solution rather than continue to block. the question of arms you raise are is a deeply disturbing one. why are the russians who condemn interference in syria the ones that continue to be shipping arms in russia? for much of this, senator, we should probably have a discussion with colleagues from other agencies in a different setting. >> well, i'm happy to have that. i just want the administration to be thinking about if we can't get our russian and chinese counterparts to understand, they seem to be doubling down. at least russia seems to be doubling down. you say they seem to be concerned or come to the same analysis that the final result will be that assad would not stand but, however, their flow of arm ament almost seems to be doubling down as well as during transient security council. if that's to have meaning, it

needs to be enforced. i hope at a minimum we would do that because stopping the flow of armaments to assad is incredibly important. let me ask you one other question. what is the possibility of this situation diinvolving into a civil war? and if so, what skern do you have for political and economic for syrian civil war on syria's neighbor, specifically on lebanon and jordan, which will undoubtedly receive thousands of syrian refugees? >> there's already been a spillover in the neighboring countries as syrians oil purchases from syria halting fleeing the violence go to neighboring countries to look for refuge. you have families in lebanon, jordan, turkey, iraq that have taken in syrian friends and relatives. there's already an impact. in lebanon there have been people killed across the border by syrian forces crossing the lebanese border. so there's already a spillover

effect, senator, which is, you know, deplorable. and we salute those families and those countries that are hosting syria syrians outside their borders. we're trying to provide assistance to those host families and governments. assad want his people to believe that it's if it's not for him, there's going to be a civil war. so part of this is a bashar al assad regime believe they have to stick with him. the international community is trying to help avoid that path to avoid the civil war. because all of us to do recognize it is a risk. as ambassador ford said more

articulately than i could say, it a question the mafia that has hijacked the entire state of serious yeah for four decades in order to enrich itself and protect itself against the syrian people. that's what's happening right now. >> thank you. >> senator rich? >> thank you, senator casey. ambassador ford, first of all, i thank you for your service and i applaud here your statement of what our policy is and your conveying that to the opposition and what they need to do and how howe they think about this. your statement about it being a

complex society is an understatement. the difficulty i have is how -- i understand what you're telling them they need to do where everybody's welcome, everybody is going to be equal and what have you. they don't have much of a history of that. and our culture is -- our culture has trouble thinking along those lines because they are so segregated. i mean, they're not like we are where we amalgamate into one society. they are very, very segregated. they marry within their groups, they stay within their groups, they do so longicialize to biz their groups. i hear what you're saying and i think it's a good position to take but from a purely pragmatic standpoint, could you maybe analyze your own analysis of it

from that standpoint? >> senator, risch, it is a very fair question. it is a very fair question. it is the sad truth that not only in syria but in many countries in that region there is no history of rule of law and respect for human rights. i mean, that's just the historical reality. what i would say is just a couple of things on this. one of the things that i have learned from the arab spring, which is really unprecedented in my 30 years working in the region going back to when i was a peace corps volunteer in morocco in 1980, what we've seen in the last year is unprecedented. one of the the things have i learned is there is a new generation coming up and this generation is very plugged in to the internet and it very plugged in to satellite television. they know much more about how to upload different kinds of videos than -- i mean, i'd never

watched youtube until i went out as ambassador to syria. now i watch it every day. >> don't want to know what you watch. >> we won't go there, senator. >> but what i would say is there is no history but the people there that are leading the protest movement, they have a vision, they have a vision and i heard this very strongly when i went to mhoma and when i went t damascus. i heard this very strongly. they want a country where people are treated with dignity, everybody treatedwith dignity. that's the key word, dignity. and they have a country ruled by law. my own experience having served in iraq for four years isthin g

it takes time. saw the same thing in algeria as well when i served there. but there is change coming and values and norms are changing because they are more plugged in to the rest of the planet than they used to be. and syrians are actually surprisingly plugged in to the mediterranean, for example. that was one of the things i learned when i went out there. >> that's an interesting observation and i -- the question i would have is does that spill over to their cultural hard wiring that they have, if you would? obviously they were raised by parents in a society that protected them from the other minorities or other sects in the country. is that breaking down at all? do you see that at all? are they intermarrying? i guess that would be probably the most telltale sign.

>> in damascus there are many mixed marriages, many, many. and no other parts of the country as well. in fact, one of the things, if we had syrians sitting at this table instead of me therks would say to you, senator, but we've always lived together peacefully and we've never never had these problems. we're in the like iraq, we're different. i think one of the things that the political opposition needs to do and we've told them this repeatedly, is they need to address the fierce directly and not simply fall back on the argument that syrians historically have lived together peacefully between communities and therefore to their is no problem flp is a problem and they need to address it. i think the younger people do understand that fear. in the demonstrations every friday where they have the big one, the really big ones, there frequently are banners, this watching it on youtube, which is

a statement saving "the syrian people are one." they are trying to express no sectarian division, don't let the assad community play one community oft other, which is very much what the regime ultimately is trying to do. there are signs all over damascus that the president put up tsaiing beware of sectarian strive. the opposition is saying it's the president that is raising the issue in the first place. >> thank you, ambassador ford. i appreciate your optimism on the subject. i hope you're right. >> senator carden. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> first, ambassador ford thank you very much for your heroic service. we watched what you were doing in syria and i know the international community was also. and it was a bright moment i think for the united states leadership. so we thank you very much for that.

secretary feltman, i think we all degree that there lab tipping point that the assad regime will not survive. the challenge, though, is until that happens, the humanitarian disasters will only get worse. so how many people are going to lose their lives or their lives will be changed forever until that tipping point is reached is a matter of grave interest to all of us. you point out that there's a growing unity in the region, in the arab world, which would i think point out that our options may be stronger than we think. we may have more opportunities try to save lives. i'm very mindful of senator lug a's cautionary notes. we all share that. but i guess my point is what can we do? what can the united states do in leadership to minimize the sufferings that they are taking

place and will take place until the regime is removed. what can we do to provide the best opportunity for the safety of the civilian. lags. and syria during this period of time. >> senator, thank you. this is a very kwe we're talking about all the time is what can we do ourselves as american but more importantly what can we do together? and the what can we do important question is -- the there

there -- working on people who can get things into von rabble areas. there's a consensus. we're going on sense us whys region to goal. that's an important shore term goal. there as an international of the pressure on assad. we paukd a lot about the -- there's always look at more sanctions in order to deprive the regime from its income. will there as a tres all need to -- in tunis there was a represent paegs that the la--

representation and we're looking at that. but your question hints beyond that. i think we would need to have a larger international consensus than currently exists. one thing that we are definitely working on, going back to senator menendez's question, is to see what role the security council can play. it's past time for the security council to be playing a role that, too, was a con sensensus the people want to see an end by the blocking of china by the security council. >> you're right. i was trying to prove. security council is where we normally start that.

it not the exclusive area, not the determinant ran one that would give us the arab league is clearly important. i would hope that we could work together. you mentioned another point i found very interesting and that is the pop layers of the assad being at the low point. i would nantucket when it pulled out of bass discussion, which is presenting a real challenge for us, a global. can either one of you give us an

update on moss and its movement and how we are going to count ever some of its issues in rerelationship also with iran and other kwis in that reengon. >> i think is betterically persian gulf ut otsgo if you look at theles zogby has an incredtory of being durps eric it keeber outsi-- if

polls today, he's at the bottom of the not lost on even terrorist organizations like hamas. our demands hamas are the quartet demands on ma'am as, which hamas to be accepted as a responsible player needs to accept the quartet cons of recognition israel, renunciation of violence and adherence to all the agreements that have been signed between the plo and israel. so it's interesting that in telling that even -- that even hamas can stomach what bashar is doing to his people but it doesn't change our calculation. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> senator rubio. >> thank you both for being here today. ambassador ford, thank you for your service. it's one thing to sit here and talk about these things.

it's another to be there. a quick question before i get to the bigger one i think this is probably for you secretary feltmen. i read that the head of the venezuelaia oil isn't prohibited from shipping oil. >> it is technically correct that they're not prohibit pd. it's still morally wrong to be doing to use in a machine slaughtering serbians. but it also isn't the same of -- >> that's a conversation for another day. but one of the things we can talk about is how to introduce

third-party support for the assad regime and this brought that to light. i want to posit a story, a view of it to you and see what you both think about it. and here's the way we look at something in a country that for many, many years has been kind of a transit point and haven for terrorists, especially damn discussion has been kind of the hub of all that. in addition a state sponsor of terrorists itself. now the people there say we want to get rid of the guy that unracethis place. there's a lot of internal divisions. we talked about the complexities of all of that. but in the midst of all, including about regime change and a change of direction from the country. but from our strategic point of view, it also a competition for future influence. who is going to influence the direction that syria goes on in future? >> they see this chaos and we can keep advantage of the chaos to our advantage, ecreate an

even better place for us to operate in. on the other hand, nations see to go in and embrace the syrian people and embrace what is their wide spread -- they just want to be normal people living in a normal country with normal and every day aspirations. as much as anything else, our involvement i think is about what influence our view of the world, which we think is better for the syrian people could ultimately play in that country. >> having own been on this commit for a year, having trofld to livia between libyan as the seario wouldn'ted out a couple of days ago. but one of the things i struck by was pro american graffiti on the walls, people walking up to us on the street, and i know it wasn't staged, to thank you for the role america played. i think it's going to be really hard five years from now -- not

impossible. anything's possible. i'm certainly not an expert on the culture. i think it going to be hard for one of those young guys who was thing us and convince him to join some kind of anti-american jihad in the chinese year. >> on the other hand, they're really upset at some of the countries that turned their back at them. i hope that people in syria clearly know that this side of people on the united states are in charge of their as respirations. we clearly want them to be able to pursue peaceful as respirations and have a country that's prosperous. i think in the national interest of the united states it's critical that syrians say america was on our side and we want no part of these strange movements that would have us

join an antisentiment. think think that's what look later if you'd explain with that or criticize it or share your thoughts in that regard? >> i'll let a couple of comments and let robert talk about i sear syria. i can't believe they are trying to get transition are bored out but i think i clear that a questions fo digcy. we've all also twiel how the ever enhaas across the region, the aisle ol have i who have any appeal and terms of the syria, i'll give you one example similar to your experience in labor kra that he would be too modest to raise.

when hamma were being encircled by tanks, the people tossed floors on to his embassy. the people are syria now exactly where robert ford stood in walk of their rights and aspirations and representative ford represented us very laborly in showing where the united states speaker said. >> senator, i think it very telling that they of every year they burn russian burn his la flals. that

-- flags. we want syria to not be the malignant actor had has been supporting terrorist groups and being the cause of a great deal of regional instability. so i think there's huge strateg as a country with the changes going on in syria. but that's not why the syrians are doing -- that's no why the street protest is doing that. they're doing it because they want dignity. and i think it is very important for us as we go forward to keep in mind that the most important thing we can do is keep stressing over and over our support for universal human right being respected in syria like other countries, freedom of speech, free drop to march peacefully, the right to form political parties and to have lifend a rule of law a dignified life. that's what i tried very hard

constantly to underline during my time there. it's going to be hard but if we stay on the track of human rights, we will ultimately be on the side that wins here. >> thanks very much. i'm next in line. i'll try not to use all of my time but assistants secretary feltman, thanks for being here today and for your ongoing public service. ambassador ford, you've heard it before but it bears repeating. we're grateful for your service in so many assignments but especially under the horrific circumstances you've had to face and we're grateful you're with us today. i guess some of us not being on the ground like you were have

difficulty in imagining or even articulating the scale and the gravity of the violence. it's just hard to even comprehend, even though we see the television images all the time, i just can't even imagine what it's like. a number of us have been impatient with what washington has done and has not done. i'll say both the senate and other institutions. soap we're impatient and also frustrated. i know we just had a resolution, frankly i thought it was very weak. i supported it but it wasn't nearly enough. so i'm glad that we're having

this hearing to advance the ball. i wrote down two word here when working with damien and chloe on our staff about the formulation of questions and they are two word that i think make sense for what we're trying to do, at least what i hope we can do. one is solidarity and one is commitment that, we immediate to figure out a way to not just express outrage and not just talk about solidarity but figure out ways to in fact bring about a policy or strategy that will demonstrate, that will prove in a sense our sol d.a. dart with the syrian people. that's one priority. the other is a commitment to a number of priorities but commitment certainly to humanitarian and medical assistance. if we're going to say, as i think it is the consensus

position that, this should not be a military engagement on our part, if we say that, we better get the other part right. and the other parts are humanitarian and medical assistance. my first question is for mr. feltman. i know the friends of syria meeting took place and that was very positive and i know we have a commitment of $10 million to the refugees and idps but i want to get a better sense of what was agreed to at ten tunis, specifically as it relates to humanitarian assistance and what the united states can can do to address it horror. if you can identify what's definite and what will lead to action. >> thanks.

first, how do we hope those countries around syria and that's an easier topic. the families in those countries have been generous. there aren't large- -- for the most part large-scale refugee camps. for the most part people have gone to stay with relatives outside syria. it's a relatively straight forward proposition. the refugee and migration bureau is working that. and the second one is harder, it comes up internally. that's access inside syria. how do you real vulnerable pop layi -- populations inside syria. that's a muchrighnow the proble

humanitarian deliveries in syria is not supplies, it's not relates to money. the international community has sufficient resources, has sufficient commitments. it a question of access. just yesterday you had valerie amos, the humanitarian coordinator, who had been eight waiting in beirut for days for a visa. finally she left. not only it bashar killing his people, butchering his people, but he's also trying to have the international community from having right response. it doesn't mean we aren't responding. unfortunately in today's world there are a lot of conflict situations around the world. there there are a lot of contacts with groups who we've