them to a very important moment in the cold war. and we will starts as they come in i will introduce each of them you will hear from them again, of course. ambassador gilbert a. robinson was coordinator of the american national exhibition in moscow where he brought together vice president nixon and russian premiere nikita khruschev in what you will note as the famous kitchen debate. currently chairman of new realm investments llc, president of garr ink, a firm advising companies on international trade. from 1998-2003, he was national director and chief operating officer for the center of the study of the presidency here in washington. from 1983-1985, he served as special advisor for public diplomacy to secretary of state george schultz. in february of 1981, president ray gain appointed him as deputy

director of the united states information agency. we are very grateful to have you here and for your public service. tanya sochurek one of the guides at the moscow exhibition stationed in the model home. which you will learn much more about shortly. besides representing the face of america, she became one of the main faces that americans at home saw in coverage of the exhibition through the photographs taken by howard so cher recommend that ran in life magazine. they later wed in 1965. i don't know if there are any connections. >> george feifer one of the original guides at the moscow exhibition, author of many books including the battle of okinawa. he has written for variety of publications including the new republican, new york times, magazine, harper's and saturday

evening post. he lives in connecticut. we are indeed very fortunate to have three eyewitnesss in cold war history. ambassador robinson, why don't we start with you, please try to explain to our audience here and on cspan what these american exhibits were and why our country put them together. >> well, you have to start with president eisenhower, he thought that we, and i think there is a dwo quote, we were conspicuous by our absence from major exhibitions. he started out with the trade fairs, we had trade fairs and that i participated in as a manager and got my feet wet in turkey and tunisia. i got called home abruptly when

we were putting together the american national exhibition in moscow, which was the official name. so i think that the objective of eisenhower, who also started the united states information agency, never realized years later i would be number two there, deputy director, but the commerce department and the usia had the responsibility for exhibitions, mainly commerce. so that was what happened and then when i was called home, there was a man who was named chad mcclellan who became the manager of the american national exhibition, he had been the president of the national association of manufacturers, and when he called me home, i came to his office and he said

"hope you're not mad at me" i said no, there must be a good reason. he said remember last year we were negotiating with the soviets to set up an exchange of exhibitions and it failed? while you were away i succeeded. he is one of the best negotiators i've ever seen, and he said i would like you to be my assistant, when we get over there you will be the coordinator. >> ambassador, let's look a picture of you with president eisenhowe eisenhower. >> that was taken, mcclellan was back home in california. eisenhower invited me to the office to thank us really, thanks to everybody. including the guides for fantastic job that we had done. >> who designed the exhibition?

>> we had welton beckett subcontracted to italian contractors. we had the buck minister fuller was very generous, let one of his top colleagues come up with other ideas and they expanded his idea, and anodized the aluminum gold color, 75 feet high and could hold about 5000 people standing up watching the exhibits and things like that. it was, don't you think, tanya, enormous? >> wasn't jake macy involved? >> he was the usia, brilliant coordinator of this exhibition. and jack did a terrific job. >> did we get as much space from

the soviets as we asked for? >> we gotten acre site and they got the coliseum in the heart of new york. it was easier for new yorkers to get but we had we had six months to build the exhibition, eisenhower was so interested in it that he arranged for mcclellan reporting to the secretary of commerce, to report to him. that gave it a lot of clout. and mcclellan was smart, he said at that time we're in the middle of the cold war, all the communications are highly encoded, he said to the state department i want no encoding of any of our cables that go to russia. we want the soviets to be able to read them. and state department, i

understand their point of view were horrified, eye hour said let it go it turned out wonderful because we would send cab kels back and forth to our managers that we put over there and said we need forklifts, truck, is it possible the soviets don't have them, then no answer, then a week later -- >> forklifts. >> a week later a state department courier bring us, we had one of the first polaroid camera, there was a parade of forklifts, the soviets put on a parade. >> jason, let's look at what one of the forklifts built. was the goals to introduce soviet citizens to daily american life or american goods? >> it was that and i believe

that was khrushchev's aim, so he could take more of the defense budget and put it in consumer goods. we wanted to show them what america was, it was a broad picture, you helped me, if i forget some of the things, the pavilion there was the fashion pavilion, we had a fashion show with little kids and grandmas and everybody, we had a mock wedding. >> we had beautiful things there. in that dome we had or close to it, george you have to correct me there, we had the family of man exhibit, which was stunning, had been in brussels, beautiful photography. we had dior models helping out and showing american clothing. we had a beauty shop, which the russian womenenjoyed. we had ge with an all electric

kitchen. we had a drugstore if i remember correctly, tremendous selection of things. of course the automobiles, my god, they loved the american cars. >> when you were putting this together, did you know that the vice president of the united states would be making a visit? >> the answer is a resounding no. we didn't know until toward the end that there was going to be a delegation. we thought nixon would probably maybe he would send nixon to head it, and i was surprised when i learned the president's brother would head it and not the vice president. >> milton eisenhower. >> when i was in a taxi, i wanted to see how much information the general public was getting and i said eisenhower is coming over here, and the taxi driver said nyet, milton eisenhower.

>> next picture, jason. tanya, how did you come to be a guide? >> okay, it was actually very interesting experience for me. i was graduating, my senior year at gw here in washington. somebody picked up an article in "newsweek" magazine saying the government would put together a show and looking for 75 american russian speaking guides. and i was very fortunate i came from a russian family, tanya being a russian name. we spoke russian in the home. i didn't have to struggle with the language. and i went down to the usia office and had a short interview and it was accepted quickly. but there was a great batch of 75 young people, some i was one of the younger ones, there were people who finished college, done graduate work all in the russian area, literature, history, really intelligent group and i kind of fit into this.

and what you're seeing here is a shot of me working in the model house. it must have been in the falle you can see i'm bundled up was getting cold, we finished in september, didn't we finish in september, george? >> yeah. >> it was cold, that is a quickie of that. >> ambassador has a tory to tell you. >> i never revealed this to you, tanya. >> maybe i should leave. >> he's only revealing it to you and people with in ssomnia on cspan. >> mcclellan was smart, he built 10 offices, 10 for the russians, 10 for us. the manager of the soviet on the soviet side, was there to help us, came until to me, very agitated one day and he said come over here. and i came to the top we could look down he pointed to you. and he said "she has to go home"

and i said what are you talking about? she is not american. i mean she is american as i am. no, she speaks russian like me without an accent. >> oh my god. >> i said of course, her mother was born here, and they spoke russian at home. you had told me that. but i never told you that. he just threw up his hands. >> thank you for keeping me there. >> before i show you the next photo i want you to know nobody has paid product placement. could we see the next photo, please? george, how -- >> you haven't changed a bit, george. >> my russian was so atrocious i won't bore you with that. with your liberty i want to put things in broader perspective from the first. first of all, this was such a sensation in moscow that i subsequently went on to study at

moscow university and i met a dozen people who either climbed the wall, the fence or went under the fence. these were friends of mine later in moscow. it was a huge attraction. the russians of course had been -- there had been a youth festival in 1957, it was to open up after the death of stalin, but to have an american exhibit not quite in the heart, it wasn't central park but sokolniki, there was a metro station there, to have this was an extraordinary accomplishment on both sides. both sides who wanted to cool it. many people opposed on both sides. we'll get to that later, i hope. secondly, even more extraordinary was probably when the audience with your enviable youth don't remember or never

knew the all-consuming nature of the cold war. the depths of the cold war, we were scared out of our minds. i live in very rural connecticut, a house of a friend of mine that they just bought in rural connecticut, 100 miles from any city had a bomb shelter. americans were terrified and sadly, americans never knew how terrified rthe russians were. we have great difficulty of putting ourselves in other people's shoes. this was an extraordinary event in a terrible time because the energy of the country, virtually every aspect of our country and of russia was dedicated to pursuit of the cold war. >> george, you and tanya remember on some weekends we had enough crowds to break down the

fences almost, 60,000 people would come in in this ten acre site and one day another one of the russian staff up there, who we all knew was the kgb man, and he came rushing in on the weekend and up the stairs, very excited, and my russian was fair but not good, and so i pulled -- we had translators who were part of the russian staff, i said what is the matter? so she took me a little bit aside while he was sputtering on the steps and said when he's around and tells people what to do, that they feel that he -- they would do that, they understand who he is. he said but here they feel that it is america and they are on american grounds and the only people who they obey are the americans.

i had designed this button which actually is my original button, all of us wore them, and it was mcclellan and i figured how will we have the guide, do we have uniforms, no, we decided i suggested to him and he liked it the button, so we had the designers do this and it says american exhibition in moscow, right? >> right, yes. >> so she said only people that will be obeyed, he wants one of these buttons. and i said well, sir, i won't use his real name, but i said vladimir, i said i'm sorry these are only for americans. he got more excited at the translation, i took it off, i pinned it on him, today you're an american, he went away happy and helped us very much, because we were having a lot of crowd control problems. >> not only do we have to explain the psychological moment of the cold war but maybe since

we live in the iphone, ipad era, we might want to talk about cultural isolation. how much did the russians know about american society? >> not very much, they were so terribly cut off. i don't want to jump ahead to the actual debate but one of the under lying reasons that you had a debate was because even khrushchev with his limited exposure to the west, no expo sure to america until much later, grew up as all the russians grew up feeling this line of all america did was discriminate against jews, lynch blacks, have terrible unemployment problems with the working classes, it was so negative, everything was terribly negative about us, and when we brought in the fantastic show of how we really were living in 1959 i'm sure this irked khrushchev.

>> the best exhibit was you and the other 75 guides. you spoke russian, the others spoke it very well, these were -- there were sometimes you probably felt this, where they didn't want to go through the exhibits, they wanted to talk to you. >> they wanted to talk to us. >> about anything. >> the interesting thing was having personnel there, 75 of us, unlike what the soviets had in new york when they opened their show, we were given instruction but we never came out identical in the sense of everybody thinking the same way, grew up connecticut, oklahoma, different degrees. i was living with my mother, someone else may have been married. people giving their personal lives you could ask us different questions about politics, we came up with different answers because we weren't programmed. >> we had different political ideas. >> we had different political ideas. >> some conservative liberal.

>> all across the board, we didn't have to represent a particular party line. >> there was an attempt to give us a bit -- >> we had to get some background. >> let's not white wash america. you're right the russians knew very little about america and it was very slanted. how much did the americans know about russian life? i'll stand here and say that the average educated russian read more literature than the other way around. this literature was in a sense censored, there were a lot of books you couldn't get. i don't want to do the usual job of white washing americans in this business. we were ignorant of the russians and the average american thought of russians as one big labor camp and the fact is whether we were at the exhibition, we heard

a lot of different opinions from russians. now, there were among the crowds kgb agitate tors there, you could pick them out, who when somebody asked me why was my sister named lila, how much did a kilo of bread cost. i didn't know what a kilo was. there were kgb agitate tors they would ask things, on the other hand they were russians who hid themselves in the crowd who shouted out to these clearly kgb people saying "shut up we came here to hear these guides not you, we hear you every day" so let's not white wash america and say that all the misunderstanding was on the part

of russians not knowing american life. >> didn't you write they knew more about mark twain? >> russians read more about our supposed most seminal american author. this is no longer true now in russia but was true during the communist period. >> i think you may be right about reading literature and novels, i think the russian culture is steeped on it. their news was totally censored. >> they were restricted. >> the u.s. had freedom of information and we had that. >> things like voa, voice of america, they loved that and the jazz program that we pushed through on voa, it was very tough for them. we had much more access to information than they did. >> did any of you get to know i think we had three black guides?

>> sure. >> one was a great buddy of mine, yes. >> they would come up and that is where they didn't want to go to the exhibition, they would ask them aren't you persecuted, have you ever had anyone lynched, all kind of ignorant questions because they didn't have nl. one of their fathers was a doctor. >> one was norris garnett. i can't remember his background. >> went into usia later. it wants hard for them they were pummelled with questions, being black and trying to represent america, what are you doing here, how come you're representing the people who are always against you. >> where do you live? >> are you in harlem. >> where do you live, he said we live in jersey. >> in a high-rise? >> no we have our own home. >> you don't have a car? >> we have two in the family you

know what i'm saying, it was unbelievable. one of the things that happened, cars, very important, i remember standing in front of the national hotel, across from the kremlin, and talking with somebody, just in the street and there was not a single car or truck came by for half an hour because moscow is now one of the worst traffic jams in the world. >> that's right, it is. >> i don't think the exhibit staff could take credit for the photographer who flew over the plans, there was a plan by disney, inside the dome were two -- was it five or seven? i think seven -- >> the screens, yeah. >> 20 x 30 foot. when i heard the music even today the hair stands up on the back of my neck because the russians were seeing in one big screen there would be a hand getting out in the days of the

milk bottle, the yellow school bus, the seven screens quickly would pick up the life of america in the morning. and then it went to the afternoon, and then new york it would see somebody eating from one of the carts a frankfurter, in chicago a fancy restaurant, then l.a., night evening. >> very creatively done. >> i'm trying to think of the husband and wife team who did that, they were great artists. eames, they created this. we had people from different walks of life and architecture and jack selected a lot of the designers and, jack macy, all came together beautifully. i started to say about the cars. the photographer in the plane flying over, showing the plant, but he didn't realize he got

couple thousands cars in the picture and the russians were all pointing to the cars because they were beginning to real eyes that american had cars because there couldn't be that many bosses. >> speaking of bosses let's talk about july 23rd, the day that khrushchev and nixon come to the exhibition. you helped plan that day. >> yep. >> was a debate planned? >> oh, gosh, no. mcclellan and i, was quiet, #:00 at night the night before, we started two days before and got interrupted and the whole discussion was mcclellan says where do you think we ought to go? how do we do this, i said i was in the army, i said you choose the places i'll put up my hand and lead, we decided that and basically mcclellan that there

would be first in the first color studio in the world. none of us had seen color television, if you wanted to record a program, you had to put a camera in those days, up until '59, 16 millimeter camera, and what was it called? >> jason, let's look at the ambassador bringing in khrushchev, not ambassador then. bringing in khrushchev. so you were going to first bring them to the rca. >> then we would go past the helena rubenstein where the women were getting facials. >> don kendall wanted to sign a contract and kept hammering us, got to have khrushchev drink

pepsi. so -- >> which they didn't like. >> what happened is we were going to go we there anyway, you know better than i do, the society pretended they -- we had very pretty russian girls in pepsi uniforms, and i said, if we go closer i'll bet you they will cry out, mr. premiere. they tasted it, kendall signed a 15 year contract. if you want to the soviet union i'm sure you went back, there were nothing, no coke, only pepsi there until 15 years later. i saw don kendall at the russian embassy last week, 90 years old now, former chairman but still heavily involved in russia, and he told me that pepsi now has from that beginning employs 30,000 people in russia, been

expanding. >> they do vodka, too. >> that is how they get paid. >> let's get the next picture, please. tanya, tell us how you ended up meeting pat nixon. >> again, this was not planned, i was just working in front of the house, and all of a sudden she came up with a group, small group and came up and wanted to see things and she was delightful. very very pleasant person. it was very nice to talk with her, it was easy, very nice, simple person, not complicated, not stand offish, i remember her distinctly as being very pleasant and the crowds liked her. stayed for a little while then she walked through. >> now, the next big moment of course is the -- let's look at the next picture. >> we took them in the studio the cameramen were ready, they

stopped there, and were talking which became in effect a debate on, there were two debates, everybody thinks there was one. one in the rca color studio, and that was captured on television, and later on moved through. >> what was supposed to happen we're going to see this in a moment. what was supposed to happen here? what was supposed to happen we were going to show them color television, going around, the technicians and the other people they really wanted to get them to talk, and stop and so they did everything with the cameras that they could, and we had briefed nixon on one thing, we said there is a new thing called tape, and it's called ampex tape. >> he would learn the lesson very well. >> and none of us had seen it, and so we said if something happens and this is the