patrol in washington, d.c. and to pay them overtime, it's something i just don't understand. and my time is almost up, but i would like to follow that. i have been trying get that information and they could not get that. i said i would talk to you and get that information. i think that members of congress want to see the border patrol at the border instead of having them rack up millions of dollars of overtime in the washington office. >> i share that concern. i will say, however, that it makes sense to have border patrol agents get some headquarters rotation so they really get an operation of how the system works and what is going particularly those that are moving up the ladder. >> right. and i am in full agreement, but 250, i think we can work with

you and we want to work with you. and thank you for the good job you've been doing, and i look forward to work with you. thank you, mr. chairman. >> the gentlemen from minnesota, mr. kovak, the author of the bill. >> and i have a great staff that helps me create that. >> there's no doubt. >> thank you, sir. thank you madam secretary for being here today. the flight deck officer program was cut down by 50%. this program was made up of volunteers that pay more out of their pockets than it costs to protect our nation. in fact, to provide the protection for each flight deck officer, for each ffdo flight costs the nation 15 dl$15.

that is how efficient the federal flight deck program is. i have to believe that is probably one of the most cost effective program in the u.s. government. they volunteer their time and money to be a deterrent and aid our country. they are the last line of defense when it comes to piracy. what prompted -- did you make this cut or did it come from the president? or where did it come from? >> i think the reduction for the federal flight deck officer program is predicated on the fakd that fact -- on the fact that it's not risk based. you'll have an ffdo whether somebody is on a flight or not and we are moving in the tsa to pri risk-based systems. >> i agree with risk based

systems but i believe a $15 federal flight deck officer is essential. do you agree that a federal flight desk officer is the last layer of defense? there's many layers, the check point at the gate has caused concern is only one of other many layers. so there's a lot of things. the ffdo's, have been useful. i'm not sure about the $15 figure, it's a program as we look at the universe of things that we want to do in the aviation environment. i said before, we have to find places to cut that was one of them because it's not risk-based, that was put on the table. >> yes, ma'am, i fully understand prisk-base. but again i'll ask is a flight

desk officer the last line of defense for our flyi iflying? >> i think the armed cockpit door is. >> as a former pilot, i know about the cockpit door and i'll tell you, ma'am, speaking from a position that i have flown as a pilot and as a federal flight deck officer, you may any that door is the last line of defense but it's that armed pilot in the cockpit that will be the last line of the defense. thank you for your comments though. is your intention that this program be phased out? >>py think as the budget request shows, it's our intention to reduce it's, yes. but not, we have not predicted its demise. we just think we can do it with less. >> let me expound on that, what

message does it send to the pilots that are willing to take this on their own time and pay for their own lodging to train for the privilege of protecting their fellow public. how do you think that effects this? >> we had to make difficult decisions and this is one. >> i think that probably you have, in protecting the public, i would strongly encourage you to reevaluate that position. also, it's come to my attention recently that norad has two, 24 hour facilities, were chosen for elimination. identify dutiy combines with the

air national guard and they are pulling a vital mission from this -- from these two fighter wings. how will this effect you in responding to threats? because after 9/11 they were flying 24/7, they deploy in a lot of different places and i see my time is expired. can you comment on that quickly? >> flr several other similar type things around the northern border but, the analysis that has been done is those operations can be covered from a cons consolidated center. >> i yield back. >> the gentle lady from new york is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, and we forgot to add mr. turner to our discussion about up state and down state

new york. mr. turner is also a new york city and one of our newest members here. let me say madam secretary, there's no doubt in my mind and i think in the mind of most new yorkers that your commitment to partnership and collaboration with our local law enforcement has been extraordinary and we are truly, truly grateful for that and we have had an opportunity through, unfortunately, through having been the number one terrorist target in the nation to have those partnerships strengthened over time and built up certain capabilities that most municipalitys would have no reason to, most of all, but out of necessity, we have had to. i wanted to raise a couple of issues with you and having the

highest regard and respect for local law enforcement in the city of new york, whether in fact there's a point where the department of homeland security looks at, looks at the implementation of various policies in the city of new york and the impact on the municipality. whether in fact, dollars that we have provided for homeland security have been over reaching in terms of itself usage and what its impact is on the local municipality. why am i raising this? because there's been some programs that have been highlighted recently, in our excitement to apprehend the lone actor or anyone who is radicalized that may be in the population, and that has

extendsed itself into the lives of average every dpa new yorkers that do not fit any profile under any circumstances, or who may. it's individuals whose mosques are now open to surveillance, where individuals sit there just to observe whether in fact there's terrorists tendencies, i suppose. we have even seen videos produced that have high ranking officers of our city and utilized in the training of our police officers that talk about the third jihadist. there are things that i think have gone, askew, i am wondering how we have the conversation about civil liberties and civil

rights. i hope me raising this with you today is an indicator to you that there needs to be some discussions, some very serious discussions. we are new yorkers, a town of diversity. and to the extent where our police department has become so empowered that civil liberties become something that is secondary, then our nations beginning to decline. i wanted to raise that with you and hope that you look into that, madam secretary but my question is, when you testified before this committee at the beginning of this congress, you testified that the threat level was at the most heightened state since 9/11, your testimony was quoted for the basis of many meetings. a recent report issued by the

try ankle center said that certains about a potential wave of home grown terrorism has not materialized over the lasts two years and terrorists incidents have declined. do we remain at that same posture given all we know and all the intelligence that has been gathered and expertise and are we still at the most heightened threat since 9/11? >> i think we live in a volatile world in a number of respects. as i said in my opening statement, we are dealing with evolving threats, they change all the time. they can be from al qaeda,al kpi kied a relate -- al qaeda related group. but terrorism and extremeism is

not just one type of ideology. that requires us to look at it in a number of ways to maximize our ability to minimize risk within, and along with an p incorporating the important protections that our nation has under the constitution, the bill of rights and other statutes such as the privacy act. so we want to make sure we pin corporate those principals into how we do our work. but we do live right now in a very volatile world. >> thank you, recognize the gentlemen from illinois for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman, i'll yield to you. >> thank you.

general pa tray us testified last week and found the relationship between the nypd the -- dealing with the cia and director muler was said that the nypd is in full compliance with the law. with that i yield back. >> madam secretary, thank you for being here today. we saw a wide range of reports from the gao, as well as a recent report from the house of transportation and infrastructure committee identifying hundreds of millions dollars in annual waste and inefficiencies at tsa, yet in your proposed budget, you're seeking to triple the $2.50 security tax to $7.50 which you say would generate $25 billion over the next ten years.

the president's budget proposes a $100 user fee for every single time an airplane takes off. it seems to be costing more and more for americans to fly which effects all sectors of our economy. right now, government taxes make up around 20% of an airline ticket. so $61 on a typical $300 round trip ticket, that is more than any other item being taxed. we seem to be reaching a point where, especially in the difficult economic times we are in right now where we are singling out the airlines and airline customers and possibly even discouraging travel. how do you balance that with the need for security? >> well, you have to do both.

travel, trade, tourism are important economic values. to keep the economy moving to propel the recovery and the like. we are always looking at maintaining security and trade and keeping a posture in the aviation world where it is a constant threat, a constant target. we are doing it a couple of ways. one way is, as we move to more risk-based approach. expanding the trusted traveller type programs, global entry for international travel, it's called fsa precheck that we are going to be expanding to the 28 largest airports in the united states over the course of the ye year, chicago's ohare being one of them. that allows us to prescreen passengers before they get to

the airport and they go to a separate line so we can expadite their processing and then keel with the other pass engers, so e are going carefully and slowly because we don't have room for mistakes. but, our pilot projects in the area have been very productive. >> i have heard many concerns great folks in and around the industry and just airline customers in general, concerned with the large taxes on flying these days. quickly, with my remaining time, when and how are you looking at the other aspect of the equation? the millions potentials waste and in efficiencies in the

budget? >> we have identified some things we can take and redeploy that money into operational activity and that is along with the $3 billion worth we have found already. we are constantly looking for ways to meet our obligations and do it more cheaply. so, any avenue we have of doing that, we listen to our employees. they have ideas. sometimes the customer base has ideas. we have no monopoly on good ideas, so if people have them, we will take them. thank you, i yield back. >> and the gentlemen from new york, is recognized from five minutes. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman and the ranking member and secretary napolitano. thank you for being here. two things with respect to the

community. the border action plan of canada that sets forth a plan for at least one preinspection pilot program, that is a very very important border crossing at the peace bridge for our commerce and i want to urge you in the strongest possible terms to consider the peace bridge for that pilot project. it's very important. the other issue is the urban area security initiative program. in fy '2011, the -- your department removed 32 high risk urban areas, including buffalo, new york, and these community did not choose to be on that program. they met a criteria that indicated that the unique circumstances of those communities posed a considerable

threat and therefore were given the resources to work in a collaborative way with other law enforcement agencies to protect these urban areas. have you a new program, the allocation for sustainment of capabilities in high risk areas and i would ask that those 32 communities be considered for that funding as well. the unique situation with respect to buffalo is that, well it's buffalo. but also toronto is close, and niagra falls, a destination for more than eight million people all over the world, the power company is in that area that produces the largest, cleanest power in all of the community. so it's important that the department consider allowing the communities, the resources they need to sustain the capabilities

that they have established under this program. i want to echo on something, and that is the threat of hezbollah. they are a shia group committed to violent jihad. they have a presence that is growing in the 20-country region of latin america and they have a presence in at least 15 american cities. four major cities in canada as well. you indicated in response to the chairman that you were working with the fbi and the intelligence community. we have had previous hearings here where expert witnesses had said that we should not be all that concerned because hezbollah's presence in the western hemisphere is limited to fundraising activity.

i do not see the distinction. i think the presence is a severe threat and it needs to be addressed. so, any comments you have? >> i indicated to the chairman, i believe we are monitoring hezbollah and we are in touch with the working -- working with the fbi, we are -- we have provided intel to state and local law enforcement where appropriate and we are conducting a lot of outreach to targeted communities, so, we are, you know, we are right there with you. with respect to the peace bridge, we are working with canada on the preinspection pilot. no final decisions have been reach oed on the peace bridge.

>> and i want to associate myself with my colleague kathy hokel in asking do replace the out dated border patrol station with a new facility at the niagra falls station. the two senators have joined us, the western delegation as well, we think that, that is a very important move for a lot of reasons including especially the good work that this border patrol does. thank you. i yield back. >> i should have warned you you were going to get double teamed. gentlemen is recognized. >> i want to thank you in advance for the cooperation of your agency, tomorrow we will be

working on further inquiry into the issue of the social media and the work of dhs on that. but i'm grateful for work that you have done in helping us to understand that we will be exploring it more tomorrow. i want to follow-up on issues that mr. mccall raised. now, you testified today that the fast and furious was an atf operation. what does that mean with respect to the cooperation or the coordination with dhs? >> i think just as it says, it was an atf led and organized operation. so, that -- that's where it is. >> well, you -- that's where it is. but i mean, it's an ocdef case and i know from your experience, you understand the significance of what an ocdef case, which is

a multi-agency case. we have established through testimony and other committees an ocdef case implies and requires that there be collaboration among multiple agencies. fasts and furious was identified as a ocdef case, to what extent are their reporti ining requires for the participation of your agents on ocdef cases? >> if you are asking is there a reporting requirement that any participation in any ocdef matter at the field level has to be reported up to and including washington headquarters? no. there's way too much action for that to be feasible or wise. if you are asking how our inter agencies handled within the ocdef context, my understanding

is, as is yours, there's a lead agency that is running the operation and is this instance, it was the atf. >> there's participation, to what extent is there reporting requirements? >> again, i don't know what you mean by participation. we have agents who are out working on matters of all types at all times. but i think on fast and furious and again, i any we all recognize that serious mistakes were made there that should never be repeated, but, again, this was an atf operation. >> well, that is the question. i know it was an ocdef operation, which included the participation. do you know who lane france is? >> i do not. >> he is an i.c.e. agent and he was the co-case agent in ocdef.

>> again, i did not know it was a fast and furious hearing. >> it's not. mr. mccall open today door. i did not intend to get into it. >> the issue is to make sure that in my shop we are not running gun walking cases with unsupervisored weapons delivers, it's against our policies to do so, we do not want that happening. >> do you know if there was a report from the case agent who was a co-case agent on the case, up the chain with respect to the anticipated activities, which the justice department requires approvals before the cases are undertaken? >> again, co-case agent. let's not confuse that as co-lead. you may have someone listed as a

co-agent and have no operational contact with nthem, they are a name down because this is guy that does the ocdef work in a specific attorney'ses of. i cannot answer the questions because did i not know this pfs a fast and furious hearing. >> have you done any investigation into the partic your department in fast and furious? >> when i learned about, when all the facts came out about fast and furious back here, i instructed our department to make sure that we were not running gun walking cases, we were -- that our policies were clear. and that there was a common understanding within the department. >> have you investigated the activity which took place? we know with atf and with your agent was a co-case agent. have you looked independently of what is going on in the

department of justice? have you looked independently at the activities of your agents with respect to fast and furious? >> i believe the director of i.c.e. has. i again, must object to the use of the word co-case agent, because it implys that -- >> have you spoken to holter about this case? >> i have not. >> why not? >> because it's been under investigation here and by the inspector general and there was no occasion to do so. >> my time is up. thank you. >> the gentlemen from louisiana is recognized for five minutes. >> that, mr. chairman. let's go back to the grant program and in louisiana,

especially in south luouisiana with the largest port system in the world when you combine the port of south louisiana and the port of plaquemines, is it your understanding that those departments that receive if bulk of the money would receive the same or more support under the program? >> i think it's difficult to rejudge, what we intend is is that we want to look at the $35 billion that we spent to ho homeland security grants, where that has put us, so we can look across states and regions across the country and identify where we have gaps and critical truck customer that needs hardening. >> second, the