he's had many commendations and bronze stars for his duty and things that he has done. in fact, one of the things that attached to the commendation medal said he was the lead surgeon. my problem is when he gets out of the service next year, what kind of opportunity does he have because he says he can't get a job as a physician or anything like that at the v.a. hospitals or anywhere. seems to me all this talent is being wasted. so i would like you all to comment on what other options a person who is good at what he does and evidently likes it, how he can continue on. thank you. >> wow. thank you and thank you for your service as a military mom. i know my mom would appreciate that. you know, you're absolutely right. you are 100% right and that's what frustrated us so much about the way we handle military vocations.

you have medics, especially special forces medics, which some describe as medical school in six months. it's intense. these guys, i've seen them in the field, they're amazingly talented. it's absolutely true that their skills don't translate to any sort of certification in the civilian world. and that is totally insane and unacceptable. we fought very hard last year. we worked with the house and senate to pass a bill that is going to be able to quantify that. probably not in the next year but maybe in the year after next we'll actually be able to figure out what standard medic training, what special forces medic training actually means in the civilian. whether that's equivalent to an pa, to an emt, i just don't know. the problem is we've never done that math. we're going to start doing that math now so people like your son will be able to get out of the military and walk into a job. ahead of that i know that the office of professional

management in the government sector is actually starting to do that internally so that people like your son could continue to work in the dod as a doctor or pa or a medic or within the v.a. system and then, you know, just kind of continue their school so -- or their education so they can get the last few bits that they need to become whatever level they want to do. so things are moving, things are happening. i suspect over the next year we're going to see a lot of movement in this and we're going to see this changing quite significantly by the end of 2012 or 2013. >> is interest there any relation to the president's plan to cut portions of the military button and the veterans coming out of iran and afghanistan to go back into the pentagon to fill jobs there if those budgets weren't cut? >> i have not seen a direct correlation with that. i mean a lot of the -- some of the proposals coming out of the white house are about changing health care and changing retirement and frankly, you know, i'm absolutely opposed to those. there's been nothing that's been

a direct correlation of cutting the workforce or preventing veterans. in fact, the administration over the last three years has overhauled the way we hire in this country. that's going to change even more in the next year so the preference system is a little fixed so it's a little bit more manageable so that veterans preference isn't just five points and good luck. they've made a concerted effort through executive order in 2009 to make sure that every government agency can hire vets, has a way to track veterans from the moment they leave service into wherever they want to go in an agency so that they can hire them, train them and bring them on so they continue their service in government. >> tuscaloosa, alabama. john, democrats line. >> caller: yes, i'm a vietnam veteran, and i have a son who has just turned from iraq twice and deployed. he's having a problem readjusting. i'm able to mentor him somewhat. the local v.a. at one time had a

program that was peer led and that did a lot for me, just listening to other vets and how they attacked and solved their problems. i think if we can keep the lines of communication open and somehow address the skits skiz -- schizoid double mindness of the people when they need the armed forces, they are for them, but once they finish, there's some laws that do not consider what the person has gone through. my son was incarcerated in washington for something that i really think was just out of proportion due to the nature of their laws up there. >> yeah, well, thank you for your service and welcome home, sir. you actually touched on a couple really big issues. the fact is mental health care in the v.a. is not where it needs to be. it's nowhere even close and there's been a lot of press over

that in the last year and there are a lot of efforts to figure out how to fix the v.a. system or allow the v.a. to reach out to state and local resources and community based nonprofits to have timely adequate mental health care. you're right, peer support is the key to almost everything. nobody can talk to another vet like another vet. vets don't necessarily want to open up to civilians. i've dealt with this myself when i've gone to the v.a. in terms of the justice system, you're right. what's happened is you've started to see a lot of vets who have not had access to adequate mental health care, who can't get to the v.a. or the v.a., they go to the v.a. and they say we'll see you in six weeks. and what happens is they get into trouble and they interact with the local justice system. so what we've seen in response to that, understanding that these crimes are due to readjustment issues, due to their combat-related issues, there have been 72 veterans courts that have sprung up across the country.

there is a large movement where they're understanding, look, these aren't people who made a conscious choice to live a criminal lifestyle. these are people who are dealing with readjustments and have fallen into trouble. we can treat them and deal with with the va and in a network of peer network rather than sending them to jail. what we've seen is the recidivism rate is higlow. we need to have every community have the ability to do it and we're not there yet. >> jan asks aren't there equivalency tests they can take to fast track careers? >> yes and no. yes there are, no, there are not. the problem with equivalency and transferability of skills, is there's no set national standards. this is actually a larger problem. the military has certain systems where you can, you know, get credits for your service but the problem is most institutions don't take them. the american council on

education has an amazing translator where you can put in all your military schools and skills and then it gives a suggested amount of credit that you can get at community college or a university. the problem is it's totally voluntary and not everyone takes them. so, yes, there are smaller individual programs but what we need to do, especially for military families and the active duty military that move every two to three years, we need to find a way to transfer credits from institution to institution so that a two or four-year degree doesn't take five or six years because you have to keep going over and taking classes with different standards. >> alexander, minnesota. good morning. you're on with tom tarantino with veterans of america. >> caller: thank you for having c-span. you're a voice in the dark. so anyway, i want to say that as far as this is concerning the iraq war where i believe that congress laid down to bush when

he came out with that yellow caked uranium thing. i don't think they should have -- there was no question that showed there was no backbone in congress. and another thing is that with this private enterprise, these people that complain about or always say we should have -- everything should be private enterprise, newt gingrich is one of them, he made over a million dollars over of fannie mae and freddie mac, which is government money coming into his coffers and how many historians, i'd like to see how many historians at these -- which he claimed he was get paid the kind of money that he gets paid. >> your question for our guest, sir? >> well, one of the questions is that, you know, i believe that these -- that a lot of these wars have been perpetuated from, you know, there has been no real

basis for them to do what they do and they've squandered our national wealth. >> leave it there. let our guest respond. >> i think it is a testament to the service of this generation of veterans. you know, i know a lot of vets who felt exactly like you did, i know a lot of vets who felt we should have gone into iraq years before. at the end of the day it didn't matter. it didn't matter how you felt, whether you loved or hated the iraq war, you had a job to do, you had a mission. when i went, i didn't go because of some political belief. i went because they were sending my soldiers and i'll be damned if anybody sends my soldiers into combat without me. i went to -- i had a mission, and that was part of my service. you don't join the military because of your political beliefs. you join the military because you want to serve your country. and that type of service is really, really difficult. it's really hard. that's a testament to how great this generation is and how great all generations that have chosen

to serve in the military are, that they were able to do this, and that they were able to serve their country and then come home and try to become leaders. >> an iraq vet from augusta, georgia. jeff? >> caller: how's it going, tom. jeff santos. >> wow. >> caller: i was flipping through a channel and thought i'd call in. i appreciate what you're doing and i totally agree. you kind of levelled the playing field out there because my father was a vet and when he retired, it was more about who you knew than what you know. so what you're doing is great. i appreciate, i know just about less than 36 months out from retirement myself, i'm definitely going to use your services and i appreciate that. >> well, jeff and i were platoon leaders to the in iraq and he's an old friend of mine and, god, it's great to hear your voice, man. they're your services, bro. you earned them.

you fought really hard. we were there together. and thanks. thanks for talking. go ahead and give me a call, shoot me up on facebook and we can talk more, man. it's good to hear your voice. glad to hear you're doing well, and congratulations on almost retiring. >> one more call, margaret arkansas, republican line. >> caller: yes, thank you for your service, sir. i apologize for the american people, for the two absolutely despicable calls that hurt the military. oh and also on the one newt gingrich didn't get the million, the companies got that. he got $35,000. it's not right to lie. i thought it was just a presidential ploy there. >> we're running short of time, ma'am. so if you good ahead. >> caller: okay. on the head injuries and this post traumatic stress, sir, dr. janet mccarroll, you can get her online, maccar, the problem that is in this is natural health,

and the military isn't using it. i called fort campbell, kentucky and told them about it. they're doing it already in san antonio. painstresscenter.com. when you are under huge stress, it depletes the amino acids in your brain, and that's what makes your neurotransmitters work. it's that simple for the most part. you can take amino acids in capsules. i had called -- well, anyhow, to make it plain, they're already working with them in san antonio, and this is urgent for our troops. >> thank you, caller. we'll leave it there. your final thoughts. >> well, thank you for calling. and honestly, just really quickly to respond to that, there are a lot of things that the dod and the va needs to do helped integrating back into society. the biggest problem that we've had with a lot of people with coming home is we come home to a lot of indifference.

we come home to after having, you know, extreme sacrifice in the military community, coming home to an american community that doesn't necessarily understand or pay attention to veterans issues. we've come home with a lot of respect and handshakes. and we thank you for that. i think we need to understand that there are men and women out there though w.h.o. have spent the last decade fighting a war, and that they need to come home. they need a job. they need to get an education. and they need to be reintegrated back in society. these are the men and women who are going to be our next members of congress, who are going to be our next business leaders. and that's held true for almost every generation since. i want to thank the american people for everything that they have done for us thus far, and that we still have a long way to good to keep forging this new greatest generation. >> the website is iava.org. tom tarantino serves as the senior legislative associate of veterans of america. thank you for your time. we're joined by rick maze,

the army times congressional editor. you have been writing and reporting quite a bit lately on the issue of unemployment among veterans. what have you found? >> well, i found that the problem is bad and it's not really getting better. it seems like no matter what they really try to do in congress and the united states, it's really stuck particularly for young veterans. and it could go higher, considering how they're really having trouble finding jobs. >> in a recent article you point out the concern. the real concern is over members of the national guard, and less so in the reserve in particular. explain that a bit more. >> well, these are young people that they're 24 years old and below. and a lot of them didn't have jobs before they deployed to iraq and afghanistan. an when they good home, they still don't have jobs. so they're showing up on the unemployment rates. and unlike other people, they've sort of lost out on that opportunity to have a strong skill that is going to help them right away. and they're left sort of without any help at the moment. >> why do the veterans of the

regular service have a lower unemployment rate? >> well, it's not the veterans. well, in part serving longer. so they are going to stay in eight to ten years or a little bit older when they're looking for work. and in general, employers are more likely hire people over the age of 24 than below 24. >> there is a hearing coming up on capitol hill next week focusing on this issue. what are you expecting out of that hearing? >> well, they're looking at ways to do something tangible about this. they passed a large bill into accidental law last year, the vow to hire veterans act that has a lot of programs aimed at retraining them and trying to help in the transition to civilian life. they're looking now for more improvements they can the along that way. how can you help people get maximum use of the gi bill, what kind of job training, what kind of rehabilitation training programs for disabled veterans. those are the kinds of things they're after. i think they're going to move

probably pretty swiftly on that. because in an election year having a large group of unemployed veterans is something people don't want to have to face. >> heading into the next fiscal year, the administration has proposed money specifically for jet rans and jobs. is this on top of what the congress passed you said last year? >> well, congress passed authorization last year. they didn't provide very much extra money. they're trying to do much of this on the cheap. in the $140 billion veterans budget for 2013, there is $1 billion in the va budget for the -- president obama's initiative, the veteran's job corps. and we still don't really know exactly what that's going to include there are some members of congress that have proposed a conservation element to that where people would go out and work on conservation projects. but we haven't seen the legislation. so we don't know what that billion will do, how many jobs it will produce, and over what period of time. >> an update from rick maze, army times congressional editor. thank you for joining us.

since 9/11, about 2.4 million american personnel have been deployed to iraq or afghanistan or both. during that time 1.3 million have returned to either the national guard, reserves, or left the military altogether. the unemployment rate for iraq and afghanistan veterans has fallen over the last year from 15.2% to 9.1%. but still exceeds the national average of 8.3% of americans nationwide. >> the house veterans affairs last year to examine the availability of health services for veterans suffering from mental trauma. during the first part of the hearing, members heard from an iraq war veteran who testify head spent his disability check on, quote, booze and strip clubs. marine combat veteran daniel hanson said that he may have received help earlier for post-traumatic stress disorder if his disability pay had been contingent on his getting treatment for drug and alcohol abuse.

his testimony is about 1:10. >> thank you to our witnesses who are in attendance.orni is entitled, mental health, bridging the gap between care and compensation for veterans. on may 10th the united states court of appeals in the ninth circuit issued a decision that was heavily critical of the care and compensation that va provides to veterans with mental illness. the court cited va's unchecked incompetence and the unnecessary grief and privatation that delays in treatment and benefits cause veterans and families. i am not here this morning to judge the court's decision. i'll leave that to others. the heart of the court's analysis of the issue is something with which all of us need to be concerned. namely, is va's system of care and benefits improving the health and wellness of the veterans that are suffering from

mental illness? on behalf of a grateful nation we've invested heavily in this system over the last decade to improve access and make treatment options that expert says are effective more readily available. but the question remains, are veterans, especially those returning from combat, with the invisible wounds of war, on a road to recovery and able to live full and productive lives? recovery, restoration, and wellness. these should be the overarching objective of all va's programs. yet when i look at the trends in disability ratings for veterans with mental illness i see a very confusing picture. on one hand we have a medical system that boasts of evidence based therapies, improved access, and high quality of care. on the other hand we have data from va indicating that veterans with mental illness only get progressively worse.

these confounding facts raise the question, are va's health and disability compensation programs oriented toward va's mission of recovery and wellness? and i'm not the first who has noted this trend or suggested the need for close integration of va programs. in 2005 a report from the va inspector general concluded the following and i quote. based on our review of the ptsd claims files, we observed that the rating evaluation level typically increased over time indicating the veterans' ptsd condition had worsened. generally once a ptsd rating was assigned it was increased over time until the veteran was paid at the 100% rate, close quote. we have a 2007 report from the veterans' disability benefits commission and we'll hear from the chair of that commission on our second panel this morning. it recommended, quote, a new,

holistic approach to ptsd should be considered. this approach should couple ptsd treatment, compensation, and vocational assessment, close quotes. most recently, we have the administration raising red flags. in its fiscal year 2010 performance and accountability report va commented on how well its veterans benefits administration collaborates with the vha when providing services to veterans with mental illness. the report suggested that with recovery as the essential goal to helping veterans with ptsd that perhaps vba and vha were working at cross purposes. let me quote from that report. the advent of the recovery model is central to the treatment of mental health and disorders. the current system fails to support and may even create disincentives to recovery. close quotes. today we're going to move beyond the numbers that simply tell us how many veterans use the system and get into the fundamental

question of whether they are on the road to leading full and productive lives. for veterans who don't seek va care we need to know why they're not seeking that care. we need to know if there are inherent disincentives to recovery. we need to know if the quality of treatment provided at va is a reason to c we need to know what is effective and what is not effective. quoting from a recent policy paper from the wounded warrior project, va's focus on the high percentage of veterans who have been treated begs such questions as how effective was that treatment? how many more need treatment but resist seeking it? and i couldn't agree any more. it's our duty of this committee to ask these tough questions and the veterans for whom this system was created demand it of us. we were fortunate to have with us on our first panel mr. daniel hanson. dan served in iraq then came home troubled in mind trying to

cope with the loss of so many of his fellow marines. this is a story i hope everyone listens to closely today. it's a cautionary tale of where we may be inadvertently headed. looking back, dan has some interesting thoughts of what would -- it would have taken him to get into treatment sooner. it's just as important. he's got something to say about how he ultimately found help outside the va system. on our second panel we have dr. sally satele resident scholar at the american enterprise institute. dr. satele will share with us the principles surrounding what she believes would be a more effective system of care and compensation for veterans seeking mental health treatment. as i mentioned, we also have the former chairman of the veterans disability benefits commission with us, general terry scott. we also have a va clinician, dr. karen seal, who will share with

us her findings on health care utilization of iraq and afghanistan veterans. finally, on our third panel we'll hear from the administration and their views and the views of two important veterans' organizations, a.m. am vets and the wounded warrior project. i want to thank everyone for coming, those who are going to be testifying, those in the audience. i now yield to our ranking member, mr. filner. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you for taking the leadership on this subject. of course, we have all raised serious concerns over many years about the backlog of claims and there are now a record number of service men and women returning home with scars from the war. now is simply not the time to delay their benefits. the report you mentioned that was released last year by the va inspector general focusing on the delay of our service members getting an appointment for medical exam in order to process their claim for compensation is just one more example of how the

va seems to be failing our veterans. that system has many obstacles for our warriors by putting them through numerous medical exams for each individual ailment for which they are filing a claim. the va i think could easily streamline this process and allow the veteran to receive one complete medical exam to expedite the claims process, alleviate the stress on our veterans, and save our veterans and taxpayers money. you mentioned the recent decision by the ninth circuit court of appeals in veterans for common sense and veterans united for truth. versus kentucky. and that decision of course found that veterans have a property interest conferred upon them by the constitution to both va benefits and health care. ruling for the veteran plaintiffs the ninth circuit went a step further to conclude that because there are property interests delaying access to health care or the adjudication of claims violates veterans' due process rights guaranteed by the fifth amendment.

unlike you, who don't want to take a judgment on that ruling i fully support the ruling and i'm disappointed va hasn't done more, more rapidly to fix the problem. we know every day 18 veterans of this nation commit suicide. we also know 1 in 5 service members of our current conflicts will suffer from ptsd. and unfortunately the suicide rate for these brave men and women is one suicide every 36 hours. many of them as outlined by the recent ninth circuit court ruling will be left undiagnosed, untreated, uncompensated. this is a travesty and an outrage. last year the va inspector general's office made recommendations for the veterans health administration, veterans benefit administration, to collaborate more effectively and share information on issues affecting the timely delivery of exams. i'm disappointed as you are, mr.

chairman, that we are still discussing this issue 15 months after those findings and recommendations. the va is simply not committing sufficient resources to meet the demands of our warriors when they return home. i hope the va will address these shortfalls and i expect them to come to the table with a plan to fix the problem. mr. chairman, i like you look forward to this testimony. >> thank you very much. i would like to call to the witness table dan hanson if you will. he's joined by his wife, heather. they're from st. paul, minnesota. he did join the marines in 2003. we appreciate you being here, sharing your story. thank you for your service to our country. you are recognized for your statement. >> thank you, mr. chairman. appreciate the opportunity to speak in front of the men and women that change our country so thank you. i'll get into why i'm here with the brief testimony.

grew up in south st. paul, minnesota. came from a large family. went through high school. eventually joined the marine corps after two of my brothers did before me. i actually thought about joining the air force, but they said they would break my arm. so i joined the marine corps and in 2003 and shortly after i was deployed to iraq in 2004. it was a deployment that started with one of our marines shooting himself in the head. just kind of brushed that under the table. and then 34 marines, we lost throughout the deployment, had about 400 -- 450 marines injured. came back and went on leave and that was that. started drinking pretty heavy, dealing with nightmares, dealing with things that i wasn't really prepared to deal with i would say. and i think one of the biggest reasons that i dealt with it

myself was just because, i mean, i was in a battalion of a thousand marines and i don't think people wanted to hear, you know, my whining and complaining. so then shortly after we went on another deployment, noncombat, which just kept on drinking, kept on masking my issues with whatever -- whatever would take away any of the pain. came back and then about six months later my unit was deployed again to iraq. this time i was in the remain behind element so i was kind of able to see the other side of things when we would get the casualty reports. we would get the kia's in and have to notify and take, you know, be on that end of things as well. i decided i was going to get out of the marine corps but i was persuaded by a good friend,