i can't write. oh, you're just being modest, and he hired me. >> why did you take it? >> well, because it's the kind of a job that to try to do it fairly was a great opportunity. for a lawyer. i've had the luckiest professional experience of any lawyer in the country, bar none, and to have the opportunity serve in the capacities i did, any lawyer would want that. i'm very thankful and lucky. >> john doar, we are out of time. and i thank you. >> thank you. >> for a dvd copy of this program call 1-877-662-7726.

for free transcripts or to give us your comments about this program, visit us at qanda.org. "q and a" programs are also available as c-span podcasts. each week americ"american h t tv"'s "american artifacts" takes viewers to archives, museums and historic sites around the country. the smithsonian museum of african-american history and culture will open a new building off the national mall in 2015. "american history tv" spoke to lonnie bunch, the new director of the facility. we spoke to him in a washington, d.c., suburb where he shows us the artifacts that will be on display in the new building. >> right now we are in the

offices of the national museum of the african-american history and culture. this is where my staff and i will be until the museum opens in 2015. 6 years ago i started with a staff of two, no place to know for sure where the museum was going to be, no sense of what the building would look like. and today we have a wonderful architect who's created this wonderful model that i'm standing next to. this is the model that gives a sense of what the building will look like when it's erected right next to the washington monument. the cost of this building is a wonderful public/private partnership. the building it civil will cost $500 million, congress has committed to paying 50% and i'm committed to raising 50% of those costs. one of the joys of this building is that it's got this beautiful bronze skin that will be sort of

glistening in the sun, but what's wonderful about it is that it has on it a certain patterning, a certain filigree, and what that is, is those are patterns based on african-american slaves crafts people in charleston and in new orleans who in the 19th century created beautiful iron work, so this in a way is a homage to those unnamed people who did so much to sort of build the united states. and then what i love about it is that usually when you go into a building on the mall, you're inside the building. what we want to do is recognize that you're on the mall, so we want to offer people wonderful vistas because this is going to be right next to the washington monument in the shadow of the white house. you'll be able to see the lincoln memorial, the jefferson, over at arlington cemetery. so, what we've created is a porch so that the public will be able to come in and go out on the porch and look at the views

of washington. maybe have a cup of coffee, talk about what they've seen in the museum or seen in other smithsonian museums. we want the public to recognize that this building has to do several things. while it's a museum, first and foremost, we wanted to enrich the visitors' experience on the mall. we want them to be able to get views that they haven't gotten in other places. we want them to understand that they're in washington, d.c., when they visit this mall, so we'll tell a little bit of that history as well. the real question one would ask is why is there a need for a new museum, especially a museum that looks at african-american history and culture. well, i would argue first of all the way we're framing this museum is to recognize on the one hand, it's this wonderful opportunity to understand the african-american experience, to help people understand the stories that they thought they know in new ways, but to really under the deep richness and importance of african-american

culture. but what makes this important is we want to use this museum as a lens to explore what it means to be american. so, in essence, this is not simply a museum for african-americans, about african-american history. this is an opportunity to create a national museum that allows us all to understand the role that african-american culture has played in shaping all of our lives. one of the challenges when i came back to do this museum is to recognize that i had to build a collect, that at the smithsonian you could have wonderful technology, but you've got to have the iconic treasures. you've got to have the greens borough lunch count or the wright flyer. so, what we're going to do this morning is go out to our storage area out in maryland to give you a sense of just some of the wondrous collections that we've been able to find. right now we're in the storage

units of the national museum of african-american history and culture. in essence, this is the heart of the museum, because what's behind me and what we'll see today are many of the objects that are going to be the soul of this museum. so, this is an opportunity to sort of preview some of the material that the public will see when the museum opens its doors. one of the things that is crucially important, as you'll see, is that so much of the museum's time and resources are spent on carrying for the collections, that we have amazing experts who know how to preserve and make sure this material will be with us for generations, and we've opened this storage unit, and we are coming to this wonderful piece of headgear. this is a boxing headgear that was worn by muhammad ali.

as we know, that in many ways muhammad ali started his career as a boxer, but he then transformed himself into a cultural and political leader. and we all know the story of his gold medal in rome in 1960, his heavyweight championship, but what was really clear is that ali became a symbol of this unrest in america when he began to claim both his blackness and his desire to sort of campaign against the war in vietnam. this piece of equipment was crucial to ali's career, and for us to have this allows us to interpret muhammad ali from many different lenses. this piece is from the fifth street gym in miami where ali trained early in his career. one of the things that is so important is to realize how much goes behind the scenes in making a museum work, and in this case

because in essence we had to start from scratch, not only did we have to build a collection, find all of this material, but then build the system to protect it, build the systems to track it, and then build the systems to allow us to exhibit it. so, it really is this long, complicated process that takes many years to complete. what happens when you try to build a museum is the notion of getting these collections, and so one of the challenges is the variety of ways you do this. early in my career it was pretty easy that people sort of felt the desire to give to the smithsonian, but then as times change, these things became a commodity, you have planet hollywood and hard rock cafe, so suddenly people began to see these as a way to make money, so what we have is a variety of ways to build a collection. we still have people who are great donors that we court and we talk to about donating material to the smithsonian. we also get over the transom

collecting, sometimes it's cool, sometimes it's a copy, so we have to be very careful about what happens, because often when you create a museum, you are so embracive that, then, 30, 40 years later you've got material you really don't need, so we're really trying to be very careful what we collect. you also go out to auction and purchase things that are really rare. what we fry to do is limit that, but do it with things that are really hard to do. it's hard to get sometimes civil warrior material or slavery material. sometimes it's hard to get fine art, so we really do try to go out and judiciously acquire things through auctions and purchase, but the goal is to basically have a variety of mechanisms that allow us to build this collection. one of the joys of this process is realizing just what's out

there, is that there are many things that you want, that you hope to find, but you're convinced you're never going to find it. but right here we're looking at two artifacts that i was convinced didn't exist. these are materials that are related to harriet tubman, the great abolitionist and underground railroad conductor. what you're looking at here was a shawl that was given to harriet tubman by queen victoria of england as a way to honor her resiliency and the work that she's done in terms of being a champion of freedom. and what i love is that not only did we get this collector, but he gave us this gospel hymnal. this is a gospel hymnal that harriet tubman owned. what is powerful if you remember when harriet tubman would go south, often to alert the enslaved it was time to go, she would sing various hymnals,

"sing low sweet chariot," "steal away sweet jesus." harriet tubman couldn't read, but the fact that she carried this hymnal with her throughout a large part of her life is a very powerful and moving piece. and it seems to me that this museum has to tell what is one of the most painful stories of america which is the story of enslavement. and there is -- there are few things as powerful as a shackle. these were the kind of shackles that were used during the period of enslavement, and what people forget is that slavery is also about control and violence and triing trying to coerce people to do unpaid labor. i think what we want to do is to be able to interpret slavery both as a system that helped the country economically and is a system that was shaped by the people who lived it, but also recognizing that the enslavement of people continues to shape the

way americans identity is and the way americans live today. and here is a really special artifact, much like the harriet tubman material that we couldn't believe. this is a bible that we think was owned by nat turner. now, nat turner was an enslaved african who led a revolt in 1831. he led what was considered the largest slave revolt, and when nat turner was eventually captured, he had a sword and this bible. and the fact that this was passed on in the family and eventually donated to us is a very powerful artifact that allows us to tell a story that is often left out, which is the story of rebellion and a desire for freedom at all costs. but one of the things that is really interesting about a museum is that on the one hand you tell these grand stories. but on the other hand, what you

want to do is personalize it. right here is really a simple document, a piece of paper, it's hard to read, but what it is, it's a bill of sale for a young woman named polly who was a 16-year-old woman who was being sold from one person to another in the 19th century. and what i think is so powerful about this is to recognize on the one hand this is a legal document. on the other hand, this is the story of a people. this is the story of a woman's life. and so for us to be able to personalize slavery through things like this mean that we're going to be able to help the public not just understand but care. and, again, as we've said, some of these are so priceless and the way they have to be handled by experts like miguel gates moracy here, and this is really one of the prize objects we have. the story of african-americans

and the american revolution is rarely told, th. he fought in the american revolution. from 1778 to about 1782. what is powerful about this is, first of all, because he carved it, we know a lot about it. but on the other side of it is this amazing sort of symbol. it is the dove and the mouth of the dove is the word "liberty." and so the notion of an enslaved african being the person w defis in america is really a very important piece for us, and so this is going to be one of the rare things that people are going to be surprised to see. and keeping wit the sort of military experience, one of the things we know is that african-americans from the revolution war really through afghanistan used the military as

a way to kind of prove their worth, to prove they're worthy of citizenship and this was never truer than during the civil war. and what you see here are two types of civil war soldiers. and as you may know that by 1863, thousands of african-americans became soldiers in the union army, and so you'll be able to sort of see that they had these images taken part as a way to document but part of the way to symbolize of the way of making the transformation from being enslaved or even being free but being discriminated against to be able to fight for your freedom. and one of the things that are so interesting are the little things you find. so, what we have is an amber type of sergeant coral's tips and what is powerful is that they were also sort of informal i.d. badges that were made during the civil war, and this is his little badge that talks

about his name and so the fact that we have his image, we have the badge, again, allows us to personalize these stories. and because the story of the african-american experience is a broader story, it is a story about us all, one of the joys is artifacts like this. this is a trunk that was carried by an officer of the 55th massachusetts. you remember regiments were segregated but the officer tended to be white. this trunk was owned by george garrison, who was the son of the abolitionist william lloyd garrison and he served as an officer in the 55th massachusetts which was the companion unit to the more famous 54. and i think that being able to make sure that we're telling the full richness of the story from a variety of perspectives, this kind of trunk allows us to do just that. not only is it a historically significant trunk, but it's, to use a scholarly term, pretty

cool. and so to get a sense of thinking about army life, what you put in here. you in essence put in all of who you are, your belongings, your clo clothing and so this is what you carry with you. and so this is a great case that will help people really understand what it was like during the era of the civil war. this story of the african-american experience is both a story of resiliency and achievement, but it's also a story of struggle. and one of the hard parts of exploring this history is that often the people who were at the worst tended to be other americans. and so that makes it hard to interpret this, because americans aren't used to being the bad guys. one of the things that's powerful is objects like this, that convey the sort of strong anti-black sentiment. this is a ku klux klan banner.

it began after the civil war, and it goes underground and then it sort of bursts new as a result of the film "the birth of a nation." and the klan becomes not a southern phenomena, but a national phenomena in the '20s and '30s and this banner is the kind of thing that people would use to celebrate their investment and their participation in the ku klux klan, so these are the kind of things that we have to make sure we tell the painful stories as well. and then i think that one of the things that is reallyis to recognize that so enough of what shapes a community is work. and so we wanted to make sure that we found things that would give people an understanding of the way that black america

worked. and one of the most important stories, often a story that's not clearly understood, is the story of the pullman porter. this is a wonderful thing. in some ways we've become to a point where pullman in a stereo way as people who only served, who actually worked on the railroad to make sort of, you know, the travel of the elite white community comfortable. but the pullman porter played an even more important role, they were in some ways the community heart of the african-american community. they began to bring to different regions of the country an understanding of what was going on in the south, what was going on in california, and they became one of the earliest black unions. so, they were very successful in the early 20th century in unionizing and sort of establ h establishing a pattern that many african-american entities and businesses would follow in the future.

for us the pullman porter is boat a story of work. it's a story of the limits of what people were able to do because they were african-american. but it's also a story of how people transcended the limits of their job and created a way to help the entire community. and then in some ways, the whole notion of struggling against racism, battling segregation is really at the heart of trying to understand this story. these two artifacts that we're about to look at speak volumes about segregation. on the one hand, we have what was something that was ubiquitous throughout the 20th century, which were colored drinking fountains, things that were sort of ensured that the separation of the races were enforced. and as we know, that segregation was the law of the land throughout part of the 19th century and all the 20th

century, and so colored theaters, colored hotels, colored drinking fountains were part of the way america lived, and what's so fascinating is they're hard to find now. but what really moves me in addition to things like the colored drinking fountain is really looking at the depths one went to segregate america. and one of the things that is so powerful, is lali kemp, the charity hospital in independence, indiana, what i love about this is this tells you clearly that race matters. when you look at the schedule of actual hospital services. that on monday the colored could go to the gynecologist. but on tuesday, that it was whites who could go for pediatrics or internal medicine, and on wednesday whites went to their gynecologist or had the dental services. so, the notion that we were so

rigidly segregated that hours of the day were determined based on the color of your skin. i think this is really one of the most powerful objects we've collected. and this was an object that is not 100 years old. this is an object that really was sort of used from the sort of mid-1950s until medicare came in, which basically then desegregated many of the hospital facilities. so, what we want people to realize is that segregation, while it has long roots, was not that long ago. one of the things we want to celebrate is that one of the most interesting things i think about american history is the struggle to make america live up to its stated ideals, the notion of people of all races coming

together to say, we want to make america a different place, and one of the things we've collected is from a woman named joan mullholland, and what she did was collect these buttons and badges that speak volumes for the 1960s. you've got buttons that say freedom now from the congress of racial equality or buttons that say support sit-ins or support the student nonviolent coordinating committee which was a crucially important organization. and what i like about this is that this really tells you about the kind of optimism and hope. there are a lot of buttons of black and white hands together, the information that we would be able to transcend the kind of discrimination that existed. if you look careful, there's a

button that is upside down, a white button that says never. this button that says never was really the sort of button that many ardent segregationists carried to make clear that never would integration, never would blacks dominate whites. so, i think this is a really important piece. but joan mulholland in addition to being part of brought us one moving things we have, and it's something that looks simply like pieces of broken glass, shards of glass. what these are, these are materials that were collected at the funeral of the four black girls who killed in september of '63 with the birmingham church bombings. and joan mulholland and many of the other snic members were there and she collected it from the stained glass window from the 60th street baptist church and also in the street were a

shotgun shell. in many ways th volumes about broken lives, but they speak volumes about the sort of use of violence to control, to battle racial integrati integration. but in some ways, something as simple as this speaks volumes to our audience. and violence is such a part of the way of understanding this. here is a button, and this is a button that is a celebration of the life of martin luther king. these buttons were produced right after king was assassinated in april of 1968. and so in some ways, this button gives the way people to be able to both symbolize their commitment to racial change, but as a way to remember the martyred life of martin luther king. and in many ways the challenge of the 1960s is really the transformation of america and what's the vision for that

transformation. is it a vision of an integrated world. is it a vision of nonviolent sit-ins, or were there other alternative visions. and one of the most important visions of the 1960s and early '70s was the black panthers. the black panthers were a group that began in oakland, california, and they really called themselves the black panther party for self-defense. they were created in response to perceived police violence and intimidation. and one of the things that's wonderful is that this poster became an iconic poster that was in the rooms of, you know, myriad of high school and college students during the 1960s and early '70s. this is huey p. newton who was the sort of leader of the black panther party. and what's powerful about this is that this poster talks a lot about where black america was in 1968-'69. on the one hand, there's a homage to africa.

you have african, the zebra rug and african materials. you've got the kind of chair that symbolizes the kind of king chair. but you also have the sword and the rifle and the pike as the way to say that violence will be met with violence. for the black panther party, their notion was that they will do what needs to be done in order to force america to change. and so i think that being able to have this, which really has the sort of wonderful quotation that really does speak about the black panther party's commitment to their community, their desire to demand of police to not violently intimidate the african-american community, and plus the notion of the black panther being an animal that is strong and aggressive and will defend itself really sent a message for many people that a nonviolent way of change wasn't enough to change america.

when i came back to the smithsonian in 2005, shortly thereafter katrina hit new orleans. one of the things that i realized is that new orleans was devastated, often the african-american community bore the brunt of much of that devastation. one of the things that i realized that was very important for us is to document that. and as we thought about what are the things that would document it, i kept seeing the picture of people being rescued. of the helicopter, the coast guard going down and having people jump into these baskets. so, i had a colleague from the museum of american history, david shea, who was going down, and i asked him please pick up a basket for us. and so this basket was one of our earliest acquisitions and this is a basket actually used to rescue people during katrina.

so, what you've seen in many ways is a snapshot of the more 15,000 objects that this museum collected and these objects are really at the heart of what the smithsonian is, because even if you have the most amazing technology possible, it really is the artifact that really brings the public to the smithsonian, and so for us the fact that we're able to find these wonderful materials give us the greatest of confidence that we are able to craft a museum that on the one hand will tell great stories, will have wonderful artifacts, will be in a great building, but more importantly, we'll be able to create an institution that will allow the public to engage candidly over the issue that has divided us more than anything else, that is race. and so our job is not just to build a museum. our job is to build a ct