captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2008 >> i don't know who else you've got to interview, but you might interview bill beck on going back to the battlefield. >> [ inaudible ]. >> talk to bob. and he was gravely wounded, but still commanded his company. >> yes. >> and one of his platoon sergeants, sergeant glen kennedy, shot and killed the sniper that shot bob edwards,

shot his xo, lieutenant harrington. sergeant kennedy was killed later on in may of 1966. it just broke my heart. i visited his wife -- julie and i visited -- when i came back from vietnam, julie and i visited my widows and their families. for several days. we remained in columbus, georgia. a number of them moved elsewhere, like connecticut, one moved with her in-laws. i often think of those days. it was the critical time of my life. that was a battle which changed the war in vietnam. the american war in vietnam. i knew at the outset, and we were hit heavily by those two enemy battalions.

i knew that however the outcome of this battle, major decisions were going to be made in saigon and hanoi and washington. and i knew that we had to win. i knew we would. and general kennard wrote me a letter in recent years saying we had a lot of good battalions. it was the first cav division. i'm glad it was your battalion that ran into that hornet's nest which was a pretty good compliment from the commander general. >> yes, sir. >> but i've gone back to the battlefield twice, once with joe and i wanted to spend the night on the battlefield. the helicopter that took us in

there, russian helicopter flown by two vietnamese pilots. they took the first lift out. but then the second lift, we were stranded by monsoon rain which pounded us for two hours, so we spent the night there. i was able to walk over to my command post and i visualized in memory that some of the dead that we were unable to get out that night. i could see them in my mind, boots sticking out at crazy angles from the ponchos. [ inaudible ].

i vis stead charlie company. specifically i found myself in the fox hole, what was left of it. i remember again him and others as i walked the line saying, not on me, colonel. they won't get through us. carry on, sir. i knew in october of '93 and i grieved. i knew who was going to get killed the next morning. when i looked at all the dead bodies under the ponchos, i knew within 30 hours, 36 hours, a lot of lives would be shattered. but to end up that night after we were pounded by this rain, we

built a campfire that was shown in the documentary to dry out. on the ground was me and larry gwenn and the avc crew, joe galloway. i can't think of who else. just a few of us. we were drying out. and then the night birds, the war of the tiger, clicking of the frogs, chattering of the monkeys. and we were just sitting there in the dead quiet. if you're ever in an area like down in the canyon where there's no ambient light, there's millions of stars up there, millions of galaxies. it makes you think there has to

be a supreme being who created all this. it didn't just happen. suddenly, we were -- we were showered by hundreds of meet rights. what do they call it? flashing stars -- >> shooting stars. >> shooting stars. showers of them. i had seen and we had seen every now and then one or two shooting stars. but there were hundreds of them. it went on for 30, 35, 40 minutes. and it had to be a super, supra natural event. we were dead silent looking at

this magnificent display in this thunder of silence. and it sort of quieted down, stopped and we were stunned. i don't know who said it. it may have been joe galloway. but it had occurred to us all that those may well have been the spirits of the men on both sides that died in that place in all the battles, the spirits of those enemy, and friendly who died, by the hundreds. saying to us farewell.

you've told our story. we can rest in peace. we can go now. who knows? it may have been. but that is an event which has never occurred before or after in any of our lives. and i have been in dark canyons and been back to the battlefield. i've been in other battles in vietnam where it's quiet at night on occasion. never have i read about or seen such an event. so i don't know who you're going to interview, but i hope they follow my guidance of telling the truth as they saw the truth.

good or bad, good or bad. made mistakes, like i told you about mistakes i made. this is history. >> [ inaudible ]. >> i don't know who is going to watch or listen to all these oral histories, but i do hope that -- >> you're speaking the the future right now. people will be listening and watching for generations. >> that's good. i wish i could have listened to what happened at little big horn, valley forge, petersburg. >> what do you want to say to these people who will before listening? >> what? >> what would you like to say to these people who will be listening a hundred years from now? >> my message to any viewers or

listeners or both to these oral history tapes which vietnam center is accruing, i hope that the major lesson you remember in whatever walk of life you're in, military, civilian world, political world, hate war but love the american warrior! that's my message down range. i got to go. >> thank you, sir. >> i hope it was helpful. >> absolutely. join us next weekend for more oral histories from the vietnam archive. that airs saturday at 8:00 a.m., sunday at 3:00 p.m. and monday at 4:00 a.m. eastern. for more information and to

watch past oral histories, visit our website, c-span.org/history. congratulations to all this year's winners of c-span student cam video documentary competition, a record number of middle and high school students entered a video on the constitution and you, showing which part of the constitution is important to them and why. watch all the winning videos at our website, student cam.org. join us in april as we show the top 27 videos on c-span. and we'll talk with the winners during "washington journal." you're watching "american history tv," 48 hours of people and events that help document the american story. all weekend every week end on c-span3.

good evening everyone. >> good evening. >> 1955. i was 12 and i had hair. my dominant impression of those times and myself as a young man were best expressed i think in the accuracy of the supreme court's decision regarding brown verses the board of ed, separate and unequal. african-americans my age often reminisce now about the cohesion that existed among our people at those times and how you could send a message to one another on a bus just with a glance if someone were acting inappropriately. we talk about the strong unity of purpose, the bonding over the rightness of the cause, the strength of our institutions then in the community like the church or the social organizations like the elks. but we were separate. i, for instance, had never been to the home of a

nonafrican-american. baltimore was ending what had been two separate school administrations, and i had met dr. jackson, the colored superintendent who was headquartered in a white frame house on the property of booker t. washington junior high school, not on 25th street. residence lines were sharply drawn. if you read read read from "not in my neighborhood," just how sharply. for instance, my family living in an apartment on madison avenue in a townhouse, we children did not dare play with the children of the appalachian families who moved into the unplumbed garages with no water, no plumbing, on you tao place and right across the alley from the back yards of our townhome apartments on madison avenue. we were unequal. when i was younger, i remember visiting dad with mom at huts her's where he was a window dresser and he had been told he

would never, ever be able to rise to a higher level of employment. that's how he migrated to become one of the first people on the police force as it integrated. i remember passing the cafeteria in huts her's and i could see the crystal chandelier, but we went to eat lunch with dad by going down into the basement and walking among the pipes that led to the colored cafeteria. going to city then and being the class that entered in the fall of 1956 after that supreme court decision was a watershed in my life because it opened up the doors to new worlds, new companions, new experiences. i believe that our youth today still have a very strong sense of the disparity in society. they have, thank god, a far weaker sense of the boundaries that can separate. but that can be a deceptive

sense of weakness because we are still working toward a post racial society. we're not there yet. and those of us in the room, all of us really, who do not think or live within a racial paradigm, must not think that many or even most others are where we are, not yet. that's still our work. if our youth know our stories, not because we went through it, but because it highlights our journey as an american family along a continuum, then they can better plot just where they are now as we move toward this wonderful goal of an inclusive society and an absolutely unified american family. the people in front of me have far more expertise to share on the topic we're discussing tonight. dr. helena hicks was a morgan state college student in 1955.

were denied service at the reid's drugstore in downtown baltimore. they decided to stage a sit-in, one of the earlier in our country. it was completely impromptu, she says. a front page headline in the afro american read "now serve all" after the success at reid's. the impact of that sparked a firestorm of protests which resulted not only in the desegregation of reid's, but also the shutdown of the white coffee pot restaurant chain where patrons refused to cross pickett lines. larry gibson, my school mate at city, raised in baltimore, attended howard university in washington, d.c. from 1960 to 1964 where he was student body president and chairperson of d.c. students for civil rights. i've always known him to be an advocate. his long career as a civil rights attorney, professor of law and political adviser includes defending the black

panther party, becoming university of virginia's first black law professor and serving as the maryland state chairman of the clinton-gore president campaign. most recently traveling internationally serving to the president of liberia and africa's first democratically elected female president. dr. barry landerman was one of the original interviewers for the mckel done jackson oral history project. among his notable interviews were james heparin, police commissioner of balt plor in the '50s. governor mill larpd taos, david w. zimmerman, former deputy superintendent of the state department of education and governor mckel don's son, theodore mckel done junior. dr. landerman received his dock rat from temple university section vd as the first chair of the oral history association's committee on education and as founder and past president of the oral history in the mid

atlantic region. dr. michelle scott, an associate professor at umbc and her work specializes in the study of race and ethnicity in the american experience with emphasis on african-american history, black musical culture and women's studies. dr. scott has contributed to the martin luther king junior papers project, volumes two to four and the fourth coming colombian guide to african-american history from 1939 to the presented. william f. soez zi was a reporter in baltimore for nearly 20 years before leaving the newspaper to write for television in 2002. mr. sor zi, a baltimore native wrote for the last three seasons of "the wire," the television program on home box office, hbo, and also acted in the series. if you remembered an ill tempered reporter named bill sor

zi in the fictional sun nusz room, that was he. he and his partner david simon are developing a mini series for hbo about the volatile events surrounding a federal public housing desegregation case in yonkers, new york, in the '80s and '90s. the two are also at work on a book about the rise of the drug culture in baltimore using pennsylvania avenue and its habit ways as a vehicle to tell the story. i would say we're in for aeveni. it's my pleasure to turn the microphone other to my dear friend from "the afro" john. john? [ applause ] >> good evening everyone. can you hear me? make sure the sound is up all right. i guess for all intents and purposes, i'm your captain this evening. so exits are in the back and on the side here. if we loose pressure, masks will

fall from the ceiling. my name is john gar trel. i'm the archivist at the afro american newspaper. i have been asked this evening to be the moderator for this illustrious panel. hopefully, not only will i learn more about the topic of study that will be discussed this evening, but you will as well. we hope that, if nothing else, you can take one thing away from this discussion tonight. what that is entirely up to you. but we don't want the words do fall on deaf ears and to not have an impact on someone this evening. and so to start, i was asked to sort of discuss the role of "the afro" and carl murphy who was the long-time publisher of "the

afro" until he died, from 1922 to 1967 till he died. as an archivist, i'm going to lean on the documents. it just so happens that some researchers were in our archives and taking a look through some things, and they came across this letter. and i think it's appropriate as far as what the role "the afro" served and the role that carl murphy served in particular in the civil rights movement. i wanted to share it with you this evening. it's dated september 5th, 1935. it's from ms. daisy e. lamp kin, who was the regional field secretary of the naacp. although baltimore had a branch beginning in 1912, only three years after the naacp was founded and established, the

early '30s saw membership waning. it saw the participation paning. so this letter begins, mr. carl murphy, dr. murphy, when we talked together in baltimore during april of 1935, you suggested that we have our naacp campaign in october. i planned my schedule accordingly. within the last few days mr. thurgood martial called mr. white, walter white, that is, white's attention to the fact that the community chest and ymca campaigns would be conducted in late october and november and suggested that we get in ahead. because i am depending on your guidance to a very large degree, i would like to know your opinion on the following. i shall arrive in baltimore about september 25th, complete the organization which the committee selected by you shall

have the gun. we shall then be ready to officially launch the campaign within ten days and complete it within two weeks from the opening date. will you kindly send me the names of those on the committee to whom i should write asking their help and the preliminary work. will you secure the place for headquarters with a telephone and select a young woman to serve as my secretary? i have sent these suggestions to ms. jackson -- that's lilly may jackson -- and asked her to get in touch with you. here is where we can sort of solidify what role carl murphy played. i am depending on the publicity which "the afro" will give to form a background and create interest in our campaign. please right me as soon as possible as my schedule following baltimore is depending on your opinion as to the above suggested dates, sincerely yours, daisy e. lamp kin.

so essentially what this letter the field secretary writing to carl murphy saying we're depending on you and "the afro" to drum up membership. and in 1935 they so did. there were meetings that took place throughout the city, and they were able to include over 2,000 new members within the course of a few weeks. and this is on the throws of the 1935 donald gains murray case which took place in early 1935. so in many ways carl murphy and "the afro" are sort of the axis upon which the entire civil rights movement in this era revolves around. i could go on and on, but you want to hear from these lovely people tonight. so we'll begin our conversation -- and that is what this is. conversation amongst u with dr. michelle scott of unbc.

i don't want us to take for granted that anyone in this audience really knows what the civil rights movement is. so my question to you, dr. scott, is if you could sort of frame or define as best as you can what the civil rights movement is particularly because maryland was such a hot bed of activi activity. >> hello. of course, he starts with the really easy question. like define civil rights. when did it start? when did it end? can you all hear me? >> no. >> which microphone am i supposed to be using? thank you. technical difficulty, bear with us.

is that better? can you hear me? the question was the origins of the 1i68 rights movement, when did it begin and when did it end. of course i get the easy question. thank you so much. i'm in the phd is it of teaching "shifl rights in america." i would normally be teaching that course this evening. i see some of my students hiding in the back. i see you. normally historians talk about the civil rights movement and they also begin with how popular culture talks about the movement. beginning in the 1940s with the legal struggles of organizations like the naacp, resulting in cases like sweat verses painter or shelly verses cramer, moving on to more direct action programs in the 1950s with things like the montgomery lost boycott and rosa parks and dr. martin luther king junior as a popular figure, shifting to the 1960s wi, that's generally the

historians have described the civil rights movement. but recently in the last i would say two decades, historians have begun to look at the civil rights movement over a longer trajectory of time. ot beginning in the 1940s, butu argue, looking at the first attempts to fight for civil rights and citizenship amongst african-americans, beginning during the times of reconstruction and emancipation in but really looking at that period of finding legal battles as soon as they were able to. maryland is positioned as an interesting place to do that. when you think of the civil rights movement and i ask my students this question all the time, what images come to mind? what do you think of when you hear civil rights movement? this is the interactive part of the conversation. >> sit-ins.

>> sit-ins. bull connor. marches. >> radicalism. >> radicalism. >> pickets. >> lynchings. so those things don't just all of a sudden occur in 1940 and end abruptly in 1968 when we come to the period of black power. they're beginning as early as the mid 19th century when you're talking about african-americans having the legal ability to fight against those things. historians have termed a new way of setting the civil rights movement, the long civil rights movement, looking not just at the black-white binary, but also looking at how women are looked at, religion, issues of sexuality, issues of new folk kai of gender and trying to be more maryland's place in the civil rights movement is really intriguing because maryland is a border state. so it's neither north, north-south. i had this argument again with my students this afternoon in my

great migration class. it's neither slave or free. there are half as many free blacks living in there are enslaved laborers at the same time. and it's the combination of loonging at both a state that's rural and urban. so in that very confused, complex, nuanced border state, you have other more pop liesed movements that are looked at. so we look at something like the sit-inha borrow in 1960 in north carolina, but not looking at the sit-ins occurring here at reid's drugstore in 1955. we're looking at howie vents are involving the southern christian leadership conference in 1957, but not looking to see how women teachers are organizing trying to receive equal pay in baltimore as early as the 1930s. so baltimore and maryland are a new wave of studies saying they really predate a lot of the earlier struggles that are