man's character. i think we're honing in on it. we're getting there, and that's a lot of pleasure in that. now we're just fitting in the rest of the pieces. we will tell those two stories. we will. we're not going to ignore them. >> but i think to me the strength is that it's -- there's nothing more beautiful than an empty room or an empty space. i would say the best architecture, forgive me, frank, is no architecture. >> it's just space, and i think that that's the beauty of this idea is that it's space. and in our cities and whatever, so much is needed and not another blockbuster building,

you know, but just space. and that's in the character of this man. i'm from texas. he was born in texas, and the landscape of texas is in all my work. it's in my head. it's a way of thinking. this landscape. i met a woman who is a violinist a few years ago in taipei. she is from brooklyn, and i heard her playing in a concert, and she said to me afterwards, she said, you know, the brooklyn bridge is in my mind all the time. i was born by the brooklyn bridge. it's in my head.

i said the landscape of texas is in all my work. so somehow this landscape is inherent in this great man. >> so frank, you have described this project as an emotional portrait of dwight eisenhower, using the power of architecture, landscape and visual art to tell this life story and to represent his strength and values. and at the same time, paying attention with the balance between respectful and boring. so talk about the boring piece. >> well, it's hard to comment on that. but i think expressing the man is not boring, and if we do it right, it will resonate and be strong. >> resonate is a good word. the history books have recorded him in a certain way, but this

is something i think that we can reflect on in multiple ways. >> i think that there are people that think this is too big a space for eisenhower. he wasn't as important as that space. it's why does he have a space that's bigger than somebody else? he doesn't. he's just going to have a little plank with a little boy. this is just an image to contexturalize and modify the location so that it can accept that little modest piece and not get lost in the hubbub of the city. i think it's going to be very modest. >> you know, let's see if i have this.

>> what are you looking for? >> i said, in one of our meetings, if you take a space that's this big and you put it in a space -- >> that's what they thought i was going to do. space, this is bigger, because there's more space around it. >> yeah. >> and that's sort of the idea. >> that's the idea. >> so the intent is to use content from carl's library to enhance the experience. >> carl is a living library. if i go have coffee with him and say, i would like to have a coffee, can you get me this kind of coffee, he said, well, eisenhower used to -- that's been the fun of this, the people involved. just fantastic.

>> so this is still very much a work in progress. >> we're getting close. we have budget and technical stuff, and we have the landscape, which joe brown was here. where's joe? there he is. >> and attention to materials for the fabrication? >> well, right now we're talking about the columns being stone. that seems to be the right thing to do in this location. we're pretty close to our budget, so we're doing well. there's not going to be any -- the maintenance part of this is very carefully thought out.

we're doing tests on the tapestry to ensure that it will last at least 200 years, but you can see it's pretty simple. you can just spray it and clean i don't think things are going . so it's just spraying that and maintaininga there's no complicated waterfalls, or there may be a little fountain or something but -- to get the trickle, trickle of water, the sound of water, but i'm not sure. the lighting will be interesting, how you light this

at night. and it looks different from behind and from forward. and it changes during the day. so it will be very interesting. it will have a different persona. >> i think it's going to be very -- >> i don't know if there's a night picture. >> beautiful at night. >> there it is. >> and you can see to the left, this shows the landscape down at the bottom, a building and the openness. these are just tests of the various pieces. and we actually made -- tomas

made a face of eisenhower's eyes in that material, and it's recognizable. so if we wanted to put figures, we don't, but if we were, you know -- if we wanted to, if it became an issue, we're able to do it. so we're vetting this thing. >> so the side panels will be trees also? >> yes. the landscape just continues around. you know, you can put eisenhower the general on one side and eisenhower the president. we tried it. i've got pictures of all this. when you do these things, the first thing you do is figure out the ten most obvious things to do, and then you do them and look at them and then reject them. but it's -- that's the normal process for guys like us. >> does that include -- you talked earlier about other memorials. is there a particular memorial

that you think is good? >> lincoln. >> absolutely. lincoln, washington. >> and mia lin. >> oh, beautiful. that's great. >> she was my student, so i'm proud. >> she was a good one. >> is that the end of the slides? >> i don't know. that's the dure. so you can see where tomas got it. he was very clever to do that. there's the more intense part at the bottom, which is still transparent. you can still see through it. and this is the conundrum representative, the man as president ran -- >> here's the homecoming speech. >> yeah. >> so it's here. >> can you all read it?

>> because no man is really a man who has left out of himself all of the boy. i wanted to speak first of the dreams of a barefoot boy, always in his dreams is the day when he finally comes home to a welcome from his hometown. because today, that dream of 45 years ago has been realized beyond the wildest stretches of my own imagination. i came here to thank you and to say that the proudest thing i can do in that is that -- that i can claim is that i'm from abilene. >> yeah. >> wow. >> there's the little -- >> there's the boy. it's hard to get this done, and we're getting help by an artist friend, charlie ray. >> there is a small museum on

the aircraft carrier "uss eisenhower," and that photograph is this evening on its way to that museum, because they've asked for some new photographs. >> really? >> that's one of them. >> we're trying to find other photographs just so we have -- i with -- this one is pretty special. >> it's great. >> this is the photograph from the military that we all like. >> oh, good. >> and this is the photograph we like on the right of him, or this one. this is when he was giving the military industrial complex speech, he looked like that. >> that's right. >> and we could use the medal or

the eisenhower jacket. >> mm-hmm. >> so if you made it out of stone, like the elgin marbles, and these are pictures we looked at. okay. >> terrific. >> so why don't we open it up for questions. there are microphones on either side. and you really need to use a microphone because c-span is recording tonight. >> can you hear me okay? i'll talk loud. >> are the microphones on? >> you need to turn them on.

>> so you may not remember this, but about three or four years ago in "the washington post," there was this incredible photo of robert todd lincoln at the lincoln memorial when it first opened. and i would give serious money to find out what he was thinking. so my question is, what kind of role did the descendants play in your analysis. >> the what? >> the descendants, the grandchildren and great grandchildren. >> well, we've met with them. >> they've been cordial. they have their opinions. they're strong. we've listened to them. i think that when we say we're finished, they'll realize that we've listened to them. right now there may be a little question about we haven't shown how we're dealing with the president and the military man. so everybody involved is questioning how you're going to do that, and i'm questioning it myself. but we're getting there. >> mr. gehry, previously you've been quite forthright publicly about your design philosophy. if i may quote something you've

previously said. you said life is chaotic, dangerous and surprising. buildings should reflect that. likewise, thinking of this center, you said i think of this in terms of controlled chaos. i always relate it to democracy. democracy is pluralism, the collision of ideas. our cities are built on a collision of thought. there's a bridge, a huge hunk in the distance. if it wasn't for democracy, it would all look like one thing. given your stated predilection for statements of chaos and danger in architecture, is this project a continuation of that or a departure? and did you explain your design philosophy while applying to the commission? >> you know, it's like you pick -- i've got a nose hair here if you want to -- you guys, i don't remember the context of that talk. i probably was talking to a

bunch of students who were not -- who were afraid, and i usually try to say that the chaos of the world around us is a fact, and recently it's gotten to be more of a fact. and how do you build within that, that if i'm building a city in the 19th century or in the 18th century, i have a format. the cities of europe have six and seven-story buildings lining the streets. they are all similar. they're -- they create a quite beautiful city. in the democratic world, which i don't want to give up, believe me, is everybody has their right to build what they want as long as they live within the zoning codes and stuff. law enforcement. >> anything you want, no matter if it's a big hunk? >> what? >> does it matter that there's

stylistic harmony within washington, d.c.? >> yeah, i know. i'm not talking about washington. >> this is where the memorial is going to be built. >> yeah, i know. i'm not talking about washington. >> this is where the memorial is going to be built. >> do you think this is chaotic? >> well, i happen to think that the giant screen represents winter, permanent winter, trees without leaves and it represents death and annihilism in the way i see your black t-shirt, much beloved by hipsters and annihilists everywhere and and it's a total rejection and everything that eisenhower himself stood for.

>> hi. mr. gehry, thanks for coming to speak with us today. i just want -- a certain analogy popped in my head as we were watching this and watching your explanation. i don't know if you're familiar with the story "the emperor has no clothes," but they're weaving together a suit of invisible clothes until a little barefoot boy says the emperor has no clothes, and i just think -- you said it's not necessarily post-modern what you're doing,

but it just seems to strike me as post modern. i don't know if you're familiar with c.s. lewis and the space trilogy, but in that age, they have metal trees. they no longer have real trees, metal birds, and a place where there is a huge amount of space, and can you use real trees and you do use real trees, why do you think of making metal trees so ridiculous? it seems to me like the emperor has no clothes, and how is this a memorial reflecting his great deeds and great works? i think as you said, the lincoln memorial, the washington monument, things that are so striking and that honor these great men and this just seems to me as -- >> can i answer? >> sure. >> do you have more? >> that's it. >> lincoln memorial is in a greek temple. what's that got to do with lincoln? >> it's -- i think my mike -- okay, it's on. but it's the deeper symbolism as

i said in the hearts of our nation. these principles which are classical last forever. >> okay, okay. so in our nation, in our history, in world history, the tapestries have been used to tell stories throughout the world. raphael made them. >> i find you saying that this is a tapestry a little bit ridiculous. i mean, it's just metal. i don't call that a tapestry. but i guess it just depends on definitions. >> okay. >> all right. thank you. >> phew. >> my question is a little different. i'm looking at the columns here, which appear to be rectangular in the photo. i know out in central kansas, in the abilene area, farther west, there are a lot of limestone fence posts cut rectangular. were these intended to be reminiscent of those limestone fence posts? >> no. i didn't think of it that way. i was looking at the grain elevator.

>> good evening. well, i'm from the midwest, and i'm the chairman of the board of an organization called american forests. so i couldn't be more delighted with the design and i thank you. [ applause ] i'm just curious. i read in the newspaper about a possible e-memorial, and i know that there's been talk about needing some fund-raising from the general public. is that e-memorial a way to thank the donors, or what's that all about? could you elaborate. >> we are working on an e-memorial, yes. >> what will that be like? >> don't know yet. >> we'll stay tuned. >> yes, i was wondering to what extent do you expect or actually intend for the viewer at the memorial to come away with a good sense of the historical

context within which eisenhower was an actor? will there -- i don't know whether it will be like writing and some inscriptions about the historical aspect of these times, and/or do you expect there to be like the usual brochures available there where people will be able to get a better sense of him in history? >> well, i think in some aspects, yes, we'll do that, but, you know, we have that in history books. we have that in a chip. and i think as artists, and frank's an artist, myself, we're not there to do what history books do. it's not a lesson in history.

but it's -- i see it as something more poetic. and so content, specific content related to the history of the man, yes, there will be references to it, but i think that is not our main objective. that information is available right here in your computer. >> hi. do you plan to have a -- as far as landscapes go, do you plan to have a specific trees with meaning behind them or just old tree that you plant there? >> when we were in abilene we

saw the sycamores with the silver bark, they were common all around his house. and then we found out they're also common in washington. >> here. we're showing now. we are not -- i don't know if all of the treil >> thank you. >> the garden is going to be a park, a garden, a pretty nice garden, a place where there is shade and the tapestry will be very transparent so it will be like a film that organizes the space. >> yeah, i just wanted to encourage you guys to talk some more. i am very impressed with the design, reflecting his home town. it's quite a personal reflection others, you k about the marble know, the formality of some of the others.

to me you're kind of going back to a beating heart, to their sense of community. and i just think that's -- to me, i've been to abilene. i've seen the documentaries on the history channel, and i'm very struck by whatouo. and i think you're going accomplish. i wondered some more is it -- i wondered some more is it a goal to humanize it. >> it was. >> did you follow me -- t beat his chest and talks about it. so he survived all of that -- all of those great accomplishments and he still didn't say hey, look at me. that's the guy. i mean, that's rare. and i think it's so rare it is great to show it. >> to show his hometown. it's very striking. thank you. >> this question is for both of you.

specifically mr. gehry, you've always been willing to reach out to disparate professions to kind of advance the profession of architecture. what role do you think reaching out to other practices and keeping the boundaries between practices open do you -- how important do both of you think that is to advancing each of your own professions? >> to reach out to? >> going way back to jim glymth and katia bringing aerospace engineering into architecture. >> oh, yeah. well, that's still going. we're doing that. and we're sharing it with as many people as we can. we trained zaha. i think that's a real important thing.

>> mr. gehry, my husband and i wit this piece of land. we have gardened there for 30 years. >> wow. >> it's been a community garden known as independence garden. we have batted around, you know what eisenhower want? and i think the first thing we came up with, a putt-putt golf course. he of course loved golfing as anybody old as we are can remember that he was a very avid golfer. this of course is unlikely. but we would like to -- that you put as much green and openness, because as i say, as gardener ins for 30 years, we have people from all over the world come and say oh, what a wonderful spot this is.

i have this, i can show you later. what a wonderful spot this is. this garden, this oasis in the middle of washington. and -- i think eisenhower would love that. so i hope that you will provide some green. we know that -- that we're history. we realize that. >> we have our green guys here. joe, why don't you get up and talk about it. >> our what? our green guys. okay. we know we are history. we know this is a done deal and this will be the eisenhower memorial. we go gracefully. but we hope that -- that you will put as much green in it as possible, a place where people can come and relax and not be covered, you know, not just stone-covered and not just tapestries or whatever, but a place where people can commune. i think that's what eisenhower would want too. >> that's exactly what we are trying to do.

we don't want to bombard it with five different memorial stations. >> maybe i can show you this later so i can show you what 30 years has been to us in our connection to this spot of land. thank you, mr. gehry. >> we hope it continues to be. >> i'm sorry? >> we hope that it will continue to be your spot. >> thank you, we would appreciate that. >> joe? >> joe brown, who is our partner in this and landscape architect. >> i appreciate those remarks. it is certainly going to be very green and sustainable. the sycamore is one tree native to this area as well as kansas. there is a green sward that runs the view corridor, sets the view corridor for the view to the capitol, so that is going to be green. there will be a collection of native landscapes that go from the green sward through some

modulated landscape through hills, valley, green covers, informal seating areas and very informal areas near the walls and statues and stone. so you'll see a very richland scape. >> good evening. we tonight have -- tonight we have seen a lot of the photos about the memorial, how it reacts during the daytime, and how the tapestry will react with the lighting. i am a little curious on how the space itself with the natural environment, greenery space will react at the night as well. will it be lit up? will it be engaging with the public and be welcoming to where it would be a nice space for people to participate in or like hang out and sit in the evenings? or -- we haven't really seen anything, so i'm just a little curious about it. >> we haven't gone that far with it.