g.i.'s on the other side. i don't know if they could see each other or if they saw each other prior to this, what the hell's going on. but that's how close they came. and i'm screaming and yelling. i stopped and i screamed and yelled. they're not very far away. >> what were you saying? >> i was screaming, north vietnamese, viet cong, everything i could say, screaming and trying to point. and nobody could hear me. the noise was very loud. and he didn't look, and i don't think the north vietnamese even seen me because it could have been another one threw the grenade at me. i don't know where that grenade came from. >> can you thinking it's these two guys? >> pardon? >> are you thinking it's these two guys or -- >> well, just the two guys i saw. i figured the place is polluted with them. they're everywhere. down in the creek bed. up in trees. i pulled my .45, and i took good aim and, you know, emptied the thing and they both slumped down. so i felt comfortable with that. i figure he's still in but at least they're taken care of. went back up to russell adams.

that's when i come back to russell. >> you're still carrying your ammo boxes? >> yeah. i picked the ammo boxes and i take them up. so this all happened, the run from russell initially back to first aid and then back up i bet you was within like five to ten minutes. >> right. >> so it took me like a minute to wrap him up, toboda. and a minute -- but i'm running this distance, 75 and 75, whatever it was. and i'm exhausted. dodging these bullets and grenades. extremely emotional. i'm laying on the ground. the ground's cracking under me. the dirt's flying up. and bullets cracking by your head and everything. so you have to jump and dodge, try to weave, end up not making an easy target for them. so i'm trying to stay alive. i'm laying down, like totally exhausted. i can't move anymore. eventually got up off my ass to get russell. so i finally catch up to russell, come up, get more ammo,

another belt of ammo and the gun. and off to his left and our rear, just less than ten yards is this g.i. laying on his back with his arm up in the air with a canteen. and he's like trying to drain the canteen. so i see that from like the vantage point on the ground, i see just this arm. i look up and i see this g.i. i tell russell i'm going to give him first aid. he's firing at the enemy, russell is. and we're being fired at the whole time. >> the machine gunners were the prime target. >> well, i guess so. which i found out later. yes, they were. the radio operators, the machine gunners, and officers. >> yes. >> anybody that was giving orders, like follow me, lieutenant taft, pick them off right away, radio operators. and i guess we were on the list also. not that the rifle man wasn't on the list either. we were all targets. i run over.

this poor guy's laying there. a radio's laying beside him. an m-16's laying on the ground. he's laying there, looking up at the skies. tall thin kid. about my height and weight and everything. but i didn't know the guy. and i didn't see a name tag or anything else. and i look, and he's got a hole in his chest. dead center. dead center. so i assumed, you know, just, not being a medic or anything, i assumed this is right through his heart. but he's still alive. and you could see, it was like -- he's like in shock. and i ripped his shirt open, and i rolled him over. i said you're going to be okay. lying like a son of a bitch. i said you're going to be okay. i guess they taught us that in first aid school, i don't know. tell the guy he's going to be all right. give him some moral support. i said you're going to be okay. expecting to see half his back blown out. it's the same little hole in the

back. so that's how close we were, the high velocity. zipped right through him. but still it killed him. but he was still alive. i patched him up with his first aid pack, patched him up the best i could. i knew it was going to be hopeless. but the poor kid, he's laying there and that sun baking. and i called for a medic there and this black medic came up. and i knew the guy's face, but i just don't know his name. but he came pretty quickly. which i was really pleased. i thought it's good somebody heard me. i'm screaming at the top of my lungs. i'm yelling medic half a dozen times. but he comes. and when i leave him to go back to russell, it's only ten yards away. i go back to russell, i think it was -- when i got close to russell where i could see him, i see he was shot. >> where? >> in the head. you know. and he's laying there. and i get up to russell. i said russell. jesus. you know, he's in bad shape.

he got shot right through the helmet. it creased his head. his head's wide open. and all this blood, mess, and everything else. and he's laying there. and he's looking up in the sky. and his mouth's open. he's not saying anything. so i lie to him. i said, you're going to be okay, russell. i've got to get the gun. the gun's laying on the side. when he got shot, everything went to hell. and we're under attack. the bullets are still hitting. cracking. so he's laying right there. and so i upright the gun, take aim out there. where we were firing last before i left him. and dpsh something i want to tell you here. i don't want to lose my thought. anyway, i start firing again. and fire and firing and firing. screamed for a medic in between. scream for a medic, medic. lo and behold, here comes

another medic. some blond-haired kid. i didn't get his name. only partial of it. i told general moore, it's like nall, n-a-l-l. which is probably part of his name. i did years of research. couldn't find the name. blond-haired kid, slight build. he came up, took care of that. we drug him back. i don't remember if i helped load him up on this kid or what. so he took him out. i'm on the gun. we're still under attack. >> are you seeing the enemy coming at you? >> yep. this particular -- here's a story. let me think if -- i was going to say something about that right there. i forgot that one thought already. >> when you took the gun over and you're calling for the medic? >> yeah. there was something there, i was going to say with a medic -- it's just -- >> did he say something to you? did you communicate or -- >> no. this second medic, we prayed -- we had like a minute to pray.

russell's laying there. he's a mess. so he's there and we're looking at this. russell's dead. he's going to die. it's a horrible thing to see. so somehow this guy, we were talking about god and stuff. we started crying, you know. i mean, the fear. >> in the middle of the chaos. >> oh, yeah. the fear just jumped on you. and the scaredest i've ever been in my life, you know. because you knew you were going to die. and we're praying to god. to each other. out loud. and crying. i remember crying. i'm not ashamed to say. you know, tears. >> do you remember what you're saying? >> i was making false promises and stuff. if you let me out of this, i'll do this. but anyhow, i'm not proud of that. but i was scared enough to seek

him out. and but anyhow, they get rid of him and stuff. so now i spot three or four of them dead center. i was getting fire from the right, which is out in the jungle only like 20 to 30 yards over. it was real bad. real nasty there. i knew somebody was directly to the right about 20, 30 yards in the creek bed, my other buddies from the machine gun -- another machine gun crew. and that was it. and this was all mine out here. and the rest of the guys are in the rear. which -- and in the jungle. which i didn't see for as long as i was up, an hour or whatever it was. but anyhow, i got everything straight. and i'm trying to get my bearing. and what i want to interject is the fear left, though, as fast as it came. all this fear came down on me i was crying and everything else. then i went back to business, it was all gone. it was like the nicest calm. like that you want to

experience. it was like -- it went from like slow motion and stuff to like serenity or something. i don't know how to put it into words. but it's a feeling. >> how did that happen? do you know? >> i don't know. it's like -- i guess you say to yourself, once you bet that out of your system real quick, you say to yourself, well, this is the way it's going to be, i'm going to die. die like a man or something. i don't know what comes over you. it's just -- i made acceptance with the situation. at that particular time. all of a sudden i wasn't scared anymore. it was like -- maybe it turned to anger. you know, when i think about it. maybe my fear turned to real anger. and i thought, all right, let's get it on, let's get the business done with here. you know, if i turn out like russ, so be it, but let's go. but for real. so there i am. i'll spot some movement directly in front of me, which is directly 40 or 50 yards.

then off to the left a nice 100 field of fire. that's when we went into the jungle off the mountain. so i was comfortable with straight ahead and off to the left but not in the jungle because they come up real close there. you see stuff moving, just firing in there. but i spotted two, three, four movement right in front. so i'm laying down fire and everything else. bullets smacking, hitting. i still don't know how i didn't get hit. you know, because i don't know if they're bolts, smacking. still don't now i didn't get hit. i don't know if they are coming from the front or the side or what. bump. you know. dirt kicks up. trying to keep your head down and keep firing. so -- i'm firing. all of a sudden my gun stops. abruptly. dead stopped. firing a gun for a while, you know. he and i. smoke coming off the gun. we are firing the hell out of it, this machine gun. i don't know. we weren't trained for this stuff. what the hell is this?

we are under attack. my gun ain't working. .45 isn't going to go good at all. i don't think i was trained for this. you do what you have to do. i opened up the cover. and -- leaned over and looked down in the gun. i could see a brass round jammed in there. so -- i thought only thing you can do is picked the gun up. laying down. picked the gun up. slammed it down on the ground and picked it back up. looked in there. and it was gone. knocked it out. put the ammo back in, put the plate down and the cover. cockpit. pressed it. pressed the trigger. it worked. that's what the assistant gunner is for. assistant gunner lays to your left. he feeds you ammo. you put it in the machine gun. keeps the ammo off the ground. anything comes -- as you are firing, goes to the hand and clean stuff off.

mine was laying in the ground. it was picking up all the grass dirt and rocks and stones, all the debris. i was taking that into the mechanism. jammed my gun. well, that scene went like in slow motion. i mean, everything went deaf, you know, don't hear nothing. you know, all the explosions and all of a sudden you are in your own world. like a macbre dream. everything stops. then until i started firing, it is all real life again. and -- you know, that incident probably -- i bet that didn't take me five seconds to do what i did there. to knock it -- round out and start firing again. but at the time there was like -- it was an hour. it seemed like an hour. they stopped coming, you know, laying down and firing nice and low. and -- because you know, like -- there was just grass and we are -- some trees. you know, some smaller trees.

was like off to the right real thick jungle. that's the last time i saw it. they were high on the ground, too. trying to crawl up. they stopped. but that was an incident there that scared the hell out of me, too. when the gun stopped. >> i can imagine. >> i wasn't trained for it, you know. you just act on instinct. then -- machine gun crew over there, i heard riviera rodriguez got shot. his guts were on the ground, he is screaming over here. he's the same hard hit we are all in. and -- i'm screaming for him to get russell. he is screaming rodriguez is hit. you know. i settled in there for -- that's what i mean. no clue for time. you know. i saw him when the sky raider

got shot down there which was very important to me. because -- when i was there, this sky raider was flying around up there. may have been a couple, i don't know. this one was flying around up there. i was watching from time to time, you know. i'm looking. i get up as high as i could without exposing myself too much. and -- i look around and kept looking and looking. he plying in and make these dives. beautiful thing to watch. so he -- comes flying down real straight down. and he's firing .50 caliber machine guns. i'm assuming that -- that's where i saw it coming here. coming over to the left a little bit. stopping most of right here. so i'm assuming -- well, he has better vantage point than me from up there. so pay particular attention for anything in this area. you know. i knew -- from my buddies there, this whole field of fire. didn't have a good thing here.

anyhow, so -- i wanted his -- he's dropping his bombs, too. rockets. whatever the hell he had on his planes. he was doing everything. and -- he makes a big dive on time and watching. bam. just burst into flames. so -- to this day i don't know if he got a machine gun from the mountains or from the ground or he was flying so low, dropping his bombs so low for real that it could have been from one of his own bombs, fragments coming up. hit the fuselage. and he burst into flames. and he -- of course, still coming. flames are way back here. leaving a big trail smoking flames. he dipped down like i said very low. he dipped down and he was just above the treetop level.

i'm telling you, he was than -- i bet he wasn't a football field high, 300 feet. football field high off the ground. just above the trees. you know, trees are like 30 feet or something like that. he was just above it. came right down behind us from the mountain and went down there. he ditched down into the -- he was killed. i found out it was captain mcclellan. find out years later who the pilot was. i tried to tell people this. i told general moore this gentleman was alive when he got hit. because i -- when i -- here is another thing. i'm laying on the ground. i'm screaming at this pilot. at the top of my lungs. get out! get out! you know. just -- just a reaction. i still remember it. i'm looking up. you can't believe this. what's going on before your eyes. he is coming down. i'm looking. he is up there in the cockpit. i can see this guy looking. looking down. you know, at the ground like -- he didn't particularly see me on the ground but a nice place for him to come in on a belly landing if he could. he didn't have that choice.

he goes -- he was alive. a lot of people surmised -- i am an eyewitness and i will stick to my guns. i heard people over the years that said he was killed instantly. no, that's not true. he was alive. yes. i watched him move. he died when he hit the jungle or was captured by the north vietnamese. i don't think they ever found his body. they found the plane. that was an incident that happened when i was up there also. frightening, shocking scenes, you know out of hollywood, you know. i watched a lot of world war ii films and stuff. that was always like -- since i didn't participate in world war ii or korea, that was like a movie to a kid, too. kamikaze planes. to see this.

but to see it live right in front of your eyes, i mean, man. that never leaves you. >> watched the movie before vietnam growing up? >> kid, yes. black and whites. yes. all those great movies and stuff. >> yeah. >> to this day i'm -- i'm a historian in the sense that i love documentaries. you know. i like -- i like watching anything real. i won't watch a fiction movie. you know. i like the documentaries, history channel, stuff like that. but -- yeah. but when it happens in front of your face, you take a snapshot of it in your brain. it is with you for life. you never forget it. yeah. >> you make your way over to the creek bed. >> yeah. >> yes. someone came by and said -- officer came over, guys came to the left. i was happy to see that. at this time now when i'm up there -- >> yeah. i didn't know at the time either.

at the time all i had seen guys killed and wounded and everything, i actually thought we were the last guys alive. me and -- buddies over in the jungle there on the other machine gun. i hear all this noise and firing and everything else. all i'm see sing dead guys, couple of medics and stuff. i figured we were taking real ass whipping and we are going down. captain comes by and passing out helmets. stay put. you are with so and so. i was happy with that. finally we had somebody there, thank god. friendship up here. anyhow, then someone came over to me and says join your company down there in the creek bed, a company. hell, i thought they wiped out, killed. well, when i got down in the creek bed, i saw captain nadal. i saw several of my other buddies. and -- i was very, very happy to see that. and -- >> what did they say to you? >> well, no, they are all busy, too.

they have been doing their thing, same -- same as i was. we are all preoccupied. loading up their guns and making sure they have more ammo. and that they are organized and -- staying -- staying focused. >> i'm wondering -- something that people -- i don't know if they know or not. what kind of conversations are going on? are you all not talking at all except do this, do this, do this? are you going -- oh, my god, no -- >> no. >> -- i can't believe we are in this. >> no, we are beyond that point. we are focused in -- listening for and leadership which we had with captain nadal. thank god someone is telling us what the hell is going on here. what was i involved with here? what the hell is going on? i don't know what's going on. other than we were under attack and somebody is trying to kill me and shot my buddies, you know. what are we up against? where are we? what are we doing? you know.

should we go here? right? left? what are we supposed to look for? other than the bad guy. anyhow. i felt very good, very happy in the creek bed. plus we had the shelter. i had the shelter for the first time. then in that creek bed. it is like -- i would say four feet deep, five feet at best. and four, four and a half feet deep.

maybe -- anywhere from four feet to six feet wide at different points. and this river from -- came from the mountain, snaked down. zigzagged. wasn't like a straight creek. zigzagged with curves and things. guys throwing hand grenades at the enemy and our guys were in there. throwing hand grenades back and forth to each other. one side to the other, one end to the other. they were down in it. i felt good about that because i thought man, this is nice. i have cover here and some friends, you know, new game. i feel good. this was going to be no better than what i saw. >> right. >> so -- >> we are down here. and -- i don't know. five minutes or one minute. next thing i know he is to my right and i'm -- guys to my left. and the rest of the guys down the creek bed. i don't know how many there were right then.

10, 20 guys, 30 guys. so -- he says he's yelling, all right. get ready. get ready, guys. let's go. six. machine gun. i'm still by myself, by the way. >> yeah. >> semiconductor or ammo bearer or anything. i have very little ammo, too. there is a story i want to interject here. so he's wrestling and said get yourself ready. let's go. we will make an assault. he tells the guys, he says six bayonets. six bayonets. these guys are putting bayonets to the ones that don't already have them on -- wham what am i going do? you know. i had a bayonet on me, digging holes and stuff. opening tin cans and stuff. can't put a bayonet on a machine gun but i want to at that time. that's how insecure i felt. god, bayonets. what's this about? i knew we were close.

he said we're going to make an assault. i said i'm happy where i'm at, you know. the safest i felt all day. let's go. up over the top. i'm four, five yards, no more, to left. we are going across the creek bed into the jungle. stuff is coming in. machine guns firing. gun ships above us are firing in on us. things are around us, friendly fire and everything else. fourth of july. we get out about 20 yards. guys are dropping. you know. and north vietnamese are dropping out of trees and stuff. they are firing down here. this guy is dropping out of trees. everybody is firing at their own targets, you know. guys are firing at the same target. you know, whatever you see. whatever you feel comfortable with. i have this machine gun. job of the machine gunner is to spray the area and keep their heads down so we can advance. i see i have like 30 rounds of ammo left on my belt. that's it. i went through everything else.

this is what i have on this first assault. i thought hell, you know, would pulls of a trigger and this is gone. so -- i -- on the initial -- i had already fired, you know, 50 rounds. i'm left with 30 rounds. i'm standing like it was -- with the captain about 20 yards out, i'm guessing. he looks over at me and screams and yells at me. god damn it, fire that machine gun, lay down fire! i thought -- he doesn't know i only have a couple of rounds of 20, 30 rounds of ammo here. he can't see it. i leave a little burst off to please him. i want to use the machine gun as a rifle in a round about sense. i want to see my target and try to pick them off one or two rounds. it doesn't work that way because you can't see them. they are bopping up and down and running around and hiding. they are at your feet and up in the trees. i didn't have enough ammo to do what he wanted. at that instant it was -- full-scale thing of fire, enemy

fire, and guys beside telling me to get killed. tony on the radio. has his m-16 down. on the radio. things are all mixed up. on the radio. and he is calling in supporters and talking to colonel moore. whatever he is doing. radio man is behind. just then, just as i look over here, radio operator gets shot. gets hit. goes back on his back. just like, you know, ton of rocks. right back. you know, i'm looking. wow. these other guys drop. and the only way tony knows, he is on the phone. when the guy fell, took the phone out of his hand. tony turns around and looks for and it he's not there. down there at his feet. that was that. tony said let's go. everybody grabbed a guy and drug them back down into the creek bed. them guys are laying there dead, dying. that's that deal.

probably five minutes later, ten minutes, i don't know what it is, he says all right, line up of. we are going to make another assault. somebody gives me a box of ammo. i am good to go now. i feel fairly good. we make another assault to go out there. everybody is doing their thing. we are dropping again and stuff. we get 20 yards out there. pull back. that type of thing. so i don't know how many assaults they make before i got there. and then the third one we tried to go left into the thick towards the mountain. i didn't know at the time but i think that was to three to find savage, ernie savage. i remember the trip very well. we didn't go any -- fare any better there either. go back 20, 30 yards and have to come back. that heavy. they were out there. fixed positions now. so -- it was -- it was -- bizarre. to say the least. i tell you. it was very hectic. you know. >> what are you feeling? what are these emotions happening?

are you just reacting, reacting, following orders? are you -- >> yes, yes. one good thing about us, we -- like i stated earlier, we were close-knit group. we didn't hesitate when the lieutenant said follow me. although when he passed us he looked white as a ghost. looked like the color drained out of him. he must have gotten orders from captain nadal. they pass them down. must have gotten orders, they said there is enemy. >> expand the perimeter. >> we followed him. what the hell. we followed him for two months prior to that. we followed him to ft. benning. that's what we are taught to do. tony says let's go. captain nadal. we went. we didn't hesitate. one guy hesitated. that's all. >> he hesitated. >> he pulled -- i could jump ahead with the story. i don't mind sharing this with you. it is important to me.

through the who whole two and a half, three days there in the battle, i assumed our ammo bearer was killed, shot and killed. or wounded. medevaced back to a safer place. we when we get back to the base camp two, three days later, get refitted and resupplied, we went back and asking -- we are standing out there for count in the morning, and you see all these spaces, you know, platoon went from 30 guys down to 20, you know, company went from this down to this. and -- all these small numbers, squads. where is so-and-so? well, he was shot. he was killed. yeah, i saw him get killed. russell, yeah, he got -- he died. i told people russell got killed. only came back. that's where i left him. i didn't know they got him to japan and saved his life and fixed him up. i told guys russell died. he got killed. i saw him. you know. we are sharing stories. i said where's john? our ammo bearer. he's down there in his t