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comcast. >> you think this is just a community center? no. it's way more than that. >> comcast is partnering with a thousand community centers to create wi-fi-enabled lift zones so students from low income families can get the tool they need to be ready for anything. >> comcast supports cpan along with these other television providers giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> leaders from the national farmers' union and the american farm bureau federation testified on the state of thing agricultural economy before senate lawmakers. they addressed several topics including the importance of passing a farm bill, the impact of tariffs, improved supply chains and labor challenges. the hearing runs just over three hours. [inaudible conversations] >> i'm delighted now to call the hearing to order.

and i would hike to thank our witnesses for being here today. thank you for leaving your farms and families to travel to washington to share your experiences with us. as a proud arkansas kansan, i'm delighted to have nathan reid and jennifer james here on today's second panel. this hearing is the first in our series of the committee that we will be holding on the current tate of america's rural economy from the perspective of our farmers. ran. ers and rural leaders. these hearings are intended to help inform our decisions to draft a new farm bill and to ensure we are putting forward policies that will help current and future generations of farm if families survive and ultimately thrive in a a very unpredictable world. every member of this committee has heard directly from farmers in their states about the current difficulties that they face. i've been blessed to join

members of the committee to be part of some of these conversations, and and i look forward to continue the dialogue interest rates, el said production costs and depressed commodity prices coupled with a frayed safety net worn out over time have left many producers exposed to financial ruin. since 202022 -- 2022, producers have lost more than $50 billion in net income and net farm income is forecast to continue to decline. farmers are experiencing a scenario where there is no room for error. farm families are looking for the next generation can and trying to determine if this career that requires more sacrifice than most careers is viable. i fear that across the country we are at risk of losing untold numbers of family farms. recently the agriculture and

food policy center of texas a&m university stated that, quote, in 42 years that the food center has been projecting financial performance, the most recent crop outlook for the representative farms is the worst in terms of the number of farms in each of the four commodity the types,9 cotton, grains, rice and wall street that are not currently expected -- and if wheat that are not currently expected to have a positive cash flow over the next five years, end quote. my highest priority for the next farm bill is to improve the farm safety net whereby every farmer in every region will have access toed modernized risk management tools regardless of the commodity that they grow. if we fail to modernize the safety net, agriculture will see further consolidation as a farm families leave the business and the ripple effects to our

country will be truly from profoundment the it is a -- profound. the task before us is great. i look forward to hearing from if today's witnesses, and i now turn to to ranking member klobuchar for her opening comments.

>> corn and wheat are down 37%, cotton down 22 2%x despite these in this again highlights the need for increased programs. we also can't imagine during a time of great economic uncertainty that farmers and ranchers and many small

businesses across the country are anticipating what might be the largest tax increase in america's history. failing to extend the expiring provisions of the tax cuts and jobs act would take billions of dollars out of our farmers' pockets that have no, where they have no spare money anyway. congress must find a way to create a stable business environment by making the expiring provisions permanent. e also believe it's important that the -- i also believe it's important that the committee recognize that the great domestic policy threat to american agriculture is our outdated guest worker program and the labor crisis farmers are facing across the country. in short, the cost is too high, the domestic willingness to work on our farms is way too low, and farm families are shutting down their farms. can and this is heartbreaking -- and this is heartbreaking and has direct and tangible impacts

on our rural communities. why i know it's not under the jurisdiction of this committee, labor is by far the leading issue that i hear talked about and discussed and i get asked about by farmers and ranchers across the country regardless of region or commodity. finally, this week we've seen many actions around a trade with additional tariffs being imposed on our largest trading partners. i want to assure this committee that farm bureau will continue to be the voice of american agoture and its farmers -- agriculture can and its farmers to pursue and advocate for new markets and additional market access forking our agricultural progress products. thank you, senators. thank you for this opportunity to be here today, and i really look forward to the questions. >> thank you, mr. duval. >> thank you. and thank you, senator justice, for the kind introduction. i'm sure i remember when we

bought that corn, our milk production probably went straight up. chairman boozman, ranking member klobuchar, members of the committee, as a sixth generation on the farm in west virginia, i am really proud to be here representing family farmers and ranchers across the country. according to the census of to agriculture, we lost a staggering 140,000 farms in the last phi years. the average farmer -- five years. the average farmer is now nearly 60 years old. the uncertain future of the farm and rural economy adds to anxiety in farm country. at the same time, farmers and ranchers receive only 15 cents on average of every food dollar. consumers are paying higher prices at the store while family farmers and ranchers dealing with tight margins, few market options and increased financial pressure. we must confront these challenges head on. we applaud the committee for quickly taking action this year

to hear from us. the stakes are high not just for farmers and ranchers, but for all the communities that rely on us. passing a strong farm bill is a great place to start. with we appreciated the efforts of chairman boozman and many other can committee leaders at the end of last year to ensure the pass passage of disaster assistance. we cannot afford a third extension of the 2018 farm if bill. congress must act quickly to pass a fully funded farm bill in 2025. of this farm bill should include strengthening the farm safety net and providing farmers with robust risk management if tools, investing in involuntary conservation programs, supporting the next generation of farmers and keeping the farm bill coalition together. a strong farm bill alone is not enough. we also need open and fair agricultural markets. farmers are the backbone of this country.

but too often we're being taken advantage of. as a farmers, we love competition. but often our only option is to buy from or sell to monopolies. resulting in higher cost, fewer choices and less innovation. we're not asking for a guarantee, we're just asking for a fair shot. we have opportunities to make the system work for farmers by protecting if strengthening the -- [inaudible] about, supporting mandatory country of origin labeling like the american beef labeling act led by majority leader thune and ensuring that farmers have, finally, full and complete freedom to repair their own equipment. in addition to to fairness at home, we must also consider fairness in global trade. american family farmers are often the first to suffer from trade disputes. tariffs can be powerful when used in a smart way, but we've

also seen what happens when washington gets it wrong. farm income drops, markets disappear and costs go up. congress should focus on expanding domestic and global markets, holding said partners accountable and ensuring that trade policies are applied carefully to protect and not harm american farmers and ranchers. recent executive actions are creating concern for farmers and communities. no one knows what funding will be available or if programs will have the staff needed to operate. freezing spending and making sweeping decisions without congressional oversight just add as more uncertainty e to an already tough farm economy. we'd encourage this committee to seek charity from the if administration and make sure farmers in rural communities aren't left behind. the in closing, the challenges are daunting but not insurmountable. a strong farm bill, fair markets and smart policies can assure that the next generation has opportunities in agriculture.

farmers' union is ready to work with you to make that a reality and deliver resolutions that will give farmers a fair shot. the last but months we've been visiting with family farmers, and i look forward to sharing some of those stories as we answer questions. thank you. >> thank you. and, again, thank both of you for being here. let me ask you about two or three things. i'll give them to you all at once, and then you can kind of digest them and respond. mr. duvall, as you engage with farmers and ranchers across the country -- and both of you all are so great, you're out and about -- what decisions are you seeing families make as they prepare for the third consecutive year without a modernized farm if safety net? that's one thing. and along with that, can you e will be late on what you see

happening in farm if country if the committee does not properly prioritize risk funding for the risk management tools? and lastly, along with that can you describe the role you see crop insurance playing for farmers? what are you hearing regarding crop insurance improvements in if you can just touch on that for a few minutes. zippy? >> thank you, senator, for your question. decision making on the farm because not having a farm bill has been very difficult for our farmers because we know without a modernized farm bill, the '18 farm bill was a good farm bill. but we've experienced inflation, covid, the cost of production going up. so many things have happened, we're in a different environment today, and y'all mentioned that in your opening statements. we are hearing that maybe 20% or

more of our farmers are going to have difficulties getting operating loans, and we're in a time where that should have already been done, and they should have the seed in the barn ready the start planning. and it's really hitting them at a hard, difficult time. they're telling us they're losing money per acre, corn over $100 an acre losing. they're having to make decisions which crops to plant, which crop not to plant. if i'm not going the plant, do i let that land go and miss the opportunity to have it in the future and someone else rent it in there's so many decisions they're having to to make, and you know, i get the question all the a time, senator, about what worry keeps me up at night, and what keeps me up at night is who's going to farm in the future. 40% of the farmers out there today are over retirement age. most have off the farm jobs the support the habit of farming. and i don't know who's going to be farming in the future if we

don't make make an environment inning agriculture that draws young people to it that can afford to raise a family and create a home in rural communities and support that economy there. that's why the farm bill's so important. now, are risk management, the crop insurance is the corner sovereign of the farm -- cornerstone the of the farm bill. it is where farmers have skin in the game and pay for the premium expect general public has skin in the game to make sure that our food system stays secure from one season to the next because of lower prices, natural disasters or whatever might be happening. it is the cornerstone. the need in that area is we need every farmer regardless of whether he's organic, traditional a, big, small, large, every farmer that takes that that a risk needs some kind of risk management tool, and crop insurance has proven itself

over and over again to be that tool to make sure that they can survive those difficulties. and i think i hit most -- all three -- >> no, very good. thank you. mr. larew. >> there are endless kind of examples of folks both who are well established farmers and those who are trying to make a go at it within the next few years. and challenges are really kind of make or break for a lot of them at this point. i think about a couple of cotton i growers who have been farming for years. who, when trying to seek an operating loan right now after three years of drought and low prices are now facing really tough decisions.

if -- and the bank doesn't know whether they're going to extend that loan. as they are having that tough conversation, it's also apparent that these community banks including the ones they were talking to are also a really struggling out there. and so as they tray to see whether or not they can get the loan going forward, the bank is also trying to make that the tough decision can we afford additional risk on top. i also think about a young farmer in north dakota who was recently sharing an experience about trying to the get more land, to remember more ground to expand operations. and in doing that, a had to invest in some new equipment. and as a result of that, is now, unfortunately, overextended and is nowing having to to sell pennies on the dollar that

pardon me if equipment and is seek ising -- farm equipment and is seeking to still pay off the loan, the financing for that and doesn't know whether or not farming is in his future. these are really just the kind of stories whether it's the more established folks who are eating through their equity and putting their operations at a risk or new and beginning farmers who don't have yet that that deep well of experience and equity that they can burn right now. so those needs for risk management tools including crop insurance are absolutely essential. i hope that as the committee considers what to include in the farm bill, that looking for ways to not to only strengthen the existing options there, but look for additional ways to help support beginning farmers with that. and if also creative ways to bring more into those risk management tools. i think that would be a great place to start.

>> thank you. senator klobuchar. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. and i will ask at another time, i appreciated you raising, mr. duvall, the ag with labor issues which i think while you are right, we may not have jurisdiction over immigration on this committee, we can be a voice when it comes to farm labor. and and thank you for your. comments, mr. larue, on consolidation. just over the weekend the president announced 25% if tariffsen canada and mexico. just talked about them. additionally, 10% tariffs on china. those went into effect yesterday. and even though the implementations of the tariffs on canada and mexico have been delayed for 30 days, it's created incredible uncertainty in the farm farm country. both of your organizations put out statements on mid maizing -- raising alarms on the potential implications, and and i ask unanimous consent, mr. chairman, to put those letters on the

record. >> without objection. >> to both of you, the canadian government announced a long slate of u.s. products that would be subject to retaliatory tariffs if these went into effect including baked goods, fresh foot and -- foot and vegetables, dairy products. canada has been a billion plus market for all these products. how will this retaliation and associated market impacts affect the farmers that you represent? okay. mr. larew. >> yeah. thanks for the question. i would start, first, with not only the potential implications of these tariffs in place, but the real kind of experience that we're hearing out there about suppliers of fertilizer and if other goods who are already adding costs on to goods that -- we're hearing some places that are not selling for delivery

products beyond a certain date because of the threat of the do -- is so i think, first of all, there's the very real hajjs right now. i was just in columbus, indiana, talking to a farmer who the whole final we were talking was on the phone trying to get product across the canadian border before any potential threat there. meanwhile when, costs were going up. so i think that the threat brings real impact and, certainly, we just have the last experience that we had with china to kind of look at the combination if of things from lost markets, increased costs adding to already kind of increased inflation and so forth. so the costs are across the board. >> okay. and just to add a little bit here, mr. duvall, a recent study depending on the type of retaliation with the loss in value, this is from corn growers and soybean association, for just their crops range between $4.8 billion and 7.4 billion.

and we would be losing market share to competitors in bra a civil and argentina. and that's just as a result of the tariffs in china alone. does -- could you just talk about the long-term damage you could do with trading partners that this even the uncertainty of this? their just going to -- they're just going to look for products in other countries. >> senator, you said it well, and that's been one of the concerns, the potential of shrinking the markets. because countries and companies can just decide to go buy it elsewhere where they have reliability to the market and don't have the excess. and we do see our competitors in brazil continue to do the wrong things to expand their production down there to compete with us. it makes it very difficult on our farmers. the shrinkage of the market, we need more access, not less. we need more fair trade deals,

not less. we need this administration because we haven't seen it for almost a decade now really getting fair trade deals to be put in place and stick with good rules and keep people working under it. the other issue is the cost of production. i think you said it yourself, over 80% of the potash comes out of canada that goes on our cropland, and that would be devastating to our farmers. just that one example is difficult for our farmers. >> okay, thank you. >> so we're very appreciative of the president and his negotiation skills, and he has proven if himself right in the past in the first administration and had some success, and we're looking forward to having more success. but we're very appreciative of his negotiations going on now to be able to delay it for 30 days and see if we can bring some common sense solutions to these problems, because we need less interruptions in the supply system. it's our job to create a food

system for our people in this country that they can afford and is reliable. we do not want to go back to the days that interrupt this food system like we saw during covid. and there's several things going on right now -- >> thanks. i just want to get one more, one more question here. will mr. larew -- we have heard from a lot of your members there's sift difficulty in accessing the conservation program. this is something that congress, you know, had -- you know, article i, we had actually set up these programs. what would be the implications of slowing down these programs for farmers and really is -- the same when it comes to nutrition when it comes to making sure as we go forward that those programs remain strong? >> yeah. we're taking stories from all across the country of producers who are certainly dealing with a lot of uncertainty and a lot of expenses that are due to be reimbursed because they had a commitment, a contract for

certain activities with usda. so they've made that investment. we've all talked about tight margins. i think it's worth just highlighting the fact that it's that all-farm if income that covers it. and so having at this typical, at this really critical phase right now of that economic pressure if having usda delayed with a lot of uncertainty about whether or not it will actually come through is adding to that economic pressure on the uncountryside. >> thank you. >> senator mcconnell. >> let's stay on the subject of tariffs. most people don't think of bourbon as an agricultural product but, in fact, it is. to give you an idea with of how the canadians are already reacting to the potential of a

said war -- trade war, there are stories about taking american bourbon off the shelves already. to send us a messagement -- message. my view is if threatening of imposing tariffs produces something and you don't actually do it, maybe there's an argument for them. but what i worry about -- and i mow all of us up here are concerned about it -- what happens to the $3 billion that we export from from kentucky every year? and i can't think of any part of the american economy that's more dependent on international relationships and trade than agriculture. so new question is, and it's not unique, i think it's already been asked and maybe adequately addressed by you, if we actually

get into a trade war. and, by the way, remember, everybody, that the current trade relationship between canada and mexico was negotiated by this administration before and bragged about. but, obviously, that that seems not to be enough. here we are on the cusp of getting into this. if we do, what happens to american agriculture? if -- >> so the president in his first term always said he'd love his farmers and he'd stand behind them. he made that commitment to me verbally, and he did. our farmers want to have open markets. they don't want payments. of course, in the instance where with we are being harmed for the

protection of our food system, for the protection of national security for our food system, we have to to look outside of open markets and do something to make sure our farmers can survive the trade war. but that's not exactly what we want. we want the markets themselves. but this president's delivered that the first if time, and we've had a seat at the table with him, and we look forward to continuing to communicate with him on those issues. but it could be devastating to agriculture if we're not paying attention to what happens. and not just agriculture. i'm here to represent agriculture, but we're here representing rural communities and the consumer of our products which is the american people. and it's going to affect the availability of it, it's going the affect the cost of it, and it's going the affect the way we can do business at home on our farms. >> thank you, senator. just building on zippy's remarks because i certainly echo a lot

of what he just said here, our reliability as a trading partner out there is certainly at a major risk in a situation. and i think we are still certainly in some commodities feeling the effects of the last trade war that we had. also, you know, even as our members at the grass roots policy-making process recognize that the use of tariffs strategically can, as you pointed out, achieve some results. but knowing that we stand on the front lines of some of that retaliation really puts a lot of things at risk. and would just restate the fact that we want competition. we want to receive our income from the fair and open market, not just payments. >> isn't it true -- one more, mr. chairman, if i may. season it true that many historians looking at the

1930s thought the smoot-hawley trade war exacerbated the great depression? you guys are not familiar with that? [laughter] >> not going to speak -- >> not yo -- in your with lain, huh -- lane, huh? >> senator, i may be old, but i'm not that old. my grandfather told me it was very difficult. >> yeah, there were a lot of things that that contributed to the depression, but that was widely thought by historians of that particular period as contributing to the economic problems not only that we had, but others around the world had. thank you. >> senator -- [inaudible] >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you to the witnesses for being here. i want to say to the leader before leaves, to leader mcconnell, the good news is

that the product that he has from his commonwealth that he's worried about is of deep concern to states all over the united states of america. and is the lubrication of our democracy and our economy in many ways. i think that a lot of people feel his pain. and i, i also want to mention somebody that i know, jim ehrlich, who with's the san luis valley in colorado, we were celebrating yesterday his retirement as the head colorado's potato council where he has fought for years and years and years to open markets for potato growers in our state, in mexico and other places. you know of his successes, you know of their successes. it's a reminder of why this trade discussion is not academic or theoretical or id logical for our farmers and ranchers. it's something they're working on every single day because it is the only place at least for the producers many colorado

where at least in the medium term we're going to see -- and it grows which is expanding our export markets for our folks. and it's also not theoretical because we know, as a mr. larew said, that in the last round of these tariffs, in the last round of this trade war according to usda it cost agriculture $27 billion. and the agriculture doesn't want to be paid, as mr. duvall said, through these payments. that's not how they want to be paid. they want to be paid because they're producing and they're selling in markets around the world. and my curiosity for you is why agriculture is the focus of our adversaries around the world in terms of their response to trade barriers like the ones that are

being threatened by the united states right now? why is, why is american agriculture where they are likeliest to retaliate if that's how we approach it just as china did the last time, just as we're seeing canada and mexico do this time? and is it because they understand how tough our producers have it already, one, and, two, what it means for families -- and, zippy, you mentioned a little bit -- what it means for families who are at the grocery store right now already facing higher prices. could the two of you address that? >> well, in terms of why they are doing it, i think you raise a number of really important pieces. probably to speak to the trading partners themselves on exactly the cause, but i think that the impacts that we know are likely to happen, the economic stress as you highlighted really across

agriculture and the dependence that a lot of our not only value-added products, but also commodities out there are absolutely dependent not only on exporting, but also on being able to receive inputs from a variety of places. so having that kind of combination of increased -- for farming and also lower prices for our products is a double whammy. >> senator, historically we've always been the first one here, and i think -- and this is just my if opinion, you asked my opinion, it's the most essential thing in life. we think this is important. it's the first thing we pick up -- >> actually, i'd like to throw mine and yours in the potomac river: but go ahead: that's another -- >> but we think it's the most essential thing, but we can't even accept what comes out if we don't have the nourishment to

run our bodies. and i think if you look across this country, in most states agriculture is the leading industry in that state, and it supports the economy of this country can and every community -- >> that's well said. that's true in colorado, and i think as the chairman said and as the ranking member said, our farmers are feeling stress for all kinds of reasons already, you know? not the least of which is we haven't gotten a farm bill passed. but to add this on top of everything else is the last thing we need. with the last 20 seconds, i also wanted to respond, mr. duvall, to what you said about farm labor. i want to just underscore, you said it's the number one issue facing the people that you're representing x. this is something we've worked on a long time here. you and i have had lot of conversations about it over the years, and i have been very clear that i believe we need to secure the southern border of the united states. and i've been disappointed. and the previous

administration's work on that. but it doesn't mean that a that's sufficient. we need to figure out how to create a system so that we support our farm workers and we support our producers and we don't lose these farmers and ranchers to mexico which is what's going happen if we don't figure it out. thank you for raising it, and i look forward to working with you and others, the farm workers, to address it. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you. senator hogan. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i'd like to thank both of you for your work if helping us at your end, particularly with the disaster assistance. you both were very important to that effort, and i want to publicly acknowledge you. and it's very important we got it done. based on both of your opening remarks, i don't know how anybody could not be aware that to get the new farm bill done, we need affordable crop insurance and updated reference prices in ark and plc. would both of you agree with that? >> yes. >> yes. >> updated prices in ark and

plc, would both of you adamantly agree with that? >> yes. >> yes. >> thank you. [laughter] regarding tariffs, in the first round president trump used tariffs to try to negotiate better trade deals. for not just farmers and ranchers, but manufacturers too. and the chinese did retaliate, and we put in place through our ag-approps committee the program that ultimately president trump was able to negotiate a $50 billion deal for agriculture. and i think, mr. duvall, you referenced how prices were good up until 2022, and they've declined precipitously since then. so in regard to tariffs, how -- what kind of strategy would you advise the administration if undertaking? if what advice would you give brook rollins and our trade ambassador and the administration, president trump, many term of how best to

undertake that negotiation from an ag perspective? and we want fair markets. free markets, but we want fair markets. and we don't have fair markets. other countries take advantage of us, and we need to deal with it. the president tends to do that. >> that's exactly what we support, access and fair markets. you know, we have the perfect example of what happened during covid. we have a supply system that supplies food to this country from our farms to our forks. and any interruption, any interruption in that system is going to cause tremendous problems at all levels, all links of that chain. any interruption. and so we just can't afford to do that. is so during covid we said that the workers in the food system was essential. what's essential mean? we've got to have it. so you've got to find some way to exempt it out of so we don't interrupt it. i grow chickens for will -- for

a living. when they deliver that chicken, they already know what day it's going to be harvested and where it's going to go. if you interrupt that system, it hurts everything between me and the fork. we cannot afford it. our people won't stand for it in this country, and agriculture needs to be identified as an essential -- not agriculture, but the food system which includes agriculture needs to be identified as an essential part of our everyday lives for every american across this country. >> mr. larew? >> thank you for the question, because i think it's really important right now. certainly, the message that we shared the last time we had the tariffs in place and that we would share again is everyone knows that china is a bad actor in this. and even as the administration if was able to kind of achieve the phase one agreement and dibble kind of benefits there -- and additional kind of benefits

there which we're really encouraging, we know they end up falling back on those promises. so we would certainly encourage wherever possible that the u.s., who is not alone in having a bag relationship with china, to work with allies. to come together to try to address a lot of those challenges. that said, if we know that retaliation is imminent, making sure that through example that you said with the market a facilitation loan, that we already have plans in place should we reach that point of retaliation with or impact directly on the farms. so much to zippy's point here, there is certainty, there's continuity out there because too much is at stake to have that disruption. >> i think that's an important point there. so i would emphasize and, again, ask both of you both in terms of the disaster assistance and then also whatever programs we need to make sure we keep our farmers

in the game while we go through these negotiations to get them better access to markets, that we can work closely with you, with the associations not only farmers' union and farm bureau, but all the commodity groups as we go through that process and your commitment to work together on that. >> we would welcome it, thanks. >> and that is our job. our job is not to be critical of one party or the other or one president, administration, another president, it's our voice to be the job -- job to be the voice of the farmers across this country and express the concerns of the policies being considered. it's our job to do that, and i know my friend here and i have committed to making sure we express those concerns. and we'll express if congratulations when we accomplish something. >> and be helpful in the process. >> yes, sir. we look forward to working with that. >> thank you, both. >> thank you. senator smith. >> well, thank you, chair boozman and ranking member klobuchar. welcome, both of you, to our

panel. i think the last time i saw both of you, we were on another panel together at farmfest in minnesota last rainy august, so it's good to see you again. i also just want to take a moment the e well come -- to well mr. tim diehl to the committee today. he's a fourth generation minnesota farmer and is on the min-d a ac sugar beet cooperative board and is here with the american sugar beet growers. so welcome to the committee many. and i also just want to associate myself with the comments that that have been made by the ranking member and ores -- others about the crucial importance of getting around farm labor and, of course, the trade conversation we're having. i think it's vitally important. but i want to focus if i can for a minute on -- i've got to tell you, i'm just really concerned about the trump administration, doge, federal employee buyout and hiring freeze that's happening. and what impact that could have, will have on usda, impact on the food and ag sector, access to

disaster assistance, risk management tools and ultimately how this could hurt consumers. for example, just morning we heard reports about food inspection -- food safety inspectors taking the federal employee buyout which could result in not having enough inspectors in minnesota meat processing facilities, understanding minnesota's a huge producer of hogs and largest turkey producer in the country. and another example, you know, we've had a lot of reports from minnesotans and i think around the country about challenge challenges with staffing at fsa and the rnrcs staff at the local offices and how -- what a barrier that is to farmers getting access, a trusted partner to the help them navigate and get the assistance that they need. so i want to just note that last year with i worked with senator rickets with the usda to get some recommendations back on what we canned do to do better

there. and we got some good recommendations back, so that's a start in the right direction, but i don't want to lose that momentum. so i'm wondering, could each of you comment briefly on what impact staff reductions in local usda offices would have on your farmer members given these office as are already understaffed? >> well, it's already occurring right now. there's a lot of uncertainty out there in those county offices, and in spite of the fact that we are the envy of the world in having those usda personnel in those county offices that direct connection to farmers and ranchers for the important usda programs, staffing and the continuity of those operations is a challenge, i think as you were saying. right now that's just being exacerbated. we're even hearing the return the office, we don't have folks who even have an office -- >> that's right.

haven't had an office for years. this has nothing to do with can covid. >> that's right. we're hearing those stories. and just, you know, one thing we are leaning into is the national farmers' union signed a memorandum of understanding with usda toward the latter part of last year to look and value a wait at staffing opportunities, if you will, in the future, ways to make service better and improved. a the that doesn't necessarily mean additional staff, but making sure that the programs that we depend on can function. >> right. exactly. exactly. mr. duvall, if you'd like to comment briefly on this, and i'm hoping to get in another question. >> sure, i'll do it quickly. the last two secretaries had extensive conversations about the lack of help many our county offices -- in our county offices. and as far as your meat packing in inspectors, we have farmers that want to go directly to consumers, but they have to schedule their meat if processing two years out -- meat processing. you understand the cow's going

to carry the calf for nine months. two years out to be able to get a kill date, harvest date, and that is not a good situation. so this is just going to compound the situation. >> yeah. thank you. so i appreciated also you both bringing up the challenges of new and beginning farmers getting into the business, this giant generational transfer that is undergoing. and i also note, mr. larew, you talking about how it is in this country today farmers are keeping only about 15 cents out of every farm dollar -- food dollar, pardon me, and are often in the position of buying and selling monopolies. i think these things are all related. one of the reasons it's hard to get into farming is because of the concentration. one of the reasons that farmers are not making a good income is because they're just not in a strong market position compared the these large conglomerates that are dictating prices not only from how much they're paying for input costs, but as a well how much they're going to get for that turkey or that, you know, or beef. this is something i really

respect senator grassley for his work on this. i know that this is very important and is an issue of bipartisan interest. so in the just, i guess, no minutes left i have, maybe if you could just briefly comment on how you see your members being affected by this market consolidation. >> oh, fors across the -- it's across the board. certainly, there are opportunities as a result of that consolidation, and that includes things for direct to consumer as noted here. >> yes. and and you're exactly right. and the pressures on small and medium-sized farms, and you recognize yourself, with the advantages of being large you can buy cheaper. of the pressure's even more. and the american people, the american people love medium, small-sized family farms, and that's what they want to exist and want to be able to buy their commodities from. and every time we put a regulation in or something like this, it makes it more difficult for them to stay on their farms. >> thank you very much, mr. chair.

>> senator grassley. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and thank you folks for attending. mr.-- zippy, i've been a member of the farm bureau since 1956. before i ask any of you questions, i've got a short statement. ..

we have a system that we describe and i have heard secretaries of agriculture describe as nothing more than a modern-day sharecropper farming system and we know how that turned out years and years ago, it was not good. we need transparency. we need our farmers need the permit pay to be changed so they have a base pay not only for them but their bankers that depending on them to make payments on the families depending on them to make a

living. that transparency will help us understand what people don't understand about animal agriculture, especially in integrated system when the chicken is delivered to me on my firm there are three things that go into how it performs. the environment it lives in, that's my responsibility and i have computers of people making sure it's perfect at all times. my wife will accuse me of taking better care of my chickens than my children because they were warmer. second is the quality of feed i have absolutely no control over. third and all of us deal with animal agriculture understand how important genetics is we have absolutely no control over genetics so 2 to 3 legs to determine how the chicken is going to perform is not controlled by the farmer and she should have the transparency to understand what is behind the chicken because we all know an animal agriculture depends on the age

of the mother how they are taken care of and the quality of the genetics. >> to come a little bit different on the same subject explain how changing the moving pieces of the rule could negatively impact poultry producers, if you. i'm raising that question because there might be something coming down the road when you have a new expiration. >> we think that the rules should continue to stay in place. to your point building on the questions here, bringing certainty and transparency is absolutely crucial. i think there are ideas and ways to continue to improve not only contract growers and poultry but other sections that also have room for improvement when we look at transparency

that is true and poultry and across the rest of livestock. >> i'm going to submit questions for answer in writing but i want to make one final point, i hope you can work hard for the around nationwide because that's can help commodity prices more than a lot of things we can do. think you. >> happy to support. >> thank you mr. chairman thank you ranking member for holding the hearing today. and for witnesses joining us today as well. mr. devol on the website the farm bureau describes title iv nutrition programs as " reaching all lovers of supply chain from the farmers growing produce to the grocery store employee who puts it on the shelf. mr. devol do ããduvall do you

agree that the ããhave a positive economic impact on farmers who grow the food being purchased using these dollars? i do. >> i want to take a minute to talk about the history of the farm bill since nutrition title was first added to the farm bill in 1973, the year after i was born, farmers antihunger advocates democrats and republicans all have come together consistently to pass a farm bill that ensures if we go by the farmers makes it onto the plates of americans. unfortunately there are proposals being considered right now that would undermine decades of success and disrupt the broad are partisan collision that has historically would proposals to cut nutrition programs.

>> what it impeded? >> i would think that would be a difficult conversation i think that is the conversation y'all would be having. it's our job to represent all the farm bill we do know the benefits and we do support nutrition programs stop we also know that there is a way smaller percentage that goes to helping support system for farmers to make sure it gets from one season to the other and that has been way too long of broadening the baseline. >> we all agree that there needs to be support for the farmers and food producers all across america stop there's also been a grand bargain to work with colleagues on all sides of this to say we should

support farmers and managers and nutrition programs nutrition programs are designed to get people to hand up in difficult times in their life and we support that. >> amen to that. americans wake up with fresh produce on their tables and cold milk in the fridge due to the hard work and dedication of this country's farmworkers as well. these workers are an integral part of our country's agricultural economy and work every day to families across america. response to that sacrifice has been the brightest others due to some of their efforts as we see going on right now i raised this with mr. ããwho i believe will be the next secretary of agriculture for the united states of america. mr. duvall, did you know the usda estimates are roughly half the workforce undocumented? >> yes sir, the number is 40%.

>> do you think farmers and ranchers and agricultural operations to depend on the labor will survive roughly half the workforce is unavailable? >> first i would like to say so they can deliver their crops on time good quality. >> what happens all you will use your number what happens at 40% of the workforce of farmers and managers disappears.>> it would be devastating to agricultural you would see firms go out of business and we could see interruption in our system like song in covid. >> this is an area i think we can work on one of the strongest bipartisan bills that came out of the house recently with farmworkers with agriculture with finding a way to get it done. we didn't get it through the senate but it's one of the

strong tools i believe we could look at as well and make sure we have a stronger system. we can have strong border security and fix broken immigration system and do this in a bipartisan way. first attention should be what's gonna happen to farmers and ranchers when it comes to lowering costs for the american people when it comes to fruit on it comes to making sure or farmers and ranchers have the tools they need to be able to grow those crops collect those crops keep them strong keep them moving. i look forward to that as well and i appreciate this hearing and i appreciate your time being here. >> thank you senator hyde smith. >> thank you mr. chairman thank you to our witnesses for being here we have so many witnesses that some of you have already met with, we certainly appreciate you taking your time to come to capitol hill because you are truly helping us help you. so i want to tell you how grateful i am for that.

as we know, it is no secret that the same economy is headed in the direction right now. the u.s. farm economy 23 euros bag, 24 was horrendous and the upcoming crop year is not looking very pretty as well. farm income has dropped roughly $41 billion over the last two years. the worst decline we've ever seen in our trade deficit is expected to reach a record high of 45.5 billion fy2021 five, this is the deficit we are looking at. use to brag about our trade surplus and we are certainly not in that position right now and putting costs through the roof. the crop prices are lower today than they were 15 years ago. the federal farm safety net is not providing adequate support

to keep farmers and ranchers afloat. i have certainly been pulling the alarm on this because i know the seriousness of this. but because of this, producers across the country are literally going out of business and in short, u.s. agriculture is in trouble stop but when u.s. agriculture is in trouble and the farms are in trouble more importantly, those who are most in trouble are the ones. rural america is definitely in a crisis mode and partly because congress has yet to come to terms with the fact that commodity support programs under title i of the farm bill title i of the farm bill which

is the vital component of the farm safety net accounts for roughly 5% of the farm bill baseline. five percent.that's all. when folks say more farm in the farm bill, this is what they are talking about. it is so essential we let americans know the problems that we have in the seriousness of this. we know that when you stop production if you shut down all the production on the west coast if you shut down the slaughter facilities culturally banking plant shutdown the confines for 30 days we would have enough food to view this country for maybe 30 days. it's consumption is consistent, constantly eating every day of what we are trying to provide so we have to provided everyday. we are the ones that.

mr. duvall, would you agree that commodity programs under title i deserves significant improvement and a significant investment? >> i would agree with that. >> the u.s. farm economy would be in a different place right now if congress had made these proper investments and enacted a youth farm bill a year ago would you agree with me on that? >> congress should invest ããi totally agree with that. >> and congress should invest in the next farm bill as soon as possible to prevent today's problems we are experiencing to get even worse than what they are. >> i would agree with that too. >> mr. duvall, as you know, agriculture is number one industry and primary economic driver in our state as we have discussed earlier in many states. i recently have been hearing that stakeholders across mississippi in the country are concerned about the future access to crop protection tools

and biotechnology products. without these, mississippi farmers, farmers from all the states that are represented here today, we cannot produce a viable crop. farmers in the south are subject to some of the most notorious insects and weeds in the whole world and they have overcome this, what's considered impossible, thanks to these amazing scientific innovations. that the industry mississippi state university so many strides have been made in my lifetime i've seen yields increase 400% because of these strides. we cannot stop this, this is national security. you think the country will fight a war over oil, let them get hungry and it's our job to do that and i so appreciate the diligence both of you impressed on me with your determination to do that because we are

definitely in this together we've got everybody has to be on board. will you please elaborate and just how much is at risk if we abandon the science-based approach to regulating crop section and biotechnology? >> it is absolutely critical that we continue to have faith in the system that provides science base tools that we use on our farm. 110,000 products makes it to market. 110,000 takes almost 11 years to get a product to the market. we've got 355 epa or whichever it is making sure those things are safe and our farmers apply according to the label because they live they all may live and grow their families work on their families work on the farm

where they are applying the ãã nobody's gonna go there family allowing the office in the land they invested generations and generations in improving. and if you could look at my farm today versus what it was when my grandfather bought it which was ditches and gullies and codes going on it because of the things he didn't do right doing when cotton was king, you would see that for decades our farmers and ranchers of done the right thing to regenerate this souls because mine is a rolling field where cows graze now they've done the right things to grow more with less they've done the right things to use less crop protection tools to grow more and everything that we've done has been good for the consumer for the farm land and also for the environment. >> thank you so much for your

answer and god bless the farmer and mr. wells i believe you are up. >> thank you and much of what you said i agree with. i'm so impressed with your testimony. and what's so interesting to me is so many of the things that you said we had two family from vermont they would be saying the same thing. the other thing that i think is an opportunity for this committee, we all care on this committee about rural america. vermont to the dairy farming vegetable farming is the backbone. those of us who don't farm benefit by those who do farm. i just want to express my appreciation. we have an opportunity in this divided country by focusing on the needs of agriculture in each of our areas. to try to bring us together because we all do value activity that is different in vermont and west virginia or in georgia. so i want to go through a few questions, the right to repair,

how in the world, farmers are really good at fixing things, why can't they just fix whatever it is they can fix so i support right to repair, that brings the cost down, right? >> absolutely. cost not only in terms of equipment and parts and labor but also the time that's often lost in harvest and delays in getting it 㦠>> let me just make a point. the commodity price we have to deal with in order to make sure there is a safety net is one-sided but if we can bring the cost down that helps as well, right? >> absolutely. >> tariffs, one of he was talking about ããwe had a meeting in vermont and that's what they talked about, one of our grain suppliers who really works very closely with the farmers they are going to get hammered if the price goes up

and we get most of it from canada. my view on tariffs is do no harm that should be the starting policy. would you agree with that? >> we are already seeing the effects. >> we sent do that to our hard-working farmers. also, my understanding is the last time we had tariffs a lot of our midwest farmers lost farming to brazil. do you see that as a possibility if it could happen again? >> very much so. you all talked about how hard it is for young farmers to get involved and that certainly is true in vermont everything is really difficult. we introduced a bill on farm ownership. the farm ownership improvement act and what it would do allow for preapproval and prequalification process that is in the farm ownership improvement act that benefits farmers were starting this

preapproval cuts the red tape does that make sense? as an option. >> we are definitely in support. >> i appreciate that. and another thing, the weather act we are getting wild weather i know you had it in west virginia and georgia we certainly had it in vermont, crops got wiped out we have to have an insurance program these are vegetable by a large. the hassles these farmers had to go through they have it count for like each type of vegetable, carrots, how many onions they use how many radishes they used they went by wholesale price when all the farmers sell at the farmers market for retail. don't you think it's time to change that? >> definitely. you guys are doing a great job i've got to say, and the hope is that senator marshall and i have worked together on a lot of things including this but we've got to take the rhetoric out. farm labor you mentioned immigration is a big issue,

very controversial and political but you know it's very simple if you don't have farm labor in vermont you don't milk the cows and so you are with us on trying to do something that gives stability for farm labor so our farmers who absolutely have to have the labor are able to get the job done, right?>> absolutely. >> thank you. another thing, i'm going to say this, it's black history month i want to celebrate and i know there's a lot of young black farmers who'd like to get back on the land many families especially in the south did lose the foothold they have so my hope is that that will include folks who lost their land through historical reasons. i won't ask you to comment but i know you know any young farmer is a farmer we want to get on the land with you both agree with that? >> yes.

>> i appreciate hearing from you. i do think the work you are doing has the potential for us to unify and do things that get farmer stronger in our world community stronger so thank you very much i look forward to working with you i look forward to working with my colleagues. >> it's kind of lonely up here today. everyone's out voting i'm sure more will come back in a moment but i want to talk about farmer mental health first second and farmer suicide this is something near and dear to my heart for many reasons. over the past several years we tried to go out in the communities doing roundtables trying to connect the dots. the resources are out there to help and i want to back up and say to all my farmers and ranchers that the pressure is very real. the pressure of losing 67

generation firm to be that person that can keep the farm together in the family, that's an immense amount of pressure. then i wanted to talk about solutions.i know american farm bureau's have been out here trying to connect the dots as well and are resources and appreciate the education programs are doing with the farmers and trying to work with lenders out there in the lenders some of the first people to see the signs and symptoms of depression and i think we are making progress but it's still tough times and add land ag land. please talk about pharmaceutical and what american farmers are trying to do to help us in the situation. >> are organizations i worked arm in arm to try to bring awareness to this. this is a difficult subject to talk about. this survey and georgia florida area the alarming fact we heard

is that young farmers, i will try to get you the statistics correctly because i'm going off memory less than 10 years 50% had considered suicide and that 10 years. i'm a crusty old farmer and when my wife died i was balled up inside. they say we don't talk about our feelings. i was wrong, it's okay to not be okay but it's not okay not to talk about it. we've got to get rid of the stigma that goes along with it. and the only way to do that is to talk to farmers, make farmers and the families aware to be noticeable what's going around. just like you're working with the farm credit system because they see them every day. the farmer in minnesota, him and his son they ate breakfast one morning before they went to

church came back from church had lunch together. the talked about financial issues the farm and before the sun went down the dad has taken his life. that cannot continue to happen that's a disaster. >> i encourage everybody to be a good neighbor. most of us notice when our neighbor suddenly is not going to church or not going to a ballgame and some of those very subtle things out there we are all aware. sometimes all it takes is a text message ããbeing a good neighbor. you talked about farmers selling to monopolies. how do we put farmers back in control. what else can we do to get the farmer more options. i'm sure you thought about this. >> absolutely, i really appreciate the question because the challenges are very real. if we look at those raising cattle. it's a whole combination of things it's making sure that

first we are not doing any harm in terms of our trading relations, making sure we have the existing resources out there for processing continues so that the market flow continues. at the end of the day, we still have a highly concentrated beef market and this is true across agriculture the opportunity for collusion and manipulation of the market is too great. whatever we can do to reinforce the law on the books. not necessarily seeking new laws. to enforce our antitrust regulations and also to make sure i think those are great places to start we are all starting to invest in additional processing and marketing opportunities so it's a combination of things along the line.

>> one thing we push towards for beef to be pushed across state lines with the state inspection trying to provide farmers and ranchers with easier access to the markets as well. >> in the world of technology there's got to be a better more efficient way of doing it. rather than the way we are doing it. and make sure the availability is out there. as they get in those positions they tend to go out of business it takes away from the farmers to be able to utilize it. >> next we need to turn to the senior senator from the great state of kansas. >> i am pleased to be here in my debut hearing as a newest

most junior member of the senate committee on agriculture i appreciate the opportunity to be fact checked fully engage in this arena. i want to raise a couple things. i would like for you to highlight for the committee and for the administration for the new secretary something that we have highlighted to her and others as recently as this morning with conversation with usda personnel the quick implementation of disaster systems just a reminder of why that matters and it's a matter of and needs to be a matter of days and weaker so not a matter of months or longer. please briefly tell me why that's important. >> we need the secretary placed in her position and we look forward to that because sooner we can do that the sooner we can get it out, it's absolutely critical we do this because we

been put in a situation because we do not have a modernized five-year farm bill it's been kicked on the road two years we appreciate the extension but it's not solve the problem. >> we already talked about the economic challenges out there that are ongoing not only looking back, the need to get that rolled out as quickly as possible is actually paramount. >> my next comment might not be a question but it is something i want to highlight that you both indicated. i think it was you, mr. president. the farm bureau president, mr. duvall, representation not just of farmers representation of the communities they live in, rural america i really think this is hugely important to the country as well as the people who want to raise their families in a place we all call home. i would highlight the things we face that you have policy positions and input, we talked about tariffs and disaster systems. the tax provisions zippy you mentioned those in your opening

statement the continuation of those positions. that has huge consequences on farmers obviously. to determine whether or not my hospital doors estate open whether or not the grocery stores, for a long time i indicated where i come from economic development is often whether or not there's a grocery store in town. that requires it suggests to me we need to have a complete focus on how do we get commodity prices up.

you both have mentioned it is i would welcome your input on what countries stand out to you that are trying for us to reach a bilateral trade agreement. i will pause there for the answer. >> the first one that comes to mind is india. >> i agree the existing markets we have we rely on outlaw. >> occasionally i will have someone in kansas a farmer to indicate taking care of ourselves i'm all for doing that. but taking care of ourselves in the case of agriculture, trade, exports, my answer sometimes ã

ãwhat 40% of the acres in kansas do not want to plant we produce more than we can consume. therefore, all the opportunities we need for exports all the opportunities we need for trade all the opportunities we need to utilize the commodity outcome the output and the other products including doable fuels becomes all the more important what i'm missing? >> yes we need to take care of ourselves but if we don't 20% of our income is from exports what we do we have a bad year? we fall short if we produce for ourselves that's all it's critical we maintain the trade treaties because it's a big part of the income and stabilize our system in case of an emergency.>> and additionally on top of that, there's domestic opportunities whether it's investing in those communities with products such as biofuel. the domestic opportunities have to be continually invested in

as well. >> finally, my conversation with usda this morning along with the chairman of the committee the chairman of the appropriations subcommittee on agriculture dealt with what we believe to be true is that $560 million worth of food commodities is sitting in ports awaiting the ability to be moved to places where people are starting. while there is certainly a moral component to food aid thought it might be valuable for you to remind me if there's a value to farmers. i remember in the last trump administration i was driving through kensington kansas piled on railroad avenue kensington the town of a few thousand people elevator long railroad the grain piled on the ground was the highest as the leader.

we need in addition to traded exports what role this food in a play in helping farmers have a better outcome in their economics. >> any food that helps in the economic picture for farmers it's important to realize that we support deficiencies. we want it done in an efficient way and not be wasteful.we also have to think about this is still ability of the world. i have the opportunity to have a general song mary into my family and he is retired now but i remember distinctly having a conversation he said what you do brings more stability to this world than anything else because when you people get hungry they get mean and mad and get jealous of our country that has everything available to them. >> are members certainly recognize both the humanitarian need for that food aid would

also be impact it can have in terms of free instability to our markets and so forth and particularly now a lot of pressure on the commodities. >> everyone in this room knows the state of agriculture economy is in dire straits we are in trouble. is not getting much better. farmers are struggling producers have lost over $40 billion in the farm income since 2022. we cannot stay on the same

track. yet the cost of production. >> we need to ensure that ãã mr. duvall in your testimony discussed the importance of expiring provisions of president trump 2017 tax cuts and jobs act to keep farmers in business can you discuss the tax provisions that producers rely upon the most? >> yes i can. one, it provided for reduced tax rate most by farmers 90%

are operating on a pass-through entity. that's important to them. section 190 9a is important to them. it preserves 20% business income deduction. action 179 also needs to be continued, it's called bonus depreciation it allows farmers to reinvest in their business so they can eat the goals that the country has whether for conservation climate whatever it may be. we have to have that bonus depreciation and then the last one we spoke about young farmers and the beginning farmers state taxes. estate taxes needs to be illuminated, it needs to be eliminated so we can continue to pass farms on for generations to come and make sure to bring stability to our food system.

their land their home they keep it in production so many pressures on that land and staying in production. this pressure makes it unbelievable. >> we need to listen the agriculture $45.5 billion. america has the best farmers what suggestions do you have to improve trade and close the gap. >> will gotta have new agreements who got open up the market we can compete with anybody in the world as long as

we are allowed to use innovation in the research. >> as long as the farmers are led by voluntary base programs we will do anything in this country asked us to do and we proven that in conservation by putting over 100 million anchors into conservation over the last few decades that's the size of california new york state together. >>. >> from extreme weather events and looming trade war just to name a few. these challenges come on top of the job that's inherently demanding and at times unforgiving. when farmers are faced with a

worst-case scenario they have the tools to weather the storm and eventually rebuild. that's why congress invests billions each year and federal crop insurance and disaster assistance programs. traveling through california i learned many of our growers are ineligible for the insurance or assistance they need. california farmers are incredibly resilient but they deserve our full support as well. can you speak to the challenges that specialty crop growers face when it comes to accessing federal programs. and perhaps you could both address what steps you think congress should take to expand access to risk management options for these particular growers. >> the investment that's been really appreciated over the years by specialty crop growers and research. for not only opening new markets but to make sure we are managing the pressure. that's been a really important

investment we would want to make sure continues going forward. it's absolutely true it's a current risk management tools are really limited for the high value crops just doesn't often make sense even when there is a policy available. i do think whether it's growers in the central valley or fruit and vegetable growers across the country looking for additional ways to improve existing programs with the markets like they are deserve some risk management program. the difficulty comes a lot of

people are knocking to go do it, they are working. and a lot of the farm to table farm to market people they deserve a shot to be able to have the risk management. >> i appreciate that very much. we talk about a number of issues including the one i raised we also talked about how california citrus growers they are devastated citrus growers in florida and elsewhere it was interesting for me to learn about the work being done in the research that's being done the investment being made and certain species of wasp that has a natural predator to the insects responsible for spreading this disease.

i wonder people could address investments and agriculture research are also key to making sure the farming community succeeds. >> whether through labor institutions or usda agencies. it might be safe to say we can't over invent and research. that there is not only existing tests but the emerging threats as well. so whether it's looking for ways to combat data make sure we are innovative in our approach the investments are critically important in making sure we are removing barriers. >> the alarming thing to me if we look around the world research and development being

able to keep the food assistance. >> the farmers can access insurance and assistance that we keep the marketing programs a strong. we invest millions of research to satan billions in crops is a really good investment. i think you mr. chairman. >> those are excellent points. >> thank you all for being here. >> let's take a second and