classicing. the fights in the streets with the street deal and with the people is just a hopeless thing. >> you did mention the fact that it was a health issue. you mentioned that you smoked cannibis. that is right? >> i would say 50% of my generation did and 75% of my children's generation smoked cannibis and between 3 million and 5 million smokers in the uk. >> that has not been detrimental to your health? >> if i was smoking cigarettes, i would be extremely worried. >> i haven't taken a back seat to that generation. i must confess i have never taken a drug in my life apart from prescriptions. >> i think that's generally wise. there was no need for further confessions.

>> sir richard, the decriminalization, can we get it absolutely clear what you are recommending to the practice in switzerland, am i right? >> what the commission is suggesting is that policies like portugal or switzerland are ones the government should consider experimenting with. governments wish to go further, and deregulating cannibis, that's something which we think governments should experiment because you can make sure that

the quality is good and not too strong. it is found by other magazines and other studies to be less harmful than others. all the commission is saying let's experiment with different approaches. >> therefore i am advocating that drugs and they are sold in super market and alcohol and is there a question much that being your policy? >> the document has not advocated policy as such, but asking governments and organizations like your own to look at what is right for the success countries.

we would not advocate heroin or cocaine to be sold in super markets. >> would i be right to take the view amongst the strongest opponents would be the drug criminals and sometimes as we know it, such criminals acting on the international. we would have a very, very strong interest that the status quo and the governments and the policy should be maintained? >> absolutely. >> it is dleer clear that regul this market by the state would just take away this possibility. we have figures and how they are

gaini gaining between the producer and the consumer in the state. it's clear that i would say the biggest interest and enforcement. >> thank you. >> we had a little bit only. >> considering it as a disease or addiction issue. you can tell us how you managed that politically in the uk, there is a real difficulty with focusing that level of resource on the drugs policy as the public health issue. are we have still had the enforcement and one of the four

pillars who takes the most money. more than treatment prevention and harm reduction. how the process was very interesting. it began with research and solution and i hope and i think your committee will do also a big step in this direction. several parties were looking for a change in the policy. emancipation of emergency. we had a large demand from cities from neighborhoods from families of drug addicts coming to the central government so that we had just to look how to accompany new ways to get on the scientist way to publish the scientific evidence and we have the chance and the difficulty to

vote very often on public issues in switzerland so we have something like 15 votes on local or federal level on the drug policy. each of these campaigns, each of these votes were proceeded by political campaigns and discussions and i would say switzerland became the people who were well-informed on the drug issue. they accepted the change of ours. >> this is a lot cheaper and much more effective. between 60 and 80% of all break-ins are drug-related. if you can treat people and get them off drug, they won't need to get their fix and break in. enormous benefit to individuals in society. if you can treat people. >> also, can we discuss the

specific forms of reduction and treatment that you pursued in switzerland and in particular whether this was maintenance or abstinence based. >> we had always treatments that are still at the same level. the same number of persons entering in that. we had a huge experience with methadone and substitution treatment for over 30 years. this is the largest number of treatments we offer and we have ready to enter it. we have for the same number, more or less, than the treatment for abstinence in the treatment. these people were taken off the street. >> we said earlier this was provided legally. they provide heroin legally. >> absolutely. we have heroin as a medicine

recognized by our medical authority, but i think it's the same here in the uk. the difference with the uk and switzerland is that we didn't allow general practitioners to enter into the treatments. we had specialized clinics. to control on the substance. social integration program. this is the treatment. i think we were quite pioneering in not only middle exchange and every country is doing that, but in consumption and safe consumption rules. and the treatment also.

>> thank you very much. >> into the programs and to a normal life. >> you mean from the budget? >> what was the success rate of the programs? >> to give the numbers and if you want the information afterwards, we have that. we will send that to you. >> thank you very much. >> you refer to treatment to get people off drugs. can i again clarify with the ab o abstinence-based treatment.

to see the most effective treatments. i'm not advocating anything particular. what criteria you would use. >> i'm not an expert on treatment, but i'm sure you recommend that the commission looks at the various treatments that are going on around the world and you choose to recommend the absolute best treatment. >> i am not going around the world, but the policy that institutes. >> one question is going back to comments you made moving the drugs policy from the the home office to the department of health. don't you think it would be best across both departments, the health department would help the individuals you are talking about, but a home office still has to be involved to catch the criminal to move the staff and

it goes along with drugs and money laundering and firearms and people smuggling and trafficking. >> the home office and they can concentrate on the individuals who have drug problems. of the 100,000 people who have minor arrests every year and as i said, 70,000 are given criminal sentences. 20% trying to spend dealing with the minor offenses and that 20% going off to the criminal gangs. they spend over 200 million pounds on paperwork and dealing with the minor offenses. they are going after the

criminal gangs. it is a win-win. >> it is across both departments? >> yes. >> as you heard earlier, the government's drug strategy which has been launched is an intervention and basically to reintegrate people into society. as a major employer, what would you think the business can bring to this? what help do you think major businesses can bring? >> we can try to take people on and find jobs for them because we think we can get people back on their feet again. >> they back on for drug offenses? >> some people with and some people without. employees need to try to do their best to help people get

back on their feet again. >> you just missed them, didn't you? >> not necessarily. hopefully we can find out what their problem is. they wouldn't want to be dismissed thachbl i have a problem. >> they would depend on what they were doing inn stances. >> every company has problems and people who are addicted to smoking or maybe taking too much marijuana. they need to be helped. >> the global commission looks at west africa and suggests that

the development could stifle the emergence of a new market. >> the problem is that western africa is now new and becoming a help in the international roads and also to see an explosion in the consumption. >> i understand that, but you refer to the developments and being offering the opportunity to stifle the market. how do you see that working? >> we are under the leadership of kofi annan and we are looking to bring different leaders in the region and having a better approach of the problem, mainly of the health problem linked with that and also so the police

in this country can fight against the production to have better governance and this is i think what can develop the aid. if it's in the feet of governance fight against production and health issues and police enforcement. >> sorry, i don't understand what you see as being the connection between international aid and i think i'm using the words in the report. stifling. we are seeing a growth in that. we aredevelopment. what steps are you proposing in aid are you propoedsing to stifle that market?told, we hav

what are the needs and i see the main needs and i think kofi annan sees the needs in a technical corporation in a field of public health, police forces and good government. that is the priority. to think just having a better development to avoid the people. >> you referred again to government. you referred to policy. in the report you make a specific suggestion that international aid can effectively stifle the market and provide incentives for reducing drug supply. i can't see that working. >> that was differently from

neighboring countries. what impact did that have and how did they deal with that? . it's no longer the case. switzerland produced the farmers and production and neighbors were afraid that as the netherlands and switzerland might be a place we had to discuss with them about the border and how to avoid this.od

with our neighbors and they understood very well and found our solutions. now on the other side, our leaders and other european countries getting what they are doing. because we had an open policy of open books about what we are doing, they were just visiting switzerland. we had less for drugs than tourists looking at our policy. i received and i don't know how many minsters and city servants can explain what we were doing and they were interested. as you know, germany and the netherlands and belgium followed what we were doing in the description and adapted it for their countries. what was our relationship about the un and the control.

this was a more difficult relationship because we were o blimged and eager to get what we were doing. we had to discuss switzerland at the convention. i think yoeb could really say they were not complying and the commitment was one difference. we are sure that we are in the frame of the convention with the rules. they are still denying this. this was the only measure we took where we are still in discussion how far it fits inside the frame. >> thank you.

>> the source is crucial. and the operation of international criminal and from the list of people on your commissioner's as i mentioned earlier, the former presidents of colombia, mexico, brazil and a number of other countries, that were -- it is the place where the drugs come from. the committee will be going to visit colombia later in the year because 50% of the drugs that come into our country originate from colombia. what did the commission propose as to what should happen and sorts? these former presidents who admit the war has failed, presumably, according to the commission report, what was their recommendation as to what should be done to these people? if the drugs don't come from colombia, then they don't enter the united kingdom. >> take heroin as an example. if you have clinics where people

go to get their methadone or heroin fix, which is supplied by governments, and let's say that that methadone is bought by governments from afghanistan or wherever, then you've effectively pulled the rug out from underneath the drug barons who would, otherwise, been supplying it to the people you've avoided those people in the streets going break and entering to get their money and these people hopefully, when they're ready, you'll be able to send them to clinics. >> you're saying legal purchase of drugs from countries like colombia, are you? >> no. we're saying in the same way, i don't where switzerland got its specific heroin from but in order to have a program to ween people off of drugs, you have to give them their methadone fix or drugs.er until they're ready to

and by the stated ministering it, that immediately pulls the rug under the cartels that they don't have a market anymore. >> federal counselor, it's an international approach, isn't it? one country can't do it on its own as your report indicates. from your level as a former president and someone who deals with these ises forever ten years in switzerland, do you think the mood is changing among international leaders? not just former leaders who have signed up to the fact that they may have made mistakes? cultura among the presence leader ship of these countries? >> yes, i think when you listen to the president now of colombia, if you listen what the president of mexico is saying, they all agree that thplace.

they do not agree with the change at this moment but they know that they can not just come to you continue as they did without putting in question what they did. because, i mean, one of the members of the commission, former president of colombia said -- i worked with -- i was a chief of the war on drugs in my country. and we did very well. but we didn't solve the problem. huh? the fight was on. we could fight but we have a harsher war now in the country and mexico is just now in a situation ofuasi civil war. they know that this is not the solution. they don't know exactly how to change, but they want this debate and -- with this change is existing.

now on the -- in the political consistency. the u.n., we're because, you know, every -- any of these specialized organizations have another conconstituesticonstituent wen the department of public health. in new york, the public health. and it's not consistent, the policing. the secretary of the u.n. is really aware about that and tries to bring together this different approaches of the drug problem. >> thank you. >> and finally, sir richards, as far as the uk drug policy is concerned, this is the quote of a young member of the committee in 2002. who said this after the publication of our report -- drugs policy in this country has been failing for decades and drug abuse has increased massively and the number of drug related deaths has risen substantially and drug-related

crime accounts for half of all crime. he's now the prime minister. you must be heartened that government policy is going to be moving in that direction? >> yeah. i mean, i think that what it illustrates when you talk to any individual in positions of power or responsibility, they know that the current system is not right. and they know that a health-based system is right. and they're just worried whether politically, they can be brave enough to, you know, push it through. and you know, david kameron then was not prime minister. he's now prime minister and obviously, we hope that we can give him -- we hope we can give him the facts to make him brave and actually changing the current policy for the benefit of society as a whole. since you gave me one quote, the

head of interpol, 18 years ago, western governments will lose the war against dealers unless efforts are switched to prevention and therapy. all penalties for drug users should be dropped making drug abuse a crime that's useless and even dangerous. every year we seize more and more drugs and armor and more dealers but at the same time, the quantity available in our country still increases. losing the drug battle worldwide. that was raymond kendall, who was the secretary general of interpol and a well-respected policeman in the snoouk i have no quote to match that. i should declare our -- >> your quote, however, is absolutely fine. >> we should declare our interest and we'll be traveling there when we go to colombia. >> thank you. >> that's not because of your interest in the committssion. i'd like to say we use fuel on

our planes and we don't just fly high with -- >> well, if you want to know whether this was going to be proposed for gentleman lackity can, when people went to mars with your suggestion. >> we'll see if we're allowed to, first. >> sir richards, federal counselor, thank you very much. we kept you longer than anticipated but we're most grateful and if you could send us your notes that would be helpful. >> and good luck on your research. >> thank you very much. okay. order and we'll call the next witnesses. thank you. british prime minister david kameron is in town this week and he and president obama are

headed to dayton, ohio, today to watch a college basketball game and then head back to washington late tonight and then tomorrow, the president hosts the prime minister and an official dinner at the white house. we'll have live coverage of the prime minister's arrival as well as the guests attending toasts there both leaders starting at 6:15. cspan.org will show the guest in its entirety. and live tonight, the alabama and mississippi primaries starting at 7:00 eastern. speeches by the republican presidential candidates from their primary night headquarters along with election results and you can join in the conversation by phone and facebook at facebook.com/c-span and follow us at twitter.com/c-span roadwh. we're simulcasting a portion of politico's coverage. watch the complete coverage of alabama and mississippi primaries on c-span and online

at cspan.org slesh campaiom sloh we have problems of genocide in darfur and a growing problem with iran. we have a lot of problems to deal with and i think diplomatic solutions are going to have to be the answer in the future as we start to deal with the problems coming. >> congressman donald payne, who passed away this week, was the first african-american to serve in the house from new jersey. he was former head of the black congressional caucus and seeervn and foreign affairs. watch the speeches from the house floor and other c-span appearances all archived an searchable online at the krechlt span video library.