business technology transfer program, which help bring many innovative ideas to life. in massachusetts, small businesses have won more than 8 billion dollars in sbir awards and grants. and as ranking member, i went to work together with chair ernst to strengthen the programs, keep businesses in massachusetts and iowa and across our country competitive and build on the small business boom created under the biden-harris administration. under former president biden's leadership without a record 20 one million new small business applications. more than $1.220 in loans and grants to more than 13 million small businesses. 13 million. and the record amount of federal contracting dollars for small businesses.

we need to keep that momentum up. i am looking forward to this next couple of years senator loeffler thank you for joining us today. i know that we share our belief in access to capital in underserved areas is vital. i look forward to hearing your vision for america's small businesses, in particular i am eager to hear how you plan to promote competition, innovation, and job creation. it is an absolutely critical part of our economy, and as we know, elise and without funding is a hallucination. we just have to make sure that we keep these programs intact, protected, and flowing for everyone. thank you, madam chair. i look forward to this hearing. chair ernst: thank you, ranking member markey. next i would like to recognize senator britt from alabama to introduce our nominees. sen. britt: thank you, chair ernst and ranking member markey,

and members of the committee. it's an honor to be here with you today to introduce my friend. she is president trump's nominee to be administrator of the small business administration. former u.s. senator kelly loeffler. and a prolific job creator and entrepreneur, and in quintessential american success story. kelly grew up in the family farm, became the first in her family to earn a college degree, and worked her way up to the highest levels of business. she joined intercontinental exchange when it had under 100 employees, then spent nearly 20 years building it into a global powerhouse and a fortune 500 company. she went on to found that, and as its ceo and first employee, she laid the foundation to take the company public in just three years. since leaving the senate in 2001, she has been devoted her time to running a voter

registration nonprofit. to me, the most striking and impressive part of her story of this -- she gave up a successful career in the private sector to serve in the senate, and donated every single paycheck while she was here to charity. now that she has made the decision to serve the american people, once again, when confirmed, is confirmed, which i believe you will be, and strongly hopefully in a bipartisan fashion, with her signature selflessness, she will once again, donate her salary to charity. kelly is a perfect choice to lead the s.b.a., and i want you to understand why this matters. first of all, 99 .4% of businesses in the great state of alabama are small. so what you do matters. i am also the daughter of two small-business owners. so i have seen the struggles of my parents first hand. seeing that when people getting these rooms in d.c. and create

big, burdensome regulation, the truth is that they hit the little guy the hardest. you get it. you have limited, and you are ready to fight for these individuals, to fight for the american dream. you have a proven track record in delivering efficiency, accountability, and results of-driven leadership. she wants to empower every entrepreneur with the resources and support they need to pursue what they believe they can. in closing, i would like to say i have absolute confidence in her ability to strengthen our main streets, to figure out how to get capital to underserved communities, to figure out how we roll back red tape and let people do what they do best, job creators sort and achieve their american dream. helping our small businesses thrive like never before is what i am confident you will do. so thank you so much for the opportunity to speak to each and everyone of you, and thank you for giving her the utmost

credence, because she is who we need in this role as the next sba administrator. thank you. chair ernst: thank you. next we will have senator tim scott to introduce the honorable kelly loeffler. senator scott, you are recognized. sen. scott: thank you. it is my honor to be here today to introduce president trump's nominee to serve as the administrator of the small business administration, my friend, kelly loeffler from the great state of georgia. i agreed to introduce kelly today because her path, like mine, to success, and to the u.s. senate, defied all odds. she is standing before you because she loves the lord, she has an amazing work ethic, and, frankly, she loves our country as much as anyone i have ever

met. small business business in rural america ran through the thread of the lefler family. i love the story of her family. she is a fourth-generation farmer. her grandfather had an eighth-grade education. her father, a high school education. she worked so hard that literally her hard work and her strong value system made her the first college graduate, then later she learned her mba. her story is, frankly, a story of remarkable success generally one that we should all be thankful that america continues to create all across the country. one of the things that we often times think of when we think about success and the american dream is homeownership. for me, the dream was achieved through small business and having someone to be the administrator of the administrator of the sba who understands and appreciates small business, i have a good person for people like that. someone -- i have a great passion for people like that. someone who is not only at the

top of the food chain in business, but i prefer the part of the story that starts with a woman working her way at minimum wage jobs, working her way up that ladder. we spend so much time talking about the top of the ladder, that we forget that most of us have to climb that ladder rung by rung by rung, and you have done a marvelous job of doing that. one of the things i like to celebrate about her time in the senate is that during the pandemic, we work closely on relief for families and businesses across the south. we fought to improve access to the c.a.r.e.s. funds to keep macy to live. you and i fought together to stop bad actors from taking advantage through fraudulent loans. we bought from ka's efforts to move supply chains from overseas, cut regulations, lowered taxes, and empowered american entrepreneurs to succeed. by the end of your time, he had passed half a dozen bills into

law, and delivered $47 billion of relief funds to georgia, to their employees and to the small businesses. kelly's currier has been nothing short of amazing, proving the american dream can be achieved through hard work and faith with the right leaders in place. kelly loeffler is the right leader to put in place as the administrator at the sba. her proven track record is why we can have great confidence that the sba will return to the gold standard and for your leadership. i will just stop there with my prepared remarks and simply say that, as a small business owner for 15 years, i have great confidence in your ability to do the job. to my fellow members of this committee, i hope that you will hear her out. i will also ask for you to vote for her, because it is time for

us to right the ship, to focus on the underserved communities in this country and to make sure that every single zip code in this nation has strong, powerful small businesses, because without small businesses, we will have higher unemployment and low enthusiasm. thank you for your time. chair ernst: thank you, for that kind introduction. i will note that the vote has started so, if we have members that would like to go and vote now, please do so. ms. loeffler, if you will please rise, we will swear u.n.. ms. loeffler, raise your right hand. this is the tradition of the committee to swear in our nominees. we are suffering in today kelly loeffler to be administrator of the sba. please answer the following questions -- do you celebrate

swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god? should you be confirmed as administrator, are you willing to appear and testify before any duly cosseted a committee of congress when requested to do so? are you willing to provide such information as requested by any such committee? thank you. you may go ahead and take your seat, ms. loeffler, and you are now recognized for five minutes to provide your opening statement to the committee. sen. loeffler: thank you, chair ernst. let me just say, it is a distinct honor to be here today. chair ernst, ranking member markey and members of the committee, it's truly an honor to be before you today as trumka's nominee for the administrator of the small business administration. i'm as humbled to be here today as i was serving alongside many of you in the u.s. senate. and i have appreciated the

opportunity to meet with nearly every member of this distinguished committee in recent weeks. i am especially grateful to president trump for entrusting me with the privilege and responsibility of serving america's 33 million small -- 34 million small businesses. there is no stronger advocate for these job creators than our president. i share his commitment, and if confirmed, will work tirelessly with him to make small business great again. finally, i want to thank my incredible husband, jeff, and my wonderful family and friends who have joined us here today in-person and via broadcast. most importantly, i give all thanks and glory to god. as someone who has spent my life either working in small businesses, starting them, growing them, or helping them succeed -- i know that small business is big business for america. they comprise 99% of all

businesses. they create two out of every three new jobs, and employ nearly half of the private sector workforce. they are the opportunity and innovation engines that drive prosperity and growth, and they power the american economy as much as the american dream. in his first term, president trump made historic strives to empower job creators and job seekers alike, driving small business formation and a blue-collar boom. and through historic tax cuts, trade deals, and deregulation, his agenda created seven million new jobs, delivered historically low poverty, and record employment for minority communities. his first-term accomplishments were so great that following the 2024 election, small business optimism recorded its largest jump since 1980, more than two months before he even took office. small business is in my dna. i grew up the fourth generation

in my family's farm in illinois. my wonderful parents, don and lynda, didn't have degrees, but they had faith and grit. they worked relentlessly to sustain our farm and small trucking company, risking everything to provide for us while navigating a volatile commodity markets and complex regulations, and facing countless day-to-day challenges. it is where my midwestern work ethic was ingrained, working in our soybean fields and waiting tables at local restaurants, preparing me for a lifetime of starting and growing businesses. i became the first and my family to graduate college. he later earned my mba. and became the only cfa ever to serve in congress. since then, i helped grow a startup into a fortune 500 company. for ten years, i co-owned a wnba team. i later launch a financial tech company as the founding ceo and

first employee. i recall managing budgets and xl spreadsheets, hiring my first team member, and working with regulators as much as i recall ringing the bell when two of those companies went public. i strongly support president trump's historic agenda and pandemic response. having spent years as a small business owner, i made it my mission to serve as their voice. i spent much of 2020 delivering relief, traveling to -- traveling the state of georgia, and meeting with small business owners struggling to navigate the ppp program. the loan we help them get did not just save a restaurant but saved the jobs of 3000 georgians, and i'm proud to say they are still in business today. no matter the business, the challenges are consistent, from managing inflation and capital to hiring a skilled workforce

and weathering uncertainty. job creators in the last four years have faced rising demands to comply with new rules often compounded with unknown conflict and consequence. this economy picks winners and losers and denies opportunity to those who dare to dream of a better future. if i have the honor of being confirmed, i will leverage my business experience to champion america's entrepreneurs. we will cut red tape while restoring the accountability and transparency that taxpayers deserve. i will crackdown on fraud with a zero tolerance policy while shifting sba's focus from washington, d.c., back to main street across america, and it confirmed, i will collaborate across government and private sector to deliver efficiency and results. importantly, we will responsibly and urgently meet the challenge of disaster relief.

i am committed to serving all who are impacted from north carolina to hawaii. each taxpayer dollar entrusted to the sba should have an economic multiplier effect, delivering capital to grow manufacturing, strengthen rural communities, create jobs, and develop critical technologies like ai and chips. i believe we must continue to empower entrepreneurs from all walks of life including women and veterans. above all, the sba's founding mission needs urgent restoration . empowering small businesses and growing our economy. that's exactly what the america first agenda does by ending inflation, cutting taxes, slashing regulation, and training in waste, fraud, and abuse in government. in the last four years, small businesses have lost ground, affected by inflation and

uncertainty that threatens the very existence of main street. president trump's agenda will restore small business economy, marking a return to made in america with a golden era of prosperity and growth. at sba, that means meeting today's dynamic challenges alongside america's entrepreneurs, not by sitting in washington or working from home. we will honor their tribes by doing ours. small businesses are the risktakers. job creators, taxpayers, innovators, and the providers of first jobs to former waitresses like me, they represent the best of american free enterprise. like president trump, i have signed the front of a paycheck. we both understand there is nothing small about small business. thank you for your dedication to small business. i welcome your questions, and i

would be honored to earn your support to serve as the next administrator of the small business administration. >> thank you for your testimony. before we move the questions, the committee has received several letters of support for senator ms. loeffler's nomination. america's small business development centers, independent community bankers of america, independent women's forum, job creators network, national association of development companies, national retail federation, small business investor alliance, small business and entrepreneurship counsel, national association of government guaranteed funders, international franchise association, national restaurant association, georgia public policy foundation, governor of georgia brian kemp, association of women's business centers,

economic and community development institute, u.s. black chambers incorporated in the national small business administration. without objection, so ordered. at this time, we will go ahead and move on the questions. i now recognize myself for five minutes of questions. senator loeffler, in our conversation, you made it clear that given your time in the senate, you understand the role of congress. you denoted given your business experiences give u.s. as your board and the taxpayers as your shareholders with the responsibility to ensure the sba moves forward in the right direction. unfortunately, the biden administration did not share this view. i repeatedly requested information, and those requests work ignored. can you commit to provide this committee with the documents and

information it requests in a timely manner? ms. loeffler: absolutely. i look forward to a partnership. sen. ernst: i think that is essential to a good partnership between congress, the small business administration, and our constituencies. that is who we serve. last year, sba failed to alert or provide the committee with information before the agency ran out of funding for its disaster assistance program. can you commit to more transparent, timely, and forthright dialogue between the sba and this committee should you become administrator? ms. loeffler: absolutely. chair ernst: thank you. we know it is extremely important to me that we right size the sba and get it on a

clear course to deliver its mission. within your first 100 days as administrator, what would be your primary goals and objectives to get the sba back on track? ms. loeffler: thank you for the question. i, too, enjoyed the time we were able to spend together with you and your staff. i think your leadership of this committee is critical and i appreciate the work you have done today. i look forward to working with this entire committee toward the aims of restoring the small business committee and small business administration to serving small businesses and supporting economic growth in this country. that is our northstar. in order to do that, we must have accountability at this agency. it is in dire need of restoration, and that starts with shoring up the financial situation. the fact that this agency has not been able to pass an audit for 4 years is a disgrace.

we must make sure we are accountable to taxpayers, that our programs are solvent, and working toward the aims of serving small businesses, so obviously, we are going to get our financial house in order and do it quickly, and we will do that in addition to making sure the programs are working for small businesses and taxpayers. we know that the core loan program is in need of oversight in terms of understanding the rising delinquencies and defaults. we will take a hard look at that. we will make sure that disaster funds are resourced and accounted for and that there are no more situations where americans in a crisis are faced with months of not having disaster relief. finally, we are certainly going to get this agency back to work. i am grateful for president trump's rapid action through his executive order to return to

work. we will make sure we have people committed to the success of small businesses, that have the heart for small business, also have that sense of accountability to taxpayers. chair ernst: thank you so much for that. as you talk about the audit, we know that we need transparency within the small business administration, and hearing that is music to my ears. i began my elected career representing the taxpayers of montgomery county as their county auditor, and i am just excited to know that you will follow through on that commitment. as you know, i also serve as the chair of the senate does caucus -- the senate doge caucus and we have a mandate an opportunity to expose multimillion dollar boondoggles. sta is fda is not immune to this

which provides us extraordinary opportunity to disrupt the bureaucracies and their status quo. will you commit to examining programs to root out fraudulent actors? >> this is could go because we are four years passed covid, the last administration took a path on friday in these programs. i appreciate your work and legislation continuing covid collections to go after those who want to defraud the government. we will have a 0 tolerance policy toward fraud but also waste and abuse and we will route that out in the agency and those that seek to exploit the program. >> thank you. i would like to turn the gavel over to senator curtis while i go vote.

>> monday night, donald trump's budget office issued a memo, to cut off all federal spending, the trump administration issued this order to authorize and appropriate by congress and intended to benefit the american people. do you believe this action by the president to cut off federal funding authorized and appropriated by congress was lawful? >> i disagree with the premise of your question because the money was certainly with regard to the agencies discretionary in many cases but i agree with donald trump's decision to stop wasteful spending. it resulted in a landslide victory many americans were waiting for relief against excessive government spending.

>> he did not freeze programs of waste, fraud and abuse, he froze all programs, do you think that is lawful that he can freeze all programs? >> with all due respect i disagree about all programs were frozen at all. he specifically called out programs related to to illegal dei programs and programs that effectively linked to the green new deal that picks winners and losers. i think americans breathed a sigh of relief when they saw the waste, fraud and abuse -- >> wait a minute. the next day, omb did put out a statement saying funds for small businesses are not subject to the order. he did not single out these programs. they were under freezing all programs that had to be clarified and that's good for

small businesses but only for now. this uncertainty, the cloud which is placed over the head of small businesses across the country could return at any moment. it is a dangerous precedent the president set. >> if i could add -- >> i hoped that you would hold donald trump to upholding the law. and if donald trump asked you to do anything illegal or unconstitutional in your role as fda administrator would you say no? >> he' s not going to ask me to do that. i'm not going to create a hypothetical situation. i will faithfully uphold the law and donald trump is fighting for -- >> he has already acted illegally twice in the last five days by firing the inspectors general, that was illegal under the law, he froze

all funding on monday night, that was also against the law. it is not as though he won't ask you to do something illegal and unconstitutional, he has been doing all week, and this is the first week. since its creation -- >> ranking member if i could for the record note these were not illegal actions. i support the president's actions, within his right to select members of the executive branch -- the right to stop wasteful spending -- >> he violated the statutes, the president violated the statute by firing the inspector general. if he -- it requires 30 day notice passed by congress on by a president, violation of law. he does not have the ability to be a king. >> i believe there's precedent for this. >> let me move on, it has had staggering success across the country and especially in massachusetts.

overall massachusetts has received 26,000 sbir and stir grants, $9 billion in funding. i strongly believe in these programs and their potential for supercharging our economy. as those programs have in massachusetts and states all across the country. when i met with you, you mentioned it should be awarded on a merit basis. i agree or heartedly. merit drives innovation. will you commit to working with me and the committee to ensure any reauthorization effort maintains a merit-based process and does not limit innovation? >> if i have the honor of being confirmed i will look forward to working with you and i know we have a lot of common ground in support of small business particularly the ft ir and the

small business innovation research program that allows united states to be at the forefront of technological, biomedical, and other types of national security related technology, research and innovation that so important to this country. >> thank you. >> i now yield 5 minutes to myself. i am so pleased to have you with us, we will call you senator at least for now. when you came into my office i appreciated the connection we made about small businesses in our own lives and our families lives and like many members here we can all identify with the statistics in our state, i don't think they are different in mind, 99% small business, over half of all the employees in the state are small business and it is such an important part of our economy. yet they often lack resources and don't have the advantages of larger businesses in the one

of the things we discussed is how best to hook up the resources of your administration with those small businesses in our state, you were generous if i remember correctly to come out to our state and i'm getting a nod of heads. i think as part of that, not just you coming up but helping educate my small businesses about how they can access those, we will look forward to your decision. >> i'm excited about having you in the senate and appreciated meeting with you and your staff in the basement office. it is a great way to start. >> like a small business. >> it is a small business. >> i had a small business before i came here, my father was a small business owner, my daughters and children have small businesses and one of the things i don't think america realizes is that most of these small businesses struggle just to keep the lights on. it is hard.

paycheck to paycheck they don't have a lot of money to do things other people do. part of that is they don't have the money for lawyers and attorneys to deal with excessive regulations that sometimes we can put on them here from washington dc at as a result i believe regulations are disproportionately hard on small businesses so share with me for a minute what you can do to lighten this burden and make sure we are not the biggest problem of small businesses? >> thank you for recognizing that vital issue to america's 34 million small businesses. many who have fewer than nine employees. and answer your question i would like to speak to small businesses in saying you have someone that if confirmed will understand what it is like to have a small business, to worry about meeting payroll, let alone paying the bills for the small business particularly with the setback that small businesses have had in the last

four years, losing 10% on the top line revenue while seeing their cost increase by 20% due to inflation. the fda can be a way of helping small businesses combat a tough four years. if we deploy the resources appropriately and prudently so that the small businesses who need it most have access to that be it through capital, technical assistance or other ways of supporting entrepreneurs uber ship in this country which is so vital to our advancement on a global stage but also within our local communities, that provide the first job and they are the ones that never worked from home, they show up, they turn out their commitments to their customers and that is what we are going to do at the fda. >> federal policy in general,

we know we will be talking about tariffs in the upcoming days. once again these are disproportionately hard on small businesses and we have a conversation, would love to invite you to work with the administration and the senate as we move into a world where tariffs are a real reality to figure out how to help small businesses accommodate that. it is a different runway, time frames and small businesses. talk about how we have the most difficult challenges. >> i have the honor of being confirmed i will be a voice for small business but there's no big or small business champion band donald trump. he will make sure small business has a voice at the table but i also think it is important we look at the data and not the hyperbole that happens sometimes in the media, donald trump was successful in

implementing tariffs in his first term but also successful at keeping inflation right around that 2% mark which is some facts of the media always overlook. you have my commitment small businesses will be considered in all the decisions we make and that is something i know firsthand from donald trump he is their biggest advocate. >> thank you for manning the chair. i now recognize senator sharon oh --hirono. >> as part of my responsibly as a member of this committee and all the other committees on which i exist i asked the following two initial questions of all nominees who come before the committee. i will ask you since you became a legal adult have you ever made unwanted requests for sexual favors or committed any verbal or physical harassment

of a sexual nature? >> no, senator. >> heavier face discipline or entered into a settlement relating to this kind of thing? >> no, senator. >> during the pandemic you opposed health centers receiving ppp loans for ideological reasons even though, like other nonprofits eligible for loans as later determined by fda's own inspector general. last week the president fired vig without proper notice as required by law. it is clear that donald trump thinks he can do whatever he wants. as the administrator, should you be confirmed, would you commit to implementing sp programs in a fair and impartial manner? >> let me first say i hope we could be able to meet. i requested several meetings which i keep the people of maui

in my prayers. i know they are still struggling through the disaster that occurred 18 months ago and i hope we can work together but let me correct with all due respect the premise, both premises of your question. i objected to the planned parenthood receipt of covid relief loans because they did not fit the parameters -- >> because of the affiliation, you do know the ig said to the contrary position. all i'm asking is whether you can be fair and impartial, a very important position as you say so many small businesses throughout the country. just a simple affirmation that you can do so is what i'm asking. >> i will faithfully uphold all of the laws and ethics rules. >> the thing is as i mentioned with donald trump the laws he likes are the ones he likes and the ones he doesn't like he

considers them to be unequal but i will move on but as a senator you cosponsored the resolution recognizing ryan sickand who was brutally attacked during the january 6th insurrection and who later died as a result, last week the president issued blanket pardons for the january 6th insurrectionist's including those responsible for attacking officer sicknick, do you agree with the decision to pardon these violent offenders? >> i strongly support the pardon. these individuals were denied due process and it is time to get past political persecution in this country. >> they were not denied due process, they were tried and found guilty and some even admitted their guilt. i am disappointed that you agree that these violent

criminals should be pardoned. let me get to the wildfire. in 2023 lahaina experienced a wildfire that devastated the entire community including schools, homes, businesses, and more. key to that recovery has been what i described as the federal family of agencies which include fema and fda, the president up proposal emanating fema saying let the states take care of the tornadoes and hurricanes at all the other things that happen. i have seen the devastation in lahaina and the role fema and fba played in the recovery. fba provided hundreds of millions in loans to help lahaina recover. it would be a huge mistake to aluminate disaster response and

relief and have states fend for themselves. do you agree with the president's recent comments that states should be left to fend for themselves during a natural disaster? that's another yes or no question. >> i disagree with the premise, the president strongly supports disaster relief. he was on the ground last week in north carolina. >> he also said -- >> i mentioned we do support the continued relief there. >> you support continuing recovery? >> the president has been clear individual assistance will not be paused. >> i'm glad you support the continuing important role of fda. when you were running for u.s. senate -- time flies. are you having a second round? >> we can do a second round,

yes. >> i will submit questions for the record. thank you. >> thank you. next i will recognize senator bud for five minutes of questions. >> thank you, chair. congratulations on your nomination, thanks to your family and friends for being here and for leaving your role in private work twice to serve our country so thank you for what you are willing to do. your state and my state and several others have gone through quite a lot since late september with hurricane helene. in the moment i wasn't in western north carolina myself i was able to see a television. it was you standing there with donald trump committing that if he were reelected he would support. he has lived up to that, back to western north carolina, i

believe he is our rebuilder in chief. one of the things that we saw was the s -- fba under president biden failed to notify congress in a timely manner about depletion of the disaster relief fund and didn't fulfill the reporting requirements along the way so if confirmed, how would you ensure timely and accurate reporting to congress regarding disaster money, account balances, funding needs and how would you address the transparency failures we saw during the biden administration? >> thank you for this important question and let me assure you my prayers are with the people of western north carolina. i know the president was there recently and truly the rebuilder in chief as are many private enterprises in your own state and i thank them for their dedication across the southeast and my prayers are

with the people of georgia and all impacted so let me say what happened on october 15th when congress was shocked by the news that despite assurances two days earlier the disaster relief funding had run out. in business this would never be tolerated. we see an example of this everywhere in this agency that i know we are trying to get our arms around and make a quick correction on. you have my commitment we will ensure disaster relief funding is there for hard-working americans when they need it and i look forward to your feedback on how the responses been, so we will strengthen the program and having the transparency so that this committee is routinely apprised of the status of the agency across all vectors serving the american people on. >> thank you for that. so the disaster loan program is

critical in supporting small businesses. and being there to help communities during crises but we have recent disasters like hawaii or heleneither reveal a lot of real shortcomings in the sba's management so these have led to funding shortfalls like transparency, administrative inefficiency that hindered timely disaster response and recovery. people of western north carolina and north georgia felt these failures firsthand when they needed assistance most and were left waiting due to mismanagement during a time of dire need. will you commit to working with my office and this committee to address these shortcomings and ensure the sba is fully prepared to respond effectively to the needs of business is in north georgia, western north carolina and other states in need of disasters. >> you have my commitment.

>> the numbers paint a troubling picture for small businesses. there's a survey from 2023-24, the small business index said small businesses deployment declined 51,000 jobs and it also said that revenue fell on average for those businesses $12,000. and that is also the steepest year over year decline since the obama administration of 2015. the same time the 2024 goldman sachs, 10,000 small-business voices survey revealed 77% of small businesses are deeply concerned about their ability to access the capital they need to operate reliably. small businesses make up the bulk of our economy. donald trump said small business is big business so

this level of decline i would imagine you would think as well is unacceptable. you and donald trump's leadership, how can we expect to see a new golden age for small businesses? >> absolutely, thank you for the question because donald trump is restoring the golden era for all americans by strengthening our economy, making our country more safe and secure and ensuring wasteful taxpayer spending is not driving up inflation. inflation is the number one problem not only facing families but small businesses. they are looking at 20% higher cost on at least 10% lower revenue. that's an unsustainable situation for our employers who are putting on the line and i will have their back. >> i now recognize senator schiff for five minutes of questions. >> thank you, madam chair. an honor to serve on this

committee and represent california's 4. 2 million small businesses including tech startups, nonprofits, childcare centers, rural businesses, arts and entertainment industry and women and minority owned businesses, that number is growing daily and i'm very proud to represent these incredible business owners, innovators and hard-working employees. kelly loeffler, appreciate the conversation we had last week. the weeks of seemed endless these days. as you know very well, horrific wildfires and high winds have ravaged california over the last month displacing thousands of families and destroying homes, schools, community centers, places of worship and countless small businesses. as these fires have impacted the livelihood of innumerable californians, it is crucial we know california has the support of the government to respond and rebuild. we must rebuild resiliently. the sba provides disaster assistance for homeowners,

renters, nonprofits and businesses of all sizes affected by natural disasters. i got to see this in operation visiting the discovery resource centers in los angeles, westword, and pasadena. sba was on hand in large numbers to help small business owners and homeowners find what resources were available to them to help them recover and rebuild. i do want to echo concern by my colleague senator markey about the freeze on federal funding. there has been a statement that the freeze order has been lifted but not the freeze. none of us know how to make heads or tails of that but what concerns me is even if the administration says helped individuals will not be affected by this, if federal

funding to sba is curtailed, sba cannot make loans to individuals. and to small businesses. at a time when california desperately needs that help, any delay, any uncertainty will just add additional injury. i have also been distressed by calls to condition funding to california. california has contributed more to recovery of the states than any other state of the union. i want to ask you first of all to recommit to something we discussed privately and that is to ensure if confirmed that all states, not just california but all states receive speedy, relief for disaster victims and survivors without regard whether estate is red, blue, green, yellow, or anything else. are you committed to a

colorblind political affiliation, make sure sba assistance is provided to small businesses in every state? >> i appreciated our time in being in your office and discussing this important matter. my prayers are with california but our efforts will be there as well. as donald trump demonstrated by his first official trip, presidents might fly outside the country, he went to california, immediately appointed a task force, i think the president's actions demonstrated his support for disaster relief. he did it in his last term and i will support his efforts and leadership to ensure the people of california have the resources they need under donald trump's leadership.

>> i was grateful the president came to los angeles. i felt if he saw the damage he could not help but be moved and i think and hope that he was. i am concerned about some statements he has made about tying disaster assistance to the passage of completely unrelated voter id laws or unrelated policy. let me also raise the need not just with respect to the disaster in california but make sure the sba is proceeding apace with a sense of urgency that is efficiently and effectively processing loan applications. i realize the balance is difficult. there was massive fraud among some applying for covid relief. we don't want to see excessive delays, harms the ability to

ferret out waste, fraud, and abuse but are you committed to doing everything you can to provide speedy attention to sba applications while providing safeguards to avoid fraud. thank you, madam chair or mr. chairman. >> on behalf of the chair i recognize myself, thank you for being willing to do this. i love serving with you, you were a terrific senator and glad you're willing to do this job. a great service for our country. let me ask a question or two about priorities at sba. on day one, the last president issued an executive order directing federal agencies to adopt a broad racial equity agent and that's a focus of sba

the last four years and the largest program that uses racial preferences in the federal government is the aide program run by sba and to be eligible for companies had to show various characteristics to access funding. it was ruled unconstitutional, another federal court struck down a similar requirement administered by the restaurant revitalization funds. donald trump has thankfully said we will put a stop to these dei programs. how do you see implanting that at sba and will you get resources on helping small businesses no matter who the owner is, to fit some bureaucrats agenda, we will execute on the mission of that. >> appreciate the time we spent discussing these matters.

overturns a decisive and illegal dei program that was spread throughout the government and this will reduce the burdens on the small business for implementation of needless programs but moreover the best way to serve small businesses is making lending available to all who qualify as opposed to picking winners and losers and pitting americans against one another. you have my commitment we will route that out and make sure it is broadly available. >> that's a fantastic answer. another priority, the last administration's small business administration focused on the dei agenda but was not helping people in rural areas. in fy 24, 143,000 loans, 12,000 went to rural businesses, just 12%.

of sba's $56 billion in capital last fiscal year, $6 billion went to rural business. there is an imbalance between urban and rural, urban centers, all for small businesses and urban centers. would you agree small businesses in rural america are extremely important, often the lifeblood of our communities like the small town where i grew up, 4,000 relied on small businesses. what will you do to make sure small business in rural america is a priority they are getting access to funds they qualify for and doing everything to help small businesses revitalize the community? >> not only do i agree with you i was raised in a family, a town that has 600 people in it. many of them were small

business owners. i saw the hard work they did dealing with increased federal regulation even back then and getting the support they need. i understand it first hand and we can do better and will do better because this is an area we can grow in terms of bringing manufacturing, made in america driven by rural america and paying attention to people who have been forgotten about. donald trump remembers the forgotten men and women working so hard in this country to make it work. >> fantastic. i welcome your focus and look forward to working with you. let me ask about fraud, waste, and abuse. you remember, you referenced at the height of the pandemic congress enacted the cares act to provide very necessary relief to millions of americans. we also at the same time

created a special inspector general to monitor any fraud and abuse. for reasons continue to elude me the last administration, the last president almost immediately limited the remit of the special inspector general and defund it. wasted and fraudulently dispersed under these programs. we need that office, and to get the dirt -- would you support that and can you talk about the need to root out fraud and abuse. >> of confirmed i look forward to working with this committee to have a higher standard of accountability to act with more urgency, to have a 0-tolerance

policy with regard to fraud and making taxpayers fall, only get back to that accountability as soon as possible. >> now i recognize senator shaheen. >> congratulations, kelly loeffler, on your nomination and thank you for your willingness to serve. welcome to your family and friends who are here with you this afternoon. new hampshire, like many of the states represented on this committee has 99% of its businesses through small businesses. i agree with the fact that small businesses are the lifeblood of this country, 2 thirds of jobs are created from small businesses. my favorite statistic is they create 16 times more patents than larger businesses. it's critical we provide assistance to ensure that they thrive. i heard from one of our

businesses in new hampshire yesterday that sells agricultural equipment to universities and they help research efficiency to help farmers. he was worried the halt to spending this week, the order on spending caused him to worry about his businesses. what would you say to that business owners so they are reassured their orders will continue? >> appreciate the chance to meet with you and your staff and your leadership in this committee as well. certainly, the facts are no individual assistance is part of that pause. what the president is doing is fulfilling his commitment that overwhelmingly americans agree with which is to root out waste, fraud, and abuse.

the agency discretionary funds contributed to problems we have with debt, inflation, no bigger champion small businesses and donald trump told me personally small business is big business, and champion and me, raised in a small family business, i know the risks small business operators bear every day. they ensure they have a voice and they do. >> i agree that it is reasonable to review how things are working and get rid of waste, fraud, and abuse.

what is unprecedented is the uncertainty that it creates for people who benefit from those programs, the fact that it was so broad and far reaching. i enjoyed the opportunity to meet with you and thank you for coming in and talking. one of the things we discussed was the importance in the sba and pleased chair ernst mentioned the importance of ensuring we keep people in the field offices and that reduced staff members, so much of the help for small businesses comes from. and keep the district offices, and help small businesses.

>> 68 district offices. the great aspect of this, you can be out with entrepreneurs and small businesses and the technical support and counseling they need to succeed. the counseling and mentorship they need to fill in any gaps, they are more successful and i heard so many stories from small businesses to become successful. i've seen them in our own communities. you have my commitment, i look forward to visiting your state as well. >> we look forward to having you come to new hampshire. one of the most important roles we will have as a spokesperson for small businesses. i was pleased donald trump

continues to maintain the fda administrator as a member of his cabinet. that's very important. one of the issues i've been proud to work on that i think we need to continue to focus on for small businesses is helping them access foreign markets because 99% of markets are outside the united states, 3% of small and medium-sized businesses do business outside the united states. and the expansion program, a set program, i hope to commit to continuing to support that program and helping our small businesses get into those international markets. >> the step program is a very appealing program to understand how we can broaden our work with exports and small businesses can play a tremendous role there. i look forward to working with

you to see where we can broaden the export program and make it more efficient and deliver more winds for small businesses. >> i will recognize senator young for five minutes. >> thank you, welcome, kelly loeffler, great to see you here today and congratulations on this nomination. good to see your husband, jeff, a hoosier. when my father heard in the united states senate i was going to sit on small business committee in the us and i can tell you how excited he was. he perceived this to be known as the most powerful committee, the most important committee for my dad because when my dad was getting started in the

business he relied on sba support loans in particular to help him grow this business and for him this was the most important committee and certain wisdom to that is if you travel around we see that most jobs these days are created not by large enterprises because those come and go. they are great for ribbon-cutting but usually smaller enterprises and we can optimize policies so more people start small businesses and grow into larger businesses. that's the key to economic development. if confirmed, how are you going to work to keep our small businesses competitive today and resilient tomorrow? an open-ended question. >> i agree with your dad. i couldn't be more humbled by this awesome responsibility for

small businesses that power our local communities that do create two of every three new jobs in america. that is incredibly powerful. i think there's a number of things we can do to make small business more competitive. respecting small business is about free enterprise and not about the government so we have to look at ourselves and say what are we doing in this agency to make it harder to access capital and government contracting or counseling. are we there for them? a big part of that is getting everyone back in the office, awful golf course into the office, being aligned with small businesses, where they are on main street and not k st. . making sure everyone in the agency is accountable, making sure programs work for small business doing a deep dive. >> directional you are on the right course and that's the most important thing at this

point. any specific ideas how sba could be modernized under your leadership? >> i don't want to get ahead of myself. i would look at the broad range of efficiency that could be gained. i will be looking at organizational designs, skill sets and training of that might be needed to deliver our services to increase our response times to small businesses and metric driven. we will have goals and we will be reporting that to the committee. >> members of this committee, count me in who want to help you and the rest of the administration be successful as relates to the small business administration. something you might consider doing is prioritizing an incentive for new businesses

and small businesses to adopt the latest technologies. i just had a great exchange with howard lutnick, secretary of commerce nominee. we emphasize digital trade which he supports unlike the previous administration but that is encouraging but related to small business administration many hoosier small businesses rely on digital tools but the law doesn't clearly state if these costs qualify within these loan programs. it is -- if someone wants to purchase ai technology it is unclear if the law will include that so i have introduced legislation with senator rosen, bud, and shaheen to clarify and promote the purchase of digital tools for small businesses. if confirmed would you be willing to work with me on this topic?

>> absolutely if confirmed i would be. ai is at the forefront as donald trump said a wake-up call to american innovation and tools for automating small businesses, making them more efficient, whether it is things like copilot or agents i would support looking at that. >> thank you. i will be submitting a question for the record on another important topic about how you intend to address sba's cyber security infrastructure. >> thank you. senator kunz. >> great to be with you and thank you to your family and those here to support you. as i hope you know your predecessor in the previous two administrations had a strong working relationship with sba administrator mcmahon came to visit delaware several times

which i would agree my dad says the same thing, my dad started and ran a small manufacturing business and thought this was the most exciting committee i could be on and it has been in the past a very productive committee. my hope is we will get back to turning out legislation that works with you that we will authorize and appropriate review funds and programs. when we had a chance to be two weeks ago a program i brought up was score which i suspect was founded in wilmington, delaware. the highest federally appropriated dollar for impact programs in history, more than 10,000 volunteers who deliver 4 million hours a year of free business plan consulting, score clients return $59 in tax revenue for every dollar appropriated. it needs to be reauthorized. we need to look at it to ensure

it is operating well. would you support score and its reauthorization and work with me to achieve a bipartisan reauthorization if confirmed? >> thank you for the time you shared in your office. i was delayed it to hear about your dad's sentiments. i agree and look forward to working with you to review scores, see how it can be made more robust and evaluate the program and sharing all that data with this committee so we have a collaborative approach to ensuring our efforts are making a difference for small businesses. it definitely had an impact and we want to make sure programs that work are made available to more entrepreneurs. >> 10,000 volunteers help more than 3000 entrepreneurs. i'm hopeful we can work together and that. a piece of legislation marco

rubio and i worked on for several congress is was to make sure grantees actually produce commercialized technology. about half lead to commercial technology but half don't. this was authorized, some of the premarket scale up costs called the ramp for innovators actor. act. the sba coordinates activities across the government. what your priorities would be, whether you would work with us on reauthorization and ensure that it doesn't just fund endless research but actually fund a leak to the marketplace. >> absolutely. small business innovation research grants are critical to solving the challenges america has in scaling innovation quickly. the program gives more runway

to these important technological breakthroughs in bioscience, technology, ai, drones, mission critical things for national defense that would not be possible without the support of research institutions. i look forward to collaborating with this committee on reauthorization and reviewing the program for where it can be strengthened to produce more efficient results and highlighting the wins to ensure these are winds that generate powerful return on taxpayer investments. >> another concern i expressed in previous congresss is the amount of federal contracting money going to small businesses. small businesses continue to get a robust piece of the total pie which exceeds the target for a smaller number of small business firms. i would also be interested in working with you to make sure we are contracting federally to as many as possible as every

colleague has reference, 98% of businesses even in the state of delaware, small businesses, work with me to be sure we achieve those goals. >> absolutely. if confirmed i would like to work with you on that. this program is vital for small businesses to have an awareness and have access to the program. of the programs become too complex that only a select few can find their way in. that avoids the program's foundational -- i look forward to working to ensure small businesses have additional path to success. i want to acknowledge administrator mcmahon's great work, i hope we have the same great relationship working with small businesses. >> thank you, senator. >> thank you.

fellow colleagues, great to join you on the small business committee and fba, congratulations on your nomination and look forward to supporting you on your nomination come to the senate floor. i know you're entering this job at a difficult time in the sense that there have been a lot of questions about fraud that occurred and lost money that occurred during the pandemic and there will be an expectation of accountability which there should be for every tax dollar we spend but at the same time, time is money and business and small businesses particularly during time of natural disaster, trying to make ends meet, so time is so

important. give me some insights to the committee to how you expect to balance accountability in speed. >> thank you for making time to meet, and enjoyed our conversations and know that small businesses have a champion based on your work in ohio for them. you ask a critically important question about accountability. americans expect them to be there when they need them. it creates another layer of uncertainty at a time of devastation or at least uncertainty if you are forming a small business so what we need to do is have a review of these programs and make sure it is data-driven of that we look holistically across the disaster relief program. one of the parameters of the program, where we go outside

the parameters and why and what work we might do with congress to strengthen these programs so they are accessible. chair ernst has pointed out delinquencies in the 7 a loan programs, delayed payments, early defaults. these are the types of things red flags should be put up sooner. we need greater accountability in this agency and we can't find out two days later when we had assurances that there was a disaster fund ready for hurricane victims that it is actually dry. that is an abuse of taxpayer dollars and as a program we need to get to the bottom of it. you have my assurance that if confirmed we will work closely to be a steward of taxpayer dollars and be accountable to this committee.

donald trump support small business community in an efficient manner. the 7 a loan program, the bread-and-butter loan small businesses used to start at 0 subsidy meaning taxpayers don't fund programs, they should pay for themselves and operate appropriately and generally do that but we are in a position as this year starts. that may not happen. >> one more thought. something i talk about is customer service, how to serve people well and what are they telling us and returning that information back to change, enhancements, things like that we can do. i'm interested in your thoughts on how you intend to let us

know what you learned. and how we serve those customers. >> this is an area we look forward to getting into, the field program, the field program is incredibly powerful to increasing responsiveness, tailoring programs that are more efficient to deliver resources in a way the original formation of the agency's attempt was meant to do. getting people back to work, getting out in the field, tracking the data and using the feedback loop, looking at how long our case times are open. when someone comes to us with a question, how do they wait on the phone, you don't have any extra time and what small businesses want to know is they understand the challenges and complexity they deal with and this agency doesn't need to be

one of them. we want to be part of the solution, not the problem. >> welcome to the committee. >> thank you, ranking member marky for holding this hearing and senator fba -- kelly loeffler, your office was across from mine and russell and appreciate your service to the nation. you know how this place works and your willingness to serve again, have a great relationship with all the past administrators because small business matters, the same ones with you. and people who need it and help them do what is their dream or their idea, really important. chair ernst and i had a bill for a while.

childcare is so important and the rising cost of childcare, severe shortage of affordable options, financially squeezing families, all over the country, urban and rural and lack of access to childcare. it is a problem for small business and parents alike and creates barriers to grow the business and makes it difficult for small businesses. they struggle to find affordable childcare. this is why we know this crisis demands action and yesterday we reintroduced our bill again, our bipartisan bill will increase availability of affordable quality high quality child care for working families by allowing the boys and girls club, your synagogue, whatever that is. i even talked to senior centers and rural areas.

they have a big footprint for the community. we put up childcare. so this program doesn't cost anything. to apply for the same resources and now they put this affordable childcare and look forward to getting it over the finish line as quickly as possible. can you discuss how you feel about the childcare crisis and how it impacts small businesses and are you open to resources and nonprofits. >> appreciated our time to gather to attribute to the needs and the sba can be part of that and childcare is relevant in every state across the country. small businesses particularly

given the need to provide childcare. if you're a small business owner or employee it cuts across every person that touches small business and i think small business can be part of the solution. i work with you and chair ernst to review this potential solution and look at other ways the sba might support parents and children as they work in small businesses. i look forward to those conversations and the input of the rest of the committee as well. >> something we had a great talk about was our veterans and how entrepreneurial they are and how they take the things they have learned in the military and translate those things that they come home so nevada, we are home to 200,000 veterans and 23,000 veteran owned small businesses and despite this, now that was without a dedicated outreach

center until 2023, at my urging we pushed the administration to have never had a have its first -- our veterans are transitioning service mirrors and receive the tailored support they need and we talked about it with your own dad and how he started his business, such a great story. appreciate you shared that with me. the fy 25 budget there was an increase of veterans outreach underscoring the importance of helping ease the transition from active duty to civilian life. under your leadership, what do you see as the future for the veterans business outreach center? >> i couldn't agree more. our veterans need the support of the fda. if confirmed i would love to work with all of you on how we better support our veterans. ..s. my father learned truck driving skills in the air national guard that resulted in her small trucking business.

veterans have untapped potential we can help unleash and i will commit to working with and even across this administration with secretary collins du jour our veterans have the resources that they so deserve. >> thank you. also but the rest of my questions for the record but also workforce development. we had a good chance toe talk about how we train people right with god to give them the skills they need to stay in their communities and built back those neighborhoods and diners at all of that wherever there are and how important it is. i look forward to hearing back from you in working with you. >> thank you, senator rosen. >> thank you, senator rosen. and we will start a second round of questions. i believe senator markey are ranking member as another question. thank you. >> thank you. one of the benefits of being chair or ranking member is all the other members leave. it'll you know there's a hearing that continues and we get to ask

more questions. earlier one ofrt the republican senators asked you, senator, about the dei executive orders and mentioned section eight a for socially andon economically disadvantaged small businesses that are deemed unconstitutional. was not deemedd unconstitutiona. the application process had to change in the program continues. with that clarification, earlier you said, senator, president trump's executive order overturnedve dei sba programs. and again 88 for socially and economically disadvantaged small businesses -- eight a call is codified. so in your opinion doesn't executive order overturn a law

that was put on the books by this committee on a bipartisan basis? >> ranking member markey, thank you for the question. i think the important thing to note here is i support president trump's p executive orders. overturning dei programs but i have -- >> please. >> i committed to following the law. we will work with the administration to ensure that all americans have access to the programs that exist in the small business administration under the law and will continue to keep this committee updated as to any modifications as we go. >> do you believe the law does, in fact, an executive order does, in fact, overturn a law

passed by the house and senate and signed by president? is that your conclusion, that president trump is right and all dei programs are now removed? >> ranking member markey, i've committed to you i will uphold the law in all the programs, and we'll can communicate any changes to the programs to this committee. >> therefore, your authorized to change dei programs? because an executive order even though it is statutorily mandated that those programs on the books? >> i support president trump's executive orders and we will ensure that we follow the law and the administration of the sba. >> well, the small business administration administers a number of programs that aim to level the playing field for entrepreneurs underserved communities that have faced historical barriers to small business ownership due to discrimination and prejudice. the programs this committee is put on the books include the service got disabled veterans own small businesses, women's as

the centers and 8a business development programs for the disadvantaged. these programs and many others like themm are codified in the statute. and recent actions by president trump seek to rescind the so-called dei initiatives. but as administrator, president trump's executive order would also direct you to terminate diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility positions at sba. in light of that we just have to remember that executive orders cannotot change or rescind congressional mandates. we are the article one branch of government. when those redcoats were going to massachusetts avenue in massachusetts, the minute men

and women came out from lexington and concord, they were saying no taxation without representation. they already had a king. they could pick a prime minister or president but they were going to have a house and senate. this is why we article one in the constitution. that's what the minute men and women all across the country were fighting for. trump may think you can overturn what we do here but that's what the revolution was all about. it was about having representation on this committee. you may say you're going to supporting and he's the law, but he is not the law, okay? i just want to continue this conversation with you because i just think there has to be an understanding that supporting women-owned businesses. do you believe putting women-owned businesses is dei? >> i never said that. i can assure you i will uphold the wall. i was a woman owned business.

i had a majority-minority owned business for decades. understand importance of it. by having a well functioning agency it's the best we can ensure there was more access to these programs by a a diverse range of communities without picking winners and losers. that's what the american people want. that's what president trump one and a landslide because the american people want fairness and merit brought back to you and i discussed that in your office. that's what this country is about. >> but you doou understand it hs to be compassed the changes and laws? it can be done by executive art? >> yes, senator, i will uphold the law. >> thank you, ranking member markey. i'll make some comments to this discussion as well. programs that are codified, they are in law and you will uphold the law and i appreciate that answer. unfortunately what we saw during the biden administration was through a lot of supplemental

movement from the administration, they did put into place different dei programs within the sba, so the executive order is likely to immediately rollback the biden era dei mandates that were supplemental, those that are not legally binding. yes, i anticipate you will follow the law, should you be confirmed and you are well on your way. again, there are many things president biden took within his own prerogative within the sba that was not codified nor approved by this committee. we will ensure you follow the law. certainly we can rollback the things that were unilaterally

done by president biden in the sba. i will recognize senator cantwell for five minutes. sen. cantwell: thank you. congratulations for taking over the chairmanship. i look forward really, such big integration between small businesses in the state of washington and our military. really great lessons i think could be applied broader other areas of the government and great to see our new ranking member, senator markey. it's not that long ago when senator kerry was the chairman of the committee and he brought a lot of energy to the sbir and technology startup issues that were a big part of the discussion at that time. i look forward to working with both of you on the committee.

it's good to see my former colleague again, congratulations on your nomination. we had a chance to talk briefly in the office. i want to bring up a couple of things. we had a question at the commerce hearing, do you support the minority business development authority? ms. loeffler: thank you for your time in your office, and enjoyed our conversation. certainly i appreciate that program the congress department -- commerce department runs an icy potential for collaboration with sba. i support working across the administration to ensure resources are utilized and we don't have overlap in our programs and they are serving americans who need those services the most. sen. cantwell: thank you. will you work with me to ensure the department of agriculture needs the same small business set-aside challenge that dod has so successfully done but in this

case the department of agriculture giving small mills the access they need. will you work with me to make sure those important sba issues are addressed at the department of agriculture? ms. loeffler: i appreciate our conversation about your timber business. i think if confirmed, i would look forward to working with secretary rawlins to ensure we have a collaborative relationship. i understand there was previously an mou with the department of agriculture and i hope we can collaborate to help small businesses as well. sen. cantwell: thank you. let's just carry that on. one of the reasons we want this infrastructure is if you think about reducing the fuel we need, and some of the ideas like cost laminated timber, you need to have mills in those regions. to get the mills you have to have the agreement you will get them some supply. now look at the disaster we just

saw in california and we realized the situation is we already knew this in the northwest. we've had our share of dramatic fires. there was a border crossing issue, a town was flooded, and another town, fire wiped through the town. over 300,000 acres burned in wildfires in my state just in 2024. how do we make sure we keep politics, i feel like some much politics happened on federal funding in the last few years. how do we keep politics out of it and disagreements and make sure there was a case on the malden fire, it was delayed for months, about a disagreement between the president then and our governor and it took a new administration -- cathy mcmorris rodgers and i were working together for these funds. how will you help us deliver

disaster systems without the noise we are hearing? ms. loeffler: i appreciate the question. certainly your state has had your share of disaster, you have the bomb cyclone in november and ongoing recovery. i think americans were stunned by the politicization of the hurricane response under fema where they refused to go to homes with trump signs in the front yards. americans want to see an end to that. we should not be politicizing our disaster response. i think that's something we have to restore confidence in and the sba will be working to restore integrity to relief efforts. sen. cantwell: i don't know if the chair has had this issue but probably, there are disasters everywhere, and that is the

debate about how the funding model works and taking care of communities who have experienced disasters. urban communities because they have density are taken better care of, and rural communities, i'm not sure we can sustain the border and it gets close down and then all the traffic has to go down i-5. we had an economy that was devastated and people were like we are not going to help you because you don't have the same ratio. i'm like it is a juggernaut of an economy, just because it doesn't have density doesn't mean it's not a problem. the gao concluded sba needs to recognize rural communities extents disasters differently -- not really differently, just not in the same density. as we consider how to make loans

for rural communities more viable, do you think businesses and homeowners, we want them to return to these areas, we don't want them to see community, in our case these are communities that sit on close proximity to the cascades but are a huge tourism economy for the state so they have a big footprint. what are your thoughts on how we implement the change working with colleagues to get a better recognition of the economic impact that disadvantages rural communities? ms. loeffler: i would love to work with you on that, visit your state and understand the dynamics. i grew up in a rural community and i understand you need characteristics of delivering relief. we lived through tornadoes and hail storms and other devastating efforts of recovery together as a community and often the tv cameras were not

there, you were recovering on your own. how can we better ensure disaster relief isn't based on any politics or media profile but where relief is sorely needed to prop up and strengthen economic stability of the tax base of the community, the culture, the people, the generations that live there and the industry and supports and i'd love to work with you. sen. cantwell: sorry to go on, those are important issues and i appreciate the opportunity to ask them and look forward to working on these with you. chair ernst: thank you senator cantwell and i would enjoy working with you on that as well. the state of iowa, we've had challenges with disaster recovery and the cost to benefit ratio. we have struggled with this for a very long time. because of rural areas and just for the audience if i can take the chairs prerogative and share with you, we have many

disasters, flooding in particular in iowa, where many restaurants in downtown rural communities are destroyed, but the cost to benefit ratio is never high enough for the federal government to provide that level of assistance. however, if a restaurant on an eastern or western coast, along the ocean, is destroyed, of course the cost to benefit ratio will be higher, the cost of the restaurant is higher. they are the ones likely to receive disaster assistance but not those of us in the midwest. a home of one size in iowa is much cheaper than a home on the coast but it is still someone's home. it is still someone's business. i think we have a lot of work to do and i would be happy to partner with you. sen. cantwell: i think what a

lot of people don't realize is it is an economy that generates a lot of revenue for your state. it could be an agriculture or tourism economy, it could be a community that offer something different but if you take that out of the middle of your state or where ever it is because the ratio hasn't been addressed correctly, we are losing out on the big picture economics. we have to get people to realize that relationship to the state overall should somehow be considered in the ratio. chair ernst: absolutely and thank you for that input. a number of issues were addressed today during this really productive hearing and thank you for being here and i want to thank president trump for your nomination to the small business administration. i look forward to working with you upon your confirmation into this position and because there

are no other questions, i again want to thank you for your willingness to serve and to be here today and for your family's support of you in this position. we are going to leave the record open until close of business tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. thursday, january 30, from members to submit questions for the record. we will keep the record open for two weeks to edit statements and submit letters and any other relevant materials. without objection, so ordered. senator leffler we would appreciate your prompt response to any other questions submitted. with that the committee on small business and under printer worship stands adjourned -- and entrepreneurship stands adjourned. [applause] [applause] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

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>> live today on c-span, 10 a.m. eastern president trump's nominee for director of national intelligence tulsi gabbard will be on capitol hill today questions about her nomination. this is before the senate select committee on intelligence. on c-span2 at 10 a.m. eastern robert f. kennedy, jr. will be back on capitol hill testifying at a second confirmation hearing. he will take questions from members of the senate h.e.l.p. committee. the u. s. senate returns and will continue work on more of president trump's cabinet nominees including doug burgum to be interior secretary and later chris right to the energy secretary. on c-span at three live at 9:30 a.m. eastern kash patel president trump's picked to lead the fbi will speak to senators about his nomination before the senate judiciary committee. these events all stream live on