to 30 feet. >> march 30th, 1981, would-be assassin john hinckly fires six shots, this weekend on "american artifacts" on the race to save a president, sunday at 7:00 and 10:00 p.m. eastern on "american history tv" this weekend on c-span3. there's a new website for "american history tv" where you can find our schedules and preview our upcoming program. watch featured video from our regular weekly series as well as access history tweets and social media from facebook, youtube, switter and four square. follow "american history tv" all weekend, every weekend, on c-span3 and online at cspan.org/history. each week at this time "american history tv" features an hourlong conversation from c-span's a sunday night interview series "q and a," here's this week's encore "q and a" on "american history tv."

>> this week on "q and a," our guest is author and historian david mccollough. the interview took place at the montpelier house of the general henry knox museum in thomaston, maine. >> david mccollough, you told an audience outside of this henry knox museum a couple of days ago that everybody in america should know who henry knox is. why? >> because he's such an extraordinary story of an american who seemed to be miscast, seemed to be a fellow not prepared for the role that history had for him to may.

and who not only lived up to the role but went over the top as it were. and as an example of a man who came from very humble origins with very little advantage in the way of education or connections, he rose to be one of the most important americans of his day. the man that george washington discovered and the man that george washington counted on through nearly 8 1/2 years of the revolutionary war and who then counted on him as his secretary of war during the time as president. he started out as a boston book seller. big, stout, gregarious, robust, friendly, popular fellow who had about the equivalent of a fifth grade education and who loved books and never stopped reading.

and he became one of the best officers in the whole war. washington singled out two young men almost within a week or two weeks after washington took command at cambridge, massachusetts. as people he could count on. one was nathaniel green who was a 33-year-old quaker who had been made a major general at the age of 33 having had no military experience at all and the second was henry knox who was all of 25 and he had no military experience at all. but both of them were reading books. what they knew about the military was entirely through books, but that was an age, an era, who believed the best way to learn things is to read books. the age of enlightenment, and they are in their way wonderful

examples, personifications of the enlightenment faith. if you want to learn something, pick up a book, several books, and get reading. h his darie ing both physically ac intellectually. he and green were the only officers who became generals who stayed with the war, stayed with washington through the war. not necessarily physically personally right with him, but with him in the sense of still fighting the war. all the others either dropped out or had to leave for some other reason. but those two he picked right at the beginning who he admired for their perseverance, persevered to the end. so, it's an amazing story. but knox had the idea of going to ticonderoga and bringing back

the great cannons and mortars there which was a preposterous thought. the middle of winter. and to haul those guns nearly 300 miles all the way down the hudson valley from upstate new york and across the berkshire mountains all the way to boston was a feat almost like something from myth, but it was real. he did it. and he did it by seeing that the solution to the problem was in the problem. the problem itself was the solution. the problem is it's winter. how can you drag those huge cannon all the way in winter. and the answer, of course, was to build giant sleds or sledges as they called them. and that's what he did against every imaginable kind of challenge, both from the elements and from sheer exhaustion and danger.

there was one point when they were hauling them over the berkshire mountains when the teamsters that he'd hired refused to go on because it was too risky. the hills were too steep. coming down was the hard part, not so much going up. these things could get away, they would kill anybody that was in front. and they wouldn't go on. these men said, no, it's too dangerous, we won't go on. so, this 25-year-old book seller mounted his horse or the top of a cannon or something and gave them a 2 1/2, 3-hour speech on why they should keep on going and they did. he wouldn't give up. that was the great quality with both he and green. not to say washington. because that was among his strongest traits of character. >> this henry knox house replica which sits on route 1 in thomaston, maine, is a place that you spent almost seven hours on a friday afternoon and

evening signing autographs of your book "1776" and then speaking to a group. why -- you're a best seller. the day your book came out number one and it's been number one ever since. why would you, after all the travel you've done, do that kind of thing? >> well, i enjoy it. i like to do it. i like to meet people that read my books. i like to meet people who read books, care about american history. so that i was very happy to make a book tour. it's exhausting, but it's also exhilarating. it's also very heartwarming, gratifying, to see what interest in american history there is everywhere, to give a talk in los angeles, which is 3,000 miles and 229 years away from the year 1776 in a world that is so different as to be unimaginable to those people who participated in the revolution.

and there are people in los angeles the year 2005 who turn out in sizable numbers to -- because of their interest in that founding time. and that's to me very exciting, very gratifying. but here, in the knox house, i, you know, strongly that these historic sites and museums are very important adjuncts or even major participants in how we educate our children and grandchildren. to bring people here to this house, bring people to presidential home or to great battlefield or historic site of one kind or another is to inspire and to open up the mind in a way that is not exactly like a book or a movie or an

original letter. it's something else. and i think these places speak to us. i think they speak to us very -- in a very moving way. and the idea that this house, for example, was designed by general knox, that this was an expression of their time, their culture, what mattered to them. this oval room here, for example, which would have been familiar to knox because of the white house, let's say, is a very period piece that speaks to us today. these two big fire maplaces arel very important because it is a different time, different values, different notions of proportion, scale, what the good life can be. now this, of course, was the

home of a very wealthy, prominent people who had risen high in the eyes of their country. but it's amazing, for example, to go to mt. vernon or monticello and hear grown-up visitors saying that they're surprised to find that neither jefferson nor george washington had indoor plumbing or electricity. and so when you come into a room like, people might say, why would they have two fireplaces? and that begins to open up the realities of that earlier time. we forget how much more difficult life was then, how much more inconvenient, uncomfortable, closer to the vagaries of nature and the hardships of living in a rough climate such as maine.

because we're so insulated from the facts of life as they knew them. we're insulated from the cold, the heat. we're protected by wonderful drugs, medicines. we don't have to worry much about epidemic disease the way they did. we don't have to get up at 5:00 in the morning to start the fire to make the breakfast, and we don't have to saddle our own horse or go out and take care of the stock. we don't have to leave the premises for the call of nature. we're softies compared to people of that time. and when you realize all that they had to do just to get through a day in peacetime or under the best of conditions, and then how they respond to

real adversity, that's humbling. abigail adams in a letter to her husband when he was at philadelphia, the second continental congress, said future generations which will reap the blessings will have no conception of how -- of the hardships and sufferings of their ancestors, and that's true. even for someone who lived on a handsome a scale and style as did the knoxes. >> you gave a speech at hillsdale college back in april, and it kind of dovetails what you just said about that period versus now. i got a quote written down i want to read back to you. it says, when all that matters is success, being number one, getting ahead, getting to the

top, you're referring to the attitudes back then to today, that the attitudes getting to the top, however you betray or gouge or claw or do whatever awful thing is immaterial if you get to the top. you think we've changed since the john adams era or the henry knox era and -- >> i do. >> and why? >> well, for many, many reasons. for one, their education, their notion of history was based on the classical mold, the history of greece and rome. their understanding of virtue, honor, character was all derived from greek and roman history. and the idea that those who are cast in the parts of importance or in minor parts have to live up to the role they've been assigned.

and because they are on the stage of history. and if you have a sense of history, it isn't just that you have a sense that there was a lot that happened before you came on the scene, but that you also realize that when you pass from the scene, you will be part of what constitutes history. very important point. they think of themselves as they're going about what they do as being some day judged by history. if you go into the old congress on capitol hill, in the capitol, now statuary hall, over the door there is a rendition of clio, the goddess of history, and she is in a chariot and the chariot is holding a clock, seth thomas -- excuse me, a simon willard clock, which was

installed there about 1815 if i remember correctly. and the members of congress when they look up to see what time it is in their moment, their morning or their afternoon, they see cleo writing in her big book, her book of history, to remind them, these members of congress, these representatives of the people, that they're not just being judged by their own time, there was the time of the clock, but they're being judged for all time by history. now, washington, jefferson, adams, as can also be said for their opponents, british and the loyalists, those who were convinced that they were the true patriots, they had an education which gave them that perspective. and it's very wonderfully expressed in the play "cato" which was the most popular play

of the day. and in the play there's a line which goes "we can't guarantee success in this struggle or this war but we can do something better. we can deserve it." and what that is saying is that the outcome is not in our hands. there are too many other factors involved including the hand of providence or god or chance or circumstance or whatever. we can't control that. as individuals. of course, the individual, an individualism are essential to the whole idea of the enlightenment. but we can control how we behave. we can deserve it. so, even if we lose, if we deserve to have won, we will have won in that sense. very different from the present day attitude, and i think a very healthy reminder. there's a kind of a hubris that

the people that preceded us weren't quite as bright as we are and weren't quite as savvy about life and the realities of what matters. that's an arrogant and i think ignorant view of life. there's so much we can learn from history, and there's so much we can learn from those people. and they are what interest me, the people. >> but what has caused the attitude of today in your opinion? >> i think it's been caused by an enormous variety of choice, which is sometimes benumbing. i think it's been caused by the stepped-up momentum of life, and i think it's been caused by

materialism. too much luxury. samuel johnson says somewhere that what really does a people is too much luxury, too much of a much. and lack of leaders -- i don't just mean political leaders, but leaders of all kinds and of all faiths, genders, races, all kind, who express the core values, to use the current expression, in ways that people are moved by. there are several misconceptions, people say, well, they lived in a simpler time. you see, i just saw it the other

day in an article in one of the papers, those who lived in a simpler time. there was no simpler time. in fact, i could make a good case i think that the 18th century was a far more complicated time, a far more challenging time because of how much someone had to know just to survive to get by. if somebody said to me, you've got to -- you've got to go out and ride in a wagon from here to pittsburgh, pennsylvania, in december and who would you like to take along with you, i'd say give me a couple of those people from the 18th century, they'd make it because they know how to do so much that we don't know how to do. we are the simpler time in some ways. now, we are a more revved-up time. we are a more self-conscious time. we are reported, portrayed,

characterized, analyzed endlessly every day as a people, constantly, and so much attention from the press, from television, about things that are of no real consequence. and it's very confusing. and i think it also lends to many people a sense that whatever you get away with it, if you can get what you want, do it. somebody does something that's off track and they say, well, at least he tried, you know. what kind of an attitude is that? you know, the old vairties, honesty, kindness, generosity, ambition to exceed -- to excel, that's different. that's what adams said.

he said i wish there were more ambition in the country and by that i mean ambition to excel. that's a different kind of ambition than to have a lot more stuff or be able to swagger about and say you are number one or whatever. >> if you total up the john adams books that you sold, 2.25 million or whatever and if you sell at least a million two printed on "1776" that's more people than were even alive in 1776 in this country. how do you explain your success, though, if this is such a bad time, people -- you are number one, you were number one with "john adams." what do you do -- >> well, i'm not sure i'm a measure of whether we're in a good time or not. i don't think we're in a bad time. i think we're in a very exciting time. i think we're a little -- i think we are a little off course now and then, but if somebody said to me which age would you most want to live in, i'd want

to most want to live right now. and there are many similarities between right now and the 18th century. both are times of tremendous change, tremendous stress for people. very technological change, changing in the 18th century just as technological change is changing our time. what's different is the speed of change, the speed of information, the speed of -- and the throwaway culture. we don't just throw away styrofoam cups. we throw away ideas. we throw away history. that's history, take it to the junkyard, that's history. nobody walks around today -- we americans believe in what's new and what's the future. nobody says, hi, brian, what's old, you know? they say what's new? that's american. nobody turns over an old leaf,

that's all in our attitude toward life. but i think one of the reasons that books of the kind that i write and books of the kind that other historians and biographers write, the success of the history channel, for example, the wonderful popularity of ken burns' films, all of that could be -- could be -- in part a measure of the fact that throughout the generation or more we haven't been educating our children very well in history. so, a lot of people in their 20s, 30s, 40s are trying to get caught up. they don't know who theodore roosevelt was, they know he was president but they have a very vague idea of what he did or why he was somebody of importance, so they want to read a book or they want to see the documentary on television. and i think some of the movies that have come along have been very effective. i think we human beings are by nature interested in history. i just think it's part of our

human nature. we want to know what happened before. once upon a time long, long ago the children's stories begin. the two most popular movies of all-time, well, not necessarily historically accurate, are historical in spirit and in setting and the rest "gone with the wind" and "titanic" that's i think a very important measure. tom hanks is now going to be producing a big multi-hour movie for television of my book "john adams." and tom hanks is a very solid and conscientious man with great integrity and taste, and i expect that that movie will reach people in a way that maybe nothing else could.

and hundred times more than any book of mine might or other authors. and if it's done right, that will be a huge step forward in my view. >> let me ask you a blunt question about that, will they show john adams without any teeth? >> i hope so. i hope so. >> why? >> and so far all the -- all that i've suggested about this -- about details of that kind, they have taken very seriously. and their efforts to make everything as authentic as possible is the most remarkable kind of integrity in that field, in that specialty, that i've ever seen. >> how many parts in the series? >> i think it's 11. >> and where will it run? >> on hbo. >> when? >> well, they're going to start filming i believe this fall. and how long it will be after that, i don't know. but they're building back lots

outside of richmond and a lot of it will be filmed in williamsburg. and some of it on location in europe. >> while we're on john adams for a moment, what do you think of the chances of having the monument in washington to him soon, and will it just be john adams or john and abigail or john quincy adams or the entire adams family? >> well, this is still open to discussion. and the congress has passed the bill making it possible, and the president has signed the bill. now we have to work out a location. i say "we" because i'm part of a group that's trying to see this happen. and it has to be a location that's in keeping with his importance. it's really a disgrace. there's no monument, no statue, nothing to john adams, and in my opinion and the opinion of others, except for george

washington, he is the most important american of that time, of that revolutionary founding time. but if you want to know what i think it should be, i think it should not be another marble tomb or obelisk and i don't think it should try to rival either the washington monument or the lincoln memorial or the jefferson memorial in scale. i think it ought to be 18th century in scale. in other words, it should be modest in size. and i am promoting as best i can the idea that it will be the adams library of american letters, and it will be a library open to visitors in a garden. cicero says somewhere that his idea of heaven was a library in a garden and john adams thought that, too, and i know you've

been to the adams house and seen the library that's in the garden there. so, this would be a library where you could come in and look at the letters, the real letters, of john and abigail adams or of john quincy adams or of jeso adams on display and these exhibits would change from time to time and you could go out and be in the garden, you want to sit on a nice bench, and it would be a garden of the kind that abigail had with fruit trees and flowers and herbs and so forth, and it would be sort of an oasis in the m midst of washington. and there would be other exhibits as well from time to time. and the library of congress and the massachusetts historical society, which are the great repositories of adams family papers, have thus far said that they would be very happy to have some of their treasures on loan

at the library. and i think it would be in keeping with part of their great contribution to american life. it isn't just -- in my view it isn't just that john and abigail adams did what they did as patriots, as believers in the cause of america and the independence and equality, but that they wrote what they did. they recorded what was happening. they describe the people. described the feelings of the time in a way that no other couple did, and that in itself, those thousands of letters, were an enormous service to their country. i don't think they wrote them tw that in mind, but that has been the result. >> a couple minutes ago one of the leaders of this henry knox museum was showing us around upstairs in the bedroom of henry knox, asking how old he was when he died, 56, and he died of a chicken bone in his throat.