a complete success. the governor is appreciative he said. i have allowed him to beat an honorable retreat. he will direct the arkansas national guard to maintain order and protect the black children when they arrive at central high. he couldn't have been more wrong. within hours after departing the conference, falbus informed congressman hayes he had sleuth absolutely no intention of issuing new orders. the president realized he had been duped. in a clear example of the immense character of the man, he admitted what had happened and he placed the first call to his attorney general who had advised him against meeting falbus in the first place. you were right, he said. falbus broke his word. i could tell he was furious he remembered. he was now acting like a

military commander in chief dealing with falbus, a subordinate who had let him down in the midst of a battle. eight black school children centered central high. thorn 1,000 whites had gathered outside the school. the speed with which the mob materialized and the fact it was led by one of falbus' bird hunting crow nis sort of leads you to believe maybe it wasn't spontaneous. things got ugly in a hurry. blacks around the school were attacked and beaten and at noon little rock mayor wilson man ordered that withdrawal of the black students for their own safety. the integration of central high had lasted all of three hours. eisenhower new knew his policy of moderation had failed and to the man's credit, he readily accepted that it had failed and he moved to a new means of maintaining order and implementing the court's

directive. he now understood only one course of action remained hope to him and his response was both swift and decisive. in my career, he told brownell. i have learned if you have to use force, use overwhelming force and save lives thereby. how is this for overwhelming force? he called the secretary of the army at 12:08 p.m. secretary of the army issued the orders, and two hours later they had wheels up on the first aircraft. the black students would henceforth attend school under the protection of the paratroopers of the 327th airborne battle group. pros. how then are we to assess eisenhower in this crisis?

on one hand evidence suggests the employment of federal troops might have avoided what happened there. if only eisenhower had demonstrated resolve early in the crisis. instead, he clung tenaciously to his policy of moderation throughout the crisis hoping that restraint and word and deed would lead to a collusion without confrontation. further, his silence in supporting the court's decision and the morality of segregation spoke volumes. active support for the federal courts in general before the crisis encouraged lawlessness of those who sought to defy them. that said, as soon as he realized that his policy had failed, he readily admitted his mistake and implemented a very different policy, a policy that

resulted in success. so i'll end where i began. how do you get right with ike? >> thank you to our panelists. we have about 20 minutes now for questions and i believe our microphone is over here so if people have questions, if you would come over to the microphone. is that okay? but as moderator i am going to take the first shots, exerting my privileges today. i would like to ask the panelists what does eisenhower's performance on civil rights tell us about his strengths and his weaknesses as a leader? >> well, the next time i'm asked that question i think i'm going

to recount dr. sanders' presentation. having been enlightened now, i think one of his strengths as a leader clearly was an ability to be nimble to the situation. dr. sanders mentioned governor burns of south carolina who had, in addition to being a political supporter, someone on whom president eisenhower depended for a number of things when it came to political guidance and advice. this was a governor who was popular in his own state in south carolina, who had his finger on the pulse of other politicians in the region. governor burns was fueling this notion that to overstep with presidential authority risked

such a backlash in the southern states that schools would close. that basically southern states would create segregated schools, provide funding for families who couldn't afford to send their kids there, but that there was a very real possibility of this happening. so the ability of president eisenhower to make adjustments in his posture as dr. sanders so carefully outlined i think is important to keep in mind with that cop tentext. in other words, he believed in a policy of moderation in part because it was very clear to him that there would be this backlash if there was an overstepping. and i'm a d.c./virginia resident. virginia was among the leaders in what was the massive resistance movement. this was actually happening in virginia. it's not something that was a

theoretical risk that he was trying to balance on one side of this legeer. this is something he was very much aware of. it was occurring just a few miles away, as close as arlington, virginia, which is the washington, d.c., suburbs. so his ability to read these situations i think is a major strength. i'm not sure about a weakness given the kinds of challenges the country continues to face and were very palpable at the time. i think i punted half the question but that's moi attempt. >> i would say, first, that i have ap enhanced appreciation for eisenhower based on mr. marshall's talk and what he was doing -- i mean, i have done some considerable reading on this, but i haver in run across the appointments. i have never run across that. so i have an enhanced appreciation. i will tell you another reason. obviously i'll go ahead and get

my negative out of waof way. herbert had graduated from law school. he had been in the board rooms of the east and all of that, right? ike picked him for a particular reason, his savvy of human nature and how to get things done, and yet when brownell said from the very first you do not -- adams was telling him to meet. brownell was something don't meet with this guy. he's going to use you. he didn't listen. he was going to follow that policy of moderation right through to the very end. so in failing to begin a modification before the whole thing blew up, i would say that's a weakness. now, strength along with the ones i recounted here, it is very easy for me to sit here and

poke at ike. isn't it? sure is, right. but a strength i would say is once the man made up his mind, as he said overwhelming force. let me tell you a little caveat. '62 we went through this with james meredith at ole miss. robert kennedy and john kennedy came up with a strategy. we can do this with federal marshals. with they didn't figure on was how many federal marshals it was going take. they started pulling guys from everywhere and giving them a federal marshall's badge. no weapons, and sending them down to oxford. they worked out this elaborate ballet. there's a telephone conversation. you have to bull your guns and bobby kennedy says we're not -- you have to pull your guns.

and there has to be at least eight of you. they refused to send in sufficient force. as a result by midnight that night those four men were bottled up in the lyceum and nicholas cat zen back sent a message send troops or by morning we'll all be dead. now, to his credit, eisenhower said, very well then, if that is the way the game is going to be played, i can play that game. you had your chance. >> the james meredith episode reminds me of something and i'll take a stab at -- i wouldn't call it a weakness but maybe it was a sign of the times and being old school and i've had experience with a lot of campaigns, most -- not very

memorab memorable, but if you read thinking about the james meredith episode reminded me of some sections in the recent book "coming home to glory" mr. president eisenhower returning to gettysburg. and there is clearly a lack of any interest in self promotion in president eisenhower's demeanor. he clearly bristled during the meredith episode that on the one hand he could see that this was fairly predickable but no one at the time seemed to be giving hip the credit he deserved. now with the hyper24 hour news cycles, you would think that in a more modern era surrogates would be out addressing the contrast, but there was --

there's nothing in the books that suggests that he was either champing at the bit to get out before the cameras to call attention to the contrast which would have benefited his legacy or that he was even calling folks together saying can we get a little strike team out to try to point out the contrast? and clearly that would have served him well. it was a short coming that took a while for people to come to grips with. >> i'd like to follow up, commenting on dr. sanders' point that eisenhower was first and last a man of moderation. can you be a leader from that position? so i'd just like everyone to think about that. and i believe we have a question from the audience here? yes. >> first of all i'd like to thank dr. specht for moderating for us. and dr. sanders and a juris

doctor rat, mr. marshall. i graduated in 1972 which was six, seven, quite a few years after brown versus board. and we had a total of my best rek lation three black students at about 1600 students even at that time and it was kind of an interesting process of how the zoning went. that said, and i feel like i suffered for it. i felt like i was really -- when i went to kansas university afterwards, it was a culture shock. i just knew there was trouble at topeka high. i remember the days of blockbusters where people would sell off the real trs not to sell to black people because the perception was the value of your home would go down if a black family moved down. it didn't sit right with me but

it was a fact of the times. i have a two-part question. i want to dress affirmative action for just a moment. it's my understanding that in the case of several cities, i believe also in xtopeka where i am residing, black students have a choice of going to any school they want. however, that same right is not aforward aforwarded non -- i'd just like to kind of get some feedback from you and see what you think of it. one other note i wanted to say that i find it kind of ironic that the black served with distinction during the civil war. a bet with white officers. and there were the tuskegee airmen that served in military. but they were very limited. but they did a lot of driving

and, of course, catching and that sort of thing. that said, i'd like your thoughts on that and just basically do you think the time for affirmative action is here or is outdated? you know, and as you -- the criticism of eisenhower also kind of struck me. i'll end with this. you have to understand the times. okay? and the morays of that time. i thought it was ground breaking. we look at what's happening with don't ask don't tell and what a controversy that is. you can mantle the quantum leap he made by integrated the military and schools. i think he had a good basis in terms of a slow but study because if you turn all of that at one time, i think it would have been a master bolt. >> first of all, thank you for sharing your experience because it's -- we're similar era in terms of schooling but -- and

it's fairly recent and the numbers were still often and i share your view that the shared experiences can help all of us as we go forward and deal with life's challenges. and that for me gets to the a i firm tiff action question which is, "a," the ideal of a diverse society and particularly in education where there are opportunities for individuals to not only enrich themselves and prepare for professional life, but also to gain a broader understanding of our collective experiences as a society. so i believe that affirmative action is in its most general

form is program that our country needs to continue to pursue in various forms but there are clearly pieces of it that need adjustment. president clinton for whom i worked characterized it as mend it, don't end it. i believe that part of that conceco concept needs to be be a opportunity to make sure educational programs bring a full breadth of diversity. but i think that -- i'm well aware that there gets to be a point where different demographic groups start to push up against others and we have, unfortunately, limited opportunities ultimately, but i don't think we're to that point

where we can afford to sort of stop trying to find people to bring diversity in all its forms to our educational opportunities and our economic opportunities. >> okay. >> my take much the same. i'll simplied a i support affirmative action and i will von fess to you it's primarily -- my reasons are primarily selfish. i won't as much as any american to have as strong an america as we can have. and history we talk about the diversity of the tapestry, right? we go out and try to find every little piece of every little story and it's not because we're just trying -- we have to talk about women for a little bit, now we have to talk about indians for a little bit. no, no, that's part of the story. and you don't have the whole story until you have all of that. right? we don't have a whole nation.

we need everybody, so if they want to bus a deserving child from one part of topeka to another, then i say good, good for the black child, and good for the white children. the point mr. marshall makes about bumping up agains, that's a cause of a lot of the fraction. but there's also success. when the two of us were kids, wasn't any danger of bumping. no danger at all, right? my high school didn't desegregate until 1967, ten years after brown and immediately all the white kids left, went to a trumped up school in the back of somebody's bodily harm, right? and the school went from 100% white to 98% black just like that overnight. we're passed that. a bump away. >> thank you very much.

>> i'm autumn fox and marshall. you spoke about president eisenhower's judicial appointments and the moral fiber of those judges and the impact of those decisions. and as a lawyer who appears in front of many courts, it is i would ask your opinion that it's based more on political correctness. i think your fathers foresaw that when we resigned and said he didn't want his seat to become a black seat. he wanted it to go to the most qualified judge. the other thing is i think that many citizens don't recognize the impact of judges' decisions on their lives whether that is a state district court judge or whether it's a federal district court judge. in the state of kansas when we vote, we have retention largely

for a court of appeals and for a supreme court in the state of kansas. i know many people who vote either all yes or all no. and know nothing about those judges. and when our district court judges are up, they know nothing about them. i agree with you about the importance of the appointments. i would like your comments on whether you believe it's based on moral fiber and courage. and also to please address as i've tried to do when i speak at public functions, the importance of our judges and who they are and how they impact your life. >> well, thank you. it's a lot to address. let me give it a try. on judicial appointments, one of the things that's become very disturbing is that there are -- there is a near inability to get judges confirmed. this is something which started

several presidents ago. it grew quite a bit during the presidency of george w. bush. and it's creaturing a crescendo now an inability to get judges confirmed. part of it is it tails back into the lifetime tenure and the kind of impact that a judge can have over a long period of time. judge frank johnson who we discussed earlier for example was given his medal of freedom. he was appointed to the bench by president eisenhower. he received a medal of honor from president clinton in the '90s. longevity in these positions has its effect. i think on the issue of political correctness as juxtaposed with courage,

probably get in trouble for saying that. but i think we have evolved into a situation where there's a first box on the checklist which is -- i'm not so sure i would characterize it as political correctness, but there is this need to find nominees who are going to be in a sense find the least common denominator because of the lack of inability to get judges confirmed. so any kind of blemish in a nominee's record is likely to delay his or her ability to get through a process. it's gotten to the point actually -- so if you can find someone who on the one hand is going to have low negatives or potential negatives but nevertheless has the kind of moral fiber and courage that we want and expect from our judges.

the possibility is still there to thread that needle. it's just become very difficult. frankly i think there's an unfortunately by-product to that. which is why would someone who's thrown themselves into a career of doing these kinds of things put themselves through a process where they may be strung out with endless background checks and hearings only to find that they never get a vote. i've been of the view for quite a while now that one of the other related unfortunately aspects of american politics in recent years has been that presidents who gain re-election, don't seem to have a lot of time to exercise the authority that they've gotten upon being

re-elected. i think there's several parts of our process where we're not allowing our leaders to be able to fully exercise their authority and judicial appointments is one of them. >> we have time for just one more quick question. we're down to the last minute or so of our program. >> my name's pam friezener. i also grew up in topeka. but i wanted to thank you for the inspiration you brought today. wish i would have had it a little bit earlier to mix with my experience to change my perspectives. however, carrying for elderly parents has brought me back to topeka. i am proud and pleased to say that i work at a school in the shadow of the brown versus board of education building. the old monroe school building. it's a magnet school where 30-plus percent of our children

get to choose whether or not to come there from anywhere including outside of topeka. they're a magnet school that teaches science and fine arts. but i am proud and pleased as i think i could be as well that we have around 40% black students at our school. 30-plus percent hispanic students. and work on all the issues still continuously. but less and less of them are racial issues. more of them because they're disadvantaged students. and i wanted to thank you for all you've brought to the table. thank you. >> well, with that, our time is up today. i would like to thank everyone for coming. and also if you have other questions for our panelists, i hope they will be willing to stick around for a bit to

address your concerns. thank you all for coming. throughout the weekend here on c-span3, watch historical events on our history bookshelf. revisit key figures, panels, and events during the 150 history of the civil war. visit college classrooms across the country. go behind the scenes at museum and historic sites. and the presidency looks at policies and legacies of past american presidents. view our complete schedule at c-span.org. every weekend on c-span3, american history tv. telling the american story.

coming up next, we learn more about the rich history of baton rouge, louisiana, one of the cities that we toured in the last year. we're at a very historic the spot in the 1770s, the british in earlier years had been known as baton rouge because it was a dividing line between the indians and the french called it baton rouge and then later the british called it richmond. in september 1779, the governor from new orleans came up to florida and attacked what was once here, this site. and was able to defeat the british and take control of the mississippi river. it was one of the few battles that took place outside the 13

colonies and louisiana took british west florida into spanish control and so baton rouge and the area east of us at which one had been british had become spanish. we were under spanish authorities even after the louisiana purchase. in 1803, the purchase included all of the land west of the mississippi and south of new orleans. so this part of louisiana remained under spanish control. september 1810, local citizens rebelled against the area and established their own republic. the west florida republic. they had their own constitution and it was all a glorious west florida republic until we became finally part of the louisiana territory. and eventually