flight program out in the lobby, but it's on our website at heritage.org. join with me in thanking our panelists and thank you for coming. [ applause ] a live picture outside the supreme court this morning, where for nearly 90 minutes now, supreme court justices have been hearing the first of three days of oral argument challenging the nation's health care law. we've been discussing the case, talking with some of the demonstrators in front of the court and taking your phone

calls and input. all on our companion network c-span this morning. about 1:00 this afternoon we'll hear the oral argument as it happened this morning in the court. we'll have it on this network and on c-span radio and c-span.org. right now we join live c-span coverage of the supreme court's health care debate. ♪ let it shine ♪ let it shine ♪ let it shine >> i am reverend linda hamilton-walling, the largest national coalition of national, state and local organizations and individuals working for a health system that embraces an inclusive accessible and affordable health care for all.

we are here today to share the vision of a faith-inspired health care future. freedom of religion is one of the pillars of our nation's belief system. in fact, searching for freedom of religious expression was among the driving forces behind our forebearers willingness to give up everything and risk life itself in the journey to the new world. so it is in these days that people are faith are giving moral witness to values that are deeply embedded in our diverse religious heritage. values that lift up the dignity and worth of every human being and protect the common good. a significant part of preserving our life together is working for health care future that includes everyone and works well for all of us. to that end, we have faith leaders with us today who will share their faith community's

vision of our health care future. first is james winkleer, general secretary of church society, international of public policy and social justice agency of the 11 million member united methodist church. he heads up a wide-ranging ministry of global peace and justice efforts in washington, d.c. it's an honor to be here. it is the official position of the methodist church that health care is a right. it is the responsibility of the government to provide citizens with health care. in 35,000 churches across the united states, there are far too many people in our pews who have fallen through the cracks in our

broken health care system, who are not able to afford insurance and are ineligible for medicaid. in one state, for example, you can make as little as $5,000 a year and be ineligible for medicaid. each and every day our clergy council people who lack access and are in the midst of health care crises. the story we hear reflect people who died from lack of health care coverage, who are bankrupted by huge health care bills. >> we are trying to give you a sense of the sights and sounds of what it's like to be on the supreme court plaza today. all sorts of people have come from all around the country to voice their opinions on the nation's health care law, as the justices conduct three days of oral arguments and to various challenges of the health care law. we are also following members of congress on twitter. here is one from congresswoman

lynn jenkins. she writes, "the u.s. constitution is going on 225 years. obama care has been around for just two. let's hope the constitution wins this week." listening to your calls, taking your tweets, looking at your facebook posts. savannah, tennessee. this is chad, an independent there. >> caller: thank you for taking my call. i believe if our leaders want to address the health concerns of americans, they must make themselves aware of the effect this is having on people's health. you can find a direct correlation between pollution and the health problems people have. >> thank you. birmingham, alabama. >> caller: two short things. first, misconception. these people keep telling us all these people are coming from canada for health care. i know that for a fact. i agree. the misconception is do they not

know or are they trying to mislead the american people the canadian government has an agreement with hospitals close to canada in order to save them money on buying multimillion dollar pieces of equipment, they send their people to the united states for treatment. the canadian government is what is paying for that treatment. the other thing on this mandate, why is it we have all this uproar on this mandate when if you go back and look at the bush administration's plan there is a mandate in there. you only have 63 days after you turn 65 years old to buy a drug plan. if you do not, you start paying a penalty. when you buy. for every month you do not have a drug plan after the 63 days, you pay so much penalty when you

buy one. also, that penalty is not a one-time deal. you will pay it for the rest of your life as part of your monthly premium. any time you do not have a drug plan for 63 days after you turn 65, you will start incurring this penalty. then you will pay that penalty on a monthly premium for the rest of your life. where is the outrage on that mandate compared to this one? thank you for taking my call. i hope people will look and will this mandate, if it's knocked down, will they also knock down the mandate in the bush plan? thank you, ma'am. >> thanks, bill. birmingham, alabama, donald, south carolina, republican. >> caller: yes, ma'am. i waited a long time. i wasn't going to comment, but that guy there from alabama being a democrat, he made a good

point. the reason the supreme court didn't knock bush's plan down in 2 the part d is nobody sued. maybe if they sued and if the democrats would have sued if they didn't like that, maybe they would have struck it down. that's the answer to that. these days, 26 states and lots of people do not like this law that has been implemented. that has no sway on the supreme court, i know, even though it says i heard as high as 72% of the real citizens of this country do not like this law whatever reason. you can put all the sob stories in front of the cameras all the folks want to, 72-100 americans think it is the malpractice law they are trying to enforce here. why i think that is is because the caller from florida, the

lady from burlington -- forget her. the guy from florida. go back to his callle where he mentioned what the law is really about. it's about a government takeover of about 17% more of the total u.s. economy. let's face it. fannie and freddie finances is somewhere in the 90s, over 90% of home loans in this country now. we nationalized the car industry up there in michigan. then this affordable care law, i say that with almost busting out in laughter. this almost comfortable care law, if it's so great, why have they handed out -- i can't think of the word right now. why are they letting off the unions and certain businesses and certain industries, they get a waiver.

why don't they hand out waivers to other people? they handed out a waiver to any car company which is in south carolina or tennessee where they make cars, i've not heard of it. let me make this point before you hang up. like the guy said. this is the rules for radicals. it's like a carbon copy for what barack obama is doing and trying to do to this country. >> thank you, sir. he cited a poll 72%, the same number posted by the gop staff of the house weighs and means committee. 72% of americans say the mandate is unconstitutional with over 50% of democrats agreeing.

next is telephone call from ormond beach, florida. this is lee who is a democrat there. you're on the air. >> caller: yes, ma'am. i'm actually a registered independent. i plan on voting democrat so i called in on that line. i keep hearing all this rhetoric put out there about this health care bill will be so expensive, people cannot afford it, oh, they can just get medicaid or they can get these programs through the hospital if they really can't afford the health care, that that's no problem. they're wrong. i am a 63-year-old woman. i'm too young for medicare. i'm in bad health. i have rheumatoid arthritis, heart disease and copd. i was hospitalized in 2011 and hospitalized in 2010. i had no health insurance. i tried many times.

when my husband got medicare we talked to the insurance company we go through here in florida. i tried to get health insurance. again, i was told point blank there is no health insurance, no matter what the cost, will insurance me. the little income we have, which they say is too much for this medicaid and these programs, my husband gets social security and pension. so we don't qualify for all this. they say we can get some kind of health care. we don't get off scot free. i'm in danger of losing everything i've got. my credit is destroyed. i've got a question for everybody out there that says this health care bill is too expensive. who pays for my hospital bills that when i was in intensive care in the last two years that i cannot pay, will never be able to pay. all we get it takes to live on.

i'll tell you who pays for it, although i am a tax payer, the taxpayer pays for it. there are many, many people like me. these people that got the idea this health care bill is too expensive is because the rhetoric that's being put out there. i would like to see the democrats talk more about the real thing going on here. i'm probably going to lose what little i've got at my age and my bad health. these people don't know what they're talking about. >> lee from florida. debbie wasserman schultz also from florida is head of the democratic party, and she has tweeted a link to her facebook page, which we'll show you, where she says thank you to the gbs group for telling me about how the affordable care act has helped your business and your

employees. from our facebook page, this is kyle guy. "why do we need health care reform? well, the question is pretty clear because americans pay the most for health care. pay approximately $2 trillion annually, have some of the least access to health care, nearly 50 million unnushed in large part because of costs, and receive some of the worst health care outcomes, see infant morality rates, life span and other important indicators. most agree the current system does not work. employers' continued effort to displace health care costs on employees. almost all legislators and public officials agree the status quo will bankrupt us in the near future." that's kyle guy on facebook. next up, carson city, nevada, bruce, independent there, you're on. >> caller: how you doing? >> great, thanks. >> i have a few comments about

this health care because the health care we are getting today isn't that good. i watched my father die, suffer in a home because the health care was terrible. nobody will do anything about it. there's not enough doctors in this society. there's not enough good groups to give care. there are some out there that give real good care, but not enough for as many people as there are. there's not enough doctors. also in the state of nevada, i feel personally the doctors care more about making money than they care about their patients and their health. they come in and somebody said, he's going to die anyway. he just lays in the bed and dies. they go away. that's it. i also have one other point. when jesus, for all your christians out there who say they're christians, but should look up in the bible mark

chapter 7 versus 6-9. they all say they're christians, but they hate human beings. if they were truly christians, they would want every human being on the planet healthy, wealthy and wise with. it doesn't work that way. and remember, jesus died because of health care. he didn't even charge anybody. and they killed him. when would the republicans today demand jesus be dead because he's giving free health care. >> we are going to jump in there from carson city, nevada. from members of our congress list. dennis kucinich just lost a primary election in his home state against follo democrat marcy kepter. supreme court is one important step doing interviews at radio row outside the court right now.

up on capitol hill with a number of other members who will also be around the court. there are areas called radio row where a lineup of radio stations is there to interview people about their health care opinions. next up is marion, ohio. this is frank who is a republican. >> caller: how you doing? >> thank you, sir. >> caller: good. i've got a comment i would like to make. i've been listening to everybody with their comments. i think what i would like to say is government was created to protect our liberties and it's not to tell us how to live. as americans, we need to wake up. this is the land of the free. people need to live within their means and make their own entitlements. entitlements are earned, they are not given. that's everybody's right. i think the problem with america today is everybody lost concept. they have the right and they

have the choice. they have the choice to anything. you have the right to some things. >> thanks so much. we've gotten word the oral argument has now concluded. if you look to the big steps in front of the supreme court building, you can see people beginning to make their way out of the court. we'll keep an eye on those microphones for the first of press conferences after the oral arguments take place. next is a cull from somerset, new jersey. bob is a democrat. >> caller: i'd like to know. i'm turning 65 next week and going on medicare part a. i'll be paying for part b out of my social security. does this health care plan they are debating now, is that affecting me in any way? i'm not sure how this works. >> thanks very much. not here with experts to answer questions. the medicare system continues to exist. dan coates is senator from

indiana, "i'm hopeful the supreme court will agree with the majority of americans that the individual mandate is unconstitutional, and this law needs to be overturned." next up is north carolina. this is michael who is an independent. >> caller: let me say, thank you so much for allowing your callers to complete what they want to say. that is so refreshing. it seems the hosts allow the guests to ramble on and on, and callers are lucky they get 15 to 20 seconds. i wish they did more than this with "washington journal." here is what i've got. cheney just had a heart transplant. who paid for that? we the taxpayers paid for that. if he's not a billionaire, he's close to it. that's a problem in this country. congress give themselves the very best health care this country has to offer regardless of what it costs. they force we the taxpayers to pay 72% of their health care

monthly per year per congress person. and what we need the do as a country, we need to demand that presidents, vice presidents and congress put on social security and medicare. if they aren't they would fix these problems and fix them adequately. if they don't like that, then don't run for the office. thank you so much. and i'll continue listening. >> thanks for your call. thanks for listening. on twitter, someone who goes by john rowe dough tweets this. someone is going to pay and someone is going to collect. next is charleston, mississippi. this is antoine. go ahead. democrat. you're on the air. all right. we will take our next telephone calls. we're watching the supreme court oral arguments. let's take a shot of the people leaving the court right now. as they are making their way out after the oral argument.

next up in our continuing coverage we'll have the pro and con press conferences by those inside the courtroom and also some supporters and opponents of the legislation, and then we are awaiting the court's release of the oral argument and we will bring you the entirety of that argument on our network, you can listen to it with our pictures as you know, no video coverage allowed in the court today president. next up is vero beach, florida. republican. go ahead. >> thank you for taking my call. my question is, has any one in congress read the bill yet? secondly, does any one know that there's 151 new agencies that are going to be set up under obama care, and thirdly there's going to be 19,000 new irs agents to administer this. i think we're totally out of control in this obama care.

my other gripe is the judiciary in oklahoma, a single judge overturned 70% of the people and allowed sharia law into our law. he overturned the legislature and overturned the voters. i don't think the judiciary should be allowed to legislate. if they have a problem they should go back to the legislature and say what you're doing is unconstitutional, but in no instance should they be allowed to overturn my vote. that's all i have to say. thank you very much. >> thanks so much. and dee posts this comment. i already got angry by listening to c-span callers. public health. heard of it. your health does affect everyone. next is a call from norfolk, virginia. this is donald who is an independent. >> yes. how you doing today. >> thanks, donald, doing well.

>> all right. i'm a small business owner and i think this health care law is what we need because before then i couldn't afford health care for my employees. and i'm glad that this health care bill is coming about with because we will be able to afford -- so many kids here are suffering because they don't have medical insurance and things. and then everyone says that pay. every time you spend a dollar you pay taxes so for people to say you're not paying taxes, certain amount of people, i don't know no one who don't pay taxes. any time you spend your money you pay taxes. so i say this health care bill is what we need. this is not obama care, this is america care. and people need to stop saying that because a lot of presidents have did a lot of things and we have not attacked their name to it and we shouldn't do it now. we should all stand together. this is not a white or black issue, this is america issue. and america should lead by example. and thank you for letting me have the time.

>> thanks for making the call. let's return to the supreme court exterior where there are comments being made by a group that are anti-health care law reverends. >> all right. i will make some comments on what we watched and heard in the courtroom today during the entirety of the arguments. all right. i'll wait. i am reverend rob shank, rob, schenck, president of the national clergy council here in washington, d.c. we represent church leaders from catholic, evangelical, orthodox, and mainline protestant traditions. we were in the courtroom today to listen to the first day of

arguments. it was a very spirited exchange to say the least. there were some very humorous moments, some very tense moments. of course the questions that are on the table today are arcane, difficult nuanced legal questions about the standing in the cases. you will hear from the attorneys general today that argued, you will hear from lawyers on those points. but we would like to make a much larger point. and that is this. that while all of us are deeply concerned for those who need health care, deserve it and should have it, the question is, whether in the process of delivering that health care to them you may trample on the rights of individuals to keep to the freedom of their own conscience, when it comes to the question of the mandate, whether

the individual mandate or the mandate for religious organizations to cooperate with this particular law, you cannot get around the fact that it tramples on the freedom of conscience, to compel an individual, to compromise their conscience is a fundamental violation of religious liberty. now, what i can tell you about the justices, is there were serious questions raised. we definitely have justice alito who asked serious questions about about the issue of taxation. this is the equivalent of taxation a lot of the justices were concerned about that point. their body language showed they are deeply concerned about the definitions at stake in this case. if it proceeds beyond today, as

justice alito said, today you are here arguing that this is not a tax, tomorrow you will be here arguing that it is a tax. no one disagreed with that. so there is a problem already in definitions in which definitions apply, but we are united in this. whether catholic, whether evangelical like myself, whether protestant, we are in agreement that this is a fundamental violation of the freedom of conscience, when the government compels an individual to pay money for something that violates a fundamental principle such as the sanctity of human life, and we would agree, we would agree with you on that, and you would agree with us, so

thank you for being an advocate. >> we're going to leave this and listen to the attorney for the nfib who argued that position in the court. >> make a prediction one way or the other. >> seem to take exception to th it didn't matter, you could go to the individual mandate without touching the tax. he was emphatic about that. >> he asked a skeptical question, on the other hand justice kagan was emphatic that the requirt requirement for all sorts of obvious reasons. it's treated -- described as a requirement, it's wacked up by a penalty, there are separate exemptions from the mandate and the penalty. there are good reasons why congress would have wanted to do it that way. and congress was less nilistic than people are suggesting. they understand that there is effect in making legal obligations because at least some people will choose to

follow the law even if they won't be fined for breaking the law. >> to your clients from the mandate as being the fact that there would be additional people taking advantage, required to get coverage. >> in medicaid. that's the state's -- that's one of the state's interests in challenging the mandate. my clients are private individuals who don't want to be forced to buy health insurance, and nfib both as an organization that represents those individuals and in its own right. >> what about the jurisdiction question, why is that so important? >> whether the injunction act is jurisdictional? well, the government in this case is affirmatively arguing that the anti-injunction act doesn't apply. to