place among people in the americas is one of the most remarkable transformations in the history of the human experience. and, again, if they can figure out how not only to cope, but to actually in my judgment triumph over slavery, lay the foundations for everything that we are today with the little that they had, what are we doing with all that we got? so i would hope that the book would in fact become a source of empowerment to each and every one of you. there's a microphone over here to the right. if you have questions, please come to the microphone there. this is, in fact, being taped for c-span, and we would like to get you on camera if you're not too shy.

so any questions you might have, please. yes, sir? >> hi. thank you. i've enjoyed what everyone had to say. you spoke earlier about the shame you had when they began to teach the slavery in your history class when you were younger. and nowadays is another kind of thing. for instance, the only current example that i can think about that in terms of pop culture would be like in spike lee's jungle fever. where one brother was an architect and the other brother who was a crack addict. and there are -- and then i heard a statistic once about most black people are in -- in america -- are only one or two generations away from the

projects. that was another -- i guess my question is -- >> two pages. >> so i guess my question is, has any work been done on -- while it's great that people go for their ph.d.s, whatever, you know, in a sense that might be a new kind of splintering if you come from a lower economic background. i know a lot of kids that deal with that issue. and if you could speak to that. >> with the issue of -- >> a way to lead your family in order to do that. a lot of people. >> coping with the diversities in their family? >> well, no, getting to an elevated status. say in american society and culture. >> okay. >> is anyone understanding what i'm saying? >> no. >> are you saying how -- i mean if he was ashamed of slavery

when he was young, is anything being done today to help people? >> have any current studies on how this works, like how to maintain families with this? >> with problems of drugs and that kind of thing in the family? okay. well, there are all kinds of studies being conducted and a lot of intervention programs and everything else that are in process. the question is, do any of them work? and i'm not aware of anything that's been, you know, developed that "full proof." one of the things that certainly adds a value level that's important for us to remind ourselves of every day is that that brother or that sister ends up on crack or in drugs is still a brother or a sister.

and our churches, our families, our other organizations, however much we would -- we are, in fact, at times embarrassed by their condition, however much that is, in fact, the case. we nonetheless have a collective responsibility to try to figure out how to bring some degree of support and nurturing and development to that individual. that's the least we can do given what people have done for us to get us where we are. yes, ma'am? >> good evening. i have two questions. one, as you were speaking about being under the tyranny of losing your children, would you speak to how the people,

especially mothers, got back at the enslavers. i mean how much poisoning was done? because as you spoke being a mother i know that would be the first thing i would think about doing, i'm getting you back. and the second thing i'm in a process of reading "criminal lives in a race" and there's a lot of materials about those who freed blacks and the freed africans. could you speak about free and freed africans during the time of slavery. thank you. >> on the first question. yes, there were poisonings. one of the things that were talked about not knowing a lot

about the institution and people thinking of, you know, how did you let people do this to you? people think in terms of slave rebellions as always a gang of people getting together saying tonight it's own. on. and this is going to be it. but there were many other ways of resisting. you can go through old newspaper clippings talking about -- newspaper microfilm talking about slaves who were, you know, being punished or had been punished or there were poisonings and slaves were suspected of it. they constantly lived in terror of that, of being poisoned because they knew how people felt about them. there was this sort of public face of, you know, our people love us. but they were always afraid of them and they had good reason to be afraid of them because those things did, in fact, take place. there was that. as far as coping mechanisms for mothers.

i just can't imagine what they could've been. if you think about as you said as a mother yourself. and i'm a mother, and when i was at this exhibit, you go around and you see these things and you're reminded of them. and last night when i was watching the documentaries, just unfathomable that people could live like that and could, you know, could make it through those kinds of things. it's funny, i should say i brought my students to the exhibit. and i think only -- i mean it was a seminar and there were about 15 or 16 people in there. i think one white student showed up but the rest of them were black, and they were very angry when it was over. it was probably a better thing that the others didn't come because they were -- it was a very -- after seeing these things, because you hear about it. but when you see people, you see the bill of sales and things of that nature, these were human beings treated like that. there was just tremendous anger across the years from people even imagining it.

so the answer to your question was there were ways, people were poisoned. not just for the sale, but just for, you know, just because of the nature of the circumstances that they were in. and they were, in fact, in fear of these people even though they pretended they were not. >> that's, i guess, the reason why i was saying earlier that this system of slavery was in constant state of frankly disequilibrium. but the myth and the presence or state power always tried to create the impression that was not the case. but everybody who was trying to control the negro knew that it was very unstable. i'll just speak to your question about the free black population. free blacks were an anomaly in a society that was supposed to be free from slaves. and all the free people were supposed to be white and all the slave people were supposed to be black. and the free black population actually became the kind of

ideal that the enslaved african population aspired to. so the -- many of the southern states at least passed laws after the revolutionary war period requiring that blacks had -- free blacks had to move out of the state once they gained their freedom. and many of the states in the midwest especially came in with constitutions that said that free blacks couldn't move there. so very, very severe constraints. one of the very important lessons to be learned from reviewing the history is that the civil rights movement, which we think of as a 20th century phenomenon actually begins during slavery with the free black population because they're placed under the many kinds --

there's the rosa parks of the 1840s in new york and philadelphia. but streetcars was what they're being put off of. and the same kind of racial restrictions that emerge in the south in the latter part of the 19th century have, in fact, manifested themselves in urban areas during the period of slavery. and people organized to try to get their civil rights now that they were "free." so you had this dual struggle going on. >> because it's important, unlike the roman slavery where if a person were freed, they could become a citizen of rome and enjoy full rights and become prominent people. this was a closed system. and people were freed, but as he suggested, they were not citizens, they didn't get citizenship. it was just the freedom not to be directly under the control of a master. so free blacks were in a very precarious position better than

slaves, but not much better than slaves because they were not citizens and they were not part of the culture. >> well, i was particularly thinking about this because i was thinking about the colonization movement that was right after -- between the period of before the cotton gin and the war of 1812, there was a colonization effort to remove all freed blacks from america and to send them to liberia. now, my -- one of -- two of my ancesto ancestors, two of my great, great, great grandmother's children were freed to colonized liberia. she lost two of her children that way. what she did to cope was to earn enough money to buy her own freedom and the freedom of most of the rest of her children, which she was able to do. she was very fortunate because she had a skill. but that -- i mean the colonization efforts and there were free blacks in the north

especially james horton who was a revolutionary veteran and the ministers robert allen. and this was -- to fight this saying no, we will not be sent out of this country. we will stay in this country because part of our job to stay in this country is to help free the people in the south. >> one of the other things about the free black population is that they were frequently, certainly those in the north were frequently run aways. not even a generation removed from slavery. they are run aways who are now exercising some degree of freedom in northern urban areas and they in a very real sense become a kind of advance guard for the struggle of freedom representing the interest of the enslaved african populations in abolitionist societies other kinds of things like that. let's take these two questions and then we'll take one back to

back and use that to close out our program. >> as you outlined the underestimated impacts of -- that blacks had on this hemisphere, preparation came to mind. and i've had a number of conversations over the last few months about reparations. and it always amazes me how angry a lot of my white friends get with even the mention of it. i'm just wondering, i'm wondering about your thoughts on like what could happen or what we could do to reach a place where we could speak, you know, civilly and articulately about it. >> okay. yes, sir? >> first of all, i'd like to thank each of you for a very informative discussion about enslavement.

i would like probably, ms. buckley, you probably have more expertise on this. but to speak briefly about societies where you had escaped slaves together with indigenous americans and rebelling against the system of enslavement and forming their own indigenous society outside the arm's reach of the institution of enslavement. >> you know a lot about it, obviously. after the revolution there was a huge maroon colony in georgia who had formally been fighting with the british. and it took several years for them to be wiped out of what they were. what they would do, they would go into the towns at night and hide out in the swamps and the bayous in the daytime. and they were a very, very powerful force. and they called themselves something like the kings, the king's regiment, they were still

feeling british. and because the british did promise freedom and give freedom indeed to most of the people who went into their lines in the war. the seminoles were an interesting part of american history. this was one of the most expensive wars that america ever fought was trying to get rid of the seminole problem. and the seminole, this is a creek word meaning run away were indians and blacks who banded together in florida in a kind of maroon situation to do battle against the slave owners. and there were two seminole wars, and finally at the end of the seminole war, the last one was general andrew jackson who had led black troops in the war of 1812, part of his line was black troops, free new orleans

blacks, many had been pirate. but he was the final conquerer if you will of the seminoles and there was a forced march of seminoles west. into kentucky after the war of -- right after the war of 1812 in the final seminole war. >> but there were maroon colonies all over the hemisphere. >> and there are remnants of those communities today in jamaica, in colombia, in ecuador. mexico. and i think some of the areas -- some of the population in the swamps in north carolina still a very large maroon population there. and virtually every instance, it's people, again, deciding that they're first of all going to get out of this condition of slavery and be -- they're going

to try to organize themselves into a new kind of social formation that can define and advance their particular interests. i wanted to respond to your question, a young lady's question about the reparations. the case of reparations is quite clear. in my mind. and what those who will argue against it will want to do is individualize it rather than deal with it based on the corporate nature of the experience that was inflicted upon blacks. this is not me walking up -- a white person walking up and smacking me. it's not a white person, a single white person even enslaving me. this is a system that's made legal by state government, by

city government, by federal government. it's a system that they say is operated under the law of various corporate entities involved in slave trading and everything else. and in a place like new york city which people generally think is far removed from slavery. or a thought was far removed from slavery. when south carolina decided to secede from the union to start the civil war, the mayor of new york recommended that new york secede, as well. city council voted it down, but the reason why he recommended it was because the new york economy would intricately linked, tied to the cotton plantation economy of the south.

ships didn't go from the south directly to europe. they came to new york and were sold here before so they could make their take before it was sent overseas. and so this was really a national phenomenon. and supported by national, state, and local law. and the exploitation oppression and all that did not stop with the profits made by the planter. profits were made all along the line by every time the goods that the enslaved population grew, moved from one place to the other. so it's not -- i'm probably getting into too much detail. bottom line is that in my mind, the case for reparations is clear on behalf of the group that are descended from that enslaved population.

and any reparations, claims should be made to the international law says that the intent of reparations payment is to try to restore the offended party to the condition that they were in prior to carrying out the offense. and so that's what if you want to ask a question i think what does america owe black folk? that's what they owe. get us back to where we would have been had we not been put in slavery. and that's going to cost somebody some money. anyway. any other comments, closing comments? >> i think you've said it. >> one thing i will say about it, though. i think the chief value of the discussion is that it puts the

economic aspect of slavery on the table. it was such a horrendous thing that i think some people try to brush that side of it off by saying it's too much, the human cost is incalculable. but by talking about reparations, you make people understand that this wasn't done for nothing, you know. this was for money and a tremendous amount of money and that is something that needs to come into the debate as we talk about the sales and all those kinds of things. people benefitted from it. and that is something that this makes clear. >> also, the slaves were freed without absolutely nothing. they were free to do anything they wanted with the nothing they had. lincoln just said, okay, you're free. you can't say that to 6 million people who were there who had never been off their plantations who never earned a living, who had never been allowed to be educated. so you were stuck right where you are. so and as it was, they were put

back into something that was practically as bad as slavery, sharecropping. this is not the time to talk about economics, we have a lot of things to spend money. >> we have a big deficit. and we do have these other big projects we must do. but that's notwithstanding this issue needs to be really at the center of the nation's agenda and public discourse and i hope that forums like this and other events around the country will be a means of keeping it before the american public because it basically to go back to my earlier statement, america as a nation can't go forward until we figure out how to deal with the phenomen phenomena of slavery. and i thank you for coming out today. books are available. and we'll be out to sign.

next week on "history bookshelf" allan carlson discusses his book "the american way." mr. carlson claims the traditional family unit was a pillar of america's national identity and move away from that component diminishes american culture. history bookshelf airs every saturday at noon eastern. recently, american history tv and c-span's local content vehicles visited shreveport, louisiana, to showcase its history and literary culture founded in 1836, shreveport has a population of about 200,000 people and is located about 250 miles northwest of baton rouge. barksdale air force base is home to the b-52 bomber. since the b-52's introduction here in 1958, the base has housed one of the largest fleets of this aircraft in the u.s. military.

>> you know when a b-52 enters a conflict when the decision maker -- america's leadership, they're serious. and it just got serious when the b-52 entered the conflict. b-52 says massive air power. >> it was the first nuclear bomber and designed during the cold war era and was to project global power and long-range strike to our enemies during that era. now, that has graduated over the years and this weapon system has also been modernized and upgraded over the years to continue with today. >> this is the b-52h, it's got a wingspan of 185 feet, maximum gross weight of this jet is 488,000 pounds fully loaded, so that's with weapons and fuel. we carry up to 10 different munitions on this particular jet ranging from unguided weapons,

gravity weapons as they just freefall out of the bombay. to guide the weapons, that's your gps guided weapons, and we also carry air launch cruise missiles. a whole bunch of modern weaponry goes on this jet. eight engines, each engine capable of producing approximately 17,000 pounds of thrust apiece. it's kind of an abnormal design. most aircraft don't have the engines hanging off like this as you see. it really affects a little bit the flying characteristics of the jet in terms of when you push the power up, the jet's going to have a tendency to raise its nose. this is the bombay. 488,000 pounds gross weight. so as we add weapons, it reduces the amount of fuel we can carry. we can carry up to approximately

50,000 pounds of a weapon inside the bombay here. this is where the weapons attach. we can carry depending on the weapon 27 internal gravity weapon and if the nuclear mission is required or, you know, conventional mission, we have the conventional air launch cruise missile or the nuclear cruise missiles that will take these cluster racks out and we'll put in what's called a csrl, a rotary launcher, and it attaches to the missiles themselves and kind of like a six shooter. missile away. the fuel's loaded everywhere you don't see a bombay. it's designed for heavy metal, weapons, and fuel. that's all there is to it. this is the bombay and you'll see above you labeled fuel tank.

so pretty much everywhere. the wings, it's called an integral fuel system, so the fuel tanks are part of the structure of the wing itself. so the wings are fully loaded with fuel. and that's why you'll see when the b-52s are parked their wings are hanging low because all that fuel weight in the wing is, you know, pulling wings to the ground. whereas after landing, the wings will be up in the air almost, you know, 6 feet and that's just because they don't have much gas in the wing at the time. we can't go inside the jet, but what you see, two different levels, so on the downstairs you have a radar navigator and navigator, and their primary responsibility is managing the weapons and ensuring proper coordinates are in the weapon and really ensuring that the weapon hits the target. on the upper level is where you'll have the pilot and co-pilot. you can see the cockpit area here, relatively small compared to the overall size of the jet. most people would expect the cockpit to be quite a bit bigger.

not a whole lot of room in there. five crew members is the standard. up to ten. overall it's not a whole lot of room. so you have the pilot right here and the co-pilot on the other side, and then the back actually facing back wards is where the electronic warfare officer section is. that's really all there is to it, you know, it's an older weapon system, but like we said, it gets the job done, it's very, very capable aircraft. all the money that goes into this aircraft is spin on modernization of the weapon system. we talked about all the different kinds of weapons it has, very modern weaponry and that's what keeps it able to accomplish the objectives. any commander intent out there. >> the last production b-52h was delivered in north dakota on the 26th of october 1962. and it still provides the air power and the dominance that the

united states air force needs today. b-52 has been around for many years and has been in many conflicts. range back from vietnam, kosovo to the first desert storm to afghanistan, to the second fight over in iraq. it has been around for many years and believe me, our allies they love us for that, the capability that the weapon system brings as well as the enemy fears us and always wants -- gives them that second thought if diplomacy should break down that the b-52s could be on their way. >> find out where c-span's local content vehicles are going next online at c-span.org/localcontent. you're watching american history tv all weekend every weekend on c-span 3. this is c-span 3 with politics and public affairs programmi