arizona. well, he was born in rockford, illinois. he went on to serve ten terms in the u.s. house of representatives. and he ran for president in 1980 first as a republican and then as a third party contender. he participated in one debate with reagan in 1980. he began teaching law and speaking out about third party politics in this country. john anderson is 90 years old today. happy birthday to him. we talked to him years ago about the challenges of being an independent. >> i found in the spring of 1980 in march, in april, there were national polls showing that between 25% and 30% of the american people said yes we would consider voting for an independent candidate in 1980. that was because of the dissatisfaction at that point

with the incumbent jimmy carter and also on the republican side with ronald reagan. he was simply too conservative in the minds of many people for the office. so i started from that benchmark. but then as the spring wore on and more particularly as july and august brought the conventions of the two major parties, the media spotlight swung so complete in the direction first of all of the hoopla that went on at the four or five-day conventions in detroit or new york of the two parties that the independent candidate simply got lost in the shuffle. it was very hard to keep reminding people that yes, despite the conventions and what's going on in the two major parties there is another candidacy out there. then second, when i could not get carter to appear in a debate where i was on the platform -- i

had one debate with ronald reagan in baltimore. but after that, i was unable to get into any additional debates and more particularly when the last debate was held about ten days before the election, carter finally agreed and the voters agreed they would stage a two-person debate without me. then really i was dealt out of the picture conclusively. on 100 million television sets, there was framed the images of two men. two candidates. and it was very hard for people to seemingly comprehend that there was another candidate in the race. so these are some of the problems i think perot will have to contend with. >> referring to ross perot's bid. and another example of what's available on the c-span video

library. all programming to the mid-1980s. click on video library. john anderson who was the founder of fair vote. calling for the honest election of candidates. he was for the reform party back in 2000. and gerald ford said this about john anderson. he is the smartest guy in congress, but he insists on voting his conscience instead of party. john anderson who is 90 years old today. we will continue the conversation as we always do tomorrow morning on c-span's "washington journal" 4:00 on the west coast. a chance to call in with questions for congressman barney frank. and the ranking member former chair of the financial houses committee. and two coauthors of a book called "the tea party patriot: the second american revolution." we'll take your calls about the

tea party and its role in politics. tune in tomorrow. thanks for joining us on this wednesday. i hope you enjoy the rest of your evening. ♪ in a few moments, more about the administration's 2013 budget request in a hearing with treasury secretary tim geithner. in a little less than two and a half hours, defense secretary leon panetta and general martin dempsey justify about the pentagon's 2013 budget request. then another view of the 2013 budget from the acting director of the white house budget office testifying on capitol hill. on washington journal tomorrow morning, barney frank of massachusetts will take your calls about the president's 2013

budget request. we'll be joins by mark meckler and jenny beth martin. and we'll discuss u.s./china relations and the chinese visit to washington with joseph schatz. there's been honest contention, spirited disagreement, and i believe considerable heart arguments. but don't let anybody be misled by that. you have given here in this hall a moving and dramatic proof of how americans who honestly differ close ranks and move forward for the nation's well being shoulder to shoulder. >> as candidates campaign for president this year, we look back at 14 men who ran for the

office and lost. go to our website c-span.org/thecontenders to see who had a lasting impact on politics. >> what about you? are you now out of debt? do you have a comfortable backlog in the bank? are you paying less for the things that you buy? or more? do you really think things can't be better? of course they can. working together we can and will make them better. >> c-span.org/thecontenders. treasury secretary tim geithner was before the senate finance committee on tuesday taking questions about the administration's 2013 budget request. he told members that the president's plan would over time reduce deficits. republican members said the tax hikes in the plan would hurt small businesses. this is a little less than two and a half hours.

>> called to order. thomas jefferson said, and i quote, the value of an idea lies in the using of it. yesterday, president obama issued his budget proposals for the next ten years. treasury secretary tim geithner is here to discuss them. we need to talk about it to help create economic growth the number one priority is job creation, we have made progress in our efforts. the jobs picture is improving and the economy is showing positive signs. we have added 3.7 million jobs in the last three months. there's still far too many people out of work.

12.8 million americans are unemployed. we need to do more to spur economic growth and help businesses create jobs. the president's budget contains critical policies to do just that. starting with the payroll tax cut. extending this tax cut through the end of the your will save families real money an average of $1,000. the families will spend that money at local businesses. pumping it through the economy. and the budget also renews unemployment benefits for workers that lost their jobs through no fault of their own, these workers are sure to spend the benefits which will help to support and create more jobs. according to the congressional budget office, every $1 in unemployment benefits can create $2 in economic growth. failure of passing a budget will cost half a million jobs, we cannot let that happen to our

american families. continuing the smart aggressive trade policy to open the world to u.s. goods is important for the jobs here at home. last year we passed three free trade agreements with colombia. u.s. exports and creates 10s of thousands of new jobs here at home. we installed a critical training program to make sure that workers have the tools they need to compete and take advantage of new trade opportunities. this year i'm working with my colleagues administration to grant permanent normal trade relations with russia. once we do, u.s. exports to russia could double over the next five years. this will create new jobs in all sectors. this budget would extend tax provisions that expired in 2011.

these include deductions for college tuition and state and local sales taxes. and it has a tax credit for research and development, and we should extend that tax credit now. we need to end the cycle of year to year extension, we should work together to net comprehensive tax reform, and make the tax code fairer and more predictable. this budget takes a step in the direction by making the 2001, 2003 tax cuts for middle class americans permanent. providing permanent state tax relief and solving the problem of the alternative minimum tax. we cannot stop there. uncertainty is not the only program, the tax code is as thick as a dozen bibles. we need to simplify it and close

loop high schools. we must ensure that it helps businesses compete in the global economy and create jobs. i look forward to working with my colleagues to create a better tax system that meets our needs. the president makes much needed investment in america's infrastructure, which is needed at a time when the unemployment rate is hovering around 15%. the senate highway bill has passed out of committees with bipartisan majorities. it will provide nearly $110 billion to support safety, mobility, interstate commerce to enact this in law. the budget takes important steps to reduce the deficit and federal debt under control. we have reduced federal deficits significantly. earlier this year, we reduced spending by $900 billion and health reform law provided the biggest reduction in more than a

decade. nevertheless, federal budget deficits and debt are still too large. this budget meets that test. i look forward to continue on debt reduction in the coming years. there is another reason to focus on deficit reduction and job creation this year. a perfect fiscal storm is waiting at the end of this year. first, in 2001, 2003, 2010 tax cuts expire. the debt limit will need to be faced at the same time. this is what will happen if we do nothing in the coming year. any deficit reduction we develop must be balanced and must be

fair. everyone must contribute. but no one should have to make undo sacrifices. one area of the budget falls short in the standard. the cut to rural assistance programs, i believe, are too deep. we must all work together to achieve meaningful deficit reduction. and we cannot do this at the expense of job production. deep cuts to agriculture program will cut the rug out from producers and unjustly target rural states like montana. rural development programs create infrastructure and housing resources. cuts to these programs have a devastating effect on rural communities. we need to enact deficit reduction in a smart way. i look forward to working with my colleagues and administration to do so. let us work together to enact significant deficit reduction in a way that preserves and enhances our job creation

efforts. let us take these ideas and find the best way to use them. i turn to my good friend, senator hatch. >> thank you, senator bachus. i want to thank you for holding today's hearing, and welcome you, secretary geithner, to the committee. let's begin by noting the total public debt outstanding is over $15.3 trillion. larger than the size of our gross domestic project. a debt to gdp ratio above 100% is clearly unsustainable and puts us in the ranks of the many european countries currently in a severe debt crisis unable to borrow. the nation deserves a budget that responsibly addresses this debt crisis. yet last year the president delivered a budget that was unanimously rejected on the senate floor. it did not receive a single yes vote, even from senate democrats

and i'll be interested to see if my colleagues will vote for this one. yesterday the president laid out his most recent budget plan. unfortunately, it similarly fails to show the fiscal crisis and it probably will never be brought to a vote. we haven't seen a budget resolution from the budget committee in years despite it being legally required. last year the president's budget did eventually get a vote. the senate majority leader has no inclination to debate a budget on the senate floor saying that they do not have to debate spending totals since they have been determined already. if so, then we don't need to discuss a large part of what the president unveiled yesterday which should make for a quick hearing today. still we have to do our due diligence. in reviewing the budget released yesterday by the president, it is clear that his plan will only

make our fiscal problems worse and harm our economy by imposing around $1.9 trillion of stifling tax hikes. earlier this month the president suggested at the prayer breakfast that these tax hikes are devinely inspired. that certainly was an interesting take on the bible as far as i'm concerned. and the president's interpretation the things which are cesars and the things that are god's become give it to cesar. who knew rendered by the department of education and hud. who knew that the separation of the weak would be performed by the obama administration picking winners and losers in the name of fairness. instead of putting an envelope in the basket at church, they should send money to the treasury. the fact is this budget is not

devinely inspired. this is a plan for a permanently larger european style d government. it does not go down a fiscal path and change the tax and spend policies and failed stimulus schemes that have and will continue to generate historic deficits and levels of debt. it does nothing to wind down the mortgage gianted fannie and freddie or to remove the government's takeover of our housing markets. it does nothing to address our entitlement crisis whistling past the graveyard as trust funds are in death spirals towards bankruptcy. the president presents the budget with its class warfare as one of fairness and compassion. is it fair to ignore the mortgage gianted fannie and

freddie which continue to drain the wallets. and it's going if we don't do something about it. is it fair to look at social security and turn the other way in the interest of avoiding harsh choices that might make a re-election campaign uncomfortable? secretary geithner, i look forward to your testimony today on the president's plan and what it might do to the economy. i have to say, though, that i wish you would be careful on your public economic pronoun pronouncemen pronouncements. it is disturbing when you claim, for example, that public's resistance to proposals for more taxing, spending, and borrowing in the so-called jobs bill means that republican dos not want to do anything to wasteful stimulus increases the risk of recession. these claims are simply not true. and they are certainly not productive. putting aside these discouraging political statements, perhaps we

could be given an explanation of why the administration appears to believe that the economic recovery is vibrant enough to be hit with more taxes. despite clear warnings from the congressional budget office of negative effects on growth. yet at the same time it's not vibrant enough to stop the runaway spending of the current administration. it seems for president obama the recipe always calls for more taxes to fund more government. the result is this budget which ignores the source of our nation's fiscal challenges. a spending problem that is only getting worse, no matter what budget baseline you choose to consider, the cbo projects that federal revenues as a share of gdp will rise above the long run average as the economy recovers even with a continuation of current tax rates. but spending as a share of gdp as projected to stay above historic norms pushing our

economy and the size of our government further down the path to several european countries to fiscal ruin. we also note that our fiscal outlook is very sensitive to fiscal developments including what might happen to interest rates or inflation. cbo tells us if interest rates run just 1% higher than in their baseline budget projection, will increase over $1 trillion. that is just for a 1% increase. if rates spike up precipitously once our creditors lose patience with the administration's unwillingness to chart a sustainable fiscal course, we could easily face deeply painful adjustments like those currently being experienced in europe. on the other hand according to the cbo, if inflation turns out to be one percentage point higher each year than under the baseline, then the deficit would actually fall over the next ten years. while the economy would suffer,

the government would benefit from higher inflation and it would be up to the fed to avoid the temptation to inflate for budgetary gain. i hope the fed's recent appetite for mixing monetary and fiscal policies will end and we don't have to worry about inflating our way out of our debt. our unsustainable fiscal path poses great risks to the economy. and the president's budget does nothing to diminish these risks. in fact, given the riskiness of our fiscal path and the temptation to inflate away some of our debt, warren buffett who the administration appears to turn to for its formulation of tax policy weighed in for advice for investors to steer clear of currency based investments like u.s. treasury securities. as mr. buffett says, in god we trust may be imprinted on our currency but the hand that activates our government's printing press has been all too human. on bonds like treasuries, the

oracle advises right now bonds should come with a warning label. secretary geithner, mr. buffett is advising investors to shy away from investments such as treasury securities and it will be interesting to know whether you agree with his advice. my hope is his recent musings don't become a new rule for investors not to buy treasuries. if investors heed that advice in large numbers, the spikes in interest rates that i worry about will materialize and the low cost financing of our $15.3 trillion debt that the u.s. temporary enjoys will evaporate in a hurry. we need to resist the siren song of cheap financing partly brought on by the federal reserve's massive purchases of treasury securities to help push rates down. unfortunately, the administration remains lulled in by the siren song and takes current low rates as a reason to spend more and pile up even more debt to finance a bloated

europe-size government. secretary geithner, i look forward to your testimony on the president's budget which i only received late yesterday. after the deadline you were supposed to honor for submission. i want to thank you for holding today's hearing, but i'm really concerned. and i don't see any real resolution to the problems that this country is currently facing. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, senator. pleased to welcome our witness secretary of the treasury tim geithner. your statement will be in the record. urge you to summarize and just take your time. >> thank you, mr. chairman. member hatch and the committee, thanks for the ability to come talk about the president's budget. our economy today is gradually getting stronger, but we have a lot of tough work still ahead of us as a country. over the last two and a half years, despite the financial headwinds from the crisis, despite the crisis in europe,

despite the increase in oil prices we saw last spring, despite the tragedy in japan, despite all those shocks and headwinds, the economy has grown an annual average rate of 2.5%. private employers have added 3.7 million jobs over the last months. in equipment and software is up more than 30%. productivity has improved. exports across the american economy from agriculture to manufacturing are expanding rapidly. americans are saving more and bringing down debt levels. the financial sector is in much stronger shape helping meet the growing need for demand for capital and for credit. now, these improvements are signs of the underlying resilience of our economy, the resourcefulness of american workers and companies, and the importance of the swift and forceful actions we took to save the financial system and pull the economy out of the worst

economic crisis since the great depression. i want to emphasize this. we still face very significant economic challenges. particularly for households and families across the country. americans are still living with the acute damage caused by the crisis. unemployment rate is still high. millions of americans are living in poverty still looking for work, suffering from the fall in the value of their homes. struggling to save for retirement or to pay for college. and we face as you both said, unsustainable fiscal deficits. in the face of these challenges, the president's budget calls for substantial additional support for economic growth and job creation. alongside longer term reforms to improve economic opportunity and to restore fiscal responsibility. most urgently and i want to start with this as the chairman did, congress must extend the payroll tax cut and emergency unemployment insurance by the end of this month. if congress fails to act, 160 million americans will

immediately pay more in payroll taxes. and 5 million people looking for work will lose or be denied unemployment benefits over the rest of the year. we will continue to encourage congress to support additional actions to cut taxes for workers in businesses to preserve the jobs of teachers and first responders, to put construction workers back to work, and to help more americans refinance their mortgages to take advantage of lower interest rates. beyond these immediate steps, the president's budget outlines a longer term strategy to strengthen economic growth and improve economic opportunity while reducing our fiscal deficits to more sustainable levels. now, i know the conventional wisdom in washington is that this debate we begin today does not matter. because congress is too divided to legislate in this election year. but this is a fundamental debate of economic priorities, about how to increase growth and opportunity, how to strengthen

health care and retirement security. how to reform our tax system, how to live within our means. it's important also because of the stark array of choices we face at the end of this year with the expiring of the bush tax cuts and the sequester. we govern with limited resources and have to make choices about how to use those resources more wisely. any strategy to address these economic challenges has to answer a few key questions. how much do we have to cut? which programs should be cut, expanded, or protected? how should we share the burdens of deficit reduction? the president's budget reduces deficits over the next ten years by $4 trillion. $3 trillion on top of the caps and cuts in the budget control act.l would lower the deficit from just under 9% of gdp

around 3% of gdp in 2018. a deficit at that level will stabilize the overall debt to gdp in the second half of the decade putting us back on the path of fiscal sustainability and better position to confront the remaining challenges we would still face that come from the -- come from the rise in medicare, medicaid, and social security costs as more americans retire. under the president's budget, non-defense discretionary spending is expected to fall to its lowest level as a share of the economy since dwight eisenhower was president. and the president's plan would significantly slow the rate of growth in spending in medicaid and medicare both through the affordable care act and the additional reforms proposed in the budget. but as we reduce spending, we also have to protect investments that are critical to expanding economic growth and opportunity. that's why the budget proposes a

series of targeted investments in education and innovation and manufacturing and in infrastructure. now, in order to achieve this balance, significant savings but some important investments, we're proposing to raise a modest amount of additional revenues through tax reform. we propose tax reforms that raise revenues because we do not believe it is possible to meet our national security needs to preserve a basic level of health care and retirement security or to compete effectively in the global economy without some increase in revenues as part of a basic plan. the president's plan includes $2.50 of spending cuts for every dollar of revenue increases. this is focused on the top 2% of american taxpayers, not the remaining 98%. though we illustrate in our budget a range of specif