and put the other up for sale. visit our website at c-span.org/history for a link to the national archives website where you can hear the full 2:22 minute recording. ha herbert klein worked on everyone of richard nixon's campaigns from 1946 to 1968 and he was later appointed communications director of the executive branch from 1969 to 1973. next, in an excerpt of a longer oral history interview for the richard nixon presidential library, herbert klein reflects on the 1968 election, his role during the nixon presidency and his relationship with the former president once they both had left office. this interview airing now for the first time on television is 1:15 minutes. >> when we were in the soviet

union in 1959, after we left moscow we flew on russian airplanes and one of the interesting things was that the doctor with us was an air force and colonel i guess he was. air force officer. and when we flew from st. petersburg we flew the long way across country. one of his assignments from the air force was to take pictures of anything he saw that would look militarily out of the wind window. so these airplanes had like clothes hangers and you hang a newspaper up. that's how you read them. kgb stayed up in the front of the airplane with the vice president and with their key people that were with him and so i'm back there with the doctor. and so when he had's see

something he wanted to take a picture of, i'd stand in the aisle and see where the kgb was an see if they were in the front so he could take pictures. he got a lot of photos out of that, right behind the kgb. >> i want to ask you, you raised some questions about rosemary wilson. give me some examples. >> in 1960, she -- we'd have a scheduling committee which include don hughes, bob finch, rosemary wood and myself. and she was very key figure in all that. she also -- she didn't try to come up with new policy but she could influence nixon's view on it because she was always very frank with him.

never any conversation rosemary wood had, wasn't very direct one. so sometimes we'd have a problem and she'd be our go-between. but she was a very smart woman, totally dedicated to him. but said he had a great sense of humor, loved to dance and things like that. but her whole life was really completely devoted to richard nixon. >> how would you describe her political views? >> she was republican moderate. her view was shaped by richard nixon. her role to be able to speak up to him if she thought he was about to do something wrong in what he was doing or what he was saying.

you mentioned the fact that you thought kennedy had used issue as a religion in '63. >> kennedy said he was going to test west virginia to see whether -- how they feel against catholics. he made that sort of the key issue in west virginia and that was a state that humphrey needed to carry to stay on the campaign. -- west virginia voted by slates so most of those people were more interested in who was running for sheriff than president. sew signed up sheriffs to be

supportive of kennedy and when kennedy carried west virginia he was termed by the national press as the nixon won because of his religious views. it was probably that there were more vsheriffs than anything else. >> was there any concern after dirty fix? >> not from our point of view. perhaps it would be from humfy. i don't know. >> let's move ahead to '68. what kind of opponent was humphrey? >> we had wallace also in that race. humphrey was a very tough campaigner and when we thought we should be moving in more, he hung on. we did a poll which was unusual which was one where we would keep going to the same voters

all the time maybe about 500 and go every two and three weeks and ask where they were. it was amazing how many people switched between all three candidates. sometimes you'd turn the election campaign they might have been for wallace and they might have been for humphrey and for nixon or in some other order so that was kind of and unusual aspect of a study when people moved around thatch and eventually they deserve wallace. and we got the majority of those in our poll at that time. but humphrey told me later that he was surprised when lyndon johnson withdrew from the race, he was in mexico city at the embassy and they were watching the incident on television when he learned he was pulling out of the race so he didn't get any real help from johnson.

>> where were you the night bobby kennedy was killed? >> it was an important night for me. i was in new york and i had gone over to nbc to do a little television interview on the california election and i went back to the -- they'd arranged we all had suites at the hotel, haldeman was right below me and he'd -- my suite was very nice. so i turned the television on and i saw bobby kennedy finishing making his speech at ambassador hotel, and he went out, there was a ballroom. i'd been with richard nixon 100 times. he always left that ballroom going through the kitchen is the way you got out of it without having to shake everybody's hand in the room. so i saw him go in to the kitchen and then suddenly the shots rang out.

so i was obviously shocked and hoping he was alive and his press secretary was a friend of mine and was with him. frank. he's still a friend. so anyway, the question then in my mind was should i call nixon right away and tell him. i decided, no, it would be better to not tell him because he's going to need a lot of sharpness the next day. then i didn't call him. then after a while i decided i should call haldeman and wake him up so i decided to tell him about it. during that night, i thought wallace had been shot at. and this had happened. and if you're going to be in a campaign, you got to decide whether you're going to be afraid to be next to the candidate or not, you're going to be a fatalist. i decided if you're going to

stay in the campaign, you better forget about whatever danger there is, just figure that life will take care of itself and do what you need to do. and it's been part of my philosophy for my life since that time. but all occurred that night. >> earlier that year -- >> the other thing. what actually happened with nixon was that julie and david were watching and they decided to wake up their father so they had told him about it so he knew about it. during the middle of the night, the secret service sent agents over immediately to cart all the candidates, so by morning all the candidates were protected. >> a few months earlier, martin luther king had been killed. you had tried to get nixon to

call martin luther king in 1960. he handled the issue very differently in -- >> that was completely on his own. he acted on his own very quickly. >> to call coretta. >> yes. yes. >> nixon, election day, 1968. is he optimistic then? he's been pessimistic every other election day. most of them rather pessimistic. how he's feeling? >> he's feeling good. he feels we're going to win and we didn't have much doubt. actually it was closer than we anticipated. just before that on the sunday before, there was an interesting incident that johnson had -- can't remember exactly. johnson had announced that we were going to stop bombing i

think it was -- stop bombing north vietnam. sew was calling a halt to the war and i guess he had sent those instructions to south seat no south vietnam. so the rumor was they got ahold of south vietnam and told them they ought to go ahead. johnson got very angry because bob finch had a press conference which he announced we thought they should go ahead, continue. so on sunday morning nixon was at his suite in the hotel and bob finch and i were there and lyndon called him and started cussing out bob finch on the speaker phone because he felt that this had undercut him and it was a political move on our part and -- but i don't know --

>> on this particular issue, i don't know. >> do you know whether john mitchell was tied to her? >> i don't know. she would call me quite a bit for advice an things but she didn't call me on that. >> advice on -- >> what she was doing and what her public position ought to be. >> president is elected. do you expect to be press secretary? >> yes, i do. i had envisioned that i would set up press secretary office

modeled after jim haggerty. and i'd have -- during the campaign i decided a mistake i nad made in 1960 was traveling too much, that i needed to be running the entire public relations operation from the headquarters rather than be traveling on the airplane all the time where we'd be jumping at things that had to do, get an article out, whatever, between airplane stops. so i designated ron zeigler to be on the airplane and i had one of the first land-to-airportable telephones. it was in a briefcase which i called my magic carpet. so i could call him on that and reach him on the airplane. so what happened on the airplane was that nixon gave the approval

to john you abe press secretary. they decided they would downplay the role of the press secretary and would appoint ron zeigler to that position. and then they originally thought that they would call him the press assistant instead of press secretary at a lower pay grade. so i found out -- that was their plan on election night and when i found out they were going to use this assistant and low pay, i told them if you're going to do zeigler you're going to undercut him from the very start because the press will find out that you've done that and you have a young guy and you ha've

weaned him before even set to office. so i appointed him to press s secretary and raised his pay. i had done a lot of television during the campaign and nixon was impressed with that. so after the election, all the television on election night i did, i would be on all the networks and all every half-hour. so in the morning, when it was through, we went up to the nixon suite and we had champagne and then he and finch and halderman were going to fly to key biscayne. i was going to keep things in order there with john mitchell's son. nixon came to me on the side and said, you're just great on television. i want you to do a lot more of that for us. that's all that was said. but right away it was apparent

to me that i was not going to be the press secretary and that they were -- the way it was outlined the position, there's not something i wanted to do. i thought it would be demeaning to me to do that kind of a role. when i looked at the government i decided there was a real need to have a major communications effort because the cabinet, departments, all operated independently and no one was dealing with the editors and broadcasters around the country because the whole operation was centered on the white house press corps. so i went on "meet the press." i remember it very well because i had not done that show before and it is tough. i answered about four quick questions. then i looked over at larry spivak who could be tough on air, i looked over at commercial and he went like this, so i was relaxed. because he was a good guy off the air. when i got near the end i decided this was a time i would

challenge him so i answered a question. it was on vietnam, and said, but i'm not sure i'm going to be here to interpret this because i may leave the administration. haven't made up my mind. and when i got through with the show, haldeman called on the studio phone right away and said the president elect said you shouldn't do anything that he's going to be back on saturday and don't do anything until he has a chance to talk to you. and so i knew that i had won the battle. and so on saturday, we met at the pierre hotel and bob finch was there and haldeman ander lii outlined the conset of of the job and nixon liked it all. meanwhile, on tv the army-navy game was being played. we're all sports fans so i could hear that and when it came to

the end i knew that the usc/ucla game was going to come on and so i hin vited all these guys to my suite with my wife to come over and watch the game. i knew nixon wanted to be sure he was home to watch the game. so finally after he agreed to my concept, he said what do you want to call it? i really hadn't thought about that so i knew that i had just a few seconds because the game was going to start. and so i said director communications. that's how that title originated. >> one more question about the '68 campaign. where did the idea of the -- one more question from the '68 campaign, where did nixon's secret plan to end the war come from? >> from the press. nixon to my knowledge never said had he a secret plan. he said he thought he could solve it and his solution was to negotiate which with what he did. but he didn't have -- he did not have a secret plan and never

heard him say that he did. but the press picked up because he said he could solve it. they picked it up as a secret plan because he wouldn't comment on what it was. >> tell me about the -- during the transition, the administration wanted to announce the entire cabinet at once. >> the president -- that was the president's idea. each time we would select someone, i would -- i was in the new -- in the new -- what do you call the -- like the new eob. that's where our transition offices were. so each time he would decide on someone, i would have a press conference for that person and -- but he wanted to announce it all when he finalized it. he wanted to announce it on

television all together. and the final job that he hadn't filled was secretary of labor. meanwhile i was in detroit to meet with the head of the auto companies with a lot of the dealers, they had annual thing where they brought them in so i was talking to them and all of a sudden i got a call from the white house, said you got to be back tonight because the president's going to announce his cono frens -- he's completed. i said who did they get for secretary labor. they said george schultz. i said who's george schultz? he was dean of the school of university of chicago. so i asked the head of general motors. he said we use him all the time. anyway, i hurried back and the idea was to that all of them at one time on television which was the president's idea as far as i know. >> you're director of communications and this is a

major television event that's been organized without your participation. >> i knew we were going to do it but i didn't know when. we had talked about doing it that way. and the other part was that we would have a meeting with them all in which i would explain to them my function, what their role was in it. so that i would select the person that was to run the public affairs office of cabinet department and that person would report primarily to the cabinet officer but he would also report to me. so they had a duel dual responsibility. so after we had the television show or before we delineated my role to them. the other part of my job was to train them to be on television so that on sunday mornings i would spend my mornings trying to be sure they're making the right points that we wanted --

and to not have the departments compete with each other as to who was going to be on. so i would celebrity who was going to be on television. >> the president chose a secretary of defense who then declined. >> yeah. >> do you know about that story? >> i just know that he wanted him and he declined. the part i know is that we decide on mel layered, mel laird conferred with me a lot who he should have on his staff. i looked at it as the most difficult department we had to run. he wound up appointing someone who was a friend of mine and his as the -- for the public affairs officers and i told him that the -- because he was unskilled in pentagon language he would get cut up by them and he should retain the democrat for six

months or a year, and that was jerry freedeim. >> i'm going to jump around because we don't have much time and there is a number of issues we really should cover. want to start with one you raised. tell us about the public affairs side of the space program. you said you had some -- about the moon landing. >> oh. dick was very, very interested in the whole space thing. he let agnew be the contact with it but he had an interest in it. the day we landed on the moon i was with dhosh w-- who was the astronaut? >> neil armstrong. >> no. >> you mean the very first one. the very first one was allan shepherd. >> allan shepherd. allan shepherd. allan shepherd and i were watching in the white house and

nixon and bill rogers were watching in his office in the eob. so the idea was that we would all watch it separately, we'd go in and see the president, secretary of state, then we would go do television on it and so it was an interesting thing for me to watchal lan shepherd. as going down he would move this way, he was steering down himself to the moon. then he went over and explained it all to the president and to the secretary of state, so what had happened and what the effect was. then we went on television. only injury allan shepherd ever got operating on the moon was he jumped in the car and cut his hand on the way to the television studio. >> so when the lunar module landed -- >> nixon was watching carefully. >> watching with you drn. >> no. he was watching with bill

rogers. >> now there was a speech prepared in case the two astronauts, ael dron and armstrong, were stranded on the moon. what kind of contingencies did you have to prepare for in case this was not successful? >> i didn't have anything to do with it. >> tell us about china. when did have you an inkling that the president was thinking of a dramatic renewed approach to the people's republic of china? >> early on because i knew what he had's written in the magazine on foreign affairs and he talked about it on and off all during the administration that he was interested but i didn't know what was happening between him and henry kissinger. and what i do know is that they

were sending all kinds of -- one of the things that always amused me was that one time they decided it was time to -- kiss be ger decided what ambassador would have contact with the chinese. it was our ambassador in warsaw. he sent word next time he saw the ambassador from china to tell him to walk up to him and say i think it is about time we start talking. the ambassador just couldn't believe that president nixon would be saying anything like that so he didn't do anything. he sends the second time, he still didn't do anything. the third time kissinger sent word either do it or come back. so he walked up to the chinese ambassador and chinese was startled. as soon as he could he left the party and we learned later that

this had happened. to me he was the smartest diplomat of any i've ever met, sean lie. i thought he was really brilliant. so he got that. when henry was making his secret tip interest pakistan to bay jik,ji ji beijing, i was having a conference of editors in new orleans with southern editors and five cabinet officers and president, an idea thatdy this in different parts of the country that you'd have daytime they'd be with each cabinet officer and talk about were they related and what were they doing and then they'd finally have a meeting with the president. president that night while henry was flying talked about china. but it was during cocktail hour and nobody paid much attention, nobody wrote anything. but the usia, voice of america, picked up what nixon was saying and sent that out and when

kissinger arrived in beijing, i'm told, he presented the text of what nixon had said. >> did you know that henry kissinger was on his way? >> yeah, i did know, yeah. >> so when were you let into the -- when were you sort of read into the story? >> just right at the very end. >> what was it like to be director of communications with someone like kissinger who himself became an international celebrity? after that trip he becomes a celebrity. >> he was a celebrity before. woe date girls and that would be a big thing. >> but to what extent were you able to shape his public persona? >> part of my job was to keep him off television because the president felt that henry sort of german accent would sound too

war-like. so i was allowed to use henry to brief reporters and he would do that under ron zeigler primarily but i wouldn't let him go on television. >> but i mean he did do television. >> later. >> when. >> i don't think even until he was secretary of state. >> to what extent do you think there was a little bit of jealou jealousy? because kissinger was very effective. >> yeah. but i don't think there was jealousy. i think the president generally was concerned about a war-time accent during the vietnam war. and my observation was that the way the two of them worked was that the strategist was richard