children especially enjoy climbing into the lap of the scientific genius with the smile of a grandfather. >> there is a new website to find our schedules and preview upcoming programs. watch featured video from our weekly series as well as access ah tv's history tweets, history in the news and social media from facebook, youtube, twitter and foursquare. follow american history tv all weekend, every weekend on c-span 3 and online on c-span.org/history. benjamin henry latrobe, regarded as the father of american architecture, worked closely with president james madison and first lady dolly madison to refine the look and function of the early white house. mr. latrobe's partnership with the madisons is the subject of a talk at the maryland historical

society by leslie jones, collections manager at the white house historical association headquartered in lafayette square across from the white house where mr. latrobe once labored. this program is 45 minutes. zblood evening, folks. if i can just ask if you could try to find some seats. we're going to get ready. we may get more chairs if we need to. i think there's some empty seats around. if you would all try to get a seat, that would be great and we can start. good evening. welcome to the 2012 francis scott key lecture series at the maryland historical society. we are excited to start off this year's series celebrating the bicentennial of the war of 1812. this is the first program in that long celebration. this even's talk, oh, the terrible velvet curtains, benjamin henry latrobe and the madisons decorate the white house is being presented by leslie jones of the white house

historical association. before i introduce our speaker i want to point out the suburb items we have pulled for tonight's presentation. in the library cases you can see the original bound letters from latrobe to mrs. madison dating to 1809 regarding the declaration of the president's house as well as another letter from latrobe dated the following year to the finlay brothers of baltimore who made the painted furniture for the madisons. the letter even showed latrobe's sketch of a chair indicating the area where they tended to break. ro productions of the finlay painted furniture that was burned in 1814 are on view here this evening under the screen. i'd also like to announce that c-span is filming tonight's presentation so we would appreciate if you would turn off your cell phones if they would ring in the middle of the lecture. now on to our speaker. leslie jones of the white house historical association serves as the executive assistant to the president and the david m. rubenstein national center for white house history at decatur

house. ms. jones act as the curator and collections manager for the benjamin henry latrobe designed decatur house located in lafayette square owned by the trust for historic preservation and works in developing the public programming redesign of the white house visitor center and oversees relations, among many other tasks. she received a b.a. from miami university ohio in the history of architecture and completed her ma from the smithsonian associates and corcoran college of art designs history of masters program in 2010 with a thesis entitled pierre antoine seating furniture for the white house, evolution within the interior. she is curator of treasures of

the first family and will be curatiing the 2013 exhibit as well. she is an independent lecturer on topics related to early 19th century american in white house history. institutions she has spoken for include the smithsonian institution, society of the cincinnati, american institute of architects, national trust for historic preservation, pca, aca, national society of colonian dumbarton house and the white house's exhibit at the smithsonian rennwood gallery. please welcome leslie jones. [ applause ] >> good evening. thank you for choosing to spend your thursday night here with us at the maryland historical society. that was a very generous introduction. thank you, mark. so we're just going to go ahead and get started. i believe i'm cueing to you for slides. thank you. so, oh, the terrible velvet

curtains. benjamin henry latrobe and the madisons decorate the white house. this image right here on the very front is actually the earliest known published image of the white house from a travel book. at this time when the madisons came into the white house, only part of the white house had been finished before the british came, marched into washington and ended up burning the city to the ground. its original architect, irishman james hoban, won the competition set forth by washington and jefferson in 1792 to build what washington envisioned for the president's house, i would design a building that should look forward and execute no more of it at present than might suit the circumstances that shall be first wanted. a plan more than executed in a future period when the wealth population importance of it shall stand upon a much higher ground than they do present.

so washington really understood that the white house, it may evolve just as the united states may evolve. the city's commissioners went to france looking for adequate builders. in their commission to the city of bordeaux looking for masonmen, they said, quote, we wish to exhibit a grandeur of conception, a republican simplicity and true elegance of proportion that corresponds to a tempered freedom the good of little minds. contemporary counts describe the building as a palazzo. with no extraordinary features in a class simple as you can see. washington never lived in the white house. subsequent presidents moved in and made it their own. the third president of the united states and second to live in the white house, thomas jefferson in office from 1801 to

1809, appointed benjamin henry latrobe as the first surveyor of public buildings. which was a position he created to help expedite the completion of the federal city. because at this point it really was just taverns, hotels and the white house and the upcoming capitol building. jefferson having his own interests in architecture as seen through his many renovations of mont cello, planning at the university of virginia and virginia state capitol and also his own ideas for the white house, he had a person goal of developing the public buildings and creating an actual city in his lifetime rather than the underdeveloped, unpaid landscape that was washington in the early 19th century. his first duties were to finish -- latrobe ease first duties, excuse me, were to finish the south wing of the u.s. capitol, work on the president's house a and develop what is known as navy yard. his work with jefferson was a collaborative effort and the two

in six years helped to make the president's house, quote, structurally habitable, supply the missing conveniences and improve the appearances of the building. he added low single story wings. go back, sorry. on the east and west to provide for storage and other necessities and relandscaped the grounds. most of the work that -- excuse me. i skipped a page. let's go back. okay. so i'll just improvise. this is actually samuel peps cockrell who was the architect with which benjamin henry latrobe was trained in britain. the next slide. this is john smeeten, the engineer that latrobe trained with in england. he was really what we like to call a renaissance man. he was an artist, a painter, a sculptor, a designer of all sorts of things. ands he had a great mind for

various tasks which made him one of the most well-known people in the united states in terms of architecture, granting him actually the title father of american architecture which he retained -- has retained for well over 200 years. okay. this is latrobe's first grand building. he immigrated to the united states by way of virginia but then was commissioned to come to philadelphia and build some buildings there including their penitentiary. he also orchestrated the engineering of their water works. this building here is the first grecian building in the united states, the bank of pennsylvania. which does not exist anymore, unfortunately. okay. next slide. so getting back to where i was. with his work on the white house, he added low single story wings, which you can see right here, which were not previously in hoban's design.

which were actually part of what jefferson really had implemented in his influence in latrobe's designs. this is the south facing facade of the white house as you can see by this colonnade. that would go into the blue room. this is the east facade. seeing a profile of the house. latrobe once commented, mr. jefferson is a man out of a book. but mr. madison is a man of the world. jefferson had isolated himself as president. but with the madisons coming into the white house and their reputation as extraordinary hosts, the white house was surely to be lively again. as one of two public attractions existing in washington at the time, latrobe was very much counting on a great opportunity to expand his reputation as an architect and an engineer. and he certainly went beside those boundaries of being just an architect and engineer.

correspondence between mrs. madison and latrobe dated march 17th, 1809, reflect the additions to latrobe's duties from being just the surveyor of public buildings. in essence he ended up becoming mrs. madison's retriever. it's a bit of an exaggeration, but he searched high and lie, up and down the eastern sea board for furniture, rugs, carriages, horse harnesses, books, candle sticks, snuffers and lace. and even -- excuse me. one more slide. keep going. even wallpaper. one more slide. so this is a very famous depiction, actually, of -- this is the boston museum of fine arts, the tea party by henry sergeant. a little later in date than what we're looking at right now with the madisons. but it sort of explains what you would have seen in a very

elegant entertainment situation of the time period. one of the things that latrobe also picked up was mrs. madison's iconic turban she was very well known for wearing. it was actually a younger look. she pulled it off quite well. in addition also he picked out her wigs. in one occasion he actually picked one that was too small. we're not sure whether that means something, whether he thought she had a big head or he just didn't measure it correctly. in march of 1809, however, he wrote to mrs. madison of his recommendation for three pie kn -- piano fortes in the red room and specified chairs and settees which presumably refer to a suite he commissioned with the finlays. he took to rearranging the use of certain rooms. the mad sops specifically

outlined there were to be three rooms for entertaining and they should receive the most attention and therefore most of the budget. previously jefferson used a large room on the west end of the house as his office. what we know as the state dining room. when the madisons came into the white house they too made it into the state dining room and it has remained ever since, even past its reconstruction. the northwest corner room of the house which jefferson used as his dining room became two partitioned rooms, acting as aufsz for madison and edward coals, his secretary which we call the family dining room. the east room which formerly acted as mary weather lewis's office we refer to as the green room. that was a small dining room and they kept that function the same. as well as te liptic salon that was the most formal entertaining

position for the white house because it holds the most people. above the e liptic room on the second floor, the family's quarters was also the ladies room. these are really the only rooms we have a lot of information surviving on. so much was lost with the burning of the capitol. obviously over 200 years, papers get misplaced. fortunately enough there are documents that do survive. latrobe's provisions for decorations for mrs. madison seem to follow a few unavoidable trends. one being most often he looks only to the major cities in the north for materials and services and styles. more often than not, his styles are solely english. however, despite latrobe's constant travel to philadelphia and new york and baltimore as well, he did not look very closely at washington, georgetown or alexandria businesses. and this displeased a great many people including a mrs. mary sweeney who had one of the best upholstery shops in washington at the time.

and since he did not call upon her, she felt it her duty to spread gossip about latrobe to the papers. yes. it happened then, too. latrobe was typefaced as an eager and aggressive and loud mouthed designer. and this affected him so much that he ended up having to confront mrs. madison on the matter. in september 1809 he writes, as far as i could perceive boldly, a surveyor of the public buildings, but in my capacity of up holtsterer, so i'm called in the papers, which obviously he didn't agree with, i found that i could not be as useful as i wished. referring to mrs. sweeney. he goes on to write, having, however, received two anonymous letters to the same effect, i've not presumed to interfere beyond my duties as surveyor of the public buildings and have refrained from entering into the house more than duty requires. in a ps he continues, personally permit me to say i cannot possibly suppose the information i have received to be correct regarding mrs. madison's

disfavor for him. you have reason to be dissatisfied with might your carriage, which latrobe designed and ended up breaking the first time she used it. i'm more than sufficiently punished already by my misfortune of uri misfortune of universally good character who deceived me. i leave my cause in your hands. it is humiliating to me to have to defend it, but i know it is a good one. latrobe was extremely sensitive if you can't tell. a true artist and right brained. mrs. madison assured latrobe that he was not at all being held in low regard by herself or the president. for the time being. so the work continued. more than just a moem for the president to live in, the white house was meant to rival the most ek quiz it residences in america which at that time were in philadelphia and new york. which is why latrobe frequented those two destinations so often. additionally if objects needed

to be imported they would first come to those import cities and not landlocked washington. america by this time was by no means a richly developed nation. urban cities like new york, boston, philadelphia, charleston and now baltimore were hubs for industry. many luxuries for upper class americans, mind you, required, had to be brought in from foreign lands including textiles, food and even natural resources like furniture -- like wood for furniture production. what is difficult to understand in this day and age, design sources were largely imported. there were american craftsmen, but american craftsmen heavily relied upon publications that were set forth in england and france and sometimes even italy to develop the furniture that they were going to make. even furniture designs as well. i'm sorry. clothing designs. latrobe used his english design sources and specifications he

wished to produce for the interior of the president's house. his furniture designs followed thomas hope's. this is right out of thomas hope's book. does this look familiar? we'll see that later as well. the class sized design source was appropriate in latrobe's mind as america based so much of its style, governing and taste on reflections of ancient greece and rome. this was a common site here. rooms that were focused right around an pickwity, the collection of vases, whether they be ro productions or originales that came back from any sort of ruins in the mediterranean. by 1809 the united states and great britain had signed their peace for now. but there was still a tendency for many americans to choose their decor and manner of dressing from the bodies and homes of french and english.

it's generalized, but you see from surviving furniture, costume and ceramic styles most americans chose french. although both countries were taking their design inspirations from antiquity. what we can generally refer to as neoclassism. but france and england had very different ideas and takes on what neoclass cal furniture looked like. from wherever they got design resources, from students that came back from studying in p pompay on their grand tours. mrs. madison, in fact, was a lover of the french style. this is a little bit later. this is from charles percier's design book. it shows you the difference when you look at the thomas hope versus what the french were coming out with. latrobe purchased two massive stone eagles from james draquare, a sculptor in philadelphia, which you see

here, and mounted them on the pier gates on the north side of the house. additionally, four marble mantles were ordered from draquare. two were installed. he had a budget in mind and sold two to the u.s. capitol building. as for the furniture, the most iconic pieces were ordered from a pair of brothers in baltimore. of the 50 cabinet makers in baltimore listed at this time, john and hugh finlay were considered the best in what had become one of the most rapidly growing cities in population and economics. baltimore had put itself on the map in its newly known craftsmanship known as fancy furniture. latrobe commissioned the findlays for all the furnishings going into the large elliptical room. this is not from the white house collection or from the white

house suite. you can see here, obviously, the antiquity influence. the splayed legs. the form, the decoration. and also another chair the findlays created as well. what also you'll see as a huge trend here is the caned seat. the 40-piece suite of furniture the findlays made were painted and lacquered in white and gold. here is one of those examples which you'll be able to see closer up later on. but this is one of the couches that the findlays created that latrobe designed coming from the grecian examples he saw and used from thomas hope's book. here's a close-up of that design. these are all on display for you to see afterwards. here's an example from what the cushion looks like that you

could see formerly on the last design we saw. more of that. okay. and the -- some of the furniture was also grained in imitation of highly figured mahogany. mahogany at this time was not a native wood of the united states. it was mostly imported and very expensive. fancy furniture, although it was very fashionable, was also sort of budget saving. because they were using domestic woods and painting it to look like it was an exotic, imported wood. and there's the chair. now, the cane seats that are used on these furnishings is also another revival style. unfortunately it's a little bit -- not unfortunately, but it is a little bit closer in time period than any of the antiquity influences come from. these are also close-ups. you see some of latrobe's small notes here. these are notes that he actually sent to the findlays.

here's an example of the cane seat on the modern reproduction. cane seating is very expensive in itself. here's an example of what it derived from. they used the cane seating and then had their own cushions put up on it as well. latrobe also embraced the form of the couch used for reclining at meals. although the madisons never reclined at a meal. they were set with the sofas on castors that could be moved for easy mobility. the furniture was patterned with pictures of antique greek vases. the united states arms also right here invented by pierre charles l'enfant which was first displayed at federal hall was also applied to the furniture. you can see that same -- this is a little bit modified since it's

a little bit earlier. but the same shield which ends up going on the crest of the united states. latrobe encountered plenty more issues while he was going through his design phase. more so than just with any papers or solicitous gossip. the findlays, in fact, caused quite a lot of trouble. the workshop was not operating on the time frame that latrobe had set and he wrote to mrs. madison on september 8th, 1809. mr. findlay of baltimore, who has the chairs and sofas in hand appears not to have been equally attentive. i therefore went to baltimore in july and found the chairs ready and such as i wished, but the sofas were unfinished. i said everything to urge their completing and applied to general smith who had recommended to me to urge him also. about ten days ago i wrote another letter pressing to findlay, but received no answer. now, this room that this furniture was going into, the elliptic room, also was called the oval room, was designed to be the most elegant and formal

space on the primary floor of the white house. largely because it could hold the most guests. although architecturally it was designed by james hoban, latrobe wished to make this space his masterpiece. so he went from being an architect simply to more of an interior designer at this point. he worked through the summer and fall of 1809 to make sure the space was ready as soon as possible. he fretted so much over it he constantly wrote and annoyed the madisons. he was aware of this later on. more son than the findlay problem was the issue of choosing the right fabric. what he wished for was silk damask. oh, the terrible velvet curtains. when latrobe saw what the curtains were going to look like in the white house, he was mortified. he settled for red silk velvet. the effect was not what he hoped for.

the meager $5,000 budget, if only it had been bigger, what have allotted him more too many to either have fabric imported from england or have it made in the united states. instead he hired john ray of philadelphia to make the upholstery for the entire room in the red velvet. and latrobe was certain that the room would get such poor reviews he would never be forgiven. this also goes to show, as i said, that he became more of just the surveyor of public buildings. maybe the newspapers wrn with the too often referring to him as an upholsterer is because he worried so much about the fabric. the reason why we focus so much on the elliptical salon is that's what most of the information that is available today survives. we do understand from latrobe's letters that the mantle on the east wall which you see right here had a long french plate mirror above with a lamkin

valance atop trimmed with gilded balls and cloth. this is a modern day interpretation. we took all the information we had available of this period of the time, and of what the white house looked like and dressed. he created this in 2010. here we have president madison, mrs. madison, steven decatur and several other guests. ornamental palmettes were gilded as were the other grecian-inspired accents. here's the design latrobe came up with, the palmettes. this is coming straight out of an antiquity in room. the walls were papered and, perhaps, brushed over with a light coat of fleck coach paint and the wood work was -- george bridgeport of philadelphia was employed to paint the ceiling and wood work.

this box is actually mrs. madison's tea box. it was given to her by mrs. latrobe. it's on exhibit at the renn wick right now. what we've come to figure out from this is that this wallpaper was most likely the wallpaper that was used in the elliptical salon. when we come back to the painting again, you'll see this is actually used as historical reference. there's an inscription here from mrs. madison to mrs. latrobe. they'd known each other since infancy. that always seemed to have helped his causes when he was on the outs with the madisons. mrs. madison was known to have spent most of her time working on her own parlor chamber than any other room in the house. also known as the antechamber where the president received guests. the space was said to be extremely fashionable done mostly in a yellow color. with sofas and dhars in the same satin. and chairs used the same cornice

as around the windows. in the parlor, a portrait miniature of mrs. madison was present denoting the room's name sake. the state dining room transported from being jefferson's library and study into an actual dining room. it had the least amount of money put into it. a modest rug and furniture from the jefferson era were used. including photographs of past presidents. formerly it was hung in the elliptical salon. but for this -- for a very special occasion on january 1st, 1810, when guests were finally welcomed into the white house it was moved and put into the state dining room. latrobe had his wife, mary elizabeth hazlehurst latrobe, inform mrs. madison as well in 1809 they had found india stone china in blue and white and a similar set of nankin or nanking china ordered for the dessert service from philadelphia 37 she also sternly mentions there was an impossibility o