scheduling information or to watch live or on-demand anytime. c-span, democracy unfiltered. >> john dickinson is one of the most significant founders of the united states who is not well known all the american public. a new biography, john dickinson is known for his nine essays under the title published anymously in newspapers during the time that the states were deciding on whether to approve the new constitution. john dickinson of maryland, delaware and pennsylvania was he only found in the present and active in every phase of the revolution from the stamp act crisis to the ratification of the constitution. >> author jane calvert talks about her book a biography of john dicns on this episode

of booknotes+ith our host brian went. booknotes+ is available on the c-span a free mobile app or wherever you get your podcasts. >> c-span, democracy unfiltered. when funded by these television companies and more including charter communications. >> charter is proud to be recognized as one of the best internet providers off and we're just getting started building 100,000 miles of new infrastructure to reach those who need it most. >> charter communicaons supports c-span is a public service along with these other television providers giving you a front-row seat to democracy. >> education advocates and policy experts testified on the state of the education system. they were asked about the effectiveness of private school vouchers and how diversity, equity, and inclusion practices affect learning outcomes.

the house hearing took place amid news the trump administration was considering eliminating the department. this is about three hours. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> well, good morning. the committee on education, the workforce will -- who typed that up for me? take that out. education and workforce will come to order. i note a quorum is present. without objection the chairs authorized to call recess at any

time and they with personal preference or personal preference i put something in at this point as well. there is no more important place for any of us to be this morning related to her legislative work that in this committee. education is key. to everything that goes on in this country, especially now and forever more. some glad were all part of this committee. good morning. it's a pleasure to welcome you to the first drink of the house committee and education workforce in the 119th congress. this morning we heard to discuss the state of american education. unfortunately we are here to discuss problems that have resulted and continue to go on in education as well. many students are failing to graduate from high school or college with the skills needed to be successful. into many places education and core subjects like math and reading issu being replaced by indoctrination. that mustri change.

i'm pleased to see the trump administration is taking excellent steps to restore commonsense, personal responsibility and parental choice to our educational system. but this is just beginning and it isnn disruptive. it will have to be to do significant change. in k-12 education there's much work that needs to be done. results from the most recent national assessment of educational progress show that students have still not recovered from the pandemic. if that's the key excuse. students are still scoring at lower levels in math and reading than you were in 2019. reason fos many schools have lost focus on teaching the core skills needed for a successful career. many teachers have done an admirable job helping students recover from learning loss. many systems have become fixated

on teaching divisive ideologies. unfortunately these efforts have been fueled by the federal government. 2024 researchers with parents defending education found that the biden administration spent $1 billion in d.e.i. grants. there's a positive, there's positive news to celebrate in the k-12 arena. however, school choice has grown dramatically in recent years. more than 1 million students are benefiting from private school choice programs, which is about double the number of students from just 3 years ago. additionally, we've seen a grassroots movement of parent involvement. decades of research has shown that parental involvement, regardless of socioeconomic status or background, has a strong impact on student achievement and long-term

success. it's encouraging to see so many parents get more involved in their school systems, as well as the growth of parent advocacy organizations that support them. their work has been vital to making schools function better. we've seen rampant anti-semitism and stifling of speech on campuses fueled by bloated dei bureaucracies, and america's adversaries are sending billions of foreign funds to schools to manipulate them. all of this has resulted in too many students being told what to think instead of how to think. it's also the case that our higher education financing system is at a critical inflection point. president biden attempted to spend $1 trillion through executive actions on the federal student loan bailout program alone. transferring student loan responsibilities onto the backs of taxpayers will not solve the underlying issue that the federal student loan program is broken.

what is needed now more than ever are real lasting reforms that protect both students and taxpayers from debt they can't afford. our committee has hard work ahead of us to ensure our nation's higher education system remains the crown jewel of the world. we also must address our broken workforce system. we have about 8 million unfilled jobs in our country, so there's clearly a mismatch between the skills our workforce has and the skills our employers need. unfortunately, the nation's workforce system authorized under the workforce innovation and opportunity act, or wioa is failing to fill in the gap. fortunately, our committee made tremendous strides last congress in addressing these challenges. a stronger workforce for america act passed the house with strong bipartisan support, and after and after further negotiations with the senate last year, was

poised for enactment. i want to thank former chairwoman virginia fox and ranking member bobby scott for their leadership on that bill, and i look forward to taking it back up in this new congress. while we have great challenges ahead of us, we also have great opportunities in front of us, and i look forward to working with all of our members to meet these challenges. that process starts today, and i'm excited for the productive conversation we will have with this great panel of witnesses. with that, i yield to my friend and ranking member mr. scott. >> thank you, chairman wahlberg. good morning, everyone, and thank you for our witnesses for joining us today and thank you, mr. chairman, for convening this hearing. i'd like to first start with the elephant in the room, and there's current reporting that president trump plans to issue an executive order to eliminate

critical programs at the department of education and call on congress to eliminate the entire department. and then i recall that that's exactly what the project 2025 said the president should do, said that on page 319 of project 2025. the irony is not lost on me that we're here to discuss the state of american education while the current administration is actively discussing how to dismantle the main federal agency responsible for ensuring safe, quality education for all students. according to polls, the majority of the voters oppose the abolition of the department of education and also know that i and every democrat will do what we can to ensure that the that the department continues. now the issue on hand is reflected in the latest national assessment of educational progress data. schools are struggling to make up for lost time in the

classroom following the covid-19 pandemic. achievement gaps which existed before the pandemic have widened according to that, um, uh, assessment. math and reading gaps between higher and lower performing students continue to rise as black students continue to be more than 10 points behind their white peers in all subjects. in 2021, democrats passed the largest one-time investment in education. in the history of the united states in the american rescue plan act to provide schools with resources they needed to reopen classrooms safely and make up for lost time due to the pandemic. without this investment, we would undoubtedly be in a worse situation today but the rescue plan act was only a band-aid on the larger issue of underfunding in schools, and it is abundantly clear that we need sustained federal investment over time to overcome decades of

underfunding. unfortunately, instead of investing in our children, republicans are stuck on proposals that only create more challenges for students. consider that the first education bill we considered this congress targets indeed bullies, transgender youth. also, my republican colleagues have missedrepresented programs intended to expand diversity, equity and inclusion as the problem in education, republicans have threatened to ban books, police bathrooms, take away funds from communities that need it most, and simply put, the administration is promoting a warped vision of dei discrimination, er, erasure, and inequity. this all serves to distract americans so that they will not notice that the privatization of american education systems with taxpayer funds going to private schools, the resegregation of public schools, the erosion of services for students students with disabilities, and cuts to student to student loan program.

and distracts from the fact that the price of eggs is going up. while some folks may be hollering about imagine der -- imagined d.e.i. problems, many in the public will fail to notice how the taxpayers' money is being siphoned away from public education and the student loan program to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy and well connected. and so mr. chairman, we can all agree that every student in this country should have access to safe, welcoming, well-funded learning environment that begins with eliminating disparities in education with sustained federal funding. this congress committee democrats will will reintroduce legislation such as the rebuild america schools act, which will make critical investments to repair and rebuild school facilities, particularly in high need areas. the equity and inclusion enforcement act, which restored private right of action for students, parents, and local civil rights groups to bring

discrimination claims based on disparate impact under title vii of the civil rights act of 1964 and the strength and diversity act, which will provide resources to states and school districts that want to voluntarily develop schools. plans to integrate their schools. we have to take steps to lower the cost of higher education for students and families, and to that end, we'll also reintroduce the lowering obstacles to achievement now, the loan act, which would lower the cost of college for current and future student borrowers and their families by making critical reforms to the student aid system. including doubling the pell grant, improving public service loan forgiveness programs, and making loans more affordable and accessible, allow me to that end to promise my colleagues and students across the country that we will not go along with programs to dismantle our education system. we will fight any attempt to dismantle the department and so

we don't know what the plan will be, but count on our opposition. to, um, any plan that will abolish the department of education and the programs in it. so to that end, democrats will always, uh, be with the well-being of students, teachers, and parents across the country. and, uh, with that, mr. chairman, you'll back the balance. >> pursuant to committee rule 8-c, all members who wish to insert statements into the record may do so by committing them to the clerk electronically in microsoft word form by 5:00 p.m., 14 days after the date of this hearing, february 19, 2025. without objection, the hearing will remain open for 14 days to allow such statements and other material referenced during the hearing to be submitted for the

official hearing record. i'll now turn to the introduction of our witnesses, who we appreciate being here. our first witness is the president of the parents defending education in arlington, virginia. welcome. our next witness is dr. cooper, who is a senior fellow at the american enterprise institute located in washington, d.c. welcome, mr. cooper. our third witness is the president and director counsel of the naacp legal defense fund in washington, d.c., welcome. and our final witness is the president and c.e. off the of the society for human resource management in alexandria, virginia. welcome. we thank you for all being here today and look forward to your testimony. i would like to remind the witnesses that we have read your written statements, which will appear in our full hearing

record. i would ask that you each limit your oral presentation to a three minute summary of your written statement. the clock will count down from three minutes, balls the committee members have many -- because the committee members have many questions for you, and we'd like to spend as much time as possible on those questions with your answers. pursuant to committee rule 8d and committee practice, however, we will not cut off your testimony until you go too far. i also would like to remind the witnesses to be aware of their responsibility to provide access information to the -- accurate information to the committee. first, i'll recognize ms. neily. welcome. >> chairman, ranking members, and distinguished members, thank you for inviting me. i'm the president and founder of parents defending education and the executive director. american education is in crisis. for too long, u.s. schools have focused on everything but

educating children. our children are bearing brunt of these bad decisions. schools are focused on the wrong priorities. identity politics permeate districts across america. children are regularly treated differently based on race. color conscious, which considers colorblindness to be negative, is present in colleges. 80 years after brown v. board of education,ization exists where students and teachers are included or excluded because of skin color. they promote programs like this, hosting professional development training. district d.e.i. consultants are paid millions per year. in the wake of october 7, antisemitism spiked in colleges and k-12 schools. from lesson plans about colonialism or sidewalk can as, the lackadaisical response to jew hatred were a sharp contrast to george floyd's murder.

our investigation into classrooms on districts around the country are c.c. perform-linked spits also exist. the full scope of the influence and also a significant nobody higher ed. over the past several years, merit has been sacrificed on the altar of equity. rather than challenging students to strive for greatness, schools are eliminating gifted and talented programs and a.p. classes so all students remain at the same level. we are witnessing the soviet fake of american schools in real time. finally, schools are unsafe. under the guise of breaking the school to prison pipeline, they've removed school resource offers, making classroom management impossible. families are treated appears the enemy. trust between families and districts are fractured. rather than partnering with parents, schools work against them. families are being shut out of their children's lives. we've identified over 1,100 districts districts around the country with parental exclusion policies, which state that

parents tonight have a right to know their child's gender at school. district shouldn't keep secrets from families. as a country we spend bill i don't understand of dollars on mental health for students. why are schools telling kids their parents' love is conditional and maybe it's time to lead a double life? over the past four years, parental rights were disrespected by the federal government. when paints spoke up they were attacked by the media. we discovered the national school board association worked to smear american families. as george washington carver said, education is a key to unlock the folden door of freedom. the country's equity experiment has been a failure and it's time to move on. let's refocus schools on core subjects, prioritizing excellence, and creating opportunities for those who work hard. 9 american education system is not beyond repair, but it's going to take a genuine partnership between families and educators. thank you. >> thank you. thank you for setting the standard for three minutes.

i now recognize dr. cooper. >> good morning, chairman, ranking member and distinguished members of the committee. thank you for the opportunity to testify today on the state of post secondary education and the federal government's role in shaping it. my name is preston cooper and i'm a senior fellow focusing on the economics of higher education at the american enterprise institute. americans are losing confidence in the higher education system. according to "the wall street journal," 56% of americans believe that a four-year college education is no longer worth the cost. this changing sentiment has translated into a 12% drop in college enrollment since 2010. to be sure, higher education can be a great investment for students, but all too often that investment does not pay off. when students pay too much in tuition or don't learn the skills they need to get a good job or even fail to complete their degree program at all, the decision to pursue higher education becomes less of an investment and more of a gamble. the federal government heavily subsidized higher education programs with little return on

investment for students. between 2018 and 2022, i estimate that at least $37 billion in pell grants and $86 billion in federal student loans flowed to degree programs that did not lead to a return on investment for students. when students pay for too much for college, a relative to what they earn after leaving school, it becomes harder to pay down their loan balances. before the pandemic, 11 million bo otherrers were in default or delinquent on debt. these high rates of nonpayment mean the congressional budget office expects the taxpayers will lose $223 billion on student loans newly originated between 2025 and 2034, and that's to say nothing of expected losses on outstanding loans. while former president biden's largely unsuccessful efforts to cancel student loans en masse did little to help matters, the student loan programs predate

his administration. fortunately, congress has a unique opportunity to address many of the long-standing problems in the federal student loan program. the college cost reduction act introduced last year takes a three-pronged approach fixing things, reforming the student loeb repayment system, imposing caps on borrowing, and holding colleges account annal for how well they serve students. post secondary education in america suffers from high costs, uneven financial value, and a chaotic student loan system that creates more problems than it solves. addressing these challenges would represent a strong first step toward restoring public confidence in american higher education. thank you for your attention, and i look forward to your questions. >> thank you, mr. cooper. i recognize mrs. nelson. >> good morning. thank you for the opportunity to testify. i am the president and director counsel of the legal defense fund. since our founding 85 years ago

by thurgood marshall, we have fought to ensure that black students, and indeed all students, have equal access to education. 70 years ago, the supreme court's unanimous decision in brown versus board of education ended legal racialization in public schools. writing for the majority, chief justice warren said that equal public education is the very foundation of good citizenship. public education is critical to the health of our economy, and it is essential to the viability of our multiracial democracy. sadly, brown's mandate to provide all students with quality learning experiences that respect their full humanity, intelligence and dignity regardless of their race, ethnicity, or gender identity, or ability, is under fierce attack. under the guise of promoting

so-called school choice or parental rights, has emerged a reincarnated massive resistance to high quality, equitable, and inclusive public education that performs for all. this massive resistance 2.0 seeks to achieve what george wallace and his extremist act lights could not, the hoarding of public resources to fund private education for a privileged few at the expense of the many. our school system disproportion gnatly fails low-income black, brown, indigenous, disabled, and new english learners in alarming ways. they faced vastly unequally educational resources, leading to significant disparities in academic outcomes. we can all agree that our k-12 system must do better. yet, instead of working to fix these persistent actual threats to the future of our country, a

well funded cabal of activist organizations is lobbying for a separatist private school system funded by public tax dollars. at the organization that vanquished state-sponsored racial congratulation in 1954, l.d.s. stands firmly against a publicly financed, separatist, private school system in 2025. over the past 30 years, racial segregation has worsened. this shift correlates with two major changes, the decrease in court mandated desegregation oversight and the proliferation of voucher programs that defund public schools. privatizing public education and shirking federal responsibility would be disastrous for the 50 million students and their families who rely on public schools and the equal access that they are legally mandated to provide. president trump's orders to

restrict teaching and learning in inclusive and supportive environments and his threats to dismantle the department of education and upend critical enforcement of federal civil rights laws will demolish the very foundation of good citizenship. we must reject these proposals out of the project 2025 playbook and approach public education with common sense and common purpose. not separatism and self-dealing. this congress owes it to the millions of families who are scared of what these radical policies will mean for their children to choose a better path. indeed, if we are being serious about educating all of america's children equally, we must implement a proactive vision that centers evidence-based interventions like universal pre-k. competitive teacher sal riis, ripping russ standards, whole

child support, as well as gun safety legislation to eliminate both barriers to equal education and to truly protect our children. our country is at an inflexion point and so is american education. we can build a system in which all students can thrive or allow our schools to remain spaces of division and inequality. with an escape route for some to line the pockets of private actors with public dollars. i hope this congress will unvest in the promise of every child in america by strengthening our public education system that serves us all. thank you, and i look forward to your questions. >> thank you, mrs. nelson. and now recognize you, mr. taylor.

>> chairman, ranking member, and distinguished members of the committee, thank you. thank you for giving us and me the opportunity today. we represent 350,000 h.r. professionals word wide. we see firsthand the challenges of today's workforce. i just came back from charlotte, north carolina, where i presented to the management team, the top 250 executives, bank of america. i can tell you they agree with everything that i'm about to say. the education to employment pipeline is leaky, broken, and it's busted. that said, our system is still the best in the world. we are proud americans. but imagine what we could be if we unleashed the power of all of the talent. first, higher education is leaking. we've invested billions, yet degrees don't alza line with market needs. as dr. cooper just mentioned. employers are shifting, therefore to skills-based hiring, valuing experience and

certifications over diplomas and degrees. initiatives, like michigan state's align center, for example, and north carolina's my future n.c. initiatives, prove that we can better connect education to employment. secondly, k-12 education is really broken. we've undervalued vocational training, leaving students unprepared. nearly 2/3 of our students lack reading proficiency. programs like aspire, which is the aspire trade high school in north carolina, and john bounds high school's agrascience program show hands-on learning works. i have a 14-year-old daughter right now in virginia public schools. i know what's napping our public schools. and i know that many of you have devoted your lives, including some becoming teachers of the year, because we are committed to making this work. finally, our untapped talent pools remain overlooked. millions of skilled veterans,

older workers, stories who are formerly incarcerated individuals with disabilities, they are ready to contribute. we need them in the workforce. as the chairman mentioned, we have seven million, eight million open jobs in america. we don't have the luxury to exclude anyone from the workforce f. you're ready, willing and able, we want you there. so we commend the chairman, ranking member, others for their leadership and updating the system. we believe that we need to get this done in congress. we are heartened by the bipartisan interest and continuing efforts of this congress and encourage the following provisions to be retained. direct 50% of pounds for training, leverage expertise, and create new staffing options. members of the committee, the solution is clear. we need a national strait tree that allianz education with workforce demands. and shrm stands ready to partner with you. this isn't about jobs. it's about people's lives and livelihoods. thank you, and i look forward to your questions.

>> thank you, mr. taylor, and thanks to each of the witnesses. under committee rule 9, we'll now question the witnesses under the five-minute rule. i ask members to keep our questions succinct so the witnesses have time to answer. i'll recognize myself for five minutes. in your testimony, you mentioned the problem of foreign influence in both higher education and k-12. although the last administration failed to take this threat seriously, this committee introduced multiple pieces of legislation last congress to help address this serious problem. can you talk more about what steps congress should take to protect our students and the national security? >> big picture, we have three things we need to do. we need transparency, notification, and we need consequences. last session's trace act addressed these by providing access to curriculum, so parents could know what their children were learning. lowering the reporting threshold for the higher education foreign

funding creating k-12 reporting, and also looking intoen cowment funding -- into endowment funding. parents need to know so they can make decisions whether they want their child in the classroom or not and also whether officials are receiving donations from foreign entities. there must be consequences. when these rules are broken, foreign actors as well as schools, be they universities or districts, must be held accountable. >> thank you. dr. cooper, colleges and universities often blame a lack of state funding for college costs increasing twice as fast as inflation. increased costs always get my throat. over the last two decades. yet the very same colleges have billions of dollars to spare when it comes to hiring administrators, funding d.e.i. projects, or renovating their new football stadiums. in your view, is a lack of affordability at many

institutions a funding issue or a spending problem? >> i would say it's a spending problem. the united states colleges and universities spend more per student than any other college and universities in the developed world, more than twice as much as many european countries. what's more, state funding has actually been increasing on a per student basis over the last 10 years or so, yet we've still seen tuition go up. i would argue that it's not a state funding, which is the issue. it's the underlying costs which are the issue. >> thank you. mr. taylor, as you know, we almost got reform across the finish line last congress. you talked in your testimony about provisions of that bill that would improve the nation's workforce system. but for members who are new to this committee in this congress, could you talk at a high level about why it's important for congress to finish our work on

those reform efforts, and secondly, i would add to that, in other words, why is reform an important effort for us to take back up this congress? >> mr. chairman, with the reauthorization, we have a generational opportunity to strengthen our nation's laws to ensure that american workers have the skills and the knowledge to succeed. you mentioned earlier, we have almost eight million jobs open in this country. we need to figure out how to solve for that gap. employers are hurting, and therefore, it affects american competitiveness. many workers are seeking an alternative path to a job that doesn't involve a four-year degree. these programs are an opportunity for us to deliver that to workers and key to delivering on this promise is to ensure that more, not less, we owe in dollars go to skilling and upskilling dollars that provide quality. that's what this is all about. what we know with everything that a.i. is about to do to us from a displacement standpoint,

this becomes more important, not less. >> thank you. briefly, ms. neily, give us your opinion why in recent years as parents have reengaged, especially after covid, that they are seen regularly as a danger to our public education system, especially, but to education in general. >> unfortunately parents, when they start to get engaged in the system, asked questions and demanded account ain't that the education industrial complex is not prepared to offer. they have used to having our children behind closed doors, spending money as they want, and programming them as they see fit. the michigan democratic party said that the purpose of a public education is to teach students what society needs them to know. they presuppose they know what families need, what students need to know, not what families want them to learn inch i think there's a big divide.

this administration views families and students as stakeholders rather than just the activist and organizations that have been funding and demanding money for so long. >> thank you. i now recognize my friend from connecticut, mr. courtney. >> thank you, mr. chairman, and thank you to the witnesses for being here today. before i go into my questions, i have to at least put on the record that when this was agreed to by both sides, it was included in the continuation resolution submitted by speaker mike johnson, and then within the space of less than six hours, because of the intervention of the trump transition team led by elon musk, that there were too many pages in the c.r. that provision was stripped from the bill. we would today, if the speaker had stuck to the agreement that he had agreed to and negotiated, we would have those reforms in

place today. that is a real step backwards for all of the issues we agree on in terms of filling job openings that are in the u.s. economy today. mr. scott began his remarks talking about the elephant in the room. in my opinion, two elephants. one is to abolish the department of education. the second is the reconciliation bill, which, again, we've seen reporting that huge grant programs and tax assistance for higher education are on the chopping block. the human sacrifice to make sure trump gets his tax consults for the rich. that's what's being discussed right now in terms of paying for the reconciliation bill. attorney nelson, pop quiz for you. the department of education was created by statute in 1979 to abolish the department of

education congress would actually have to vote on legislation to eliminate the agency, isn't that correct? right. so since the enactment of the department of education, there have been consistent attempts by far right wing republicans in congress, the last one as recently assist march 24, 2023. mr. massey offered ton abolishment to abolish the department of education. that measure was defeated 265-161. 60 republicans voted, in my opinion, sensibly to make sure that the department of education stayed in place. again, the president is going to issue his executive orders, pretending that he's actually doing, achieving this goal. but as we've seen so far in the federal district courts, where his executive orders have actually been put to the test of article one, section nine in terms of congress' authority for funding programs, he's batting

0-3. again, i think it is important for us to remember a reality check that if the department of education's existence resides in this branch of government in terms of moving forward, among the programs we fund, talking about workforce need is the perkins grant program. again, in my district, visiting career and technical trade schools talking to comprehensive high schools that are creating career pathway programs, with money coming from the u.s. department of education to pay for welding booths, setups for nursing programs, the fact of the matter is that the department of education is a major, major partner and contributor to, again, achieving the goals, mr. taylor, that you mentioned, isn't that correct? >> yes. >> thank you. in terms of the reconciliation bill, which, again, we have seen

every committee at mar-a-lago has been asked to offer up offsets and pay fors to pay for the tax cuts. one of the proposals that, again, was reported by politico is republican proposal would make college scholarships taxable income. again, mr. chairman, i would ask to enter into the record an article from "forbes" magazine, hardly a far left publication that, again, describes what this proposal is, to make scholarships taxable. >> without objection, so ordered. >> thank you. again i think it doesn't take a lot of imagination. maybe, again, attorney nelson, you can help with this. it's just that taxing scholarships raises costs and shifts costs to students in terms of college affordability, isn't that correct? >> yes, it would. >> so again, today's discussion, which is sort of the beginning on this premise that we're going to have a normal discussion as far as education policy, the fact of the matter is that the

elephants in the room that mr. scott talked about in terms of basically blowing up the department of education and shifting costs to students is the real test, and that's what we're going to be confronted with, again, as the reconciliation bill comes forward in any package to abolish the department of education. again, i look forward to joining republicans who voted no to abolish the department of education to make sure that that measure fails. i yield back. >> thank you, gentleman. i recognize the gentleman from south carolina, mr. wilson. >> thank you, mr. chairman. we are very fortunate that we actually will be joined soon by the ambassador to the united nations, elise stefanik, so that will certainly enhance our hearing today. with that in mind, as we consider the state of education, i know firsthand of the positive parts of this in that i am grateful my wife taught at an alternative school, giving young students the opportunity of a

second chance. my father served on the school board in charleston, south carolina. my wife and i appreciate teachers, who are after the third grade. our four sons succeeded in math only because of educators, resulting in our oldest son being the attorney general of south carolina, our second son is an orthopedic surgeon, and our third son is commercial real estate, and our youngest is an industrial engineer. these successes are really due to educators making a difference. with that in mind, i believe it's because of the success of local elected school boards, and i very much support president donald trump for his courage to promote local elected school boards with the elimination of the duplicative, wasteful interfering and federal department of education and the funding clearly should go to the students and not to bureaucrats. with that in mind, dr. cooper, the american enterprise institute is greatly appreciated for making a difference, promoting limited government,

expanded freedom. it's crucial for addressing the challenges of american families, and we want to thank you for a.e.i. in your testimony, you note that the grad plus program provides unlimited loans to students, allowing them to borrow institutionally determine attendance. in other words, whether a school says is 10,000 or 10 million, the federal government will provide a loan. the creation is go inside with doubling the amount of graduate students' borrowing. given the structure of uncapped lending, is there evidence that colleges abuse this to unduly increase tuition? >> there is absolutely evidence to that effect. as you mentioned, the grad plus program is unlimited. students can borrow up to the cost of attendance as defined by the institution, which means that the institution says it cost $200,000 or $200 million, students are legally allowed to borrow up to that limit, defined by the institution. and this has resulted in

increase in tuition at the graduate level. for every one dollar of additional money that went out the door, colleges hiked grad school tuition by 64 cents. the grad plus program has grown enormously in scale and scope since it was created in 2006. and graduate student loans account for half of new loans issued every year by the federal government. so i would argue that the grad plus program has gotten relatively out of control and some sensible caps and borrowing are needed. >> we look forward to a.e.i. producing alternatives. with that in mind, mr. taylor, you are right, that the workforce training has delivered tremendous success with partnerships between employers and educators. a stronger workforce for america act was altered by our former chair of virginia fox. do you see, what has been the success of that? in my home state of south carolina, we're grateful.

in the district i represent, the larger manufacturing facility in the world. bmw, we want everybody to have an x5. those are made in south carolina. while you're at it, we can buy a volvo, mercedes, samsung products, bridgestone, lockheed martin, boeing 787, we'll be happy to sell everything, because the workforce development, so how can this be achieved? >> well, you've taken my comments, because that's it. it speaks for itself. industry has benefited. the economy in south carolina, and ultimately in our country globally, it's benefited from that very successful piece of litigation. i think we need more of it. we need to commit and double down on it. we agree this has been net-net a significant win for employers and employees. >> it's job creation, and we see it in south carolina as the leading exporter of cars and

tires. i don't feel r i don't want people to know that, but it's true. with that in mind, indeed, parents are under attack. i'm really grateful that the representative and the i'm grateful representatives and republicans in the house passed the paris bill of rights. is this legislation working? >> it's a terrific firstst step. we look for the continued engagement. there needs to bee teeth, actual pass out of the senate but i'm optimistic going forward would be able to make sure we deliver as a country for american parents and we actually listen to. >> thank you all for being here today. i yielde back. >> thank you for most of your comments, mr.r. wilson. [laughing] we we're still the auto capita. i recognize my friend from california now, mr. to cover thank you, mr. chairman. mr. cooper, do you believe that the department of education

should be abolished? >> i think the department of education -- >> looking for a yes or no. >> was the programs that are currently operated by the -- >> do think the department should be abolished? >> i think it's immaterial whether the programs operated -- >> to think the department of education should be abolished? >> i really, i really can't say because -- >> i'll take that as a n no. ms. neely, do you think the department of education should be abolished? >> we went to world wars about speed so you don't believe it exist? mr. cooper, you believe the department of of education should be abolished? >> mr. taylor? mr. taylor?? i have to agree, i don't have a yes or no answer. >> you have a yes or no answer? all right. so work needs to continue whether or not the department of education hasn't entered asti an

institution, too often speeded fine, i want to be clear. what you're saying. whether we abolish it or we reorganize it, do you believe that the president alone god mre department of education or reorganize it or does he need a vote of congress to do so? >> to eliminate it out right would require a vote of congress but there's probably something seeking to by executively order. >> so he can just stop funding certain congressionally appropriated programs? just say i'm not going to fund those? or elon musk don't fund? >> it would depend the broken. >> you would agree there are programs that are congressionally appropriated that he would need, you know he just doesn't have the power to impound those. >> i i would argue if congress s specifically appropriated funding for certain programs

then the education department is obligated to fund the program but there is flexibility the department has. >> essentially eliminate the department of education, to would need a vote of congress to do so? >> i agree with that. >> ms. neely? >> i'm not a constitutional scholar. that's outside my area of expertise. >> yououex don't agree a presen, the department of education which was established in law through a bill passed by congress signed into law by the president to abolish it the department of education that he would also need a vote of congress to do that? >> this is outside my scope of speed you don't know? budget expert on speed i represent a parent organization. >> mr. taylor? >> yes, absolutely. >> he would actually need a vote. i'm glad we have at least two witnesses from the majority who believe that a vote of congress would be necessary. i would hope they would remind

my colleagues on theth other sie of the of what happened at usaid over the weekend was illegal, that it president cannot unilaterally dismantle an agency or department that was established in law, that what he did was outside the law and illegal. this hearing is called the state of american education, but from what i'm seeing from the other sides behavior is that it really should be called the republican surrender to a would be king. i would love to discuss the state of education in america and loved of any assemblage of productive discussion and his committee but the only solution republicans haveti offered us to the pilot problem sitting before us, whether it's the abysmal child illiteracy rates in this country, rampant gun violence in schools, the national economic cost of our education of iphone shackles of debt that we are signing up for college studentsor to abolish the department of education. either way let's imagine legally

or illegally the department of education has been dismantled. the department protects students and veterans who have been defrauded and a victim's of predatoryic loan schemes from, r predatory, for profit colleges. this is critical for veterans were just before the affected by the student debt crisis. before covid student veterans had a 46% default rate on the loans. mr. cooper, if the veteran is defrauded out of their gentle benefits by one of the institutions known to pray and veterans can they recoup that benefit? >> for veterans i'm not sure. for federal student loans they can submit a claim for the bar defense process to other loans discharged. >> the answer is no. once the general education benefits have been used by the students they are gone forever. yet my republican colleagues continues to propose cutting regulations which protect these student veterans including a loan relief after attending a

failed school. rules that prevent colleges from preying on veteran g.i. benefits and tools to discharge debt for students who have been defrauded by the institution. i yield back, mr. chairman. >> i thank the gentleman and i recognize the gentleman from florida. georgia, , excuse me. georgia, mr. allen. >> we were in florida last week. [laughing] thank you, mr. chairman. for holding the support hearing today. before ihe ask questions i would like to briefly touch on school choice. of course we are the same old talking points on the other side. we got to turn education in this country around, and it's going to take some bold, strong efforts to do that. innovation is where it's at. so nowow we've got to motivate students, too. i mean obviously in this indoctrination of children it's

ridiculous. i mean, it's reading, writing and arithmetic, you know? it work real well for a long time. you know, a child's future success is often determined early in life and part of that quality is their k-12 education. parents and children should have the chance to jews and education path that is right for them. that's why i'm so excited to hear the current administration speaking so forcibly in favor of school choice. it's an 80% issue with parents in this country. with that being said, mr. taylor, with rising student loan debt and many young people reconsidering the value of a traditional college degree, there's a growing need for businesses to prioritize skills-based hiring over degree requirements. last year that ceos from walmart and home depot co-authored an op-ed article needs a college degree.

highlighting the importance of the ship across industries. actively encouraging its members to adopt skills-based hiring practices. from our perspective are more businesses embracing this approach, and what additional steps can be taken to accelerate this shift at the national level? >> answer is yes. for the last four or five years if you were not following it we have experienced a turnover tsunami, as well as the great resignation. we employers need talent. the knowledge-based economy, you lose if you don't have the best talent. the best talent doesn't necessarily, and a want be clear because were not anti-college and university degree attainment, but the best count shows up in different ways with skilled credentials. ultimately what we want is people who can do the work. whether or not they have a degree i was in the degree is from aar school, employers are committed to allowing, listen, we've got to fill these jobs because were too many people who are under skills. our job is to eliminate and i

represent the world's largest association of h.r. professionals,or we've got to gt to finding out those who have the skills, notes necessarily te paper that says you have the skills to do the job. >> let it be said, bill gates dropped out of college because he happen tohe know more than te people that were teaching him. mr. taylor, while we all understand the value of the world four-year degree it's become becoming clear we need to ship the narrative around. part of my tenure in congress i want a construction company in georgia. i understand firsthand the importance of having a trained workforce. there are over 40,000 40n construction, 40% of the workforce is set to retire in the next decade. congress has taken steps in supporting individuals concerning skilled trade careers by championing the bipartisan workforce pel act which would expand pell grant eligibility for short-term training programs. however, with critical labor shortages additional action is needed.

beyond this legislation what more can congress due to expand education, both in high schools and the workforce training programs to build a strong, talent pipeline? in other words, some people are motivated by other things like skills. how do we tap into that? >> it starts in the k-12 system. ii remember going to school and we recognize with anyone o stand up at the end of your 12 grade and six who's going to college? the people who were not going to college were not recognized. we got to start with letting people know it is okay not to go pursue formal education inn the way we distort the thought about and it's okay to go get and acquire skills and then according chill that says to an up or you can do the work. so the narrative must change early that you have not failed because you did not pursue college.co that's not one. secondly, and you friday pointed out at the passage of the legislation, we got to talk about a lot and encourage employers.

people will say they will hire someone without air degree, what all research says if you put someone in for review and the person doesn't have a degree but the other person has experience, we still have a bias toward people who have degrees come from for jobs that very clearly don't require degrees. this is going to require a collective commitment by industry, h.r. professionals and thank you when government backing to make jobs available for people who can do the job irrespective of the degree that they may or may not have. >> i'm out of time. after more questions of what is meant to andyo i'd like, if you provide answers to those questions for the record. mr. chairman, i yield back. >> i now recognize the gentle it from north carolina, ms. adams. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and ranking member or hosting this hearing today and to the witnesses, thank you for being here. .. classroom.

i'll tell you relate anyway, the way things are going, we're failing our children. that starts with teachers. if we don't invest in the people standing at the front of the classroom, we can't expect students to succeed. >> so, ms. nelson, my first question is for you. according to the national center for education statistics. according to the 2020-2021 school year, only 6% of teachers identified as black. why is federal investment in teacher diversity crucial? >> thank you for your services as a teacher. it's critical that the students see the teachers in claire classrooms and school administrators and leaders in this country. it's important that they see representation and diversity in every position of leadership and it starts in the classroom,

it starts with their teachers. we also know the legal defense funds thurgood marshall institute does research proves when black students are taught by black teachers and a more diverse faculty, they soar. if we want to invest in a diverse faculty as well. >> it's not who is in the classroom, it's which institutions have been given the resources to enrich the black students. the hbcu's, we're producing 17% of all black bachelor degree congratulations, 40% of black engineers. miss nelson, how are hbcu's uniquely positioned to develop the growth of black students and their communities? >> you can be brief, i have more questions. >> hbcu have long punched above

their wait despite the fact that they're deprived of adequate funding, and deserve them by mandate of statue, hbcu's deserve greater investment and as you noted they not only deliver the greatest number of graduates, they've delivered 40% of cbc numbers as well. >> yes, ma'am. thank you very much for that, and thank you for the work that you're doing. i really appreciate that very much. mr. taylor, let me ask you a question. as chair of the white house initiative on hbcu's during the first trump administration, you saw firsthand how underfunded -- how underfunding holds these institutions back: had bcu's contribute 16.5 billion dollars to our economy every year and that's the return on investment. yet, our schools are still

being short changed. so, do you believe that congress should be investing more and if so, what do you think is the holdup? >> well, and thank you for the opportunity. for those who didn't know i ran the thurgood marshall fund largest to committed to advancing and protecting the policies for our publicly funded state hbcu's, and i start with the fact hbcu is not a race based designation, several hbcu's have -- these are open to all and historically shown that's the case, it's good that we have the numbers, but even still these institutions are not that. and what i did along with the trump administration, under betsy devos at that time and president trump was to get the highest level of funding hbcu's ever to that point. it wasn't enough to your point

and the biden administration has continued that work. so this is not a political issue for us. these are incredibly important historic jewels that need to be funded. it's not about the institutions, it's about the students who attend those institutions who we in employment and employer's side need to fill the seven, eight million jobs. they're critical to our work force diversity. >> thank you. let me move on and ask about the augustus hawkins program, addresses teachers and array of shortages at hbcu in my state. and it was listed in the budget memo freezing federal funding. would you agree that this grant was on that list? >> that concerns me, i have two n ccu graduates behind me, one a three time central carolina

graduate and one who happens not to be black, and attended the college or university. and anything that takes away from funding that works, it net-net. you mentioned not all the students who attend are african-american students and matter of fact, we have a former governor of north carolina who -- governor easley who received his degree. -- do you agree that-- >> the genting lady's time expired. >> education pipeline and send that in writing. thank you, mr. chairman, i yield back. >> i thank you, gentle lady. >> i recognize the gentleman, mr. thompson. >> thank you, mr. chairman, thank you to all of our witnesses here today are incredibly important topic. i look forward to working with mr. chairman, your leadership of this committee throughout this congress.

mr. nealy, i'm a believer that student growth contributes to academic success. we've had a troubling note of education decline across the country. i introduced the healthy kids act and allows school service providers to serve students all types of milk and lunches, including whole milk. can you describe yourself as a parent the benefit of providing students with a whole milk option in a school cafeteria. >> sure, as a parent, my daughter is underwait and whole milk is one thing that she drinks. and in addition to the doritos that she has. and serve the students what they want as well as what we need. we've seen the pictures of school lunches thrown out, apples wasted. from a financial standpoint and nutritional standpoint. to have schools choose what

they want is really important. >> thank you for that. as a co-chair of the bipartisan career and education caucus, once again i continue to see the rewards of high quality low cost of ct programs that provides learners of all ages with tools to succeed. and part of the enrollment in technical careers is thanks in large part to substantial investments and reforms congress has made to ct over the years, thanks to this committee, including most recently the passage of my legislation, strengthening career and technical education from the 20th century act. in 2018 it was subsequently signed into law by president trump. mr. taylor, in your testimony, i noted two great examples of career and technical education in north carolina and new york. can you talk more about how these types of programs are equipping students with the skills and knowledge they need

to fill more than eight million job openings in the united states today? >> yes, and thank you for this opportunity. thank you, also, for your support of the legislation around cyber security and increasing the number of individuals who have the skills who help us from a national security standpoint. so thank you very much, mr. johnson and congressman thompson. i specifically mentioned in my comments and submitted programs, one in north carolina, one in new york, all over. one is on agri science and it starts in high school and we don't wait until college to begin building this pipeline and it's letting these students understand that there's a real career in agriculture and agri business and significant investments. it was a very wise investment on behalf of this congress and something that we think needs to continue to be reinforced. it helps employers. and one thing i met with the

presidents of john deere, presidents and ceo of cargill and what they said to us, agri business is not sexy. people don't grow up and say send my kid to go work for an agri business although it's absolutely a part of america, our american economy and our global dominance so we've said that sort of investment is critical and starting in high school through those programs introduces students who would otherwise not know about it or in the case of african-american students, historically, we were paths to a job and that's a great example of the program. we also have other programs that focus very early on cyber security training. part of the problem when we look at lack of diversity, for example, in employers who hire, the pipeline didn't provide us kids who were skilled, who were aware of the cyber security world and at to what's

happening with ai. if we don't get this early we're in big trouble and for all our efforts to want a diverse work force we're not going to be able to do it because we have not prepared and offered through the pipeline a group of students who are even aware of the possibilities. >> thank you very much. i do think that given the fact that career and technical education, including agriculture is so much about innovation and technology today, it is getting sexier, you know. i hadn't thought about it in those terms, but thank you for putting that in my head. dr. cooper, i have a-- i have a question, i'll forward it to you, basically about accountability and national accountability and higher education and the role of states which some are better than others in investing in higher education. so it makes a difference. thank you, mr. chairman.

>> i thank the sexy chairman of agriculture. [laughter]. >> for your question. >> i knew that was a mistake when i said it, actually. >> that's a picture in my mind, we won't forget. [laughter] >> and now i go to the harley rider from new jersey, mr. norcross. >> thank you, chairman. and thank you for putting together this hearing on the state of american education and congratulations on your first hearing as chairman. what a great topic because it impacts literally every one of our lives. so many of us talk about education is that pathway to a future that we all want. what-- and many times we don't agree on what education and should be. and the discussion is it's absolutely this or absolutely that. it's not. it's a little bit of each. it's as diverse as we are americans. so the idea that one size fits all in education just is not

the way to go. and quite frankly, you know, we've heard time after time that in order to make it in america you had to go to college. you know what? that might be true for certain areas of careers. i want my doctor, medical doctor, certainly, to go to college and we might even need a couple lawyers, i'm not sure we need all of them, but i grew up, i raised my son, i was a single father and it was challenging and that's 46 years ago, but i did something that was unique at that time, it goes to part of the discussion here, i wanted to make sure that he and my daughter would see you don't have to follow a certain role. i became a room mom for 40 years ago they weren't interested in seeing a male walk through that door.

and we've come so far since then. and mr. thompson, i think that work is sexy, i tell you. career and technical education, our education system needs to be focused more on what the career, what the job is. i know it's great to have one of those pieces of paper up behind you, but that's not a job, that's not a career. so how we get there is really something that's critical. i focus a little bit on the earliest years and how do we get there? we go through the schools in my district and quite frankly, around the country we see there are real challenges. schools are in dilapidated conditions, cyber is just a thought, if you don't bring it in. and that's why the ranking member, miss scott and i, introduced a bill called rebuilding america's schools act and that's 130 billion to go to, those districts who need it most. not everybody needs to have the shiny marble hall, but we need

the educational ability to go into a school and do that. when we talk about creating opportunities for jobs, when we first started, vocational schools and inside regular high schools are happening everywhere, that fell off the edge and now they're starting to come back because they're finding out the next generation to work with your hands is a value. so mr. taylor, you mentioned it started with elementary education. i mention it starts with parents. to say no matter, i have a doctor, a lawyer, electrician and i value each of them and we as a nation have to value them. but, ms. nelson, can you talk about infrastructure in school and why that is important the basics have to be there? >> absolutely. our children should be in facilities that enable them to learn. we know that across the country there are fundamental inequities funding that leads

to fundamental inequities. in baltimore we have litigated cases that have shown that the school system there is suffering from buildings that have leaky ceilings, that have, you know, bathrooms that don't function, and unfortunately, that's not limited to that state. there's the corridor of shame in the state of south carolina where there's students who receive minimally adequate education, if that. this is a chronic issue and sadly, it cleaves along racial lines. it's something that we could address with a better funding mechanism and that's something that this congress could take up. >> thank you. >> ms. taylor, what is your view on this, on infrastructure and particularly the early years? >> i think it's important for students to have great facilities and great teachers, et cetera. i don't think the answer is solely throwing more money at it. we look at some school districts in this country who are in the state of maryland,

for example, who have no funding problem, baltimore is one such example where more money has not solved the problem. so i think we have to be very careful about the idea that we can solve all of this by putting more money, oftentimes it's money, but not applied in the ways that will most effectively benefit the children and that-- . let's be clear, we're not talking about throwing money, we're talking building infrastructure. that's different than giving it a check. >> often the question-- the argument is we need more money to provide for infrastructure investments. >> there's few people that children from any neighborhood, should go into nice building, heat and air conditioning, that's not the debate. we as employers who are paying into taxes making sure that the investment that we're making that yields a return on that

investment in employers, in employment. >> thank you, as i'm looking, my seconds going down. this is a great start to a conversation. >> your time has expired. >> oh, sorry. congratulations. >> i know electricians that keep the juice going and i'm a single dad, too, mr. norcross. i like that. now, have the opportunity to recognize the gentle lady from my birth state of illinois. ms. miller. >> thank you, chairman wahlberg and thank you to all of our witnesses for being here today. mrs. nealy, you mentioned that parents defining-- defending education has identified more than 12 million children in 1100 school districts across our country impacted by parental exclusion policies. colleagues on the left sometimes argue that we are scare mongering to say that

parents are being cut out of their children's education. can you explain why this is a very real problem and how parents really do get cut out? >> representative miller, as a parent and as a grandparent you that we have to sign permission slips to give our children aspirin or sunscreen in schools. the idea that schools are-- that mommy and daddy might not love them because of their religion, abhorrent, happening to our children on tax dollars, happening in 2025 in america. this is not a good use of taxpayers dollars and destroying the parent relationship and not just lgbtq students hearing that. fox news discovered that 349 stay tuned-- or teachers were arrested for child sex crimes, 75% of which were with teachers-- or with their students. these are horrifying statistics.

we teach our children about stranger danger, but to turn around and public officials say you should keep from mom and dad is appalling that we are having this discussion right now. >> mrs. neily, you mentioned that china has waged an influence campaign to get themselves implanted in our k through 12 schools. what do we know how many schools china has infiltrated and what are they teaching in the schools. >> we looked into confucius classrooms, in 34 states, including 20 near military basis, chinese teachers, chinese curriculum had come directly from ccp entities. the dollar amounts were below the higher safety act. the threshold. receiving curriculum ap books, we don't know what is being taught. our friends teaching history, uyghur genocide, tibet, are

those being taught? we don't know behind our backs. >> i want to challenge the parents in our country, taxpayers, get involved and find out what's being taught. books are silent teachers. to end, i'd like to thank president trump for commitment to safeguard our education system. last month he issued an executive order to refocus schools on academic excellence and be sure that it's free from political indoctrination. on the same day signed an executive order promoting school choice for parents to determine the best path. these affirm the president's commitment to an educational system that prioritizes

students and parents over government bureaucrats and teacher unions. thank you, and i yield back. >> i thank the gentle lady and i recognize my faith-filled friend from georgia, ms. mcbath. >> thank you, chairman wahlberg and ranking member scott. and our witnesses for being here today. i've read your testimonies. instead of gun violence, looking at how expensive getting an education has become in this country. my republican countries have been circulating a 50-page documents how to raise revenue over the expense of american families. hidden deep is a proposal for a new tax on state and federal scholarships and fellowships which i would like to submit

digitally for the record. in my home state of georgia, they've some to love scholarships, two programs that pay fully for a student's in-state tuition if they keep up their grades. i would like to make this very, very clear. national republicans are proposing an increase in taxes on for families in georgia, and across this country. students in georgia know if you work hard in school, the state will help you get through college and to this new career. this undercuts georgia's families of the nation's families. more than 185,000 georgians received almost a billion dollars in scholarships and grants through the hope program alone. all of this award money, along

with any other scholarships that a student earned would now be considered taxable income if this proposal by house republicans were to become a law. i am a mother and i know how important hope and other scholarships are to all the families across this country. i am fortunately never got to end my son jordan off to college, but we certainly had been planning for it and as a single mom working as a flight attendant before i came to congress, figuring out how we were going to pay for it was something that i thought about often, and every day. i thought about it until the day that he was murdered. the hope program was something i knew that jordan and i could rely on and it would be a gut punch for families who also rely on hope and other types of financial aid to no longer be able to count on these programs without receiving a new tax

bill. i am horrified at this attempt. families and students in our country deserve better. ms. nelson, my question is for you, in your testimony you did talk about your importance of student aid. can you briefly discuss the impact that taxing scholarships, grants, and fellowships would have on students and families at all income levels? >> absolutely, and thank you for also mentioning the issue of gun violence, i'd be remiss if i didn't say there have been over 700 school shootings in the past few decades. but to your question of taxation of scholarships, not only is that concerning because it limits the opportunities to achieve higher education, what many who are advocating for so-called school choice will do with those tax dollars is siphon them out of the public education school system and use them to find private education for just a few. so not only is it taking money

out of the pockets of people who need the funding to purse higher education. it's funneling that money into the pockets of private actors, who are trying to usurp the public school education system. >> is that something that's becoming more of a problem throughout the nation? it seems increasingly that those dollars are going to that very end. i just want to say thank you for that answer and i will do everything in my power that i can ensure that this proposal never makes it beyond this memo and i encourage all of my colleagues to fight back against this tax increase that will make students and family's lives harder and more expensive back home. i'm talking to my constituents and they're scared to death. how are they going to be able to afford to send their children to college? most of the students across the nation, they need help. they need financial assistance.

and why are we cutting them below the knees and preventing them having what they deserve, that's a global and stellar academic education. they have to be able to globally compete and this does not do that. thank you, and i yield back. >> thank the gentle lady and i recognize the gentleman from ohio. >> thank you, chairman wahlberg. mrs. kneel neily, we have seen president trump's work to combat dei in our schools, what else can we do in our schools? >> there's a lot of work to be done in congress to put meat on the bones to put the regulations in place. so i think a lot of the school board members are concerned how that is going to affect them. ed tech vendors have dropped -- to the extent for reassurance

in a clear manner, as we know these activists are willing to die on this hill dividing students along these immutable things, along race, along sex, so there needs to be a top to bottom examination, the local level, state level, and i know the department of education has taken steps to put people on leave. i think it needs to go beyond federal government down to local activity. there's so much money in the system, as mr. taylor alluded to, it's not making its way to the students or to teachers' pockets. the growth of the administrative state has been appalling the last several years and a lot of the extra money that we have seen doled out under the biden administration was again used for dei programming in blue states like california and illinois and did not use it to face the tremendous earning loss.

before the pandemic, our it was not in great shape. we have a generation that deserves a quality education. >> i can't agree with you more. i was a school board member for eight years and the exciting thing in the last two years, ohio is a, you know, it's a home rule state so we like to bring them back to the basics. but even when you look at virginia, if you want to take the school systems back throughout the country you want to start at the school board meetings. normally we know at a school board meeting it's very low attended unless there's something big and controversial going on and no one shows up there. but the people have a big voice within the school board and school board members know we will be responsible for our constituents to be reelected, so your suggestions to parents that are concerned with things that their kids tell them, taught in the school and how they approach that school board. do you have anything for that? >> my organization has a guide for parents, questions to ask, ways to speak, how to get involved. we're on the phone with parents seven days a week, talking them through the two-minute comments and hitting the high points. this is very much a case the

price of liberty is eternal vigilance. the department of education can't be everywhere and i think that we have watched the past four years, americans beginning to reengage their muscles, so many focus on the federal government. where you live matters, your back yard matters, your local officials are matter. and people get involved in that, and not be shouted down by board members who are told they're not doing a good job. >> and gifted and talented and even hearing ap class, is this in the name of dei, why is this an awful decision in your opinion for the students? >> yes, unfortunately we're watching what is called deep tracking, multi-level classes is considered a bad thing, some feel the wrong races or students are in the classes and the solution is ripped out of kurt vonnegut's, everyone is frankly a low performer.

my daughter is in a gifted program and she gets bored when she's not challenged. we want as a country to encourage students to excel and these made america the envy of the world. to turn that aside and say, no, that's white privilege is a slap in the face. my grandparents met in an internment camp, and telling because your-- systematically racist is an insult. we should try to bring up low performers, but also celebrate the high performers. >> i completely agree again. i think that ap classes maybe could be what unites both sides of the aisle to get back to where we get our kids with the eye on the prize. thank you so much. i'll yield my time back. >> thank you for the time.

i recognize the educator from connecticut. >> thank you, and thank you to all of our witnesses for testifying. i don't know who hurt you or what teachers your children have been exposed to, but that is-- none of this has ever been a part of my experience. this week, "the washington post" reported that the administration is preparing executive order to abolish the department of education. president trump has long promised to abolish the department and elon musk reiterated this on his social media platforms. since its creation in 1979 the department of education has been for high education across the country. as the chairman noted there were about one million children who participate in private school choice program, but the public education, what about them? who is advocating for them? there are not enough slots in

charter school programs for all 49 million of those children. the department protects the civil rights of students, supports students from low income backgrounds, develops and prepares educators, provides resources for english learners and responsible for 1.6 trillion in federal loan programs. in addition, the department runs the national assessment of educational progress and collects statisticsen enrollment, staffing and crime in school. the individuals with disabilities acts makes free and appropriate public education available to eligible children with disabilities. in the 2022 and 2023 school years, 7.5 million students receive special education or related services through idea, through 15% of all public students. shutting down the department of

education would profoundly impact title one schools. it's telling that none of the witnesses on this panel could say affirmatively yes that the department should be shut down because you know that the answer is no. the department administers 18.4 billion in title one program funding to low income k-12 schools. also, as i mentioned, the department runs 1.6 trillion in students loan programs, one of its largest mission. mr. cooper in your opening you talked a lot about the cost of college and i think the conversation we should have, how do we lower the cost of education, not discourage it. while many of you have a very short memory, i chose to go to college because my grandmother could not. there were laws prohibiting it. so while you throw around and weaponize words like diversity, equity, and inclusion, the naacp legal defense fund did

not come into play in these conversations as a nice gesture. it was to push back on laws that prohibited people like my grandmother from pursuing higher education. and while you are correct, mr. taylor, we need to prepare the next generation work force, as we know in an industrialized nation, that's not just going to be people who work in factories, that's going to be the doctors and the lawyers, and the teachers, and the social workers, and the community leaders, the engineers which all require college degrees. what we should be doing is trying to make every opportunity available to every student that wants it no matter what that opportunity is. ms. nelson, can you talk a little bit about what would the happen to the 7.5 million children who receive services related to ida from the

department of education and need for us to be advocating for them? what would happen to them if the department were dismantled. >> i'm glad that you mentioned the number of federal statutes that the department of education is possibly for enforcing along with the department of justice. children who need iep's, individual education plans because they learn differently, because they have challenges in different ways would be bereft of any federal support without the department of education. they would have to rely on departments often underfunded and don't have the expertise to enforce the law. the department of education is necessity to the thriving and survival and especially those more challenged. >> have you seen a push for all of these voucher programs and private charter school programs, a push to attract those students?

>> no, and that's the problem. >> i didn't either. >> that's the problem with these private schools being funded with public tax dollars. private schools are not required to accept all students, they often reject students who have learning disabilities or somehow don't fit the mold of a private school children. >> thank you, my time has expired. i yield back. >> thank the gentle lady and i recognize the gentleman from missouri, new member of the committee, glad to have you on it. >> thank you, chairman wahlberg, and thank you to the witnesses for appearing here today. in the united states today we are faced with a cruel irony that regarding k-12 education, over the last decade and this trend does go back much further, we have spent more and more on education, public education, and got in worse and worse outcomes. i spent a decade in the missouri general assembly, eight years of that on the senate education committee and over and over again, lobbyists

for the school administrators, the school board association, the teachers unions came to our committee and they had one message, give us more money. give us more money. and in missouri and niece are national statistics, indeed, we have been giving public education more money, we're up to now about almost 16,000 per student, k-12. at the same time, here are our nape scores of which the most recent data came last week. these are plummeting. they plummeted worse after covid, i would say not off covid, after the government response to covid, very dysfunctional and very harmful. but we have this irony that we're spending more on we're getting less in the way of favorable outcomes. at the same time, we have -- what are we spending the money

on? well, here, here is a graph of the growth in the blue and the green are the growth of students and teachers. about 8%, both almost identical. 37% growth in principals and assistant principals and 88% growth in other administrators. and by the way, the teachers make on average $70,000 a year, actually a little less in missouri, unfortunately. the administrators on average make $103,000 a year so this is where our money is going. this is where our money is going. we are taking our eye off the ball and not focusing on what really matters, which is these teachers teaching these students how to read and write and do math, and what's worse, we're getting our eye off the ball in other ways. instead of teaching reading, writing and math not what to

think, but how to think, instead, mrs. neily, we are spending time doing things like, well, running urgent care centers in schools, you know, wrap around services, whatever. if we can't teach kids how to read what are we doing running pediatric offices and urgent care clinics and even worse yet, we are indoctrinating these kids with pernicious ideologies. kids are learning about the 15 latest genders, but now haw to do multiplication, division and all. so, mrs. neily, i believe, by the way, i believe that the federal government is playing a very negative role in all of this, that the federal government is providing 11% of the funding, but driving this administrative bloat. i believe that the abolishing the department of education is definitely a big part of the solution. there are good parts, ipe's,

but they can be spun off. how do we focus on educating kids rather than indoctrination and bloating our school bureaucracies. >> unfortunately, i think a drop from the head. president biden had day one order injecting diversity and equity into everything. and he who pays the piper plays the tune. and they know they have to provide equity over the students. and let's go to the nea general assembly did not focus on student excellence, but do run things like abortion, foreign policy and things like that. we have teachers unions, leaders that have sold out their members, prioritizing restorative justice over actually educating children and keeping teachers safe. the teachers, they are emotional support animal, a counselor, like $250,000 a year

job, not a $60,000 a year job and that's not what they're hired for. >> i'm a physician and when i talk to my patients who are teachers, they don't want to do any of that. the great majority of them. some are idealogues. and some are paying the pipe and the tune. i yield back. >> i recognize the gentleman from new york, welcome. >> thank you, mr. chair and thank you ranking member scott and thank you to the witnesses that are joining us here today. i was a former teacher of almost 30 years, i taught science, physics, astronomy, geometry, 15 to 1 environment.

i worked directly with students, families, other teachers. education is the great equalizer and stabilizer and our public schools are the cores of our community. i was also the founding chairman of the new york state senate committee on disabilities. i'm also a parent. i understand how critical it is to make sure that our schools are well-funded, that our students have all the resources they need to be successful and that our teachers are supported and have that as well. in the new york 22nd congressional district, it's the home to great public schools that are supported by our communities, families choose to move to my district because of our fantastic schools. between my wife and i, we spent

nearly 60 years in a classroom and we spent those years in both private, public, urban, suburban, and other settings. i've seen the disparities that exist between our own public schools and the inequities that impact the chances of students meeting the great american dream and having that great equalizer of public education. i'm glad that we're having this conversation today because there are areas of education that do need improvement. but some of the things that i've heard today have nothing to do with what's happening in the classrooms, and i encourage, as the previous congressman mentioned, that you have conversations with your teachers, with your friends that are teachers, with your family members that are

teachers, that you trust. also, as a new york state legislator, i was proud to support record funding for our schools as they are performing more necessary functioning for our communities and we're asking teachers, social workers, school psychologists to do more than they ever have before and as the cores of our community, they have the ability to do so and have. i've also increased expansion of universal pre-k into various areas of the state. i more than doubled apprenticeship funding so people could change careers at whatever point in their lifetimes, including in their secondary education setting and that has transformed lives. my question is for ms. neily. i started teaching in 1993. since that time we've increased the number of parent-teacher

organizations specializing in things like special education pto's. we also have an increased number of meet the teacher nights. we live stream school board meetings. we have websites that have access to syllabus, curriculum, we have easy access to teachers, e-mail and phone calls and beyond that, we have students in classrooms with cell phones that are audio taping, videotaping or live streaming instruction in those classes. my question is a yes or no question. do you believe over the course of the last generation that parents have less access and input into education? >> yes, i do. >> i would argue that my experience and my wife's experience in a classroom and

my experience as a parent, your comment is highly subjective and inaccurate. >> thousands of parents around the country would love access, i have hundreds of parents who have to file, to have access to a lesson plan. i've paid over $100,000 over the past four years to gain e-mails and lesson plans, i know how to fight, but most average parents don't know how to and when they ask questions at a school board they're shouted down, called names, and-- >> thank you, i believe you're referring to outlying instances in new york we have over half a million students that are identified as students with disabilities. i participated in cse meetings and both sides of that table. parents understand that it's not necessary to continue the department of education and

that these students receive a fair and appropriate public education. do you believe that fulfilling our federal requirements for our students with disabilities is a distraction as you stated in the past. >> thank you, mr. chair. >> thank you. mr. harris? >> yes, sir, thank you, mr. chairman and to all of our witnesses, and thank you all for your participation today in this hearing and i've had the opportunity to review your testimonies and ms. neily i was taken in your testimony that you mentioned a threat of foreign adversaries pose to our students. we know from reports from watch dog organizations like yours, that foreign funding is an issue at the k-12 through 12 level and in higher education. cause of the lack of accountability and transparency, this is likely the tip of the iceberg from what we know. this committee worked with a select committee on ccp and

found nearly two dozen universities across the country had specialized joint research partnerships with china involving sensitive military technology. i'm particularly shocked by the lack of caution our schools have when part nering with our greatest foreign adversary, such as the chinese communist party. all of this led me to introduce the no contracts with foreign adversaries act which would begin to tackle this at the collegiate level by requiring disclosing contracts with china, north korea, russia and iran. my question to you, mrs. neily. could you just elaborate what harm does the take money first and ask questions later approach have for our students, as well as our national security? >> up fortunately, most school districts are not appear. in fairfax, the thomas jefferson technology, formerly

the number one magnet. that partners with a china military school that's supervised by the chinese defense industry, according to the australian security policy studies. the simpson county board entered into an agreement with north china power university which works with the energy sector to push the initiative belt and road initiative. things that local school boards and districts are not aware of whatsoever. oftentimes it's to secure classified information that these things are taking place. for us to open our doors and data bases to these foreign adversaries is something that is appalling and needs intervention. thank you for your work. >> thank you for your work and again, bringing this information forward because i think it's going to be absolutely critical in protecting our national security as well as our students going forward. switching gears just a little bit. in the public school system,

ms. neily, this again to you, who currently has more influence over a child's intellectual benefits, parents or bureaucrats. >> unfortunately it seems to be bureaucrats at this moment in time. when you have school officials that tell children their love is conditional and their parents might not love them because of their religion or politics, that throws up a wall that unfortunately is going to create lasting damage much beyond a child' graduation from high school. parents often i talk to them, and parents say they have to deprogram children from what they learn in school. the peer pressure and everyone around them is getting inculcated with the same materials. >> and as a follow-up, i think your paint is point is well-taken. is the federal structured to empower parents or set up to empower school systems themselves. >> i think looking at the influence that the teachers

union leadership has had over the federal government over the past several years is something that i know is likely to taper off over the next coming years and i think that american families are excited about that. >> i'd like to give you a moment just to discuss any examples you've seen of parental rights being trampled on at the expense of the woke gender movement that i think all of us in the country have been aware of? >> i think in eau claire, wisconsin they had a sign up and teacher training materials that said the rights to know child identity is earned. the idea that i have to earn something about my child. and saying that children have a right to privacy from their parents. that was not the original intent of the lay and to watch local officials take that was supposed to be a sword and shield for families is a deep slap in the face. there are federal standards in place that governs the amount of information, what can be,

what questions districts can collect from students. oftentimes school officials don't know if they're asking students about sexuality, drug use, politics, that they have to notify parents to give them the unit to opt out. and when they rern from the school associations and the superintendent, the principal's association and learning about woke topics rather than their actual responsibilities. >> well, thank you so much and i would say you've been a wealth of information this morning and to all of you on the panel, we appreciate, again, your service and the information that you've made us aware of today and mr. chairman, i yield back my time. >> thank you, i'd like to recognize from oregon. >> thank you, mr. chairman, and the panel. i won't sit here pretend that things are normal. we have been two weeks, and

things out of the project 2025 play book. members ever congress swore to protect the constitution. and neither part of the administration as the administration and elon musk take actions to violate our constitutional separations of power i know that democrats and hopefully some republicans will stand against attempts to weaken and dismantle our public education or divert public dollars to private institutions only available to a few and generally not accountable to safety and success. yesterday i was proud to introduce house resolution 94 with more than 60 colleagues in defense of public education and civil rights provided to the authority of the u.s. department of education, an authority granted by congress. and i have to say i'm pretty discounted that the chair of this committee said yesterday

he would support efforts to depower the department of education, we're all here i would hope to do the best for the students in this country. ms. nelson, you testified that voucher programs and the lack of-- that the kind of public school accountability and transparency that's required of public schools, that do they obscure whether taxpayer dollars are effectively spent and whether students receive the support they need. that was in your testimony. and testified that divestment would exacerbate on the accountability in the public system. i represent a lot of rural communities and urban communities as well. in rural communities they don't want their public education dollars, here is a voucher. there's no place to use it because there's no place even close by to use it voucher. so, what are the challenges withholding private schools accountable.

do we know how students are doing in these schools? >> yes, and thank you for naming the elephant in the room, the elephant in this country and that's basically a grand larceny of our federal government while we stand by and watch folks in this room attempt to pickpocket public education. you talk about transparency and accountability and i've heard that mentioned by some of the witnesses on this panel, if we're serious about those two concepts, we know that private education does not have the same oversight that public education does. it certainly would not have sufficient oversight if we were to dismantle the department of education. private schools operate under the radar we don't get to collect the same data and information that we do in public schools so the idea that we're necessarily giving children a better education in private schools. it's anecdote. it's not clear. >> i don't mean to interrupt, but i want more. >> what happens if a parents takes a voucher to a private

school, gosh, this isn't everything that they promised. is there any recourse to that? >> they can try to return to a public school if we were to take this to the full logical conclusion and parents are shopping children around to different private schools we know that the infrastructure of public schools and the public school system will significantly deteriorate. >> i appreciate that and i wish i had five hours to disspell some of the myths i've heard today. the so-called parents rights campaign that calls for narrow minded book bans and everybody in this committee knows because it's the law that the federal government does not dictate the curriculum and a lot of the issues i've heard discussed are local issues. so recent efforts, including the so-called parents bill of rights that moved through the house last congress are written in ways that could harm vital mental health support for students and behavioral health care, and need for behavioral health care is something i hear about constantly. in fact, the national

association of school psychologists indicated that the bill would undoubtedly exacerbate the youth mental health crisis and undermine efforts to school safety. i hope we all care about school safety and if we do, we'd do something about gun violence. how would this republican parents bill of rights and dismantling of the department of education foster a healthy and safe school climate and how would they be harmed? >> children need additional report. we agree that all children should leave school with basic education, reading, math, everything else and require additional support, as i know as a parent, students are not just what they learn in the tex books, they are nurtured by their teachers and environment and deserve the types of investments that will enable them to succeed. what we've heard today is a lot of anecdotal conspiracy rhetoric what is happening in

schools, as a proud product of the public school system and proud parent of children who attended public schools, i've seen nothing of the same. >> same. children don't learn when they're hungry or sick so the thought of withdrawing support, support for students is not appropriate, it's baffling. i yield back. >> thank you. right now recognize from indiana. >> that you, mr. chairman. mr. taylor, apprenticeships are a proven model, and to educate workers for career success. registered apprentices 3% of the work force. what are the barriers to greater adoption of apprenticeship from the broader standpoint and challenge in engaging students to purse those apprenticeships?

>> thank you. we're huge, huge supporters of apprenticeships, we need them to address the worker shortage and more importantly, a skilled worker shortage. the sooner we can allow students in college to grain experience while in college, we're increasing the pipeline of qualified workers. the barriers, one, the word apprenticeship suggests, when you speak to people out of higher ed, that's not quite, you know, you don't need an apprenticeship. i'm a lawyer for training, for example, and my apprenticeship was considered a summer associate. the way we talk about it is less attractive to students, they assume that apprenticeship may be tied to becoming a welder, it's a very good job and may pay more than the lawyer out of law school.

but we talk about the astigmatization of that. and often times apprenticeships unpaid. ... are unpaid. and i've got to tell you, as much as one wants to get experiential treatment, if you have to choose between and oftentimes children, i was one of those children who had to spend the summer making money to pay for school for the next year. and so if i had the choice, had if i had the choice had to make the tough choice between unpaid apprenticeship and working a job that didn't give me skills that were preparing to be a a better lawyer but one s unpaid, to the extent this congress can helpha us fund thoe apprenticeships those are the significant barriers we see. it's not limited to a stroke and represent, a number of majority members who, in places like west virginia where they may be financially challenged and they can't participate in apprenticeship programs because of funding. >> thank you. ms. neily, tomorrow i will

produce the instruct act which will require intelligence agencies to boost their interagency coordination on foreign influence our schools as long as sure all past reports on topic across departments. in your opinion tv this legislation is a step in right direction? >> absolutely. schools click the vast amount of data about children on a regular basis. it's not secured. we all hear about schools been hacked. what is going to happen when that information about military families or average families is held by hostile foreign power that seeks to expose? it's terrifying and your bill is a step in right direction. >> thank you. is accepting money from foreign sources lead to education system being told into the valleys, influences that don't share american values? >> absolutely. we don't know was writing the books. for parents toci know if that information means they can make an informed decision whether to what their child to enroll in a

mandarin course or to take spanish course instead. paris deserve the right to make that decision with complete information which as of this moment they currently do not have. >> thank you. in my home state school choice programs have shown to statistically benefit minority populations at a much higher ratio than rest of the population. can you validate with statistical data rather than anecdotal claims that school choice programs analyze minority students? >> certainly. i'md so glad you raised your on a quarter of the students who are required repeat grades in your state are black in nearly one-tenth are latino. i will tell you that school vouchers in many of the programs that we're aware of have decreased the learning of the student who have those vouchers. it is not improve educational

outcomes. it is left of them -- >> you can provide statistics to show? >> i can't, i can provide physical data. >> contract what we've seen interstate. >> well, i'm happy to share what our studies have shown. in fact, if you look at the state of south carolina out to be that example, with the supreme court of the state of south carolina just last november in a court case held their voucher program contradicted the state constitution and was unconstitutional because it trained resources from the public school system. there are concerns not only about the educational value, when you school vouchers but also what it does to destroy the political system for the rest of the children, the vast majority of children who are left without vouchers and are in the public school system. we don't want a focus on those of vouchers. we want to focus on the majority of students in this country, the

nearly 50 million who don't have vouchers to shop around and try to finddu a better education. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i yield back. >> thank you. i would like to now recognize from pennsylvania ms. lee. >> thank you, mr. chair. i am glad where having this hearing today because i do strongly agree the state of america, the education and t american should be concerned. perhaps i disagree on whate ca s the most serious threats. i disagree on the seriousness of the assertion that most searched threats are things such as woke ideology or radical indoctrination or the fact that lgbtq+ people exist. i do believe among the most serious are the dismantling of public education. republicans focus on demonizing our most marginalized students to distract from the fact they have no intention or we have, we us have not heard of any

attention to improve the state of education. but in general ard this topic, we hear a lot of buzzwords such as school choice, or parents' rights, or education freedom, or indoctrination, or federal overreach, and that is by no coincidence. these are talking points that we saw were core tenets of project 2025 and this plan conservatives outlined how they would education, gut public education, strip away civil rights protections, and impose an extreme ideological agenda on our schools. right now the president is reportedly preparing an executive order to bypass congress and illegally impound funds within the department of education, a first step toward dismantling the agency altogether. the president has promised to attack these institutions, and he's doing that. and let's be clear about what these policies really mean, because we've seen them before. these are the same arguments that were used to resist desegregation, to justify pulling public dollars out of integrated schools and pouring them into segregated academies,

and to privatize or prioritize incarceration over the education of black and brown students. the language has changed, but the goals seem to remain the same. attorney nelson, when we hear conservatives pushing for parents' rights and claim to be fighting against indoctrination, what do you see are the natural consequences of these efforts, and what influence do you think it has on our students' curricula or the learning environment for the for the students or the teachers? ms. nelson: yeah, we absolutely believe that parents should be involved in children's education. this is not a new concept. if you talk to any teacher, any teacher would welcome parents to engage. what we don't want is parents to override the expertise of teachers who we have hired because they are specialized in teaching and training students about what should be in the curricula, about what should be in terms of our national standards, right, federal laws that have been passed that have been informed by experts, research, and other data, not the anecdotes that people want to bring to advance their own political ideology.

so inviting extremist groups like moms for liberty to determine what the curricula of this country would be would be absolutely disastrous. they would be peddling an indoctrination by ignorance, indoctrination by deprivation of knowledge, and that certainly does not allow us to be a competitive country and does not serve all of our children to succeed. rep. lee: yeah, very quickly, do you believe that dismantling the department of education would help us fulfill the promises of brown? ms. nelson: absolutely not. it would be counter to the very premise of brown. the department of education began because we recognized the need for there to be national standards and national oversight of our public education system and for there to be a federal apparatus to enforce our federal civil rights laws as they pertain to education and other laws. rep. lee: thank you. how do you think, if at all, do these conservative policies or proposals make our students more

competitive, improve the global standing of the united states, or prepare our students to enter emerging careers, or ensure that our students will be prepared to address the significant challenges on the horizons? ms. nelson: no, to the extent that these conservative policies attack diversity, equity, and inclusion, basic principles of fairness, those are america last policies. those are not policies that will advance our students to become competitive in an increasingly global marketplace, in an increasingly global economy. we should be leveraging our diversity. it is our greatest strength. we should be leveraging multilingualism. instead, we are trying to find ways to really narrow the focus of our education and to replace it with conservative extremist ideology. rep. lee: thank you. and while the most harmed, per usual, will be black and brown students, students with disabilities, and other marginalized students, we all

pay the price. as attorney nelson just said, while our commitment to racism may be lucrative for the billionaires running the administration right now, the rest of this nation will learn that we will all sink or swim together. the outcomes in disinvestment reserved or accepted for the black students will be reflected in our global standing in tech and innovation. while other nations invest in all of their students to increase their global competitiveness, racism in our public schools will serve as an anchor for ours. i thank you in the panel, and i yield back. chair walberg: i thank the general lady, and i recognize the vice vice chairman of our committee, mr. owens from utah. rep. owens: thank you, mr. chairman. first of all, this is such an important hearing, state of our education, uh, one of the most important conversations we have about our most important national resource, our children. it's been interesting. first of all, we can all agree based on recent results that our present educational system is failing our children miserably. we pay more per child than any other industrialized country

except luxembourg, and yet 60% -- this is not anecdotal -- 60% of our 4th graders, 70%, this is not anecdotal, of our eighth graders are failing based on the naep reading and math scores. we are paying more per student with a lower return investment 70% failure rate, and we can no longer do this. and i'll be honest with you, i would be a little bit more accepting as a stakeholder in the naacp if they were not silent when 75% of our black boys were found in in 2017 not to be able to read and write in the state of california. we have here in baltimore zero proficiency in math for many of our students. when you have black mothers and fathers lining up to get into a choice -- a voucher program because they're living in a zip code, they can't -- the kids cannot get educated. and we have the audacity to say we're experts at education. the parents are ignorant. and yet we have this remarkably failing system.

the answer has been so far let's put more money into it. you know, i've been hearing this for 40 years. we cannot disturb, we cannot mess up this system because -- institution -- because our kids, we can't take our kids out because our institution will fail. well, when we have this kind of failure, we need to make sure our kids are focused on in that direction. we need correction through innovation, merit through every piece of the pipeline. the only way to do that is have this conversation and giving our parents a choice. mrs. neily, i want to say thank you. it's good to see you again. and i think you -- support you have for thousands upon thousands of parents across this country that are not really respected in this body here. you are the stakeholders. as a parent, i know what's best for my kid, and i would think everybody in this room would feel the same way. you would do everything you could to get out your child out of a failing school system. well, we need to start looking at other people's children the way we look at ours. ms. neily, your testimony, you

mentioned the school districts paid dei consultants millions of dollars. can you explain to us exactly how those dei consultants what -- what they were paid for? ms. neily: sure, in 2021 we released what we called our consultant report card. we identified over 100 consultants with hundreds of contracts in dozens of districts across the country, making money hand over fist, encouraging districts to do things like privilege walks, privilege bingo, things that are not helping children, but are actively hurting them. a study by the network contagion research institute showed that dei programming, surprise surprise, leads to more divisions in interpersonal relationships. and so when we see districts spend money on this, it actually might have been better used literally lighting out a fire because at least then children would be warm instead of hating each other. rep. owens: dr. cooper, critics of the market-based and accountability mechanisms such as risk sharing and performance funding often argue that they would punish the open access institutions or deter collegess from enrolling low-income students who have a lower

likelihood of success. however, these critics don't seem to fit your testimony as it relates to accountability system proposed under the college cost reduction act. what did you find in your analysis of the bill's accountability system? and do you believe the schools will ultimately reduce the share of low-income and disadvantaged students they were they enrolled as a result? mr. cooper: my analysis of the college cost reduction act, excuse me, found the exact opposite of what the critics allege. we find that open access institutions, community colleges, regional public four-years, would actually benefit from the college cost reduction act because the ccra rewards schools for enrolling low-income students and also serving them well, getting them through, making sure they graduate, making sure that they have good earnings after graduation, and they're keeping their prices to a reasonable level. rep. owens: ok, thank you. i'm going to -- i have a question that i'm going to have done in writing and sent to you. i'll just say this, i grew up at a time where education was our gateway, segregated community. we led our country because parents and teachers understood their responsibility to our

kids. we segregate entrepreneurs in a segregated black community because education was put in place to help our kids, not this institution. we're going to change that. and for those who don't get it yet, let me suggest you go out and talk to some parents who really are stuck in these areas that they can't get out of. matter of fact, i'll take it further. how about taking your kids and letting them go into these failing schools and just see how how cool it is to have all this other stuff going on and reading, writing, and understanding math is not a priority. so we're going to make this change. i'm excited about the process. i look forward to working with my colleagues across the aisle. kids should come first. that's our top priorities. thank you, and i will yield back. chair walberg: i think the gentleman and recognize the passion that allows you to wear a super bowl ring. in july but on -- -- and who should i bench on -- no, we won't. now i recognize the gentleman from texas, a new member of our committee.

glad to have you on it. welcome, mr. casar. rep. casar: thank you, chairman. today we've heard from house republicans on this committee support for trump and musk's plan to abolish the department of education, to slash critical programs that help students like title i, pell grants, financial aid, and programs that help kids learn, all to pay for a tax break for trump's billionaire buddies and for friends of elon musk. today we've heard on the committee alarming support from house republicans for a national voucher scam that would pull money out of our public schools and hand it out in private contracts just to enrich their billionaire donors and their friends. and if you can't believe it, just take a look at what's happened here over the last couple of months. musk has been using the federal government to get himself even more rich. he spent $277 million to elect

donald trump, and since the election, he's become $154 billion richer. how is making billionaires richer while taking money away from our kids -- how is that good for education? how is that good for student outcomes? how is that good for our community? how is that good for our taxpayers? it's good for no one but trump's ego and for musk's pocketbook. in places like texas, i've seen rural republicans speak out against these voucher scams, because they know that pulling money out of our teachers and out of our public schools to hand over to unaccountable voucher schools is not empowering parents. it's taking money away from parents and handing it to these companies. for years, unaccountable unregulated private schools have stolen public money through state voucher programs.

we know some of those voucher schools took public funds for kids that weren't even intended or even going to those schools, weren't attending that school, embezzling millions of dollars. embezzling millions of dollars. elon musk has used this kind of thing to his advantage for years. remember, he is a government contractor himself is taking untold amounts of money from the federal government and saying he is trying to make it more efficient, but what's really happening as he is trying to make it more efficient for himself. who feels that cap? is that our teachers spending their extra money they barely have so they can support our students? is that taxpayers have to pay to fill the gap essentially back paying the tax cap?

-- tax gap? how does that improve learning for our students? we must continue to fight, and i'm ready to fight on a bipartisan basis. if we can see some bravery from some number of rural republicans like i have seen in places like texas who are willing to stand up to the grip, willing to stand up to the corruption of, willing to stand up for our students. we can improve our education system and we can do it without stripping it for parts and selling it to the highest bidder. trump, musk, and their minions want to expand these voucher scams because they want to improve their own wealth and their own standing in the stock market. this drg -- this doge is the department of billionaire

corruption. from politically motivated firings last week to privatized education to eliminating old departments against the constitution so private contractors can cash in, trump and musk are focused on one thing -- enriching themselves, no matter the cost to americans. i would hope to hear some house republican spine against this spineless corruption, and unfortunately, what i have been hearing in committee today is people either being silent or going along with it even though they know it will hurt your kids. state after state after state where they have passed these voucher scans, even of republicans that vote for it, you talk to them, publicly and privately, say this did not help . all it did was take money away from schools asking for help. people like us entrusted with positions of power, we should be

using it responsibly and not just going along with folks that already have more wealth than they have had in the history of this planet. >> i recognize the chairman of the workforce protection subcommittee, mr. mckenzie from pennsylvania. >> thank you, mr. chairman, for the opportunity to talk about the state of american education today. i appreciate all of our pacifiers -- all of our testifiers sharing their experience. for the years i have been in public office, both at the state level and here at the federal level now, we have been touting and advocating choice. we have said that higher education is not only about 4-year colleges, but we have said that there are so many other good options available, too, if it is career and technical schools, going into the military, going straight into the workforce.

lots of choice at the higher education level. what we have in america is we have the best system of higher education in the entire world because of that choice. that is a key element of our higher education system. but when we talk about k-12 education, for some reason, people want to oppose choice. they want to block choice. they want to hold people in positions where they are failing . i want to give an example of a family that came to me to talk about their young daughter who is in high school. she is a low-income student but in a very good school district. by all accounts, she should have been getting a good education, but ultimately, she became the victim of bullying. i'm not just talking about light bullying or friendly jostling in the hallways. this was assault. i saw the videos. the school meted out the proper punishment, but ultimately, the perpetrator ended up back in the

same school, and that student felt like she could not actually go to school and learn in a safe environment even though it was a good school. everyone in the community knows that is a great school district and she should be getting a good education. the parents wanted to consider their different options. they looked at online schooling and said that would not work for her. they said two working parents would not be able to be there and supervise her on a day in and day out basis. she will not be able to learn in that kind of environment. so they looked to private schools. price was too expensive. she did not qualify for any scholarships, so that option was closed to them as well. because they were not wealthy, they did not have that choice. finally, there were charter schools in our community. they looked at the charter schools, but those seats were capped because people who wanted to oppose choice said she could not get an additional seat in that school. ultimately, she was stuck in this situation where she was in

a great school district were almost all the other students are learning well, but she, as a victim of bullying, was stuck in an environment where she did not feel safe. she was not ultimately going to school, she was not learning. she was going to be on a path to failing that school year because of opposition to choice. when people stand up here in opposition to choice, i want to recognize that there are real victims. when you oppose choice, there are people, there are individuals in those classrooms who are the victims of your opposition to choice. so what we need to do is talk about expanding choice for everybody so that every student has that opportunity to succeed. it should not just be for the wealthy. it should be for every student, regardless of your race, regardless of your socioeconomic status. we want that choice for everybody. the public wants that choice. public opinion polling overwhelmingly is in favor of school choice. that is the minority position,

to oppose choice in k-12 education. that is a losing position. it is not only failing our public, it is failing students like the one i talked about today. what i want to do is i want to raise up those voices of parents . i want to raise up the voices of advocates for school choice. those are not just buzz words. there are real people and real lives attached to those movements. when we stand here and a post, i want you to recognize you are not just opposing choice. you are opposing that girl who is a victim of bullying. you are opposing her getting a better education, a better opportunity, and better life. mr. chairman, i thank you for the opportunity to have this session. we have lots of things that we can improve upon, but there are so many good things going on across this country that

everybody should have access to. every single person should have those same opportunities, not just the wealthy, which is what is going on in this country right now. we can expand those opportunities to individuals that are not wealthy and give them the same opportunities as the wealthy by giving them choice. mr. chairman, i will yield back to you, but i want to say thank you for this opportunity and i look forward to advancing legislation this session that will help every american student get the best opportunity and the best life that they can have. thank you. >> i think the gentleman and i recognize mr. kiley from california. >> thank you, mr. chair. we have just received the latest test scores for students across this country, and they are absolutely alarming. what we see is that the trend

continues to be one of decline, as you can see in this chart right here. the bottom part of the graph shows 2013 for the present, average scores in reading and math and the top of the chart is particularly interesting because that shows the level of spending. you can see the spending line above that. this is steady growth in spending in real dollars that is proceeding in tandem with the steady decline in student achievement. when we talk about the reforms that will be considered by the president as well as by this committee, i certainly welcome any arguments against them that seek to identify what the implications of those reforms might be, but there are two

responses that i think are fully inadequate and are, frankly, the only responses we have heard today from the other side of the dais. number one is defending the status quo. this is the status quo. it is failure, continuing decline, a continual dimming of the prospects of america's young people and diminished capacity of america to lead the world. the second response also inadequate is to say the solution is to just spend more money under the current system because as we can see, there has been an inverse relationship between spending and student achievement. mr. taylor, you mentioned earlier that simply spending more money does not necessarily help matters. why do you believe that is, that we see this reverse correlation between spending and student achievement? >> we ultimately refer to the

k-16 system as the product that employers buy, and we are increasingly seeing a lower quality product come out of the system. if we go back to the manufacturer, you get into the system and ask them and they say we are spending more money on it, we are telling the you are not giving us what we need. there's not enough volume, and the people that do come through, the product often does not have the skills. some of those, what people call soft skills, we call power skills. they do not know how to interact with other employees, they don't know how to work on teams. they don't know how to show up to work on time. a startling number of gen z parents are showing up to

interviews with them. we are telling on the other end of this that the product you are delivering is suboptimal. >> there are examples of schools and school systems that do quite well, that have an excellent educational product. i'm grateful that the chair has trusted me to lead the subcommittee that spends k-12 education as well as pre-k. our overarching goal will be to look at how we can make it so these examples of really good schools and school systems become the norm rather than the exception. i think there are principles that you can clearly identify with successful school systems. they allow flexibility in terms of how schools are operated. they demand accountability for actual outcomes, and they provide parents and families with choices. this is generally a characterization of how charter schools work. charter schools have been very successful in many states across the country. some of the priorities that our

committee will focus on, number one, the question of funding. how do we reimagine the role of federal government in education, both when it comes to the bureaucracies that exist and how funding gets allocated? number two is how can we support school choice in estates and hold states accountable for policies that run against school choice? number three is how can we assist educators across the country in incorporating the very powerful, personalized learning tools and advancing -- and advances in technology made available? number four is examining how literacy is being taught across the country. there are still way too many districts and states that do not properly teach literacy. number five is expanding the role of career education, which i know is a major priority. number six is we need to look at the broken nature of special education funding, which is clearly inadequate for many districts, causing many

districts to dip into their general fund budget and is not giving students with special needs in families the support they need. i think we have a tremendous opportunity to catalyze absolutely amazing education reform across the country that will go a long way towards helping millions of kids and better preparing our country for global leadership. i go back. >> i thank the gentleman and we wish you well on those ideas and challenges. i now have the privilege of recognizing the chairwoman emeritus for this committee, mrs. fox, from north carolina. >> thank you, chairman, and i thank our witnesses for being here today. an important topic that you are dealing with. dr. cooper, parent plus program has been regarded by many as the

most predatory program in the federal student loan debts portfolio. like grad plus, these loans have origination fees four times higher than the stafford loans provided for students and a 9% interest rate, which is higher than many student private loans today. moreover, payer plus loans have no limit on how much parents can borrow. can you discuss the harms of payer plus as well as who is actually benefiting from these programs? >> thank you, dr. foxx. it is simply a predatory loan program. there is no other way to describe it. interest fees exceed 9%. what's more, 20% of the parents who are getting parent plus loans have an expected family contribution of zero, and that means the federal government has determined that those parents can contribute nothing financially to their children's

education. yet, that same federal government is turning around and handing them an effectively unlimited loan. the ones who really benefit other colleges. out of 5000 colleges in the united states, just 500 of those use more than 80% of parent plus loans issued every year. >> let me do a follow-up. last, -- last congress, my colleagues on the other side of the claimed they were formed lending to allow for more flexible borrowing when it would cut off federal aid access to hundreds of students. is this actually true? >> i think that reflects a misunderstanding of what the college cost reduction act actually does. only 10% of students only use parent plus dollars. the urban institute found that over 90% of college students

would be unaffected by the limits imposed in the college cost reduction act. who would be affected are the schools charging outrageous amounts and forcing the amounts onto parents and i would say not allowing this schools to force some of the loans onto the parents is a feature, not a bug. >> i know employers are thinking about student debt of their employees. we have been trying to address that issue here. i find it crazy that we allow people to borrow unlimited amounts through the plus loan program and worse, that we allow parents and even grandparents to borrow unlimited amounts when the federal government has determined they have no ability to pay them off. how do you feel about the plus loan program and do you think it is fairly lynn the money out in this manner? >> great to see you. we have been talking about this

for a long time. i think the parent plus loan, to use the term predatory, as that program currently works, is an understatement. the flipside is we know that on the employment side, people show up with $150,000 debt and an undergraduate degree in art or communications or whatever it is. they simply cannot focus on their work because they are working two jobs. it is not at all unusual to find someone who is under that kind of debt load from that undergraduate debt load, and, my gosh, if they were to get a masters degree, and they simply cannot perform. they are working 40 hours with us and 30 hours in the evening and they come to us and are not their best. we are therefore not getting our return on investment. we fire them and it is a vicious cycle.

the policy i'm certain as well intended, but in the end, it has made it difficult for employers to retain high quality people and to see the productivity and efficiency that we need. >> thank you. two weeks ago, i introduced the family rights and responsibilities act. the legislation affirms the fundamental right parents have to direct the education and upbringing of their children. before interfering in educational choices, the bill requires federal government to prove a compelling government interest. in your experience, does the department of education know a child's needs better than parents did? >> absolutely not. parents know what is going on. they know what their children's needs are, what their children's education style are. parents need to be able to choose an institution that comports with the values they want instead of what a bureaucratic government wants.

>> i think the gentlelady and recognize the conservative conscience from wisconsin. >> ok, a couple things. first of all, i'm going to look at college. at the university of wisconsin in 1993, there were 26,000 full-time employees, ok? 10 years later, the number of full-time employees went from 26,000 to 33,000, but the number of faculty fell from about 7200 to 5008 hundred. there was a dramatic cut in the number of faculty and a dramatic increase in the number of what i will call administrative staff, something that was not teaching. can you comment on that at all? i believe that as a nationwide trend. that is why i want to bring it up. we always talk about cost of education. it seems to me -- i have talked

to some people in universities. they try to give me honest answers. what is the deal on that? >> america's universities absolutely have a spending problem. u.s. universities and colleges spend more per student than any other large country in the developed world and the university of wisconsin is just one example. >> ok. well, that's good. i will give you another question. different countries start educating their students formally at different ages. in america, could be five years old, could be six years old, whatever. but there's no question that some countries like finland or singapore, start a formal education later and thereby have a higher percentage of children with their parents. do you know why -- can you

comment on this idea of the american idea of cost, trying to get the children away from their parents earlier and earlier, which i hear some advocates for, as opposed to doing it in other countries where we have more confidence in the parents? do you have some comment on that? i just want a comment on that. since we are supposed to be a free country, why don't we emulate countries like israel -- i'm sorry, emulate countries like finland and singapore where the parents are primarily responsible for the children at a younger age. >> studies have shown that universal pre-k has boosted the ability of students to succeed in every context. if you invest in pre-k, you see the dividends returned at every other step of the education system. the other countries that you refer to that enable parents to stay with their children longer

also have social supports for this families. they have a social safety net. they have other income that they provide for families in order to sustain their economic wherewithal when they are unable to work because they are taking care of their children. >> right. i'm familiar with the brookings institution study on headstart. it showed it was not that good. do any of the other three of you have an opinion on getting kids in a formal setting at a younger age? >> i think the devil is in the details on how we execute on some of these things. the programs we are seeing, the pervasive poisonous ideology, if we start that even earlier at younger ages and start to teach children to identify themselves and others on the basis of race, sex, or other immutable characteristics, it continues to exploit the power dynamic between an adult and child. to the extent where parents want to keep their children home, i think reversal pre-k removes that choice from children and that is something i oppose.

>> what i propose is that what we know is we have a problem keeping women in the workforce. they disproportionately are responsible for early childcare. to the extent there is an opportunity for a woman to go back to work who wants to go back to work -- and this is not exclusively women but disproportionately women -- we can do that by allowing them to ensure high quality for their children that is also education. >> thank you to my conservative witness. next question i have for you. i was talking to some school superintendents recently, and they felt one of the reasons that they were struggling in school providing good education is a lot of the children come from difficult family backgrounds, and they felt there was a difference in the children in a stable two-parenting -- not that single parents do a fantastic job -- in many cases, fantastic job, but nevertheless,

they felt overall they were able to do a better job with the kids with both parents there. could you comment on that? we have a decline in america in the number of kids with both mom and dad at home, and it seems to hurt the outcomes of the education system -- is that true? >> the american enterprise on students has done terrific research on this. children obviously do better with two-parent households, so to the extent we see programs in school that encourage the disruption -- >> i will give you one more question -- the gentleman's time is expired. he will have to get the question in writing. i will let you finish the question. >> i think she's -- >> there are programs in school that prioritize the disruption of the western nuclear family, a two-parent household, things like that, so when students learn and are being taught lessons like that, i think it is

negative. >> the gentlemen's time is expired. now i recognize my friend andy ranking member, mr. scott from virginia, for his questions -- my friend and the ranking member. >> the always have the right to know things about their children even if there is credible evidence that the child would be in danger if the parents get that information? >> education officials are mandatory reporters. if a school official believes a child is in danger, they are obligated to report that to child protective services. the cps process is onerous, but there is due process built into it. >> showed the parent always know? >> a parent should know and less a school has -- unless a school has determined that they are humble, and that should be referred to cps -- >> should the parents have veto power over the curriculum? >> parents should have the choice to determine an educational setting that works for their child. if a parent decides a public

school is not providing the values or quality education they want, they should be allowed to provide another alternative. which families can already. poor families may not. >> should parents of public schools have veto power over the curriculum back >> parents should have access so they can know if it is a good fit or not. accessing the information has been problematic from coast-to-coast. >> so they should not have veto power -- >> i did not say that. >> you did not say. i was asking the question. should they have veto power over the curriculum? >> i have never seen or heard of a school district where a parent has tried to exercise veto power over what a curriculum is -- >> is there evidence that increases in vouchers and public and private education leads to segregation? >> yes, there is evidence that the increase in voucher use, voucher scams siphons money from the public education system and

leaves some of the children who are most vulnerable without adequate resources, and we know that those children are disproportionately black, latino, low income, and people with learning disabilities. >> i think you are further studies that show that increased diversity in the school leads to increased student achievement? >> yes. there are studies that show that increases in diversity, equity, and inclusion create a more hospitable environment for learning, that they increase higher graduation rates. they improve critical thinking, better problem-solving ability, increase student satisfaction and motivation, improved self-confidence. there are a multitude of benefits to having a more inclusive learning environment. >> is there any evidence republican -- public education is enhanced by school choice? >> know, there is not, if you define school choice by the voucher scam programs that are

being peddled. school choice exists within our public education school system. there are many opportunities for students to learn in different ways that can be accommodated by strengthening our public education school system without vouchers. >> what with the elimination of title i due to equitable educational opportunities? >> it would be absolutely devastating. there are many students who come from low income families who rely on title i funding, who rely on school lunch programs, free breakfast programs, and other ways to nurse them so that they can nourish their minds during the school day. >> what problems do we need to address in public education? >> we need to address real problems, not fictional or anecdotal issues that people are using to alarm parents across the country. what is really plaguing our schools is inequitable funding. there is not an argument that we necessarily need to pour in more dollars. we need to take dollars away from things like funding prisons

where we fund prison populations at a rate of three times the amount that we fund per capital pupil investments. >> that is a historically recent phenomenon? >> yes. yes. almost every person who spoke today flouting their education system is spending nearly three times the amount on prisoners that they are on actual students. we also know that racial segregation in our schools has actually increased in the past 30 years because of some of the reasons i mentioned earlier in my testimony. >> let me ask mr. taylor question. is there inherent value that cannot be instantaneously monetized in a deliverable -- in a liberal arts education. >> absolutely, yes. >> how do you improve access to that opportunity, or should we just leave that opportunity to those that can afford it? >> no, absolutely not. what we have found, especially

at some of our more premium, premier employers, many of the high-end professional firms is that we find people with degrees in anthropology, liberal arts, music, arts, are incredible critical thinkers. they learn to work with others and are very innovative and creative, so we see lots of advantage to the traditional undergraduate education, liberal education. >> i thank the gentleman. now i would like to recognize the ranking member for his closing remarks. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i think we have heard a lot about school choice. it is really a false choice. it just leads to separate and unequal schools. i thought we had gotten away from that 60, 70 years ago. we need to focus on improving education, for the vast majority of students will be attending

public schools. we need to also make sure in higher education, that people have access to higher education. i think everybody can agree that it is not affordable right now. as mr. cooper suggested, people are calculating that it is not worth it. the solution to that would not be tell people not to go. the solution to that would be make it more affordable so that everybody can have that opportunity. as mr. taylor mentioned, if it is technically aligned with a particular job or not, because a liberal arts degree has inherent value, and there are job-training programs. we need to continue working on that. i think we are on the right track on that, but access to higher education will be a

challenge. we just cannot allow the present situation. 30, 40 years ago, virtually any college you wanted to go to you could afford to go to. with a summer job and 15 hours a week during the school year, you could work your way through college and come out with no debt. now, as has been suggested, you work 40 hours a week and still cannot come out of college without crushing debt. we have challenges in higher education, but the numbers and results of where we are in k-12 obviously suggest that we need to make significant improvements , but dismantling the public education system is not the right course. thank you for holding the hearing and i yelled back -- i yield back. >> i thank the gentleman, and i

thank the witnesses for what you have added to our hearing today because it would not be a hearing without witnesses, but credible witnesses who can speak from differing viewpoints, and i think that is the same with this committee here. i think i could safely assume that this committee, we agree on the basics of education in the workforce. we have to have an educated workforce, and that comes from good educational institutions that are achieving, that are making it. i would think that the majority -- i know for myself -- i don't oppose public education. i don't want to decimate public education. my first 13 years of education was in public education. and a mother who was a public school teacher and several aunts , daughter-in-law, all in public education. but i think we also ought to be able to agree that we have

problems. and those problems are opportunities, and at this point in time, i think we can agree that we are not achieving the excellence that we want to achieve, and i safely say that. ida funding is not funded completely. we know that. the department of education is responsible for that. scores are going down. anti-semitism and anti-americanism has put up its ugly head on our higher education institutions -- our elite higher education institutions as well. after spending $1 trillion since the inception of the department of education, we are still failing, so we have the opportunity to at least work toward solutions, and that will

cause creative tension and some heat and some disagreement, but i think it is important at this time that we jealously -- and that is a word i want to use -- steward our article one authorities, but that also includes not fearing outside influences up to and including the president of the united states and whoever he has as advisors and assistance -- assistants to find out what we need. we can use that as a goad to do even better, if we agree or disagree. i happen to agree. for this committee will work on finding solutions within our article one authorities and powers and responsibilities, and we'd better not let down on that. students, parents, teachers are our number one priority in the educational system, correct?

and then the workforce is what we've got to point our eyes toward, what area -- whatever area of workforce there is, they need to be the best educated and prepared possible. expressing our diversity best would be in the context of merit and excellence and how we achieve that in the end is important. we have that opportunity on this committee to help determine where we go. yes, we want more choice on our side of the aisle. i'm not so sure that all of our colleagues on the other side would disagree with that. what choice it is, but we want more choice and we want the same choice that billionaires already have. i think i'm right on that one. billionaires already have choice and have the money to pay for it

and they already do that. we have the money to give choice to everybody as much as humanly possible, but i believe we can agree on our desire to improve educational opportunity for all, and that is where i want us to focus from this first hearing on . i went with expectation of how we can work together and how we can work in a creative tension to force all of our ideas to be better in the outcome of it all. i think a lot if not all has been said today, and right now, all have said it, so if there are no further business to be conducted here and without objection, committee stands adjourned. without objection the community stands adjourned. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]