by architect frank gehry and his collaborate or theater artist robert wilson. this hearing is 90 minutes. >> the hearing will come to order. the subcommittee on national parks and forest is meeting today to hear testimony on the proposed eisenhower memorial. under the rules, the opening remarks are limited to the chairman and ranking member. however, i ask unanimous consent to include any other members opening statement in the hearing record as submitted to the clerk at close of business today and hearing no objections, so ordered. i want to thank everyone who has agreed to testify today. although today's witnesses will

express differing opinions on the proposed design. i know that all the critics and advocates alike want a memorial, a monument that truly honors president eisenhower and helps future generations of americans understand and appreciate his role in american history. to my staff who started actually drafting notes for me, i want them to know that i was alive when president eisenhower was elected, but i was still crawling, not necessarily that. most of my memories have come from books that have been read about him which is where many of us learned about the significant contribution of president and general eisenhower. some members of congress today probably served under general eisenhower in world war ii and some served in korea when he was president a century ago, but whether we come from personal memories or from our studies he is to all of us a man who led our fathers and grandfathers and the crusade for europe and later a president who hauled and contained soviet expansion during the cold war era.

i do want to note that many lessons can be learned from his life. i recently read a biography of president eisenhower which talked about when he was -- i think he was still a lieutenant in the army. and was given a housing increase supplement only to find out through one of the technicalities he did not earn the supplement. when he found out and his supervisors found out, they were chagrinned. he offered to pay back the $250.70 cents. unfortunately, the inspector general wanted a court-martial. fortunately for the country and the world some of the superiors realized there was potential in this young army officer and did not have the same slavish adherence to rules that sometimes we found in bureaucracies in washington today and common sense prevailed. i say that only because we're going to go directly to a bill on the floor today in which the issue is do we have slavish adherence to rules or will common sense actually prevail in

there is much we can learn from this situation. i'm personally excited. i have only three busts in my house. one of them is of president eisenhower that we got in abilene on one trip. today we're going to review the progress that has been made in carrying out congress for the eisenhower memorial to that would perpetuate his memory and contributions to the united states. today's hearing we'll hear from susan eisenhower speaking on behalf of the eisenhower family and from representatives of the dwight d. eisenhower memorial commission and federal agencies that produced the current plan. we'll also hear from distinguished private citizens who have examined the appropriate school and want to express their view. this is perhaps a key course in the moment of this monument because the ground breaking is imminent, and we must decide whether to go ahead with the current proposal or pause for future evaluations. the information you hear today will be invaluable in determining the course we take. i am pleased to see that c-span is televising this hearing because i would like ike just as the american people like ike and i want them to hear about the memorial directly from those who

are involved in shaping it. when the ranking member and the this committee appears, we'll give him the opportunity to introduce his opening remarks. in lieu of that we will ask our first witness who is here, who is representing the boswell of iowa, when i believe is a member of this commission, that is doing that, who has requested to give remarks. we're very pleased to have you here at our committee, representative. actually, you can't -- you can't speak yet. maybe. >> we're really happy to have you here and you'll have to wait longer. >> thank you very much. >> your ranking member has arrived, and he has some opening remarks and then we're going to turn to you if that's okay. thank you, mr. grijalva. >> thank you, mr. chairman. my apologize, congressmen,

friends, let me welcome all the guests and fellow committee members and i want to thank everyone who is going to be involved in testifying today. it's a very unusual hearing. i can't help but feel that we're micromanaging something well outside our purr view. congress has a very limited role in this dilemma, controversy, and the eisenhower memorial commission was established in october of 1999 as part of the department of defense appropriation act. the memorial has -- has been following a deliberate process established through the commemorative works act of 1986. eight members of the eisenhower commission were appointed by congress, and we have done that part of our work. i'm not an art critic. i doodle, but i don't consider it art. so much people value it as art,

and it could be horrible mistaken because it's the point about beauty is in the eye of the beholder. this fresh new design for the presidential memorial has been reviewed by people with far more expertise than me. i look forward to receiving an update on the progress of the commission and better understanding the source of the controversy surrounding the design. however, i don't think that this subcommittee, this -- the full committee or congress is the appropriate place to litigate a memorial design or a potential family dispute. i have two letters to submit, mr. chair, for the record, one from frank gehry, the renowned architect chosen to design the memorial. another letter is from david chiles, the former chairman of the national capital planning commission and the commission of fine arts. again, let me thank everybody in advance for your testimony and with that, if any remaining time with the chairman's indulgence,

if i could give that time to my colleague from california if he may have any opening statements with your concurrence. >> sure. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> mr. chairman, if i might -- first of all i'm really looking forward to this hearing, i agree with the ranking member that we really ought not make design questions here. there are others that are far more capable of doing that and the commission has it, but it would seem to me that our purpose ought to be to make sure that this gets done, that we get this memorial under way and that it become available for the general public to memorialize and to remind us of the incredible contributions that this man made together with millions of other americans during world war ii, before and after and his presidency. so we'll get on with the hearing here. art is always controversial, and certainly memorials to this day, some on the monument remain controversial, but i -- it ought

to be our task to sort out any delays that there may be and the causes of though delays and what we can do to get this project under way and completed. i yield back. >> thank you. all right. leonard, we've done our formal work here. we now turn five minutes to you for any remarks you may have. >> well, thank you, mr. chairman, chairman bishop and ranking member grijalva. i appreciate it and good to be here. i feel like it came about, probably might appreciate having this little comment from somebody on the commission. i wasn't on the commission when it first started. was reported to it after it had been started, and i'll talk about that a little bit. i would like to make two points, and i want you here to know that the commission has done what congress has asked it to do. it has been engaged, and secondly it's followed the policies and procedures set forth.

just as you've already made that point, and i believe you're right, it's time to get it done, and we must move forward. the commission has received 63 million federal funding. about half of that has been spent, and so, you know, i give a little perspective there, and i think what i'd like to do, just give you my testimony of what i feel about, but first off i'm very delighted to have family here, susan, the sisters. i got to meet them not too long ago, and read about them and i just am very impressed and very appreciative of your love and your personal care for a great, great monument. when i came to commission, well, kind of interesting. i served -- by the way, i was world war ii. i just got white hair, in case you're wondering, or korea, but did make it to vietnam a couple of times, but before that, i

spent a tour in germany. i was a young lieutenant right out of ocs, and our assignment in what was referred to as the folding gap. that's where the tanks were going to come, and that's where we as members of the eighth division were going to be to meet them. we spent half of our four years not continuously, but we spent probably half of our time out there preparing, maneuvers, training and so on. and i got very interested in this guy named eisenhower. i, too, i liked ike, and i knew a lot about him. i went to some places where there was -- whether it was in belgium or wherever it was, whenever i had the opportunity. i was there for four years, and i continued to grow such an admiration for this great, great person, and -- and historically can never ever be forgotten, and this memorial on his behalf is something that needs to be back and it's long overdue.

it's got to be right. but coming from south central iowa, probably less than 200 miles from abilene and so on, when i was deployed to vietnam the first time i went from ft. riley which is very nearby, so my family and i, we went over to visit there from time to time, and i took guests there, and the appreciation for this gentleman that came out of that part of the country, right from the heartland really, and -- and read about him. i ended up being a student and then later an instructor at the general command staff college and studied the things that took place and taught tactics and had classes and reviewed a lot of the decisions last night and so on that dwight eisenhower supreme commander made, leadership, read a lot of material, and then fast forward

to an appointment of the commission. so i go to the first meeting, and i realize that they have been operating and first i got one, i may need an extra minute, mr. chairman. i'll tell you right now. i hope you'll consider that. but anyway, i saw the first idea, and i thought i'm not -- i'm not sure about this, and -- and, you know, there was a statue of a young man and these great displays of the globe looking over the country and with the troops and so on. i'm not sure, and i got thinking about it and in talking to some of my staff and different ones, and before i had read some of the things that the designers and architect had come up with, came to this conclusion. a lot of young people in this country go to the space museum. it seems to be the highest attraction, and i just all of a sudden realized what a site, what a spot for eisenhower to be right there where youngsters

would come out of that museum and just naturally it would seem like they would walk across the street and see what could happen in a person's life, and i haven't -- have no comparison of leonard boswell to eisenhower as well, but i was born in a tenant farmhouse and got to enjoy the american dream, and i don't have time to tell what you that means to me, but here is an example of the american dream. who would have ever thought abilene, kansas, somebody would end up as supreme allied commander and president of this great country, and did a wonderful job in both places. and so i started really falling in love with this concept where a youngster today could come out of that space museum where they go there by the thousands and go across the street and see there is an example of what can happen if you apply yourself and learn and prepare. who knows what might happen to you in your american dream.

so i -- i'm just very impressed with this. i think it's terribly important that we continue to talk with the family, that you'll hear from the family today, to have a memorial to this great, great american. every now and then i'm still reminded of some of his wisdom. we probably all think about the little advice about the military industrial complex and many, many other things, but i just want you to know that i think the commission has taken it very serious, the responsibility that the congress gave them, and they want to do it in the most possible best manner that they can to reflect this great american, among the greatest, no question about it, and so i would just say that i -- i can't speak for them, but i can say this from getting acquainted with other members, very serious about it, very sincere, and want to get the job done and be cognizant of the needs and

satisfaction, of course, of the family, absolutely. so i think we're -- they are ready to move on. they want to do this to the best possible way, and i just want to say to you that i feel that it's an honor and a privilege that leonard boswell, born in a tenant farmhouse gets to be here today and bear testimony and make a comment that i'm just proud to be part of the memory of dwight eisenhower. i was out to abilene just on the way back to bismarck children, and i'll close, last december. i said to my wife i'd like to stop, another time. been there a few years, and we just went down there and sat on the ground and didn't have a lot of time, and i shared with her some of the things that i probably hadn't before back when

i was instructing general command staff college and walking the grounds where i could walk and then reflecting on where he'd come from and what it accomplished because of the exercise and took advantage of the american dream, so with that i thank you, mr. chairman, for listening to me and let me run over time. i apologize, but not too much because we're talking about a great guy and with that i'll close and leave you to your work. you've got some great testimonies coming forward, different ones, susan and others, and carl and people that i have great respect for, and thank you for your efforts to spend this time today as well. >> congressman, thank you for being here with us. don't worry about running over time. >> okay. >> we'll actually light to invite you to participate in the rest of the hearing you may, you have a busy schedule and it may

not be acceptable to you, but the invitation is there regardless. >> thank you very much. i may go for a moment and come back. thank you very much. >> that will work as well. thank you. the next panel we'd like to bring up. we have i think seven seats there, seven individuals who will be able to talk to us. i'm sorry. >> just susan. >> the second panel, because i don't have enough seats up there after all, is miss susan eisenhower who will be representing the eisenhower family. miss eisenhower, if we can have you come up to the microphone. this will be included in the record as will be the letters that the ranking member mentioned earlier will be added to the record without objection. we appreciate it. the timing device in front of you, for you and everyone else will be -- will be speaking is obviously the green light that signifies we have it started.

the yellow light signifies that you have one minute left and the red is when time is expired. we're ready to hear your oral arguments and hope you can limit them to the five minutes, if possible. thanks so much for joining us. the time is yours. >> thank you very much, chairman bishop, ranking member grijalva, distinguished members of the committee. i would first like to acknowledge my sister ann eisenhower with me here today. let me say that the eisenhower family is grateful to congress for designating that an eisenhower memorial be built, and we'd like to thank you personally for your leadership in convening this hearing. it will allow us a frank and open exchange of views. we as a family are committed to see that the building of a memorial to dwight eisenhower be done in an open, democratic and transparent way. this is what ike would have wanted. we would have been the gratified by the public debate that has

finally begun, and we're grateful to all of those who have worked on the commission and worked on the memorial, especially mr. frank gehry who has graciously interacted with members of the eisenhower family. the public debate has demonstrated that the american people overwhelmingly endorse the memorial, but they are saying it's time to go back to the drawing board, and we agree. aside from all the things that have been said in the press and in the internet, we have been inundated as family members with letters about the unmet challenge of creating a fitting memorial. given this, mr. chairman, the eisenhower family sees no alternative but to suggest two remedies, one to redesign the eisenhower memorial and two to call on the eisenhower memorial commission to review its staff management and stakeholder policies. first, let me address myself to the design. great monuments in our country make simple statement that encapsulate the reason the memorial has been erected in the first place. george washington is remembered as the father of our country. the lincoln memorial declares that he saved the union. the monument to christopher columbus at union station says he gave to mankind a new world.

one of the main flaws of the current proposal is that eisenhower's contribution to this nation is not the central theme of the design. and eisenhower the president who champion freedom and prosperity. it relies on a notion. a young eisenhower viewing his future career. # a real man who face but we've heard from many people in the last months who have objections to the 80-foot metal mesh so-called tapestries. ze spite the eisenhower

commissions to the tradition. modern tapestries have been found in the communist world. a number of other people have mentioned that these are an iron curtain. the number of people including haul cost survivors who have contact me is notable. this we have been concerned and others would agree this could be seen as disfront to the

in addition we are concerned that they will pose ongoing maintenance issues. now let me address myself briefly to process. from the earliest days, they have been calling for a memorial that is simple and one that focuses on eisenhower's achievements. among other things, it has been suggested that the family is not

united in its views. we learned that the concept was evolving but suddenly it was slated for fast track review and a late spring ground breaking. the money and full funds are raised. we would oppose it if the gap were too large. except to the american people so that it can garner that support. going forward it will be critical that the memorial commission staff do a much bet irjob of engaging the memorial stake holders.

>> thank you for your comments. we will have questions from the panel. if you have questions, first? >> thank you. >> if i may, thank you so much for being here. in your statement, you stated that the family is committed to playing its role for the edification of myself and the committee, could you please identify where the process. >> this would take an exhausting review of the documents.

members of the family have expressed concern about the scope and scale of this memorial. this has evolved a great deal. a o stha we have gone aloh every aspect of this process would not be correct and we found it important to correct the record. you will hear from overs who have their own view on this so i will leave that question to be answered by others.

>> he would have expected something far less dramatic. he would have wanted something on a smaller scale. this is an enormous thing. i did mention the metal skrims. it was only relatively recently that people began to speak on the size of these things. these curtains are 80 feet high. i don't think he would understand it and i don't think that it would appeal to them. it was unknown. as a matter of fact, my sister could tell you a funny story about riding along the gettiesburg countryside with him

on different occasions with grandad saying he hated billboards. this would not be in keeping in any style he would understand. >> do you think there are elements of the design that are salvageable? this is to d determined in the coming weeks. >> let me ask one last question. if the family has a position on funding this memorial, the commission's testimony that private funding would be detracted from funding of other

organizations. >> yes, in my lengthy submission to the committee, i went do that a bit. we had a much better interactive process between the commission staff and the eisenhower legacy organizations. this has crumbled in recent years. >> are there other questions from the committee? if not we thank you. your written testimony will be in totality in the record. thank you for taking the time to join us here today. >> thank you again very much.

can i call up spl steven white sell? and the department of interior. i hope i did not mispronounce that. retired general from the u.s. air force mr. howard ziger mark who is the director of the national sifk arts society. >> we barely got you in there. once again, the same rules will apply. your written testimony will appearnentety in the