terrace. we know it will be used for programs. we're hoping that the aerospace will let their terrace be used as a place to sit and watch. >> view. >> but i think it will vary with the time of year and weather and stuff. we see it mostly as a garden. and the story is simple. and you know people can -- orchestrate it with lighting. we're going to build in lighting so that they can do things, so that can put on events. >> since this was a collaboration, i'm just curious as to if there is anything that the two of you disagreed over and how that was resolved.

>> i don't know. i think that we went step by step and it evolved quite naturally. it was a real collaboration. but i think that -- >> it was strong. there were strong opinions. there were not -- and -- but -- they were welcome opinions. let's say. they were not conflicting in the sense that created stress or anything. >> and there is still plenty of time left. >> yeah. >> but we are, we are talking to a lot of people, we are listening to a lot of people. people are calling the commission and we meet with david eisenhower.

who is a spectacular asset for for this. he is so knowledgeable. >> one last question? >> a couple questions. i haven't heard a timeline. when is this going to start? >> i haven't either. >> what kind of metal is it? will it oxidize? how will you clean it? >> stainless steel. >> will it get sooty? >> you can spray it. >> so it will always be silver? >> yeah, i think so. i don't think they will have to spray it that often. we are doing tests on that. >> thank you.

>> we done? >> we thank you all for coming. [ applause ] >> weekends on c-span 3, it's 48 hours of american history. every week, ah tv travels to historic sites, museums and archives to learn what artifacts reveal about american history. watch it 8:00 a.m. sunday eastern and again at 10:00. american history tv also examines the presidents, their policies and legacies through their historic speeches and discussions with leading historians. that's every sunday morning at 8:30 a.m. eastern and again at 7:30 p.m. and 10:30 p.m. find more information about our programs and our other series including schedules and online video archives at c-span.org/history. >> c-span's local content vehicle cities tour takes our

book tv and american history tv perhaping on the road the first weekend of each month. this past weekend featured little rock, arkansas. with book tv at the collection at the university of arkansas. >> jay in high school collected photographs, and he was particularly, again, interested in the 19th century, the civil war in particular. these are two friends, union and confederate who knew each other prior to the civil war, who fought against each other at the battle of pea ridge in 1862. survived the war, came out alive and remained friends after the war, and here they are at 100, sitting on the porch. >> a japanese internment camp. >> a lady wrote a wonderful book called the art of guman, and it meant surviving the unsurvivable sort of. and she talks a lot about how

the arts and the crafts were sort of how they kept their sanity. and it gave them something to do. and how about depression was so bad in a lot of the camps, and that people -- there was the high incidents of suicide. so people would make these little things of beauty to give to each other just as a way to say we support you and we care about you. >> our cities tour continues the weekend of may 5th and 6th from oklahoma city on c-span 2 and 3. two granddaughters of dwight d. eisenhower voiced their opposition this week to the proposed design of a memorial honoring the 44th president. they appeared before a subcommittee hearing held to consider the views of both supporters and opponents of the design created by architect frank gehry and his collaborator theodore wilson. this hearing is 90 minutes.

>> the subcommittee of national parks, forests and public lands is meeting on the proposed eisenhower memorial. under the rules, the opening remarks are limited to the chairman and ranking committee. i ask you now to consider any other members opening comments and is submitted by the clerk by close of business today. hear nothing objections, so ordered. i want to thank everyone who has grid to testify today. although today's witnesses will express differing opinions on the proposed design, i know that

everyone, critics and advocates alike want a memorial, a monument that truly honors president eisenhower and help future americans understand and appreciate his role in american history. to my staff, who actually started some of drafting notes for me, i want them to know that i was a live when president eisenhower was elected, but i was still crawling, not necessarily that old. so most of my memories actually come from books that have been read about him, which is where many of us learned about the significant contribution of president and general eisenhower. some members of congress today probably served under general eisenhower in world war ii. and some served in korea a half century ago. whether we come from memories or personal studies, he is to all of us who led our fathers and our grandfathers in the crusade for europe, and later the president who halted and contained soviet expansion during the cold war era. i do want to note that many

lessons can be learned from his life. i recently read a biography if of president eisenhower. he talked about when he was still a lieutenant in the army. and had his first child and applied for and was given a housing increase supplement, only to find out through one of the technicalities he did not earn the supplement. when he found out and his supervisors found out, they were chagrined. he offered to pay back the 257. unfortunately, the inspector general wanted a court-martial. fortunately for the country and the world, some of his superiors realized there was potential in this young adventure and did not have the same slavish adherence to rules that sometimes we find in bureaucracies in washington today, and common sense prevailed. i say only because we're going to go directly to a bill on the floor in which do we have slavish adherence to rules or will common sense prevail?

i personally am excited. i only have three busts in my house. one is of president eisenhower that we got in abilene on one trip. today we're going to review the progress that has been made in carrying out congress's call for the eisenhower memorial that would perpetuate his memory and his cryptions to the united states. at today's hearing we're going to hear from susan eisenhower speaking on behalf of the eisenhower family and on behalf of the commission and the federal agencies that produced the current plan. we're also going to hear from citizens who have examined the proposal and want to express their views. this is perhaps a key moment because the groundbreaking is scheduled to be eminent, and we must decide whether to go ahead with the current proposal or pause for future evaluations. the information and views we hear today will be invaluable determining the course we take. i am pleased to see that c-span is televising this hearing. because just like the american people, i like ike and i want them to hear about the memorial directly from those who are involved in shaping it. when mr. grijalva who is on his

way and the ranking member of this committee appears, we will give him the opportunity to introduce his opening remarks. in lieu of that, we will ask the first representative here, senator boswell who i believe is a member of this commission who has requested to give remarks. we're very pleased to have you here at our committee, representative. actually, you can't speak yet. maybe. mr. boswell, we're really happy to have you here, and you're going to wait longer. >> thank you very much. >> you're going to have to wait because your colleague, representative grijalva who is the ranking member has arrived, and he has some opening remarks. and then we're going to turn to you, if that's okay. thank you, mr. grijalva. >> thank you, mr. chairman, and my apologies, congressman, friend.

let me welcome all the guests and felt low committee members. i want to thank everyone who is going to be involved in testifying today. i can't help feel that we're a micromanagement of something outside our purview. congress has a very limited rule in this dilemma controversy. the eisenhower mo established i october of 1999 as part of the department of defense appropriation act. it was established through the commemorative works act of 1996. eight members were appointed by congress, and we have done that part of our work. i'm not an architect. i doodle, but i don't consider it art.

some people value it as art and they could be horribly mistaken. what is the point about beauty is in the eye of the beholder. this fresh new design for the presidential memorial has been reviewed by people with far nor expertise than me. i look forward to receiving an update on the progress of the commission, and better understanding the source of the controversy surrounding the design. however, i don't think this subcommittee, the full committee, or congress is the appropriate place to litigate a memorial design or a potential family dispute. have i two letters to submit, mr. chairman, for the record. one from frank gehry, the renowned art tech chosen to design the memorial. another letter is from david childs, the former chairman of the national capitol planning commission and the commission of fine arts. again, let me thank everybody in advance for your testimony. and with that, if any remaining time with the chairman's

indulgence, if i could give that time to my colleague from california, if you may have any opening statements. >> sure. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> mr. chairman, if i might, first of all, i'm really looking forward to this hearing. i agree with the ranking member that we really ought not to make design questions here. there are others that are far more capable of doing that. and the commission has it. but it would seem to me that our purpose ought to be to make sure that this gets done, that we get this memorial under way, and that it become available for the general public to memorialize and to remind us of the incredible contributions that this man made together with millions of other americans during world war ii before and after in his presidency. so we get on with the hearing here. art is always controversial. and certainly memorials to this day, some on the monument remain controversial.

it ought to be our task to sort out any delays that there may be in the causes of those delays. and to get this project under way and completed. i yield back. >> thank you. all right, leonard, we have done our formal work here. we now turn five minutes to you for any remarks you may have. >> well, thank you, mr. chairman, chairman bishop, and ranking member, i appreciate it. it's good to be here. i kind of felt like as this came about that probably you might ebodon the commission. i wasn't on the commission it first started. was appointed after it had been started and i will talk about it a little bit. i want to make two points and i want you here to know that the commission has done what congress has asked it to do. it has been engaged. and secondly, it's followed the policies and procedures set forth, so i want to say that. and they've been working on it for about ten years, as you've already made that point, i believe you're right, it's time

to get it done. and we must move forward. commission received $63 million federal funding. about half that has been spent. so it gives you a little perspective there. i think what i'd like to do is just kind of give you my testimony of what i feel about. but first off, i'm very delighted to have family here, sisters. i got to meet them not too long ago, and read about them, and i just very impressed and very appreciative of your love and your personal care for a great, great american. when i came to the commission -- kind of interesting, i served -- by the way, i was world war ii. i just got white hair. in case you're wondering, or korea. but i did make it to vietnam a couple times. but so much for that. but before that i spent a tour in germany. i was a young lieutenant, right

out of ocs and our assignment is what we referred to as the folding app. that's where the tanks were going to come, and that was where we as members of the 8th division were going to be to meet them. we spent half of our -- for four years, not continuously, but we spent probably half of our time out there preparing, maneuvers, training, and so on. and i got very interested in this guy named eisenhower, and i became one that i too liked ike. i knew a lot about him. i went to some of the places, whether it was in belgium, or wherever it was, when i had the opportunity. i was there for four years. and i continued to grow such an admiration for this great, great person. and historically him never, ever be forgotten and this memorial in his behalf is something that needs to be done and it's long overdue and it's got to be right. but coming from south central iowa and probably as the crow flies maybe not less than 200

miles from abilene, and so on, when i was deployed to vietnam the first time i went from ft. riley, which is very nearby. so my family and i went over there to visit from time to time, and i took guest there's. and the appreciation for this gentleman that came out of that part of our country, right from the heartland, really. and read about him. i ended up being a student and then later an instructor at the commander staff college and studied the things that took place and department tactics, had a lot of classes and reviewed some of the decisions and so on that general eisenhower, supreme commander, made, leadership, read a lot of material. and then fast-forward to i'm appointed to the commission, and so i go to the first meeting and i realize that they've been operating and they've been --

the first meeting -- i may have to have an extra minute, mr. chairman, i'll tell you right now. i hope you'll consider that. but anyway, i saw the first idea and i thought, i'm not -- i'm not sure about this. and, you know, here was this statue of a young man and the great displays of the globe looking over the country and with his troops and so on. i'm not sure. and i got to thinking about it and talking to some of my staff and different ones, and before i'd read some of the things that the designers and architect had come up with, came to this conclusion, a lot of young people in this country go to the space museum. it seems to be the highest attraction. i just all of a sudden realized what a sight, what a spot, for eisenhower to be right there where youngsters would come out of that museum and just -- natural, it seemed like they would walk across the street and see what could happen in a

person's life. and i make no comparison of leonard boswell to eisenhower at all. but i was born in a tenant farmhouse and got to enjoy the american dream, and i don't have time to tell you what that means to me. but here is an example of the american dream. who would have ever thought abilene, kansas, somebody would end up as supreme allied commander and president of this great country? and did a wonderful job in both places. and so i started really falling in love with this concept for a youngster today could come out of that space museum that go there by the thousands and look across the street and see there is an example of what can happen if you apply yourself and learn and prepare. who knows what might happen to you in your american dream. so, i'm just very impressed with this. i think it's terribly important

that we continue to talk with the family, which you're going to hear about today, and the other members, because this great moment to have a memorial to a great, great american. every now and then i am still reminded of some of his wisdom, we probably all think about the little advice about the military industrial complex and many, many other things. but i just want you to know that i think the commission has taken it very serious the responsibility that the congress gave them, and they want to do it in the most possible, best manner they can to reflect this great american. among the greatest, no question about it. and so i will just say that i can't speak for them, but i can say this from getting acquainted with the other members, they're very serious about it, very sincere, and want to get the job done and be cognizant of the needs and satisfaction, of

course, of the family, absolutely. so, i think we're ready to move on. they want to do this to the best possible way, and i just want to say to you that i feel that it's an honor and a privilege that leonard boswell, born in a tenant farmhouse, gets to be here today and bear testimony and make comment that i am just proud to be part of the memory of dwight eisenhower. i was out to abilene just on the way back visiting our children and i'll close, last december. and i said to my wife, i'd like to stop another time. we hadn't been there a few years. and we just went down there and set on the grounds. didn't have a lot of time. and i shared with her some of the things that i probably hadn't before, back when i was instructing, and walking the grounds where ike had walked,

and then reflecting on where he'd come from and what he accomplished. because he exercised and took advantage of the american dream. so, with that, i thank you, mr. chairman, for listening to me and let me run over time. i apologize for that. but not too much, because we're talking about a great guy, and with that i'll close you and leave you to your work. you've got some great testimonies coming forward, different ones, susan and others, carl, people who i have great respect for. and thank you for your efforts to spend this time today as well. >> congressman, thank you for being here with us. don't worry about running out of time. i'll take it out of ralph's time as appropriate here. appreciate it. we'd also invite you if you'd like to stay with us on the dais and participate with the rest of the hearing, you may, i recognize you have a busy schedule and it may not be acceptable to you, but that invitation is there for you regardless. >> thank you very much. i may go for a moment and come back. thank you very much. >> that will work as well, thank you.

the next panel we'd like to bring up, we have i think seven seats there, seven individuals who will be able to talk to us. i'm sorry. second panel. because i don't have enough seats up there after all. is miss susan eisenhower who will be representing the eisenhower family. miss eisenhower, if we can have you come up to the microphone. and then we'll have enough room for everyone else that happens to be there at the time. once again, any written testimony that you may have to present or wish to present will be included in the record as will be the letters that the ranking member mentioned earlier will be added without objection to the record. we appreciate it. the timing device in front of you for you and everyone else who will be speaking is obviously the green light signifies that we have it started. the yellow light signifies you have one minute left and the red is when the time is expired. we're ready to hear your oral

comments. we hope you can limit them to the five minutes if possible. miss eisenhower, thank you very much for joining us. the time is yours. >> thank you very much, chairman bishop, ranking member grijalva, distinguished members of the committee. i'd like to first acknowledge my sister anne eisenhower who is with me here today. let me say that the eisenhower family is grateful to congress for designating that an eisenhower memorial be built and we'd like to thank you personally for your leadership in convening this hearing. it will allow us a frank and open exchange of views. we as a family are committed to seeing that the building of a memorial to dwight eisenhower be done in an open, democratic, and transparent way. this is what ike would have wanted. we have been gratified by the public debate that has finally begun and we're grateful to all of those who have worked on the commission and worked on the memorial, especially mr. frank gehry who has graciously interacted with members of the eisenhower family. the public debate has demonstrated that the american

people overwhelmingly endorse a memorial, but they are saying it's time to go back to the drawing board and we agree. aside from all the things that have been said in the press and in the internet, we've been inmin -- inundated as family members about the letters of the unmet challenge of creating a fitting memorial. given this, mr. chairman, the eisenhower family sees no alternative to suggest two remedies, to redesign the eisenhower memorial or call upon the commission to review its staff management and stakeholder policies. first let me address myself to the design. great monuments in our country make simple statements that encapsulate the reason the memorial has been erected in the first place. george washington is remembered as the father of our country. the lincoln memorial declares that he saved the union. the monument to christopher columbus at union station says he gave to mankind a new world. one of the main flaws of the current proposal is that eisenhower's contribution to

this nation is not the central theme of the design. instead of the focus on eisenhower, the liberator, the commander who led the largest military operation in the arfa, eisenhower the president who championed freedom and prosperity, the narrative relies on a romantic horatio alger notion. a young eisenhower viewing his future career. the eisenhower our nation wants to celebrate is not a dreamy boy but a real man who faced unthinkable choices, took personal responsibility and did his duty, with modesty and humility. symbolism will also play a vital nonverbal role in catching the essence of ike's contribution. but we have heard from many people in the last months who have objections to the 80-foot metal mesh so-called tapestries. despite the reference to this ancient tradition, modern

tapestries have been found in the communist world. marx, engels, lennon as did mao tse-tung. another mentions it effects a modern curtain. if this is how it symbolically strikes people, could the cylindrical columns also be seen as missile silos? they said the metal curtains are reminiscent is of internment. one told me quote/unquote the chain-link fences reminded her of the camps. the proposed metal curtains are to provide a screen that would partially obscure the linden baines johnson department of education. we have been concerned, and others would agree that this could be seen as a symbolic affront to one of eisenhower's contemporaries, the majority leader of the senate during his presidency. we do not think the design team thought of these things in advance. frankly, nor did we for a while.

but the public criticism does underscore the importance of context with respect to eisenhower's life and times. in addition, we're concerned that the metal scrims will cause ongoing maintenance. any high wind, leaves and trash could easily be caught in the metal gaps, requiring constant upkeep. the same can be said of interactive technology. so now let me address myself briefly to process. from the early stage, the eisenhower family has been calling for a memorial that is simple and one that focuses on eisenhower's achievements. my father, john s.d. eisenhower, ike's sole heir and executor of his will wrote do this effect. i have submitted the letter for the record. the memorial commission has repeatedly suggested that among other things the eisenhower family is not united in his views. i am also submitting a statement today from my brother david for the record.

the eisenhower family publicly intervened when we learned that the design concept was evolving. we knew it was evolving, but suddenly it was slated for fast track review and a late spring groundbreaking. we are concerned about a groundbreaking before the money and full funds are raised, and we would oppose it if the gap is too large. this will be a public/private partnership. so getting the funding element of this correct is very important. we now believe that a redesign will be the only way to make this memorial acceptable to the american people so that it can garner that support. going forward, it will be critical that the eisenhower memorial commission staff do a much better job of engaging the memorial stakeholders. the most important one being the american people. it will be their memorial, after all, and it will express not just the nation's esteem for eisenhower's leadership, but it will reflect who we are as a people, and what part of