talk about medicine earlier, but i wanted you to go back to the time when he blew a couple of his fingers off. at what age did he do that? and what impact did that have? you say in your book that he wrapped his hand, what, for the rest of his life in a handkerchief? >> yes. life was tough, as i've said, life was tough then, and people -- the way life battered people was apparent in their appearance. people had a crick in their neck or they had something wrong with one eye or they were scarred or they were missing teeth or they were missing fingers or part of their ear because life beat up on you. and there were no cosmetic surgeons. there were no orthodontists to fix teeth and the rest. and if you lost a tooth, you lost a tooth. if you lost it at 25, there it was. if you read the descriptions of the deserters, for example,

which are the most vivid of all the descriptions we have of those 18th century soldiers, and, again, and again there's something physically noticeable about them. henry knox lost two fingers of his left hand, third and fourth finger of his left hand, on a bird shooting expedition when he was about 22 i would guess. and he kept it wrapped because he felt it was unsightly and he didn't want that to be -- distract. nathaniel green walked with a decided limp because of a childhood accident. john trumbull, the great american painter of the day, had the use of only one eye because of a childhood accident. this was very common. but you see, they didn't let that stop them. john trumbull became one of the great painters of the time, but despite the fact having the use

of only one eye greatly altered his depth perception, and it's very interesting to see the small versions of his famous paintings, the signing of the declaration of independence or the death of warren at bunker hill, the small paintings are much stronger than the large paintings that are on display in the rotunda of the capitol in large part because of that problem. if knox and green had volunteered to serve in the army of today, they would have been rejected because they were physically unacceptable. but they didn't let that stand in the way. and in a way it makes them more vivid somehow. they're more identifiable. they're like characters in dickens. you'd know them the minute they walked in the room. you certainly would know henry knox because he would be the biggest fellow in the room. >> you mentioned earlier that knox was 25 when he first got to

know george washington, and you talk about age, 43 for george washington in 1775 and you also mention -- you only mention alexander hamilton three pages in your book and you say he was 19. what were the parameters, what didn't you write about in the book and why so little on alexander hamilton? >> because i'm never writing about what they're going to become later. that's beside the point. i'm writing about what they're doing at that point. alexander hamilton and james monroe both appear briefly because they were very minor parts of the story at that point. they were very good young officers and they're portrayed as that. but they weren't people of real consequence in what happened the way knox and green and others were. i also write about people like fitch who was a farmer from connecticut and john greenwood who was the little fifer boy from boston and joseph hodgkins

the massachusetts shoe sh shoe maker, and those people played a real part in that time, in that moment, we know because they wrote about it. you have to remember that all we know is what we have in diaries and letters. there was no correspondents covering the war, reporting what a terrific job alexander hamilton just did. nor were there artist correspondents. all we have are orderly books. other government records of various kinds and the diaries and letters. so, if somebody kept a diary or wrote a lot of letters, that really pours it out, tells you what it was like, describes the scene, describes his own feelings and describes the suffering and the hardships, then that person becomes a

protagonist because that person's taking us into the time. i try as best i can to be of the moment in how i'm portraying what happened because i think that's intellectually more honest in a way in that these people don't know what's going to happen next any more than we do in our time. they don't know what the outcome's going to be. they don't know that alexander hamilton is going to be secretary of the treasury. nobody is even thinking about that. they are thinking about can i survive the next hour, and they're very often in a situation where they don't know what's happening. confusion reigns all around and that's important to remember. if you're trying to get inside that time and understand the humans' situation and to feel it. i don't think you can really know anything until you feel it, brian. i think that you've got to -- you've got to care. otherwise you can get all the facts and figures and statistics

in the encyclopedia. and facts and figures aren't necessarily the truth. and i'm -- i'm drawn into the time and the experience as it happened to the people who were there. and if i have -- if i have someone watching over my shoulder judging me in my mind, in my subconscious mind even, it isn't the reviewers or the other scholars, it's those people. are they going to read what i wrote or what i'm writing and say, yeah, you or are they going to be saying, look, you're way off mark here. that's not what it was like. let me tell you what it was like.

and if there is a hereafter, i hope they're going to tell me, you did all right, boy. you did all right. >> when did you decide that there would be a book "1776," do you remember? >> while i was writing "john adams." at the point where adams was in philadelphia and they're getting reports of what's happening in new york. and when the report comes back that the battle of long island has been a fiasco, that 1,000 americans have been taken prisoner, that more than 300 americans have been killed, that washington has been outflanked and outsmarted and then the escape from brooklyn. when i read all of that which was happening -- which adams, of course, was not taking part in and writing a biography, you can't stray off to write for five or six or ten pages on something that he has no involvement in, i thought, you know, i'd really like to write about all that was going on besides what was happening in

independence hall in philadelphia. and how much of all that was happening in philadelphia had ended on what this ragtag army under washington, how they were performing, how much chance they had. >> when did you decide to call it "1776"? >> after it was all written. i never, never decide on a title in the book's all written. i often don't know what the book's really about until it's all written. >> how long -- >> people will say to me at the beginning, what are you working on? well, i'm working on a book on the revolutionary war in 1776, well, what's your theme? i have no idea what my theme is. i hope by the time i'm finished writing the book, i'll know what the theme is. but i also at the end of the book, if i can step back and look at it and say, well, i think this might be the title.

>> what's your reaction to the sale? are you surprised at all? >> oh, i was -- it took my breath away. it's been extraordinary. >> what printing is it in? >> i think it's in the ninth printing now. >> how many books total out there? >> a million and a half. first printing was a million copies. and when the publisher told me that, i said, i hope you know what you're doing. it just -- i couldn't believe it. and it's -- but, you know, the kick, the reward, the pleasure, is in the work. that's really what matters. >> when did you finish it? >> in november of last year, november of 2004. >> you just said that you made your decision inside the time you were doing "john adams" on "1776." did you make your decision on the next book inside writing

"1776"? >> no, have not. i'm still thinking about it. >> how big of a tour did you do for this book? >> 24 cities. >> what is a vigorous 70-year-old man going to 24 cities selling a book that you didn't have to? >> no, i like it. i enjoy it. there are some days when i thought, you know, i just can't do this. but then the next morning i thought, come on, let's go. i like meeting people. i like people. i like seeing what's happening in the country. and i can tell you i went to many of the same cities four or five years ago when "john adams" was published and to go back to the same cities and see how they're changing and what exciting things are going on, new libraries, new convention centers, cities looking better than i've ever seen them look. i think there's much to be very encouraged about by modern present day america. i really do. and people happy in their work

and proud of their cities and optimistic. it's very reassuring. i've come back feeling better about the country. i come back feeling better about the time we live in. and more confident about the future. >> well, give us a sense, then, of what kind of a next book do you think you want to do. because if you're energized that much five years later, just think what it will be five years from now. what kind of a book does the country need? >> oh, i never think about that. i never think about what the country needs. i think about what i want to do. what gives me a -- you know, that's it. because you have to live with these subjects day after day. and if you aren't enthusiastic about the work. >> what's your inclination right now? i'm not going to talk about it. >> why? i want to know.

>> because i -- well, i have this morning 24 ideas for a book that i'd like to read. books that i -- that don't exist that i would dearly love to read, which has been part of the way that i've gone about it my whole writing career, life. i've been doing it for 40 years, and i just trusted my own -- it's like -- i don't know what it's like. suddenly, i know that's what -- you could say something this morning in this conversation and i would say there it is, that's it, that's what i want to do. and i don't push it. i just don't get going just for the sake of getting going. well, i'll give you an example. you're too good a guy, brian, not to give you one example. i would love to read a book about everything that was going on in london during the revolution.

wonderful, wonderful big subject. loyalists who have gone to london, all these hundreds, thousands, thousands of americans who were there. the american painters who were all there, who are -- people of considerable consequence, benjamin west at copley, trumbull -- trumbull goes over during the war. they think he's a spy. well, he might have been. they put him in the tower of london for a while. and there was a lot of spies on both sides, french spies, british spies, great material. and, of course, all the politics of the time with people like edmund burke and others who are on the side of american point of view, to a point. they still call them our colonies. and the milieu of it all. and the same kind of book could

be written on the civil war, all that was going on on the civil war. i would love to read a book about charles wilson peale, the philadelphia painter, who is into everything. you talk about the kind of 18th century enthusiast who was a painter and a tinkerer with mechanical devices, inventor, an archeologist, a soldier, a politician. he was everything. and he wrote wonderful letters and kept a great diary. he knew everybody. and the idea of doing someone who isn't a politician and who isn't a general or a soldier appeals to me. >> no interest in the present? i mean, you know, in your hife time -- >> no. no. >> no more harry truman? >> well, that's not quite the present. >> but, i mean, in your lifetime. >> in my lifetime, not particularly.

i think i'll stay in the 18th century. i really like it there and i'm starting to know everybody. and i like the change. i like the literature. i like the art. i like the architecture very much. >> how did you get to know henry knox? >> through his letters. >> where did you find them? >> well, they're in a variety of places. most of them are -- were at the morgan library in new york. they're now at the new york historical society. but the diary of his trek with the guns from ticonderoga which i've reproduced in the book, in the picture secotion of the boo in its actual size is in the massachusetts historical society. >> are you still on the board there? >> no, i've never been on the board. but i'm actively involved in it.

that's one of the most collections in the country. it's three presidential libraries in one in a way. it has all the adams papers, all the john adams papers and the john quincy adams papers and a great part of the jefferson papers. >> i wanted to ask you about boards because you pop up a lot on that, everybody wants you on the historical boards. how many do you serve on now? >> at the moment i'm on no boards. but i'm as active as i can stay in working for mt. vernon and for the library of congress and the massachusetts historical society, the national trust for historic preservation. the new york historical society, monticello. and libraries in general. public libraries in general. i do a lot -- as much as i can to support, help make known the

opportunities presented by public libraries, but also the responsibility communities have to support them. i'm an honorary member for a big drive now for the pittsburgh carnegie library which was the first public library that i ever went to. i owe so much to libraries. i owe so much to the library of congress that i will do what i can to help the library of congress for as long as i can. >> you've probably given henry knox more publicity than he's ever had in his life with your book, wouldn't you say? >> i don't -- i guess that's right. >> you don't see a lot about him. but i was told this house got 14,000 viewers, 14,000 visitors in the last year. and that's relatively small, but a lot of libraries visitors are going down. the new lincoln library is way

down. what advice do you have for the library here to get people to come here and to bring it to life? >> to encourage everyone who does come here to tell other people that it's a very worthwhile place to stop and that you can't miss it. coming up route 1. >> anything they should do here, though, once they get people in to entertain them or inform them? how do you -- >> i think that people come into these spaces, into these rooms, and know the story. it's the story that pulls people in. you drive by a house and you say that that's a beautiful house and nothing ever happened there. not too interesting. you could drive by a house that looks like a shack and start telling a story of what happened there, and people will absolutely be interested. i think that our affection as a

people for historic landmarks, for historic buildings of all kinds, has increased tenfold if not more in the last 30, 40 years. the whole movement to protect historic buildings has grown in every part of the country. they're not just going in and tearing down old buildings because they're old buildings anymore. people really don't like that. we lose something of ourself. we lose something of our soul every time a historic building or a beautiful building from period of times past is destroyed. we're vandals. it's just not the right thing to do. >> we don't have a whole lot of time but i do want to switch subjects because you've talked a lot lately about teachers and you testified in front of congress. you've given several speeches. this begins from the hillsdale

speech and i want to read it. we have to do a far better job of teaching our teachers. we have too many teachers who are graduating with degrees in education. they go to schools of education or they major in education and they graduate knowing something called education but they don't know a subject. we had some teachers at c-span this summer and they weren't very happy when they heard you say that. what do you mean there? >> i think that a teacher ought to have a good liberal arts education and major in a subject, major in history or spanish or physics or whatever. because a young teacher going to work for the first time in a classroom who doesn't know history or doesn't know biology and is required to teach that subject has a big handicap, needless to say, not just because they don't know the subject, but because they have no enthusiasm for the subject. and most of us have been lucky enough to have had teachers in

our past with experience who were enthusiastic about what they were teaching, and it was that enthusiasm, that love of their subject, that was infectious and that opened the door for us or threw open the window for us. and furthermore, if the teacher doesn't know biology or history or mathematics, then they become much more dependent on textbooks which are often more than we would wish, far less than what we would wish. some of them are abysmal. some of them it would seem as if they're designed -- the history text designed to kill any interest a youngster might have in history. we have to have teachers who love what they're teaching and who use good books. the essential ingredients for education are not fancy buildings and lesson plans. the essentials of education are great books, great teachers and

the midnight oil, hard work. we don't emphasize work enough in teaching. now, i'm talking -- i'm -- these are all generalizations. there are superb teachers. and i think as i said in that same speech, as i say at every opportunity i have, there's no more important person in our society than our teachers. they count more than anybody. they are doing the most important work of anybody in our way of life. i have a son who's a teacher, and i'm as proud as can be that he's a teacher. and i know how much he has to put up with that is less than what one would want. >> what does he teach and where does he teach? >> he teaches english literature in high school in massachusetts. and he's a very good teacher. >> one of our teaching fellows this summer, they sent me a lot of questions for you here, so i'll just ask one of them. what are the rewards of teachers -- this comes from jennifer morley who teaches in

tampa, high school. what are the rewards for teachers who do have excellent historical knowledge and are exceptional in their field? in other words, do they get anything extra when they are good? >> i think it's the reward of the work itself. and the knowledge that they are influencing hundreds, thousands, of young americans in the course of their careers. i don't know what the statistics are, how many lives, a teachers will touch in the course of a career of 25 or 30 years, but it must number to a sizable crowd. and that's very important. and the love of learning. to convey the love of learning. that's maybe the most important thing a teacher can do. because education only just gets rolling after you leave school, after you leave college or graduate school, that's when you really begin to learn and when

you really begin to read. if you've had that instilled in you. >> some teachers are not very happy with the no child left behind. >> yes. >> one of the questions that janet lipscom asked, can any exam give an idea of the student's willingness to participate in democracy? >> no. it's simply a measure. it's a measure of how much is known or not known. when a youngster can't tell you who -- when a senior in a university, a good university, can't tell you who the commanding american general was at the surrender of cornwall la corn wallace at yorktown ask a problem, whether knowing it was george washington will make you a better citizen, that's immaterial. that's another question. but the fact that a person doesn't know that washington was the commanding american general

at the surrender of yorktown indicates that that student probably doesn't know what yorktown was or why it was important, and if he or she doesn't know why that is important clearly doesn't know much about the history of the revolutionary war, and not knowing about the revolutionary war is a serious flaw and maybe indicates that we are not educating our children as well as we should. there's no question about the historic ignorance among young americans. no question about it. it's been shown in countless studies and surveys. and anyone who teaches or lectures or spends time on american college or university campuses these days, as i do, knows that from firsthand experience. >> a recent statistic in "the washington post" sewed thhowed % of the children born in washington, d.c., are born out of wedlock. if you have a single parent that

is working two jobs, how can you spend time at the dinner table? >> it depends on how you allocate your time. how much time is that same family watching television? the average family spends three to four hours a day, the average american fam family, three to four hours a day watching television, don't tell me that you can't give up an hour of television doing something of this kind. i think the dinner table conversation, and i've had many, many people say they agree from their own memories and experience the dinner table conversation can be over the lifetime of a child, a lifetime at home, more important than school. >> but what if they don't have any history of knowing history, the parent? >> they know the history of their own lives. they can talk about what their fathers or mothers or grandmothers did, where they came from, what part they played in american life or american history.

or they could go to the library and get some books. public library. look at the public library. there they are in every community, open, free. free to the people as it says on the boston public library. every -- all the knowledge, all the information, all the art and literature and ideas of history, of all-time, are available in the public library to everybody for free. no other -- no other society, no other civilization in history ever had any such advantage and we take it for granted. and people say, well, there's not enough money now. of course, there's enough money. do you have any idea what we spend on lawn care or potato chips? of course, there's enough money. how a society spends its money as can be said also for how the individual spends his or her money, is a pretty good index of

what matters to them. and our public libraries ought to matter to us. you could get a complete education, college education, a graduate school education, by just going to the public library. for free. which was part of the idea in the first place, that there should be no lid on people because they can't afford to go to college and universities. so, we'll have a public place where they can all go. >> we're about out of time. when do you expect for us to say another david mccollough book? >> i have no idea. how long a book takes is how long it takes, like lincoln said about his legs, you know, somebody said how long are your legs, he said they're long enough to reach the ground. i have no idea. it depends on how large the subject is. >> one last henry knox question. when you looked through his life, what one thing looms the

most important? >> that the man had the capacity for a great idea, imaginative, innovative idea, and -- and -- the capacity to make it happen. ideas are often pretty easy. it's doing them that can be hard. he did both. he had the idea and he did it. >> thank you, mr. mccollough. >> thank you, brian. >> for a copy on dvd or vhs tape, call 1-877-662-7726. for free transcripts or to learn more about "q and a," visit us at qanda.org. "q and a" programs are also available as c-span podcasts.