and then i've done physical thorn for my back and neck. as far as mental health goes, i've pretty much done no follow up. >> i wanted to assure you and make sure that you know as minnesota's only member of the delegation that's on this v.a. committee, i spend a lot of time at those. three weeks ago, i was in the in-treatment facility there and met with dr. ball, the administrator and talked a lot. i take the job very seriously of seeing what's working there. and i think it's important to know that we are having successes there, which you've got friends that have probably gone through there and were having that. i also want you to know any time there's a failure in anyway, my job is to get the end of it. and with jonathan and my staff have spent countless times understanding what happened there, where things went wrong, what we could have done better, what the outcome was. you need to know that you coming here and testifying gives us the motivation, if you will, makes it very clear to us what our job is to try and deliver. and what we're trying to figure out is how do we best treat and

care for folks like yourself? how do we do it in a way that respects your personal freedoms and your right. but how do we make sure that you are given the opportunities to enter back into society? and i think you keep bringing up a very good point. and i hope the committee does. this holistic approach. i'm very concerned with the employment issue. you know this as well as anybody. a good job is a good way to start getting better. if you can get that and hold onto it in conjunction with therapy. one of the problems we've had is we've let some of those programs for hiring veterans lapse. but you're working now, right? >> no, sir. well, i do do some work, it's volunteer for minnesota teen challenge as a veteran's affairs liaison. but i do go to school full time at northwestern college. >> using g.i. bill? >> it's working for you? >> it's working great for me, sir. >> so your wife and family are able to get by, provide your housing, food and things like that. >> yes, sir. i'm sure i would have no problem getting a job right now.

>> what if those benefits were held back until you got treatment? >> the post -- that -- that's a very good point because i, all the way up until i went into minnesota teen challenge, i was utilizing those. i was going to school full time. and that -- the biggest reason was i did want more money. and i was getting disability. but i was also, hey, i can go to school full time and get this money. but if that was held back, i think that would have really done a good job of pointing me in the right direction, saying, okay, they're serious now. >> a >> for you, holding it back would have motivated you to it. >> absolutely. they said you can't go to school and we're going to pay for it until you get help. if we look back in your history and your doctors appointments, you need help. here's your incentive. go get help. >> i've been spending a lot of time reading the literature on this to try to see, overall, how many times that works or what it does. so that's helpful to me, again. thank you for your service.

i appreciate your service in coming forward, talking about these issues. and i assure you i think we've learned during this conflict, at least i'd like to believe this, i think especially as senior ncos, we're getting better of seeing this issue of mental health parity and earlier treatment is the best way to go instead of just sending you back to fend for yourself. so that's not the right way to do it. so thank you for that and thanks to your family. i yield back. >> thank you, sir. >> dr. benchek, you're recognized. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. hanson, thank you so much. i want to commend you on your courage for being here today and providing us with that testimony because i can tell it wouldn't be easy for me to give that story if it was me. so i really commend you and your wife for being here today and i appreciate the education. i just have a couple of simple questions. was there any kind of -- on your

discharge from the marines, was there any sort of a mental health evaluation upon discharge? or have you been willing to, you know, talk about your problems upon discharge so you could get help? i mean, i -- i was curious about how you were reluctant to seek attention because you felt embarrassed about it. tell me more about the discharge process. >> yes, sir, there's a final physical in which you go through to make sure when you are discharged that, you know, you're a hundred percent, you know. while as when you join the marine corps. and then if you're not, then you get hooked up with the v.a. but, for me, i passed my final physical and they, you know, it was easy for me to say yeah, i don't have nightmares, i don't have this. and that's what i did. they say are you going through any of these things and you just circle no and that's really that.

>> or you didn't have an ev evaluation with someone sitting dope talking about them. >> no, sir. they just basically had me fill out the paperwork and said it looks like you're doing well. i said yes. let me get out of the marine corps now. >> all right. another question i have is tell me more about what you're doing with this group, this team challenge group. what exactly are you doing for the other marines? >> well, with team challenge, basically, i go to different like the v.a. stand down or i'll go to a veteran's eh vanity and i'll have a table and get the word out that, hey, this is a great place for veterans.

it's a good option. it worked for me. here's my story. i'd like to see more people going through that. so anywhere i can, like, i'm testifying at a court case on friday about trying to get someone sentenced there to prison, essentially. he's a combat veteran and they want to send him to prison. so any time i can speak at things like that, get ahold of someone, you know, as a combat veteran or just a veteran -- not just a veteran, but a veteran and steer them into this long-term care. the key is long term care. for me, i've put it off as long as i could. i know i would not be where i am today unless it is a year-long program, and which it was. so that's essentially what i do for team challenge. just go to events, recruit any way i can. network and try to get aholt of veterans that are hurting and get them into the program. >> thank you very much for your testimony. i'll yield back the remainder of my time.

were those organizations able to work for you? >> no, they -- minnesota -- it was more a minnesota teen challenge working with the v.a. the v.a. was open for me to do a program while i was in teen challenge. so, essentially, i had to get it approved by minnesota teen challenge because they have their rules and they have their monday through friday, everything planned out. but i was able to ask them, you

know, can i go to this -- it was cognitive processing therapy. it was about three months. so three months out of the year that i was there, i was able to go to the v.a., go meet with my psychologist and then i would go to a group meeting with some other veterans. and then i would be sent back to the program. so it wasn't really much of a working relationship. i would say it was -- team challenge saying yes, if you want to go there one day a week, you can do that. and then the v.a. setting up a program for that. >> so there could be better cooperation between the v.a. and some of these community-based operations? >> yes, sir. absolutely. and that was something i struggled with and something i continued to try to help with when i graduated the program was being more open to a program like this. because every time i try to talk to people, you know, someone at the v.a. about hey, this is a great program, will you fund this? or can i put up, you know, a sign for people, you know, it was just they didn't want anything to do with it because it's not a government-funded

program. and that's understandable. but i feel it's a great program and hopefully someday there can be a better relationship there. >> i'm sure my office would love to work with you and develop an idea on making that happen or anyone on this panel. i can guarantee you. if you feel like you want to do that, any of our offices would be open. my office, specifically. now, about team challenge, were you compelled to stay there? did you have to stay? >> no, sir, i did not have to stay there. i could have left. there are certain people that are, as i said, the doctor required -- are court ordered there. but, for myself, i checked myself in so i could leave at any time. and there was plenty of times i thought i was going to leave. but i stuck through it, you know, and pushed through a lot of the pain. >> the interesting thing is that you had decided that you wanted to go through the program. that you needed help. that you had reached rock bottom or whatever decision had come to you that you wanted to do this program.

would there be any way to compel folks that need help to go through the program? >> there's a program that's part of minnesota team challenge. it's called the extended care program. that's a 30-90 day program. and if you feel like you're not where you need to be, then you can transition right over into the year-long program where those 90 days that you were already there count towards your year-long stay. so you can get, basically, a small part of what the program is about through the 30-90 day program. see if it's a good fit for you. if it's not, you complete the shorter-term program and you can leave. but if you feel like this is what i need, i'm getting the help i need here, then you just transition right over into the long-term program. >> i'm really glad to hear about this. we just had a tragic case where a young man had a three-day program and he left and he walked in front of a train that afternoon, a few hours after he was released. so clearly, that wasn't giving

him what he needed. he had been through several two-week training programs that didn't help. so i see the value of that. so thank you for your testimony today. >> thank you, sir. >> mr. runyon? >> thank you, mr. chairman. and thank you, mr. hanson, for your service to this country. and i think many people, a lot of times, fail to recognize the sacrifice is life-long. and i think you're a prime example of that in dealing with this. another thing you touched on earlier, and going back to the v.a. stuff, the lack of being a parent. i think sometimes here on the hill, we have lack of ability to have adult conversations, a lot of times. and i think you see that trickling down ainto the administration throughout. it's -- you know, we're treating veterans, but we're not treating veterans. you know what i'm saying? >> yes, sir. >> we're not solving the problem.

>> specifically, to your situation, as you said you were in the program, you know, and you're allowed to go home on the weekends, was there -- obviously, we know the mental issues are underlying. but there's also a substance issue that was there, also. was that being addressed at all on -- say you come in on a monday morning, is that being addressed? or are they just kind of saying, oh, whatever happened on the weekend happened. >> no, they would do like urine tests when we would come back from the weekend and certain things like that. but -- and we did. they had a.a. meetings at the program and things like that, as well. but kind of like you said, i feel like it was a set up program. and while i was there, it wasn't very structured on my individual needs. you know, i -- i agree with you. there is an addiction problem. one hundred percent. but, for me, i think it was much more emotional. i was, you know, a sensitive guy. and i needed something to

address those much more than i did my alcohol. and that's -- i felt solely -- it was either about the alcohol or it was either about the combat. it wasn't about some of the other issues, like the guilt. sure, that ties in with it, but specifically, the guilt and the shame and the hate i had for myself. it was never really addressed what so ever. >> and i know what you're saying, but sometimes i think most people agree with me. it's hard to get to the root of those issues until we get the chemicals out of the way. >> absolutely. >> and i don't think there's -- you know, there needs to be, as you say, specifically tailored to your issue. obviously, your issue kept ballooning and ballooning on the substance issue. we can't treat the mental issue until we get the drugs and alcohol out of the way. and i think it was a -- it was a shortcoming on the v.a's -- on their program within itself there. >> yes, sir. and going back to your question, actually, you know, we would be released on friday afternoon.

well, you can drink friday night, saturday night as long as you stay off the bottle for sunday, you come in and you'll have a clear urinalysis test. so absolutely. i agree with you where, you know, we're in there for a chemical addiction and, yet, you know, we had the opportunity to drink for a couple days, going back, looking like it's all clear, pass the urinalysis test and keep on going. >> i think that says it all. with that, i yield back, chairman. >> i'll defer to my colleagues. >> thank you. mr. hills hcl can? >> thank you, mr. chairman. i additionally want to thank mr. hanson for his courage of being here and sharing his testimony.

i appreciate that. i come from a very rural district in western kansas, and this is sahh story i've heard from a number of my constituents, as well as family members. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you for your service. >> really, just getting passed myself. i knew the options were there, but with -- i -- i was working full time. i was going to school full time. i had a life. i wanted to party. it was getting passed -- it was getting passed the inconvenience of having to get help, whether it be out patient or inpatient. most certainly inpatient was out of the question. there was times i felt like i'd walk out of there feeling

certainly the biggest barrier was myself. getting passed being able to control whether i get help or not was the biggest thing. >> what can the v.a. do to encourage treatment? >> i think maybe just being a little bit more forceful in their approach saying, you know, not just we have these rehab programs. you're definitely a good candidate for them. instead, saying, you know, we have these rehab programs and you need to get help. and, you know, if you don't get help, there's going to be some sort of a consequence. i don't know if it should be financial or you can't get help there. but i just feel like once a person -- it's clear that they need help, possibly somehow it

should be something more assertive. more take charge. you're messed up, we're going to get you into treatment one way or another. not just giving me options as you're a good candidate for help. you need help. >> okay, thank you very much. appreciate it. yield back. >> mr. sterns? >> thank you, mr. chairman. and thank you for holding this hearing. let me, again, reiterate what my colleagues said, mr. hanson, we appreciate your service and your willingness to come here and to be really honest and candid with us. when i read through your opening statement, when you were discharged in the marine corps, you knew you were not a healthy individual. but at the same time, you did not tell anybody. there was a feeling, i guess, in your own mind. you said it in your opening statement that you felt indestructible. that's because you were in the marine corps and you served, yet

you were struggling. you suggested that perhaps everyone should realize that they should get some help and perhaps as an incentive, to have compensation withheld. let me ask you this. do you think if you'd not talk about the v.a., but talk about the military services, do you think the marine corps itself should have briefed you before you were discharged to say, look, it's not being less of a marine if you realize you need help. >> generally i find that persons like yourself are courageous and are willing to give your life for your country. so when it comes to signing on the dotted line that i'm weak

and i need help, people won't do it because they say it's a sign of weakness in america. so had you ever thought -- i know you suggested that as an incentive to not -- to withhold compensation. but is there a way through education, perhaps, that we could have gotten you in the very beginning, either through the marine corps or the v.a. through education? >> yes, sir, i do believe so. like i said, when i got back from iraq and was in the marine corps for a few years after, i was really not aware of any sort of program that i could do while i was a marine. and i had really no idea as far as how that would look anyways. and there's definitely a certain amount of pride that goes along with, you know, admitting that you do have that problem. so when you're coming to work every day with a thousand other marin marines, it's kind of like does

he know? does he know? you know, you don't want to feel like the odd man out. so if there was much more openness, at least when i was in the marine core, to getting help and to at least talking about it or taking the initial steps into at least realizing that there is help, you have a problem and it's okay to get it. and just maybe having some sort of more of an open communication line between the top heavies and on down the chain to the, you know, the privates, pfcs, whatever. that it's okay to get help and here's the way to do it. and you're not going to be looked down if you do. we encourage it. it happens. i think -- and i think it's pretty safe to say if anybody goes to combat, they're changed for the rest of your life. so sometimes there's more, you know, more case-to-cases like myself that aren't quite able to

take it as well. so it's definitely based on the person. but i know. >> the merchant marines all have spongesblety to at least let the people in combat know that it's not a sign of weak if you feel you're struggling. >> yes, sir, absolutely. >> and that before you discharge this kind of message should be presented to the soldiers. so he or she snows thknows it's not a sign of weakness. so everybody doesn't think it's a liability on your part. >> absolutely. yes, sir. and i feel like it would be just

as important to get that communicated with the families of veterans coming back -- marines. if i'm not willing to get help, then the pressure from my family, once they know from the chain of command that, you know, there's an open forum, if they're having these issues, nightmares, if they're drinking a lot, you know, talk to us and it's okay that they're all right. we're not going to look down upon them. we're not going to wealth hold a promotion. talk to us. it's okay. it's a marine. he's done this. but keep that open line of communication between the military member and then their family as well. if that person is not apt to go, their family is going to be the biggest reason that forces them into it. oftentimes, i believe it's the family that gets them in and not the individual service member. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thanks for your service to this nation and for your courage to be here this morning. i just have one question. you mentioned that the biggest

obstacle that you had was getting passed yourself and understanding and realizing that there was a need there for help. >> yes, ma'am. >> now, something in team challenge versus the v.a. system, there was a difference in those two programs. what was it with the team challenge that let you get passed yourself that was missing in the v.a.'s approach to mental health. >> well, ma'am, i believe it was really just -- it was a couple things. one, the environment was where -- which i mentioned earlier, was it wasn't a bunch of combat veterans. you know? it was people that, you know, are from all over the state and that had different experiences. but all had problems. and we could talk about our issues. and they were very different but, yet, they were the same. so there was, yeah, a sense of -- it was a lot easier for me -- i feel to let go and talk about my issues with people that didn't know exactly what i went through. and i think, also, in my time at

minnesota teen challenge, i felt that it was much more -- i wasn't a number going through a revolving door. i felt like i was a person that they loved and that they cared about. regardless of what they got paid, they wanted to see me better. and they wanted to see me better for my family, for my kids. and it was -- and the faith-based part of it. once i was getting better, you know, ultimately, hanging onto that religion, hanging onto god has a plan for me. god has a reason for me to live. there's a reason for it. and i can be used and i can be loved and that's -- that was a big part of it, as well, with the faith-based aspect that really led me to believe that you know what, even though everything that happened happened, i'm loved. and i have a future and there's a plan for me. >> thank you very much. and i yield back, mr. chairman. >> your questions? >> my questions are basically

already been asked and answered. i thank you for your service. >> thank you, sir. >> you said that team challenge wanted you to be better? >> yes, mr. challenge. >> you think the v.a. wanted you to be better? >> i do, absolutely, mr. chairman. i just feel that it was -- i don't know if i want to say a generic sort of feeling better, if that even makes sense. but i feel like it was much more at minnesota team challenge, it was much more -- >> personal? >> yes. it was -- thank you. it was much more personal, yes, mr. chairman. >> you said even though v.a. screened you positive for p.t.s.d., there was no reaction on their part? >> no, mr. chairman. i got screened first time and

they said that i was fine. and then in a follow up appoi appointme appointment, they just gave me a random survey in which i answered positively to on several questions on a scale of one to ten and then they spent me a follow up pleater that said you seem like you might have some p.t.s.d. issues, so we'd like to do a follow up. then i did a follow up and they suggested some out patient things, but they didn't suggest anything really on a larger scale. >> so, again, we all have voiced our opinion. we thank you for your service to this country, your courage to testify before the senate and the house. we appreciate what you're doing and you're making a difference. with that, we thank you for being with us today. >> thank you. thank you, mr. chairman. thank you. >> coming up next on c-span3, in a few moments, a discussion on the constitutional authority on the president to make recess

appointments. after that, republican senators, democratic congresswoman and special advisor to president obama, michael frohman debate the future of american power. >> who all have we vetted? >> r arcs mney.

>> even a person who's a senator, even a person who's now president of the united states faces a predicament when they talk about race.