eaern and will work on the 2025 budget rolution that incorporates republican blueprintor passing donald trump's agenda to cut taxes and increase border security and defense funding. votes are expected in the afternn. on c-span2, political hosts a form on us energy policy and the trump administration. at 8:fifteen a.m. eaern at 10:00, the senate gavels in and will vote on the nomination of daniel driol to be secretary of the army. on c-span 3 at 9:thirty a.m. eastern, deputy dhs secondary nominee troy edgar and james bishop, t nominee to be puty white house budget direct ttify at a joint confirti hearing and in the afternoon testimony from the comptroller othgovernment accountability office on federal programs deemed at high risk for mismanagement, fraud and waste, that gets underway at 1:00, you can watch these programs live on c-span now, our free mobile apps and online, c-span.org.

>> coming up a discussion on donald trump's proposal to make canada the 50 first state. for the next two hours he will hear collars from canada and the united states to support and oppose the idea with remarks on tariffs, boycotting american goods and how people's lives could change if canada became part of the us. this is hosted by the canadian broadcast corporation. >> what i like to see canada become our 50 first state. >> i'm the host of cross-country checkup in canada. >> not a snowball's chance in hell that canada will ever be the 50 first state. >> i'm jeremy hobson, host of the middle in the us. >> canada and the united states, that would really be something. you get rid of that artificially drawn line and it would be better for national security, we basically protect canada. >> live from vancouver, a cross-border conversation. >> i will make a general offer.

how about if we purchase alaska and throw in minnesota and minneapolis at the same time. it is not realistic. >> the us and canada have been longtime allies and neighbors. >> when you have donald trump begin musing and then doubling and tripling down on canada as the 50 first state, tensions pushed us to the brink of a trade war earlier this month. >> canada's prima nester, justin trudeau, told a group of business leaders on a hot mike that donald trump's 50 first state comments are not a joke but a real thing. >> last week after meeting with canadian premiers, deputy white house chief james laird cautioned them to take donald trump's comments about the 50 first state at face value. some see this as an attack on canadian sovereignty, others believe he is trolling and seeking negotiation leverage for the next round of trade talks. time to have your say. >> what do you think of trump's comments about canada becoming the 51st state.

our number is 888-416-8333, one-eight hundred 88-four hundred sixteen-eight hundred eighty three. >> as a canada as a whole, alberta would be better as a state versus a problems. >> i don't understand why trump has to keep saying the 50 first state. i'm telling you, i will never wear red, white and blue. >> on both sides of the border across canada and the united states from washington dc to los angeles, minnesota florida, we are already getting a huge volume of calls and if those of you in the united states are having a hard time getting through on the phone you can go online, cbc.ca/aircheck and leave a message and we will call you back and you can try our regular number-888-four hundred sixteen-eighty three thirty three, eight hundred

eighty eight-four hundred sixteen-eighty three thirty three. >> it is an insult to canadians to think they are so small that they would become a state of the us. >> i think we should do it to increase the economy and everything else. it will strengthen us. >> question this hour, what do you think of trump's comments about canada becoming the 50 first state. >> let me give you that online address one more time, >> why are we supporting a country 200 billion plus a year, our military is at their disposal, they should be a state. that's what i told trudeau, what would happen if we didn't do it? he said canada would dissolve, canada wouldn't be able to function. >> i'm jeremy hobson. >> on cbc radio, cbc news network. >> across america on public radio stations and c-span television. >> live cross-border conversation, co-production between cbc and the middle. >> anyone who wants to watch

live on youtube or tick-tock, before we get into this is worth noting a lot of people are angry that we are even having this conversation. they think it is an endorsement of trump's suggestion and an insult. you have been on the receiving end of a lot of this. >> we received a lot of online comments, e-mails on sensitive topics on the past but nothing like i've seen over the last 48 hours and i should point out no question the original show question we had struck a nerve. it was never our intent to normalize the idea that canada whatever become the 51st state and so when people tell us just doing this show is normalizing trump's comments and it is dangerous i should tell you we are very careful about how we do a program like this. we are not in any way endorsing what trump has been saying. many of you in canada spoke out, we listened and we changed the show question to better reflect our aim here.

the whole point of our show in the middle is to hear what those of you are listening and watching have to think, this is a place where people can speak out on issues where politicians up until now have done most of the talking. it is important for americans to hear what canadians have to say and i'm really interested in hearing what americans have to say. >> americans may not know this because we have a lot going on in the united states right now but canadians have been boycotting american products because of this, canceling travel because of tensions between the two countries. right now americans are focused on since trump took office he has said he wants to take over greenland, the panama canal, gaza, he wants mineral rights in ukraine, not to mention thousands of federal workers laid off indiscriminately or just being told they've got to tell the government 5 things they did last week and to be fired and egg prices in the united states, egg prices here are not bad.

i should bring some back with me. there is no more important relationship than that between the us and canada as we wants to hear from people on both sides of the border today and we will start this hour by saying some of what trump says ends up happening, some is bluster. let's bring in someone who may help decipher all of that for us. the national political correspondent for npr in washington dc, great to have you with us. do you think trump is being serious when he talks about canada as the 50 first state? is he trolling justin trudeau? is it a negotiating tactic? >> it is all those things. every trump troll is a trial balloon. there are so many things he says, threatens, then backs off, at the time he says that he means it seriously. i think you should take them seriously and literally. i do think even though it is hard to make predictions especially about the future

canada will not become the 51st state of the united states and although it is clearly a huge topic of conversation and consternation in canada it is not as if trump put anything in motion in the united states. there is no congressional resolution to say we are inviting canada to join us, there's no effort on the trump administration's part to get a referendum in canada scheduled on this, nothing at all. it was an epic troll managed to dominate and humiliate justin trudeau and that is why he continues to call him governor trudeau and the irony is trudeau could have turned around and said be aware of what you wish for, we have more population than california, more electoral votes than any state and we vote and a republican would never win the white house if we were the 51st state. >> if they were playing by wyoming rules they would have 60 states, one hundred 20

centers -- senators. >> that's not how it works, it's a minority institution but have a lot of house members. based on population. >> many people are taking it seriously in canada. >> it is an incredible insult. >> listen to the premier, andrew furey, spoke to the cbc after meeting at the white house and here's what he had to say. >> in the meeting at the white house, the officials confirmed he is very serious about the 51st state comment. he said it 5 or 6 times. not only doubling down but now taking a joke that was once a social post and turning it into sustained a rhetoric and a sustained attack on canada. i believe the tariff issue is conflation. i believe this president in particular has an imperialistic agenda, one of expansion and we

need to take that as canadians very seriously. we need to take that not as an economic threat but a thread on our sovereignty. on our canadian values and canadian identity. >> we think back to the first trump term and some of things he said that were pretty outlandish like a muslim band did happen or separation of children from their families when they crossed illegally did happen. >> those things are within the president's control. he controls immigration. it is a different thing to say he can waive a magic wand and create canada as the 51st state. don't forget he also floated we are going to take over gaza. we are going to own it and hold it well he has backed off from that because the arab nations said we are not participating in the forced expulsion of palestinians from their land. he does back off. look what happened when he floated in the latest tariffs, the market reacted, held them back, very little concessions. what canada and mexico did was

nothing. he often talks more than he does but the canadian politician you just played, he is imperialist, he's expansionist, he believes in manifest destiny. he has talked about even, he hasn't ruled out using military force to take over greenland or the panama canal. he hasn't said he would use a literary force to take over canada. >> you got a giggle in your voice, is this a joke or not? >> i don't think it is a joke. >> huge cost. huge cost. first of all, donald trump has been very busy dismantling the administrative state and putting a stake through the heart of nato which canada is our number one important ally in nato. he just -- so far this 51st

state idea, a trump troll, to mention it at all will diminish, booing americans at a hockey game. donald trump doesn't believe in allies. he believes we are a big powerful superpower and if you're a smaller country or in any way dependent on our largess or nuclear shield, that is not how the world works. you will see a tremendous wave of anti-american sentiment in europe and canada. i don't know what the polls -- >> what do you think of trump's comments about canada becoming the 50 first state, 888-four hundred thirty six-eighty three thirty three. >> we have a lot of things to juggle, what two different television networks, two networks of radio stations, lots of calls but we have to

take a break for the npr stations. in calgary, went to cbc.ca/aircheck, i recommend that to everybody, to know we want you to be on the phone, rob says should canada become the 51st state it would encompass largest geographical area. be the most populated, the most resource rich and potentially the most affluent state in the us with the commas are at number of seats in the house of representatives. it could exert more influence on us national policy than any other states. insured it would become a mega state the president would have to treat with respect. we are going to go to calls after the break for npr but for those just tuning in canada and the united states, the programmers a cross-border conversation, you can listen live on the cvc listen apps or listen at cbc/news.ca.

what do you think of trump's comments about canada becoming the 51st state, 888-416-8333. i am looking at the q of calls, the next caller is from victoria, british columbia. >> before we get to that call, let's look at the online reaction, kathleen responded, i respect you and to deeply value the cbc, what you're hearing, referring to the many hundreds of posts on blue sky, on threads and x, the deep and real fear and anger of canadians, the possibility of being taken over by the us is traumatizing, need to be compassionate, listen and take a trauma informed approach, change the question or cancel the program. we did change the question. saturday morning after we saw

the online comments our original feeling was the first question might have been misinterpreted by people. in terms of canceling the program we think it is important to have this conversation on both sides of the border so we are having the program and i hope you find it interesting. >> i'm jeremy hobson coming live from vancouver we want to hear from you about your thoughts about donald trump's comments that canada should be the 50 first us state, taking calls from the united states and canada at 888-416-8333-eight hundred eighty eight-four hundred sixteen-eighty three thirty three. we are going to go to our first call and that is liz moore in victoria, british columbia. welcome to the program. wants to hear from you. what do trump's comments mean to you?

>> i was born canadian in 1960 one and i always imagined i would die a canadian and i still will. in that respect i'm going to stand strong for canada. we need to look at past and present, look at germany and austria, they decided they wanted it, they took it, take a look at ukraine, they decided, russia decided they wanted it. they are attempting to take it. in my opinion we are in the same position. as canadians we have to ask ourselves what does canada mean to us? the maple leaf is on my passport, maple leaf is on my flag and it means a lot to me, it means everything to me. it is my country. >> you think trump would actually take canada by force? >> absolutely. i have no doubt in my mind. i really don't and i think canadians have to prepare for that reality.

i want to say the united states, i run a company that i have a lot of agents that are us-based agents. my company embraces us clients, this is a travesty to have to think or ponder that we may not be the allies we always have been. always been our strongest ally. in my opinion they've been our protector. they are who i look at when we face world war iii threats, thank god they are on our side, they've always got our back, this is unfathomable to me that things could flip on a dime and we could be in this reality we are no longer canada. >> you hear the emotion and we will hear a lot of that. for many people just the idea of talking about this, your

closest friend would say we are going to take you over or we want you to be the 50 first state whether you like it or not has drawn a lot of anger from many people on both sides. i bet we will hear from a lot of americans who feel the same way. >> let's hear from an american in rochester, new york, hi, paul. >> caller: thank you for taking my call. if i could jump right in, this is deeply sad to me to hear this conversation and, we've got the biggest buffoon in the world, our buffoon in chief doing his usual, like you say, his usual crawling and clowning people and just to see -- it pains me to see canadians hurt by this, reactions from everybody on both sides.

starting with the hockey game and stuff before that, now these petty we are not going to sell american liquor, not bring canadian this and that and it is so sad. i was born and raised in buffalo, which to me, the 11th promise live again buffalo being so close, i grew up in viewing distance of the peace bridge, learned to play hockey, my family stayed in crescent beach, ontario in the summers. i fell in love with canada. i'm sorry it ever had to happen to get to this point. >> do any of -- do they talk

about it? >> i haven't heard that much talk about it. i am sure if i was back in buffalo, that would be a different conversation. looking across the river, i don't hear that much about it in rochester. >> thank you very much. >> caller: you're welcome. >> before we go to our next guest. mark raymond is calling for detroit on the border with canada. what do you think of trump's comments on canada becoming the 51st state. >> i was not comfortable information to download. i have -- i am 46 years old. i have always been american,

always been fond of our canadian relatives and i mean that as us as americans and canadians very much the same in a lot of respects. we have our borders and we have our fundamentals. it is hard for me to talk about. >> do you take it seriously? do you think it is for real or a negotiating tactic of some kind? >> i think it is -- i don't think it was ever going to happen. i think it was more of a psychological thing to use against both sides but i will tell you where it rattled me was for several years in the back of my mind i always kept the idea that if i got too that

up with the way our country was that i could also possibly just move to canada. i'm an outdoorsman, i spend most of my time outdoors. i could very comfortably assimilate to canada. the threat hit directly, i am hard to excite. usually pretty calm person. >> may decide you want to move to canada. thank you for that call. interesting voice familiar to canadians and i will the claim to those of you in the united states who she is, arlene dickinson is a canadian businesswoman. ..familiar to canadians i will explain to those in the states arlene dickinson is a canadian businesswoman and investor on a program called dragon's done a canadian version of the same tv show shark tank. although dragon's den was on television first beast also ãã

a few weeks ago she was in the room during prime minister trudeau hot mike moment he described trumps 51st state threat is real thing he didn't realize the microphone was carrying it to the media we reached her toronto. hi. >> hey how are you. >> when he i think about you been talking some your colors of them talking about whwhether or not this is just a negotiating tactic you have to ask yourself, negotiating tactic for fowhat exactly? economic war can be debilitating to a nation so to me it's not about military power coming in trying to claim canada is about trying to claim our resources and geography in order to help protect the united states. real threat in terms of wanting to make sure

the power and resources go to the united states and to do that they need to harm canada and the process. also, the , second part of that people don't do these things, this is canadians or americans this is the government versus a leader and president trump who is making decisions that will impact americans and canadians equally and have a large amount of hurt on their wallets and way of life in order to gain political power >> shortly after taking office we are talking less than two months ago donald trump said he would use economic force to eliminate the artificially drawn border, his words not mine, between canada and the united states let's talk about the terrorist threat how is that a threat to canadian sovereignty?

>> if we don't control our economy if we don't control our resources and everything to do with our own economy then we end up not having sovereignty what we have control we don't have control over the power of our trade and everything that comes with it. at the end of the day we need to protect our resources we need to protect our land we need to protect the power and we have great power canadians realize that our resources are minerals are manufacturing goods are very worthwhile and very much necessary in the global scheme of things.this isn't just about what america wants is about what the world needs and canada is not holding onto that is going to protect our society. collects you know kevin o'leary was with you on dragon's den currently canadian investor in short take he was an early proponent of an economic union and also joined alberta's premier at mar-a-lago to meet with donald trump so kevin is promoting economic union between n canada and the united states he talks about a common

currency will hear from him later but i would like to give you the first word on that. do you think the economic union would lead to greater prosperity for both countries? >> no i think an economic union in this case or somebody has so much more size and girth than what we do basically mean handing over our economic future to another nation. this isn't a union a union implies you have two parties coming together on equal footing that's not the case. we have a country that if we did unite with them and shared a dollar we would be giving up everything in terms of economic capabilities and our future. >> we've got a lot of americans who are watching and listening to this program live right now what message do you have for them? >> we have for decades shared one of the largest, the largest border and training relationship in the world

that's been free trading relationship that benefited both sides. the narrative that there is a big subsidy or any kind of benefit to canadians through this is false. i would ask you to read the stats and understand what's being said i know that we value you as friends and neighbors americans are not our enemies we want to add to this in a peaceful way and negotiate as much as we can so we can have fair and equal trading relationship in the future and i hope canadians and americans can have influence on their governments to have them listen to the impact this will have on all of us collectively. >> always nice talking to you thank you very much. >> thank you. >> arlene aldickinson canadian business person and investor on the tv show dragon's den and a member on canada's advisory council. coming up we will talk ããwe

would love to hear from you i remember is 888-416-8333. >> to backup what arlene was saying if you look at the numbers of the trade cross-border especially when you look at something like cars, automobiles, it's almost equal importance to exports between the two countries and a lot of cars a lot of the parts are made on one side sold on the other but the benefit in many areas of the economy is pretty cool let's get back to the phones rain garden calling from vancouver where we are broadcasting from, welcome and go ahead with your thoughts. >> thank you for the opportunity to be on the show i personally think it's highly concerning reprehensible trump would dare to suggest this let alone continue to grow the

notion. beyond that disconcerting that practically no one else is coming to stand up for us. one of the truly special unique aspects of canada as we are part of the commonwealth which is like a group with shared values. what i really want to see is care center make a move this would be highly significant because when all that's happened in recent years it seems surprisingly mr. starmer is someone who trump has a level of respect for and i'm really curious as to what the threshold is for other leaders to strongly come out in support of canada. having learned from world war ii about the dangers of an action and the dangers of appeasement. >> you think the british prime minister coming in would make a difference here with donald trump? >> i generally think it would because he's another really strong global leader and a leader who trump seems to actually care about the opinion

of trump is going to negotiate with him about tariffs much faster than he was with trudeau and much more willing to make concessions with the uk he almost seems to have a little of respect. for someone to have that attention from trump to say something i think could have positive impact. >> your high school student? >> yes i am. >> i think we have the permission of your parent to be on your 17 years old but i'm really curious about iraq's other colors i will ask you, in high school in vancouver is trump in particular the 51st state comments a threat the part depending on your perspective is that tsomething you and your friends talk about? >> absolutely i even have friends in the united states were talking to me about this saying that they are getting annoyed about this but vancouver my friends and i just every time we see another news story we roll our eyes and say,

you've got to be kidding me isn't he taking this far enough. >> thank you it's interesting to talk about the new stories because i will tell you on the same side of the border this is not one of our top five things right now we are talking about because there are so many other things since trump came in let's get one more call before us short break before you ãã margaret, what do you think you take this seriously? >> more than 50% of us in the united states are being held hostage at this point this is will everyday something else that as. [inaudible] we don't agree with "on our behalf" he does not represent me he does not represent most of the people i know.

so when he says things like this i would say do take him serious. >> and margaret, your line is breaking up a little bit but i want to ask you one quick follow-up if you were to talk to if you were to look across the lake and your canadian friends on the other side here you would be your one message to them right now? >> it may be bad to be our neighbor right now but imagine. [inaudible] >> imagine being a u.s. citizen. [laughter] >> sort of like when someone else crazy uncle you don't want to be around him but you feel bad for the relatives. >> margaret, thank you for that call. interesting to hear that so far we are hearing a common theme on both sides of the border.

>> she talks about in her words the crazy uncle metaphor, when i was talking to a host on c-span in the united states earlier than being broadcast on c-span right now i use the analogy of thanksgiving whether october thanksgiving in canada or november in the united states but you have this family gathering and then somebody says something that crosses a line you wonder are you ever to be able to walk that back. i wonder if some of the rhetoric happening will get us to a point it will be very difficult to walk things back. >> we are already seeing and sporting events that was the big hockey game that canada won, congratulations. i also saw one in philadelphia where the american national anthem was booed even the americans were chairing the canadian national anthem probably just of we are sorry this is happening. if you're just tuning and we are live from vancouver you're listening to cross-border

conversation across canada on cbc news network and across the united states. you can reach us t canada

remains part of the british commonwealth and must be respected. d. >> cross-border conversation from cdc cross-border checkup. >> many of canadian's might and caught by surprise when trump started referring to canada as the 51st state of those been watching, the way he speaks about canada is just one piece of his foreign-policy perspective. david, welcome. >> thank you so much.

>> what do you think of trump's comments about canada becoming the 51st state. >> they are intended to provoke, that's what so many of his comments are intended to do. let's take him seriously for a moment. the story of the modern world, i'm speaking to you from austria. democratic societies to cooperate across borders retaining their own sovereignty and cooperating in all kinds of creative ways everything. [inaudible] >> david, i'm going to jump in i'm sorry to do this but we ar having some problems with our internet connection and i would like us to take another shot at disconnecting from you and reconnecting and hopefully we can get a better connection rather athan have the audio problems.let's take a little bit of a break while we do that

and, jeremy, when you take another call. >> let's go to a caller who is bill in burton british columbia. welcome and what do you make of the 51st state comments from trump? >> not very much of it. you both for having me on. i think it's great, kudos to both of you. i think the conversation should be had. burton got sunk about four years ago under the ohio down, i'm from vernon columbia. i do think it is a mistake but reasons that haven't brought brent up until now is that if we share a long thdistinguished history with america, maybe not that distinguished, taking into consideration some of our first nations people but the american

experience in most of america has been very much different than the canadian one. we have different values that drive us. the americans seem to have life liberty and the pursuit of happiness we have peace order and good government. there forming together the nation of the east extended from coast-to-coast and consequently, ethically where whole lot more differently might look hethe same but we ar a lot different. we have a single-payer healthcare system. most of us would never give up on. by the way, i'm not pro-business when it comes to firearms but i have to let you know that we don't have near the intensity of firearms or other types of violence that

exist in the states. in short, we are very much different. is that a bad point? not at all in the least we are capable with different perspectives of forming alliance with the mexican brethren and sister and to do great things for the world. >> there are nkdifferent cultures, think of all, i think it's a we say sorry you say sorry it's like tomato tomato. >> do say sorry as much as we do. >> probably not. >> let's try david frum again, i know you stayed up really late to take part in the program i have my figures crossed our internet connection is a little bit better than it was a moment ago and let me react to the first question from before because the audio wasn't so good when you make of trump's comments about canada

becoming the first day. >> i hope i more audible, the story of the post-world war i since 1945 has been democratic countries have discovered ways to cooperate more intimately everything from law enforcement environmental protection and national security. in the democratic world had more than ever and more cooperation than ever so they are meant to ovtroll and offend also primitive. false. before he became president the level of preparation it was so intimate and so many ways what is the problem he is trying to solve and if he thinks by lexa canada accessory forces s are free if still a capitalist economy. you want nickel from canada, still has to be paid for, and

not just, steal it you wouldn't steal it from america. one last thing, if trump did annex canada and say now your 51st state to trade freely if the tariffs are bad idea how the tariffs become a good idea when canada is not. >> what donald trump is saying he's done an unwitting job of uniting canadian political leaders left right and centrist. the polls show the vast majority of canadians don't like the notion i don't like to talk about it even in the united states: from angus read suggested isn't popular they are either. you know little bit about the political world is a former speechwriter for president george west bush given the lack of popularity, given the lack of traction in canada, why does trump keep repeating these

words? >> because of this is not just about canada. one of his serious priorities in the second presidency is to break up the american alliance everywhere. he started a trade war with columbia ããhis vision is of an america isolated. he imagines that will make america more powerful contract that will make it one week. every term he serves the interest of democracy enemies. [inaudible] donald trump seems to think it's his job to the system and the only winners are the world's dictatorships especially russia and china. >>. >> as a student and observer and veteran of politics, when you think canada should do as

trump keeps using this rhetoric over and over and over. >> what canada should do and has to do are very different. canadas preparing methods of retaliation but this is how relationships go bad. the moment you start thinking, how do i pay this back how do i hurt you as much as you hurt me relationship as having to break up altogether. what we need is an intervention where somebody needs to say you need to stop how you hurt each other. remember why you need to help each other. who does that? i hope it will be the american elective. saying knock it off. >> david, always nice having you on the program i appreciate you staying up so late in vienna, thank you so much for joining us.

staff writer for the atlantic. our question today on cross-country checkup in the middle on canadian and american radio and television what do you think of trump's threats about canada becoming hathe 51s state, call us at 1-888-416-8333. >> by the way, if you are an american who believes this is a good idea, we are open to your comments as well. if you're a canadian who thinks you want to be part of the united states that would be an interesting perspective to hear as well we are open to all on this program at 1-888-416-8333. linda boudreau is with us from new orleans louisiana. go ahead with your thoughts about trump's comments. >> every time i hear on the canada out trump wanting to be a stay i laugh. i just spontaneously laugh. the reason is, when trump ran

in 2016 i was hesitant to vote for him i didn't know how he would handle international politics and a local business owner convinced me that it was probably better to vote for him that a third party candidate, which i've done twice in elections because i didn't like the republican candidate. because he would get constitutional judges on the supreme court. so i voted for him. after that i get up every day see what trump did today put on the news he would say some outrageous things sometimes insulting people and i would kind of cringe like why does he have to do that but i liked everything he implemented, policy, then the thing happen with 㦠>> a reminder you can watch all of our programs at c-span.org. as we take you live to a bipartisan discussion on climate change, the power grid and u.s. energy policy in the

trump