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video up and online@c-span.org. forest managers of public and tribal lands testified on post posed legislation to reduce the intensity of wildfires. wildfire preparedness was discussed and how staffing cuts to the u.s. forest service impacting public land management the subcommittee hearing is about one hour 40 minutes.

private property jurisdictions and we've all seen the destruction catastrophic wildfire can cause on a rural and big communities. just this week we are witnessing fires burning lives and property in the carolinas and unfortunately recent history with incidents illustrating the devastating impact spires have on our communities from the 2018 camp fire in paradise, california, to the 2023 lahaina fires in maui, hawaii, to the 2025 southern california fires as well. in order to treat an issue first we must identify the systems -- symptoms in implement sound treatment. the loss of human life and property from these fires are an acute and painful symptom of a

disease that is not working. the cause of these fires is rooted in misguided policies that go all the way back to the forest service 1930s so-called 10 i'm policies which requires all fires to be extinguished by 10:00 a.m. the day after they are discovered. these causes have been compounded by the federal government's inability or unwillingness to treat the right acres at the right time at the right scale over numerous administrations. treating this problem comes in the form of an all above approach to modernizing the federal technological toolbox for assessing and identifying wildfire risk facilitating early response and the public-private partnership model for federal state tribal county and private landowners to address fire risk rather than jurisdictional or political subdivision boundaries every fire is unique. my dad was a chief of a fire department for years before becoming the chief of police. he would tell me every fire is unique. the most catastrophic fires all have similarities. proper management could help

prevent a small spark of a raging fire of devastating consequences. they are not immune to wildfire. strong wind and dry air combined to create ideal conditions for wildfires in the grass lawns of kansas in central kansas. doubtfire was caught over 180 miles per hour at the top of wind turbines going through those prairies. not all management methods mirror what the science tells what should be conducted on force acres but there important rule ring true for both. the six are fours act which we will call -- for the rest of the hearing is a rare bipartisan opportunity for congress to provide the united states forest service tribes counties and private partners with the modernized and streamlined toolbox to fight fire regardless of one another's views on the appropriate use of federal lands

and resources we all need to help mitigate the frequency and intensity of catastrophic wildfires while assuring this sound stewardship of our federal land. they provide agencies with critical needed an appropriately calibrated increases in the acreage limitations for categorical exclusions to forest managers increases which agency analysis has been shown to provide the flexibility to better address forest management to be clear categorical exclusions are not a free pass for an agency to go in and clear up forest, clearcut forest of summer led to believe. one way for federal agencies to comply with the nebo based upon extensive uses of prior environmental assessment that show no significant effect and are still subject to the scoping before moving forward. both instruct the federal government to identify at the fire shed scale the top 20% of fire sheds that are at risk of

prior exposure of the next five years in order to better focus limited resources. both permanently fixes in statute the disastrous ninth circuit decision which the obama administration petitioned the supreme court to overturn which has led to delays and management projects through unnecessary scoping in an attempt to avoid frivolous litigation. also adopting forms used bypass republican and democratic administrations in statute to limit litigation delays to essential projects. bringing good neighbor authority and a critical and overwhelmingly successful program that allowed local and state partners the ability to supplement the work to forest service if not able to do on their own land. i am honored to recognize ranking member senator for his comments. >> thank you, chairman. >> i do not know if you'd like to go before me. are you sure? all right, thank you. thank you for being here.

chairman, thank you for being here, for your partnership and for coming here last year to have a hearing. i hope that we can repay the visit. i could thank you for your leadership in organizing today's hearing and thank you to all the witnesses for joining us today. my message is simple. we are committed to the health of our forests and watersheds. the federal government must be a more reliable partner for communities and local governments. in colorado, our national forests underpins our economy and our way of life. our forest and watershed protect our water supplies, support agriculture, drive outdoor recreation and sustain diverse wildlife habitat. today they are facing unprecedented threat are at the top of the list. in the west wildfire season is no longer a season but a year-round reality for all of

our communities. these wildfires do not just burn trees. they endanger lives and devastate communities and they destroyed his infrastructure. the effects of wildfires are not just filled in colorado but across the entire country. that is a watershed supply to 19 states and parts of mexico. for tens of millions of people. without the water there is not a single town or city in my state that would exist. there is not a county that would exist. the help of the forest are exactly the same thing.

managing the forest a one-size-fits-all approach. it will not work. the habitat in the water supply that we have tried to protect. there is a long track record of collaborative projects for the industry. making the work easier, not harder. unfortunately, taking a chain saw to the forest service workforce and funding makes life harder for colorado. makes it harder for citizens in the west and it does nothing to advance local forest management and partnership.

the dedicated public servant to manage our national forests is not just shortsighted, it is downright dangerous. much of colorado is already in drought. once before summer has even started. right now, snowpack is below average in all but one of our major watersheds and temperatures have hit record highs over the weekend reaching 10-15 degrees above the historical average. whether it is to fix the forest acts or any other piece of legislation, it will not matter what we do here in congress if the administration is simultaneously undermining our land management agencies and withholding their resources they need to do their jobs. i appreciate the goals of the act which we will discuss more today. i really do. if done thoughtfully, reducing

wildfire risk through active management is an important goal. and, by the way, we are running out of time. i worry that the bill as it is currently written places an unreasonable burden on communities and ties the hands of local governments potentially undermining the collaborative approach needed to move forest management projects forward. i recognize that the wildfire crisis affects us all and we have a responsibility to find a bipartisan solution. i am ready to work with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to advance legislation that includes the forest policy, challenges investments that are needed to reduce wildfire risk and improve the federal government's work with states. after all, they are called national forests for a reason you'd over the last decade, we have spent $6 billion of wildfire risk reduction work and

38 billion, six times that much on wildfire response and recovery. it just makes sense, mr. chairman. $50,000 an acre to fight a fire. it is a lot cheaper to do it on the front end. if we do not invest now wildfire mitigation a watershed restoration and the federal workforce tasked with doing network, it will cost us hundreds of billions of dollars a year in firefighting and recovery costs in the coming decade to say nothing of the damage to our infrastructure, to our way of life. i have told chuck schumer over and over again mr. chairman, these national forests are more important to us from an infrastructure perspective and the lincoln tunnel is to new york. he does not necessarily agree with that. but it is true. do not tell him i said it.

so we have to get serious about this. no well of government can tackle this alone. i am very grateful, mr. chairman , for this hearing today and i look forward to hearing from our excellent witnesses. protecting our forests, our communities and our future. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, senator bennett. we are not able to have a representative here to testify on the act

ceo and founder of magnifier action. focusing solely on advancing policy solutions to the magnifier crisis. he has held senior rolls in the u.s. congress in california state legislature most recently the executive director of california's democratic congressional delegation in the house of representatives where he was responsible for advancing the delegation statewide policy priorities. next the ranking member is introducing two of his constituents from colorado. >> it is my pleasure to introduce the two witnesses that i invited to testify today at this hearing. both witnesses are incredibly knowledgeable and understand the importance and the work that goes into stewarding our public land. i have invited them to be here today to speak about their experience in wildfire

mitigation and share their perspectives on the importance of investing in land management projects and agencies. our first witness commissioner jonathan houck is serving as gunderson county commissioner a position he has held since 2013. he has a lifelong public servant well, actually, it says longtime public servant but i also know he is a lifelong public servant. first serving on the city planning and zoning commission for two terms which included serving as mayor i have known commissioner for over a decade and has been kind enough to invite me to his county over and over again to fish numerous times. one of the first things that you notice when you visit the county which is, by the way, one and a half times the size of the state of delaware is that it's national forests are foundational to its economy. forests and gunderson county

supply timber to the last remaining timber would mail on the western slope. tracking visitors from around the world with over 1000 miles of trail and produce oil and gas and coal. i cannot think of anybody better here to talk about the value to rural western communities. i think also frank who is here as well. formally serving as the regional forester for the rocky mount in region where i had the pleasure of working with him. he is now a member of the board of directors to the national forest service retirees. he has worked at every level of the forest service starting his first role as a seasonal forestry technician in the rio grande national forest and later serving as a legislative specialist in the washington office notwithstanding that experience he was willing to come here and testify. these are just two examples

among the many other roles that have given him the unique perspective to understand the deep importance of the work done at all levels of the forest service. we are delighted that he is here today. i will turn it back over to you. >> thank you, senator bennett. i will next introduce tim from southwest oregon. he has assisted private landowners and manage forest land while navigating challenging issues like wildfire , endangered species at a never changing regulatory landscape. since 2012 he served as the cow creek and as the director forest management. in his current capacity he is working to develop an expanded timberline base that will provide for the cultural and economic well-being of the tribe for many generations to come. next i would like to introduce mr. robert gordon. mr. gordon is the senior vice president policy research and international for the american

property-casualty answers insurance association. he is responsible for working the association's members to develop and frame policy positions on the opportunities and challenges facing the insurance industry at the state federal and international levels previously mr. gordon was the parliamentarian in your counsel and the compliance office over financial services in the u.s. house of representatives. now we will turn to our witness testimony. thank you to all the witnesses for being here and preparing. you are now recognized for your statement. >> thank you, mr. chairman. chairman marshall, ranking member bennett and distinguished members of the subcommittee thank you for the opportunity to testify today. i'm the founder and ceo of magnifier action a nonprofit organization. magnifier is solvable.

therefore policymakers have an obligation to do more to solve it. as we saw in january the magnifier crisis is continuing to accelerate and our systems are continuing to be overwhelmed year after year. this is a nonpartisan emergency that requires a bipartisan response and the act is an excellent lace to start. before i dive into the support for the bill, i want to make one thing clear. we cannot fix our forests if we have nobody to fix our forests. for decades we have completely failed our workforce especially for wildland firefighters who will bid us to do too much for too little for far too long. the current firings and phrasings are only making things worse. this is a long-standing problem. it is appalling that we are continuing to put our firefighters in this position in a permanent workforce remains an urgent need in congress should step in to stop the bleeding. under the bill there is a lot to like. we see it largely as focused on two challenges.

permitting reform and technology adoption. both essential to scaling the wildfire mitigation. let me start with permitting reform. we know that it can restore the system balance and reduce risk yet we are nowhere near eating the scale that is needed. last year 800,000 acres of the highest risk landscape which was a record high but is still far short of the millions of acres needed to gear needed to reach our targets. and we know that treatment saves money. senators have before you a slide deck from our friends at fiber planet that underscores the value mitigation investment. a recent analysis by them found 76 million lawyers and projects protected $2.1 billion in structures. the roi is undeniable. one major barrier to this is the slow and concept permitting process. they estimate that it consumes 40% of direct work and can frequently lead to gears of

delays in getting projects off the ground. i do want to note that there are legitimate reasons to be concerned. lessons forged in the timber wars will not and should not be easily forgotten. but the facts on the ground have changed and our policies need to adapt. we have seen that cutting red tape can get results. the 10,000-acre categorical exclusion in the lake tahoe basin sped up treatment helping stop the cal door fire before it reached elk lake tahoe. after losing 20% of the world giant sequoias to wildfires the forest service expedited enabling the land coalition to treat 54% in just a few years. just last week, president trump and gavin newsom both took emergency action to remove regulatory hurdles and accelerate treatment on public land. the people in charge of managing risk understand that they need to get out this problem in the forest act complements these

declarations by codifying in statute a process to ensure these efforts are targeted and successful. the bill expands limits from 3000 to 10,000 acres providing land management flexibility to move the aunt small random acts of mitigation and towards strategic landscape level projects needed to move the needle in a serious way. by focusing on the highest risk landscapes in the most impactful treatments identified through the fire shed investment the reforms of this bill targets the most critical work around. over the last few years we have seen explosion of technology companies offering solutions at every phase of the fire. this is not a hypothetical where we need to go, but the scalable technology already exist to make taxpayer-funded programs more effective and help us reach our goal faster cheaper and better. and, yet, these tools remain fragmented across 50 programs of strained budgets leaving them to

effectively deploy tech when they need it most. it addresses this by creating a fire shed center to improve wildfire decision-making across prevention suppression and recovery. there is currently no single entity responsible for evaluating understanding and acting on risk across jurisdictions and landscapes in the united states. like a combat support agency at dod, the center will integrate real-time intelligence, predictive modeling to support firefighters land managers and communities and we need to ensure that the agency is built to move fast. beyond the center we strongly support the wildfire technology program in the bill to spur private-sector innovation. scaling these solutions quickly is absolutely critical. to maximize impact congress should consider expanding this provision to include deployment and authorize existing fund for wildfire technology acquisition. in cold collusion it will move the federal government towards a

more proactive science driven approach wildfire management. the bipartisan effort led by chairman westerman and peters has produced a solid product and i look forward to working with the committee to strengthen and refine this bill to maximize its impacted thank you for the opportunity to speak today and i look forward to your question. back then i serve on the board of directors of the national association for service of iras. the service and associates dedicated to adapting to the challenges of today and tomorrow the members understand the importance of fiscal responsibility efficiency and cost reductions. we are gravely concerned about essential services for recent actions cutting the field going workforce. deeper cuts are expected

significantly impeding the ability to deliver critical goods and services. this includes the work outlined in the forest act. retiring in may of 2024. the first day of the seasonal forestry technician. taking the recreation areas to leadership roles as senator bennett mentioned. january 20, 2436 other organizations representing millions of outdoor enthusiasts sent a letter to speaker of the house mike johnson and minority leader hakeem jeffries supporting the act. this legislation would provide then managers with tools desperately needed to strengthen the role of states, tribes, local governments, collaborative groups and other owners in forest management.

the recent cuts will make it very difficult to deliver on the promise of the legislation it along with nearly 1000 staff who took the resignation are hollowing out the agent the and the future of america's forest. the hikers skiers hunters and anglers and people that just simply value the impacts. more than 16,000 communities spending visitors to national force grasslands contributing about $10.3 billion annually to the u.s. economy. the family wage jobs that have a foundation of any rural communities. all of this is at risk due to sweeping random staffing cuts at the end the future of our public land heritage has several examples to share.

approximately 3400 forest service employees with less than one year service in their positions, mostly technicians designated for firing simply because they were easy targets. many of those fired were military veterans. special authorities as a recognition of their service to our country. more than 75% of those employees at wildland fire qualifications including on the ground firefighting not just support roles. on the ground boots on the ground firefighting. a couple other quick examples, six of seven members of the strike team in the rocky mount and region were fired and several individuals fired to work on hurricane helene were also fired. some of these employees were hastily fired are brought back to do important work. please do not underestimate the uncertainty that this uncertainty has damage morale and slowed work in wildland fire timber management and storm recovery.

as a result thousands of communities will face greater wildfire risks as planned fuel reduction projects will go uncompleted. businesses were allowed forest related goods and services suffering and the agency will struggle to be the administration's goal of what independence. the forest service of course works for the executive branch and the forest service has always adjusted to priorities of the incoming administration. some of these cuts will make it difficult to do so. the essential services for states counties in private ownership. public land belong to all americans and should be managed for federal protection. public land held in public trust is uniquely american ideal and they are the envy of the world. forest service employees and delivering service to the american people. they are dedicated public servant to protect and conserve these land without them to do

their work on natural heritage will be lost and they intend to fix our forest act cannot be delivered. i want to just leave you with two thoughts. they will not be able to deliver upon that act with some of these , without critical resources and staff. i thank you for the opportunity to testify and i welcome your questions. >> thank you. you are recognized for five minutes. >> members respected members of the committee thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today. i am here to express the support we believe this legislation is a critical step in the ever-growing wildfire crisis.

they are nestled in the checkerboard of private data mostly federal land. over the last 10 years, catastrophic wildfires have burned nearly 20% of their reservation and 1.1 million acres in the ancestral area. fires are really -- returning to the same places two, three, four times in the ecosystem. places that i spent time with my family hunting hiking fishing, they are destroyed. decimated tribal land. committed to forest management

not just on their land, but on the neighboring federal land as well. historic conditions guided by tribal management supported per acre with scattering of meadows today many areas have over 1500 trees. this has exceeded the capacity of our forest. it has created unprecedented fuel loads destabilized carbon and limited water resources. fires that once burned in a beneficial way now exploding catastrophic infernos that burned so hot that they completely sterilize this toil. the decision has created uncertainty for our land managers. updating woefully out of date management plans. it takes too much time and it is

too expensive. one of the biggest challenges we face for the review process. we need to streamline this process. just around the registration. we appreciate that the act remains categorical and exclusion the a good neighbor authority empowering tribes to reinvest in future forest registration progress and it acknowledges the value of cultural burnings. the tribal provisions are good start and it's worth exploring the passion expertise and the fervent will of our tribal partners. activating vastly improving and amplifying the quality and impact of the federal land

managers. this is not just about our forest, it is about clean water, healthy air, wildlife, recreation and livable communities. each catastrophic fire that burns leaves behind the greatest soils, damage fish habitat, hazardous smoke, smoke that fills along of our children come approach the crisis with innovation and out-of-the-box thinking. consider expanding the law to protect even more forest. specifically, the forest service should consider the proximity of tribal land and designating high-priority fire sheds. not just a structure account. the bipartisan effort unnecessary controversy surrounding forest management has become the kryptonite. we need to fundamentally rethink how we manage our federal forest

land. long-standing stewards. beyond the short-term fixes. a large-scale of solutions higher to the members of the committee on both sides of the aisle to pass meaningful legislation that empowers those of us on the ground to act quickly because we can break three -- three this cycle of catastrophic wildfire. thank you. >> you are recognized for five minutes. thank you for the opportunity to testify today. i am a county commissioner representing dunnington county colorado. like most residents i dedicated

to stewardship over federal public lands. they comprise 2.1 million acres, 1.7 of which are federal public land managed by the forest land in the national park service. to put that in perspective as senator bennett did we are one and half times the state of delaware in 80% federal public land. the public land home to the states largest body of water the largest coal mine, ski area and source that was used for the lincoln memorial and some of the unknown soldier. the gunnison river the second largest tributary to the colorado river system. our public land is everything to us. the foundation of our economy our culture our values and our way of life. we take seriously the federal partners to support stewardship not only for the residents of gunnison county buffer all americans and not just for today before the future as well. i submitted written testimony expressing the views and i appreciate you making a part of the record.

as i explained more fully in my written testimony a compilation of a variety of provisions making technical amendments to a variety of laws. finding existing laws granting new authorities, fine-tuning directions and calling for new studies, many of which would be helpful improvements. it also includes a variety of categorical exclusions restrictions on the judicial review and limitations for the consultations under the esa that will be harmful to the science -based community collaboration in the hallmark of our success in public land decision-making in gunnison county. we depend to put on a guarantee that they have a seat at the table to work and informed a cooperative matter with the forest service to generate the best alternatives for achieving desired conditions in our forest we depend on proactive approaches to conserving species so we can avoid listing them. while litigation is an extremely rare occurrence we know that none of that is possible if the rule of law and the potential for its enforcement by the courts is not respected. our situation in gunnison county is not unusual.

just two examples we have collaboratively developed. the decline project both designated to be implemented over a decade and cover tens of thousands of acres of national forest land. they were collaboratively developed underneath in accordance with the esa with a broad group of local stakeholders. those laws are not the problem. the capacity to implement them is the problem. those that know the forest service already knew the agency had a significant staffing crisis. the firing of hundreds of staff in colorado over the last few weeks has intensified the crisis considerably. in gunnison county alone between probationary firings and the hiring freeze for both open positions and seasonal employees the forest service alone more than 50 employees critical to carrying out the most basic of operations. this is significant and

represents issues and just one of colorado 64 counties. those fired and those seasonal employees who have their upcoming contracts rescinded our hard-working americans. they perform fire patrol and issue grazing permits clean bathrooms and assist visitors. we must stop this destruction and repair the substantial damages already that have been done as a first critical priority. if not stopped the efforts will destroy our federal land agencies and ultimately the communities like mine that depend on them to manage our public land. other times issues compiled in the act would be a significant interest to gunnison county. right now, and i know i can speak for many of my fellow commissioners in colorado many across the west, critical things that we need from congress regarding our federal lands. here's what we desperately need for a public land. we need leadership to stop the destructive arbitrary firings over federal land managers. work with communities to identified areas for increased efficiency and capacity.

it is worth noting when they are not tired that that impact actually ripples into the private sector since other seasonal employment applied to other essential needs in our small rural communities. additionally, do not discount the gut punch for those that have not been eliminated in the increased anxiety created by the current administration's approach to staffing. finally, what is happening now with the firings having a lasting and chilling effect on the future of those contemplating a career service in our public land agencies. if the true goal is to fix our forest simply start by fighting for the restoration of the most basic staffing levels both full-time and seasonal to do the good work already underway. existing timber sales, plan vegetation management actions, blazing permit renewals and already approved actions that will contribute to healthier force better outcomes and less wildfire are in jeopardy right now because a workforce that carries out those operations has been decimated. we cannot fix our forest without a scale dedicated workforce not

only at the forest service but also at the blm and park service this is a critical work that desperately needs attention. none of this should be controversial or partisan. it certainly is not in gunnison county. thank you for the opportunity to testify and i will answer any questions you have. >> inc. he. mr. gordon, you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you for holding today's hearing. senior vice president of policy research in international for the american property-casualty insurance association. representing over two thirds of the home auto and business property-casualty insurance market. a pca strongly supports a bipartisan forest act. the california wildfires earlier this year because between 95 and $275 billion in economic losses. one of the worst wildfire events in history. already expediting over $6.9 billion in payments to help families and businesses recover and we expect to ultimately

provide between 40-$50 billion in relief. roughly three times the homeowners premiums for the entire state for the entire year in the regular summer fire season has not yet begun. 70,004 wildfires per year. the catastrophic loss to communities have dramatically escalated. the losses over the last decade losing five times as much in prior decades. the majority of new homes are being built in areas that are high fire risk. particularly in the wildland urban interface next supports and other natural landscapes. the last year residential property exposures high-risk wildfire losses increase nearly 23% in just one year.

inflation, particularly for building materials and labor has skyrocketed, the estimated cost of replacing the buildings in the united states more than doubled over the last decade. worsening weather severity is exacerbating precipitation and draft cycles that increase dry brush and you will loads. so the climate having a particular impact on wildfires, legal system abuses compounding the disaster cost and we are now seeing 87% of wildfires caused by humans accidentally or intentionally with an increasing number of the costliest and deadliest wildfires triggered by utility equipment sparking during severe wind. without more collective mitigation disaster preparedness and better coordinated response, these factors are going to continue to drive escalating wildfire losses, damaging ecosystems in the environment and putting upward pressure on the cost of homeowners insurance and the cost of government disaster aid.

insurers are doing our part to develop solutions. they have invested millions of dollars in the insurance institute for business and home safety. iba just has developed safety mitigation standard for properties including spore-five standards to protect against wind and wildfire prepared home standards to protect against. insurers also participated in the congressionally established wildfire mitigation management commission including our ap cia ceo and they made over 100 recommendations including support for the iba just wildfire safety standards. in the forest act incorporates many of those recommendations including requiring government coordination for wildfire prediction response and recovery , supporting local adoption of fire resistant building methods codes and standards, encouraging better fuel reduction in supporting more resilient utility infrastructure. those are all very important.

last december congress provided $110 billion in disaster assistance in california just requested another $40 billion for january's wildfires. unless we invest more upfront and wildfire mitigation, both the chairman and ranking member have underscored taxpayers are going to keep getting stuck with ever-increasing cost for disaster response and recovery. more people are going to lose their homes and communities insurance losses will skyrocket and housing will be less affordable. ap cia ensures strongly supporting the forest act to make those upfront investments. the act builds on extensive safety research by insurers the wildland fire management emission and facilitating safety standards and needed government coordination. the insurers look forward to partnering with numbers of the subcommittee to advance this legislation work on wildfire protections. we thank you for your leadership and i look forward to your

questions. >> thank you, mr. gordon. i will ask just one question and then we will turn to the ranking member and then i will come back at the end and asked him questions if they were not picked up. i want to start by recognizing the great work that congressman bruce westerman from the state of arkansas is done on this as well as scott peters from california. bruce is absolutely a subject expert on this. and has been a great teacher. i recognize the ranking member's expertise on this as well. i will just have one question to start with the it is for mr. brandenberg. many people mischaracterize categorical exclusions as an end run. can you explain why larger categorical exclusions are critically needed and will help mitigate future catastrophic priors while still ensuring proper environmental reviews. >> thank you, chairman. i will give an example.

having a cooperative agreement under the tribal force protection act working with the national forest on restoring, attempting to restore and reduce the risk of fire to the reservation. as we approach that problem, it is a scale of hundreds of thousands that we are trying to treat. what we are practically doing is having to peace together small categorical exclusions because, you know, traditional environmental assessments just take years. years and years to get through. categorical exclusions are not fast, but there are most rapid solution to address the problem. so, this, you know, as we are looking at a watershed right now that is about 10,000 acres, we have to try to piece together several different categorical exclusions trying to make sure

that they are not interdependent , interrelated, we are not stacking those, that there is separation and it really ties our hands and what practically happens is we do not get to treat the areas that need to be treated. >> thank you. i will turn to senator bennett next. >> as we were walking in this morning, there was, i think a federal court ruling someplace. delaying the firings of the forest service employees. i suppose that that is a shred of comfort. but that is also going to add its own levels of uncertainty. and i wanted to ask the commissioner, if you could tell us a little bit specifically how these staffing shortages are hiring freezes the recent round of fires are going to affect

fire management on the landscape today, what do we need to worry about in terms of this coming summer and the work that has to be taken to prepare us for that and to fight the fires that are coming? and, frank, when you talk about this, can you talk about the importance of red cars and what that means for people as well? >> yes, senator, thank you. 75% of those that were removed, the probationary employees have prior qualifications. they are given on a card that is red, red card, it lists your qualifications. most of those folks that were eliminated or dismissed during the probationary period our field going typically having some red card qualifications often to do on the ground firefighting. not just support, we know primary firefighters put that in the position description were not removed.

collateral duty firefighters which is the back bone of the fire suppression effort as well as prescribed fire will be removed. those are our red card employees that will be in our impact of the fire, i will use a broader fire service which is all the federal agencies, state agencies and others to do fire work this year. it will have a pretty big impact thank you. >> commissioner. >> thank you for the questions, senator. the perspective that i bring is someone that actually has the ability to day in and day out walk into the office of the fire service at the blm or the park service. the big concern that we see in gunnison county currently is that there are many already approved projects. these are timber sales, these are habitat restoration projects , this is on the ground trail work that is mitigating fire danger that is approved for this upcoming year and they do

not have the staff on the ground to do these projects. i would like to maybe step back to a point that you made in your introductory contract since the partnerships and communities that make a difference. for a good example, our trail crews are funded through state funds. the colorado parks and wildlife and that money comes to the service and allows them to do projects which include vegetation management. they cannot hire that even though the funding comes from a source other than the federal government. i am hearing from the foresters in our district they will not have that to go out and mark the sales that have already approved , been through a process and part of these larger projects that i spoke of in my opening comments. we have a lot of veterans at work on the forest. a lot of these veterans have lost their jobs. one thing that i'm really happy about is how many veterans come to colorado, connect to outdoor spaces in the work that they do, the soul satisfying work that they do is connected to public lands. some of them have lost their jobs as well.

when i look at what we have monthly purchases coming summer i've concerned that we will start back logging already a place where we are struggling to keep up due to the lack of resources before the firings and i would make one last comment that the deferred resignations not hugely impacted in the gunderson field office but the neighboring white river national forest we had to folks, three folks are retired that were senior-level that when the teams need to be deployed for fires and things of that nature, they are the leadership that runs the team and i would say to frank's comments, a lot of the folks that have been eliminated recently are red cardholders and they are part of the firefighting process in our community. >> i would just say to the chairman, the secretary of agriculture is from texas and said that she does not think that they have laid off or fired any firefighting personnel. you have heard today that that is actually not the case.

they describe some of the people that had been laid off as the backbone of our firefighting effort. i think, i would speak for everybody if i can for once recall a democrat or republican, we've got a get these people back on the ground. we do not have 45 days to do the planning that is required. this is an emergency that we are facing today and we would love your help in trying to at least pause this so we can get to the other side of it. that does nothing to deal with the underlying problems that have existed in our western states for years in terms of paying firefighters what they are due to begin with. we have to find a way to work together to solve that problem as well. thank you, mr. chairman. >> chairman bozeman. >> thank you very much. i want to thank you and senator bennett for the great job that you are doing with the

subcommittee and your staff. really jumped in last year and this year and really are making a difference. as always great to be with our friends alyssa leader amy. [laughter] we appreciate her and always. i am not talking about you, john [laughter] mr. gordon. >> as your testimony mention more than 44 million homes and wildland urban interface at the risk of wildfire. can you please talk about how the provision including allowing hazardous tree removal within 150 feet of a utility right-of-way and help addresses problem and make communities safer. i have heard people discussing the bill. they wonder why eggs like that are in there. why is that important.

>> it is very important. a lot of the federal wildfire programs are currently very fragmented the hay can be very challenging for the individuals and communities and governments to navigate and access all the wildfire resources. and, so, it is very important to have them to coordinate all of the stakeholders and resources, support land-use planning, adoption of building codes, supporting protection in critical watersheds and water delivery infrastructure. the various programs also correlating with the state and local agencies, including for grant assistance. so we think it is very, very important and look forward to doing anything that we can to help you advance it. >> very good. >> senator marshall mentioned the categorical exclusions that are part of this and how

increased categorical exclusions , how they effectively help manage your nations forest. does anybody disagree with that on the panel? >> go ahead. >> thank you, senator. i would not say that i would disagree but in doing my research for the presentation today that categorical exclusions are north of 80% of most projects for the categorical exclusions used and using those to not have to go through the full process. from someone on the ground at a local level the concern is that moving further and further way for these larger projects from that community involvement you start to lose the social engagement from the communities most directly impacted in finding a way to make sure that that categorical exclusions are handled in a way that is

beneficial, but also, and they are a great tool, but i am concerned about the larger projects being used to sidestep some of the good public participation that happens to the full process. >> are you concerned about the process being so cumbersome that for some of these bigger projects it is almost impossible to get done because of the bureaucracy involved and the ability to play the system in a different way? >> senator, thank you for that. you know, my experience in a rural western public lands county now participation on the front and has been robust enough that there is seen less litigation, less kind of playing are gaming the system. i want to acknowledge that i think it is a challenge to overcome. but i think my position that are

much more in depth, the concern would be that by weakening that relation with communities you will see more litigation and more things that hamstring these projects in the long run by having that not robust public input upfront for my community i've noticed it is been very beneficial. one of the things, anybody that has been around at all is how different they are managed throughout the country. it is great that you have a good experience and working hard and everybody kind of gets along with us but that is certainly not the case every place. >> senator klobuchar. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. thank you for this great and timely hearing. i wish that we did not have to focus on it because we did not have this many fires.

we are here and we need to do everything that we can. i look at the senator with what he and his constituents went through. what we have seen in colorado and we know that these fires pose the greatest threats in the west but it is also important to know that they have not fared other parts of the country. i remember flying in helicopter of northern and seeing them burn 90,000 acres which was the largest, largest minnesota wildfire nearly a century. wildfires including the greenwood fire once again burned across northern and a soda. like so many of the northern states have been, our people get the air from canada, the horrendous fires that burned for month 10 month send months. i am concerned that recent investments by congress have led to the forest service that have been really important the collaborative wrist reductions

funding to projects in the superior national forest for hazardous fuels and creating strategic fuel breaks. just the kind of thing that we need to be doing. unfortunately these projects carried out by the forest service and its partners have been disrupted. i look forward to hearing from all of you today on this but also the act in ways we should strengthen the bill to ensure that wildfire responses directed to the areas most in need, changes to the review process are targeted and allow for community input. the forest service has the necessary funding and personnel to perform the additional mitigation. so, my first question would be of you.

can you discuss more restoration work and how does this assistant help counties and other official mitigation. >> thank you, senator. lack of funding and lack of programs. they can be funded and well utilized but there is still a shortage of funding and there is still a shortage of resources and capacity on the ground. they had the ability to get projects in the pipeline, funding and workforce tend to be the issues that tend to get in the away of those. the good neighbor authority, a longtime champion. >> thank you. >> you are welcome. >> it is great to see. i think it is very positive.

they have the ability to use that good neighbor authority to its best extent. i would also offer the expansion of those programs then also allows us for the insurance where we enact higher levels around building or wildfire protection. they are better things that our citizens can take advantage of and being able to create communities and make sure that that work is done quickly and efficiently. >> i have long supported permitting reform. currently many forest service projects are carried out using expedited permitting authorities and any additional flexibility i would like to see you focus on the wildfire risk the had are there target improvements to the permitting process this committee should consider that could lead to more active forest

management? >> well, what i would say is, we work closely with fish and wildlife service on esa compliance and other issues with historic preservation that we really do need to find ways to be more proactive quicker and that work and they are some efficiencies, i believe we can find. i know the agency is working hard on that and we can certainly do more with that. >> during your tenure as forest serve the rocky mount region, did you feel like the forest service having fewer staff and resources would have helped it accomplish more work? i know it's a really tough question. >> no, ma'am. [laughter] what i would say additionally is if i were tea for a day i would flip the organization chart upside down and put it at the top of our organization. where the work is done is where we meet people. they are cutting people on the ground they get the work done that we need to have done.

>> i get it. if you could look at it as a manager, if you wanted to make some changes, you would do them in a different way than is being done now? >> certainly would. >> thank you. >> thank you, mr. chair. i would like to thank all the witnesses for being here. mr. weiner, in north dakota, we have natural grasslands. the western started the state and we do a lot of grazing out there. talk to me a little bit about your thoughts in regards to the dual benefit that livestock grazing can have both in terms of promoting more fire resistant healthy landscapes and, of course, at the same time, really helping our ranchers. >> thank you for the question. i think one great point that this brings up is while the bill

is called this, it is really about all types of landscapes impacted by fire. we think about chaparral landscapes impacted in the present fires and absolutely grazing landscapes like you have in north dakota. one of the best tools that we have is grazing. we are really thrilled that this act includes provisions to streamline authorities and approvals for targeted grazing projects for fire prone areas. i think the other piece of this is the value of the fire shed center and helping states like north dakota that have emergent wildfire risk. understand what the risk profile is on the ground and act accordingly. i think a lot of the great work that is been done in the wildfire technology space in terms of understanding what is happening on the ground is being done at the state and local level with very well resourced states and local governments. other smaller states across the west will have a lot of catching up to do and we think the center will be really helpful.

>> when these wildfires get going in the grasslands we have to bring down some small towns, last year killed several thousand people. it is very serious. we have to be able to address them. in a lot of cases they have the ranchers out there themselves along with volunteer fire departments trying to help. you know, contain these fires. of course the state does a lot with helicopters and fire suppression and so forth. wildfire seasons have turned into wildfire years and cost of increasing 82% to address it over the past decade. talk a little bit about, you know, in this legislation, you know, what can you do in terms of cost savings to really change that? >> well, first of all, the fact that we spent so much time with the permitting and planning side would be a problem even if it was not going through the crisis that it is going through right now. >> talk specifically about permitting. president trump issued emergency action right now.

how will you get permitting approve so it really works? does this bill do it, how does it do it? >> i think this bill does do that. bringing a process to a the authority that is relative to what president trump announced very recently. >> good point. does that mean you can get the bipartisan, yet president trump do it and you've also had governor newsom do it. that really speaks to we are to be able to pass the thing on a bipartisan basis and get this thing done. an actual solution in place. the folks are responsible for managing risk, the executives out there moving in this direction and a bipartisan basis in congress should help put a process in place to make sure it meets that. >> i want to ask you about this interface where we have the urban areas encroaching on these forests. that is happening all the time. we just saw the dramatic historic consequences that confluence of urban areas and these forests.

speak to what this bill does to really address that. critically important. life safety issue. >> yes, it is. a growing issue and to the extent that we will continue to build in these risky areas. now a majority of new homes are being built in areas with wildfire risk. we have to do more wildfire safety preparedness and mitigation. it makes the upfront investments that we need to do to save people. it includes hardening existing homes with wildfire resistant materials are moving hazardous fuels, vegetation management, you talked about grazing, so important to reduce those fuel loads, programs to better coordinate the various federal programs in federal and state services. so, this bill is really important to make the upfront investments to make those buildings insurable and

affordable long-term. >> right on. very timely. thanks to you, mr. chairman, and the ranking member. >> thank you. next. >> thank you very much. i very much appreciate this hearing. far too many communities in new mexico and across the country are terrified about fire season. it is only getting longer. in 2022 the fire in new mexico which was started by the u.s. forest service as a controlled burn, largest fire in the states history, billion dollars of damages, costing mexicans their livelihoods. prescribed burns don't go out of control.

the technology that is available it does not get put out. a delegation securing funding in a specific act because of the liability of the federal government. i'm still not happy at the pace funding is going to people back home. once the fires do start we have to have the people powered wildfire modeling capacity to contain and extinguish the flames. thank you for calling attention to the bipartisan regional leadership in wildland fire research act that i and senator sullivan worked on together.

can you speak to the importance of developing next-generation fire vegetation models to support wildland fire management in rehabilitation. >> absolutely. >> thank you for your work on that legislation. we feel that peace is crucial on the wildfire sign of the legislation. coordinating effectively with the center in this bill. you know, as i mentioned, wildfire is changing rapidly. we are seeing facts on the ground change as fires are burning. we have the tools with advanced modeling to get a handle on how things are likely to play out and act accordingly. your legislation and the fire shed center can help enable that i think it's important to recognize a lot of the cutting edge work happening here is happening in the private sector. i think we do need to have to

think about how we can enable the innovation happening in the private sector on advanced modeling and make sure that we put those tools in the hands of decision-makers at every level as quickly as possible. >> i appreciate that. as a country we spend billions of dollars improving our understanding of hurricanes and tornadoes. in new mexico we do not have a lot of hurricanes. we do not invest at the same level for catastrophic fires. >> i do not understand this. this is part of america that has just been left out. now they are three western senators on this committee and i do not believe that that will happen anymore. the modeling and technology targeted for specific regions of the country. >> first-year point on hurricane , historically hurricanes have been a bigger driver of damage in the united states. catastrophic fires we recognize it now has only been around for a couple of decades.

the systems have been slow to respond. a decade of wildfire science research at the federal level. we definitely need to catch up and that. >> i appreciate that. >> as regards to different landscapes i think it's really crucial we have an approach and look at the difference in hawaii , great plains where there is a very different risk the and comparing that to forested landscapes all of which have different risk profiles, different things you need to look out for and understand if you are a manager. we think it is critical that we take a regional approach to that >> i will just remind my friends that we may need some more of them on the grassland as well. >> sheep are big part of it as well. >> i will not get into the pricing of the me. i appreciate the question that

senator bennett asked about staffing. you answer that question. it is a problem. i had a constituent from the south give me a holler because she was worried that her husband who was a wildland firefighter, there was a freeze of hiring and the people that he worked with were terminated. if a fire happens, will he come home or not? i think we need to be thinking about that aspect of this. any of you that hunter fish, take him hunting and fishing so you can go into these wooded areas and look at them. i think we need to get a good understanding of the western part of america so that way we can be working on this stuff. this is not democrat or republican. this is about the united states and the western members working closely together. those of us that do not know each other i will take you fishing, i will take you hunting but you have to be comfortable hunting with the other person that i just mentioned though that is up to you all.

i will submitted into the record now that we've had these devastating fires, i've been surprised that only new mexico and idaho have the ability to be able to produce the ceilings necessary for recovery here. we need to be looking at what we can do. we are preventing, we have better tools to fight when this happens. we also look at recovery. the last thing that i will say is do not forget about the flooding that happened for five, six, 10 years after fire hits in the west because it is equally devastating. we need to make sure that all the rules are updating themselves. so that people are not getting hurt. >> i will accept your invitation as long as it is flyfishing on a stream. okay. i have to take my dad fishing this sunday in the flood tells for the first time this spring. always a great signal that spring is on the way. senator justice, thanks for your patience. you are recognized thank you,

sir. i have a lot of white hair. i have been around a lot. i can tell you and absolutely please let me accept the invitation as well because there is nobody in here. nobody that has been in the woods or on the waters more than i have. nobody. i get it. i truly get it. the thing that is absolutely amazing to me is this. i would just say simply this. whether it all of our unbelievable farmland and the contribution of our small family farms. they are absolutely seeing right now that we have a real problem.

it is just as simple as that. we have all the smarts in the world here to figure it out. as to what to do. but we just will not react. we just think it will be okay. it will not be okay. i mean, these fires absolutely are killing our, and i just wrote down a couple of points here, but our air, water, soil, nutrients, absolutely our wildlife in more than anything our soul. our soul. and for those of us that have been on a stream with the fly rod in your hand or the absolute magistrate of all the stuff of wildlife all around us, we are killing our soul america. we have got to wake up. we have got to react. and not only do we have to react

, we have to react within days almost. that is all there is to it. when it really boils down to it, here is a solution that i can provide to you very quickly, you know, from the stamp when the west virginia. you know, we have lost all of our cabinetry and we have lost all of our furniture business and we lost it to vietnam and china and mexico. it is gone. well, absolutely, how do we get it back. in west virginia, we cut a third of our growth. we do not manage our forests in west virginia any better than the problems in the west. we've got to do something. you know, with all that being said, the canopy, we cut one third of our growth. think about this for a second. what if we created some form of funding, whatever it may be, and said, i'll tell you what we are going to do. in west virginia it would rate

really well. we would raid our contribution. do you know that when we take and cut eight tree and it turns into this right here, the carbonates frozen in this forever. the carbon does not go into the atmosphere, but if it falls down on the ground because we are not cutting but one third of our growth and we are not managing over forests and we get any kind of level of forest fire, in west virginia we get 800 a year. they are not bad, but 800 a year what happens to this carbon. right back into the atmosphere. we all absolutely are hair on fire about carbon in the atmosphere. why do we not do something about it? i tell you what we are going to do. we are going to create some kind of management funding or whatever and we are going to apply that towards labor back in states and rated and scale it and absolutely bring our absolute furniture and cabinetry

, you know, manufacturing back to us instead of it being in another country. there are so many things that we can be doing. the intelligence was all right here. we need to do it on a bipartisan , you know matter. absolutely without any question, we can do it and we can do it right now. absolutely. question is will america react? with that being said, i say i'm ready to work with anybody. i stand ready to accept that invitation, to. you will see that you will see that i am a hunter, i am a fisherman, i am a person that loves the outdoors and i am a person that wants to absolutely preserve our soul. if we do not watch out, what we are doing, what we are doing right now is ludicrous. let's figure a way to figure

this out. we need to do it right now. thank you so much, mr. chairman. >> thank you, senator justice. it looks like we have a contest to see the second best fisherman in the senate. senator schiff, you are next. [laughter] >> thank you. thank you to the witnesses for being here. i'm sorry i missed the chance to introduce you earlier. matt and i have known each other for a long time when he served as the executive director of california delegation and advised speaker pelosi as well as 42 democratic members of the house on california policy and appreciate how you brought that expertise to bear and try to tackle this very difficult problem. we are seeing in california what americans are seeing all over the country that wildfires are now characterized by a longer

forest season, by more massive size, more acres burned every year. the loss of life in altadena and the palisades, the loss of homes and businesses was just devastating. and with 100 mile-per-hour wind it was just an irresistible force to be reckoned with. and i appreciate all of your efforts to try to improve our forest management so that we can reduce the chances of these fires and the work that is being done on a bipartisan basis by my colleague scott peterson california westerman. i have concerns about the bill which i think any democrats in the house shared when this bill came before the house. now parts of the bill seem more focused on timber harvesting

than they do on wildfire mitigation. they are not concerns that cannot be overcome. good faith negotiations going on to try to make changes to the bill.

the funding freeze is affecting, reduction all this is moving news the wrong direction and so it's hard to make the case of urgency of legislation when we are taking steps that are nonlegislative and putting news the wrong direction.

but second, how can we address legitimate concerns addressed in the bill that some go beyond what would be necessary for wildlife prevention and risk without adequate public input that could hurst the forest that we are trying to save. you can address those difficulties and i

yield. >> maybe one minute for an answer here. >> i can quickly speak to the last question, senator. thank you if the introduction. i found that when we engage in the process to a lot of raised eyebrows from a lot of conservation community, what we found was incredibly productive process and good-faith process in terms of working to identifying those challenges that we've raised. i think we are heartened that there's bipartisan group of senators working to lack at senate companion bill right now. the bottom line is it can continue to be improved in the senate and i think that we have good-faith partners in the house to get that done and mike sure the bill gets what it needs to do. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i will try to do constructive part of the negotiations. i yield back. >> thank you, senator schiff. senator warnock, you're neck.

>> thank you very much, mr. chair. many of my colleagues represent states that are at high risk for large scale wild fires. wild fires are not limited to the west. atlanta is known as the city and the forest because of the city's dense tree canopy and putting at risk of wild fires. in fact, the national interagency and much of the southeast and acres burned and south carolina's governor declared emergencies due to wild fires. what are contributing factors that are increasing georgia's wild fire risk. >> thank you for the question,

senator. what we are seeing right now in carolinas what we saw in georgia, we saw it, there's a number of things that were really quite frankly shocking. i worked in the south for a number of years and didn't anticipate this type of fire happening this and factors to that. >> and in addition, the season, it's fire year. >> i can tell you something else that climate change is causing more frequent and larger and stronger hurricanes hurricane hele ravaged including georgia. i remember spending time on the ground with folks who lost

everything. helen paved from the state to the tom taking 8.9 million acres of timber with it. can you describe the increased fire risk fallen trees from stronger storms create? >> yes, senator, thank you for the question. any time we have trees falling in the forest they will start to decay and you get a fire and will contribute to the fire, in a south it might take a year for the trees to dry out and be large woody fuel for a fire but regardless, that's significant increase fire risk in the state. >> given that risk how important is swift cleanup. >> very important, sir. >> i asked that question because of increased of wild fire risks across the southeast, the trump administration is firing the very workers who are responsible

for mitigating that risk, storm cleanup and proper forest management. will these firings help or hurt georgia's ability to make it wild fire risk? >> as i stated earlier, sir, hurt the ability for i look forward to addressing colleagues to address short falls to addressing comprehensive wild fire bills. >> bipartisan infrastructure law, generational money to address wild fire litigation even so 5 billion, north of 5 billion, that is a down

payment and what is needed. i don't know what the figure might be. 20 million, 30 million. yes, sir. >> thank you so much. >> thank you. >> thank you senator warnock, senator bucker. >> what a lot of folks in this room don't know is that new jersey is a forest state. i'm glad that you all know that, 40% of my state is covered by forest and last year we had horrible, horrible forest fires. i know a lot of attention is to the west of jersey but allow my bon jovi and bruce springsteen pride. this is because climate change led to higher temperatures,

higher, dryer conditions for longer fire seasons we are seeing and worst conditions in new jersey. and we know to combat climate change one of the things that we need to do is preserve our existing forest. i've been working with current secretary of agricultural trying to continue planting efforts but old growth forest, we just need to get more trees in the ground. we also need to engage in large-scale efforts to reduce amount of hazardous fuel that accumulated in into the forest and massive scaling up of the prescribed burnings that we are doing. would do the opposite of this and instead focused on cutting down and not planting more and in order to fix this act which i think is important as everybody said, work in a bipartisan way. i believe there's some changes that we need to make and mention

a few. right now we are dealing with an administration that will take any action, legal or not that i'm seeing that will only check against those illegal actions in the judiciary and we need to make sure that we preserve that ability. and so the second area, section 121 which shortened the statute of limitations to 6 years to 120 days. i believe some shortening may be appropriate but not should be reduced to less than one year. we should not limit who has standing to bring the challenges. finally, section -- 106 of the

bill and essentially making the reviews meaningless. this bill is already watering down the nipa and esa review that is will happen but it's critical that those reviews continue to happen prior to projects commencing, final -- final concern with the bill and a question is proposed increased of categorical inclusions up to 10,000 acres. increased from 3,000 acres all the way to 10,000 acres. >> yes, senator, thank you for the question. it would be applicable to maybe pine as well as rocky mountain west. the idea of having the communities that are closest to

this involved in the process and are important and my concern with the watering down or the lowering of increasing the threshold for the categorical exclusions would be that it doesn't allow the more robust issues from industry and other folks in communities that are invested and in the back end litigate to slow things down. sometimes the idea of going slow to go fast is there. i agree there's opportunities for reform. i think that this bill has the seeds of that and when i look at the wild fire commission report it seems to be that would be a good north star to find some direction about how to mold and shape -- >> so answer me this the. >> a resolution that you can become honoraryian new jersey, can you please expand on your written testimony which was was appointed that nipaened esa have

not been a policemen in probleml causes of delay in project implementation are in your view because i believe we need to cut bureaucracy and get things done but it seems like you were saying that the delay in project implementation is not the nipa and esa. >> what i've experienced in county and western colorado it's the contracting, getting resources on the ground after environmental analysis. that has been more of impediment to getting good work on the ground in my neck of the woods than nipa process. >> new jersey turnpike, thank you very much, sir. >> no, sir. >> senate must pay. >> thank you so much. closing remarks? >> thank you, mr. chairman for the excellent hearing. i know you had a million places

to be. pleasure to hear the depths of your knowledge and broad view that we can move forward on and lack forward to working with you, chairman. so thank you, senator. >> big thank you to our witnesses again. i know that this was short noticed. you gave up personal time, you put this together and your statements will be reviewed over and your questions as well. the record will be open for five business days. i want to say big thanks to our staff members both ranking members and my personal, the committee members on both sides of the aisle did an incredible job of putting this together and made a productive meeting as well i think it says a lot the house speaker johnson saying this is a priority to get it across the finish line this early in a congress. i appreciate the chairman, ranking member, larger committee saying this is a priority to have a hearing as well. what we don't have much up here is there's finite amount of

issues we can get across the finish line. i do think this is something we can get across the finish line and look forward working with the ranking member and his team as well. so today's hearing is now adjourned. thank you. [inaudible conversations] >> 2025 congressional directory. get government officials in one place. this compact spiral guide, contact information, senate member, contact information and congressional committee, the president's cabinet, federal agencies and state governors. congressional directory caused 32.95 and every purchase helped

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