minutes on c-span point of interest. client held the secret service agent assigned to protect former first lady jacqueline kennedy has died at the age of 93. in 2,012 he appeared on c-span q&a program to talk about his

historical narrative describing when president kennedy was killed an effect on his own like his own boyhood growing up as adopted child in north dakota he worked for five presidents after mrs. kennedy was assigned to president johnson in 1,967 he became special agent in charge of presidential connection to he was promoted to the division of assistant director of the secret service. responsible for all protective forces he retired in 1,975. this week on q&a former united states secret service agent clint hill discusses his latest book titled mrs. kennedy and

me. >> clint hill author of mrs. kennedy enemy, what would be the difference if you were a circuit secret service agent today and mrs. kennedy that he knew that would come along how we do things different? >>. >> back in those days only two of us assigned today there are more than two. i don't know exactly with the number that's really beneficial. today you have female agents. we didn't have that luxury back in 1,961 6,253. so that made a big deal of difference. ..

>> to me and to others and on one occasion he did something that i was very upset about. i'd arranged for mrs. kennedy to arrive in washington d.c. at national airport on a military flight, which was very unusual for her, but to do so privately, a separate section in the airport, a national airport. we'd arranged for the white house cars to be situated outside the fence awaiting our arrival. when we got the amend stopped, propellers stopped, ready to get mrs. kennedy off, they opened the gates to bring the cars in. as i walked down the ramps, not only the cars coming in, there was a motorcycle coming in,

unknown to me or unscheduled. two people on the motorcycle and one in the back had a camera and he was shooting away and it was roddy, and he had penetrated the security. so i ran and i grabbed him and i took his camera and i took all of his film. and we went to the white house. owe was very upset. i had to turn him over to the police because of his activities. they didn't arrest him, but they held him for a while. when i got to the white house, the first thing that happened i got word the president wanted to see me. so i went into the oval office and there was the president and he had pierre sellinger with him. they said what happened out at national airport. so i explained the situation to him and the president looked at me and said, unfortunately, you're going to be the scapegoat in this situationment we can't afford to have the

press anger at us for what happened at the national airport so you're going to get the blame. and we're going to return the film to the company that roddy is working for. so, i gave him the film and they gave it to the appropriate company and i answered to my supervisors and explained that i was just doing the best i could to try and maintain her privacy. they understood. the president understood, also, he said unfortunately i was going to have to take the blame for it. >> you didn't use a word in your book about roddy's former photographer, did you accuse him of being obnoxious? >> he was very obnoxious, one of the more obnoxious people that i dealt with. i've heard that same story from other people and even other members of the press. roddy mims was, in fact, obnoxious. >> there's a story in your book about frank sinatra and taking

a phone call. >> i used to take a number of phone calls from mr. sinatra, he would call regularly. 1961 after ambassador kennedy had a stroke and he wanted to talk to mrs. kennedy, jacqueline kennedy, and i had informed and been instructed to inform the operator when he called they were to channel those calls through me and so i talked to him and i explained to him that, what was going on. we were in palm beach at the time and we talked for 10, 15 minutes about various things and that was kind of a common occurrence whenever he'd call. i ended up talking to him. >> why didn't mrs. kennedy take the call. >> she just didn't find it necessary to talk to him all the time. she informed me when she gets around to it, she'd call him and say hello and visit with him for a while. i don't know that she ever did. perhaps so, i'm not sure. >> your book has been on the

best seller list and you've been on the book tour. how many different cities have you been to? >> well, let's see, new york twice, kansas city, san diego, la jolla, dallas, houston, chicago, and washington d.c. and we still have more to go. >> what have you found the public to be interested in when they've been questioning you? >> they're just interested in the fact that this is a book that paints a portrait of mrs. kennedy, tells about her life. what she was really like during that four years that i was with her. there isn't any gossip in there. no salacious information, it's just what happened, what she was like, things she liked to do and how humorous she was at times and how athletic she was at time and how intelligent she was and how kind of rambunctious she was and tried to put me to the test many, many times and i did my best to meet that testments i wrote down a quote, whatever you do

in greece, do not let mrs. kennedy cross paths with aristotle onassis, who said that? >> president kennedy gave me those instructions in 1961 when mrs. kennedy went to greece the first time she went there alone. she went with her-- alone, had her sister lee with her. she went there and she wanted to see the open air theater, on a yacht named the north wind, i believe it was, and the instructions from the president before-- i did my advance for the trip, was not to let mrs. kennedy cross paths with aristotle onassis and he gave me those instructions in the presence of his brother the attorney general. when i went back to the office i tried to research why. i didn't know exactly why and i found out that onassis was in legal trouble with the united

states government and it appeared to me that the reason was for them not wanting the two to cross paths, it was going to be a political embarrassment for the president and for the party if she was seen in the company of aristotle onassis. >> how much did she spend around him? >> never saw him. >> in 1961. >> in 1961. never saw him in 1961. she had met him with the president at one time previous in an island off the coast in the mediterranean because his yacht was in the harbor. they were there. winston churchill was on board the yacht and then senator kennedy wanted to meet winston churchill and arranged through mutual friends to go on board and meet winston churchill. she had met him. she didn't see him in 1961. she did see him in 1963.

>> 325-foot yacht named christina. >> very nice, very nice yacht. >> how much time did you spend on it. >> i was there from the time mrs. kennedy got on until she got off, it was about 10 days, i believe, almost. >> and why was she there? >> in august of 1963 she gave birth to a little boy, patrick bouvier kennedy, in massachusetts. two days later young patrick died and mrs. kennedy became very depressed and her sister lee flew in from london to be with her. lee and her husband, radzwill happened to be friends with onassis. and onassis made the yacht available if they wanted to use it for mrs. kennedy's use. they decided it would be a good idea for her to be away for a while and that yacht would make an excellent platform to tour

the area and get away from everything. and president kennedy wanted her to do it. members of the staff were very concerned about her doing this because they-- because the political year coming up 1964, they were concerned how it would look, but the president insisted that she be permitted to do it so we went aboard, toured the greek islands, went up into turkey, came back out and it was a very, very pleasant cruise. >> in your opinion, why did she end up marrying him? >> i believe -- it was after robert kennedy was killed. she was very distraught about that. she was very concerned about the security of the children and herself, even though she had secret service protection at the time up until she remarried, she was still concerned and he offered something that nobody else could offer. he owned a private island, that's where they lived. he had a private yacht. he had an airline. he had a great big apartment

and things in paris, he had one in new york. he could offer her everything that she needed to guarantee her privacy and safety. >> how many presidents have you worked for? >> five, eisenhower, kennedy, johnson, nixon and ford. >> when you think back to dwight eisenhower, i haven't seen you talk much about, how old were you? >> when i first was assigned to eisenhower, i was 27 and, oh, he was a retired four-star general, he was five-star. and he was held in highest regard by everybody worldwide and for a young kid from north dakota, which is where i came from, to be in the presence of the president was really special and he was a remarkable man. he was quite personable and so was mrs. eisenhower. he didn't call us by name. he just referred to us as hey,

agent, whenever he wanted us to do something or wanted to address us, but we respected him immensely. he was a great man to be around and he loved to play golf as everybody knows. we spent a lot of time on the golf course and-- but we traveled a lot, too, traveled all through europe, southeast asia and then down into the philippines and taipei and korea. we had a, just an enormous experience. >> you mentioned north dakota. what impact did it have on your life that you were adopted? >> it really didn't affect me too much. when i was told i was about five or six years old. a little girl across the street told me that, she was teasing me i was adopted. i didn't know what it meant. so i went home to my mother, what was this adopted thing, what was that. >> so she was very concerned about the fact that i'd found out. she was afraid i wouldn't have the same kind of relationship that she and my adoptive father

knowing that i really was somebody else's child. but i also had a sister who was adopted we weren't biological, she had been adopted before me and we formed a bond. we would never raise the issue with my mother because she was so concerned and we never did until after she died in 1974. >> jack kennedy, the president, called you clint according to your book. >> yes. >> any other presidents call you hey, agent? . only eisenhower. >> president johnson called me clint. >> did you ever swear at you? >> in my presence, yes. at me, i don't think so. >> i've got some audiotape, you've probably heard this, of mrs. kennedy and lyndon johnson talking after the assassination near the christmas time in december of 1963. >> i hope that you are doing all right. >> oh, i'm doing fine, thank

you. >> well, this congress is getting pretty rough up here and i may have to send for you before it gets through. >> i hope you get home for christmas, will you? >> i don't know. >> it's so nice for you to call me, mr. president, you must be out of your mind with work piled up. i have a few things to do, but not anything that i enjoy more than i'm doing now. >> you're nice. >> how is my little girl? >> she's fine, and john just set off-- the noise you hear in the background. [laughter] >> tell him hello, and i wish all of you a merry christmas and i wish i could do something to make it happier for you. >> oh, no, you've done everything you could. >> you know how much we love you. >> well, you're awfully nice. you don't know? [laughter] >> no, i don't -- yes, i. >> you better know.

>> all 180 million love you, dear. >> oh, thanks, mr. president. >> and all the world and i'll see you after christmas, i hope. if you ever come back here again don't come to see me, why, there's going to be trouble. >> all right. >> you don't realize i have the fbi at my disposal do you? >> i promise i will. >> i'm going to send for you if you don't come back. >> good. >> some day they're going to clear the traffic jam out there in georgetown. >> all right, well-- >> you have a good christmas, dear. >> thank you, the same to you. >> good night. good night. >> you spent a year with her after the assassination and i think i read you said she never wanted to look at that white house again. >> that was-- she had a difficult time, very emotional for her. we left on december 6th. she moved out, moved to georgetown and from that point on, she just did not want to go by the white house. >> and she went back with richard nixon. i can't give you the year, but

i think it was when her portrait was unveiled. >> i believe in 1971. you were 28, she was 31. >> correct. >> when you first met her. what are we hearing in this audiotape, is it accurate about either one of their personalities? >> oh, i think it accurate for both of them, sure. you know, that voice of hers is-- you know, it's unmistakable, that's her, that's the way she talked, that's the way she acted and that's also president johnson. that was all sweetness and light when he wanted to be, a lot different when he didn't want to be. but that was him, that's the way he was. >> who named this book, mrs. kennedy and me? >> it was kind of a joint effort, but mostly lisa had come up with the idea. >> who is lisa mccubben. >> she should get credit for writing the book, a fantastic writer. should talk to her sometime.

>> we had you here several months ago, the other book with gerald blain. when did you decide to do this book? >> during the process of that. i only contributed to look forward. but lisa also wrote that book. he took-- she took the information that jerry blain had put together and then worked on that and went to great lengths to obtain information from the former agents in contact and she put that together. it was in that process that she asked for my help because i was in dallas and jerry blain, who wanted to write that book, was not. and so they needed to talk to someone who had been there. and i got to know lisa and trusted her, had confidence in her and in the process she convinced me that the information i had about mrs. kennedy was really historical and should be documented.

and over a period of time she convinced me that's what i should do. and some former white house reporters came to me and said, you know, we covered the president and mrs. kennedy. we were never permitted to interview her. we never really knew her, you did. you owe it to the american people and the public to document that and put it down on paper. so after a while i thought, well, i might just well do it, i'm not getting any younger, so i decided to go ahead and do it. when was this book actually finished, the writing? >> well, we had a deadline of september 1st, which we didn't make, and we finished it on, i believe it was november 1st of 2011. >> since you were last here the eight and a half hours of conversations between ar they are schlesinger and mrs. kennedy have been released. here is a small excerpt. this sounds like a different

voice here a little bit, what she was saying. >> it was so funny because jack thinking of being vice-president and how awful it would be gave some things to do, but he never did them and i mean, he could have made his council on human rights or whatever it was, into something or gone ahead with it, equal opportunity, he could have done more with the space. he just never wanted to make any decisions or do anything that would put him in any position. so what he really liked to do was going on the trips and would never say-- you could never get an opinion out of them at a national security meeting, he would say he would agree with everyone, just really quiet. >> were you there? >> i was in the house.

i talked to arthur schlesinger before he went into the room to interview her on each occasion and after he came out, but i was not in the room in the interview. >> recorded in june. and robert carroll, the distance between the kennedys and the johnsons and the difficulties that mr. johnson supposedly had when he tried to come into the presidency after the assassination. what did you see there? did you see any of this? >> well, there was certainly had a difference between the two and over a period of time i saw it, in fact, it affected me in 1964 when he was transferred from mrs. kennedy back to the white house detail which president johnson was president. one of the first things we went to the lbj ranch for thanksgiving. he spotted me when i was going from one to the other and he put the word out to rupert youngblood and put the word out

he didn't want me around. that i had been with the kennedys and he didn't think that i should be there. they told me about it and youngblood went and talked to president johnson and convinced him that i was there as a professional and wasn't there as political and he finally agreed to allow me to stay. >> when did you end up heading up his detail? >> two years later. >> how did that go? >> well, it was just one of those things where he -- there was going to be a change at the very top and they had their choice between myself and another gentleman, and apparently they talked to the president and i was selected for the job. >> what did you do with gerald ford? >> i was the assistant director at that time. >> you weren't on his detail. >> i wasn't on his detail. i was responsible for the men that were there. >> how about richard nixon? >> same with him. i was-- during his office i was promoted to assistant director. what have you found that people expected from you in this book? you say no gossip, none of

that. have people seeing the picture on the cover, oh, it implies that these two are very, very close, closer than agent to perspectivee. >> we were close, very close friends, protectee. they professional, but close and i saw a lot of her secrets and she new mine. you're accurate saying we were close. what i want people to get from the book is a better understanding who she was and what she was like during the four-year period. there have been a lot of books written and most of it has been written by people who have talked to friend of friends of friends and they really don't have the information themselves, i happened to be there, i knew her. we had a direct relationship and so, i finally decided it was time to put on paper and let people know what she was like. >> did she ever get mad at you, and if so, why?

>> i think she got upset certain things that either happened, but she wasn't the kind that really got mad. i'm trying to remember anything that really upset her. when she was thrown from a horse, and she came off of a horse because of the activities of a photographer, she was mad, but not at me. she was mad at the photographer. i tried to get the film from him and couldn't get it. >> who was the photographer and i remember reading, what were the circumstances? >> his name was marshall hawkins and happened out-- i think it was the orange county hunt and i was surveilling her by vehicle. we didn't ride with her on horses because the service thought it was too dangerous, too expensive, and so, we is your veiled her from a vehicle. and i noticed there was somebody down in the bushes near one of the fences that

they were going to have to jump and before i could do anything, he stood up, mrs. kennedy and the horse approached the fence. the horse saw the photographer and just put its front hooves into the ground, mrs. kennedy went right over the head of the horse. luckily, over the fence with her hands and arms extended and did a roll, got right back up and got back on the horse and wasn't hurt, but i was mad myself. i chased the photographer and finally got him and, but i didn't get the film. >> so you were between 28 and like 32 and she was between 31 and 34, 35. >> that's right. >> when you knew her the most. >> that's right, we were almost the same age and when i was there in 1960, when i started with her, right after the election, caroline was then three years of age. i at that time had a young boy who was four years of age so we had that one child that was similar in age, and then john was born in 1960 and i had

another boy in 1961, so we had children almost the same age. >> i went back and researched the years that the children were born, caroline in 1957, a miscarriage in '55, still born child in '56. were you there for that. >> no. >> you wouldn't have been. >> and john, jr. in '60s and you mentioned patrick bouvier kennedy in 1963. what was it like for you to be around her when the children were born and was the president there? >> when john was born in november 1960, no, the president was not there because he had come back to georgetown to be with mrs. kennedy and caroline for thanksgiving. but he left that evening and flew back to palm beach, he was setting up his cabinet and everything, and when he left that evening to go to palm beach, i found that mrs. kennedy was going to go to bed for the night so i went to my home. a couple hours later i had a

phone call, she had been taken by ambulance to georgetown hospital. so i rushed over there and john was born. the president was on his way to florida at the time. we couldn't get in touch with him until he got on the ground in florida. at that time we were noting him what was going on, and he got on the press plane accompanying him because it was faster and he turned around and flew back and came early in the morning to the hospital to see mrs. kennedy and the new baby. >> how did you remember all of this? >> it's just embedded in my mind. >> did you keep notes? >> i did, but i destroyed them a few years ago which really made it more difficult. why did you destroy them? >> i promised that i would never write a book. i that i would not contribute to a book, never talk to anybody about it. and so, just to kind of make sure i would never get myself involved, i burned everything. there are a few momentos i kept, but for the most part. i burned all of my notes and

now when -- the opportunity presented itself and i decided to do it, i had to go back and talk to other agents, who i worked with, who did have, still have their notes and to check everything through newspaper archives for dates and times and places to make sure i was accurate and so it was very tedious, and write the book. >> and do you remember the year you burned your notes? >> 2012 -- it was after the-- maybe 2005, something like that. >> so what changed your mind that you wanted to -- i mean, what really changed your mind that you want today write a book? . well, really, what lisa said, that this was historical and what the white house reporters, former reporters told me and also the fact that i had read a

number of books written about mrs. kennedy and for the most part a lot of the information in there is not very true. and i thought it was time that somebody brought out the truth, what she was really like, what kind of a person she was and that was one of the big reasons i wrote it. >> you say that she lived in seven different houses when you were guarding her? >> well, let's see. seven, cape cod, palm beach, two in palm beach, well, two in cape cod, that's four. she spent a lot of time up in newport. that's five. middleberg is six and another house at middleberg is seven. camp david, the white house, 3307n street in georgetown, the hammond house in georgetown, a lot more than seven. >> why did she need all of those different places? >> well, they left 3307 street

in georgetown to go to the white house and then they sold it. after the assassination and she had to leave the white house, she didn't have a place to go. ambassador hariman offered his house for she and the children to live in and they moved there and the harryman's moved to a hotel. then the house across the street became available and so she brought that house. then over the course of time, the local bus company owner decided this would be a great tourist attraction and he started running tourists buses by there and we couldn't stop it. we tried. he refused to stop. and so she finally decided it's time to move from the area and she decided to move back to new york city. and so we went to new york and she found a place at 1045th avenue so that was another residence i forgot to mention. on the cape, they owned a house

within the kennedy compound, but it got very congested there because of the business of the president. i mean, with all the press and everything else, so the first year they stayed in their own home, but realizing how busy it was, they had a place on squaw island the next few years, in fact, two different places one was morton downey's house, the other house it was another house. the same in palm beach, they originally stayed with ambassador kennedy in his house, but just got to be too much for everybody, and so they were -- had a friend who had a home and they leased the house with michael paul in palm beach. in middleberg, they leased a place, 400 acre place called glenora, she, the owner of glenora finally terminated the lease and they built a house,

called wexford. that was another house she lived in. >> what kind of trouble did that cause for you? >> well, it meant that every place there was a residence we had to reestablish security and to set up new communications that would-- white house communications agency had to do that. that caused problems. when she built the house in middleberg called wexford, we built in that house some security devices. well then they decided to rent the house for the first summer. that created a problem. but eventually she did move into the house and lived there an authority period of time. >> you found our self out in middleberg, in cape cod just with her and your other protection group, but she would-- the president wouldn't be there. how often were these two apart? it seems lie like i read a lot. >> and they were separated a

lot because of his business and travelling and she want today spend a lot of time away from the white house and she did. spent a lot of time in middleberg. we'd go out there usually on friday and stay until at least monday, sometimes until at least tuesday. the president would come out saturday. sometimes friday, but saturday and return to washington on sunday. >> what did you think of their relationship. >> from what i saw firsthand, i was there, they were very loving couple. had a great deal of respect for each other, depended each other and supported each other. i saw saw nothing other than a very loving husband and wife and very devoted parents to two children. i'm sure you've seen this and i've got to ask you about this, nothing in the book. here is an interview with meredith viera.

>> most mornings i get up i don't want to write this book, i want to hide under the covers. >> what made you come out from under the cover. >> when you keep secret and silent about something you do it because you think you're keeping you you safe, but it's deadly. >> the secret claims alfred, 1962 the debutante from a prominent family began an affair. >> and a biographer wrote that a tall, slender beautiful intern was rumored to be among the president's paramours. and she declined details, issued a short statement and then disappeared. now she is talking and says that her first close encounter with the president took place in this indoor heated pool in the white house. the invitation came from the president's aide, dave powers.

>> had you heard this before she published her book? >> no, not really, no. >> did you read the book? >> part of it. >> what did you think? >> i questioned how she could get up in the morning and look herself in the mirror. >> why do you think she wrote it? >> money. >> i mean, i quoted in your book that they had a close, loving relationship, basically what you just said here, but when you read this book, she went all over the country to be with him and they're even-- you know, right in the middle of the cuban missile crisis she was supposedly in the white house, and you never saw any evidence of this? >> i never saw her, never met her, never knew about her, never knew of her. i was with mrs. kennedy and we were gone a lot. this allegedly happened in the '62 area. in '62 we were in, let's see -- we were in pakistan and india,

i was there for about six weeks in the summer we were either in cape cod or in italy. so we weren't at the white house a great deal of the time, but i never knew this person, never saw her. >> your book is without any controversy in here whatsoever and i wonder, you were upset i know the last time we talked, oliver stone's movie and gerald blain was. what should we believe and what matters? >> i'm just telling it like it is showing you what she was like. i have no reason to do otherwise. so people want to believe what they want to believe. nothing i can do about that, but this is mrs. kennedy as i knew her. this is our relationship, how it existed from 1960 to 1964 and beyond. and there's just no reason to

put anything in there that's not true. >> if you go on amazon.com there are 50-some reviews, at least when we're recording this about your book and about 52 of them are five-star positive. have you read any of them? >> a few, but not very many. i'm not too great with the computer yet, but i'm learning. >> the reason why i mentioned, i want to read one to you. and it's full of nothing, but praise about your book and then it says, i learned more than a few fascinating insights from this book. one, jackie was more of an athlete than i thought. it wasn't just ethel and the other kennedys who were the athletic gals. two, she was incredibly self-centered. stop there for a moment, was she? >> somewhat i would guess, but not completely, not overwhelmingly, no. >> and then three, i have a tad more empathy for president kennedy and his hound dog ways. jackie was missing in action a

heck of the lot of the time. >> well, we were gone a lot, but it was -- and i just don't -- i don't know what was transpiring while we were gone so i really can't comment about anything that's been alleged about him. >> now, this is about you. if mr. hill had opened up his personal life as he is telling the story, i think this could have been a much more powerful book. anyone know how the hill kid turned out. did clint's wife divorce him? if not, she should get a medal. >> well, my wife and i are not together, and have not been for some time. >> she's still alive. >> yes. >> i have two sons bought in the virginia area, they're both employed and they have children so they're happy. >> do you have any regrets? that's what they're getting at that you were away 80% of the time. >> sure, because my sons grew up without me and for all intents and purposes they never

really knew me. we're closer now than we were then because of that fact. i have that regret. it put a big strain on my marriage, no question about it, but just, it was my job, something i really enjoyed and wanted to do and did. >> you say you left the service, secret service when you were 43 years old. >> yes. >> now if i gather right, you're close to 80. >> i am 80. well, that's on the calendar i'm 80. >> but not on the calendar, you're what 60? >> 52. >> 52. you had the bad period there. when was the bad period when you talk about living in the basement and drinking? >> '76 to '82. about six months after i retired and then until a doctor finally told me that either quit what i was doing or die. >> and what was like-- what were your days like? >> oh, i just get up in the morning and drink. i didn't do anything.

friends would come and see me. i wouldn't even respond to them. i recall two of them coming, i was down the basement on the couch. i never even got up. i just, i didn't want anything to do with anybody and didn't have anything to do with anybody. finally, i started to snap out of it when the doctor convinced me that, you know, i had to change. i went cold turkey. it wasn't easy. almost wore out the shirt pockets trying to get at the cigarettes that weren't there anymore, but over a period of time i just got better until 1990, i was good enough, i went back to dallas and that helped a lot. >> and what did the doctor tell you that got you out of it in '81? >> he told me i was either going to die-- i was going to die if i kept doing what i was doing because i was damaging every part of my body that i could damage and that apparently scared me enough to make the change so i

did. >> in the book though you also talk about pain. can you describe the pain you're talking about all through? >> it's emotional pain and some agents that i worked with, still are going through that pain and they will not even talk about the assassination. i was reminded every day about what had happened, some way or another, whether it was a news article, a tv show, a song, or anything else. there was something there that reminded me and it really pained me because i had failed. nobody wants to be a failure, but i had failed in attempting -- in trying to protect the president and i knew that, and it just killed me. >> well, the day we're talking in may, here is your picture in the paper today in "the washington post"ments i know that and it's always there. it's a reminder and i'm

reminded all the time, but now because of my contributing to the kennedy detail book and now writing this book myself, have been able to emotionally kind of climb the ladder, thanks to lisa, who helped me get out of that dungeon. if not i'd probably still be there. >> what's your reaction to this post piece and looking at the secret service and problems that came from colombia? what's your reaction to that? >> i was shocked when i heard about it. i'm very glad that the director took immediate action and without, prior to the time anybody knew about it, they knew about it and they-- he took immediate action before any press, inquiries or anything else, he took action, but i really am saddened to know that the entire agency has been painted with the same brush and so that everybody has that sense that they don't trust them anymore, probably.

and yet, i know they continue to workday in and day out, right in the midst of all this and they take the president in the middle of the night to afghanistan and a successful trip there and back. that's what they do, they shouldn't be blamed for something that nine or whatever the number is, other people did, which was really wrong. it was irresponsible, extremely poor judgment, stupid is a better word for it all, and that's what they were. >> who is james raleigh? >> he was the director from 1961 until 1973. >> of the secret service. >> of the secret service. i don't know if you've ever heard this tape or not, here is lyndon johnson and jim raleigh talking on the phone. >> don't make any requests in my name unless i approve of it. >> yes, sir. >> i think it's outrageous.

another things here, your secret service car is behind me every trip, and going to kill more people, all you do is run over little children, you ran over a man's foot. and i am a writing and apologizing and some of their guns will go off and cause danger, stay a little behind me so they don't run over the people that try and shake hands with me. >> yes, sir. >> i'm writing this fella in georgia, his name is charles b. wheeler assistant chief of police, secret service car ran over him at college park, broke his foot. it's now in a cast. >> all right, sir. >> that's what i've been telling them about. they like to stay within fun foot of me. i don't know why, if they stayed 30 yards behind. and if i stop in a hurry they're likely to hit my bumper and break my neck and walter

being i think, told you about the-- >> you did, is i remember. >> 26 mercury automobiles, according to ford motor company, and they think it's outrageous and republicans are going to be writing story on them. you've had them at fredericksburg for months and we couldn't use them if we're down there. >> i see, yes, sir. >> and you might need one or two when we go and pick them up in auction, but i sure wouldn't have ford station 26 there, i have haven't been home since before easter. >> yes, sir. >> what are you hearing? >> and mr. raleigh talked to him by phone and he he'd talked to me in the same way, and poke me in the chest at the same time because i was two feet from him. it was painful and that's lyndon johnson and that's the way he treated myself and everybody else. but i understood. he was just venting. that's what he would do is vent and then be fine, he'd get it

off his chest. >> i'm also looking at that -- at an obituary on this day, of the former dallas medical examiner, a fella by the name of earl rose who examined everybody at the assassination, around it, jd tippett, the police officer, lee harvey oswald, jack ruby and all the people involved in this day, but the secret service didn't allow him to do an autopsy on president kennedy, why? >> because it was going to take too long. we wanted-- first of all, vice-president johnson was in dallas as well and we wanted him to leave. he would not leave until mrs. kennedy was ready to go. mrs. kennedy wouldn't leave without the president's body. so we wanted to get the president's body back to washington. we thought since he's president of all the people, the autopsy should be done in washington at one of the military facilities,

either walter reed or bethesda. so they said in dallas, the medical examiner, dr. rose and others, that the law said that they had to do the autopsy there in dallas since the homicide had occurred in dallas. we understood the law and a judge came in and even told us, this was the law, nothing to do about it. we finally just said, well, we're going to have to go anyway. and so when he finally acquiesced, okay, then you have to have a medical professional go with the body and stay with it all the time and we did. >> i understand your article indicates they let us go because mrs. kennedy wanted to leave? >> well, yeah, she wanted to leave, but mrs. kennedy even had a conversation with dr. rose over really any conversation recording leaving. >> in this obit it says, dr. rose believes many theories wouldn't have gained traction,

meaning the conspiracy theories, if he had been able to do his job. >> and speculation, our changing, moving the body and putting a different body in the casket, many other things, which are stupid, ridiculous and dumb. nothing was done that in any way changed the outcome. the body was taken to bethesda in maryland. the autopsy was performed under the observation of fbi agents, and secret service agents. and the results are known. >> as an aside, by the way, the fella we talked about in the last interview, vince palmara, have you seen his letters about your book? >> i've not read it. >> i'm sure you probably know he's had-- that mrs. kennedy and me is highly recommended to everyone for its honesty and rich body of truth. he actually fully endorsed your book even though he's been

critical of-- >> i'll accept. are you worried that he's being-- >> maybe he's had some secret agenda, i don't know, but i accept his praise, thank you. >> in your book, you say that you and mrs. kennedy never talked about the assassination. why not? >> well, i was not going to bring it up. and she never did. it was something that she just, she didn't really talk to about with anyone, even today if you go to the kennedy library in boston you'll find the assassination, there's only one reference to it. it's at the very end of a tour that people take, there's simply the walter cronkite statement. other than that, there's no representation of that day whatsoever. which, it's the entire library is based on his life and his legacy. >> you say that when she slept, you slept.

>> yes, which wasn't much. >> how did you do this if there are only a couple of you taking care of her, i mean, how would-- if you were asleep and she was asleep who was protecting her? >> we used field agents as supplements for the midnight shift, for example, in new york. a new york agent 0 would be there to work when we didn't work. when she moved, we were with her and we had field office agents supplementing us even then, to drive us around. we didn't know new york city that well and the field office agents did. they knew where to go, they had great contacts, if we wanted to go to certain restaurants they'd get in touch with that restaurant and they'd do the work for us. we accompanied her at all times. >> and after the assassination in dalgs dallas, how did you approach the next 48, 72 hours, what was your life like? >> i was completely devoted to

making sure she was okay, whatever she needed we were going to make sure she had, that i didn't get hardly any sleep. the morning of the 23rd i went home about 6:00 in the morning just to shower, shave, ate something and came right back to work and worked until like midnight that night and finally went home and got a few hours sleep. same way for the rest of that week. and on thanksgiving day, that's following thursday, we flew to massachusetts so she could talk to his father. so, i mean, it was something we had to do because there weren't any other people to take our place and we knew that she would want us with her and we wanted to be with her. >> so where were you during that time period? where exactly did you go with her? >> every place she went. >> where did she go? what was her life like? >> well, we left the bethesda hospital at about 4:00 in the morning on the 23rd, went back

to the white house. the body was placed in the east room and she and some members of the family were there and she then went to the second floor. i went to my office which was on the ground floor, when i found out that she was-- had gone to sleep and she was in for a while, i went home and shaved, showered, changed clothes, ate something, came back. and during the day that dayton the 23rd, she began to set plans for the funeral. and she had sergeant schriver, her brother-in-law, set up in an office in the white house and work with other people and she wanted it done a certain way and they did it that way. that afternoon i look her over to the arlington national cemetery with-- we met the secretary of defense there, mcnamara and she went around looking where she wanted the president to be buried.

they picked out the spot and we went back to the white house. the next morning was the day, sunday the 24th, the body was-- there would be a service in the east room for the family and staff. then the body would be taken to the capitol. president and mrs. johnson would come over to the white house because they were living at the elms, his personal residence and they would pick she and the children up to accompany the president's body to the u.s. capitol and placed in state. before that happened i was over in the east wing of the white house conferring with my boss, gerald bain, and the phone rang and it was general mccue, the air force aide to president kennedy. they said that mrs. kennedy and mr. kennedy were there to see

the president's body. we opened the casket and making sure everything was okay and allowed them to see the president. in the process she asked me to get her a pair of scissors. >> and i got her scissors and she did what she wanted to do. >> did she cut a piece of his hair off? >> yes, she did. >> what did she do with it? >> i don't know. she had it, but i don't know what she did with it. >> were the guards around the casket, what were the instructions? >> at first, general mccue asked the officer in charge to have the guards move out of the room, the east room. and she said, oh, no. just have them turn around so we can have some privacy so that's what they did. they took three steps back and faced away from the casket and that's when she and bobby kennedy looked at president kennedy in the casket. >> why did she decide to walk to st. mathews, how far away from the white house.

>> it's less than a mile, i suppose. she wanted to walk the entire route. >> to the capitol? >> all the way, the capitol down from the white house to the capitol, back to the white house, to st. mathews to arlington, but finding out that all of these heads of state were going to be there, some of them were in their 80's. she finally acquiesce okay, she'd only walk from the white house to st. mathews. >> even then there was a problem. talked to talk her out of it, i tried. >> there's more to the story for the salute for john kennedy, jr., he had been taught to salute before that day. what was it? >> well, back in early november, mrs. kennedy came to me and said, you know, president kennedy's going to go to arlington national cemetery on november 11th to pay tribute to the troops and i want john to go with him and he want him to salute his father, like all

the military will. but he doesn't know how. can you guys teach him? sure. so the agents that were working with him. bob foster, lynn meredith, tommy welch they got him started and he saluted quite well. and most the time he was using his left hand. >> he was three? >> he was three, yes. not quite three. >> and so he went with his father and he did very well. so then, during the process of the funeral, we were up in the capitol and he got a little rambunctious and the agents took him down the hall to a side office and they tried to figure out what to do to keep him busy so they had him practice his salute and he always did it with his left hand. there was a marine colonel standing in the doorway watching, just shook his head and came walking in,

apparently, i wasn't there. this is what the agents told me. came walking in, and said, john, you've got it all wrong. and he showed him how to salute. and that stuck with him. he did learn how with his right hand and took the agents forever trying to teach him to do it and he just didn't quite get it. and this marine colonel took him about two minutes, maybe, and he taught him how to salute. and day of the funeral as the president's body was removed from the church, placed on the caisson to go back to arlington, to go to arlington, mrs. kennedy just bowed down and said into john's ear, salute your father. and he did. >> we're about out of time. when you were working on the ford detail, president ford was shot at twice, two women in prison because of what they did. did they both shoot at him? >> that happened one month after i retired. >> oh it did.

>> one did actually shoot at him and the bullet went over his head and another one, the gun didn't go off because the agent jammed his thumb between the hammer and the cylinder. >> the reason i bring that up. we only have about a minute left or so. knowing what you've been through, living the bad years when, you know, the drinking and all of that stuff. what would you recommend, god forbid this ever happened again, what would you recommend for somebody doing what you did, to avoid this personal difficulty? >> willingly seek counsel, see a psychiatrist, talk about what you went through, getting it out. holding it in caused me the problem. i didn't talk to anybody, other agents, my family, anyone. i kept everything inside and that's what really got me. >> the end of the book, before the epilogue, in the last couple of sentence we'd been so much together, mrs. kennedy and me, more than anyone could imagine, and ended by saying,

more than anyone can ever know. is there a lot we don't know, a lot kept out of this book? >> oh, not a lot kept out of the book. yes, she and i had secrets, they're not in the book, that's what they are, secrets. a few of them are revealed about her smoking, most people didn't know that. but-- >> three and a half packs a day. >> i don't know if thats that much. my smoking, perhaps, her, no, know the that much. also, that she loved to read tabloids. >> and you had to get them for her. >> i was the one that had to buy them, a lot of little secrets that she and i had, they'll always remain secrets. >> you're not going to put them somewhere in a bottle and hide them until 50 years from now? >> no, i don't plan to. >> clint hill, special agent, secret service with lisa mccubben, the book it called "mrs. kennedy and me." thank you very much. >> thank you. ♪♪

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