conversation to occur that makes america better. >> you can watch american artifacts and other "american history tv" programs at any time by visiting our website, kravemt sp cspan.org/history. now 50 years after ike left the oval office, thurgood marshall jr. was among those that gathered to consider his civil rights legacy and the groundwork that preceded the civil rights movement of the 1960s. this discussion is about 90 minutes. >> well, will the real dwight eisenhower please stand up. today we review the impact of eisenhower's legacy on civil

rights. historians have looked at his records in this area and have come to very different conclusions. when eisenhower assumed the presidency, the armed services had recently been integrated, but segregation still held firm in public schools. no civil rights act had been passed since 1875, and the power of the military had not been used to protect the interests of african-americans since the reconstruction period. by the end of his presidency, the brown versus board of education decision in the supreme court upended the notion of separate but equal education. federal troops had been sent into little rock, arkansas, to force the integration of a high school, and the civil rights act passed into law. in some ways president

eisenhower pushed the currents of history to open up greater opportunities for black people in the united states. however, in other ways he seemed to build dams that reinforced prejudices. assessment of eisenhower's civil rights contributions written in the 1970s and 1980s pointed out the shortcomings in his record. in his memoirs, earl warren appointed by eisenhower as the chief justice of the supreme court remarked on the president's lack of enthusiastic support for civil rights. the historian, steven ambrose, described the way eisenhower worked to eliminate discrimination in areas where federal authority clearly took precedence, but showed the president's reluctance to intervene in states. for example, by 1953, eisenhower worked through his aide max rabb

and the secretary of the navy, robert anderson, to complete the desegregation of the navy and air force. leaving only a few segregated army units which would also be a memory by the end of the administration. however, in the case of the fair employment practices commission, the president opposed renewal of this agency, which was intended to prevent discrimination in defense employment. he justified his decision based on the belief that federal mandates would only hold back progress because they interfered with the voluntary continuation between blacks and whites at the local and state levels. every elected official, he believed, should, quote, promote justice and equality through

leadership and persuasion, unquote. according to ambrose, this reluctance to take a more aggressive stance on civil rights stemmed from the president's desire to win the vote of white southerners. other scholars echoed ambrose's conclusion. in the book "the presidency of dwight d. eisenhower" chester page jr. and elmo richardson explained that in addition to political concerns, eisenhower was also part of a culture so inured to segregation that he was blinded to the commonplace injuss that it fostered and the power hierarchies that it maintained. his acceptance of this system came from his life experiences such as growing up in kansas, where segregation was practiced. working in the segregated

military, and socializing with friends who made jokes about black people. his experiences probably also made him instinctively aware of the violent response that would result from any attempt to change the system. quote, if we attempt merely by passing a lot of laws to force someone to like someone else, he warned, we are just going to get into trouble. unquote. with these words, i can imagine him echoing the thoughts of many white people in both the north and the south who envisioned a day when african-americans would be treated as equal americans and an equal part of society, just not right now, or in the foreseeable future. those who criticized eisenhower on civil rights often point out

that he did not use the bully pulpit of the presidency to push this forward, to play a role in changing people's hearts and minds about the issue. his reticence came to the floor after the supreme court delivered its unanimous decision spiking down segregated schooling in the brown versus topeka board of education case. when the supreme court announced the decision in may, 1954, the president made no public comment about the ruling, other than to assert his willingness to obey the court's decision. his perspective on the brown ruling may have expressed best in remarks that he made to his staff, quote, it's all very well to talk about school integration, but you may also be talking about social disintegration.

we can't demand perfection in moral questions. all we can do is keep working toward a goal and keep it high. and the fellow who tries to tell me that you can do these things by force is just explain nuts. unquote. these comments are the perfect expression of the go-slow approach to civil rights, and they have caused many to question his commitment to racial equality. especially when he refused to condemn the southern manifesto, a document signed by over 100 southern congressmen who demanded a retraction of the brown ruling. in the judgment of historians, page and richardson, this cautious attitude was understandable, given the level of violence and hatred that were unleashed after the verdict, but it was not necessarily fair,

they stated, since it tended to favor the status quo. within the last ten years, others have evaluated eisenhower's civil rights legacy in a different light. in part, this reconsideration was sparked by the work of political scientist fred greenstein who wrote "the hidden hand presidency" in 1982. greenstein focused on eisenhower's tendency to appoint highly qualified people who would carry out his policies while insulating him from any fallout that those policies might generate. greenstein's work revolutionized the way we look at eisenhower's presidency, causing us to see ike not as a friendly golfing grandfather, but as a clea clear-headed strategist, setting the tone on every initiative of

his administration. the historian david nichols who is a dean at southwestern college in winfield, kansas, applied greenstein's ideas to eisenhower's civil rights strategies and created a much different portrait of his contribution to the movement than earlier biographers. like greenstein, nichols emphasized the impact of eisenhower's personnel choices. the president appointed herbert brownell as the attorney general, a man who was committed to civil rights and whose legal brief supporting integration of public schools comprised part of the supreme court's information package on the brown versus board of education case. in addition, the appointments to the federal judiciary that eisenhower made shaped it for

decades. the most obvious example of this was the chief justice of the supreme court, earl warren, who spearheaded the judiciary's dismantling of jim crow. in addition, judges like elbert tuttle, john brown, john minor wisdom and frank johnson jr. were appointed to lower federal courts and played key roles in desegregating the south in the 1960s. to screen candidates for such posts, eisenhower relied on his attorney general brownell, who was instructed not to place a known segregationist on the list of judicial candidates, so true to greenstein's thesis, eisenhower gave considerable power to a man he trusted, who could make the president's objectives a reality.

nichols also reminded readers of the other accomplishments of the administration that have received scant notice over the years. eisenhower was able to use his credibility as a general to generate compliance on military desegregation so that in less than two years all combat units were desegregated. he also desegregated schools on military bases in the south before the brown decision as well as veterans hospitals. he used the power of persuasion and prestige of his office to encourage integration of movie theaters and public accommodations in washington, d.c., and used the capital city as a model for integrating schools in 1955 and 1956. he also appointed the first african-american e. frederick

morrow to be a white house counsel. finally, nichols emphasized the president's use of federal power for civil rights. eisenhower was the first president since reconstruction to use the military to protect the civil rights of black people when he sent the 101st airborne to little rock, arkansas, to guard nine black high school students who wanted to attend little rock central high school. when this incident occurred in september, 1957, he dru the ire of state rights activists in the south. yet, as eisenhower stated after the brown ruling, quote, the supreme court has spoken and i am sworn to uphold the constitutional processes of this country, and i will obey. in another exercise of federal authority, the president

encouraged the development of civil rights acts in 1957 and 1960. both of which were designed to protect voting rights. attorney general brownell helped draft the legislation and wanted stronger provisions than the ones congress passed. for the president, voting rights were of paramount importance, because he believed that by using the vote, black people could gradually change the system that was oppressing them. nichols' work portrayed eisenhower as a man shaped by a military mindset, who understood and respected the separation of powers and would not assume or usurp the privileges of the judicial or legislative branches. so, will the real dwight eisenhower please stand up.

was he the eisenhower who accommodated his southern friends, who made racist jokes, who kept the one black member of his staff e. frederick morrow at arm's length, or as he the eisenhower that would appoint judges that would uphold the 14th amendment and used the army to break segregated schooling in little rock. in many ways the frustrations we have in pinning down eisenhower's ideas on civil rights are the same frustrations many of us have with our nation's history as a whole. we have a sense that our country should have given black people the same access to the rights of citizenship and opportunity that it gave to white people, that our president should have seen this and led us toward that goal

and not been mired in prejudice or political calculation. president eisenhower was a man who held the same casual disregard of african-americans that many in his generation hold. however, his devotion to the constitution and to the procedural guarantees of the legal system enabled him to set aside his preconceived notions and take this country to a new place. or perhaps more accurately, opened enough protected space for the grassroots, civil rights activism of african-americans to survive. today, we are fortunate to have panelists who can expand and elaborate on the themes and details i tried to set out this afternoon. our first speaker is mr. thurgood marshall, jr., the son

of thurgood marshall sr., the lawyer whose arguments swayed the supreme court in the brown versus board of education case and who later became the first african-american justice on the supreme court. thurgood marshall jr. is distinguished in his own right. graduating from the university of virginia, and the university of virginia school of law as. as a young lawyer he clerked for the u.s. district judge berrington parker and served as counsel for various senate committees, he's also been in public service serving with bill clinton and serving as secretary of the cabinet of the clinton administration. currently, he's a partner in the inte93 law firm bingham mccutcheon but his interests go beyond the legal field. he is public spirited serving on boards as diverse as the

national fish and wildlife foundation, the ford foundation, the supreme court historical society, and the ethics advisory committee of the u.s. olympic committee among many others. "newsweek" magazine named him one of the 100 people to watch in the new century. and we have the opportunity today to hear him share his advice on the legal issues surrounding the eisenhower years and the men who shaped them. following mr. marshall, we have dr. charles sanders, an associate professor at my alma mater kansas state university. dr. sanders received his undergraduate degree from louisiana state university, a masters in education from north georgia college, another master's degree from the united states naval war college, and a ph.d. from kansas state, where he has been teaching since 2001. his research is centered on

military history, and he has written a well-regarded book on military prisons in the civil war titled "while in the hands of the enemy." one reviewer for the "georgia historical quarterly" wrote, quote, no one can claim to be a serious student of civil war prisons until reading sanders' book, unquote. what i admire most about dr. sanders' ability is his skill as a teacher, which i have heard about from students and others at kansas state. one anonymous student posted a comment on the ratemyprofessor's website exclaiming best teacher i have ever had! seriously! dr. sanders changed my life and outlook in history and critical thinking. if you go through college without taking a class from him, your education is incomplete. it's the kind of praise that all of us who are university educators envy.

today, dr. sanders will give us the benefit of his expertise and skills to analyze eisenhower's racial views and the little rock crisis, so without further expansion on my part, i will turn the microphone over to mr. marshall. >> thank you, and i want to thank the library and the foundation for putting together this series of programs and for allowing me to come out and participate. it's been a wonderful excuse for me to build on what i have read and studied about president eisenhower's service to our country, and i've enjoyed it immensely. as some of you know, we had hoped that former secretary william coleman could join us for this discussion, but his inability to join us today gives me a chance to quote from his

book, which i promise you he would have done liberally this afternoon, but as a true pioneer in his own right a true pioneer in his own right, secretary coleman's observations i find highly persuasive in terms of president eisenhower's contributions and the way in which he went about his job. as many of you know the 1952 campaign, it did not touch very much, if at all on civil rights issues, but for those who knew president eisenhower, it could not been too much of a surprise that he would tackle civil rights issues in the various ways that he did with courage and particularly with his appointments that dr. specht spoke to. i wanted to open our discussion from my part of the table discussing president eisenhower's judicial

appointments partly because of what the judiciary has meant to me as a lawyer and a member of the marshall family and also because they are just remarkably moving stories of courage and dedication. to me for the question marks that some have raised about president eisenhower's contribution on civil rights, the answers are quite clear looking at those judicial appointments. they're also quite clear and positive when you look at his appointments generally and dr. specht alluded to that. if you didn't know during the campaign of 1952 where president eisenhower's heart and plans were, you didn't have to spend too much time during his inauguration to get the clue. it was marion anderson who a few years before had made civil rights history in america just two miles away singing at the lincoln memorial sing at

president eisenhower's invitation. that, to me, whenever i think about it is a powerful and moving statement about how he intended to pursue the high calling of that office his service in the white house. there are a couple of recent books for americans that served on the white house staff as someone who had that experience, and all of us who had that opportunity look to the people who went before and recognized that we stood on their shoulders, but we also recognized that when we had those opportunities to serve that the people who came before us were pioneers and they were given those opportunities by the presidents for whom they served. eisenhower named the first white house staffer of color. there are still tallies on white house staffers of color because

those jobs are pretty hard to come by and, you know, the numbers are noticeable when you've got that small pool, but there were a number of other things that the eisenhowers both brought to the white house that provide further clues as to the contributions that would be provided by his service. they walked the walk. they wouldn't go to theaters that were segregated. in fact, they went a step further and the president heads to the white house to tell them that segregated movie theaters really had no place in our country. we had appointments in cabinet agencies that reflected his willingness to provide these opportunities for people of color. bill coleman served on a commission that president eisenhower created chaired by branch ricky. branch ricky had integrated baseball by bringing jackie

robinson in. i'm staying in junction city and jackie robinson with his military service at fort riley. i thought that was poignant, and i apologize for the aside, but it was a reminder to me of yet another chapter in our history, but if you look back at what branch ricky did, he didn't exactly create a fan base of everybody in the country. it was very courageous, and you take that perspective and think about what it meant to the country to see president eisenhower bring branch rick toe run a commission to diversify the federal workforce. it just is a very powerful statement. bill coleman was brought in to serve on that commission as well. bill had said in his book that he believes that the real tipping point in american history when it comes to civil rights occurred during the

eisenhower presidency, and of course, the primary piece that he points to that period would be the little rock school crisis which we'll have a chance to discuss. president eisenhower very quickly moved during his precedensidency on a number of s as you heard whether it's directing the district of columbia to desegregate, taking president truman's decision to desegregate the military, taking that and implementing it because as we all know there was a lot more work that needed to be done including the dependent schools and health care issues, but also in the military units. president eisenhower, during his military service had made the case repeatedly to his superiors that during world war ii that

soldiers of color who were doing back breaking, hard labor in support of our troops and the allied cause deserved an opportunity to take up arms as well and these soldiers who, thanks to his efforts and those who saw the wisdom and what he was urging impressed general patton with with the dedication in world war ii. so he was very much -- president eisenhower was very much ahead of the curve and everyone who wasn't aware of that certainly had reason to figure that out quickly during his administration. because i want to get to the questions and discussion. i just want to focus, as i said on the judicial appointments. dr. specht mentioned some of the crucial judicial appointments who served with great courage. my father reminded us regularly that he and the lawyers and

support staff that worked on those cases and literally risked their lives at times had it quite easy compared to their clients who would continue to try to live their lives in the community as lawyers would come and go. the clients and the judges who were trying to protect and vindicate the rights of these clients who suffered the same kinds of indig netty, who had the same rocks thrown through their windows. these judges that president eisenhower put on the courts displayed remarkable dedication and courage. let me tell you, a list of some of the decisions that one judge, dr. specht mentioned, judge frank johnson issued and as a federal district judge, at least for the first part of his

judicial career, he had a full docket of difficult cases. so on the list of decisions that i'm going to describe to you are just a small fraction of his contribution to our society. judge johnson invalidated the tuskegee alabama plan. he ordered that black persons be registered to vote if their application papers were equal in performance of the least qualified applicant. he voted the city of alabama to surrender its records to the u.s. department of justice. he required alabama to a portion state legislative district to adhere to the one man, one vote principal. >> he mandated in alabama the first statewide desegregation of public schools. i can continue through a list

here of the contributions that this one judge courageously did. it's quite clear to me that president eisenhower, with the good counsel in particular of his attorney general had no surprises in mind when he made his appointments. he knew the positions of these individuals and with whom he entrusted these powers. bill moyer described judge johnson and said that he altered forever the face of the south. burke marshall, a lot of the professors served with distinction and the kennedy justice department said that these four judges, dr. specht mentioned them including judge johnson had made as much of an imprint on american society and american law as any four judges below the supreme court had ever done in history. so if you look at these kinds of