>> well i'll begin by expressing my disappointment that we didn't receive a response from the white house to the request to have gung ha meet -- geng he meet with the president. while we are grateful that assistant secretary posner at the state department has been repeatedly and persuasively relentless himself, the only with a that we're going to see movement on these cases is by having the highest level government officials engage directly with the chinese government. and i would submit we have here today, in the audience, dr. yan li, someone who i worked with for five years. >> if he could stand and be

recognized. >> congressman smith was deeply engaged in his case. the way he got out was president bush raised the case twice to hu jintao, secretary rice raised it twice, secretary powell raised it once and the u.s. government had to be relentless. without that kind of direct engagement, we are not going to see the release of people. i would be all for quiet diplomacy if it worked. if it was working, wouldn't feel the need to speak out in the same way. but clearly, we need to strange our strategies. >> mr. fu or li? >> i agree with mr. chairman, your overall assessment. but the past three years, the field so-called quiet diplomacy, the indifference diplomacy. obviously this administration took the human rights and especially religious freedom on the back seat from day one.

and you know, after two years of, of after two years in power, there was not the ambassador at large for the international religious freedom was not even appointed. and the first official visit of hers, was not really met with even a courtesy assistance. i think from the chinese government and i suspect the state department or the white house, i think had, had done anything to protect, to protest this insult. i think by refusing presidential appointee, ambassador to visit

her counterpart in china. i think this is almost a self-humiliating attitude, certainly emboldened the dictators persecution. and indirectly, increasing their action against the human rights abuses in china. [ speaking foreign language ]

[ speaking foreign langu] >> for past few years, the persecution of my husband, gao zhisheng, is getting worse and worse and i strongly request a meeting with high-level leaders in the united states government. and i feel this is very important because gao zhisheng's case is critical and is critical for breaking through the current situations, because like last year, china arrests many human rights lawyers. and actually the authority told him have you heard of gao zhisheng? you know, you probably know him, so what. you know, his wife, you know her?

she probably, so what, we can still make gao zhisheng disappear. we have enough money. that's what the local authority tell the human rights lawyer that was being arrested. [ speaking foreign language ] >> right now it's very difficult for us to get any lawyers to help gao zhisheng even if we say we are willing to pay. but no lawyers can take the case. [ speaking foreign language ] >> now a days the human rights lawyer in china all pay close attention to gao zhisheng's case, because they know if this case can have any improvement, then the situation may be different. [ speaking foreign language ] >> i wish that i can have an appointment with the leaders in the states so we can move this

case forward. >> you have tried, but they've not gotten back to you, including vice president biden? [ speaking foreign language ] >> yes, we tried to contact them through lawyers, but no response yet. >> that frankly is -- >> let me clarify, we did hear back from the state department, the request was to secretary clinton. we were offered a meeting with assistant secretary posner, we've now been offered a meeting with undersecretary otierno, which we'll be happy to take. we sent the request to the scheduler and numerous staff search times and got no response at all. not even a sorry, we can't meet you. >> that's very disappointing, to say the least. i would say when you juxtapose that with the vice president's statement in china, when talking about the horrific one child per couple and its reliance on forced abortion and he said, i'm not going to

policy, and then sent out an email to some, some group suggesting that he's not really for the policy. but the damage was done. words do matter and meeting with individuals and getting fully informed about the plight of the wives and their husbands, that should have been a meeting that was, that was sought after by the vice president and the president's office. not declined. i would like to now yield to chairman frank wolfe. >> i thank you, mr. smith. >> i think this administration has been a total failure. and quite frankly, i think all the groups around this country -- >> should know this and not pretend it is not true. the coptic christians in egypt should know this administration has failed them. iraqi and syrian, chaldean christians should know this administration has failed them.

the vietnamese in vietnam, both buddhists and catholic ought to know this administration has failed them. and of course, the catholic bishops in china and the protestant house house jewish leaders in china should know that the administration has failed them. and the dalai lama should know that this administration has failed them. 11, 11 now buddhist monks and nuns have set themselves aflame. but i want to bring it back to this. and i did not know that you had made a request, i would like to ask both of the wives if they would say publicly, i see the media here looking. what would you say, because there's still an opportunity to meet after the vice president from china leaves. what would you say if you had an opportunity to meet with president obama and shame on

them both if they do not meet. shame on them both if they do not meet. you know that president reagan would have met with you. you know that president clinton would have met with you. you know president bush would have met with you. you know president jimmy carter would have met with you. so shame on them if they do. but maybe they won't. this may be the only opportunity. what would both of the wives want to say if they were talking to president? [ speaking foreign language ] >> if i have the opportunity to meet president obama and the vice president biden, i would tell him my husband, gao zhisheng, is good people. and he always do good deeds.

and what he has done in china is actually abide with the world standard, international standards, so why in china he has to be persecuted? why he had to be suffering from all kinds of tortures. please help release him immediately. >> if i have an opportunity to say president obama, i want to say my husband is innocent. because of love he did some things. but it's, it's the way to show how he loves this country.

so please for help. >> thank you. >> thank you. let me ask, witnesses, if there's anything further, mr. genser, if you would perhaps touch on what the u.n. is doing or not doing? the u.s. does play the lead. but certainly the european parliament and other parliaments and lawmakers and leaders ought to be raising their voices on behalf of the disappeared and the persecuted leaders of the human rights movement in china. >> sure, let me say briefly. the u.n. is engaging on a number of key cases. the high commissioner for human rights is trying to go to china. it seems unlikely it's going to happen before the leadership transition. but clearly she should go and needs to raise her voice. she has to her credit, raised her voice loudly on gao's case and a number of other cases. but the u.n. frankly needs to do a lot more. gao's case has nottgotten a lot

attention internationally. we've raised the case in the european parliament, all around the world in a lot of different contexts, there's a lot of support for gao zhisheng. but i want to underscore that geng he and her children live in the united states now. they have protection from the united states. this gives this case in particular, a special connection to our country. we have given them asylum status in the united states. gao himself has residual asylum status based on his family's status. if we can reappear him and if he's willing to go, he could immediately come to be free in this country and to live his life with his family. so we need the united states to recognize the special responsibility that we have taken on to our great credit, as a country, to gao zhisheng and his family. and to raise this case at the highest levels. the last thing i will note is my biggest fear about the president and vice president or secretary of state not meeting gao, gao's wife, geng he, is not

exclusively about the optics of that meeting taking place and the message that would send to the chinese government, though that is very important. my biggest fear is that the chinese government has rebeatedly and publicly lied about what's going on with gao zhisheng and other countries around the world have not publicly responded by saying, you are lying. you are not telling the truth. and we have to speak truth to power and we have to tell the world what is really happening with this person's situation. and so it is not sufficient in my view, to have a meeting with the assistant secretary at the state department to see the kind of progress we want to see on this kind of case. >> mr. fu? pastor fu? >> before vice president xi's visit, i was invited with a few ngo leaders, i had a meeting with ambassador locke of the

state department. on the one hand i was glad to hear that he had made some very straightforward effort to pursue gao's whereabouts, when he was missing. but on the other hand, i hope that the united states embassy or consulate can send a diplomat, if not the ambassador himself, to go to the shia prison and to verify or you know, ask the chinese government to accept like representative from the international red cross. and the process is, we don't know whether he's alive or not. and i think the policy of just diplomatic courtesy or you know, informality cannot work any

more. and i remembered in 2005, when one of the pastors in beijing, past orwau, was about to be sentenced to 15 years in prison for distributing bibles, according to lawyer who is had knowledge with the court judge. it was when that news came out and i communicated with the national security council of the bush administration, and president bush was on the way to visit beijing. and on his stop at tokyo, he made a pointed speech and specifically mentioning about that case. and you know what, later of course attorney gao zhisheng was one of pastor's attorney at the time and he was sentenced to three years imprisonment instead. i think it, it's time, yeah, to break the silence.

i give you one illustration of i think the wrong signal by the administration especially the president has said. when he visited china, that one morning i received a phone call from a few human rights lawyers, they said they heard that the president is waiting to meet with them. so they were waiting outside the embassy compound. so i was on the phone with consulate general or deputy general, consulate, counselor in the u.s. embassy. and coordinating, telling him where they are. and the consulate asked me to just wait and call back. and i, i was waiting for half an hour later. the instead of the, the u.s. consulate or any coming out to

visit them, this group of human rights lawyers, including attorney and leader who was later kidnapped and tortured. they were met with over 200 chinese military police. and they were rounded up and the president chose to visit the great wall. and i was told by the counselor later that because there's no guarantee for security for the president's security. he could not meet with these human rights lawyers outside the compound of the u.s. embassy. i think what a signal you want to send to the chinese dictators, to these oppressors. i think that certainly emboldened them. and made the human rights record worse. >> i would just point out pastor fu, that the signals of indifference and really being uninformed about how powerful,

if used the the leverage and the voice of the president, the vice president, the secretary of state, could actually be in getting people out of prison who are suffering unjustly. i remember when secretary of state was en route to beijing or to china for her first visit. she says, i'm not going to allow human rights to interfere with peddling u.s. debt and global climate change. that threw the dissidents under the bus. and any amount of reparrirative statements that might be made later doesn't undo the damage in terms of what is really in the heart. my hope springs eternal that this administration will see that they are doing the cause of democracy and the individuals who suffer for it, a grave injustice by its indifference and wrong signals, sending. and i would ask the question, how will china ever matriculate from dictatorship to democracy, if all of the lawyers like gao zhisheng and others who might go that route, but it does have a

chilling effect on what they might do if they know that you're going to be met with torture and disappearance and the same with ms. li and her husband. the intellectintellectuals, the professors, knowing her, too, we need to stand in solidarity with the oppressed, not the oppressor, and regrettably, we're doing just the opposite. i would like to ask our distinguished witnesses, starting with you, pastor fu, if you have any final comments and leave the final words to our two distinguished wives who are here. very, very strong and brave women and we thank them especially for their testimony. pastor fu? anything? >> i think real change will depend on two factors. the most important factor is of course from inside china, i think despite the increasing persecution and perhaps the

worst in two decades, in two decades in the last year. we still are hopeful. we are still seeing some signs of, it's not because of the any relaxation of the regime, but because of the growing rise of awareness and consciousness by the chinese people. look at what had happened to that village in the province and 50,000 people, when they were united and they were able to win the fight at least temporarily, they were allowed to have their first freely and democratic election and elect their own leaders in that 50,000 peep village. it's a small step. it's a baby step, but it shows that people's power. i think

hundreds of,000s of chinese petitioners despite the black jails and a arbitrary arrests they gathered and went to the leaders in beijing and hundreds of house church members like the beijing church in the past, almost, yeah, in the past ten months since april of last year, every sunday, every sunday in the capitol city of beijing, there are arrests of 20 to 100 members of this church were arrested for simply going outdoors for worships and all the leaders and all their five elders had been under house arrest without any freedom of movement. but the members are still going there, every sunday. knowing that they are going to

be arrested. i think these are the hopeful signs we should count on, of course, the secondary of the contribution for china's democracy and freedom is outside, sister-in-lwe need the aid, the people will be encouraged and their morale would be greatly boasted if they hear if the united states of america and tell the chinese dictators that clearly and unwaiveringly that we are with you. we are with the persecuted instead of with the persecutors. >> thank you. >> i want to make three brief closing comments first is to emphasize a point that you made earlier. this is not a partisan

issue, there's strong bipartisan support to keep pressure on the chinese government to improve human rights in the country. this is a core value of this country, and for us as a country, we need to stay true to our fundamental values. and i want to say to the administration, there's never a wrong time to do the right thing. and frankly it's not late -- results and not by effort. i don't care how hard any administration tries, i care what they achieve. regardless of efforts being made, the results are not there yet. at the end of the day, you need to change your

tact particulars if you want results, because this is not working. i want to thank you for your tremendous leadership on the congress, not just on china but results tarnd world, it's a pleasure to work with you and yours ofs, you to tremendous leadership on all the issues. it's prshted by -- it's appreciated by human rights abuses. we may be not perfect as a nation and we have flaws and problems that we need to work on, but we cannot forget where we come from and both of you deserve huge credit for your on going efforts over the years. >> thank you ms. lee. >> i speak in chinese. [ spe

>> translator: i feel the chinese government is a vast interest group. even though they may realize how huge the problems they are confronted with, it is a difficulty for them to overcome these problems and make amends. therefore in order to change china it calls for more and more people to be able to stand up and speak out. as was pointed out by my husband before he was in put jail, the

minds have is to be explored and have to be treaded on for them to explode. if you don't test the field you will never know the border line and you'll never know how chinese democracy will emerge and whether or not china can have democracy. therefore it calls on common efforts made by all of us as was pointed out in my testimony today, the united states of america plays an extremely important role in all of this. i very much hope that

united states of america will help china to make amends and to make a change. thanks. [ speaking chinese ] >> translator: the suffering of my husband and my family

actually show cased a wide-spread problem of human rights in china and i repeatedly requested to meet with the highest leaders in the united states, president obama, vice president biden and secretary clinton and i hope to meet with them. i hope a delegation can be sent to verify whether he is alive or not and he really hope that the highest levels of leaders can pressure china to release him unconditionally to our family can reunite. thanks.

i firmly believe that 1.3 billion chinese people do not have the basic human rights right and if this continues in china the whole human civilization will not have a perfect civilization, so i hope that whole western world and the civilized work can give more support to the china's human rights situation, can support