as you can imagine a lot of people are upset when the loan rates changed or didn't get their payment in so we had to see where the possibilities are. you had mentioned that you're going to have -- or you have a system that you can see the metrics of success. wait time. call time. hold time. response. all those. i would want to echo what my colleague on the other side that i would anxiously want to see that. because we -- this is our number one caseload work is around v.a. issues. second to that within the v.a., the 800 number, lack of response or inadequate response i should say. that's current, not six months ago or a year ago. this is very current, and customer service is name of the game. how to make sure the veterans have the services they need. is that something you can provide sooner than later so i can get a better understanding? >> i'm going to dive into those numbers today. >> very good.

>> based on the testimony. >> thank you. i think the only solution the your issue on the i.t. is your whole budget should be a two-year instead of a one year and a two year. that's my personal opinion. >> thank you very much. >> thank you, madam chair. i have a couple of concerns, that the budget request includes operational efficiencies that are estimated to save $1.2 billion. that's been done in the past by, you know, various administrations. last years budget request also included operational efficiencies of just over $1 billion. the -- in the past, gao has questioned whether or not those savings has come about. i guess if they don't come about how are you planning for the risk? what's your contingency plan if we don't see $1 billion in savings?

>> i'm going to call on dr. petzel to respond to -- since this is they looked at his budget for the savings. anticipated savings. but i can tell you that right off the top, $362 million saved because of using a medicare standard pay rate instead of paying the rates we were being charged previously. $200 million in proper payments because we reduced those. through the program management accountability program office in i.t., about $200 million in savings pause we -- because we terminated projects that were not going to deliver. and then about $100 million

first notice of death on which we stopped payment on veterans accounts when they transpired in the past. this has been an issue. sometimes as much as $100 million in overpayments. and for the future we are agreed to provide as a minimum $173 million in savings. reducing waste and 2012 and 2013. and that's part of our effort to get at the savings and efficiencies and let me ask dr. petzel to provide more detail. >> thank you, mr. secretary. the savings -- let's go through a little bit of what went on in '11. the gao reviewed that and we're still actually negotiating with them about what they actually found.

the essence is going to be that we indeed can validate the savings that we have claimed from the various operational efficiencies. they do have a legitimate criticism about the way we measured things and the granularity of the measurement and which we'll be improving. for 2013, as the secretary mentioned we are going to save a large amount of money in dialysis. we have got contracts now or blanket purchase agreements w h virtually every dialysis sen tear will save us hundreds of millions of dollars. the medicare rate payment change that occurred with the regulations allowing us to charge -- to collect medicare -- charge medicare rates for both the professional fee and the facility fee is going to save us about $300 million that's absolute money that we would have spent otherwise had we not been able to do that. and in the efficiencies with v care, something we can measure

easy. acquisition fees about $355 million in savings. there's a long list and i'm not poing to take the time to go through that. but i'm absolutely confident we will be able to save this money. >> madam chair, one last comment here. we're going to look at all of this and look at it hard. i have cautioned us that in the end, we have to focus on what makes sense for veterans. i'll use dialysis as an example. we're after the best prices we can get and, you know, if you just look at that, you may be encouraged to outsource all of it. i have argued that dialysis is something we have to retain a handle on. we should do a certain amount, certain portion of it in house. why do i say that? i'm just concerned that if we provide funds and let somebody else take care of dialysis, we

ignore what a medical profession is supposed to do and that is as long as we're doing dialysis, we'll have to ask ourselves what causes it? why do we have to do this? what are the things on the front end that allow us to deal with preventing diabetes so that dialysis doesn't become a fact that we have to live with? and i think the medical profession is the best at asking those questions and that's why i think within v.a. we need to retain a piece of that operation. we continue our look into issues affecting our nation's veterans in a few minutes. tom tarantino of iraq and afghanistan veterans of america will talk about the rising unemployment among returning soldiers. after that, a house hearing examining the availability of health services for veterans suffering from mental trauma. we'll hear from a marine combat veteran who said he might have received help earlier for his war-related trauma if his

disability pay had been contingent upon his getting treatment. >> we are joined by rick mays, the army times congressional editor. you have been writing and reporting quite a bit lately on the issue of unemployment among veterans. what have you found? >> well, i found that the problems is bad and not getting better. no matter what they really try to do in the administration and in congress and the states, the unemployment rate for veterans really is stuck particularly for young veterans. and it could go higher considering how they're really having trouble finding jobs. >> you point out the real concern is over members of the national guard and less so in the reserve. why so? >> they're 24 years old and below and a lot of them didn't have jobs before they deployed to iraq or afghanistan. when they go home, they still don't have jobs. so they're showing up on the unemployment rates. unlike other people, sort of like lost out on the opportunity to have a strong skill that's

going to help them right away. they're left sort of without any help at the moment. >> why do the more -- the veterans of the regular service have a lower unemployment rate? >> well, it's not the veterans. well, in part because they're serving longer. so they are going to stay in eight to ten years or a little bit older when they're looking for work and in general, employers are more likely to hire people over the age of 24 than below the age of 24. >> there's a hearing coming up on capitol hill next week focusing on this issue. what are you expecting out hearing? >> they're looking to do something tangible. they passed a large bill that was enacted into law last year, that has a lot of programs aimed at retraining them and trying to help in the transition to civilian life. they're looking or the more improvements they can do along that way. how can you get people back, what kind of job training, what

kind of rehabilitation programs do you need for disabled veterans? those are the kind of things they're after. i think they'll move swiftly on it. because in an election year, having a large group of unemployed veterans is something that people don't want to have to face. >> the administration has proposed some money specifically for veterans and jobs. is this on top of what they -- the congress passed you said last year? >> yeah, well congress passed the authorization last year. they didn't provide much money. they're trying to do this on the cheap. in the $140 billion veterans budget for 2013, there's $1 billion for the president obama's initiative, the veterans job corps. and we don't still really know exactly what that's going to include. there's some members of congress that have proposed a conservation element to that where people would go out and work on conservation projects. but we haven't seen the legislation so we don't know what that billion will do, and over what period of time. >> an update from rick mays,

army times congressional editor. thank you for joining us. since 9/11, about 2.4 million american personnel have been deployed to iraq, afghanistan or both as of august 30, 2011. more than 1.3 million have returned to either the national guard, reserves or left the military altogether. the unemployment rate for iraq and afghanistan veterans has fallen over the last year from 15.2% to 9.1%, but still exceeds the national average of 8.3% of americans nationwide. tom tarantino, iraq and afghanistan veterans of america. he's the senior legislative associate. how does your organization differ from others that help iraq and afghanistan vets get jobs? >> right, so we are the first and largest nonpartisan, nonprofit, advocacy ordinary. we are a younger population. we define community a little bit differently so we have to redefine how we deliver services

to veterans of iraq and afghanistan. primarily because there are so few of us. we are looking at 2.4 million americans who have served in iraq and afghanistan. less than 1% of the population. the traditional models don't really work. we are online. we understand community differently where it's not defined by where we live, by defined by the access to information. so the way we communicate with the world is different than previous generations. that's something that we have been innovative in trying to figure out how to reach out to vets so we can re-establish the sense of community we had when we were in the military. >> give us a snapshot of those returning from iraq and afghanistan and their ability to get jobs? >> the last few years the jobs has been getting worse and worse. i think we're looking at an average unemployment rate of

12.1% in 2011. this is generally two to three points higher than the civilian population. this is first generation of business leaders that's never served in the military. so we don't have any real way to qualitativety and quantitativety tell the business community what being a medic is, what being a platoon sergeant means in the business world. in generatiogenerations past, e knew that this went. they had lived the same thing. it was part of what you did when you were younger. so this civilian divide has created a greater divide within the employment community. now, businesses want to hire vets. they want to understand and so they're doing a lot of innovatiinnovate things. they're trying to learn and they're bigging cohorts of veterans within their company to teach hr managers and hiring managers what vets can bring to whatever, you know, they do as a

company. but we're a long way away. we need to quantify what military skills mean. right now if you're a medic, you could serve 10 or 15 years in the army, get out and you can't drive an ambulance in most state because we never quantified what being a medic means become an emt in the real world. i think being a medic is equivalent to being an emt, but we don't really know. we passed a bill and this is going to retrain people for a new market. and it's also going to incentivize the hiring of veterans. >> if somebody joins the military at 18, they don't have a college degree, they go to iraq and afghanistan and they come out with the skills and training, but still don't have the college degree, does that factor into their ability to get

a job? >> yes, it does. one of the first things that we have done is passed the 9/11 g.i. bill. it's probably the greatest veterans benefit in a generation. that allows veterans to get a four-year degree or vocational degree to do what they want to do in their civilian life. also, we have to teach people that these 21, 22-year-olds coming out of the military without a college degree have practical job experience that's 10, 15 years beyond what their civilian peers are. myself as an officer i came out in the late 20s. no, i didn't have an mba, but managed 400 people with four multimillion dollars budgets. that's something my friends in the civilian world aren't going to do for 15 years still and i'm in the mid 30s. we have to quantify those skills so that the business community understands them and can take advantage of them. you know, we spend billions of dollars every year training our military to be the most educated and most technically proficient

in the world. we spend countless man hours training them and then we think that's okay to throw that away when they leave the military. it's not. we have to figure out a way to bridge that gap. that's something we're starting to do now. but it's little late fore this employment market. >> along with the norm lines that we'd put on the air, we have set aside a line for those unemployed veterans. if you want to ask questions of tom tarn tee, -- tarantino, the numbers will be on your screen, you can reach out to us in twitter and e-mail as well. bridge water, connecticut, good morning. you're up first. richard on the independent line for tom tarantino of the iraq and afghanistan veterans of america. >> caller: hi, yeah, my question is i think our service men and women would be better served if which started bringing some of the billions of dollars with we're spending in afghanistan back here. and deploy those resources for employment here. i think the last time i looked

at the defense budget, there was $12 billion spent on the afghan security forces. that's more than we're spending on our joint strike fighter, i think. i'd like your comments on that. thank you. >> yeah, thanks, richard. you know, the bottom line is that in all these discussions about the defense budget and about, you know, cutting the defense budget, we have to make sure that what we cut and how we reappropriate funds does not take away from the personnel benefits. the bottom line is you don't balance the backs on the men and women who spent the last ten years sacrificing. whether it's taking money from the afghan security forces or having a few less strike fighters to pay for healthcare, i'm not a budget and defense appropriations expert. but what i do know is there's been a growing rhetoric coming out of the house, the senate and even the white house talking about changing the way military healthcare, the way military retirement is done. but you know what, those are part of the compensation package for people who join the military. they're not an insurance program.

they're not, you know, anything that's equivalent to the civilians. we can't continue to ask people who have borne the brunt of this conflict to sacrifice more. frankly, they have given their share. >> off of twitter, jim hines asked why should volunteer military veterans receive preferential treatment over other americans? >> because they're -- this is a big problem with the military civilian divide. military service isn't just another job. okay, this is a choice to serve something greater than yourself. and the benefits to this country from our military are immeasurable. in terms of security and freedom and also in terms of leadership and in terms of, you know, the types of things these people do when they get out of the military, you know, this is -- it is the elite of the public service in this country. and it's really hard for people who haven't served in uniform to

understand the service and sacrifice that we go through. admiral mullen says he fears the american people doesn't understand what we go through and doesn't understand the burdens that the military and their family are put under during a time of war. and so, you know, we owe veterans our freedom. and it's part of the deal. when someone joins the military and agrees to put their life on the line for this country and for everyone in it, we do that understanding that our country is there for us when we come home if we come home. >> butler, tennessee, republican line. floyd, good morning. >> caller: i'm a vet -- vietnam vet, i was there in '68. but i'm also an eisenhower republican. and i learned because of what eisenhower did he created the roads in this country. he built them. he created the g.i. bill for the world war ii vets coming home.

they got education free. but we don't have a republican today like that. that's what i'm talking about. and you're talking about a vietnam vet, we got nothing. we got absolutely nothing. and you guys over there, you got paid three times what we got paid in money. all i see is a mercenary force that this country ought to do away with entirely. i don't believe we need a military to send men off the war for lives. it has greed and oil. >> well, first of all, thank you for oyour service and welcome home. i think it's true the way that the country treated the vietnam generation is despicable and i think we have a chance to turn the page on that i think we have a chance to welcome american men

and women home from afghanistan this a respectful way. we talk about the greatest generation after world war ii that, you know, it was president roosevelt who created the of this was built because veterans wanted to come home and continue to serve their country. i think we have a chance right now to acknowledge and welcome home this new greatest generation of americans who are coming home from iraq and then allowing them to continue serving their country, whether it's in the private sector, in the public sector, or working on various nonprofits. this is a group of young men and women, a very small group who chose public service. and when they leave the military, largely they still want to serve. that's why i do what i do. i think we have the potential for this next generation to become our leaders. >> our next call, an iraq vet from tampa, florida. good morning. >> caller: good morning, sir. i'm an iraqi war vet. i was overseas five times.

i guess i had a question. the unemployment rate for the vets is just appalling, number one. but the returning vets, have you noticed any particular career field that has been more attractive for vets coming home than any other field? >> yeah. and thank you for your service and also welcome home. yeah. as is typical, the government sector is always the largest employer of vets. there has been a lot of defense contracting is very attractive to vets, largely because it's a similar industry, you have a lot of cultural competency. but what we're seeing now is the tech sectors and financial services sector are making a huge push to hire vets. and a lot of vets are going into them. the technology sector leans well because it's young, it's fast-paced. they train us to be independent

innative and it leads well to some of the younger business sectors in this country. and what we're seeing a lot in the financial services sector, they're making a huge push to hire veterans. but you know what? the problem with veteran unemployment from iraq and afghanistan is that we are so spread out. it's very difficult to find concentrations of where everyone is and what everyone's doing. the best way do this is we have to make sure we have a way to educate anybody who wants to hire a vet, we have something to give them that says this is what the skill means, this is how it translates to success in your business, and then we give something to the vets that say look, this is how you market yourself. this is something we're terrible at. we're really good at training them to become warriors, but we're hobble at training to become citizens again. i know we're working on better transition programs. i know there is stuff going on in congress right now that might help that along a little bit. i think this is something that the public and the private sector really has to partner together to make this happen. >> "usa today" offers some

information about women that are unemployed, saying there were nearly 22% unemployed as of december in 2011. and these are iraq and afghanistan female veterans. >> yeah. it's really tough to get good numbers on female veterans. on an average the number is about the same, 12% for women, 12.4 for women. that's averaged over a year. the problem is the sample size is so small when they collect data. think about this. iraq and afghanistan veterans less than 1% of the population. about 11% of those are women. so an even smaller population of an extremely small population. when they take sampling, a difference of two or three or four in a given month can swing it 5, 10 percentage points. this is something actually that we really need to work harder to get. we need an accurate picture of what's happening with our female vets. they a growing and critical sector of the veterans population. they need services that are on

par with their male vets, they need not just job placement but health care and benefits. this is something iava has been population, it makes it really it doesn't bear out. the incidences of someone going to extremes with post traumatic stress are actually incredibly low. i would venture far less than in the average civilian population. but what we have to do is educate the workforce. we have to let them know that, look, post traumatic stress is is a wound. chest, you're not going to walk around with a hole in your chest, you're going to get it treated. we're actually reaching out to community-based solutions like nonprofits and community mental health and training them to understand what combat mental health looks like. >> maryland is next for our guest, tom tarantino. tom, democrats line. go ahead. >> caller: thank you. anks, mr. tarantino for your service and commitment to our country. following on what you just said, just learn mortgage about the stand down movement where

nonprofits and companies come together and try to coordinate jobs and need social services and shelter and other for vets who have returned. i'm wondering what your perception is about the stand down movement. a lot of agents have start thtd. do you think it's a valuable as tote help vets that need services or we need more of that? what's your take on stand down? >> yeah, stand down is great. it has been highly effective. i think as a first step, you know, having that day where you have all the services in an easy access area where especially homeless vets who typically aren't counted, aren't treated, don't have access can't necessarily get into a v.a. very easily, where they can get into programs, where vets who need help have an easy way and are there most importantly with other vets. one thing we found in ieva the

key thing to helping vets get what they need, make sure they're around other vets, make sure they have a community. and standdown, it's typically people offering service, but it's large crowds of vets who are there to get things they need or are there to help their friends get what they need. i think it's a great first step. i think we need to take that model and expand it. we need to create this network of support, not just within the v.a. and government sector but within the community sector. there are a lot of community based nonprofits out there. there are a lot of state and government resources out there that just simply aren't engaged on vets. we have to come together and figure out how to integrate all these operations and break down the stovepipes that we have between the dod and the va and state and local governments so we can reach out and actually catch people who need services and need help. >> augusta, maine. jake, good morning. go ahead. jake from augusta, maine. jake, good morning. go ahead. jake from augusta, maine. one more time.

>> hi, guys. thanks for having me. >> go ahead. yes. go ahead. stop listening to the tv and just go ahead. >> caller: you guys have a great show. i appreciate it very much. i thank you for having such a great show but unfortunately i think it is more propaganda than anything else. i disagree that -- i know there are a lot of veterans who hear a calling and follow their hearts and i appreciate those, but i feel that many do it to line their pockets, to call a soldier a public servant i think is a little bit silly. you don't get paid when you serve. you serve god, you do it out of love. >> you can respond if you wish. >> okay. look, nobody joins the military for the great pay. and for the easy access to awesome benefits. anyone who has dealt with the department of veterans affairs knows the headache. anyone who has tried to deal with, you know, the military,

especially mental health service knows that it's difficult. and the pay is certainly a lot lower than you would be getting if you were doing an equivalent job in the civilian world. it is impractical and frankly ridiculous to say we need a military and to ask them to serve for nothing is insane. the fact is that military service is a calling. it's not a job, it's a mission. it is is a way of life. when you join the military, you don't do it for a paycheck, you do it because you want to be part of something better than yourself. you want to be a part of something bigger. it's because you have a love of country, and you feel it's important to serve your fellow americans, and that you're willing to lay down your life if necessary for that. and that's really the core of military service. it's not -- you don't do it for the wealth and the fame and the glory, because we get neither. >> pensacola, florida. rita, republican line. good morning. >> caller: good morning. i just want to thank you for the opportunity to say something

that i think needs to be said. my son is an 18 delta, which is a special forces medic. he's been in the service almost 30 years and is evidently very talented.