spg captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2008 these proposals and others, though must not compete with, but be complimented by mandatory e-verify in my view. opponents have long shouted at each other in this stadium for too long. it's time that we leave the grandstands and suit up on the field of play with the mutual goal of solving the labor problems in american agricultural. agriculture is not alone in this arena, but i suggest we could provide the laboratory. mr. chairman, your hearing shows this progress. new bills indicate interest. let's embrace this opportunity by considering a multitude of ideas. as a component of guestworker reform, i suggested with your

senate subcommittee counterparts last fall a penalty-based work authorization permit, following a limited sign up period, those who come forward would be subjected to the enhanced oversight and stiff penalties, including a substantial monetary penalty, a biometrically secured agriculture only permit, immediate deportation for violations of permit requirements, forfeiture of previously said social security benefits, waiver of future social security benefits withholdings with both portions being dedicated to a require market-pla market-based health insurance product and fierce employer sanctions immediately following the end of the signup period. mr. chairman, this puzzle has many pieces in the economy of your hearing does not allow it for each to be thoroughly examined. i back up with my plea with more detail in my written comments and the 189-page document that we were required to submit to our legislature just this past month. my goal is to stretch the balloon in such a way that it

will not return to its current shape because the current status quo is unacceptable. many retailers feature a green, red, orange and yellow bell pepper 24/7. in georgia we can grow these varieties from june to october, yet without a 21st century guestworker program that includes many of the initiatives that are contained in pending legislation, an idea similar to those that i discussed, i see no way for farmers to meet the future consumer demand with domestically produced peppers and other agricultural products. we need a legally documented workforce and a reliable management system to ensure integrity. i would be delighted if this could be achieved by neighbors hiring unemployed neighbors. farmers tell me i'll hire drug free, soak, reliable skilled farm workers in my community. please tell me where i can find them. i laud the aspirations but i loath to tell you it escapes reality. i ask as respectfully i know

how, to act with haste. many think this is impossible in 2012. but mr. chairman, i'm prepared to work with any member who prove the critics wrong. american farm family, our domestic system needs our help now. thank you, god bless you for what you do. >> thank you, mr. black. mr. wenger. >> good morning, chairman smith and ranking members and distinguished members of the committee. i'm here today because farmers and ranchers across the nation are in critical need of a legal work force to cultivate and harvest our crops and tend our livestock. in california alone we rely on 400,000 employees during peak season. the agriculture work force consists of 1.83 million hired workers. some have estimated that as much as 50% to 7% of the hired workers are not authorized to work in the united states. agricultural is a very diverse industry. different regions produce different commodities with widely varying weather, cultivation and harvest times. these needs cannot be addressed

with a one-sized fits all single program solution. it is not a problem confined to agriculture in the northeast, southern border states or western states. this is not just a problem for large farmers. according to the united states department of agriculture, 60% of hired farm labor is hired by farms with annual sales less than $1 million. last year this committee approved a bill to make e-verify mandatory for all employers regardless of size or industry, however, it offered no solution to address the unique challenges that a national e-verify mandate will create for agricultural. e-verify without a workable way to ensure a legal work force will send american agriculture production and the additional off-farm jobs created by it to other countries. farmers throughout the united states have tried innovative solutions to secure a domestic labor force. all have failed. not because we don't pay enough or offer enough benefits, rather americans through habit and education have progressed beyond agriculture to other occupations.

americans no longer have the desire for agricultural work. agricultural is a lifestyle occupation. many farmers see their children move into other occupations. i can speak from experience with three sons. two are home farming with me and one has decided to move on to other things. agriculture needs a timely solution that fills the gap between the currently legally authorized workforce and the agricultural needs of the nation. it is estimated that agriculture threes between 900,000 and 1.2 million unauthorized workers with special skills and abilities. any solution must address the following. first, a workable solution must deal with the industry's ongoing need for a future workforce, because much agricultural work is seasonal, intermittent and demanding, agriculturingagricul attract a domestic workforce. let me be clear, we strongly support an overhaul to help those who have been able to utilize it. i respectfully request that the study released by the national

council of agriculture employers illustrating the major flaws of the h2a program be submitted into the record. even if h2a could be substantially improved reform of that program alone cannot stabilize the foreign labor situation. >> without objection, that report will be entered into the record. >> yep, good, thank you. it is impossible for the program to scale up quickly from admitting 50,000 to 60,000 workers to admitting the larger numbers agriculture will need. an example in texas, about 100,000 workers currently fill a a need of 150,000 farm jobs each year. in 2009, only 2,807 farm jobs in texas were certified for h2a program, meaning the program fills 1.8% of the texas needs, this according to the texas department of labor. to ensure the industry a future work force, we need a model that is more flexible, scalable and market oriented. congress lungren is offering a

visa for agricultural workers. it requires a biometric visa, criminal background check, incentives for workers to abide by the visas and return home when the work is done. the closer a new program comes to replicating the way, the farm force moves now among employers and crops the more likely it will meet the industry's needs. to ensure programs actually work it will likely need to beed amrpted by the united states department offin agriculture instead of the department of labor, which has a long history of implementing the h2a program. a workable program may meet the needs of the dairy and livestock industries. these operations have difficulty finding workers and their need is year-round. any solution must avoid needless disruptions of the industry and must accommodate the large experienced labor force currently within our industry. any solution must deal on a practical and humane way with current workers. the most important features of a solution for our industry will be to recognize that many of our workforce want and need

the ability to come to the united states and work on the farms and ranches and return to their home country. the consequences of getting it wrong are serious. make no mistake, to lose the ability to feed our nation and depend upon foreign produced food is a national security issue. imposing ae-verify mandate and not creating a reliable workforce for agriculture will endanger america's food supply currently grown in america. the united states department of agriculture stats show that foreign producers are gaining market share in the united states. fruit and vegetable imports from china have increased over 555%. in conclusion i have shared with you a snaphot of what is taking place across america. i urge you to craft a solution with foorm farmers in america t economicically practice and addresses the impact to address the problem and recognizes the value of the people who work for us and feed our nation. i'll be happy to answer any questions later. >> thank you very much, mr. wenger. mr. wicker. >> thank you.

good morning. i'm lee wicker. deputy director of knock knock growers' association. thank you for holding the hearing on the critical issue of labor intensive agricultural. this is the largest state's 2a program user, nca has over 700 farmer workers that will employ thousands of u.s. workers in 2012. i'm proud of the farmer workers of ncga because they refused to surrender to the conventional wisdom that it's impossible to dry in with our nation's labor, immigration and work and protection laws. instead, the farmers and workers of ncga committed themselves to compliance. with the dogged determination of the american farmer, all labor intensive agricultural can comply, compete, survive and thrive if the federal government would institute common sense agricultural labor policy reforms. americans are blessed to enjoy a safe, abundant and affordable food supply, produced on our nation's farms. so fortunate, many americans

never give a second thought to the food they consume and where it comes from or what life could be like if our food security and independence was lost. we must never take farmers, farm workers or food supply for granted. in order to continue to deliver fresh food to the consumer, american farmers need a reasonable, rational, predictable and workable guestworker program that supplies a legal, available and fairly compensated farm workforce. a program that works is critical if our nation intends to secure the viability of our farms. especially those that grow fresh fruits and vegetables. in previous testimony before this committee i described in detail the most onerous and chronic problems with h2a. the current program is costly, unpredictable and administratively flawed. it is too expensive and cumbersome. most farmers lack confidence that the federal agencies running the program will meet thash mandated obligations on

time, even when the farmers fulfill their responsibilities perfectly and well in advance of the deadlines. my prior testimony, i also recommended practical and sustainable solutions that ag employers across the nation agree will give farmers and farm workers confidence that the ag guestworker program can work, be predictable and treat all parties fairly. the solutions include a rational wage rate linked to the highest of flsa or state minimum wage, plus 10% to 15%. to help preclude wage stagnation, binding medication and arbitration, the fast track of worker grievances and avoid costly lawsuits, allow farmers and workers to share the benefits of the program to also share the fixed cost, streamline the overly bureaucratic processes that discourage participation, allow access to the program to encourage wider participation and provide easy to understand processes for farmers and farm workers to comply with immigration law. in addition, these reforms must

include clear administrative -- sorry, clear statutory language that explicitly defines the role and reach of the administrative agency, so that farmers are not continuing whip-sawed and subjected to different legal interpretations and regulations with every executive branch change. legislation to reform the agricultural guestworker program has been introduced in the house and senate in this congress by members from both political parties. it is clear there is a bipartisan political agreement that the current program is badly in need of reform. chairman smith's ag guestworker measure, the american specialty agriculture act adopts what is sought for by ag employers and would be a substantial improvement over the program. for that reason we endorsed the chairman's bill last fall. some of the other proposals would make significant proposals. the barn act introduced by representative kingston and the

act introduced by senator ch chambliss include the improvements that agriculture employers suggest or needed. other proposals scan the program for specific areas like dairy and sheep and goat herding. finally, there is the current version of the more than 12-year-old ag jobs about thal seeks to legalize the current undocumented workforce without adding a single worker to an already inadequate supply and without creating a sustainable and guestworker program for the future. rather than solve the problems with the current ag job guestworker program, ag jobs will make it worse. ag jobs will not solve any hours. many ag groups supported the proposal in the past are not supporting it now. focus and deliberate work to i applaud the committee for the focus and deliberate work to solve the crisis. your continued focus on this issue is critical. unfortunately, the issue of farm labor has become linked to the broader immigration debate and the agriculture industry is a

political hostage. it is clear that amnesty alone for undocumented workers did not work well for farmers after it was granted in '86. it will not solve the problems now or in the years ahead. only a work wabl and predictable guestworker program will ensure that farmers continue to plant and harvest crops and provide wholesome food for our nation. this congress has an obligation to fix this problem or we will continue to lose our food production to foreign competitors. farmers and farm workers want to comply with labor and immigration laws. now is the time for congress to take action so that they can. thank you very much. i look very much for your time. >> thank you very much, mr. wicker. mr. goldstein. >> mr. chairman and members, thank you for the opportunity to testify about agriculture guest worker programs. our agriculture labor system is unsustainable and unfair to farm workers and their families. nation's immigration system is broken. our labor laws are

discriminating against farm workers and many practices of the employers are deficient. the resulting turnover in the farm labor force means in that more than one-half of the 2 million seasonal farm workers lack authorized immigration status. the presence of undocumented workers depresses wages for all workers. including the roughly 700,000 u.s. citizens and lawful immigrants in agricultural. undocumented workers are not leaving and they are needed. to help agriculture thrive, we need a program that allows undocumented workers to earn legal immigration status. some members of congress have proposed new agriculture guest worker programs, but it makes no sense to bring in thousands of guest workers when there are over 1 million undocumented form workers in addition to u.s. citizens and documented immigrants. in decision the h2a program is available and has no limit on the number of guestworkers that may be brought in annually. our recent report, no way to treat a guest, shows that the

h2a program contains modest labor protections but it is fundamentally flawed and rife with abuses with u.s. and foreign workers. i ask it be included in the record. >> without objection. >> many employers prefer guest workers because they are more vulnerable than immigrants and citizens for several reasons. h2a workers may work for the employer that obtain their visa, must leave the country when the job ends and hopes they get another visa the following year. they never earn the opportunity to become permanent immigrants no matter how much seasons they work here. to pay recruitment fees and travel costs h2a workers bother money that must be repaid. guest workers will toil to the limits of human endurance at low wages, when u.s. workers seek more sustainable productivity requirements. an employer does not pay social security or unemployment tax on guest worker wages, but must do so on u.s. workers wages. h2a workers are excluded from the agriculture worker protection act and while recruiting in foreign countries,

employers select on age and gender, which is illegal in the united states. these factors have led h2a employers to discourage workers from applying to h2a jobs and subject them to unfair working conditions to cause them to quit or be fired. we commend secretary solis to restoring the h2a protections at the bush administration unconscionably removed. these protections evolved over many years and were issued by conservative president ronald reagan. for example the principal wage protection requires h2a employers to recruit u.s. workers. the bush formula, like some recent legislation proposals, set most h2a wages at the average of the lowest paid one-third of farm workers in a local area, cutting $1 to $2 off an hour off of wages for thousands of u.s. and h2a workers.

we commend the increasing oversight of applications which has led to the rejection of unlawful job terms that discourage u.s. workers from applying for h2a jobs. nonetheless, violations of program requirements are rampant harming both u.s. and h2a workers. our report recommends strengthening protections and enforcement. some growers are audaciously complaining that a deal delays processing the applications even though they caused the delay by submitting illegal job terms or incomplete applications. complaints to be addressed by provides more resources to the agencies to process applications and visas. representatives lundgren, kingston and smith have introduced guest worker bills to slash wage rates and reduce worker protections and minimize government oversight and shift responsibility to the department of agriculture which has no expertise administering immigration or labor laws. their proposals would have taxpayers pay for a costly guest worker program under which

employers would bring in hundreds of thousands of additional foreign workers, despite an adequate supply of farm workers and undocumented farm workers. we strongly oppose the bills for the harm it would inflict on u.s. and foreign workers. large scale guest worker programs are helpful to american values. they take advantage of the foreign workers by depriving them of economic freedom and political representation. farm workers are human beings, not imported commodities. our immigration system is not a set of trade rules. it reveals to the world our nation's values. there are sensible policy solutions to provide the nation's kagricultural sector with the labor force, treat farm workers fairly and ensure a safe food supply. congress should end discrimination against fund labor laws. fund labor law enforcement over a level playing field and encourage employers to offer job terms that attract and retain productive farm workers. most importantly, congress should provide current

undocumented farm workers with an opportunity to earn permanent immigration status and its chance to pursue the american dream. thank you for this opportunity. >> thank you, mr. goldstein. i thank all of you for your testimony. at this time, we will move into questions by the panel. since there are not a lot of us here, we will probably do several rounds if other members wish to stick around. i'll start with five minutes. first of all, mr. goldstein, you indicated that my proposal, along with other proposals would slash wage rates. if you give workers market mobility, that is they are not tied to a particular employer, but can seek employment in agriculture, among the different employers, wouldn't that tend to give them an ability to benefit from wages? that, i've heard a complaint about our proposal from some, very, very few farmers who said, you mean i'd have to compete with the farmer down the street

for these employees and i might have to pay them 350 cents more an hour than the other? how does that slash wage rates? [ inaudible ] >> your mike, please, thank you. >> under guest worker programs, what happens is the program tends to happen under the h2a program as well, is because the workers are in a restricted non-immigrant status, they really don't have much bargaining power, and so -- >> could i ask you to specifically refer to the question i have? i specifically said it would be different than the brasera program, different than the h2 program in that they would have job market mobility. yes, they would be restricted to agriculture, but within agriculture, they would be able to seek employment and if, in fact, they felt they were mistreated or not paid enough, they could seek employment from another farmer. i would like you to talk about that specific part of it. i have been criticized by some saying you don't tie them to a

particular employer. >> my understanding is that the mobility would be between employers that enroll in the guest worker program. growers that enroll set up recruitment systems to bring in workers. if a worker at one grower wanted to shift to another, i don't see why most of the growers would bring on that work when they set up a recruitment system to get a supply of workers on temporary visas. we don't view that mobility as similar to the mobility people have in the usual marketplace for labor. >> right, i appreciate that. i wish you would at least concede what we have in our bill to talk about that. i think it is illogical to suggest that giving them increased mobility in the market in which they are allowed to come into the united states would not have an tendency to increase wages. i just think that's logically inconsistent. so if you won't even look at that, i appreciate it. mr. wenger in your testimony you talked about the number of foreign jobs i believe it was in new york.

don't we have a peak season of around 400,000 in california? >> yes. >> and how many of those were certified for h2a in recent year, if you have that number? >> i don't have the exact number, but less than 2%. i could get that number for you, but it's insignificant in the fact of what our overall demand is. a lot of our growers, we have some that are in the strawberry plant business. they can utilize some of the rural areas h2a workers where they need larger numbers of people in the valley and it doesn't work so they need to use more seasonal type of labor. speaking just quickly to your other answer, last year, a neighbor of mine had cherries to harvest. rain was coming in. he would have lost his crop. the word went out immediately saying i need workers and a lot of those workers were working in vineyards, doing other things, tying grapevines, things that weren't so critical to be done before the weather.

when the word went out, he paid probably a little bit more for the labor. he had the labor. he brought in vans and filled with cherries. he was able to salvage his crop, and he could not have done that if he didn't have the flexibility to find folks. a good majority of those did not have legal documents? absolutely. your program would allow for that movement, and between folks, and this is so critical when we're talking about seasonal fruit and vegetable production and weather-related instances coming in, so we need that mobility. >> in the statement that maureen torrey of new york submitted to us, and i have it in the record, she's the owner of torrey farms, a 12th generation farm. two and a half years ago, they took 1,000 acres of fresh market production and instead planted corn and wheat because they weren't sure how they would get their labor commitment. what did that mean? that meant their payroll for 1,000 acres of onions of $2.5 million for 50 people year round

was replaced by payroll for 1,000 acres of corn for $70,000 per year covering two employees. how that benefits the employee, i do not understand. >> congressman, for the record, we do have last year, 400,000 hired farm and ranch workers, only 3,503 farm jobs were certified h2a. >> i don't want you to state under oath exactly what it is. would you say it is fair to suggest that over half of the workforce in the ag fields in california is here without benefit of legal papers? >> we're certainly afraid that at least 50% or -- >> would you believe that is true nationwide? >> yes. >> my time is up. colleague from california. >> thank you very much. thanks to all of the witnesses for your testimony. mr. wenger, from the perspective of california, you have given

your testimony that the e-verify program, a mandatory e-verify program without a solution for the current workforce would be disastrous, and i have believed the same thing. you've also said as to solutions that it has been and will be impossible to find and deport the current unauthorized farm work force and replace it with new workers properly authorized under a new visa program or a combination program and improved h2a. any solution you have said must deal somehow in practice and humane way with the current workforce. why do you think it's important to replace them with the workers? >> they just aren't there. if you were to take the folks who are here and you find out who they are through the e-verify program and if you're

to remove them to the desert island and all of a sudden had this big vacuum of need, there wouldn't be adequate labor supply even in mexico to fill those jobs. i want to also say these aren't unskilled jobs. a lot of the folks that are doing this work that have been here, they're driving pieces of equipment that are worth more than the most expensive mercedes. i mean they are highly skilled people that understand what they are doing, so it is paramount that we find a way to find those who are already here that don't have legal documentation, to be able to go through some system to get that legal credential, that w visa to allow them to be able to work here. >> in talking about the skill set, my district that i represent in california is pretty urban, but we have some agricultural activity as well. especially in the south part of our county. and i remember a number of years ago when i was in local government visiting with the

farmers who were growing mushrooms and visiting with the mushroom cutters. incredibly skilled work. i think at that time, that was, you know, 20 years ago they were paying $20 an hour to those people cutting and i couldn't have done it. can you describe some of the other kind of skilled work. we talk about this as unskilled labor, but i'm wondering if you could describe the kind of skills that are necessary and that are possessed by the current workforce and why it might be very difficult to replace those skills with an entirely new workforce. >> certainly. for a lot of our commodities in california but throughout the country, they're being much more mechanized and so you have to have a skill set that takes years and years to try to learn that. if you operate this machinery in an effective and safe manner, but today for such a demand for locally produced food, what you're seeing in your area,

we're seeing with urban agricultural throughout california, talking to some of my contemporaries and other state farm bureaus. what we are seeing throughout this country, folks going for more of the commodity areas and putting a certain amount of production into seasonal fruit and vegetable production and now they're figuring out we need somebody to have that hand/eye coordination that understands how to pick the fruit and harvest the vegetables at the right time. whether it's picking strawberries, if you don't pick a strawberry at the right time, it is either overly ripe and it will wreck everything else as it per ishz in the basket, the other strawberries around it, you have to pick it at the ripeness at the right time. can't be too green. can't be overripe. it takes the hand/eye coordination that takes years to learn, whether it's a plum, whether it's a peach. all the things that want our kids and grandkids to eat, talking about more fresh fruits and vegetables. and that is a highly skilled and you're exactly right, congressman lofgren. we have one of the board members they do plums and peaches.