we are founded by these television companies and more including media. >> nearly 30 years ago media, was founded on a powerful idea. cutting-edge broadband to underserved communities from coast-to-coast wheat connected week connectedeight or 50000 mi. our team broke speed there's delivered one gig speed to every customer and lead the way in developing a 10g platform enough media, mobile it's offering the fastest most reliable network on the go. mediacom decorative dedication, decades ahead. support c-span along wit these other television providers. giving him a front row seat to democracy. >> trump administration stance on conflict in ukraine among the speakers, fiona hill former sumer director for europe and russia at the national security

council. this is about an hour and 20 minutes. [inaudible conversations] >> okay folks, welcome to the brookings institution. my name is benjamin i am a senior fellow in governance studies and the editor of l'affaire. and i can't think of a more unpleasant occasion on which to gather here. this is, as you know, the third anniversary of the full-scale russian invasion of ukraine. and we are here to talk about a variety of matters related to that and related as well to immense ongoing change of u.s.

policy with respect to the war. we are also here to introduce a project that we have been working on at l'affaire for the last year or so. which we will talk about and introduce. which is a project that wetr hae done with their colleagues at goat rodeo on the history of u.s. ukrainian o relations in te post-soviet. vis-à-vis russia. at that sounds well-timed to the moment, perhaps it is. i cannot think of a group of people i'd rather talk about a subject with let me go from left to right.

which is hosting this event. and to whom we are all guests. and seated next to her is tyler mcbrien the managing editor at l'affaire in one of the coast of the escalation podcast but seated next too him is the other cohost of the escalation podcast is joining us. and, to my left is the great fionaa hill was a senior fellow here and among other things including the first one and we are going to talk about that momentarily. before we do however, we arrange this event when there was one major government change that was

affecting western policy toward ukraine. that was a transition from them by administration to the trump administration and the shock therapy that is applying to the situation. there is now a second one which is we did have elections in germanye yesterday. they produce something of a mixed message with respect to the ukraine policy. and so i wanted to ask you to get us started. and give us a sense what happened in germany yesterday? how we should understand it? vis-à-vis ukraine and how we should understand it the american shift in policy with respect to ukraine. >> thank you very much. and it is a distinct pleasure to cohost this with you. because the center on u.s. and

europe has taken the changes are brought on europe and the transatlantic relationship by the russians full-scale invasion seriously.y it's literally reconfigured the way we work in every possible way. and i could not think of a better thing to do with a better group of people so thank you. >> thank you. >> as for the german election, i am still processing. [laughter] but, to those of you who occasionally called follow the incoming new chancellor of germany has made some newsworthy comments. both yesterday and previous days. on europe's need for nuclear weapons. what seems to him like the end of transatlantic relations and so on. suffice it to say this is a chancellor, and who in all fairness aloft scholz is deeply committed to europe.

also to the transatlantic relationship and the friendship with america except that he is committed to the old transatlantic relationship and the america that he grew up with. so, the current shift in washington i've agreed to make that slowly difficult for. him. now, i do not want to joke about the situation. i've just come back from three weeks in europe. the real turmoil in the transatlantic started with jd vance the vice president speech in munich on valentine's day, fed by 14th. i was in the overflight of the overflow of the overflow room listening to it. because every single participant of the munich security wanted to hear i think it is fair to say that europeans were profoundly

shocked by it. i have been making the rounds in europe not just germany but also stockholm. the swedes who thought they had joined nato just in time are finite they join a slightly differentt nato than they thougt the joint. there's turmoil everywhere and n evans processing it everywhere. let me give you version of what i think cap in the side of germany. they always knew the conservatives are going to win this election. they hold the governing. the question was how many parties where they govern with? that was settled very late last night with the real nailbiter of accounting of votes. the extreme left party met

by-ms. entry into thehe parliamt of a 5% threshold by 13000 and something votes people not surprise you tono learn the goig to go to the course with it but demanding a recount which is unusual in germany, but there wi are. i think we are catching up with other countries. so based on thatt results unless it's overturned by the courts which i have a hard time seeing because we all use paper ballots. slightly more difficult to fake results there. is going to govern in a coalition with the first democrat. don't think he will have anyy compunction in supporting ukraine. i think he intends to be a strong player in europe. the reservations i have about that last night also saw a

doubling of the afd seats in parliament nearly a doubling with extremely high shares of eastern germany up to 35%. >> extreme right. >> no they're not neo-nazi. that is not accurate. there good friends with neo-nazi groupings but they are not by definition neo-nazi but that's an important thing to-n say. the intelligence fully extremist right-wing extremists. they have been very helpful for some french figures and one or two of their leaders and avoiding actual nazi language. forgive me. i say that because of doing this very deliberately and strategically. it's one of the things that makes it difficult for example to outright ban them which german law would allow.

which no doubt the vice president of the united states would consider it yet another suppression of free speech and democracy if that was attempted. but that is where we are. be quite constrained by the opposition headed by an extreme right wing party will be out to split his party. i think he will try to reach out to europe. he willur try to reach out to nato. but i am going to put out there that ultimately he may end up being a transitional figure and what is going to be an ever more fragmenting german political landscape and i will leave it at that. >> all right, fiona you are also at munich. give us a sense of your impressions of where the united states is right now with respect to ukraine and with respect to european interactions?

x thank you very much. i would say it's great to be here today but it's quite a depressing summit at the beginning the anniversary and commemoration especially on others itself. before we start to do this nonsense owns a fully process what ukrainians have been through. during the last three years. this is an absolute tragedy so iukrainians are some of the reasons we are here. we have to always a member the human side of this. i listened to vice president speech standing next to the former prime minister ofrm ukrae by happened to me as i went into the overflow. with people who were guarding

the prime minister of ukraine routine he was stuck standing next to me. he literally turned to me and said he thought his wound cry after hearing this speech this is a kind of man is been through quite a lot. this is a human side to all this that we must not forget. in a way i'm going to answer your question about going to flip it around a little bit. that's what has the nicest unto itself in the eyes of europeans which is really depressing to listen to you. in 1989 there was a complete shift in the cold war. i came here as u.s. citizen. i never thought i would find myself in a position as listen to europeans the uk is to be be partof europe remember back ? and also politicians talk about

exactly what starting to happen after the vice president speech becausee suddenly it's as if a switch had been flipped. i'm also standing next to a prominent member of the german green party refugees from the soviet union. it was extraordinarily well known he said he been sick to his stomach he never expected the beacon and the freedom and opportunity of when lookedon towards was suddenly lecturing europeans about free speech and also openly exciting with discussed extreme right wing party was not something in the process. now the europeans also know us is a kind of at large for this predicament.

so just after the so-called that itappeared the previous chancelr schultz realized after russia's invasion. it was sobering to see a sense of paralysis there is a response spending a lot of time in the united kingdom by home birthplace i've also been in paris coincidentally at the same time many of the european leaders showed up for an emergency meeting and scandinavia and all the countries in between. there is a real feeling mismanaged not just for the last

several years after the invasion of ukraine, but the last decade plus or president obama exhausted all of them taking their and 2% spending gdp that is 2014. that was with the ukraine and crimea. in the 10 years behind their own defense. it became obvious that basically is no longer ange option i've bn been toldthat nicely for quite e not despite vice president vance for the new secretary of defense

peg seth hughes is no longer a priority of the united states. got into a wall of attrition some of you will remember this from earlier discussions with pat at brookings and the things most people have had. the wave got to shift and attrition is the external environment has changed. not as money would help to shift of the dynamics inside of russia which has been a bit of a solid rock if not budged in terms of his world view the shift is been here in the united states. we have been living in it and in a process of constant change going back to 911 the interventions we have been all over the place. and finally the united states has changed.

and moscow the united states is come with russia and russia views. that is what has shifted the entire dynamic. that's where we are now with ukraine. the united states has shifted and europe has realized if it wants to be serious about its own security also which is essential to european security will w be the big question as we look ahead we have president micron of france already here he's not joining us i have learned. >> is welcome on the stage. we have got prime minister of the uk coming in on thursday. it's very much on the wall for everything ukraine's future is also the future of european security. the finns and the swedes also joined precisely because they realize you need to have a new look of european.

let's just remind ourselves they're all actually ready to go there probably the best equipped battle ready at all times they had the ukraine experience back in the beginning of world war ii when they were invaded also by the soviet union and they fight on their own. i think this really consequential time today or every chicken has come home to roost. >> yes, thank you. i want to pick up on something you said at the beginning. we have to not forget the personal tragedy and experience of ukrainians in this conversation. andyo so i want to ask you to tl us two stories.

the first is, what were the circumstances in which you learned about the american change in policy? you literally were on your way here to do this event and to launch this podcast when all the sudden the united states switched sides. so first of all just tell us about that experience and then secondly in the back, she may be here is your 1-year-old daughter. i want you to tell us the circumstances of her birth. >> it will be irrelevant i promise. [laughter] clicks the details may be not be important. >> the aggressiveness of it all. thank you and thank you for arranging all of this. it's amazing to have an opportunity to speak about it a

all. i don't think trump decided to flip a switch when a bunch of you getting realized who he is, i was somewhere between three trains, two planes in the four day long travel from there too here. i cannot help but think my whole life i've had an image of the u.s. is the standard of what is right, what is good i was tiny, i was 12 or 13. and since that i have conscious memory of my life, what is right and what are my values. andce since then i've always knn this is who we are as ukrainians. we align ourselves to the u.s. we look to europe for guidance this is what is right and what's

on the east is very, very wrong. we never look there. and so i always joke we don't mind american meddling in some of the more leftist leaning friends would accuse the u.s. of colonialism or something. please come and clean everything up. get rid of corruption. get involved. many people who joke about this, the alternative has always been a russia. because the auger jogger freight messed us up we are stuck in their between two sides. this whole image is a barometer of what is good and bad. it really shattered for me in the last week. i keep hearing people say there's nock going back for this damage trump is done is irreversible you explain to me later whether that is true. you know better than i do.

but that's just like really depressing. i feel like the u.s. hasn't gone and doing whatever it is doing. europe is not doing anything. as one friend of mine put it will be helpful if russia was the thing that would be helpful that's how ukrainians do it. they've had bad experiences of the u.s. over history and europe as well. we don't really feel once again own. it's not a position anyone should be in. and now we don't have a standard like institution is more of values andva liberty. we are now being accused of being in a b dictatorship whichs laughable. there's a feeling of disappointment. connected it's shattering in front of my eyes it affects so that is really depressing.

the spicier story so my daughter she is very much cooperating with this event and i am grateful for it. she was born on december 31 in 2023. thatra is already crazy enough this whole thing is crazy enough. what is even crazier the day after that russia launched one of its biggest ever aerial attacks against ukraine. so at the time we were still at the hospital he had not checked out or left home at 5:00 a.m. at some point there is a massive attack like almost 100 drones or something i may be exaggerating. it was really big that it was one of the biggest attacks in yearss and so is just incredibe we work fine, we were all taken

to this underground shelter with all these pregnantt women i was very thankful i would got her out and did not have to go through that explains in a bunker. that was helpful. i distinctly remove the feeling with me, other moms like 1-year-old babies we were not scared because we had been added and had lived there since the very beginning. we were just very annoyed. there was like a frustration like we really should not be dealing with this in any circumstance but especially right now. it was more of like when is this going to be over? cand we just go and have a life and take care of our babies? i think it is so tragic those are the emotions i can't speak for all are pretty much numb we

see gruesome this and tragedy every single day we kept feeling the strongest sense of loss at some point something in your body on a biological level with the iranian drones flying around you, youd are not going anywhere because god bless america air defense . you know you will be fine most likely. and you keep on livingju with it and people tell you it states safe you don't even know what that meansat anymore because tht is just your reality. and so the fact we've been at it for three years is insane to me i remember having a conversation withau friends in early april i

was in levine city in eastern ukraine i wanted to tell my friends to come stay with me they seriously told me they do not want to leave because they want to be there foror victor day. so my friends did not come. they have a distinct feeling there on the precipice of this historic moment.me they were ready to march in their flags and celebrate it. but now it's three years later i am sitting here we are going to talk about how our biggest ally isis turning into something of n enemy. and so that is where we are at. >> i just want to say that sounds dramatic most is understating it. i woke up that morning to a set of text from her which i think i still have. this was news is

i have a beautiful baby girl. the bad news is i'm in a bomb shelter under the hospital with a whole bunch of laboring what u think because in one point it's the hospital know and target the hospital with her like no they are russians they actually might. >> there was a maternity hospital on point. so alright, i do not mean to be glib but the good news is we got a riproaring podcast out of it. [laughter] quick sinema set this one up? correct thank you. >> you got to take lines where they present themselves. so tyler, tell us a little bit of thehe story of escalation whe they come from give us a little

bit of the institutional history of the project we are releasing today? >> yes thanks ben thanks i'm honored to appear with this panel. i think the past three weeks have been a bit of eight to say the least. this podcast started i guess three years ago you could say with the full-scale invasion. about a year in i joined l'affaire as a managing editor. the biggest story in foreign policy in the world at the time is russia invasion of ukraine. it seemed on the one hand a choice to think about how we could tell the history of u.s. and ukraine. how to explain what we are seeing. i am no russia expert i am not a ukraine expert client was surprised at the full-scale invasion.