i think about in the aspect of culture, it's not that that was hidden. emmitt till, he was hung and he was drastically horribly beaten. i'm sure they called him more than just nigger during that time. >> what do you agree particularly on? >> i didn't agree with the fact that he said he wouldn't show the book to children. >> well, here we g. no, he just said that samuel clemens said he didn't want the book shown. >> he pulled it. >> my mistake, concern. >> that's okay. here's how it goes. there's always a point of view about what young people should see and what they should not see. in your own household if you have kids, shut up, if you have kids ask your mother what's wrong being done in your house. she'll point to your wife, this is what i would do. please, will that ever end? every generation has their own idea. every teacher has an idea.

unfortunately, if he was the school librarian, he has another sensor to deal with that you as april parent or intellectual, scholar has something else. he has the principal, school board. he's got anybody that governs what teachers do coming after him in a second. no controversy. no controversy. god forbid should we ever figure out what that means? what is a life without controversy, discussion, intellectual discourse. some people are more afraid of litigation than they are of intellectual freedom. intellectual freedom for some people is dangerous. how dare you be thinking? i didn't bring you here to think. true and false. get the hell out. the idea is in here i'm at least hoping you're encouraged in the idea i trust you to come to your own conclusions. you're not supposed to be mirroring my thoughts. you're supposed to look at different ideas and think what you think. do you have to be black to be

offended by the word nigger? >> no. >> okay. well, i'm not picking on you guys, although i love you madly y. would you be offended if you're not black? let's deal with it. i heard a source that i rarely hear. please pass the microphone back here. give it to me, young girl. >> because they can have friends that it offends them. >> can you have a personal involvement with people who might be open fend bid the word? >> yeah. >> thank you. someone else. yes? microphone for you right here. is this one working? okay. go for it. >> it's not even just your friends, it's a race, humanity itself. once you bring one person back, you bring everyone back. >> martin luther king. when one of my brothers is in jail, i am in jail also. the idea is that everybody is affected by the same thing. i hope i didn't hurt my microphone when i put my hands like this. the idea is it's important to have an appreciation. when i talk to students about

race, it's not a big deal? well, is that a point of privilege? for some people it's a point every day. we talked about personal encounters because that's important to an understanding of literature. when i talk to you about when my personal experience with the "n-word." i'm old enough to have been on the edge of the civil rights movement. i never saw a nigger sign, i never saw a whites only sign. if i went to the back of the bus, it's because i wanted to, it's because i had no choice. there was no line on the bus that said black people behind this line. thanks to the work of others i ever' never experienced it. i have marched for important causes. for me, the memory of that time, even though it's not mine, we're several generations from that. as i shared another personal insight. i collect black member ra beel yeah. little dolls that show black

people as kark ka tires of themselves. big smiley faces. eating watermelon, big sausage lips. outrageous nose. wig hair. i collect that for a very specific reason. the idea is that the same reason i teach. you should not forget the past. there will come a time, i believe t that's why i collect. people will pretend it never existed. this is the more severe reason i do this is that for the last person who comes out of a concentration camp that had numbers tattooed on their arm, when they die, now all the stories of concentration camps go to the same place that the people who denied they were ever done. it's on 1rid yoerks it's in artifacts, it's not in the person telling you the real story. who then decides what's true and what's not? okay? when we think about the "n-word" it's not just a word we use to make -- that rappers used. before they came along there was

another use for the word. it's not just a word that i'm coming after a white person from using because they don't have a right to use it. what a waste of our time. the fact that we use the "n-word", it should still be debated as far as i'm concerned. if we don't understand what the word nigger meant in all of its definitions, that's one of the things we're exploring in class, then we need to figure out why. why was it so important for somebody to say you can't use n.i.g.g.e.r., have you to use "n-word", who's controlling who and why? that's what this is about. when these two classics were done, they're sadly not read a lot now, partially for some of the reasons that we've been discussing, partly because a lot of people don't even know they exist. the controversy has been so much into the titles. ujle tom's cabin. doesn't that have the nigger word in it? yeah, we can't use that.

>> the idea is that how come we can't use that in our classrooms? it might cause controversy. somebody might sue. somebody might be unhappy? you must be kidding? okay. we as intellectuals, we as explorers of literature, we as readers of literature, we have a responsibility. for those of you who are discovering the creation of literature, you have a responsibility, do you not? can you create anything you want in the world that you created in literature reflecting history or not and feel comfortable in that creation? or must you precensor yourself to decide i can't offend anybody so i can't write this thing? yeah? first part of this semester what did i do? i gave you an assignment about creating a piece of literature. gave you the freedom to write whatever you want. did anybody presentences censor yourselves? use any language you want. i said as far as i'm concerned

everyone in this classroom is an adult. that is your freedom. that is your right, yes? anybody precensor themselves? everybody wrote the language they thought was appropriate? anybody use strong language in their pieces? okay. feel funny or odd about doing that? >> in my piece -- wow. in my piece i actually had a sex scene but it wasn't like a graphic, it's just it was in there. for a little bit i felt like, should i put this in? i feel like it made it real. it was like i'm not going to just -- it's a college, too. we're in college. yeah. >> it's important that this discussion take place. some people don't understand. when you talk about censorship, are we talking about historical censorship. i remember in an open discussion in class, several people, a number of people who decided that forsake of history alone we should leave the word where it is. who people believe that when we are a talking about the

"n-word." why did you think that? >> because if we take the word away, then we're pretending that it never happened. we're trying to erase history and we can't erase history because the only way that history doesn't repeat itself is if you learn from it. >> eblgs lent. >> so if we pretend that slavery never happened, all of that, then who's to say it's not going to happen again some time in the future. >> if the memory fades, you're right, how do we know where the mistake was made. did i see your hand in the back? over here please. thank you. >> i say yes and no. i say yes because if you leave it, the kids would say since they use it, why can't i use it? because they don't understand the real meaning of it. and i say no because changing it can change our history and how we learn about our background and how we became free and got our freedom today. >> didn't have you a personal

example? you had a young person using the "n-word" and you were skernd? >> i don't remember. >> younger brother, sister, nephew? you said you heard him using the word. >> that was me. >> i knew there was more thaun one person who told the story. >> wait a minute. yeah, they said the "n-word." it's okay. here and then in the back please. >> i think anybody who's old enough to understand the plot and read the book and understand all the other words in it, comprehend all of that is probably old enough to understand the use of the "n-word" and everything that goes with it. >> so you trust the readership of this work? >> yes. >> someone who gets this book, you're not worried about them being offended? not worried about a taboo topic? >> no. i think anybody that you'd want to protect from that word, a 5-year-old or something like that, they won't make it past the second paragraph and understand what's happening in the book. >> okay. so because the book is written obviously to a certain age group you feel they'll be mature

enough to handle the material. >> yes. just like with "r" rated movies and everybody else. >> okay. somebody have their hand up in the back? which point are you addressing? >> why it shouldn't be taken out. >> please. >> i think it's going to create a domino effect. you take this out, what's saying that you can't take other words out, sensor them. you're not going to be able to protect children from everything. >> it's a slippery slope. >> today, what's going to be vulnerable tomorrow. it's a very good point. >> it shouldn't be taken out because it was his work. you can't change someone's work. >> invited "the artist" to see what should remain intact. >> exactly. >> thank you, my brother. i see two hands i have not seen before. can you pass the microphone down here? . go right ahead. >> i wanted to say that he

talked about when you wanted to write the secret paper, the personal. it's important to keep some words in there because it reflects what really happened to you. i also believe that if you read "uncle tom's cabin", if you read huckleberry finn, there were kids involved in slavery. there were kids involved in this thing. so if you take it out you're really not helping them because it could happen to them. why are we keeping them from understanding what really happened? we can educate them. there could be other ways of getting across to kids instead of, i don't want you to see what happened. they would have to deal with certain things in the future, so why not just educate them and let them find a way of dealing with it. >> you think the discussion is more important than the omission? >> yes. >> thank you. >> i think some people want to switch the word so they can avoid tough questions when children. >> please. >> i want to point out that the

"n-word" is a reference word and they tell us that there is a difference of race in this country. >> could you say that again. i want to be sure everyone heard you clearly please. >> the "n-word" is a reference word. it tells us that there is a difference of race in this country. >> thank you. i appreciate it. okay. yeah, you want to jump into the conversation? please. >> i just want to say that i feel like we underestimate children and if you just kind of look at "uncle tom's cabin", even the little girl, eva, she was smarter than her mother who was an adult. she knew and could tell that this was not okay and this is not right. so i just feel like a lot of the times we underestimate children, don't even give them the opportunity to kind of figure out what's right and what's wrong. >> the interesting thing to me about this, thank you -- give it to -- the interesting thing about this is the comparison, i don't know if we've made it in our previous conversations in class, during the 1950s there

was a series of comic books, horror comic books called a.c. comics. i absorbed them through my skin. i loved it. there were pictures of people being hacked to death with hatchets, buried alive, that was good stuff. they came under the censorship of senatorial hearings in the 1950s because they were saying this is horrible stuff. kids seeing this will have nightmares, juvenile delinquents, yeah, that worked. but here's something they miss the when you speak about kids being underestimated is that i always saw through the moral of the story. if you saw somebody kill somebody and thought they'd get away with t by the end of the story karma caught up with them and i never missed that part of the story. this is the power of literature. i trust that someone is going to read it and get the true part of the story or the more visual images or visceral images, we discuss art, the nature of the story, struck turks and drama. it is not always the most physical action, it is the

moment of highest, dramatic action that is most important. even as a young man reading, i got that. it was not the creature coming from the bog, they're shooting at him with bullets and trying to kill him. it was maybe at one point than a guy who had been done with evil. it was a more complex story. didn't have to be so much more complex i couldn't get it. devin? >> i also wanted to point out that if you look at society today, a lot has changed. like these kids know a lot, like a lot of stuff. they've been exposed to stuff like day by day. they have been exposed to new things. i really don't think that we should keep it from them. i also believe that if you change the word to slave, she said she's more offended by slave than nigger. like i said, there's always going to be something. someone is always going to be offended. they work for something and it changes history. >> i'd like to address the issue you talked about for young people.

we haven't talked about it before. hold onto it. you'll want to respond. it is this. it's that there was a point in time where children were considered to be small adults. if you live on the farm, i don't have to give you a lesson about sex education. i point you out to the yard where the animals are, okay? if you are a young person living in a one-room house and your parents are in the same bedroom, i don't have to give you sexual education. all you have to do is be awake at night. we have kiejd of changed our way about instead of kids being small adults, they are so precious, delicate. no one wants to talk about what it was like beforehand in that -- and kids all survived and no one, like, turned into a mass murderer that we know of. how we treat young people as opposed to how we treat adults. censorship is for you as well as kids. now we're not changing that just for kids. that's what we always say. we don't want to learn about sex. turn off the cable.

you don't have to worry about learning about sex ever again. the idea is that i want you guys to have an appreciation that kids are not a specialized argument. that's for you. the censorship is taken out for adults. did you have a question on my point? >> if everyone's worried about the kids like reading it and they end up changing the word, what are they going to do, make everybody throw out their old books or make them lock it up so their kids aren't going to get it? you put it on a bookshelf and the kids could easily read it. >> or go onto the, you know, net and read it. remember, we're only talking about one publisher. one publisher changing the word, okay? it's tied into your point about slippery slope, therom there. after one publisher does it maybe the social stigma becomes so large we start having everybody change it. it's a question we need to ask. thank you. >> i have one more point, but i

think it's a really shallow way of thinking that to think if you read the "adventures of huckleberry finn" or "uncle tom's cabin" that the only thing you're going to take from it is the "n-word." >> you're right. simplistic point of view. please. right where the mic was. i love that. >> in both books the word is not just used by white people but also by black people. it's not just used in a derogatory way. it's used to many to describe a general situation. >> how is that different than using slave as a descriptive word as well? >> well, slave's not necessarily how they're referring to someone. you wouldn't say to a child get off the bed, slave, something like that. >> i'm going save that example and use it for the rest of my classes. thank you. that was good. yes? >> i have a question. >> please. >> i'm wondering about huckleberry finn and jim, jim being an ex-slave. >> sure. >> calling him slave still, wouldn't that change the story.

>> he's slave jim. >> they are doing that? they are changing the word in that book to slave? >> yes. >> it completely alters the story. >> there are certain cases to change it seems superfluous. >> oh, please. give this man a microphone. >> i want back about the "n-word." >> please. >> a lot of people want to hide the word because they don't want something bad -- repeat something bad about them. >> negative part of history being brought to light. >> exactly. because a lot of people like if you say united states is the first nation in the world. it i >> but it is a nation of past slavery. >> past slavery? >> the fact that they want to hear only good stuff about them,

they want to hide the word. >> i think that's a very the idea that there's more to american history than just stories about flag waiving and winning battles. we talked about before, that the creation of the american republic could not have been done without t black slaves. it's an unfortunate fact about our history that we have to talk about. well, i think we should talk about. some people obviously do not. other points? did i see your hand up? i was just making that up. okay. here we go. right here. just calling if your face hadn't changed color, it wouldn't have been worth it. what have you got? >> i have an example that kids learn so much because my sister told me when she went to go get my nephew at school around 1:00. she saw a le i dot know the rac the other girl. like racism but one girl called her fat. she was trying to jump over the table, over the teacher's table to fight her. she was what, maybe, fourth, fifth grader. how would they learn that unless it was from their parents or

somebody. so it goes to show you that whatever the older crowd does, they will follow. if we use the word like nigger, like you're a nigger. whatever. like, what up, nigger, they're going to say that, too. they're going to pick it up and continue using it. >> it's not going anywhere. please pass the microphone down here. >> i just want to say also, you know, it's kind of going to your comment and what she said earlier about the kids. >> emulating the adults? >> yes. if kids hear that word in rap songs and hear people saying what up my -- >> n word? >> at least if they read it in a book like this, at least they'll understand what the real meaning behind it was. kid kids these days don't know what the real meaning is, because they use it throw it around and use it randomly. if maybe they understand that it

was used against their ancestors. >> the historical context is important. no, thank you. very good point. we can't read it without it. when we move a little further into theater -- hold on. it's coming down to you. we talk about theater, one of the most popular plays in american theater is a raisin in the sun, 1959. censorship already in place. they do not use the word abortion. what do they use? you have mama saying, when ruth says she's going to go see the doctor and the mama says you're going to go see that woman who does things she got no business doing. so, that was her way of saying abortionist, okay? so we have censorship in plays in one of the most popular plays in history, talking about american black families. and set the standard for so many plays after it. even there we have censorship in

place. we have to understand the times. every female in this room was born after 1973, which suggests you have never known a time when borings were not legal. 1959, they were absolutely illegal. and for anybody who had what we now call an unwanted pregnancy, it was a nightmare to behold, okay? no one wants to talk about that pretime, even though the way things are going in law now, it may come back again where abortions are illegal. you need to understand history to get a better sense of where we are. with literature, thank god, it can give us a window into history, okay? litt literature based on history. how are we all doing? everybody okay? okay. listen, i'm going to start wrapping up. i want to ask if there's any other questions we want to deal with before we go. please. >> i'm sorry. i just want to -- i just wanted

to say i was thinking when we were talking about the n word, oprah winfrey and jay-z had been on stage and both sides have different feelings about the word. >> both sides of what? >> both sides of -- both people, jay-z had said that -- i'm paraphrasing, so forgive me. >> it's okay. >> that he says it in rap because -- i don't want to say endearment, but it has a different twist on how oprah winfrey was perceiving it. and, personally, for me, i've been called a nigger and a spic in the same sentence and in no way, shape or form is that endearing, compassionate. and even if you put an a on it, an er or a or whatever. >> it stays the same. >> it stays the same. it's a negative connotation. we really need to educate -- as these women were saying, we need to educate our society on where that word comes from

historically. it's a disgusting word. >> what do you think using n word in that conversation takes place? because it's not saying -- >> say that again. i'm sorry. >> you're saying we need to educate people about the word. >> right. >> when we say the n word, we're not saying nigger. >> no. >> but certainly referring to it. >> i think if i had a child and if i was talking to them about the word nigger, i would say -- i would talk to them about where the word came from. >> would you say nigger to them or would you say n word? >> i would say nigger. >> because you want them to understand the full force and power of that word? >> whether they're interracial, biracial or whoever they are, they're from my side of the family and they're african-american, irish, too, but african-american and need to understand the connotation connection to it. >> absolutely. thank you. kevin, do you have another point, my brother? i'm messing with you. oh, please! here we go. i've started a fire.

>> take your time. >> all right. no, i do agree that -- i appall the idea of someone changing an author's work, you know. >> sure. >> i hate that, but that's -- i mean, it could be a whole money scheme. >> it could. >> but the scholar, dr. alan griffin, his reason for changing it is to preserve it. i understand when -- it's weird when i say preserve, because he's changing the text, but if i -- if you had a choice between letting the book or changing a word and letting it be read in school so it's still carried on, i would choose the latter. >> maybe then you still have a discussion as to why the word was changed? >> the book itself is a great book. that one word does not make the book. i would rather choose the latter

and still have people being able to read it than lose to in obscurity. >> great point. >> he just made a point how the book is not just about that, but i think it should still be in there. but the book could also be like for adults when they read this, it's also a very motivating story. so, not only are you getting a sense of history, but at the same time you're getting the motivation and inspiration from the book to do maybe something in the present day that you're encouraged to do after reading the book. you just see how strong the characters are and how they never give up and the hard times they go through, and especially today a lot of people are going through hard times, so it really would make society motivated. i still think it's a great novel to read. >> absolutely. thank you. >> i'm so sorry. >> you are not. >> i just wanted to share if

anyone had seen "the help." >> very good point. >> it was really hard -- i'm sorry -- for me to watch it. and when i had gotten finished watching it, my father and my mother were out to dinner. i had some tears. i was in absolute tears. >> what upset you? >> i think what upset me the most was that we, as a human race, could be so evil to another -- just another person because of a color. >> some small difference? >> of some small difference. and i had said before i've been called a nigger and a spic in the same sentence. i was working for a person that was mentally challenged and i had just hurt in my heart. i was like -- not just because he was mentally challenged but because i was trying to help him. >> and this was his response? >> this was his response and a friend of mine was working at the same place and she was angry.

like you could see it in her face, like she was livid. we both heard the word, but how we took it -- my heart just broke. your parents can only tell you so much about this world. that's just it, prejudice right now, racism, it's still here. it's behind closed doors. people will say things in certain communities. people will say things in certain groups. people will say things. but it's still here. it is absolutely heart wrenching. so, what do you do as a society, as a nation when you have children that are interracial, biracial, native american, whatever they are? what do you say to them? how do you talk to them? i mean, because their hearts are going to get broken when they hear that word. i don't care who you are. >> very good point. thank you. >> i think it's a very valid point. thank you. i wanted to bring up an interesting thing about what you

said as well. "the help" as a novel is on the bestseller list. but maybe my objection as to how popularized it is as a movie where they take a lot of stuff out is i think it misrepresents the relationship of black women to the white people who hired them in that period of time. i think it does. i definitely have a problem with things that recreate the '50s only as some kind of dream world where everything was just fine, okay? and black folks and white folks, even though there were some evil ones, everybody worked it out. no, everybody didn't. and i had already cautioned you guys about the movie "mississippi burning," because i rarely have seen a movie in my estimation, in my opinion, that so badly misrepresented the relationship between the fbi and the civil rights movement. that's all i'm going to say. i'll let you guys investigate further on your own. getting away from the libel part of that conversation. but "the help" kind of bothered me a